Ren Allen

" Before my disbelieving eyes, Elise was actually
loving him out of being disobedient. She sang songs to him about
himself and told him stories in which he always turned out to be the
central character."

That was really sweet. I'm printing it and posting it where Markus and
I can read it daily!!! Beautiful.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

"Yes, I do all of that - some days I am frustrated by it and maybe it
is me that needs the time out."

I put myself in time out occasionally! In fact, I did so last night. I
was really, really cranky....just felt like snapping at anyone in my
path and was trying to re-gain a sense of calm by cleaning the
kitchen. The kids were asking me to make rice krispie treats and there
wasn't a single inch of counter space available.
I explained that NO, I could not think clearly at the moment and to
please give me some time to clean so I could respond better.
Sierra was kinda mad at me, so I cleaned up and sat at the computer
for five minutes.

She came in and asked about the rice krispie treats and I said "I'm in
time-out for a little while"
"I HATE time out" she proclaims. This made me laugh a bit, since she's
never been in time out, but she hates it when there's an idea brewing
and I have to hide for a minute. I apologized and told her to give me
five minutes.

I got centered, had a clean kitchen again and started the rice krispie
treats. We ended the evening eating our treats and watching America's
funniest home videos, laughing our butts off and trying to laugh
without being too loud for Markus, who was sleeping by now (it was
midnight).

Ok, now I'm blathering.....I just thought about my "time-out" story
since you mentioned it.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Nicole Willoughby

" Before my disbelieving eyes, Elise was actually
loving him out of being disobedient. She sang songs to him about
himself and told him stories in which he always turned out to be the
central character."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just curious, Where did that come from?

Nicole


---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

" Just curious, Where did that come from?"

In post #9780, Heidi printed an excerpt from a book she's reading
titled "French Impressions".

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

S Drag-teine

" Ok, now I'm blathering.....I just thought about my "time-out" story
since you mentioned it.:)"

Please blather away... I am always reading three books - one for pleasure,
one for enrichment and one on homeschooling, unschooling or parent issues.
This week it is Witch Storm, a reread of the Tao de Ching and starting How
To Talk So Your Kids Can Learn.

I am always looking for new perspectives and new tools to help guide my
children to become happy, healthy, well adjusted adults. Every once in a
while I have a bad day and it gives everyone a bad day - it is nice to hear
that there are others that have bad days. I feel guilty about bad days - my
logic says everyone has bad days but my emotional side says yes, but what
have you modeled for your children?

Currently, I am working (and have been for months) on my yelling. I hate
yelling but when I get frustrated I yell so I am working towards not doing
that. I think when I beginning to get frustrated I am going to stop
everything and hug and kiss the kids instead.

Shannon

~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~


I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] You have to read this

"Yes, I do all of that - some days I am frustrated by it and maybe it
is me that needs the time out."

I put myself in time out occasionally! In fact, I did so last night. I
was really, really cranky....just felt like snapping at anyone in my
path and was trying to re-gain a sense of calm by cleaning the
kitchen. The kids were asking me to make rice krispie treats and there
wasn't a single inch of counter space available.
I explained that NO, I could not think clearly at the moment and to
please give me some time to clean so I could respond better.
Sierra was kinda mad at me, so I cleaned up and sat at the computer
for five minutes.

She came in and asked about the rice krispie treats and I said "I'm in
time-out for a little while"
"I HATE time out" she proclaims. This made me laugh a bit, since she's
never been in time out, but she hates it when there's an idea brewing
and I have to hide for a minute. I apologized and told her to give me
five minutes.

I got centered, had a clean kitchen again and started the rice krispie
treats. We ended the evening eating our treats and watching America's
funniest home videos, laughing our butts off and trying to laugh
without being too loud for Markus, who was sleeping by now (it was
midnight).

Ok, now I'm blathering.....I just thought about my "time-out" story
since you mentioned it.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






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Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 5, 2006, at 11:02 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:

> starting How
> To Talk So Your Kids Can Learn.

I'm a big fan of the authors, but didn't like this book as much as
two others - "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kid will
Talk" is the very best. "Siblings Without Rivalry" is also very very
good. The "learning" book seemed weak and like they'd not really
figured out very well how to apply their own principles to learning.

So - just mentioning that in case you haven't read the other two -
those are way better.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/5/2006 2:12:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dragteine@... writes:

Currently, I am working (and have been for months) on my yelling. I hate
yelling but when I get frustrated I yell so I am working towards not doing
that. I think when I beginning to get frustrated I am going to stop
everything and hug and kiss the kids instead.



***********

Humor is a good transition out of anger. My kids like all things silly.
Last time I yelled, once I caught myself, I started saying "Mommy is a crazy
person" and parodied myself being upset and out of control. They liked that a
lot <g>.

A good follow-up is "mommy yells when she gets mad, what do you do?".
Everybody puts on a good show and has some fun. I think it helps to not take it
all so seriously, and to understand that everyone has intense feelings.

Have fun, Shannon!

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa H

<<Pam Wrote:
I'm a big fan of the authors, but didn't like this book as much as
two others - "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kid will
Talk" is the very best. "Siblings Without Rivalry" is also very very
good. The "learning" book seemed weak and like they'd not really
figured out very well how to apply their own principles to learning.

So - just mentioning that in case you haven't read the other two -
those are way better.>>

I am going to have to go back to look at these two books again. I had problems with them when i read them years ago. I found them to be a bit manipulative and even condescending. Though I suppose for some it may be a good starting place for better communication skills. I recall thinking the suggestions to be motivated by coercion rather than real empathy or compassion - the goal being to control and manipulate your child.

Lisa.







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 6, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Lisa H wrote:

> I am going to have to go back to look at these two books again. I
> had problems with them when i read them years ago. I found them to
> be a bit manipulative and even condescending. Though I suppose for
> some it may be a good starting place for better communication
> skills. I recall thinking the suggestions to be motivated by
> coercion rather than real empathy or compassion - the goal being to
> control and manipulate your child.

Lisa - I sort of agree. They are motivated by the parent wanting to
know how to get kids to do what they want them to do. I think that is
true.

So - yeah - take them with a grain of salt.

Still - they are great examples of ways to communicate without
nagging and yelling and commanding, etc.

There are cartoons and scripts - I got a LOT out of them when my kids
were little and it made a HUGE difference in how my husband spoke to
the kids. I'll never forget how it bugged him so MUCH that Roya would
leave wet towels on the furniture - he used to lecture and get mad
and beg and demand - always caused hard feelings. Then he read about
the "Say it in a word" idea --- and one night Roya tossed her wet
towel on the back of the couch and was walking away and Cyrus just
said, "Towel." Quietly. Calmly. Roya turned around and grabbed her
towel and took it with her. Happily.

-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa H

<<From: Pamela Sorooshian
Still - they are great examples of ways to communicate without nagging and yelling and commanding, etc.>>

So if you want to learn to 'control' your kids wo nagging yelling and commanding - there is a workbook format for the authors' works to help increase your power skills <g>. I know several local folks who have used it. And there are folks who lead workshops in these techniques. btw - leading workshops could be a source of addtional income for some sahm as the books are so popular.

<<Then he read about the "Say it in a word" idea --- and one night Roya tossed her wet towel on the back of the couch and was walking away and Cyrus just said, "Towel." Quietly. Calmly. Roya turned around and grabbed her towel and took it with her. Happily.>>

I like this image. When my dh makes a shift and is less bullying in communicating his need, he too is met with supportive humor and joy that he is growing. It's nice when our kids can have compassion for adults learning to shift behaviour.


Lisa.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 7, 2006, at 12:02 AM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

> Lisa - I sort of agree. They are motivated by the parent wanting to
> know how to get kids to do what they want them to do.

I agree too. But when coming from more traditional ways of treating
children, it's a turn in the right direction. I think it's very
helpful in getting parents to see that children do things -- or
refuse to do things -- for very legitimate-to-them reasons. And if
you're approaching them as though they're being unreasonable, as it
is with most traditional parenting, it's just going to backfire. It
turns into a battle of wills. Their books approach interacting with
children by parents understand their kids' points of view. At least
that 's what I got out of it.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 7, 2006, at 5:50 AM, Lisa H wrote:

> So if you want to learn to 'control' your kids wo nagging yelling
> and commanding - there is a workbook format for the authors' works
> to help increase your power skills <g>.

Lisa - I kind of think that's an overstatement, though. For example,
there is help on how to respond when something goes really wrong for
your child and you can't fix it, at least immediately. We're in the
car, driving across Arizona, a hundred miles from the next rest stop,
the kid wants to stop NOW and get ice cream. These books would have
some ideas for ways to respond to that which would not escalate the
bad feelings, but help the kid get through the next hour and a half
while waiting. Beats the heck out of a parent feeling helpless and
maybe even getting frustrated and angry that the child doesn't
understand the constraints.

I'm most definitely not saying these books, in and of themselves, are
perfect. To me, the authors missed the underlying principles of many
of their OWN ideas - they don't have a unifying basis and so the
impression is just that these are "techniques" that "work." THAT I
don't like.

But - for someone who has (or is developing) a truly respectful
parenting approach, these books are really great at helping provide
ideas for words to use. My husband was at a complete loss - he
couldn't understand why a kid would toss wet towels on the furniture
after she'd been very nicely asked to not do that (I should mention
that we have a pool and the kids have to walk through the living room
to get to the bathroom or their bedrooms AND we do get mold and wet
stuff doesn't dry quickly when piled up). SHE had good intentions -
but she was and is VERY much in a hurry and very often doesn't take
the few seconds it takes to stop and think about what she's doing. I
kept telling him that he didn't need to get irritated with her, just
remind her nicely. But HE thought she shouldn't need reminding and
that she was doing it on purpose and so on. "I" could just say, "Hey,
honey, take your towel with you," and her internal response
(conscious or not) would be, "Oh - yeah - my towel, thanks for
reminding me." But he'd say things like, "How many times do I have to
remind you to take your towel." Or, "You forgot your towel again."

Again - nothing wrong with a reminder - but HOW to do it matters a
lot. He'd hurt her feelings over and over by the tone and by the
words he chose. I showed him the little section of the "How to Talk"
book about "Use a Word" and that was a really big eye-opener to him.
Not just that she'd "do what he wanted." That was the LEAST important
part - it was that he realized that she truly wasn't purposely
ignoring him, that she wanted to be helpful, that she was fine with
taking her towel, and so on. Changed the way he thought of her ---
that's a lot different than saying he just found a technique that
worked to let him control her.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

S Drag-teine

Yeah, someone else gave it to me and after getting into it a little bit I
really want "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kid will Talk"
and I am have already added "Siblings Without Rivalry" to my reading list.

Shannon

~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~


I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela Sorooshian
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 2:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] You have to read this


On Feb 5, 2006, at 11:02 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:

> starting How
> To Talk So Your Kids Can Learn.

I'm a big fan of the authors, but didn't like this book as much as
two others - "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kid will
Talk" is the very best. "Siblings Without Rivalry" is also very very
good. The "learning" book seemed weak and like they'd not really
figured out very well how to apply their own principles to learning.

So - just mentioning that in case you haven't read the other two -
those are way better.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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