Bedtimes
Ren
" I
don't view setting these kinds of boundaries as being restrictive."
YOU don't...but she apparently does. You said that she is balking. If a child is balking, and the partent is not willing to alter their own behavior when the child is obviously not happy with the status quo...then it's control, pure and simple.
You can convince yourself it's "healthy" or for the best, but the truth is, she probably won't mature in her own way and time, if she is being controlled.
When faced with an issue such as this, it's best to look at the relationship first and foremost. If she's balking, there is damage being done by your forcing an arbitrary bedtime.
If her feelings are foremost, then it's time to come up with some other solutions.
She's 13. She will be legal adult age in five SHORT years. Just when do you let her decide what is best for her own body?
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
don't view setting these kinds of boundaries as being restrictive."
YOU don't...but she apparently does. You said that she is balking. If a child is balking, and the partent is not willing to alter their own behavior when the child is obviously not happy with the status quo...then it's control, pure and simple.
You can convince yourself it's "healthy" or for the best, but the truth is, she probably won't mature in her own way and time, if she is being controlled.
When faced with an issue such as this, it's best to look at the relationship first and foremost. If she's balking, there is damage being done by your forcing an arbitrary bedtime.
If her feelings are foremost, then it's time to come up with some other solutions.
She's 13. She will be legal adult age in five SHORT years. Just when do you let her decide what is best for her own body?
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
[email protected]
>>Part of the reason I ask is that we occasionally watch television and moviesthat I prefer the children not be exposed to yet if at all. My rule is that
Quentin (age 5) must be in his room usually watching a movie before we watch
these shows.>>
Are you sending him to his room against his will? Would he rather be hanging out with you? Or are you just seeing that he's happily engaged in another room while you watch your shows? We did much the same thing when the kids were little. Right now we have cable with a DVR to record our favorites. So we can watch whenever plus start and stop when we need to. I love it.
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
We gave up bedtimes when we gave up school ! Oh what an unexpected ,
wonderful, surprise that has been! Ok, so it wasn't THAT quick or that easy, but
we all seem to know now when we are ready and we just go. I do wait on my
kids to conk out 1st. mine are 12 and 8. My dh on the other hand, his
favorite words on the weekends (of all times) is , "time to get ready for bed".
The one night he can stay up and just enjoy the night with us he thinks we all
need to go to bed! (my big pet peeve at the moment!).
Anyway, that's what we do.
Syndi and sons
"Education is an admirable thing,
but it is well to remember from time to time
that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
Oscar Wilde
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wonderful, surprise that has been! Ok, so it wasn't THAT quick or that easy, but
we all seem to know now when we are ready and we just go. I do wait on my
kids to conk out 1st. mine are 12 and 8. My dh on the other hand, his
favorite words on the weekends (of all times) is , "time to get ready for bed".
The one night he can stay up and just enjoy the night with us he thinks we all
need to go to bed! (my big pet peeve at the moment!).
Anyway, that's what we do.
Syndi and sons
"Education is an admirable thing,
but it is well to remember from time to time
that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
Oscar Wilde
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/17/2006 9:22:48 PM Central Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
to live alone. He is 6 and would rather spend the day alone in his sisters
room (where the extra tv is) than out with us. Thats his space he comes out
here and says mom its just to crazy out here....
Chrissy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> Would he rather be hanging out with you?This made me chuckle cause I just today told my mom I think Jacob would like
to live alone. He is 6 and would rather spend the day alone in his sisters
room (where the extra tv is) than out with us. Thats his space he comes out
here and says mom its just to crazy out here....
Chrissy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
We kind of gave up on a rigid bedtime, but when everyone starts to
get cranky, it's a sure sign that it's time to move to our personal
spaces and chill there for the night. Plus with the little ones still
we really need some quiet time for them to settle down. eg, it's ten
pm, our 2yo fell asleep while everyone was watching a movie, after
the movie was over I just said I thought it was a good time for
everyone to settle down. So pretty much everyone descended to the
basement, Josh is reading (again) and Bre is drawing at her desk.
Emily is doing a sudoku before she settles down, and Sam and Rachel
were asleep before I finished reading their stories. And that's where
I'm heading, to try and get a few zzzz's before Avari decides she's
up for the night (she's hit a growth spurt and nurses pretty much
nonstop)
The little ones are better about admitting that they're tired and
going to sleep. I think Josh and Bre fight it because we had so many
years of going to bed 'when I say so!'
Melissa
get cranky, it's a sure sign that it's time to move to our personal
spaces and chill there for the night. Plus with the little ones still
we really need some quiet time for them to settle down. eg, it's ten
pm, our 2yo fell asleep while everyone was watching a movie, after
the movie was over I just said I thought it was a good time for
everyone to settle down. So pretty much everyone descended to the
basement, Josh is reading (again) and Bre is drawing at her desk.
Emily is doing a sudoku before she settles down, and Sam and Rachel
were asleep before I finished reading their stories. And that's where
I'm heading, to try and get a few zzzz's before Avari decides she's
up for the night (she's hit a growth spurt and nurses pretty much
nonstop)
The little ones are better about admitting that they're tired and
going to sleep. I think Josh and Bre fight it because we had so many
years of going to bed 'when I say so!'
Melissa
On Jan 17, 2006, at 9:37 PM, Onesnotenough@... wrote:
> We gave up bedtimes when we gave up school !
Ren Allen
"but when everyone starts to
get cranky, it's a sure sign that it's time to move to our personal
spaces and chill there for the night. "
That's just part of being a parent.:) We don't have a set bedtime,
but when Markus needs to sleep, the house needs to get quiet and dark
very quickly.
We can be in another room, watching tv or doing quiet things, but my
two younger ones like to sleep in our room so we usually start a quiet
down time when we know Markus is coming up.
The older boys keep doing whatever they want (they're pretty quiet
guys anyway) until the wee hours of the morning. Jared usually conks
out around midnight, Trevor is currently staying up all night and
sleeping all day.
There's reality of tiredness, and it's our job to help kids
transition...especially when they're little. That doesn't equal some
arbitrary time when nobody is tired though...that's what you'll hear
us urge people away from.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
get cranky, it's a sure sign that it's time to move to our personal
spaces and chill there for the night. "
That's just part of being a parent.:) We don't have a set bedtime,
but when Markus needs to sleep, the house needs to get quiet and dark
very quickly.
We can be in another room, watching tv or doing quiet things, but my
two younger ones like to sleep in our room so we usually start a quiet
down time when we know Markus is coming up.
The older boys keep doing whatever they want (they're pretty quiet
guys anyway) until the wee hours of the morning. Jared usually conks
out around midnight, Trevor is currently staying up all night and
sleeping all day.
There's reality of tiredness, and it's our job to help kids
transition...especially when they're little. That doesn't equal some
arbitrary time when nobody is tired though...that's what you'll hear
us urge people away from.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
S Drag-teine
It is kind of his father's idea that he "get ready for bed" which means him
brushing his teeth and getting dressed for bed and pick a movie to watch in
his room. He usually plays or lays in bed while he watches his movie.
On nights that the shows are light like Gilmore Girls he can stay up but
usually opts to go watch what he wants... other nights when like ER is on he
is encouraged to stay in his room.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of zenmomma@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
that I prefer the children not be exposed to yet if at all. My rule is that
Quentin (age 5) must be in his room usually watching a movie before we watch
these shows.>>
Are you sending him to his room against his will? Would he rather be hanging
out with you? Or are you just seeing that he's happily engaged in another
room while you watch your shows? We did much the same thing when the kids
were little. Right now we have cable with a DVR to record our favorites. So
we can watch whenever plus start and stop when we need to. I love it.
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be
in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going
to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting
right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
brushing his teeth and getting dressed for bed and pick a movie to watch in
his room. He usually plays or lays in bed while he watches his movie.
On nights that the shows are light like Gilmore Girls he can stay up but
usually opts to go watch what he wants... other nights when like ER is on he
is encouraged to stay in his room.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of zenmomma@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
>>Part of the reason I ask is that we occasionally watch television andmovies
that I prefer the children not be exposed to yet if at all. My rule is that
Quentin (age 5) must be in his room usually watching a movie before we watch
these shows.>>
Are you sending him to his room against his will? Would he rather be hanging
out with you? Or are you just seeing that he's happily engaged in another
room while you watch your shows? We did much the same thing when the kids
were little. Right now we have cable with a DVR to record our favorites. So
we can watch whenever plus start and stop when we need to. I love it.
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be
in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going
to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting
right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Melissa
I just got this in another email, and wanted to share in regards to
'dragging' our night owls out of bed.
quote:
My son had just popped on the TV to watch the Price is Right (one of his
favourite shows, can you tell he's an Aspie?) and we happened to just
catch
Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family. His message today:
"How the first 5 minutes of the day go between a mother and her children
sets the tone for the day. If it's a snarl or yelling, that sours the
day.
If it's between the husband and the wife, the first 5 minutes of when he
returns home determines how things go for him and his wife. Or as Dr.
Dobson
said, it's all in the greeting or more importantly, LACK of greeting.
If he
complains "not tuna casserole AGAIN" then it sets the tone for the
entire
evening.
However, on the bright side, every time there's a separation between
people,
we have a fresh new 5 minute window to "re-set" the mood and forgive
each
other."
So let's greet our children with love in the morning, our husbands
with a
smile and a hug and all that we meet with a friendly, warm smile and
sincerely ask them how they are and take a minute to truly listen to
that
person. As one of my favourite sayings goes - it is not what we said to
someone that they will remember, it is not what we did to someone
that they
will remember but they WILL remember how we made them feel!
'dragging' our night owls out of bed.
quote:
My son had just popped on the TV to watch the Price is Right (one of his
favourite shows, can you tell he's an Aspie?) and we happened to just
catch
Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family. His message today:
"How the first 5 minutes of the day go between a mother and her children
sets the tone for the day. If it's a snarl or yelling, that sours the
day.
If it's between the husband and the wife, the first 5 minutes of when he
returns home determines how things go for him and his wife. Or as Dr.
Dobson
said, it's all in the greeting or more importantly, LACK of greeting.
If he
complains "not tuna casserole AGAIN" then it sets the tone for the
entire
evening.
However, on the bright side, every time there's a separation between
people,
we have a fresh new 5 minute window to "re-set" the mood and forgive
each
other."
So let's greet our children with love in the morning, our husbands
with a
smile and a hug and all that we meet with a friendly, warm smile and
sincerely ask them how they are and take a minute to truly listen to
that
person. As one of my favourite sayings goes - it is not what we said to
someone that they will remember, it is not what we did to someone
that they
will remember but they WILL remember how we made them feel!
S Drag-teine
Yes, I understand - we get done dinner and my dh is asking when do you want
to put "the boy" to bed? Sometimes I give into my husband and others my son
but often I give Quentin a choice - bath or bed. Sometimes he chooses bath
and others bed depending on what movie we just got from Netflix.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Onesnotenough@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
We gave up bedtimes when we gave up school ! Oh what an unexpected ,
wonderful, surprise that has been! Ok, so it wasn't THAT quick or that
easy, but
we all seem to know now when we are ready and we just go. I do wait on
my
kids to conk out 1st. mine are 12 and 8. My dh on the other hand, his
favorite words on the weekends (of all times) is , "time to get ready for
bed".
The one night he can stay up and just enjoy the night with us he thinks we
all
need to go to bed! (my big pet peeve at the moment!).
Anyway, that's what we do.
Syndi and sons
"Education is an admirable thing,
but it is well to remember from time to time
that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
Oscar Wilde
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
to put "the boy" to bed? Sometimes I give into my husband and others my son
but often I give Quentin a choice - bath or bed. Sometimes he chooses bath
and others bed depending on what movie we just got from Netflix.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Onesnotenough@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
We gave up bedtimes when we gave up school ! Oh what an unexpected ,
wonderful, surprise that has been! Ok, so it wasn't THAT quick or that
easy, but
we all seem to know now when we are ready and we just go. I do wait on
my
kids to conk out 1st. mine are 12 and 8. My dh on the other hand, his
favorite words on the weekends (of all times) is , "time to get ready for
bed".
The one night he can stay up and just enjoy the night with us he thinks we
all
need to go to bed! (my big pet peeve at the moment!).
Anyway, that's what we do.
Syndi and sons
"Education is an admirable thing,
but it is well to remember from time to time
that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
Oscar Wilde
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
S Drag-teine
Wow Robyn! You are an amazing person - I don't know that I could handle
that. Well, it isn't all that bad but even when Quentin goes to his bedroom
to watch a movie - he often watches two sometimes three and still will not
fall asleep until dh decides to go to bed and goes a lays with him and often
falls asleep himself to wake up stumble to bed so that he can wake to him
alarm clock.
Quentin wakes up some where between 10 to 1 so he sleeps somewhere between 9
and 11 hours a day.
On in interesting note... I have a friend who still lives a split schedule
he sleeps four hour twice a day. He says he lives two days for and average
person's one day.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robyn Coburn
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
<<<<< My son is five and I really like the unschooling this moment topic
because it makes me realize that everyone is doing what I am doing in their
own way.
What does everyone do as far as sleep schedules?
Part of the reason I ask is that we occasionally watch television and movies
that I prefer the children not be exposed to yet if at all. My rule is that
Quentin (age 5) must be in his room usually watching a movie before we watch
these shows. >>>>>
You already had someone mention the idea of recording your shows - we have a
satellite and it has been a great thing for freeing us from the temporal
tyranny of scheduling. We all get to record our shows.
We have never had the mindset that we wanted to send Jayn away from us. Nor
have we had a house that would accommodate such a desire even if we had one!
For a long time dh and I used to get our alone time in the mornings before
Jayn awoke, rather than the traditional in the evening. Now we seem to be on
different schedules most of the time. It is sometimes a strain between dh
and I, to have less time to talk without interruption. We get around it part
of the time by phoning, and by taking the opportunity when Jayn, now 6, is
busy with her own concerns. Mostly we just try to maintain the awareness
that this time is temporary - the tv shows will come again, or end up on
dvd.
Not as a recommendation but just as a demonstration of what Unschooling can
encompass, here is the ongoing saga of our unusual rotating sleep schedule:
<<< Jayn lives on a 26-28 hour day. She sleeps for close to 10 hours and
then stays awake for 16 - 18. Since the world is rotating once every 24
hours, this means we (she and I) are on a permanent slow march around the
clock. Sometimes she divides her sleep into two 5 hour sessions on a
completely unpredictable basis. In our household we are generally over the
course of a month or 5 weeks spending about a third of that time on a "night
shift" when Jayn gets up in the early evening and goes to be after the sun
has risen. Another part of the time she is getting up in the middle of the
night and going to bed in the mid afternoon - this is usually when she will
take a nap and somehow flip around to being on either nights or days.
She has never had a set bedtime, and when a toddler simply went to sleep
with us. Dh and I were fortunate in that he was at home after a knee
replacement for the vast majority of her young life, so he and I were able
to have our adult together time in the morning. Recently he has returned to
work in the film business, on a varying schedule, so one of the limiting
factors in how I am able to cope with the pushing through to nights is the
need to avoid disturbing his rest. In the past, Jayn has been able to be
awake for a couple of extra hours in the bedroom watching tv and asking
periodically for a snack, while I snoozed. Now that dynamic occurs with me
on the increasingly uncomfortable (as we both age) sofa. [Or I bring a snack
bag, similar to our park day food bag, into the bedroom so I don't have to
get up.]
Jayn is not comfortable being alone and lonely during the nights, so I stay
with her. These quiet, intense times have been the scene of some of our most
enriched imaginative games and discussions. They can be wonderful nights. It
is only when she does her sudden flips that I have a serious tiredness
problem. When she moves into it gradually, I am able to just follow her,
still usually getting up an hour or so sooner than she awakens. I keep
myself alert by typing on the computer sometimes, when she is engaged with
her dolls. Sometimes she watches DVD's, and there are times when I watch
some other DVD's on my computer or the portable player at the same time.
Being up all night has some restrictions that are not manifest during the
day. The first is obviously the need for quiet. Luckily our apartments have
wonderfully thick walls, and have all been soundproofed by the Los Angeles
Airport Authority. I have to help Jayn avoid jumping games, as we are on the
second floor. She gets her activity by doing sofa jumping, cycling on the
exercise bike, and after the sun comes up.
The other restriction is the limited social contact she has during that 10
[now more like 6 days] day(night) period. We struggle to get to her just
reconvened dance class (1pm on Tuesdays) and the park playdate following.
Sometimes she is literally getting out of bed to rush to class, at other
times, about to go to bed as soon as we get home....
....It is a fine balance between going places at a certain time and how long
the drive home then is - sometimes a nap during that drive is utterly
disastrous. It only takes 15 minutes of sleeping for Jayn to be refreshed
enough for seven more energetic hours, regardless of when she awoke that
"morning".
Awakening her when she doesn't wish to get up is futile. She has chosen to
miss birthday parties and sleep instead. Trying to manipulate her into
sleeping - even with nursing, darkened rooms, quiet time, warm baths, valium
(JUST KIDDING!) any kind of trick at all - is equally pointless. She has
kept on playing and chatting happily for hours after I would have expected
collapse.
The only time that we ever have any kind of emotional conflict or issues
between us over sleeping, is when I am not being acceptant of Jayn's
schedule. It is true that I am sometimes tired. However I have to choose to
not be resentful or fight her process, or I am tired *and* grumpy. I adapt
my other activities - cleaning, laundry, shopping, errands - around her.
Thank goodness for 24 hour markets!
Dh makes time to play with Jayn when he gets home from work [and lots of
other times too!]. Again the only times when there are conflicts between us,
are when he loses his sense of acceptance about the sleep schedule - if he
is feeling lonely or left out. Most of the time he is a miracle of
acceptance.
I have the expectation that this is temporary. I have been sometimes
reassured by other Unschoolers that this will likely pass. Eventually Jayn
may need fewer sleep hours so her days will regulate back to being 24 hours
long. Also she will gradually become more self sufficient and less needy of
company or assistance, so in time I will be free to follow my own preference
of sleeping, which is to go to bed between midnight and 2am and rise around
10-10.30am. (Theater hours) For all I know she will become the same morning
person my dh is. Or she may be a night owl, which is what I suspect.
I occasionally talk to her about what she is missing by being awake at night
instead of during the day. She often talks about activities she wants to be
part of - such as ice skating or gymnastics. I will have to make sure that
these classes are not early in the morning. Our ability to get to something
regularly scheduled before 11am would often be pretty impaired by both my
tiredness and her schedule.>>>>>
I let Jayn know that I am tired and thinking about bed by saying that I
"don't have much left in me - about 10 minutes." It helps to alert her to
the upcoming transition.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/232 - Release Date: 1/17/2006
Yahoo! Groups Links
that. Well, it isn't all that bad but even when Quentin goes to his bedroom
to watch a movie - he often watches two sometimes three and still will not
fall asleep until dh decides to go to bed and goes a lays with him and often
falls asleep himself to wake up stumble to bed so that he can wake to him
alarm clock.
Quentin wakes up some where between 10 to 1 so he sleeps somewhere between 9
and 11 hours a day.
On in interesting note... I have a friend who still lives a split schedule
he sleeps four hour twice a day. He says he lives two days for and average
person's one day.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robyn Coburn
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
<<<<< My son is five and I really like the unschooling this moment topic
because it makes me realize that everyone is doing what I am doing in their
own way.
What does everyone do as far as sleep schedules?
Part of the reason I ask is that we occasionally watch television and movies
that I prefer the children not be exposed to yet if at all. My rule is that
Quentin (age 5) must be in his room usually watching a movie before we watch
these shows. >>>>>
You already had someone mention the idea of recording your shows - we have a
satellite and it has been a great thing for freeing us from the temporal
tyranny of scheduling. We all get to record our shows.
We have never had the mindset that we wanted to send Jayn away from us. Nor
have we had a house that would accommodate such a desire even if we had one!
For a long time dh and I used to get our alone time in the mornings before
Jayn awoke, rather than the traditional in the evening. Now we seem to be on
different schedules most of the time. It is sometimes a strain between dh
and I, to have less time to talk without interruption. We get around it part
of the time by phoning, and by taking the opportunity when Jayn, now 6, is
busy with her own concerns. Mostly we just try to maintain the awareness
that this time is temporary - the tv shows will come again, or end up on
dvd.
Not as a recommendation but just as a demonstration of what Unschooling can
encompass, here is the ongoing saga of our unusual rotating sleep schedule:
<<< Jayn lives on a 26-28 hour day. She sleeps for close to 10 hours and
then stays awake for 16 - 18. Since the world is rotating once every 24
hours, this means we (she and I) are on a permanent slow march around the
clock. Sometimes she divides her sleep into two 5 hour sessions on a
completely unpredictable basis. In our household we are generally over the
course of a month or 5 weeks spending about a third of that time on a "night
shift" when Jayn gets up in the early evening and goes to be after the sun
has risen. Another part of the time she is getting up in the middle of the
night and going to bed in the mid afternoon - this is usually when she will
take a nap and somehow flip around to being on either nights or days.
She has never had a set bedtime, and when a toddler simply went to sleep
with us. Dh and I were fortunate in that he was at home after a knee
replacement for the vast majority of her young life, so he and I were able
to have our adult together time in the morning. Recently he has returned to
work in the film business, on a varying schedule, so one of the limiting
factors in how I am able to cope with the pushing through to nights is the
need to avoid disturbing his rest. In the past, Jayn has been able to be
awake for a couple of extra hours in the bedroom watching tv and asking
periodically for a snack, while I snoozed. Now that dynamic occurs with me
on the increasingly uncomfortable (as we both age) sofa. [Or I bring a snack
bag, similar to our park day food bag, into the bedroom so I don't have to
get up.]
Jayn is not comfortable being alone and lonely during the nights, so I stay
with her. These quiet, intense times have been the scene of some of our most
enriched imaginative games and discussions. They can be wonderful nights. It
is only when she does her sudden flips that I have a serious tiredness
problem. When she moves into it gradually, I am able to just follow her,
still usually getting up an hour or so sooner than she awakens. I keep
myself alert by typing on the computer sometimes, when she is engaged with
her dolls. Sometimes she watches DVD's, and there are times when I watch
some other DVD's on my computer or the portable player at the same time.
Being up all night has some restrictions that are not manifest during the
day. The first is obviously the need for quiet. Luckily our apartments have
wonderfully thick walls, and have all been soundproofed by the Los Angeles
Airport Authority. I have to help Jayn avoid jumping games, as we are on the
second floor. She gets her activity by doing sofa jumping, cycling on the
exercise bike, and after the sun comes up.
The other restriction is the limited social contact she has during that 10
[now more like 6 days] day(night) period. We struggle to get to her just
reconvened dance class (1pm on Tuesdays) and the park playdate following.
Sometimes she is literally getting out of bed to rush to class, at other
times, about to go to bed as soon as we get home....
....It is a fine balance between going places at a certain time and how long
the drive home then is - sometimes a nap during that drive is utterly
disastrous. It only takes 15 minutes of sleeping for Jayn to be refreshed
enough for seven more energetic hours, regardless of when she awoke that
"morning".
Awakening her when she doesn't wish to get up is futile. She has chosen to
miss birthday parties and sleep instead. Trying to manipulate her into
sleeping - even with nursing, darkened rooms, quiet time, warm baths, valium
(JUST KIDDING!) any kind of trick at all - is equally pointless. She has
kept on playing and chatting happily for hours after I would have expected
collapse.
The only time that we ever have any kind of emotional conflict or issues
between us over sleeping, is when I am not being acceptant of Jayn's
schedule. It is true that I am sometimes tired. However I have to choose to
not be resentful or fight her process, or I am tired *and* grumpy. I adapt
my other activities - cleaning, laundry, shopping, errands - around her.
Thank goodness for 24 hour markets!
Dh makes time to play with Jayn when he gets home from work [and lots of
other times too!]. Again the only times when there are conflicts between us,
are when he loses his sense of acceptance about the sleep schedule - if he
is feeling lonely or left out. Most of the time he is a miracle of
acceptance.
I have the expectation that this is temporary. I have been sometimes
reassured by other Unschoolers that this will likely pass. Eventually Jayn
may need fewer sleep hours so her days will regulate back to being 24 hours
long. Also she will gradually become more self sufficient and less needy of
company or assistance, so in time I will be free to follow my own preference
of sleeping, which is to go to bed between midnight and 2am and rise around
10-10.30am. (Theater hours) For all I know she will become the same morning
person my dh is. Or she may be a night owl, which is what I suspect.
I occasionally talk to her about what she is missing by being awake at night
instead of during the day. She often talks about activities she wants to be
part of - such as ice skating or gymnastics. I will have to make sure that
these classes are not early in the morning. Our ability to get to something
regularly scheduled before 11am would often be pretty impaired by both my
tiredness and her schedule.>>>>>
I let Jayn know that I am tired and thinking about bed by saying that I
"don't have much left in me - about 10 minutes." It helps to alert her to
the upcoming transition.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/232 - Release Date: 1/17/2006
Yahoo! Groups Links
Deb Lewis
***we happened to just catch Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family.***
Dobson is not a good resource to bring to an unschooling list. He's not
even a nice person to quote.
He advocates spanking, yielding to authority, and refers to the parent
child relationship as a battle.
Living joyfully with children is advocated by unschoolers every single
day on a multitude of e-mail lists and at the forum. And the kind of
joyful living advocated by unschoolers is genuine, it's not used as a
trick to get through a tough morning so that sometime later in the day if
the parent decides to spank or overpower or battle with her kid she can
tell herself it's ok because at least she was loving with him when he
woke up that morning.
People don't have to separate for five minutes for a grown up mom to stop
being mean *in a moment* and start being nicer.
If you'd like to read about living joyfully with children here are a few
places to start:
Joyce Fetteroll's site: http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Sandra Dodd's site: www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
The Natural Child Project: http://www.naturalchild.com/
Rue Kream's book: "Parenting a Free Child, And Unschooled Life"
Valerie Fitzenreiter's book, "The Unprocessed Child, Living Without
School"
Sandra Dodd's book: Moving a Puddle and Other Essays
Deb Lewis
Dobson is not a good resource to bring to an unschooling list. He's not
even a nice person to quote.
He advocates spanking, yielding to authority, and refers to the parent
child relationship as a battle.
Living joyfully with children is advocated by unschoolers every single
day on a multitude of e-mail lists and at the forum. And the kind of
joyful living advocated by unschoolers is genuine, it's not used as a
trick to get through a tough morning so that sometime later in the day if
the parent decides to spank or overpower or battle with her kid she can
tell herself it's ok because at least she was loving with him when he
woke up that morning.
People don't have to separate for five minutes for a grown up mom to stop
being mean *in a moment* and start being nicer.
If you'd like to read about living joyfully with children here are a few
places to start:
Joyce Fetteroll's site: http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Sandra Dodd's site: www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
The Natural Child Project: http://www.naturalchild.com/
Rue Kream's book: "Parenting a Free Child, And Unschooled Life"
Valerie Fitzenreiter's book, "The Unprocessed Child, Living Without
School"
Sandra Dodd's book: Moving a Puddle and Other Essays
Deb Lewis
Melissa
I'm sorry you were offended. I felt that since this was a beginner
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
Melissa
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
Melissa
On Jan 18, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Deb Lewis wrote:
>
> Dobson is not a good resource to bring to an unschooling list.
> He's not
> even a nice person to quote.
> He advocates spanking, yielding to authority, and refers to the parent
> child relationship as a battle.
>
> Living joyfully with children is advocated by unschoolers every single
> day on a multitude of e-mail lists and at the forum. And the kind of
> joyful living advocated by unschoolers is genuine, it's not used as a
> trick to get through a tough morning so that sometime later in the
> day if
> the parent decides to spank or overpower or battle with her kid she
> can
> tell herself it's ok because at least she was loving with him when he
> woke up that morning.
>
> People don't have to separate for five minutes for a grown up mom
> to stop
> being mean *in a moment* and start being nicer.
Deb Lewis
***I'm sorry you were offended. ***
I was not offended by you or your post. I've read Dobson before. *HE's*
offensive. <g>
There are a lot of nicer people out there with ideas for making family
life better. Someone who says "be loving" (in this fairly innocuous
blurb) and elsewhere, "spank them till they cry" lacks credibility in
the "loving" department, that's all. <g>
Deb Lewis
I was not offended by you or your post. I've read Dobson before. *HE's*
offensive. <g>
There are a lot of nicer people out there with ideas for making family
life better. Someone who says "be loving" (in this fairly innocuous
blurb) and elsewhere, "spank them till they cry" lacks credibility in
the "loving" department, that's all. <g>
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
Two mainstream "professional" names that will bring out the worst in unschoolers are James Dobson and John Rosemond. They give the exact opposite advise that we would for peaseful parenting. They advocate adversarial relationships with children---especially teens! They strive to provide top-down control in families. Rosemond pushes "vitamin N" (the word NO) as much as possible.
They're just really lousy advice givers. We suggest you stay as far away from them as possible.
When I read your bit on Dobson yesterdy, I groaned that someone was posting Dobson advice. But I liked the part about greeting each other postively each time we meet. It's a nice start. But we *should* do that and be that person with our families ALL the time.
Unfortanately Dobson doesn't expect you to keep it up all day. He expects you to have to say NO arbitrarily the rest of the day, so this is only a nice way to start. In his mind, you are supposed to lay down th law the rest of the time!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
I'm sorry you were offended. I felt that since this was a beginner
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They're just really lousy advice givers. We suggest you stay as far away from them as possible.
When I read your bit on Dobson yesterdy, I groaned that someone was posting Dobson advice. But I liked the part about greeting each other postively each time we meet. It's a nice start. But we *should* do that and be that person with our families ALL the time.
Unfortanately Dobson doesn't expect you to keep it up all day. He expects you to have to say NO arbitrarily the rest of the day, so this is only a nice way to start. In his mind, you are supposed to lay down th law the rest of the time!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
I'm sorry you were offended. I felt that since this was a beginner
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Two mainstream "professional" names that will bring out the worst in unschoolers are James Dobson and John Rosemond. They give the exact opposite advise that we would for peaseful parenting. They advocate adversarial relationships with children---especially teens! They strive to provide top-down control in families. Rosemond pushes "vitamin N" (the word NO) as much as possible.
They're just really lousy advice givers. We suggest you stay as far away from them as possible.
When I read your bit on Dobson yesterdy, I groaned that someone was posting Dobson advice. But I liked the part about greeting each other postively each time we meet. It's a nice start. But we *should* do that and be that person with our families ALL the time.
Unfortanately Dobson doesn't expect you to keep it up all day. He expects you to have to say NO arbitrarily the rest of the day, so this is only a nice way to start. In his mind, you are supposed to lay down th law the rest of the time!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
I'm sorry you were offended. I felt that since this was a beginner
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They're just really lousy advice givers. We suggest you stay as far away from them as possible.
When I read your bit on Dobson yesterdy, I groaned that someone was posting Dobson advice. But I liked the part about greeting each other postively each time we meet. It's a nice start. But we *should* do that and be that person with our families ALL the time.
Unfortanately Dobson doesn't expect you to keep it up all day. He expects you to have to say NO arbitrarily the rest of the day, so this is only a nice way to start. In his mind, you are supposed to lay down th law the rest of the time!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
-----Original Message-----
I'm sorry you were offended. I felt that since this was a beginner
list, that maybe a short term goal for a mom who was having trouble
draggin kids out of bed in the morning would be helpful.
I didn't read it as a trick. I didn't see him say to be nice for five
minutes so you can beat your kids later. What it said was that those
first few moments together can make a difference for the day. If a
mom is dragging her kids out of bed, what tone is that setting for
the rest of the day? I've seen that in myself as a new mom to this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"A girlfriend of mine put a mattress next to her bed for her kids that
needed to be closer to their parents."
I bought the kids giant dog pillows last year, for laying on while
watching tv, or playing with. In our new house, we have a queen bed
rather than the king. So I use those big dog pillows and Jalen sleeps
next to us on the floor...Sierra joining him most nights.:)
Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!
I usually lay down with them on the floor and move up to the bed
sometime in the night. Jalen often crawls into bed with me, but I just
move him back down after he's deeply asleep. We just don't fit in that
bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
needed to be closer to their parents."
I bought the kids giant dog pillows last year, for laying on while
watching tv, or playing with. In our new house, we have a queen bed
rather than the king. So I use those big dog pillows and Jalen sleeps
next to us on the floor...Sierra joining him most nights.:)
Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!
I usually lay down with them on the floor and move up to the bed
sometime in the night. Jalen often crawls into bed with me, but I just
move him back down after he's deeply asleep. We just don't fit in that
bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Danielle Conger
Ren Allen wrote:
pillows. We got a queen up-off-the-floor bed a couple years ago and gave
the girls our twins we had together on the floor which have been moving
around in various configurations. The kids are pretty much in with us on
a regular basis, though the girls occasionally hang in their room
playing quietly until they're ready to fall asleep.
I keep trying to talk dh into moving the full bed from Sam's room that
he *never* sleeps in next to our bed, but he thinks that's too
permanent. Dh would like them all in their own rooms, but he's
outnumbered, and he steadfastly refuses to give up his space and move by
himself into another room. I give him credit, though, as much as he
grumbles for accepting cosleeping throughout the years in all the
varying configurations. His life just looks *so much* different than he
would have envisioned it because he married me. Mostly that's a good
thing, though, and mostly he deals with it pretty gracefully. ;)
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
> I bought the kids giant dog pillows last year, for laying on whileSounds like our bedroom, but we do "nests" with sleeping bags and
> watching tv, or playing with. In our new house, we have a queen bed
> rather than the king. So I use those big dog pillows and Jalen sleeps
> next to us on the floor...Sierra joining him most nights.:)
> Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!
>
> I usually lay down with them on the floor and move up to the bed
> sometime in the night. Jalen often crawls into bed with me, but I just
> move him back down after he's deeply asleep. We just don't fit in that
> bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
pillows. We got a queen up-off-the-floor bed a couple years ago and gave
the girls our twins we had together on the floor which have been moving
around in various configurations. The kids are pretty much in with us on
a regular basis, though the girls occasionally hang in their room
playing quietly until they're ready to fall asleep.
I keep trying to talk dh into moving the full bed from Sam's room that
he *never* sleeps in next to our bed, but he thinks that's too
permanent. Dh would like them all in their own rooms, but he's
outnumbered, and he steadfastly refuses to give up his space and move by
himself into another room. I give him credit, though, as much as he
grumbles for accepting cosleeping throughout the years in all the
varying configurations. His life just looks *so much* different than he
would have envisioned it because he married me. Mostly that's a good
thing, though, and mostly he deals with it pretty gracefully. ;)
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Ren Allen
"Dh would like them all in their own rooms, but he's
outnumbered, and he steadfastly refuses to give up his space and move by
himself into another room."
You just described my dh.
He's actually so relaxed now, he doesn't even grumble.:) He DOES
grumble if everyone isn't quiet when he's trying to sleep (which I
totally understand) but as long as they come into the room quietly, he
never says anything these days.
Poor guy just decided that if being with me was worth it, he'd have to
CHILL (I guess he thinks I'm worth it...phew!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
outnumbered, and he steadfastly refuses to give up his space and move by
himself into another room."
You just described my dh.
He's actually so relaxed now, he doesn't even grumble.:) He DOES
grumble if everyone isn't quiet when he's trying to sleep (which I
totally understand) but as long as they come into the room quietly, he
never says anything these days.
Poor guy just decided that if being with me was worth it, he'd have to
CHILL (I guess he thinks I'm worth it...phew!).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
camden
> Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!We have a recliner in our bedroom & my 14yr old loves to sleep in it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>We just don't fit in thatYou have one of those too? Our 6yr old won't sleep in our bed when dh is
> bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
>
> Ren
home because he has rocking elbows !
Carol
S Drag-teine
"Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!"
That is okay - I equate kids to expensive, smarter pets anyway. You know
when they are infants they get teethers (chew toys), as they are able to
walk they get tethers (leashes) and as the kids get too big for your bed...
Ren your idea is great I think I am going to look into getting my kids some
doggie beds - we will creatively call them "luxury kid mats."
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
"A girlfriend of mine put a mattress next to her bed for her kids that
needed to be closer to their parents."
I bought the kids giant dog pillows last year, for laying on while
watching tv, or playing with. In our new house, we have a queen bed
rather than the king. So I use those big dog pillows and Jalen sleeps
next to us on the floor...Sierra joining him most nights.:)
Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!
I usually lay down with them on the floor and move up to the bed
sometime in the night. Jalen often crawls into bed with me, but I just
move him back down after he's deeply asleep. We just don't fit in that
bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
That is okay - I equate kids to expensive, smarter pets anyway. You know
when they are infants they get teethers (chew toys), as they are able to
walk they get tethers (leashes) and as the kids get too big for your bed...
Ren your idea is great I think I am going to look into getting my kids some
doggie beds - we will creatively call them "luxury kid mats."
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
"A girlfriend of mine put a mattress next to her bed for her kids that
needed to be closer to their parents."
I bought the kids giant dog pillows last year, for laying on while
watching tv, or playing with. In our new house, we have a queen bed
rather than the king. So I use those big dog pillows and Jalen sleeps
next to us on the floor...Sierra joining him most nights.:)
Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!
I usually lay down with them on the floor and move up to the bed
sometime in the night. Jalen often crawls into bed with me, but I just
move him back down after he's deeply asleep. We just don't fit in that
bed, what with dh sprawling all over the place!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Melissa
Excellent, my hubby keeps asking me why we can't get those...they
look more comfortable than bean bags (and they are bigger, which at
six ft four, is a big deal) I just had a mindset that they were for
dogs, not people. Everyone in our house will be pleased when I
finally relent. ;-)
melissa
look more comfortable than bean bags (and they are bigger, which at
six ft four, is a big deal) I just had a mindset that they were for
dogs, not people. Everyone in our house will be pleased when I
finally relent. ;-)
melissa
On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:50 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:
> "Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!"
>
> That is okay - I equate kids to expensive, smarter pets anyway. You
> know
> when they are infants they get teethers (chew toys), as they are
> able to
> walk they get tethers (leashes) and as the kids get too big for
> your bed...
>
> Ren your idea is great I think I am going to look into getting my
> kids some
> doggie beds - we will creatively call them "luxury kid mats."
[email protected]
>>I equate kids to expensive, smarter pets anyway.>>I know this was meant as a joke (and a cute one :o)) but.....I hope everyone realizes that we do not own our children. They aren't pets of any kind. We shouldn't train and groom them to show. We shouldn't discipline them to jump at our commands.
They are each a unique and whole person from birth. We can't take 'em to the pound if they aren't working out to our family's needs. <g>
--
~Mary, going on about word choices again
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "S Drag-teine" <dragteine@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S Drag-teine
Oh yeah! Plus, a lot of places I looked at online you can wash the covers
and personalize them!
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Melissa
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
Excellent, my hubby keeps asking me why we can't get those...they
look more comfortable than bean bags (and they are bigger, which at
six ft four, is a big deal) I just had a mindset that they were for
dogs, not people. Everyone in our house will be pleased when I
finally relent. ;-)
melissa
and personalize them!
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too.
Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact me
directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Melissa
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtimes
Excellent, my hubby keeps asking me why we can't get those...they
look more comfortable than bean bags (and they are bigger, which at
six ft four, is a big deal) I just had a mindset that they were for
dogs, not people. Everyone in our house will be pleased when I
finally relent. ;-)
melissa
On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:50 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:
> "Yeah, my kids sleep on doggie pillows!!"
>
> That is okay - I equate kids to expensive, smarter pets anyway. You
> know
> when they are infants they get teethers (chew toys), as they are
> able to
> walk they get tethers (leashes) and as the kids get too big for
> your bed...
>
> Ren your idea is great I think I am going to look into getting my
> kids some
> doggie beds - we will creatively call them "luxury kid mats."
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