Dr. Dobson
mas2buds
I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives.
I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
my main concern about beginning unschooling.
Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
Shari
that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives.
I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
my main concern about beginning unschooling.
Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
Shari
Deb
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
belief systems/world views respresented here. Some are Christians
(I'm one), some are not - all sorts. And there is a Radical
Christian Unschooling list on yahoo as well - a specifically
Christian oriented unschooling group - and over there you'll find
LOTS of people (check the archives) who used to spank and no longer
do because it really doesn't square up with what they have come to
believe the Bible itself is teaching nor does it reach the end
result that they want as Christian parents.
Next, "training up a child..." does NOT equal spanking. Spanking is
nowhere advocated in the Bible (not even the 'spare the rod' passage
truly advocates spanking). If you'd like, go to the Rad Christian
Unschooling group and ask - you'll get answers based in Scripture
and lots of experience from people who have BTDT. Or, if you'd
prefer, you can email me directly and we can discuss this offline.
--Deb
wrote:
>This is not specifically a Christian list - there are folks of all
> I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
> that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
> Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
> put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
> discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
> joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
> support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
> to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
> in certain areas of their lives.
>
> I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
> my main concern about beginning unschooling.
>
> Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
>
> Shari
>
belief systems/world views respresented here. Some are Christians
(I'm one), some are not - all sorts. And there is a Radical
Christian Unschooling list on yahoo as well - a specifically
Christian oriented unschooling group - and over there you'll find
LOTS of people (check the archives) who used to spank and no longer
do because it really doesn't square up with what they have come to
believe the Bible itself is teaching nor does it reach the end
result that they want as Christian parents.
Next, "training up a child..." does NOT equal spanking. Spanking is
nowhere advocated in the Bible (not even the 'spare the rod' passage
truly advocates spanking). If you'd like, go to the Rad Christian
Unschooling group and ask - you'll get answers based in Scripture
and lots of experience from people who have BTDT. Or, if you'd
prefer, you can email me directly and we can discuss this offline.
--Deb
m_kher
This list is neither Christian not anti-christian. It is a list for
people who want to understand unschooling. Some of these people are
christians and others are not.
I've read a little bit of Dobson's advice on child-rearing and it
made me cringe. My dislike of Dobson has nothing to do with his being
a christian. It has to do with his authoritarian ideas. There are
other books written by christains that I've liked.
And yes, I too believe that I have the responsibility to guide my
children. But my methods of doing so differ from Dobson's.
You can be a christain and an unschooler. I believe there's a mailing
list for chritian unschoolers. But you cannot follow Dobson and be an
unschooler.
Manisha
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
people who want to understand unschooling. Some of these people are
christians and others are not.
I've read a little bit of Dobson's advice on child-rearing and it
made me cringe. My dislike of Dobson has nothing to do with his being
a christian. It has to do with his authoritarian ideas. There are
other books written by christains that I've liked.
And yes, I too believe that I have the responsibility to guide my
children. But my methods of doing so differ from Dobson's.
You can be a christain and an unschooler. I believe there's a mailing
list for chritian unschoolers. But you cannot follow Dobson and be an
unschooler.
Manisha
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
>
> I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
> that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
> Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
> put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
> discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
> joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
> support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
> to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
> in certain areas of their lives.
>
> I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
> my main concern about beginning unschooling.
>
> Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
>
> Shari
>
camden
".....but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives. "
Shari,
Really quick ............... It doesn't matter what the book is, hitting a
child is WRONG. Bible or not, Dobson or not, friend or not, they way you
were raised or not - its just wrong.
I wouldn't think of training my children ... they are not dogs.
Carol
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives. "
Shari,
Really quick ............... It doesn't matter what the book is, hitting a
child is WRONG. Bible or not, Dobson or not, friend or not, they way you
were raised or not - its just wrong.
I wouldn't think of training my children ... they are not dogs.
Carol
Ren Allen
"This list is neither Christian not anti-christian. It is a list for
people who want to understand unschooling. Some of these people are
christians and others are not.
I've read a little bit of Dobson's advice on child-rearing and it
made me cringe."
That was very well put Manisha! Thanks.
We're not for or against any religion....we're definitely FOR
unschooling and gentle parenting.
We're a bit "anti-Dobson" though.:) We have many Christians, pagans,
atheists, (I believe Muslim and Jewish too), a few of taoist and
buddhist leanings.....a little of everything.
Our commonality is a belief that children deserve respect, kindness
and as much gentle treatment as a person can possibly muster. This
list is very supportive to those trying to move away from punitive
parenting styles, but we're not here to support spanking or any other
form of hurting a child.
If you'd like to have a dialogue about how some of us (Christian and
not) have found spanking to interfere in learning and
gentleness/respect assisting the learning process (and resulting in
kind, respectful children) then you're at a really good list.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
people who want to understand unschooling. Some of these people are
christians and others are not.
I've read a little bit of Dobson's advice on child-rearing and it
made me cringe."
That was very well put Manisha! Thanks.
We're not for or against any religion....we're definitely FOR
unschooling and gentle parenting.
We're a bit "anti-Dobson" though.:) We have many Christians, pagans,
atheists, (I believe Muslim and Jewish too), a few of taoist and
buddhist leanings.....a little of everything.
Our commonality is a belief that children deserve respect, kindness
and as much gentle treatment as a person can possibly muster. This
list is very supportive to those trying to move away from punitive
parenting styles, but we're not here to support spanking or any other
form of hurting a child.
If you'd like to have a dialogue about how some of us (Christian and
not) have found spanking to interfere in learning and
gentleness/respect assisting the learning process (and resulting in
kind, respectful children) then you're at a really good list.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
elizabeth roberts
Shari,
I wouldn't necessarily say Anti-Christian. There are many people here who don't share our beliefs, which is ok. I don't expect others to feel the same as I do. But if you want to FOCUS on unschooling as a Christian, then you might enjoy the RadChristianUnschoolers or CCU (ChristCenteredUnschooling) lists.
Beth
mas2buds <mas2buds@...> wrote:
I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives.
I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
my main concern about beginning unschooling.
Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
Shari
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wouldn't necessarily say Anti-Christian. There are many people here who don't share our beliefs, which is ok. I don't expect others to feel the same as I do. But if you want to FOCUS on unschooling as a Christian, then you might enjoy the RadChristianUnschoolers or CCU (ChristCenteredUnschooling) lists.
Beth
mas2buds <mas2buds@...> wrote:
I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
in certain areas of their lives.
I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
my main concern about beginning unschooling.
Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
Shari
SPONSORED LINKS
Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Sing, Dance, Laugh...LOVE!
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 19, 2006, at 1:03 PM, mas2buds wrote:
written below since it gets into belief systems. Just wanted to point
you in the direction of exploring the idea that people can be
Christian and feel they have a responsibility to guide their children
and help them make sound decisions without believing God wants them
to spank:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I feel we have a responsibilityHere's something on Sandra Dodd's page (http://sandradodd.com/spanking):
> to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
> in certain areas of their lives.
> Until I read Dr. William Sears' books, I never realized there wasHere's a bit of that. This list isn't the place to discuss what's
> another way to "train my children in the way they will go".
> Unfortunately it was after my first two were school-age and my 3rd
> was 3 years old. My 3rd child has benefited greatly though and
> knows that the only spanks he will ever get from now on are "lip
> spanks" (our joke for kissies). To any who are still spanking in
> the name of God ( possibly even though your heart is breaking and
> you feel sick to your stomach every time like I did), please read
> the following article. Dr. William Sears, a pediatrician, a father
> of 8, and a Christian. He explains why spanking doesn't have to be
> the only "biblical" way of disciplining a child... http://
> www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp
>
>
> "wifetovegman2002"
written below since it gets into belief systems. Just wanted to point
you in the direction of exploring the idea that people can be
Christian and feel they have a responsibility to guide their children
and help them make sound decisions without believing God wants them
to spank:
> 6. HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICALJoyce
> Don't use the Bible as an excuse to spank. There is confusion in
> the ranks of people of Judeo-Christian heritage who, seeking help
> from the Bible in their effort to raise godly children, believe
> that God commands them to spank. They take "spare the rod and spoil
> the child" seriously and fear that if they don't spank, they will
> commit the sin of losing control of their child. In our counseling
> experience, we find that these people are devoted parents who love
> God and love their children, but they misunderstand the concept of
> the rod.
>
> Rod verses - what they really mean. The following are the biblical
> verseswhich have caused the greatest confusion:
>
> "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of
> discipline will drive it far from him." (Prov. 22:15)
>
> "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is
> careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24)
>
> "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with
> the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul
> from death." (Prov. 23:13-14)
>
> "The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to itself
> disgraces his mother." (Prov. 29:15)
>
> At first glance these verses may sound pro-spanking. But you might
> consider a different interpretation of these teachings.
> "Rod" (shebet) means different things in different parts of the
> Bible. The Hebrew dictionary gives this word various meanings: a
> stick (for punishment, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.).
> While the rod could be used for hitting, it was more frequently
> used for guiding wandering sheep. Shepherds didn't use the rod to
> beat their sheep - and children are certainly more valuable than
> sheep. As shepherd-author Philip Keller teaches so well in A
> Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23, the shepherd's rod was used to fight
> off prey and the staff was used to gently guide sheep along the
> right path. ("Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." � Psalm
> 23:4).
>
> Jewish families we've interviewed, who carefully follow dietary and
> lifestyle guidelines in the Scripture, do not practice "rod
> correction" with their children because they do not follow that
> interpretation of the text.
>
> The book of Proverbs is one of poetry. It is logical that the
> writer would have used a well-known tool to form an image of
> authority. We believe that this is the point that God makes about
> the rod in the Bible � parents take charge of your children. When
> you re-read the "rod verses," use the concept of parental authority
> when you come to the word "rod," ratherthan the concept of beating
> or spanking. It rings true in every instance.
>
> While Christians and Jews believe that the Old Testament is the
> inspired word of God, it is also a historical text that has been
> interpreted in many ways over the centuries, sometimes incorrectly
> in order to support the beliefs of the times. These "rod" verses
> have been burdened with interpretations about corporal punishment
> that support human ideas. Other parts of the Bible, especially the
> New Testament, suggest that respect, authority, and tenderness
> should be the prevailing attitudes toward children among people of
> faith.
>
> In the New Testament, Christ modified the traditional eye-for-an-
> eye system of justice with His turn-the-other-cheek approach.
> Christ preached gentleness, love, and understanding, and seemed
> against any harsh use of the rod, as stated by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:21:
> "Shall I come to you with the whip (rod), or in love and with a
> gentle spirit?" Paul went on to teach fathers about the importance
> of not provoking anger in their children (which is what spanking
> usually does): "Fathers, do not exasperate your children" (Eph.
> 6:4), and "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will be
> discouraged" (Col. 3:21).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mas2buds
I appreciate the feedback to my message! Being new to
unschooling, I have a zillion questions, of course and
am happy to see people care and are willing to share their
views and opinions.
My husband and I are not quick to spank...probably can count
the times on both hands that my 5 yo daughter has been swatted.
I am interested in reading more about this and searching what the
scriptures really do teach about this. I'm willing to learn!
I'm thankful no-one judged me for my question. I do have different
parenting and 'schooling' methods than people around me (family,etc.)
are used to, so I will really consider all of you my friends.
Thanks again!
Shari
--- In [email protected], "m_kher" <m_kher@y...>
wrote:
unschooling, I have a zillion questions, of course and
am happy to see people care and are willing to share their
views and opinions.
My husband and I are not quick to spank...probably can count
the times on both hands that my 5 yo daughter has been swatted.
I am interested in reading more about this and searching what the
scriptures really do teach about this. I'm willing to learn!
I'm thankful no-one judged me for my question. I do have different
parenting and 'schooling' methods than people around me (family,etc.)
are used to, so I will really consider all of you my friends.
Thanks again!
Shari
--- In [email protected], "m_kher" <m_kher@y...>
wrote:
>being
> This list is neither Christian not anti-christian. It is a list for
> people who want to understand unschooling. Some of these people are
> christians and others are not.
>
> I've read a little bit of Dobson's advice on child-rearing and it
> made me cringe. My dislike of Dobson has nothing to do with his
> a christian. It has to do with his authoritarian ideas. There aremailing
> other books written by christains that I've liked.
>
> And yes, I too believe that I have the responsibility to guide my
> children. But my methods of doing so differ from Dobson's.
>
> You can be a christain and an unschooler. I believe there's a
> list for chritian unschoolers. But you cannot follow Dobson and bean
> unschooler.<mas2buds@h...>
>
> Manisha
> --- In [email protected], "mas2buds"
> wrote:something
> >
> > I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into'
> > that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-responsibility
> > Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
> > put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
> > discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
> > joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
> > support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> > child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a
> > to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisionsthinking...
> > in certain areas of their lives.
> >
> > I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
> > my main concern about beginning unschooling.
> >
> > Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking,
> >
> > Shari
> >
>
mas2buds
>I'm ready to learn! Please share with me (and others, I'm sure)
> If you'd like to have a dialogue about how some of us (Christian and
> not) have found spanking to interfere in learning and
> gentleness/respect assisting the learning process (and resulting in
> kind, respectful children) then you're at a really good list.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
any info you can. I like to read so any books, etc. would be
helpful, too.
Thank you!
Shari
mas2buds
I think I'm going to learn alot here!
Shari
Shari
--- In [email protected], camden <ccoutlaw@d...> wrote:
>
> ".....but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
> to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
> in certain areas of their lives. "
>
>
> Shari,
> Really quick ............... It doesn't matter what the book is,
hitting a
> child is WRONG. Bible or not, Dobson or not, friend or not, they way
you
> were raised or not - its just wrong.
>
> I wouldn't think of training my children ... they are not dogs.
>
> Carol
>
mas2buds
Deb,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I would be interested in knowing
more of what you could share. And maybe the place to do it would
be privately. How do we do that? It would be nice to talk with
you.
Shari
--- In [email protected], "Deb" <soggyboysmom@y...>
wrote:
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I would be interested in knowing
more of what you could share. And maybe the place to do it would
be privately. How do we do that? It would be nice to talk with
you.
Shari
--- In [email protected], "Deb" <soggyboysmom@y...>
wrote:
><mas2buds@h...>
> --- In [email protected], "mas2buds"
> wrote:something
> >
> > I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into'
> > that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-responsibility
> > Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
> > put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
> > discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
> > joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
> > support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> > child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a
> > to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisionsthinking...
> > in certain areas of their lives.
> >
> > I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
> > my main concern about beginning unschooling.
> >
> > Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking,
> >passage
> > Shari
> >
> This is not specifically a Christian list - there are folks of all
> belief systems/world views respresented here. Some are Christians
> (I'm one), some are not - all sorts. And there is a Radical
> Christian Unschooling list on yahoo as well - a specifically
> Christian oriented unschooling group - and over there you'll find
> LOTS of people (check the archives) who used to spank and no longer
> do because it really doesn't square up with what they have come to
> believe the Bible itself is teaching nor does it reach the end
> result that they want as Christian parents.
>
> Next, "training up a child..." does NOT equal spanking. Spanking is
> nowhere advocated in the Bible (not even the 'spare the rod'
> truly advocates spanking). If you'd like, go to the Rad Christian
> Unschooling group and ask - you'll get answers based in Scripture
> and lots of experience from people who have BTDT. Or, if you'd
> prefer, you can email me directly and we can discuss this offline.
>
> --Deb
>
camden
I already have thanks to alot of patient people here :) If your open &
willing they are a great help on your journey !!
Carol
willing they are a great help on your journey !!
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "mas2buds" <mas2buds@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Dr. Dobson
>I think I'm going to learn alot here!
>
> Shari
Ren Allen
"I'm ready to learn! Please share with me (and others, I'm sure)
any info you can. I like to read so any books, etc. would be
helpful, too."
You're going to get an earful....but it sounds like you're ready!:0
I really, really love Rue's book for the sweet, gentle view of
unschooling. She's got it set up as question/answer style, so it's
easy to jump around, flip back and forth, read it in short spurts and
take what you need for the moment.
It's called "Parenting a Free Child" and can be found here:
http://www.freechild.info/
I love all of John Holts books, which focus more on respect and
learning, than the nitty, gritty details of parenting...but extremely
helpful.
Think, think...what helped me get beyond punitive parenting? (or am I
totally beyond it??...those old tapes start playing sometimes and I
can scarcely believe what comes out of my mouth!!)
Oh, "Whole Child, Whole Parent" is AWESOME..and a spiritual look at
parenting. Very kind and loving.
My sister loves a different book...can't remember, she'll be along
shortly though.
OH DUH...Get the CD by Sandra Dodd and I on "Mindful Parenting" from
the '05 Live and Learn conference! You can order that, and other
wonderful inspiration at liveandlearnconference.org.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
any info you can. I like to read so any books, etc. would be
helpful, too."
You're going to get an earful....but it sounds like you're ready!:0
I really, really love Rue's book for the sweet, gentle view of
unschooling. She's got it set up as question/answer style, so it's
easy to jump around, flip back and forth, read it in short spurts and
take what you need for the moment.
It's called "Parenting a Free Child" and can be found here:
http://www.freechild.info/
I love all of John Holts books, which focus more on respect and
learning, than the nitty, gritty details of parenting...but extremely
helpful.
Think, think...what helped me get beyond punitive parenting? (or am I
totally beyond it??...those old tapes start playing sometimes and I
can scarcely believe what comes out of my mouth!!)
Oh, "Whole Child, Whole Parent" is AWESOME..and a spiritual look at
parenting. Very kind and loving.
My sister loves a different book...can't remember, she'll be along
shortly though.
OH DUH...Get the CD by Sandra Dodd and I on "Mindful Parenting" from
the '05 Live and Learn conference! You can order that, and other
wonderful inspiration at liveandlearnconference.org.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Danielle Conger
Ren Allen wrote:
and all that and more! ;)
wagon and needs to get back on track!) and I honestly wasn't wild about
it. It didn't speak to me, but that may have been due to it's emphasis
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader.
The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
>Totally, totally second Rue's book as a recommendation. It's everything
> It's called "Parenting a Free Child" and can be found here:
> http://www.freechild.info/
and all that and more! ;)
>We read that as part of the AU book discussion (which has fallen off the
> Oh, "Whole Child, Whole Parent" is AWESOME..and a spiritual look at
> parenting. Very kind and loving.
> My sister loves a different book...can't remember, she'll be along
> shortly though.
wagon and needs to get back on track!) and I honestly wasn't wild about
it. It didn't speak to me, but that may have been due to it's emphasis
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader.
The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Ren Allen
"It didn't speak to me, but that may have been due to it's emphasis
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader."
You know, it's been a few years since I've read it and I remembered it
being theistic, but not Christian. Oh well, it might be perfect for
the Christian families looking for change. I guess I need to look at
it again!:)
"The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting."
THAT'S the one!! My sister raves about this book, says it was the most
helpful book in making that shift she needed. Recommends it to everyone.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader."
You know, it's been a few years since I've read it and I remembered it
being theistic, but not Christian. Oh well, it might be perfect for
the Christian families looking for change. I guess I need to look at
it again!:)
"The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting."
THAT'S the one!! My sister raves about this book, says it was the most
helpful book in making that shift she needed. Recommends it to everyone.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Deb
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
private email message and we can go from there.
--Deb
wrote:
>If you click on the "Send email" that occurs at the top of this
> Deb,
> Thank you for your reply. Yes, I would be interested in knowing
> more of what you could share. And maybe the place to do it would
> be privately. How do we do that? It would be nice to talk with
> you.
>
> Shari
message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
private email message and we can go from there.
--Deb
Deb
Can I third Rue's book? (or is that pushing it lol?)
Also, Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles (Mary Sheedy Kurcinka) is a
good one to build a toolkit of useful, win/win tools since if you are
going to remove punitive, coercive tools from your parenting toolkit,
you'll need to replace them with something otherwise the vacuum will
leave space for them to creep back in again.
Oh and don't miss a lot of the collected writings and stuff at
Sandra's website (sandradodd.com) - she's collected up pieces from
articles and talks and message board postings, hers and lots of
others, that cover a whole range of topics/situations.
And, definitely go over to RadChristianUnschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RadChristianUnschoolers/ - do a search
in the archives for the topics spanking or Pearls (the Pearl's ideas
on 'discipline' and spanking are pretty scary but it generated a lot
of discussion on the whole subject of raising kids Biblically, what
is "discipline", etc)
--Deb
Also, Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles (Mary Sheedy Kurcinka) is a
good one to build a toolkit of useful, win/win tools since if you are
going to remove punitive, coercive tools from your parenting toolkit,
you'll need to replace them with something otherwise the vacuum will
leave space for them to creep back in again.
Oh and don't miss a lot of the collected writings and stuff at
Sandra's website (sandradodd.com) - she's collected up pieces from
articles and talks and message board postings, hers and lots of
others, that cover a whole range of topics/situations.
And, definitely go over to RadChristianUnschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RadChristianUnschoolers/ - do a search
in the archives for the topics spanking or Pearls (the Pearl's ideas
on 'discipline' and spanking are pretty scary but it generated a lot
of discussion on the whole subject of raising kids Biblically, what
is "discipline", etc)
--Deb
S Drag-teine
I am not Christian but I am also not anti-Christian. I don't spank or hit my
kids but if it doesn't offend anyone else... I wouldn't mind hearing this
discussion play out. Of course, if it does offend anyone then...
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deb
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Dr. Dobson
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
belief systems/world views respresented here. Some are Christians
(I'm one), some are not - all sorts. And there is a Radical
Christian Unschooling list on yahoo as well - a specifically
Christian oriented unschooling group - and over there you'll find
LOTS of people (check the archives) who used to spank and no longer
do because it really doesn't square up with what they have come to
believe the Bible itself is teaching nor does it reach the end
result that they want as Christian parents.
Next, "training up a child..." does NOT equal spanking. Spanking is
nowhere advocated in the Bible (not even the 'spare the rod' passage
truly advocates spanking). If you'd like, go to the Rad Christian
Unschooling group and ask - you'll get answers based in Scripture
and lots of experience from people who have BTDT. Or, if you'd
prefer, you can email me directly and we can discuss this offline.
--Deb
Yahoo! Groups Links
kids but if it doesn't offend anyone else... I wouldn't mind hearing this
discussion play out. Of course, if it does offend anyone then...
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deb
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Dr. Dobson
--- In [email protected], "mas2buds" <mas2buds@h...>
wrote:
>This is not specifically a Christian list - there are folks of all
> I have a few questions...1st, I don't want to 'read into' something
> that is not here. I was wondering, though, is this list a non-
> Christian list? I read the post regarding Dr. Dobson and it
> put up red flags in my face. I am not trying to cause a major
> discussion about Christianity, but I did not read anything before
> joining about this being anti-Christian. Yes, Dr. Dobson does
> support spanking, etc., but the Bible tells us to "Train up a
> child in the way he should go...". I feel we have a responsibility
> to guide our children in helping them to make sound decisions
> in certain areas of their lives.
>
> I think I understood Susan's question regarding TV. This has been
> my main concern about beginning unschooling.
>
> Just wondering about these things...thinking, thinking, thinking...
>
> Shari
>
belief systems/world views respresented here. Some are Christians
(I'm one), some are not - all sorts. And there is a Radical
Christian Unschooling list on yahoo as well - a specifically
Christian oriented unschooling group - and over there you'll find
LOTS of people (check the archives) who used to spank and no longer
do because it really doesn't square up with what they have come to
believe the Bible itself is teaching nor does it reach the end
result that they want as Christian parents.
Next, "training up a child..." does NOT equal spanking. Spanking is
nowhere advocated in the Bible (not even the 'spare the rod' passage
truly advocates spanking). If you'd like, go to the Rad Christian
Unschooling group and ask - you'll get answers based in Scripture
and lots of experience from people who have BTDT. Or, if you'd
prefer, you can email me directly and we can discuss this offline.
--Deb
Yahoo! Groups Links
Ren Allen
"If you click on the "Send email" that occurs at the top of this
message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
private email message and we can go from there."
I completely and totally understand the need for private
conversations...but if you guys discuss things you think might help
other people, feel free to bring it here too.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
private email message and we can go from there."
I completely and totally understand the need for private
conversations...but if you guys discuss things you think might help
other people, feel free to bring it here too.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
but I figured (just guessing) that it is likely to start straying
more into personal belief systems which might get way off to a
tangent from the purpose of this board.
--Deb
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
>Sure - we'll bring stuff back if it looks like it would help others
> "If you click on the "Send email" that occurs at the top of this
> message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
> private email message and we can go from there."
>
> I completely and totally understand the need for private
> conversations...but if you guys discuss things you think might help
> other people, feel free to bring it here too.:)
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
but I figured (just guessing) that it is likely to start straying
more into personal belief systems which might get way off to a
tangent from the purpose of this board.
--Deb
April Morris
I had minor surgery yesterday so I'm trying to make myself be good and not
do too much.....a perfect time to chime in a lot more than I usually do on
these lists! Sure hope you all don't mind.
I've been thinking about the Dobson stuff and parenting and where people are
when they come to unschooling. Our ideas and philosophies about parenting
have changed so much since we started this whole parenting adventure almost
20 years ago. We are a Christian unschooling family. We were young when we
had our first child, we read anything and everything on parenting. Neither
of us came from remotely healthy parenting homes and we knew we had to learn
a new way. We read a lot and I feel so fortunate that we knew even then to
ditch the Pearls kind of stuff. We settled on Dobson. It made sense at the
time. Coming from backgrounds with no rhyme or reason for discipline and
parenting, it felt good to see something that had reasons and a philosophy.
It was also the "right" thing to do in the circles we were in at the time.
As we matured and gained experience and confidence, a lot of Dobson didn't
seem to fit right. As we looked into our own ideas about life, our beliefs,
our parenting, we found a lot in Dobson's stuff that felt wrong, his ideas
were too fundamentalist and conservative. He started going off into areas
that we thought we're way off base. We then were introduced to Parenting
with Love and Logic, another Christian parenting book. It was better than
Dobson, more respectful (if looking at it on a continuum). It dealt with the
need for kids to know how to make good choices.... it made sense to us that
kids need practice and experience in decision making and that kids need and
have the right to their own choices. But...a lot of the ideas were still
punitive and disrespectful. A lot of looking for and creating adversarial
circumstances. Again, it began to not feel right. As we began to investigate
unschooling, we also began to look at the reasons and ideas behind the
different parenting philosophies we were exposed to. This all was part of a
big process with many steps. And in reality, the process included much more
than just our parenting philosophies. It included looking at our beliefs,
our own ideas. It began to effect how we saw our kids and the relationship
we had and what we wanted. It included looking at our relationships with our
families and Friends. I'm writing this because I remember Dobson and
the others making sense. I remember thinking that had to the right way to do
things. I remember the fear that if we didn't follow their "recipe" we would
have horrible kids. Even though they are not at all what I would recommend
now, they were important stepping stones in getting from where we were to
where we are now. Not everyone takes the slow route like we did, and not
everyone needs all the steps, but for us, these ideas bridged where we were
to where we are now. Sometimes I wished we could have started out being AP
parents, understanding respectful parenting ideas and not needing the whole
process. It wasn't fair to Kate especially, our first born. But she
survived, we've talked about where we were and why and apologized where
needed. We did the absolute best we could given where we were and what
we knew at the time and I can accept that. But, how much better to not have
started off there. And I am so thankful for people willing to challenge my
ideas. And I'm glad Chuck and I were willing to question things and not
accept ideas 'just because'. Being willing to be wrong, being willing to
look at what and why we believe about most anything, and being willing to
change......those matter far more than what one believes at any given
moment. This kind of looking and challenging didn't change our core
religious beliefs (something that can happen, but didn't for us) but we do
think that a lot of 'truth' that is taught is cultural and not based on real
knowledge. We needed to find out for ourselves what things meant and how
they applied to our family. Our process was long, in part because we
didn't have anyone along side us to challenge us, encourage us or support
us. I hope that sharing our process here and other places can help others
navigate this process more quickly than we were able to do so. Or at least
give people something to think about. And hopefully, my pain medication
hasn't made this totally incoherent and off base!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
do too much.....a perfect time to chime in a lot more than I usually do on
these lists! Sure hope you all don't mind.
I've been thinking about the Dobson stuff and parenting and where people are
when they come to unschooling. Our ideas and philosophies about parenting
have changed so much since we started this whole parenting adventure almost
20 years ago. We are a Christian unschooling family. We were young when we
had our first child, we read anything and everything on parenting. Neither
of us came from remotely healthy parenting homes and we knew we had to learn
a new way. We read a lot and I feel so fortunate that we knew even then to
ditch the Pearls kind of stuff. We settled on Dobson. It made sense at the
time. Coming from backgrounds with no rhyme or reason for discipline and
parenting, it felt good to see something that had reasons and a philosophy.
It was also the "right" thing to do in the circles we were in at the time.
As we matured and gained experience and confidence, a lot of Dobson didn't
seem to fit right. As we looked into our own ideas about life, our beliefs,
our parenting, we found a lot in Dobson's stuff that felt wrong, his ideas
were too fundamentalist and conservative. He started going off into areas
that we thought we're way off base. We then were introduced to Parenting
with Love and Logic, another Christian parenting book. It was better than
Dobson, more respectful (if looking at it on a continuum). It dealt with the
need for kids to know how to make good choices.... it made sense to us that
kids need practice and experience in decision making and that kids need and
have the right to their own choices. But...a lot of the ideas were still
punitive and disrespectful. A lot of looking for and creating adversarial
circumstances. Again, it began to not feel right. As we began to investigate
unschooling, we also began to look at the reasons and ideas behind the
different parenting philosophies we were exposed to. This all was part of a
big process with many steps. And in reality, the process included much more
than just our parenting philosophies. It included looking at our beliefs,
our own ideas. It began to effect how we saw our kids and the relationship
we had and what we wanted. It included looking at our relationships with our
families and Friends. I'm writing this because I remember Dobson and
the others making sense. I remember thinking that had to the right way to do
things. I remember the fear that if we didn't follow their "recipe" we would
have horrible kids. Even though they are not at all what I would recommend
now, they were important stepping stones in getting from where we were to
where we are now. Not everyone takes the slow route like we did, and not
everyone needs all the steps, but for us, these ideas bridged where we were
to where we are now. Sometimes I wished we could have started out being AP
parents, understanding respectful parenting ideas and not needing the whole
process. It wasn't fair to Kate especially, our first born. But she
survived, we've talked about where we were and why and apologized where
needed. We did the absolute best we could given where we were and what
we knew at the time and I can accept that. But, how much better to not have
started off there. And I am so thankful for people willing to challenge my
ideas. And I'm glad Chuck and I were willing to question things and not
accept ideas 'just because'. Being willing to be wrong, being willing to
look at what and why we believe about most anything, and being willing to
change......those matter far more than what one believes at any given
moment. This kind of looking and challenging didn't change our core
religious beliefs (something that can happen, but didn't for us) but we do
think that a lot of 'truth' that is taught is cultural and not based on real
knowledge. We needed to find out for ourselves what things meant and how
they applied to our family. Our process was long, in part because we
didn't have anyone along side us to challenge us, encourage us or support
us. I hope that sharing our process here and other places can help others
navigate this process more quickly than we were able to do so. Or at least
give people something to think about. And hopefully, my pain medication
hasn't made this totally incoherent and off base!
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 1/20/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "If you click on the "Send email" that occurs at the top of this
> message (toward the right of the Subject line), you can send me a
> private email message and we can go from there."
>
> I completely and totally understand the need for private
> conversations...but if you guys discuss things you think might help
> other people, feel free to bring it here too.:)
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
> --
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: mas2buds mas2buds@...
My husband and I are not quick to spank...probably can count
the times on both hands that my 5 yo daughter has been swatted.
I am interested in reading more about this and searching what the
scriptures really do teach about this. I'm willing to learn!
-=-=-=-
I'm surprised Pam hasn't chimed in on this, but she has an e-list to help parents stop spanking. It's not there to justify spanking---it's for parents who are struggling to change their attitudes and methods and toolboxes.
It's doable, but you need to be willing to examine what you're doing and what your options are.
Pam??? The list's name??? Something like: [email protected]??? maybe??
Someone will come by with the correct link if I'm wrong.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: mas2buds mas2buds@...
My husband and I are not quick to spank...probably can count
the times on both hands that my 5 yo daughter has been swatted.
I am interested in reading more about this and searching what the
scriptures really do teach about this. I'm willing to learn!
-=-=-=-
I'm surprised Pam hasn't chimed in on this, but she has an e-list to help parents stop spanking. It's not there to justify spanking---it's for parents who are struggling to change their attitudes and methods and toolboxes.
It's doable, but you need to be willing to examine what you're doing and what your options are.
Pam??? The list's name??? Something like: [email protected]??? maybe??
Someone will come by with the correct link if I'm wrong.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 20, 2006, at 3:26 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
Website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoMoreSpanking/
To subscribe:
[email protected]
It won't help with the Christian philosophical struggle, though. It's
for parents who've already decided not to spank and then want to know
what to do instead.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Pam??? The list's name??? Something like:Yup.
> [email protected]??? maybe??
Website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoMoreSpanking/
To subscribe:
[email protected]
It won't help with the Christian philosophical struggle, though. It's
for parents who've already decided not to spank and then want to know
what to do instead.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Smith
> I'm surprised Pam hasn't chimed in on this, but sheI really wish my friend would look at that though I
> has an e-list to help parents stop spanking. It's
> not there to justify spanking---it's for parents who
> are struggling to change their attitudes and methods
> and toolboxes.
>
know she would not and I do not know if I could get
the guts to suggest it. I just found out last night
that he spanked her son(8) with a wooden spoon since
spanking the regular was was not hurting him anymore.
This broke my heart!I literally cried. I am so glad
to be on a list with people whi agree that this is
just wrong! Besides my husband I have no one to
discuss this with.....I just wanted to say thanks for
being you guys!
Lisa
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[email protected]
>>I really wish my friend would look at that though Iknow she would not and I do not know if I could get
the guts to suggest it.>>
Could you send her a link to a website or article? Maybe in the email you could express your concern. Hitting a kid with a wooden spoon is NOT okay and could be reported as abuse these days. Times are changing from when I was growing up and my mom used the spoon.
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Lisa Smith <goobergrl6@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]