unschoolers at school?
Christine Evenson
Ok,
I am new at this unschooling journey, so please be patient with my
questions!
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
I am new at this unschooling journey, so please be patient with my
questions!
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
[email protected]
I'm not an expert on this subject (yet!) BUT, yes, they are an unschooler if
they are taking college class's of THEIR choice and because they want to. And
as far as the other class's you mentioned, music, gymnastics and such, yes,
they are still unschoolers, as far as the child is taking them because they
want to.
Syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn out
people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able to
learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they are taking college class's of THEIR choice and because they want to. And
as far as the other class's you mentioned, music, gymnastics and such, yes,
they are still unschoolers, as far as the child is taking them because they
want to.
Syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn out
people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able to
learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 6/23/04 12:34 PM, Christine Evenson at damselfly@... wrote:
can call what they do?
The purpose of discussing what is and isn't unschooling is to help people
get a better grasp of what unschooling is. Once someone does grasp
unschooling, then they can decide for themselves where they'll draw the line
at the edge and whether they will classify kids taking community college
classes as unschooling or not. I could probably give a good argument either
way ;-)
It's interesting to some people to discuss the fringes to see the arguments
people make for how to classify something. To other people it's just
confusing.
If it's confusing to you, don't worry about it.
Joyce
> So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a communityDoes it make a difference what some people on an email list decide what they
> college or such, they are NOT unschooling
> anymore?
can call what they do?
The purpose of discussing what is and isn't unschooling is to help people
get a better grasp of what unschooling is. Once someone does grasp
unschooling, then they can decide for themselves where they'll draw the line
at the edge and whether they will classify kids taking community college
classes as unschooling or not. I could probably give a good argument either
way ;-)
It's interesting to some people to discuss the fringes to see the arguments
people make for how to classify something. To other people it's just
confusing.
If it's confusing to you, don't worry about it.
Joyce
pam sorooshian
On Jun 23, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Onesnotenough@... wrote:
stopped caring if this or that "is unschooling." I mean - I don't care
if they are or are not unschooling, they're doing what they're doing.
The point of talking about unschooling is to talk about how people
learn without schooling.
So if my kid is taking a college class, it isn't particularly useful to
an unschooling list to talk about how well written the syllabus is, how
organized the teacher is, how well the textbook cuts up the subject
into little increments, and what kind of exams the teacher designs.
NONE of that is about unschooling - it is all about schooling.
When unschooled kids do take college classes, they frequently stand out
for their passion for learning, their desire to understand the subject
matter and not just figure out what the teacher is going to put on the
test.
I think they are different - they're not just like other young college
students. I'm comfortable with just saying they were unschooling and
now they're taking college classes.
And I don't think focusing on "who" is or isn't an unschooler is
particularly useful - what is useful is focusing on how kids can learn
without schooling.
There are nuances that are worth talking about, though, in the context
of an unschooling discussion - for example I also see it as really
different when a kid chooses to take a class or study something in a
formal way versus when a parent decides a kid needs to be taught
something in a formal way. The child's experience is going to be very
different.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I'm not an expert on this subject (yet!) BUT, yes, they are anSomehow by the time my kids were taking college level courses, I
> unschooler if
> they are taking college class's of THEIR choice and because they want
> to. And
> as far as the other class's you mentioned, music, gymnastics and such,
> yes,
> they are still unschoolers, as far as the child is taking them because
> they
> want to.
> Syndi
stopped caring if this or that "is unschooling." I mean - I don't care
if they are or are not unschooling, they're doing what they're doing.
The point of talking about unschooling is to talk about how people
learn without schooling.
So if my kid is taking a college class, it isn't particularly useful to
an unschooling list to talk about how well written the syllabus is, how
organized the teacher is, how well the textbook cuts up the subject
into little increments, and what kind of exams the teacher designs.
NONE of that is about unschooling - it is all about schooling.
When unschooled kids do take college classes, they frequently stand out
for their passion for learning, their desire to understand the subject
matter and not just figure out what the teacher is going to put on the
test.
I think they are different - they're not just like other young college
students. I'm comfortable with just saying they were unschooling and
now they're taking college classes.
And I don't think focusing on "who" is or isn't an unschooler is
particularly useful - what is useful is focusing on how kids can learn
without schooling.
There are nuances that are worth talking about, though, in the context
of an unschooling discussion - for example I also see it as really
different when a kid chooses to take a class or study something in a
formal way versus when a parent decides a kid needs to be taught
something in a formal way. The child's experience is going to be very
different.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
I agree that Unschooling is not school, but my perspective on it is a
little different than what I've heard so I guess I'll put my two cents in.
My daughter is public schooled. I don't like it, but she is. We do
however take a very Unschool like approach to the rest of her life and those
of her younger brothers who are and will be exclusively Unschooled. We
could care less about grades, homework, bedtime schedules etc... She's her
own individual; blue hair, different color socks, a clothing style like no
one else in her class. Is she exclusively Unschooled; No, but her life is
so much better than it ever could be if she was strictly public schooled.
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different. We are making
due with the situation we have been handed in the best way we can. I guess
we see Unschooling as more of a lifestyle choice than an academic choice.
I'm not TEACHING my kids using an Unschooling lifestyle, I'm allowing them
to live their life and make their own choices, my public school child is
included in that. Maybe there should be a name for people like her - she's
truly the greatest person I have ever known. Any ideas?
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: pam sorooshian [mailto:pamsoroosh@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] unschoolers at school?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
little different than what I've heard so I guess I'll put my two cents in.
My daughter is public schooled. I don't like it, but she is. We do
however take a very Unschool like approach to the rest of her life and those
of her younger brothers who are and will be exclusively Unschooled. We
could care less about grades, homework, bedtime schedules etc... She's her
own individual; blue hair, different color socks, a clothing style like no
one else in her class. Is she exclusively Unschooled; No, but her life is
so much better than it ever could be if she was strictly public schooled.
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different. We are making
due with the situation we have been handed in the best way we can. I guess
we see Unschooling as more of a lifestyle choice than an academic choice.
I'm not TEACHING my kids using an Unschooling lifestyle, I'm allowing them
to live their life and make their own choices, my public school child is
included in that. Maybe there should be a name for people like her - she's
truly the greatest person I have ever known. Any ideas?
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: pam sorooshian [mailto:pamsoroosh@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] unschoolers at school?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
> When unschooled kids do take college classes, they frequentlystand out for their passion for learning, their desire to understand
the subject matter and not just figure out what the teacher is going
to put on the test.
>*****Yep! It was fascinating to me to be in some of Laurie's classes
>
> -pam
and see the difference. It was as if she was from another planet.
There were a few homeschooled kids in some of our classes, but they
didn't seem to have the same passion for learning that she had. They
appeared to be tired of being taught just like the kids from ps and
saw college as more of the same.
love, Valerie
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different.
<<<<
Well, I think it IS cut-and-dry in that, when you're in school, you ARE
schooled.
But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.
Grace Llewellyn calls it "Guerilla Learning"---I like that.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different.
<<<<
Well, I think it IS cut-and-dry in that, when you're in school, you ARE
schooled.
But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.
Grace Llewellyn calls it "Guerilla Learning"---I like that.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
Kelly,
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.>>>>
I understand what you are saying and I'm not claiming that my daughter is
Unschooled. My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is. We make the best of the situation by taking on a totally different
view as to what public school means to us. In truth it means very little
and although she must stay until she's 16 she knows that the day is arriving
that she can drop out and live her life the way she wants to.
I hate to call her strictly schooled and yet I realize that she's not
strictly unschooled. It's all very confusing. It's almost like we bide our
time in school, holding our breath and then when she's out we can all breath
again.
I'm confusing myself at this point. I want to make it clear I DO agree
with you. My sons are Unschooled She is not, but she is also not schooled
in the tradition sense. Whatever! I give up trying to define it. 8^)
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different.
<<<<
Well, I think it IS cut-and-dry in that, when you're in school, you ARE
schooled.
But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.
Grace Llewellyn calls it "Guerilla Learning"---I like that.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* toschool
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.>>>>
I understand what you are saying and I'm not claiming that my daughter is
Unschooled. My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is. We make the best of the situation by taking on a totally different
view as to what public school means to us. In truth it means very little
and although she must stay until she's 16 she knows that the day is arriving
that she can drop out and live her life the way she wants to.
I hate to call her strictly schooled and yet I realize that she's not
strictly unschooled. It's all very confusing. It's almost like we bide our
time in school, holding our breath and then when she's out we can all breath
again.
I'm confusing myself at this point. I want to make it clear I DO agree
with you. My sons are Unschooled She is not, but she is also not schooled
in the tradition sense. Whatever! I give up trying to define it. 8^)
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different.
<<<<
Well, I think it IS cut-and-dry in that, when you're in school, you ARE
schooled.
But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.
Grace Llewellyn calls it "Guerilla Learning"---I like that.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
"My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is."
Hi, Ann Marie,
I don't think I've been on this list long enough perhaps to know this
situation. I'm curious as to what your daughter's situation is that she has
to be public schooled?... if you feel like sharing that part...
In sympathy with what sounds like a crazy situation for you all,
Joan
she is."
Hi, Ann Marie,
I don't think I've been on this list long enough perhaps to know this
situation. I'm curious as to what your daughter's situation is that she has
to be public schooled?... if you feel like sharing that part...
In sympathy with what sounds like a crazy situation for you all,
Joan
Sherri-Lee Pressman
HI AnnMarie,
I don't want to pry so tell me to butt out if you want, but can I ask why your daughter MUST remain in school? Can't she just drop out now and be unschooled with the rest of your kids? Of course there might be very personal reasons for this and as I said I dont' mean to intrude, I am just curious to hear you say that being public schooled is not her choice and I am wondering what is limiting that choice for you all?
Thanks in advance,
Sherri-Lee
Looking for safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
I don't want to pry so tell me to butt out if you want, but can I ask why your daughter MUST remain in school? Can't she just drop out now and be unschooled with the rest of your kids? Of course there might be very personal reasons for this and as I said I dont' mean to intrude, I am just curious to hear you say that being public schooled is not her choice and I am wondering what is limiting that choice for you all?
Thanks in advance,
Sherri-Lee
Looking for safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
----- Original Message -----
From: G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 6:28 AM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
Kelly,
>>> But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to
school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.>>>>
I understand what you are saying and I'm not claiming that my daughter is
Unschooled. My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is. We make the best of the situation by taking on a totally different
view as to what public school means to us. In truth it means very little
and although she must stay until she's 16 she knows that the day is arriving
that she can drop out and live her life the way she wants to.
I hate to call her strictly schooled and yet I realize that she's not
strictly unschooled. It's all very confusing. It's almost like we bide our
time in school, holding our breath and then when she's out we can all breath
again.
I'm confusing myself at this point. I want to make it clear I DO agree
with you. My sons are Unschooled She is not, but she is also not schooled
in the tradition sense. Whatever! I give up trying to define it. 8^)
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making it sound
so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different.
<<<<
Well, I think it IS cut-and-dry in that, when you're in school, you ARE
schooled.
But children who are allowed to unschool to the point of *going* to school
out of choice ARE different----but they're not unschooled (because they're
schooled). <g> She's going with a different mind-set all-together----and
she's
learning on her own terms, knowing she can quit at any time.
Grace Llewellyn calls it "Guerilla Learning"---I like that.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
Joan,
My daughter goes to school because her father (we're divorced, I'm
re-married) doesn't approve of Homeschooling/Unschooling to put it nicely.
We're working on it though.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
[mailto:salgenovese@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
"My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is."
Hi, Ann Marie,
I don't think I've been on this list long enough perhaps to know this
situation. I'm curious as to what your daughter's situation is that she
has
to be public schooled?... if you feel like sharing that part...
In sympathy with what sounds like a crazy situation for you all,
Joan
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter goes to school because her father (we're divorced, I'm
re-married) doesn't approve of Homeschooling/Unschooling to put it nicely.
We're working on it though.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
[mailto:salgenovese@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Unschoolers at school?
"My point was that she doesn't want to be public schooled, but
she is."
Hi, Ann Marie,
I don't think I've been on this list long enough perhaps to know this
situation. I'm curious as to what your daughter's situation is that she
has
to be public schooled?... if you feel like sharing that part...
In sympathy with what sounds like a crazy situation for you all,
Joan
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jun 24, 2004, at 5:38 AM, G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
wrote:
opposed to "unschoolers." The point isn't to get into some club, to get
a badge that says, "Hi, I'm an UNSCHOOLER." The point is to talk about
learning - and most particularly about how kids can live great
wonderful full rich childhoods without going to school and grow up and
live great wonderful (hey, even rich, if that's what they want)
adulthoods, too.
So - my answer to you, AnnMarie, specifically is: I wouldn't consider
her "an unschooler," I think my kids might (and maybe they "get it"
better since they are living breathing real unschoolers and I'm just a
mom who let it happen), but she's enjoying the benefits of your
understanding of unschooling, so that's great and what difference does
it make what it is called? Heck, how kids can live a good life with
being stuck IN school might even be one of the most significant
outcomes of learning about unschooling. Grace Llewelyn's newest book -
Guerilla Schooling - is about that and so is some of Linda Dobson's
book, "What the Rest of Us Can Learn....." (Sorry - don't have access
to the exact titles right now.)
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
wrote:
> Am I making any sense? Someone, can't recall who, was making itThis is why I think it is more useful to talk about "unschooling" as
> sound
> so cut and dry, but it isn't because everybody is different. We are
> making
> due with the situation we have been handed in the best way we can. I
> guess
> we see Unschooling as more of a lifestyle choice than an academic
> choice.
> I'm not TEACHING my kids using an Unschooling lifestyle, I'm allowing
> them
> to live their life and make their own choices, my public school child
> is
> included in that. Maybe there should be a name for people like her -
> she's
> truly the greatest person I have ever known. Any ideas?
opposed to "unschoolers." The point isn't to get into some club, to get
a badge that says, "Hi, I'm an UNSCHOOLER." The point is to talk about
learning - and most particularly about how kids can live great
wonderful full rich childhoods without going to school and grow up and
live great wonderful (hey, even rich, if that's what they want)
adulthoods, too.
So - my answer to you, AnnMarie, specifically is: I wouldn't consider
her "an unschooler," I think my kids might (and maybe they "get it"
better since they are living breathing real unschoolers and I'm just a
mom who let it happen), but she's enjoying the benefits of your
understanding of unschooling, so that's great and what difference does
it make what it is called? Heck, how kids can live a good life with
being stuck IN school might even be one of the most significant
outcomes of learning about unschooling. Grace Llewelyn's newest book -
Guerilla Schooling - is about that and so is some of Linda Dobson's
book, "What the Rest of Us Can Learn....." (Sorry - don't have access
to the exact titles right now.)
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Jun 24, 2004, at 6:28 AM, G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
wrote:
"are." Too hard to keep track of - they change.
Roya (19) has been taking a full load of academic college courses - she
does nothing but go to class and study - this is summer school - an 18
week semester condensed to 4 weeks. She's bleary-eyed and sick of it -
at the end of the third week.
But she considers herself a radical unschooler - LOVES unschooling - is
an unschooling activist. She intends to spend her life promoting
unschooling - sees it as a major part of her life's work - her mission
in life.
Contrary to some people's opinions <G> - I'm modest about my own
understanding of unschooling. My kids have surpassed me because they
didn't start with my long years of indoctrination - they came into it
unhandicapped, like I was, by having fully bought into the educational
system. My understanding of unschooling is still "self-conscious" and
always will be - theirs is absolutely natural and normal and accepting.
I have to think hard about it to 'get it' - they "know it when they
see it" because they just do.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
wrote:
> Whatever! I give up trying to define it. 8^)See - I gave up long ago. I don't try to define my own kids - what they
"are." Too hard to keep track of - they change.
Roya (19) has been taking a full load of academic college courses - she
does nothing but go to class and study - this is summer school - an 18
week semester condensed to 4 weeks. She's bleary-eyed and sick of it -
at the end of the third week.
But she considers herself a radical unschooler - LOVES unschooling - is
an unschooling activist. She intends to spend her life promoting
unschooling - sees it as a major part of her life's work - her mission
in life.
Contrary to some people's opinions <G> - I'm modest about my own
understanding of unschooling. My kids have surpassed me because they
didn't start with my long years of indoctrination - they came into it
unhandicapped, like I was, by having fully bought into the educational
system. My understanding of unschooling is still "self-conscious" and
always will be - theirs is absolutely natural and normal and accepting.
I have to think hard about it to 'get it' - they "know it when they
see it" because they just do.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
Aha -- you took a piano lesson -- you're not an unschooler? Nah -- that
doesn't sound right to me.
OTOH -- the important thing is how it sounds to you. How's this going to work
in your life?
Nance
In a message dated 6/24/2004 4:43:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
From: "Christine Evenson" <damselfly@...>
Subject: unschoolers at school?
Ok,
I am new at this unschooling journey, so please be patient with my
questions!
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doesn't sound right to me.
OTOH -- the important thing is how it sounds to you. How's this going to work
in your life?
Nance
In a message dated 6/24/2004 4:43:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
From: "Christine Evenson" <damselfly@...>
Subject: unschoolers at school?
Ok,
I am new at this unschooling journey, so please be patient with my
questions!
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 6/25/04 4:50 PM, marbleface@... at marbleface@... wrote:
If someone's goal is unschooling, then what "works" might not be
unschooling.
For some families what sounds right and what works is to send kids to school
or to have them do just one page of math from a workbook each day or send
them to their rooms for misbehavior or making them clean their plates.
If someone wants the goal of "what's right for my family", they'll need to
pick and choose from the ideas here (and elsewhere) to cobble something
together that's uniquely their own. If someone wants to give the gift of
unschooling to their family, then they need more information than doing what
sounds good.
Joyce
> OTOH -- the important thing is how it sounds to you. How's this going to work*If* someone's goal is doing what's right for their family.
> in your life?
If someone's goal is unschooling, then what "works" might not be
unschooling.
For some families what sounds right and what works is to send kids to school
or to have them do just one page of math from a workbook each day or send
them to their rooms for misbehavior or making them clean their plates.
If someone wants the goal of "what's right for my family", they'll need to
pick and choose from the ideas here (and elsewhere) to cobble something
together that's uniquely their own. If someone wants to give the gift of
unschooling to their family, then they need more information than doing what
sounds good.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/23/2004 2:43:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
damselfly@... writes:
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
<<<<<
I would base it on 1) choice, 2) motivation, 3) expectations, and 4) right
to quit.
Is it the child's choice to take the class? Or did a parent say she *must*
have this class?
Why is he taking it? To fit in? Because he knows no other way to learn
(thinks that there *must* be a *teacher* in order to learn?)? Because it sounds
interesting and it's another way to learn about this particular interest?
Because the teacher "knows his stuff" and is a great mentor?
What are the expectations? Good grades? Knowledge learned? Having fun?
Can she quit at any time? Or is there some mandate that she stay the length
of the course even if it's not what she expected or wanted or is no longer
fun----even if it means "wasting" the money?
When the choices belong to *you*, I think it's unschooling. When decisions
are made *for you, I think it's not.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
damselfly@... writes:
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
<<<<<
I would base it on 1) choice, 2) motivation, 3) expectations, and 4) right
to quit.
Is it the child's choice to take the class? Or did a parent say she *must*
have this class?
Why is he taking it? To fit in? Because he knows no other way to learn
(thinks that there *must* be a *teacher* in order to learn?)? Because it sounds
interesting and it's another way to learn about this particular interest?
Because the teacher "knows his stuff" and is a great mentor?
What are the expectations? Good grades? Knowledge learned? Having fun?
Can she quit at any time? Or is there some mandate that she stay the length
of the course even if it's not what she expected or wanted or is no longer
fun----even if it means "wasting" the money?
When the choices belong to *you*, I think it's unschooling. When decisions
are made *for you, I think it's not.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>When the choices belong to *you*, I think it's Unschooling. Whendecisions
are made *for you, I think it's not.>>>
Like I have said many times; I don't consider my daughter to be Unschooled.
But I wish that every parent thought about public school like I do. I side
with her always, never check or even care whether she's doing her homework,
grades don't matter as long as your happy, let her have as many days off as
she wants, she doesn't have to attend any school function if it doesn't
interest her etc... She may not have a choice to be in school, but I'll be
damned if I'm going to make it hell by imposing a bunch of arbitrary
expectations on her. I'm hoping that until her situation changes we can get
through the public school years with as little "trouble" as possible.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] unschoolers at school?
In a message dated 6/23/2004 2:43:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
damselfly@... writes:
So if an unschooling child decides to take some classes at a community
college or such, they are NOT unschooling
anymore?
What if a child is taking gymnastics, or music or ice skating lessons
because they want to learn those specific things, are they NOT
unschooling
either? What is the difference between going to school for one class to
learn something and taking some sort of lessons?
<<<<<
I would base it on 1) choice, 2) motivation, 3) expectations, and 4) right
to quit.
Is it the child's choice to take the class? Or did a parent say she *must*
have this class?
Why is he taking it? To fit in? Because he knows no other way to learn
(thinks that there *must* be a *teacher* in order to learn?)? Because it
sounds
interesting and it's another way to learn about this particular interest?
Because the teacher "knows his stuff" and is a great mentor?
What are the expectations? Good grades? Knowledge learned? Having fun?
Can she quit at any time? Or is there some mandate that she stay the
length
of the course even if it's not what she expected or wanted or is no longer
fun----even if it means "wasting" the money?
When the choices belong to *you*, I think it's unschooling. When
decisions
are made *for you, I think it's not.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jun 27, 2004, at 4:10 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
statistics. She didn't have much interest in either one of them,
really, but they were offered during the summer and they fulfill her
last two requirements for transferring to a university as a junior.
She WANTS to transfer and so these are a means to her own goal.
But - the "schooling" going on the classrooms is so very definitely not
"unschooling" - so - there ya go. She's an unschooler who has a dream
and wants to fulfill it and part of making her dream come true is to
take a couple of classes that she's not that interested in and in doing
that she is "schooling."
I can live with the paradox - I don't need clean black and white
answers on this.
For me the point isn't whether or not "she is an unschooler." The point
is that she's making her own choices and looking ahead toward how to
achieve her own goals.
The reason for talking about what is or what isn't "unschooling" is to
help us all in "getting it."
My kids don't need help in "getting it." They live it and aren't at all
hung up on what label is attached to them - they simply live a life
which allows them to learn in every way that works for them and they
expect that. They are aware that not everybody is as free as they are -
and they feel bad for those other people. For them it is a matter of
freedom as well as a matter of being responsible - they don't see
schooled kids as being allowed to be either free OR responsible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> When the choices belong to *you*, I think it's unschooling. WhenCollege gets more complicated than that - Roya is taking astronomy and
> decisions
> are made *for you, I think it's not.
statistics. She didn't have much interest in either one of them,
really, but they were offered during the summer and they fulfill her
last two requirements for transferring to a university as a junior.
She WANTS to transfer and so these are a means to her own goal.
But - the "schooling" going on the classrooms is so very definitely not
"unschooling" - so - there ya go. She's an unschooler who has a dream
and wants to fulfill it and part of making her dream come true is to
take a couple of classes that she's not that interested in and in doing
that she is "schooling."
I can live with the paradox - I don't need clean black and white
answers on this.
For me the point isn't whether or not "she is an unschooler." The point
is that she's making her own choices and looking ahead toward how to
achieve her own goals.
The reason for talking about what is or what isn't "unschooling" is to
help us all in "getting it."
My kids don't need help in "getting it." They live it and aren't at all
hung up on what label is attached to them - they simply live a life
which allows them to learn in every way that works for them and they
expect that. They are aware that not everybody is as free as they are -
and they feel bad for those other people. For them it is a matter of
freedom as well as a matter of being responsible - they don't see
schooled kids as being allowed to be either free OR responsible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Tina
"...let her have as many days off as she wants..."
How do you do this? What age/grade is your daughter? I have some
children in public school, and the whole attendance thing drives me
batty. (We are combination of education styles in our family, not by
choice.) I love to pull them out for a "free day" with me, swimming
at a friends, a homeschool activity that I'd like to include them in,
a picnic, shopping trip, etc. I find it VERY difficult to do this
and abide by the attendace requirements. If my high schoolers miss
five or more days unexcused, which all of the above reasons are, they
automatically fail the class that has accumulated that many
absences. The only things that are excused are doctor's visits and
the like. It's VERY frustrating...
Tina
How do you do this? What age/grade is your daughter? I have some
children in public school, and the whole attendance thing drives me
batty. (We are combination of education styles in our family, not by
choice.) I love to pull them out for a "free day" with me, swimming
at a friends, a homeschool activity that I'd like to include them in,
a picnic, shopping trip, etc. I find it VERY difficult to do this
and abide by the attendace requirements. If my high schoolers miss
five or more days unexcused, which all of the above reasons are, they
automatically fail the class that has accumulated that many
absences. The only things that are excused are doctor's visits and
the like. It's VERY frustrating...
Tina
Kimberly Fry
Are they required to present a doctor's note for every illness? I'd call and simply say they aren't feeling well today -- some very general statement -- and leave it at that, assuming that was the only way to get an excused absence. You don't have to say they are sick of school!
Kim
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
"...let her have as many days off as she wants..."
How do you do this? What age/grade is your daughter? I have some
children in public school, and the whole attendance thing drives me
batty. (We are combination of education styles in our family, not by
choice.) I love to pull them out for a "free day" with me, swimming
at a friends, a homeschool activity that I'd like to include them in,
a picnic, shopping trip, etc. I find it VERY difficult to do this
and abide by the attendace requirements. If my high schoolers miss
five or more days unexcused, which all of the above reasons are, they
automatically fail the class that has accumulated that many
absences. The only things that are excused are doctor's visits and
the like. It's VERY frustrating...
Tina
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote:
"...let her have as many days off as she wants..."
How do you do this? What age/grade is your daughter? I have some
children in public school, and the whole attendance thing drives me
batty. (We are combination of education styles in our family, not by
choice.) I love to pull them out for a "free day" with me, swimming
at a friends, a homeschool activity that I'd like to include them in,
a picnic, shopping trip, etc. I find it VERY difficult to do this
and abide by the attendace requirements. If my high schoolers miss
five or more days unexcused, which all of the above reasons are, they
automatically fail the class that has accumulated that many
absences. The only things that are excused are doctor's visits and
the like. It's VERY frustrating...
Tina
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jun 27, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Tina wrote:
I'm pretty sure that they are "allowed" 5 absences PER semester -- not
for the whole school year. Double check on that, of course. ;)
My youngest sister goes to the same high school that your DDs are
attending and believe me.... she's home fairly often and not always
with a doctor's note in hand. My mom has called her in absent to
attend something with me and my kids (like going to COSI or something).
Even if you have doctor notes, schools can give you a hassle -- when I
was a senior there I got pneumonia and was out of school for 3 weeks.
I had many notes from my doctor, and did ALL of my homework, and made
up every test that I had missed, yet they almost didn't let me graduate
because I had too many *excused* absences! D U H
I think you've seen this before, but Sandra's article "Public School on
Your Own Terms" came to mind. http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice I
think you can take advantage of a day off here and there for them to
enjoy some fun. ;) HTH
-Tracy-
> If my high schoolers miss five or more days unexcused, which all ofTina,
> the above reasons are, they automatically fail the class that has
> accumulated that many absences. The only things that are excused are
> doctor's visits and the like. It's VERY frustrating...
I'm pretty sure that they are "allowed" 5 absences PER semester -- not
for the whole school year. Double check on that, of course. ;)
My youngest sister goes to the same high school that your DDs are
attending and believe me.... she's home fairly often and not always
with a doctor's note in hand. My mom has called her in absent to
attend something with me and my kids (like going to COSI or something).
Even if you have doctor notes, schools can give you a hassle -- when I
was a senior there I got pneumonia and was out of school for 3 weeks.
I had many notes from my doctor, and did ALL of my homework, and made
up every test that I had missed, yet they almost didn't let me graduate
because I had too many *excused* absences! D U H
I think you've seen this before, but Sandra's article "Public School on
Your Own Terms" came to mind. http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice I
think you can take advantage of a day off here and there for them to
enjoy some fun. ;) HTH
-Tracy-
Tina
Kim
Great idea, but it doesn't work above the elementary level in our
district. Their strict attendance policies start at the Junior High
level. :( A doctor's note is required for an excused absense. It's
absurd, in my opinion, but what ya' gonna do?
Thanks - Tina
Great idea, but it doesn't work above the elementary level in our
district. Their strict attendance policies start at the Junior High
level. :( A doctor's note is required for an excused absense. It's
absurd, in my opinion, but what ya' gonna do?
Thanks - Tina
Tina
Tracey
You're right. It is per marking period, I just wasn't specific
enough in my post. Even still, those five days can be too few. Not
to mention that two tardies equal an absence, so that makes it even
trickier. I just think it's ridiculous. If the child is maintaining
passing grades, does all their work and stays up to speed why the
heck should it matter? I know how much time they "waste" so that
doesn't help me be any more willing to comply with their program.
I'm just a rebel at heart anyway. What's a girl to do? Only one
more year, and NO MORE children in Roseville Public Schools!
YIPPEE!!!
Thanks - Tina :)
You're right. It is per marking period, I just wasn't specific
enough in my post. Even still, those five days can be too few. Not
to mention that two tardies equal an absence, so that makes it even
trickier. I just think it's ridiculous. If the child is maintaining
passing grades, does all their work and stays up to speed why the
heck should it matter? I know how much time they "waste" so that
doesn't help me be any more willing to comply with their program.
I'm just a rebel at heart anyway. What's a girl to do? Only one
more year, and NO MORE children in Roseville Public Schools!
YIPPEE!!!
Thanks - Tina :)