Re: Bedtimes - from a current CA member
Christy Putnam
Hi everyone, I joined quite a while ago then took some time away from the
computer to try to reorganize my life. I just happened to start reading my
digests again and have to say 1st, I LOVE the "unschooling right this
minute" posts! It helps me see that we still have a lot of deschooling to
do. But that is for another post...
I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1 year old
on is sleep in general...I wont go into details as this would end up a
novel...but the replies of the kids going to bed whenever and the parents
saying up till they decide to go to bed makes me wonder something this
control freak (current member of CA) can't wrap her brain around. I do not
mean this to offend anyone, really just trying to understand the thought
process so maybe, just maybe I can get a step closer to graduating from CA.
Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? Because what
I see happening in this house (since the baby doesn't sleep well) is me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited for
my 11 yr old to go to bed...which given to him would be midnight or later...
Even just the thought of that makes me wanna cry...
~Sleep Deprived
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
computer to try to reorganize my life. I just happened to start reading my
digests again and have to say 1st, I LOVE the "unschooling right this
minute" posts! It helps me see that we still have a lot of deschooling to
do. But that is for another post...
I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1 year old
on is sleep in general...I wont go into details as this would end up a
novel...but the replies of the kids going to bed whenever and the parents
saying up till they decide to go to bed makes me wonder something this
control freak (current member of CA) can't wrap her brain around. I do not
mean this to offend anyone, really just trying to understand the thought
process so maybe, just maybe I can get a step closer to graduating from CA.
Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? Because what
I see happening in this house (since the baby doesn't sleep well) is me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited for
my 11 yr old to go to bed...which given to him would be midnight or later...
Even just the thought of that makes me wanna cry...
~Sleep Deprived
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
Deb Lewis
***I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1 year
old
on is sleep in general***
List members might be able to give you more ideas if you describe a
typical bedtime routine, if there is such a thing.<g>
When Dylan was little I didn't have a bedtime. Instead I watched for
signs of sleepiness. When he would stand and look at something and rub
his little head or twirl his hair round his finger, I knew he was getting
tired.
I didn't tell him it was time for bed and I didn't make him leave his
toys but I started to quiet the house. I dimmed the lights, turned down
the TV, changed into my pj's.
Sometimes I would ask "can I hold you?" and we would snuggle on the sofa
or in the rocking chair. He might bring a toy or two with him. I would
talk quietly.
Dylan nursed until he was four and very often when we were close and the
house was quiet and he was tired he'd want to nurse. That almost always
eased him into sleep. If I still had things I wanted to do once he was
asleep I'd put him in our bed or on the sofa and collect him when I went
to bed.
There are some things about traditional bedtime that set a mom and kid up
for struggle. Kids don't want to leave the action or leave their stuff.
So easing a little one into sleep where the action (at a quieter and
dimmer level) and stuff is can mean a more peaceful transition to sleep.
When bedtime means a child has to be alone in his room in the dark and
the child wants to be in the light with people he loves, that's a
struggle. Kids can sleep anywhere, on a cushion under the table, in a
chair, on the sofa, in mom's bed, in mom's arms. There's no reason a
child needs to be in his own room for sleep.
When the mom decides the child should sleep and the child isn't ready for
sleep yet, that's a struggle. It might not be as convenient to the mom
to watch for signs and ease baby into the quiet and into sleep but it's
more peaceful, less stressful for both.
A lot of struggle comes from a mom who wants things to be a certain way
and a baby who has a different idea. What is your baby's idea of a good
way to fall asleep? He might not be able to tell you, but you can find
out.
***me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited
for
my 11 yr old to go to bed... ***
Is there some reason your eleven year old can't be up without you? If
he knows he can come and get you if he needs you, and if he has access to
snacks or whatever else he needs can't he just be up until he's ready to
go to bed?
Dylan was eight or so when he began to enjoy being up late. I told him
he could come get me if he needed anything. I asked him to please stay
in the house, I left snacks in convenient places and asked him to turn
out the lights when he went to bed.
***Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? ***
By this I think you mean - Do the kids go wild, disregard their parents
and do just whatever destructive awful, thing they can think of ? -
If there are kids who would go wild they are probably kids who've had a
long power struggle with their parents. If kids have felt powerless -
have been told when to sleep and when to wake, have been told what to eat
and what not to eat, have been told what they can do, etc. then they
might be hungry for power and it might be expressed by doing all those
things a parent has restricted. If a kid has felt disregarded,
disrespected by having his desires repeatedly turned down or dismissed he
might not see the value in regard and respect for others. If this
scenario exists it's because it was systematically constructed by the
parents, even though they didn't want to construct such a thing and
didn't know they were doing it. Unschooling can end the destructive
power struggle between parents and children.
When there is no power struggle there's no negative implication behind
the idea of a kid running the household. My kid could absolutely run
this household. He's responsible and confident. But we never think of
it like that do we? We never think that one of the things we hope as
parents is that a kid could one day run a household! (in all it's good
implications). We worry that if we let up on our controls for a minute
our kids will "run all over us." Bummer.
Why would we want to think of our kids like that? Our kids are nice
people.
And if you're a family then the household is as much your son's as yours.
Why shouldn't he have power and freedom there? When no power struggle
exists kids don't go crazy and do terrible things the minute their
parents aren't looking. There's no reason for them to go crazy.
So, if you have concerns about what your eleven year old would do if you
went to bed and left him up alone, talk about those here and get ideas
for changing the dynamic in your house so that you can feel ok going to
bed and he can feel happily secure staying up by himself.
Deb Lewis
old
on is sleep in general***
List members might be able to give you more ideas if you describe a
typical bedtime routine, if there is such a thing.<g>
When Dylan was little I didn't have a bedtime. Instead I watched for
signs of sleepiness. When he would stand and look at something and rub
his little head or twirl his hair round his finger, I knew he was getting
tired.
I didn't tell him it was time for bed and I didn't make him leave his
toys but I started to quiet the house. I dimmed the lights, turned down
the TV, changed into my pj's.
Sometimes I would ask "can I hold you?" and we would snuggle on the sofa
or in the rocking chair. He might bring a toy or two with him. I would
talk quietly.
Dylan nursed until he was four and very often when we were close and the
house was quiet and he was tired he'd want to nurse. That almost always
eased him into sleep. If I still had things I wanted to do once he was
asleep I'd put him in our bed or on the sofa and collect him when I went
to bed.
There are some things about traditional bedtime that set a mom and kid up
for struggle. Kids don't want to leave the action or leave their stuff.
So easing a little one into sleep where the action (at a quieter and
dimmer level) and stuff is can mean a more peaceful transition to sleep.
When bedtime means a child has to be alone in his room in the dark and
the child wants to be in the light with people he loves, that's a
struggle. Kids can sleep anywhere, on a cushion under the table, in a
chair, on the sofa, in mom's bed, in mom's arms. There's no reason a
child needs to be in his own room for sleep.
When the mom decides the child should sleep and the child isn't ready for
sleep yet, that's a struggle. It might not be as convenient to the mom
to watch for signs and ease baby into the quiet and into sleep but it's
more peaceful, less stressful for both.
A lot of struggle comes from a mom who wants things to be a certain way
and a baby who has a different idea. What is your baby's idea of a good
way to fall asleep? He might not be able to tell you, but you can find
out.
***me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited
for
my 11 yr old to go to bed... ***
Is there some reason your eleven year old can't be up without you? If
he knows he can come and get you if he needs you, and if he has access to
snacks or whatever else he needs can't he just be up until he's ready to
go to bed?
Dylan was eight or so when he began to enjoy being up late. I told him
he could come get me if he needed anything. I asked him to please stay
in the house, I left snacks in convenient places and asked him to turn
out the lights when he went to bed.
***Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? ***
By this I think you mean - Do the kids go wild, disregard their parents
and do just whatever destructive awful, thing they can think of ? -
If there are kids who would go wild they are probably kids who've had a
long power struggle with their parents. If kids have felt powerless -
have been told when to sleep and when to wake, have been told what to eat
and what not to eat, have been told what they can do, etc. then they
might be hungry for power and it might be expressed by doing all those
things a parent has restricted. If a kid has felt disregarded,
disrespected by having his desires repeatedly turned down or dismissed he
might not see the value in regard and respect for others. If this
scenario exists it's because it was systematically constructed by the
parents, even though they didn't want to construct such a thing and
didn't know they were doing it. Unschooling can end the destructive
power struggle between parents and children.
When there is no power struggle there's no negative implication behind
the idea of a kid running the household. My kid could absolutely run
this household. He's responsible and confident. But we never think of
it like that do we? We never think that one of the things we hope as
parents is that a kid could one day run a household! (in all it's good
implications). We worry that if we let up on our controls for a minute
our kids will "run all over us." Bummer.
Why would we want to think of our kids like that? Our kids are nice
people.
And if you're a family then the household is as much your son's as yours.
Why shouldn't he have power and freedom there? When no power struggle
exists kids don't go crazy and do terrible things the minute their
parents aren't looking. There's no reason for them to go crazy.
So, if you have concerns about what your eleven year old would do if you
went to bed and left him up alone, talk about those here and get ideas
for changing the dynamic in your house so that you can feel ok going to
bed and he can feel happily secure staying up by himself.
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
<<because I waited for my 11yo to go to sleep>>
No one here is advocating doing anything to make yourself tired and cranky. Having a toddler is a full time job and you need rest. What we do advocate is thinking outside the box so that as much as possible, EVERYONE is happy and gets their needs met. You might try simply being more flexible and seeing what happens. You may not NEED to stay up with an 11yo or you may. You won't know unless you try. If you try something and it doesn't work well, see where the kinks are, see if there is a way you can work them out.
Example: I am 42 and pregnant with my 6th child. I'm wore out. My dh travels ALOT. Last night, I really, really needed to go to sleep (this was at 8:30). So I asked my 12yo if he would mind helping the younger kids to bed. He agreed and then I talked with my younger ones (ages, 9, 7 and 6). I talked to them about how tired I've been and needing to rest. We talked about when we thought would be a good time for everyone to go to bed. Then I went to sleep. I heard no fussing, no arguing. When I got up this morning, everything was turned off and the kids were still asleep in their beds.
We just got back from a stockshow this last weekend where all the showers sleep in the big barns with their animals. The lights stay on and the bigger kids tend to stay up all night talking and playing around. My little 9yo went to bed before 10 every night with zero prompting from me.
Julie S.
No one here is advocating doing anything to make yourself tired and cranky. Having a toddler is a full time job and you need rest. What we do advocate is thinking outside the box so that as much as possible, EVERYONE is happy and gets their needs met. You might try simply being more flexible and seeing what happens. You may not NEED to stay up with an 11yo or you may. You won't know unless you try. If you try something and it doesn't work well, see where the kinks are, see if there is a way you can work them out.
Example: I am 42 and pregnant with my 6th child. I'm wore out. My dh travels ALOT. Last night, I really, really needed to go to sleep (this was at 8:30). So I asked my 12yo if he would mind helping the younger kids to bed. He agreed and then I talked with my younger ones (ages, 9, 7 and 6). I talked to them about how tired I've been and needing to rest. We talked about when we thought would be a good time for everyone to go to bed. Then I went to sleep. I heard no fussing, no arguing. When I got up this morning, everything was turned off and the kids were still asleep in their beds.
We just got back from a stockshow this last weekend where all the showers sleep in the big barns with their animals. The lights stay on and the bigger kids tend to stay up all night talking and playing around. My little 9yo went to bed before 10 every night with zero prompting from me.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christy Putnam <personal_balance@...>
Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:45 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Bedtimes - from a current CA member
> Hi everyone, I joined quite a while ago then took some time away
> from the
> computer to try to reorganize my life. I just happened to start
> reading my
> digests again and have to say 1st, I LOVE the "unschooling right this
> minute" posts! It helps me see that we still have a lot of
> deschooling to
> do. But that is for another post...
>
> I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1
> year old
> on is sleep in general...I wont go into details as this would end
> up a
> novel...but the replies of the kids going to bed whenever and the
> parentssaying up till they decide to go to bed makes me wonder
> something this
> control freak (current member of CA) can't wrap her brain around.
> I do not
> mean this to offend anyone, really just trying to understand the
> thoughtprocess so maybe, just maybe I can get a step closer to
> graduating from CA.
> Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here?
> Because what
> I see happening in this house (since the baby doesn't sleep well)
> is me
> being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I
> waited for
> my 11 yr old to go to bed...which given to him would be midnight
> or later...
>
> Even just the thought of that makes me wanna cry...
>
> ~Sleep Deprived
>
>
>
> Christy Putnam
> Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
> Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
>
> http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
>
> "Go confidently in the direction of your
> dreams. Live the life you have always
> imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
S Drag-teine
Well, let me say my one year old does run the household much as my son did
when he was that age. Infants don't see beyond their needs so we need to
meet theirs until they can. Meeting their needs make them feel important and
secure which is important at that age. We (in my house) believe in family
bed so my son slept with us until he asked for his own bed around the age of
two - I see my daughter around the same age or sooner then that or asking to
sleep with Quentin.
If that isn't an option you have to find something that works for you - all
I know is everyone (outside my house) said I had to get Quentin so start
sleeping in his own bed at 6 months and him screaming in his crib and
getting up and down and me getting no sleep didn't work for me.
A girlfriend of mine put a mattress next to her bed for her kids that needed
to be closer to their parents. There are lots of theories but the most
important one is the one that works for you. So no matter what anyone says
do what is best for you and your child.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christy Putnam
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Bedtimes - from a current CA member
Hi everyone, I joined quite a while ago then took some time away from the
computer to try to reorganize my life. I just happened to start reading my
digests again and have to say 1st, I LOVE the "unschooling right this
minute" posts! It helps me see that we still have a lot of deschooling to
do. But that is for another post...
I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1 year old
on is sleep in general...I wont go into details as this would end up a
novel...but the replies of the kids going to bed whenever and the parents
saying up till they decide to go to bed makes me wonder something this
control freak (current member of CA) can't wrap her brain around. I do not
mean this to offend anyone, really just trying to understand the thought
process so maybe, just maybe I can get a step closer to graduating from CA.
Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? Because what
I see happening in this house (since the baby doesn't sleep well) is me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited for
my 11 yr old to go to bed...which given to him would be midnight or later...
Even just the thought of that makes me wanna cry...
~Sleep Deprived
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
Yahoo! Groups Links
when he was that age. Infants don't see beyond their needs so we need to
meet theirs until they can. Meeting their needs make them feel important and
secure which is important at that age. We (in my house) believe in family
bed so my son slept with us until he asked for his own bed around the age of
two - I see my daughter around the same age or sooner then that or asking to
sleep with Quentin.
If that isn't an option you have to find something that works for you - all
I know is everyone (outside my house) said I had to get Quentin so start
sleeping in his own bed at 6 months and him screaming in his crib and
getting up and down and me getting no sleep didn't work for me.
A girlfriend of mine put a mattress next to her bed for her kids that needed
to be closer to their parents. There are lots of theories but the most
important one is the one that works for you. So no matter what anyone says
do what is best for you and your child.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christy Putnam
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Bedtimes - from a current CA member
Hi everyone, I joined quite a while ago then took some time away from the
computer to try to reorganize my life. I just happened to start reading my
digests again and have to say 1st, I LOVE the "unschooling right this
minute" posts! It helps me see that we still have a lot of deschooling to
do. But that is for another post...
I saw this thread on bedtimes and something we struggle with my 1 year old
on is sleep in general...I wont go into details as this would end up a
novel...but the replies of the kids going to bed whenever and the parents
saying up till they decide to go to bed makes me wonder something this
control freak (current member of CA) can't wrap her brain around. I do not
mean this to offend anyone, really just trying to understand the thought
process so maybe, just maybe I can get a step closer to graduating from CA.
Do the kids run the household or am I missing something here? Because what
I see happening in this house (since the baby doesn't sleep well) is me
being much more tired and cranky than I already am just because I waited for
my 11 yr old to go to bed...which given to him would be midnight or later...
Even just the thought of that makes me wanna cry...
~Sleep Deprived
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
Yahoo! Groups Links