Ren Allen

"How can you get along in a doggy-dog
world like this one without a formal education?"

Ok, I'm being cheeky here, so don't be offended. But YOU had a formal
education and it sounds like it didn't serve you very well. You
managed to graduate (you said "barely got by") and not know that it's
"dog-eat-dog world"?
Ok, kidding aside, it sounds like you struggled through school. Has
that experience left you whole? Has it left you passionate about
learning, full of curiousity and interest in life? Doesn't sound that
way.

Unschooling can't work for your dd until YOU decide to unschool. You
haven't done that yet. Unschooling doesn't work if a parent waits for
a child to show some spark while pushing or worrying or seeing their
child as doing "nothing". Which isn't true at all.

What is she watching on television? Watch it WITH her. See the world
through HER eyes and see her as the wonderful human being she truly
is...right now, today.

YOU have to decide to trust unschooling, before it can work. You don't
have that yet....so you don't know if unschooling works for her or
not. It will, I can promise you that much, if you will first start to
trust her.

So far, it sounds like all the schooling you've given her has caused a
lot of damage. She's trying to hide from your coercive methods by
doing things she likes, but now you're seeing her as "less than", so
joyful learning can't even begin to unfold. More school isn't going to
heal that. She's trying to heal, but you need to start trusting her.
Trust that her desire to do "nothing", is a desire to heal. Trust that
she is getting what she needs right now and start creating an
interesting life of your own!
Focusing on developing your OWN learning/interests and passions is the
best way to show her how joyful learning works. Once she trusts that
your invitations to join in aren't followed by coercion or
disappointment, she'll be more inclined to happily try new things.
Until you heal the relationship, re-gain her trust, the learning won't
work the way you're reading about here.

Fix the relationship between the two of you first, then joyful
learning will simply be unavoidable!:)

Ren

Ren

[email protected]

Renn,
Yes, you are right. I had a "formal" education, and was bored to tears with
it. I was more interested in my boyfriend, and getting OUT of school than
staying in.
My 12 yo tells me she LIKED school. Homeschooling was not something she cared
to do. But her father and I decided that this was best. The schools here are
no good. Danger wise, and education wise. The school had done alot of damage
to her. This is where I think alot of the problem lies. They had her in a
special needs class for reading difficulties, she couldn't pass the MCAS, so they
put her in extra help for that. And her Math grades were poor. She likes school
because of the socialization aspect.
I have two other children at home. A 15 yo 10th grader and a 7 yo 2nd grader.
They both thrive on books and "doing schoolwork"...but my 12 yo is different.
Can you unschool one, and not the other two??(hope that is not a dumb
question).
I guess my biggest fear with Unschooling(as I am sure it probably was with
others at some point) is what if they are out in the real world, and they cannot
even do something as simple as figure out how to pay for things at a store,
or write a simple letter, or wotk at a job and be able to count money and give
back change....or know the History of our Country....hmmm..actaully now that I
am saying this out loud, I will assume that these skills will be learned
since they would see it in our every day lives.
Pondering now..
Thank you!!
Cindy





Ok, I'm being cheeky here, so don't be offended. But YOU had a formal
education and it sounds like it didn't serve you very well. You
managed to graduate (you said "barely got by") and not know that it's
"dog-eat-dog world"?
Ok, kidding aside, it sounds like you struggled through school. Has
that experience left you whole? Has it left you passionate about
learning, full of curiousity and interest in life? Doesn't sound that
way.

Unschooling can't work for your dd until YOU decide to unschool. You
haven't done that yet. Unschooling doesn't work if a parent waits for
a child to show some spark while pushing or worrying or seeing their
child as doing "nothing". Which isn't true at all.

What is she watching on television? Watch it WITH her. See the world
through HER eyes and see her as the wonderful human being she truly
is...right now, today.

YOU have to decide to trust unschooling, before it can work. You don't
have that yet....so you don't know if unschooling works for her or
not. It will, I can promise you that much, if you will first start to
trust her.

So far, it sounds like all the schooling you've given her has caused a
lot of damage. She's trying to hide from your coercive methods by
doing things she likes, but now you're seeing her as "less than", so
joyful learning can't even begin to unfold. More school isn't going to
heal that. She's trying to heal, but you need to start trusting her.
Trust that her desire to do "nothing", is a desire to heal. Trust that
she is getting what she needs right now and start creating an
interesting life of your own!
Focusing on developing your OWN learning/interests and passions is the
best way to show her how joyful learning works. Once she trusts that
your invitations to join in aren't followed by coercion or
disappointment, she'll be more inclined to happily try new things.
Until you heal the relationship, re-gain her trust, the learning won't
work the way you're reading about here.

Fix the relationship between the two of you first, then joyful
learning will simply be unavoidable!:)

Ren

Ren


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea L. Roher

On 21 Sep 2005 at 8:10, pscs@... wrote:

> My 12 yo tells me she LIKED school. Homeschooling was not something she cared
> to do. But her father and I decided that this was best. The schools here are
> no good. Danger wise, and education wise. The school had done alot of damage
> to her. This is where I think alot of the problem lies. They had her in a
> special needs class for reading difficulties, she couldn't pass the MCAS, so they
> put her in extra help for that. And her Math grades were poor. She likes school
> because of the socialization aspect.

There are many other ways of getting the socialization aspect without
the harm (scouts, ballet, sports, 4H, IMing on the computer,
telephone calls, etc.)... your daughter might even have some
suggestions herself. :)

> I have two other children at home. A 15 yo 10th grader and a 7 yo 2nd grader.
> They both thrive on books and "doing schoolwork"...but my 12 yo is different.
> Can you unschool one, and not the other two??(hope that is not a dumb
> question).

This is the main reason I wanted to reply. If you are allowing your
children to do what they choose to do as regards schooling, then you
are unschooling. It doesn't matter if that means your children are
working through schoolbooks, choosing to take classes in a more
traditional school, or just "playing" all day. I believe it >IS<
possible (and likely very damaging) to take a different approach to
how much you trust each child to plan their activities (thereby
unschooling one but forcing another to do lessons), but don't for a
minute think that unschooling means you have to keep an interested
child AWAY from activities that look more like school to you.

Does that answer that question?

> I guess my biggest fear with Unschooling(as I am sure it probably was with
> others at some point) is what if they are out in the real world, and they cannot
> even do something as simple as figure out how to pay for things at a store,
> or write a simple letter, or wotk at a job and be able to count money and give
> back change....or know the History of our Country....hmmm..actaully now that I
> am saying this out loud, I will assume that these skills will be learned
> since they would see it in our every day lives.

Exactly! The biggest advantage of unschooling, in my opinion, is
that it teaches children HOW to learn and leaves their DESIRE to
learn intact. If somehow your child manages to get to adulthood
missing some important skill, they will at minimum have the knowledge
of how to gain that skill for themselves when they need it.