Ren Allen

"I am curious though, as to what to do in the case of a child with
executive
functioning disorder that wants pets. If left to her own, she
would "forget"
about the pets and they would die. Gentle reminders are not enough to
get her
to respond if she is busy with something else. Leaving it until later
means it
gets forgotten (even if she promises to remember--because she can't.)"


I am curious why a child with a disorder, that is apparently unable
to cope with caring for an animal, would have any expectation of
caring for the animal?
My only question would be about whether *I* was capable of caring for
the animal and we would joyfully approach the care of the animal
together.
You wouldn't expect a child with a mental disability to develop at
the same rate an "average" (yeah, I can't stand that word...but for
lack of a better one...) child. I don't expect a four year old to
have the same capabilities as a 15 year old, I don't expect a 20 year
old to have the same understanding as a 50 year old etc..

If someone in my home has a challenge, we work together to come up
with a solution.

If a child in my home wanted a pet badly, but I knew they were unable
to care for said animal, my only question would be about whether I
was able to assist.
It's not hard to care for a small pet really....I guess the joy for
that individual would probably outweigh any potential effort on my
part.
It depends.

A disorder should be MORE cause for leeway on the parent's part, not
less.

I often try to weigh decisions against the background of death. It
works for me.......If _________ died next year, would this issue be
worth making a fuss over? IF _________died next month/next
week/tomorrow...
Wow..that really helps me see how petty some of my greivances are and
how easy it is to bring joy into our home.

Ren

Tina

***I often try to weigh decisions against the background of death. It
works for me.......If _________ died next year, would this issue be
worth making a fuss over? IF _________died next month/next
week/tomorrow...
Wow..that really helps me see how petty some of my greivances are and
how easy it is to bring joy into our home.***

Ren

Thanks for sharing that concept. What a vivid point! Well taken...

Tina

herbshed

> Uh huh---and Mom does nothing?
> They are not slaves. They are children.

Mom does plenty, believe me! Mom gardens, then cans-freezes-dries-processes
the organic food for her children. She sews their clothes, and cuts their
hair. She's their on-call nurse. She milks, butchers, grooms, trims
hooves/nails, assists in labor (sometimes in uteruses up to her elbows!) of
the organically raised livestock that her children love, she builds fence,
paints and roofs the house, she chauffeurs, and the list goes on.... But
most of all she is their loving Mother who would literally give her life for
her children. She's not out to be their buddy (of which they will have many
of over the course of their lifetime), but to be their Mother.
And Mom is doing this with ruptured discs, spinal stenosis, nerve root
compressions, and torn ligaments and epilepsy.

> What they're learning is that, as an adult, you have NO
> responsibilities----especially of you can make someone else do
> everything for you!

What they are learning is that, as a Mother, it is also Moms responsibility
to teach her children the domestic and life skill they need in order to
become productive adults, rather than condescending slugs. And they are also
learning how to delegate. But alas, some women apparently don't think it's
necessary, or else are afraid it might "upset" their child to request that
s/he contribute to the family in anyway other than being a pretty plaything.
So once again, it's left up to the government to create organizations to do
the "parenting".

And I wasn't aware that slaves are involved in several 4-H projects, are in
theatre, play soccer and baseball, go camping/hiking/boating, that take
tap/ballet/jazz/voice lessons, have sleepovers, go to movies with friends,
have video gaming parties, etc. Wow! No wonder there was so much upset
about the Civil War!

~S~

herbshed

> I often try to weigh decisions against the background of death. It
> works for me.......If _________ died next year, would this issue be
> worth making a fuss over? IF _________died next month/next
> week/tomorrow...

What a wake-up call! That statement really hit home with me.
Thank you for sharing it.

~S~

Pam Sorooshian

On Jul 21, 2005, at 8:06 PM, herbshed wrote:

> Mom does plenty, believe me! Mom gardens, then
> cans-freezes-dries-processes
> the organic food for her children. She sews their clothes, and cuts
> their
> hair. She's their on-call nurse. She milks, butchers, grooms, trims
> hooves/nails, assists in labor (sometimes in uteruses up to her
> elbows!) of
> the organically raised livestock that her children love, she builds
> fence,
> paints and roofs the house, she chauffeurs, and the list goes on....
> But
> most of all she is their loving Mother who would literally give her
> life for
> her children.

Sounds like a very difficult life - not even remotely the kind of
lifestyle that I'd enjoy. I'm assuming that this is YOUR choice to live
this way?

> She's not out to be their buddy (of which they will have many
> of over the course of their lifetime), but to be their Mother.

You might want to read a wonderful book called "The Parent-Teen
Breakthrough," by Myra Kirschenbaum. My goal, in fact, IS to be their
"buddy" - we'll live together as parent and child for such a few short
years - after that we'll ALL be adults. My sisters and I were so close
to our mom - the older we got, the more we were better and better
"buddies." Grown kids and their parents can have the deepest most
wonderful friendships - adult to adult friendships - possible. And that
starts developing in childhood - it doesn't just spring into being on
their 18th birthday.


> And Mom is doing this with ruptured discs, spinal stenosis, nerve root
> compressions, and torn ligaments and epilepsy.

And a serious case of "martyrdom" as well?

>
>> What they're learning is that, as an adult, you have NO
>> responsibilities----especially of you can make someone else do
>> everything for you!
>
> What they are learning is that, as a Mother, it is also Moms
> responsibility
> to teach her children the domestic and life skill they need in order to
> become productive adults,

I'm 53 years old and I live a GREAT life and I don't know how to do
ANYTHING on your list and I have no interest in any of them, either.
Are you assuming your kids' choices will be the same as yours? Are you
trying to make sure of that?

It isn't rocket science to wash dishes and do laundry and dust and
vacuum. If your kids need their entire childhoods to learn how to pick
up after themselves or do a few household chores, what can I say?

> rather than condescending slugs.

Because that's the alternative? I'm guessing you didn't really mean
"condescending" since that insult didn't even make sense -
condescending means to lower yourself to somebody else's level or to
speak in a patronizingly superior tone.

> And they are also
> learning how to delegate. But alas, some women apparently don't think
> it's
> necessary, or else are afraid it might "upset" their child to request
> that
> s/he contribute to the family in anyway other than being a pretty
> plaything.

LOL -- you've missed the boat. You probably won't read more and with an
open enough mind to catch on, but you've missed some big huge critical
part of what people here are talking about AND you've missed it that
people here have kids who are VOLUNTARILY helpful and who learn all
kinds of things without anybody making them do it. I know these people
and their kids and you don't - so I can understand skepticism, but
you're here on this list with people who are living a pretty extreme
alternative lifestyle -- instead of insisting on your ways, which are
totally conventional parenting methods, same advice we've all read a
million times in parenting books and magazines, you might want to just
be quiet and read for understanding - maybe challenge yourself to try
to figure out how it is that people who do NOT do what you think is
essential do NOT end up with those "condescending slugs" but end up
with energetic, responsible, kind, competent and capable, and
eager-to-learn more grown kids.

On the other hand, I'm thinking of getting t-shirts that say "SLUG" for
my kids - my kids are so NOT sluggish that people would consider it a
great joke.

> So once again, it's left up to the government to create organizations
> to do
> the "parenting".

Who are you talking to? People here don't have kids who are being
parented by the government. Again, you might want to read more, talk
less, until you at least know something about the people you are
insulting.

>
> And I wasn't aware that slaves are involved in several 4-H projects,
> are in
> theatre, play soccer and baseball, go camping/hiking/boating, that take
> tap/ballet/jazz/voice lessons, have sleepovers, go to movies with
> friends,
> have video gaming parties, etc.

Well - there are LOTS of kids who are made to do activities like you
listed. I've been a 4H leader and a Girl Scout leader and my husband
coaches soccer. We've HAD the experience of parents forcing kids into
activities. It happens a LOT.

You're word-wrestling INSTEAD of reading for meaning. People are
talking about a fascinating and very different way of living in a
family. It is NOT at all what you seem to think. It isn't just an
excuse for not engaging with our kids. It is FAR from treating our kids
like cute little playthings. It is VERY far from having no principles
to live by, in fact. It is a DIFFERENT way of helping our kids learn
and grow and develop and become mature and capable and competent and
FREE in their hearts and minds to make their own life decisions.


-pam