Subject: RE: behind ps kids
Hilary Jackson
Boy do I need to read and ponder on this thread!!
I have an 11.5 yr old son who I pulled out of a waldorf school last july.
He is still very 'unmotivated' to do anything much at all. Never finishes
anything he starts. Gets all fired up about doing somethng, but then it
never lasts.
All he would do if he had totally his choice would be to watch movies, read
books and play computer games. Can;t get him to do maths. He complains
that we aren;t doing enough fo anything. He feels "let down" in some way by
me,..
I guess at least he does want to read!
I am finding it excruciatingly hard to let go.
I have a nearly 3 yr old who really annoys my elder son alot ( I mean he
gets annoyed with him alot, rather than the 3yr old being inherently
annoying... althjo sometimes he just is!!)
I have this enormous pressure building inside of me.... some sdays I think
"god, I am doign the righ tthing, sjhould I send him back to school".
Daniel (11.5 yr old) is lonely, I know he needs more friends around. Hi
sbest friend has just moved away. He doe have activisites with other
h/schoolers on a tues and on a friday as regular actitvities,.and he loves
those days. The rest fo the days he woudl just stay in in pj's all day.
I am feelign like I am failign him, and that he is failign himself too.
I know I am in some really unhealthy mindsets.... and I am really struggling
here.
I am an unschooler at heart...and I am finding it hard to trust.
Question a) what is the conversation I need to have with myself and b) what
is the conversation I need to have with him???
Thanks all - I would sure appreciate some wisdom here.
Hilary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have an 11.5 yr old son who I pulled out of a waldorf school last july.
He is still very 'unmotivated' to do anything much at all. Never finishes
anything he starts. Gets all fired up about doing somethng, but then it
never lasts.
All he would do if he had totally his choice would be to watch movies, read
books and play computer games. Can;t get him to do maths. He complains
that we aren;t doing enough fo anything. He feels "let down" in some way by
me,..
I guess at least he does want to read!
I am finding it excruciatingly hard to let go.
I have a nearly 3 yr old who really annoys my elder son alot ( I mean he
gets annoyed with him alot, rather than the 3yr old being inherently
annoying... althjo sometimes he just is!!)
I have this enormous pressure building inside of me.... some sdays I think
"god, I am doign the righ tthing, sjhould I send him back to school".
Daniel (11.5 yr old) is lonely, I know he needs more friends around. Hi
sbest friend has just moved away. He doe have activisites with other
h/schoolers on a tues and on a friday as regular actitvities,.and he loves
those days. The rest fo the days he woudl just stay in in pj's all day.
I am feelign like I am failign him, and that he is failign himself too.
I know I am in some really unhealthy mindsets.... and I am really struggling
here.
I am an unschooler at heart...and I am finding it hard to trust.
Question a) what is the conversation I need to have with myself and b) what
is the conversation I need to have with him???
Thanks all - I would sure appreciate some wisdom here.
Hilary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
You need to read more - consider the next 4 months May, June, July, and
August to be YOUR learning months. Read a lot about learning and about
unschooling. And focus on having a good time with your kids - have FUN
- watch movies or play games and get out of the house. Get a pet rat
<G>. Go for bike rides. Go fishing. It doesn't matter what you do - let
your older son take the lead as much as possible and you be aware of
what lights up his eyes.
I'm saying do this for four months - summer vacation - because you
can't really do it while you're still worrying about whether or not he
is learning. So just stop - take a vacation from that concern - don't
WORRY or think at all about whether or not he is learning. Focus on
having a good time - a good life - together.
Reading:
Frank Smith - "The Book of Learning and Forgetting"
Sandra Dodd - "SandraDodd.com" Everything on her website about
unschooling - by her and others.
That's enough to start with.
-pam
August to be YOUR learning months. Read a lot about learning and about
unschooling. And focus on having a good time with your kids - have FUN
- watch movies or play games and get out of the house. Get a pet rat
<G>. Go for bike rides. Go fishing. It doesn't matter what you do - let
your older son take the lead as much as possible and you be aware of
what lights up his eyes.
I'm saying do this for four months - summer vacation - because you
can't really do it while you're still worrying about whether or not he
is learning. So just stop - take a vacation from that concern - don't
WORRY or think at all about whether or not he is learning. Focus on
having a good time - a good life - together.
Reading:
Frank Smith - "The Book of Learning and Forgetting"
Sandra Dodd - "SandraDodd.com" Everything on her website about
unschooling - by her and others.
That's enough to start with.
-pam
On May 5, 2005, at 3:31 PM, Hilary Jackson wrote:
> Question a) what is the conversation I need to have with myself and b)
> what
> is the conversation I need to have with him???
>
> Thanks all - I would sure appreciate some wisdom here.
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<All he would do if he had totally his choice would be to watch movies,
read books and play computer games. >>>>
If he is finishing the books and the movies and the games then you can take
heart that he can finish things when he is interested in them.
Why can't he do only these things for now?
<<<<< Can;t get him to do maths.>>>>>
Deschooling is like playing Snakes and Ladders. Every time you try to "get
him" to do something with the point of view that it is necessary academics,
you slide back a ways in the deschooling process. So even though he has been
out of school since July, he has probably not completed his process - and if
you are still holding on to schoolish ideas and ideals, then you cannot help
but interfere with it.
<<<< He complains
that we aren;t doing enough fo anything. He feels "let down" in some way by
me,.. >>>>>
Would he be complaining if he was allowed to totally have his choice to
"watch movies, read books and play computer games"? If these enjoyable
activities are being limited, or there is a pressure on him from your
disapproval of these things as not valuable enough (compared to math - check
the games he is playing; bet there is tons of math and logic) he may be
looking around at the rest of his time and feeling that it is empty.
However if he is truly free and supported to do all that he really likes
without qualitative judgments coming from the other folk in his life, then
maybe he will find his days being more full.
<<<<I guess at least he does want to read!>>>>
One way for you to get a clue to his interests is to notice what he is
reading. Maybe there are other related things that you can strew in his path
that spring from those books.
<<<<<I am finding it excruciatingly hard to let go.>>>>
Keep at it, you will get there! Every chance you get to make a choice
between the controlling option and the less controlling option, choose the
latter - choose to trust.
I do a lot of biting my tongue when I am tempted to "direct" Jayn somehow -
still crops up at times. My DH reminds me to trust if I am slipping into
that mode - from being tired, or premenstrual, or distracted. It does take
practice to let go and just observe instead of making suggestions.
Try just reflecting back his feelings to him - commiserating - when he
begins to complain about not being directed by you. "Sounds like you feel a
bit bored." Then just stop - the hardest part is *not* adding "Why don't you
....." Accept any of his ideas for what he might do next with equanimity. He
might suggest activities he thinks you will approve of (more than movies
etc). Try "Sure, if that's what you feel like doing." He might try to test
you by choosing activities he feels you won't tolerate any more of (more
gaming etc.) Try "Sure, if that's what you feel like doing." Take your own
emotions out of the interaction if you can.
This is really just temporary - for the deschooling/trust building time.
Eventually you will both be at a point when you can make a suggestion
without the insidious "sneak in the academics" idea lurking in the
background of both of your minds to sully your interactions. The real goal
is for you to be at a place where he is not *asking permission* to do
anything, but *announcing his plans/desires* and requesting any
help/driving/space/suggestions he may need to accomplish them.
You can model this also. "I'm going out to the garden for while...I'm going
to bake brownies...I'm going to take these sandwiches outside to the patio.
Want to come along?"
<<<<Daniel (11.5 yr old) is lonely, I know he needs more friends around. Hi
sbest friend has just moved away. He doe have activisites with other
h/schoolers on a tues and on a friday as regular actitvities,.and he loves
those days.>>>>>
Needing friends is another issue from the idea of how he "should" be
spending his time, and on what types of activities. Many parents of teens
and near teens have reported success by focusing on helping their kids
pursue their interests with groups or societies founded on the interest,
rather than looking for age-peers.
<<<< The rest fo the days he woudl just stay in in pj's all day. >>>>>
So what? Remember you'd have that much less laundry every time he would do
that! I bet it would get old real fast too.
<<<<<<I am feelign like I am failign him, and that he is failign himself
too.
I know I am in some really unhealthy mindsets.... and I am really struggling
here.>>>>>
One question to ask yourself is "Why did we take him out of school?" Maybe
you both need to recall the "bad old days" a bit more clearly in order to
feel better.
Someone has a sign posted on their bathroom mirror: "It's not the
Unschooling, it's the ....." The idea is to insert the actual daily problem
that is making life harder. I already made some suggestions - PMS,
tiredness. Others include things like: lack of money, toothache, lousy
weather, lack of coffee, upcoming in-laws visit. Etc.....
<<<<<I am an unschooler at heart...and I am finding it hard to trust.>>>>>
Trust is the heart of Unschooling. I endorse all of Pam's suggestions about
the reading material. Also try making "to Trust" an action, rather than
waiting for it first to become a feeling.
Robyn L. Coburn
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read books and play computer games. >>>>
If he is finishing the books and the movies and the games then you can take
heart that he can finish things when he is interested in them.
Why can't he do only these things for now?
<<<<< Can;t get him to do maths.>>>>>
Deschooling is like playing Snakes and Ladders. Every time you try to "get
him" to do something with the point of view that it is necessary academics,
you slide back a ways in the deschooling process. So even though he has been
out of school since July, he has probably not completed his process - and if
you are still holding on to schoolish ideas and ideals, then you cannot help
but interfere with it.
<<<< He complains
that we aren;t doing enough fo anything. He feels "let down" in some way by
me,.. >>>>>
Would he be complaining if he was allowed to totally have his choice to
"watch movies, read books and play computer games"? If these enjoyable
activities are being limited, or there is a pressure on him from your
disapproval of these things as not valuable enough (compared to math - check
the games he is playing; bet there is tons of math and logic) he may be
looking around at the rest of his time and feeling that it is empty.
However if he is truly free and supported to do all that he really likes
without qualitative judgments coming from the other folk in his life, then
maybe he will find his days being more full.
<<<<I guess at least he does want to read!>>>>
One way for you to get a clue to his interests is to notice what he is
reading. Maybe there are other related things that you can strew in his path
that spring from those books.
<<<<<I am finding it excruciatingly hard to let go.>>>>
Keep at it, you will get there! Every chance you get to make a choice
between the controlling option and the less controlling option, choose the
latter - choose to trust.
I do a lot of biting my tongue when I am tempted to "direct" Jayn somehow -
still crops up at times. My DH reminds me to trust if I am slipping into
that mode - from being tired, or premenstrual, or distracted. It does take
practice to let go and just observe instead of making suggestions.
Try just reflecting back his feelings to him - commiserating - when he
begins to complain about not being directed by you. "Sounds like you feel a
bit bored." Then just stop - the hardest part is *not* adding "Why don't you
....." Accept any of his ideas for what he might do next with equanimity. He
might suggest activities he thinks you will approve of (more than movies
etc). Try "Sure, if that's what you feel like doing." He might try to test
you by choosing activities he feels you won't tolerate any more of (more
gaming etc.) Try "Sure, if that's what you feel like doing." Take your own
emotions out of the interaction if you can.
This is really just temporary - for the deschooling/trust building time.
Eventually you will both be at a point when you can make a suggestion
without the insidious "sneak in the academics" idea lurking in the
background of both of your minds to sully your interactions. The real goal
is for you to be at a place where he is not *asking permission* to do
anything, but *announcing his plans/desires* and requesting any
help/driving/space/suggestions he may need to accomplish them.
You can model this also. "I'm going out to the garden for while...I'm going
to bake brownies...I'm going to take these sandwiches outside to the patio.
Want to come along?"
<<<<Daniel (11.5 yr old) is lonely, I know he needs more friends around. Hi
sbest friend has just moved away. He doe have activisites with other
h/schoolers on a tues and on a friday as regular actitvities,.and he loves
those days.>>>>>
Needing friends is another issue from the idea of how he "should" be
spending his time, and on what types of activities. Many parents of teens
and near teens have reported success by focusing on helping their kids
pursue their interests with groups or societies founded on the interest,
rather than looking for age-peers.
<<<< The rest fo the days he woudl just stay in in pj's all day. >>>>>
So what? Remember you'd have that much less laundry every time he would do
that! I bet it would get old real fast too.
<<<<<<I am feelign like I am failign him, and that he is failign himself
too.
I know I am in some really unhealthy mindsets.... and I am really struggling
here.>>>>>
One question to ask yourself is "Why did we take him out of school?" Maybe
you both need to recall the "bad old days" a bit more clearly in order to
feel better.
Someone has a sign posted on their bathroom mirror: "It's not the
Unschooling, it's the ....." The idea is to insert the actual daily problem
that is making life harder. I already made some suggestions - PMS,
tiredness. Others include things like: lack of money, toothache, lousy
weather, lack of coffee, upcoming in-laws visit. Etc.....
<<<<<I am an unschooler at heart...and I am finding it hard to trust.>>>>>
Trust is the heart of Unschooling. I endorse all of Pam's suggestions about
the reading material. Also try making "to Trust" an action, rather than
waiting for it first to become a feeling.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005