[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/2005 8:26:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Right now I will call
the office and just say that she isn't coming in, but I want to sit down and
tell them my decision. Do I speak to the principal or the superintendent?
Thanks.

Judy
No one!!
Just send her the next day with her excuse note, she was not feeling well.
Calling the school and telling them, I'm going to let my duaghter decide if
she wants to go to school or not every day, will irritate them and could
possibly make them think about truency
Much as you may not like the idea, school personell are NOT going to happily
help you unschool.
Elissa
Mystik Hill Farm
Kearneysville, WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TreeGoddess

I was also thinking that going to school or not (and decided upon that
morning) might get you in trouble for truancy. Within the last month
there have been countless people on my local news being arrested and
hauled off to jail because their children had too many absences and
were "truant".

Make the decision to leave now or wait until June (ack!) but I don't
recommend going back and forth about attendance if the choice is to
finish out the year.

-Tracy-

"Peace *will* enter your life, but you
need to clear a spot for her to sit down."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jen A

TreeGoddess wrote:

> I was also thinking that going to school or not (and decided upon that
> morning) might get you in trouble for truancy. Within the last month
> there have been countless people on my local news being arrested and
> hauled off to jail because their children had too many absences and
> were "truant".
>
> Make the decision to leave now or wait until June (ack!) but I don't
> recommend going back and forth about attendance if the choice is to
> finish out the year.

Maybe after a week or two of letting your daughter decide if she is
going or not you can tell her that if she doesn't want to keep going she
doesn't have to, but if she does want to continue it would be better if
she goes every day? I don't know if that's such a great idea really,
because it's kind of turning the tables on her again--but since you
already made the offer to stay home some days I wouldn't recommend
recinding it.

Jenny

>

Ruth

Hi Judy

Sounds easier all round if she stops going altogether. That's what I did -mid term- with all mine who were in school at the time and I never regretted it. Biggest regret was leaving it as long as I did. It is a rare child who is not happy with the idea.
Ruth

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judy Anderson

Since Moira indicated wanting to stay home today, I let her stay up until I
was ready to go to bed (around 10 pm). Lauren went into her room and woke
her up at 6:15, earlier than she usually gets up for school. So then she
came into my room and announced that she wanted to go to school today after
all. I said she made her decision last night and since she stayed up so
late, I didn't want her to go. She burst into tears (as she always does
when she doesn't get exactly what she wants, regardless of the legality or
possibility of it), so I promised we would do something fun today. She was
slightly mollified and an hour or so later she asked if we could go for a
long car ride today. We had breakfast, then loaded the van to take the
trash to the dump. We had never driven the road beyond the dump, so we went
for an "adventure" via the back roads we had never explored before. Our ten
minute errand took over an hour. We saw some pretty neat houses and views.
We stopped at the store on the way home to pick up something for lunch, and
DH also bought a couple bottles of soda and three bags of chips. When we
got home it was about 10:30. Lauren asked for something to eat so I started
to make her a sandwich. She noticed the chips and asked if she could have
some. I said yes and opened the bag for her. I finished her sandwich and
gave it to her. She carried everything into the living room and put her
sandwich on the couch, where she temporarily forgot about it while she ate
her chips. Rowan found the sandwich and took the top piece of bread and one
slice of ham and began mowing down in the kitchen. Lauren bemoaned her
mutilated sandwich, then finished it (without my saying anything), then she
and I went to our appointment with the preschool coordinator and special
education team to determine her eligibility for services. That was a
horrible experience. She had fun playing in the classroom by herself during
our meeting, but I was very unhappy with the process. I had made it quite
clear to her current play therapist that I did not want her to be coded, due
to seeing what happened to my brothers in "the system". They said that they
had to code her in order to give her services, so I very reluctantly
conceded. I let them know that I would not need to send her to the
preschool to get "language role-models" because I had just foud a local
homeschooling group that has regular playdates. They were happy with that.
When we got in the car to come home, Lauren asked if we were going home. I
said yes, and she said no, she wanted to go to the store. I asked what she
wanted at the store and she said she wanted soda. I said that Daddy had
just bought soda and pulled into the driveway. She flipped out and insisted
we go to the store. I turned the car back on and drove to Family Dollar and
took her in to buy a bottle of soda. I gave her the money to pay for it
herself and she was incredibly happy. She waved that sales receipt around
in such delight! Then she was quite content to come home. The first thing
she did upon coming in was to show Daddy her sales receipt. :) The kids
asked for Jello and hard boiled eggs, both of which I began for them. About
half an hour later, she asked me to give her a nap, which I did. DH and I
started dinner to be ready at 4:30-5:00, 1.5 hours earlier than usual. We
made shepherd's pie, which sent Lauren running from the table. She doesn't
like her food mixed up. Moira ate a little, then took off to watch TV. I
finished eating, then went to teach my GED class. Just before I left, I
gave Rowan to DH to give her a nap (she starts naps by sleeping on him).
When I came home (after thinking of a great analogy for unschooling on the
walk home), the girls said, "Yay, now we can have Jello!" Then I realized
that DH was still holding a napping Rowan, so was unable to get them
anything while I was gone. Moira ate probably an entire box of Jello (I
made a double batch), but Lauren wasn't too interested in it after she tried
it. They returned to the living room to watch more TV with Daddy. Around
8, we suggested they brush teeth and hair so they would be already for bed
when they got tired. Immediately after brushing, Lauren asked me to take
her to bed. I was dreading Moira staying up until 10:30 again and having to
put her to bed because I wanted to go to bed. But she started getting
droopy eyed aroud 9:30 and was slumping on DH, who suggested she go to bed.
She thought that was a good idea and took my hand and pulled me upstairs to
read to her and sing her a song.

So to make a long story short, we had a great time with Moira home. They
both exercised far more self-discipline (what's a better word?) than I
expected. I noticed that Lauren took less advantage of the freedom than
Moira did. Is that from 7 months in kindergarten? Yikes. After the
frustrating meeting with the SPED team and the wonderful day we had today, I
am a believer. Now I just have to formally take her out of school. I feel
a little bad because the kindergarten class is the last grade to put on a
concert and it is scheduled for next Wednesday.

Judy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

scrapgal

--- In [email protected], "Judy Anderson"
<temair@a...> wrote:
>then she
> and I went to our appointment with the preschool coordinator and
special
> education team to determine her eligibility for services. That
was a
> horrible experience. She had fun playing in the classroom by
herself during
> our meeting, but I was very unhappy with the process. I had made
it quite
> clear to her current play therapist that I did not want her to be
coded, due
> to seeing what happened to my brothers in "the system".

I haven't read replies yet, but what is Lauren being evaluated for?
From all accounts she seems like a "normal" kid.

Michelle

Judy Anderson

At her two-year checkup, I was concerned that she only said 5 or 6 words.
She was evaluated for a speech delay and found to be 33% behind, thus
qualifying for early intervention. In the past year, her speech has
exploded, but she was still evaluated at 33% behind. The evaluator
indicated to me that they were fudging her level so that they wouldn't have
to suddenly stop working with her and have a gap until the public school
system took over. When I brought this up at the meeting the other day, they
completely denied any fudging. I was adamant that I did not want her coded.
I did not know that fudging the numbers so she could still see her favorite
therapist (only one, but she *loves* her) would mean she would have to be
coded. I feel betrayed. They tested her language comprehension way at the
top of the scale for her age and her expression at the very bottom. They
want to put her in speech therapy (until now it has all been play therapy)
and they wanted to put her in a local daycare two mornings a week so she
could have good language role models. I said I had found the local
homeschooling group so she would have plenty of good role models and she has
two older sisters anyway.

Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: scrapgal [mailto:pamperedmichelle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Our first taste of unschooling - kinda
long



--- In [email protected], "Judy Anderson"
<temair@a...> wrote:
>then she
> and I went to our appointment with the preschool coordinator and
special
> education team to determine her eligibility for services. That
was a
> horrible experience. She had fun playing in the classroom by
herself during
> our meeting, but I was very unhappy with the process. I had made
it quite
> clear to her current play therapist that I did not want her to be
coded, due
> to seeing what happened to my brothers in "the system".

I haven't read replies yet, but what is Lauren being evaluated for?
From all accounts she seems like a "normal" kid.

Michelle




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ruth

Hi Judy
Sorry I can't remember but how old is she? My ds now aged 6 did not talk at all until he was 3 and a half. This is good old UK lol and he never had speech therapy as the waiting list is so long he would still be on it. He talks all the time now and is not dalyed at all. sometimes I think they expect something and cos the child doesn't do it at the appointed age they label them as delayed when in actual fact they are only going at their own pace. How do you feel about it?
Ruth

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judy Anderson

Lauren turns three in a few weeks. I think she is talking just fine now.
She was making very slow progress Where I live, all children are tested for
lead at their one-year checkup. She registered very high, and the state
came in to investigate our apartment and found it chock full of lead. I got
rid of almost all of it, but the landlady is not very responisble and won't
do her part to get rid of it. The combination of the high lead level and
the fact that she wasn't talking much yet led them to say she was delayed.
The more I read here and the more I mull it over in my own mind, the more I
realize that she is just going at her own pace. My best friend told me that
her little sister didn't utter a word until she was 3 years old. Their
mother was concerned that she might have been deaf because she truly never
said a single word. Then she started with full complete sentences.

Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Ruth [mailto:grayfamily9@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Our first taste of unschooling -
kinda long


Hi Judy
Sorry I can't remember but how old is she? My ds now aged 6 did not talk
at all until he was 3 and a half. This is good old UK lol and he never had
speech therapy as the waiting list is so long he would still be on it. He
talks all the time now and is not dalyed at all. sometimes I think they
expect something and cos the child doesn't do it at the appointed age they
label them as delayed when in actual fact they are only going at their own
pace. How do you feel about it?
Ruth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Syndi

I agree with you and everyone else, she is going at her own pace as
far as speaking.
As for the school, the more "labeled" kids they have, the more
money they get.
syndi and sons

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/19/2005 8:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
grayfamily9@... writes:


> sometimes I think they expect something and cos the child doesn't do it at
> the appointed age they label them as delayed when in actual fact they are
> only going at their own pace. How do you feel about it?
> Ruth
>

thats what i think,,, i have 4 kids ,,they started talking at 4 different
ages,,,,own time,,not someone elses,,,,,>>JUNE


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

scrapgal

--- In [email protected], "Judy Anderson"
<temair@a...> wrote:
> At her two-year checkup, I was concerned that she only said 5 or 6
words.
> She was evaluated for a speech delay and found to be 33% behind,
thus
> qualifying for early intervention. In the past year, her speech has
> exploded, but she was still evaluated at 33% behind.

I've had "speech delayed" children. My son didn't talk *at all*
until he was 3. He was a "point and grunt" kid. Now he doesn't shut
up. And not one day of speech therapy. It could be that your dd's
vocabulary "exploded" because she was ready to talk not because she
went to therapy. She's still "33% behind." Behind who? Does it
matter? And they "fudged" the numbers so that they could continue
working with her. Do you know what that really translates to? "So
we can continue getting government money for our pay checks." I
would challenge you to quit the therapy sessions and see what happens
by just talking to your dd. She may be one of those overly quiet
kids that really has a huge arsenal of words, but *chooses* not to
talk. My brother is like that. He just doesn't have anything he
really wants to talk about. We go months without talking and then I
will get a phone call from him asking me how to cook fish. (This just
happened last week after not hearing from him since the winter
solstice!) He was one of those "delayed speakers" Conversations just
don't interest him. He's the quiet one in his circle of friends yet
he is one of those rare insightful people who is a great judge of
character!

Children will learn to talk when they are ready. They need to in
order to communicate. Some kids just need a longer time to figure
out the whole head to tongue to vocal chord connection, but they
*will* figure it out - in their time. That's one of the things that
I love about unschooling. My chidren are able to do things when they
are physically and emotionally ready to do those things, not when
some created chart says they are supposed to do them. Take walking
for instance. Some babies are walking long before they turn one year
old. Some aren't walking when they get to be two years old. Yet, do
you know any adult that has perfectly capable legs that doesn't
walk? Probably not. That's because they walked when they were
ready. We have to trust that our children will do these other things
(like talk, skip, read, cut with a knife, jump rope, etc. etc. etc.)
when they are ready as well.

Michelle

Cheyenne Cain

A 30 yr old friend of mine just recently told us this story about his "speech problem" as a young todler; Casey's mother was concerned because he wasn't speaking yet at age three. She took him to one "therapist" who gave him a really neat toy and then bounced a ball near him. The therapist labeled him "mentally retarded" because Casey didn't acknowledge the ball being bounced (what a crock). Thank goodness that Casey's mother knew not to listen to him and took her son elsewhere. The "therapist" watched mom and son interact for several minutes and then stated: Mam, your son is not retarded, he doesn't have to ask for anything because you give him everything by him just pointing. He told her to go home and make him ask for what he wants. Sure enough they went home Casey pointed at the sink for water but mom wouldn't get it. She pretended not to understand and much to her surprise Casey out of frustration asked for the water in almost a full sentence!!!!

Like it's been said...they'll talk when their ready.

cheyenne

scrapgal <pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:

--- In [email protected], "Judy Anderson"
<temair@a...> wrote:
> At her two-year checkup, I was concerned that she only said 5 or 6
words.
> She was evaluated for a speech delay and found to be 33% behind,
thus
> qualifying for early intervention. In the past year, her speech has
> exploded, but she was still evaluated at 33% behind.

I've had "speech delayed" children. My son didn't talk *at all*
until he was 3. He was a "point and grunt" kid. Now he doesn't shut
up. And not one day of speech therapy. It could be that your dd's
vocabulary "exploded" because she was ready to talk not because she
went to therapy. She's still "33% behind." Behind who? Does it
matter? And they "fudged" the numbers so that they could continue
working with her. Do you know what that really translates to? "So
we can continue getting government money for our pay checks." I
would challenge you to quit the therapy sessions and see what happens
by just talking to your dd. She may be one of those overly quiet
kids that really has a huge arsenal of words, but *chooses* not to
talk. My brother is like that. He just doesn't have anything he
really wants to talk about. We go months without talking and then I
will get a phone call from him asking me how to cook fish. (This just
happened last week after not hearing from him since the winter
solstice!) He was one of those "delayed speakers" Conversations just
don't interest him. He's the quiet one in his circle of friends yet
he is one of those rare insightful people who is a great judge of
character!

Children will learn to talk when they are ready. They need to in
order to communicate. Some kids just need a longer time to figure
out the whole head to tongue to vocal chord connection, but they
*will* figure it out - in their time. That's one of the things that
I love about unschooling. My chidren are able to do things when they
are physically and emotionally ready to do those things, not when
some created chart says they are supposed to do them. Take walking
for instance. Some babies are walking long before they turn one year
old. Some aren't walking when they get to be two years old. Yet, do
you know any adult that has perfectly capable legs that doesn't
walk? Probably not. That's because they walked when they were
ready. We have to trust that our children will do these other things
(like talk, skip, read, cut with a knife, jump rope, etc. etc. etc.)
when they are ready as well.

Michelle




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina

I can relate to this as well. Both my brother, now 28 years, and my
step-son, now 13 years, both didn't speak at all until after three
years of age.

Tina


--- In [email protected], "Judy Anderson"
<temair@a...> wrote:
> Lauren turns three in a few weeks. I think she is talking just
fine now.
> She was making very slow progress Where I live, all children are
tested for
> lead at their one-year checkup. She registered very high, and the
state
> came in to investigate our apartment and found it chock full of
lead. I got
> rid of almost all of it, but the landlady is not very responisble
and won't
> do her part to get rid of it. The combination of the high lead
level and
> the fact that she wasn't talking much yet led them to say she was
delayed.
> The more I read here and the more I mull it over in my own mind,
the more I
> realize that she is just going at her own pace. My best friend
told me that
> her little sister didn't utter a word until she was 3 years old.
Their
> mother was concerned that she might have been deaf because she
truly never
> said a single word. Then she started with full complete sentences.
>
> Judy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ruth [mailto:grayfamily9@g...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 11:31 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Our first taste of
unschooling -
> kinda long
>
>
> Hi Judy
> Sorry I can't remember but how old is she? My ds now aged 6 did
not talk
> at all until he was 3 and a half. This is good old UK lol and he
never had
> speech therapy as the waiting list is so long he would still be on
it. He
> talks all the time now and is not dalyed at all. sometimes I think
they
> expect something and cos the child doesn't do it at the appointed
age they
> label them as delayed when in actual fact they are only going at
their own
> pace. How do you feel about it?
> Ruth
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina

>>He was a "point and grunt" kid.

That's exactly what my brother did! My step-son, on the other hand,
had his four beautiful sisters do all his talking for him. :) I
don't know how it is they knew what he wanted, but they always did.
It's interesting that they still communicate effectively without
speaking a word...

Tina

scrapgal

--- In [email protected], "Tina" <zoocrew@w...> wrote:
>
> >>He was a "point and grunt" kid.
>
> That's exactly what my brother did! My step-son, on the other
hand,
> had his four beautiful sisters do all his talking for him. :) I
> don't know how it is they knew what he wanted, but they always
did.
> It's interesting that they still communicate effectively without
> speaking a word...
>

That was me with my brother. I spoke for him. I still do often.
When I went to school for the first 3 years my mother was at a loss.
Then my brother decided that speaking might be a good way to
communicate. He was over 4 by that point and only said a handful of
words. It's interesting how my brother and I can communicate. I
don't know how it is, but I can "read" him. This past Christmas
dinner we were sitting around afterwards and I said, "Duane is ready
to go home now" and he stood up and said, "See ya!" and left. Not
because I said he had to go but that he was ready and I had allowed
him the exit. My dad just shakes his head and says, "How do you do
that?"

Michelle

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "Tina" <zoocrew@w...> wrote:
>
> >>He was a "point and grunt" kid.
>
> That's exactly what my brother did! My step-son, on the other
hand,
> had his four beautiful sisters do all his talking for him.

I sure don't have a problem with that, but have developed a slight
twitch from a couple families we know where the siblings or parents
talk for the child AND THEN the parent are going to all these lengths
with doctors and speech therapists...all with the focus of Something
Is Wrong With The Child. Argh!

Okay, so it's a pet peeve.

--aj, muttering in the corner...

Daniel MacIntyre

At 2, Zachary was evaluated as being delayed because of his speech
expression. He had three words and two of them were 'ball'. The
simple fact is that Zachary didn't CARE about expressing himself at
that age. He was into balls. If he had a ball, he was playing with
it. If he didn't have a ball, he had a very concise way of asking for
one. His needs were MET.

Later, when he started having other interests (airplanes, sharks,
spiders, dinosaurs, etc...) and started interacting with others on
more than an 'I want' basis, they tested him again. He scored a 109
on their test where 100 was average. His words at three included
pachycephalosaurus, velocirapter, parasauralophus, brachiosaurus,
apatosaurus (notice a trend? And he figured out the difference
between a brachiosaur and an apatosaur before I did).

Now at four, he is able to ask for parallelograms and tell the
difference between them and squares turned on their ends, and he's
continually using phrases that suprise us. The latest one was this
Sunday. As we were leaving church he wanted to stay and expressed it
at the door by saying "No! I want to have a Power Struggle!" I think
he picked up that one from my mother in law - I know WE never used the
phrase 'power struggle' with him. He has used more sophisticated
language recently, but the specifics are escaping me at this time.


On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:06:08 -0500, Judy Anderson <temair@...> wrote:
>
> At her two-year checkup, I was concerned that she only said 5 or 6 words.
> She was evaluated for a speech delay and found to be 33% behind, thus
> qualifying for early intervention. In the past year, her speech has
> exploded, but she was still evaluated at 33% behind. The evaluator
> indicated to me that they were fudging her level so that they wouldn't have
> to suddenly stop working with her and have a gap until the public school
> system took over. When I brought this up at the meeting the other day, they
> completely denied any fudging. I was adamant that I did not want her coded.
> I did not know that fudging the numbers so she could still see her favorite
> therapist (only one, but she *loves* her) would mean she would have to be
> coded. I feel betrayed. They tested her language comprehension way at the
> top of the scale for her age and her expression at the very bottom. They
> want to put her in speech therapy (until now it has all been play therapy)
> and they wanted to put her in a local daycare two mornings a week so she
> could have good language role models. I said I had found the local
> homeschooling group so she would have plenty of good role models and she has
> two older sisters anyway.
>
> Judy

--
Daniel
(Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )

scrapgal

--- In [email protected], Daniel MacIntyre
<daniel.macintyre@g...> wrote:
> At 2, Zachary was evaluated as being delayed because of his speech
> expression. He had three words and two of them were 'ball'. The
> simple fact is that Zachary didn't CARE about expressing himself at
> that age. He was into balls. If he had a ball, he was playing
with
> it. If he didn't have a ball, he had a very concise way of asking
for
> one. His needs were MET.

What is it with balls? Keon was like that as well. For his second
and third Yule celebrations we gave him nothing but balls. In fact
for his second Yule we gave him this huge box full of different
balls. He was the most ecstatic little boy in the world. A BOX
with BALLS! Everything was a ball including eggs (which he found
did not bounce - UGH!)

>
> Later, when he started having other interests (airplanes, sharks,
> spiders, dinosaurs, etc...) and started interacting with others on
> more than an 'I want' basis, they tested him again. He scored a
109
> on their test where 100 was average. His words at three included
> pachycephalosaurus, velocirapter, parasauralophus, brachiosaurus,
> apatosaurus (notice a trend? And he figured out the difference
> between a brachiosaur and an apatosaur before I did).

Keon went from ball to gondola, boxcar, engine, deisel, passenger
car, caboose, narrow gauge, trolly, and all the names of all the
Thomas engines and friends. He also uses some pretty amazing words
and phrases. I think this comes from us using some "pretty amazing
words and phrases" We don't talk to him in "6yo-ese" but like he
was an adult. If we say a word that he doesn't understand we just
give him a definition that he can understand. He then adopts that
word into his vocabulary. We did this with all our children. Mary
Elayne's favorite word for the longest time was "effervescent." She
was my child that went from saying "Nursie" and "Mama" to "May I
have a cup of juice, please?" overnight. She was older than 2 when
she did that, but it shouldn't have surprised me as that is how she
has done everything: talking, reading, walking, weaning,
rollerskating, etc. I figure she is just one of those people who is
going to observe until she has enough information and then she is
going to do whatever it was she wanted to do like she always has
been doing it.

Michelle

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<Everything was a ball including eggs (which he found
did not bounce - UGH!)>>>>

Isn't there some process where you can make an egg rubbery by soaking it in
vinegar or something? The shell dissolves and the inside rubberizes?

Robyn L. Coburn

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Angela S

When I am canning tomatoes and I feed all the skins to the hens, they lay
eggs that are rubbery and that do not harden up like a regular egg shell.
It's cool! They feel really neat. The same thing happens when you soak
them in vinegar; they soften up and feel rubbery.

Angela
game-enthusiast@...


> Isn't there some process where you can make an egg rubbery by soaking it
in
> vinegar or something? The shell dissolves and the inside rubberizes?
>
> Robyn L. Coburn

Daniel MacIntyre

That's what I need to do - encourage my son to bounce eggs.


On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:00:36 -0800, Robyn Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<<Everything was a ball including eggs (which he found
> did not bounce - UGH!)>>>>
>
> Isn't there some process where you can make an egg rubbery by soaking it in
> vinegar or something? The shell dissolves and the inside rubberizes?
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


--
Daniel
(Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )