Amanda Sutton

Here in the UK we have to prove that we as parents are providing an education suitable for a childs ability, age and aptitude. It has to be 'broad and well balanced' and has to achieve what you set out to achieve (ie be efficient)

Now I understand how if my daughter (13) did some baking (which she does a lot) it can for a basis of a report be written as 'chemistry', but is this valid for her? Am I letting her down by not getting a 'chemistry kit' out instead and doing that with her. 'I' know cooking is chemistry, but the education authority would have a different view.

I sometimes read how things can be interpreted in unschooling terms. Is it really that easy just to live each day and do whatever takes your fancy?

It kind of feels like cheating converting my day into educational ease to convince the authorities we are providing an education. Is that really providing my children with an education that according to my law has to enable them to live in our society and not block any avenues they may choose to take. (like any avenue is ever closed!)

I know there are autonomous educators here who don't file a report splitting it up into categories, but it does give you a fight on your hands if you choose this option.

Dh is not convinced unschooling is the best way, as dd given the choice won't for example do her maths cd-rom (she says she hates maths). Now she can do real life maths easily (you know with real money) but I feel this area would be lacking in a report.

I find it hard to not be steered by what the education department is looking for and I guess this kind of stops us just living our lives as in the back of my mind I am thinking 'can this be classed as an education'. I know we all have gaps, but I am more aware of this for my children as this is what the department will pull me up on.

Can I ask, how do you have so much faith that unschooling is the right way? I really believe that it is, we are trying to live an unschooling life, but those nagging doubts keep cropping up! I love all I have read but I find it hard to relax and just live, I feel worried my children will have regrets I didn't push them to take their exams like their peers have done- you know the exams-college-university-job-retirement-death treadmill!! My eldest is now regreting she didn't take some exams early and is worried she is going to end up stupid, guess she's not understanding unschooling either!

I admire your faith, and want to trust just like most of you do- do I just do it, jump in and start trusting?

~Amanda~

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scrapgal

--- In [email protected], "Amanda Sutton"
<skypainter@t...> wrote:
> I love all I have read but I find it hard to relax and just live,
I feel worried my children will have regrets I didn't push them to
take their exams like their peers have done- you know the exams-
college-university-job-retirement-death treadmill!! My eldest is now
regreting she didn't take some exams early and is worried she is
going to end up stupid, guess she's not understanding unschooling
either!
>

If your dd's desire is to take these exams and go to uni, then that
is where we step up to the bat and help her achieve those things.
If she is concerned about doing well, then we provide the means for
her to study (if she wants to.) if she wants to take a mathematics
class so she can do better, then find a mathematics course for
her. Being unschooling doesn't always equate to not having any
formal schooling. Many unschoolers enjoy "escapades" into formal
education either to experience it or to gain some information that
they feel that they need that they are having a difficult time
grasping in their own "learning environment." Mostly it is based on
child-motivated knowledge seeking.

Do you have umbrella schools or cover schools over there? Not
having to answer to the government about how I am raising my child
is worth using a cover school. I don't believe it is the
government's business if I teach trigonometry or play Gameboy. *I*
know that my children are creative, seeking, and intelligent
humans. Get my dd into a conversation about ancient Egypt and
she'll talk your ear off. Ask her to do a page of arithmetic and
she will tune you out! Yet she can do much math in her head!

Michelle

Fetteroll

on 2/4/05 7:33 PM, Amanda Sutton at skypainter@... wrote:

> Can I ask, how do you have so much faith that unschooling is the right way?

Partly from knowing it can work for other kids (from reading about them on
message boards and lists).

Partly from seeing it work. (I had a hard time understanding unschooling
math until I saw my daughter reworking numbers in her head to put them into
a pattern that was easier to see and get an answer from.)

Partly from not having to prove to anyone that she's right now on a path
that will lead her to adult "success".

A good website for inspirational reading is
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling

> Now I understand how if my daughter (13) did some baking (which she does a
> lot) it can for a basis of a report be written as 'chemistry', but is this
> valid for her?

While it's sometimes a necessary evil to divide the world into subjects to
appease the government, people don't need "chemistry". They need what the
find interesting which might be cooking or engine repair or dragon stories
or black and white movies or ...

It might help to think of unschooling as how *joyful* people would relive
their lives if they were working towards where they end up. :-) A writer
would write. An artist would draw. A chef would cook. And they would dabble
in lots of other things too that interested them.

> Am I letting her down by not getting a 'chemistry kit' out
> instead and doing that with her.

You are letting her down if she wants you to get a chemistry kit and do it
with her.

If she doesn't, the chemistry kit is no more meaningful than reading a
chapter in a dull history textbook. They are both likely to lead to the
feeling "This is chemistry/history and this is boring."

> I sometimes read how things can be interpreted in unschooling terms. Is it
> really that easy just to live each day and do whatever takes your fancy?

Not always :-)

Kids don't know everything that's available so the part the parents play is
in exposing them to things we think they might *enjoy*. The hard part is
turning off the voice that says "It will be good for them to be exposed to
this. And they might like it." Maybe think of exposing a friend to new and
exciting things. You'd want to be fairly confident that she'd like what you
wanted to show her or she wouldn't trust your recommendations for very long!

> It kind of feels like cheating converting my day into educational ease to
> convince the authorities we are providing an education.

Are you in contact with other unschoolers in the UK? Are you perhaps giving
the authorities more than necessary? Is there a middle ground between not
splitting into categories and writing too much?

> Dh is not convinced unschooling is the best way, as dd given the choice won't
> for example do her maths cd-rom (she says she hates maths). Now she can do
> real life maths easily (you know with real money) but I feel this area would
> be lacking in a report.

Few children would do a maths cd-rom without being made to unless it was a
game :-)

Math is the hardest "subject" to understand how unschooling works with it.
(It was especially hard for me since I graduated with a degree in
engineering and had a *lot* of math. It just didn't seem possible to learn
math without a formal approach.)

But learning math in real life looks *nothing* like learning math in school.
My daughter has done *sinfully* little math in her 13 years and yet has a
fundamental understanding of how numbers work which is way more important
than memorizing methods. Once they have a fundamental understanding of what
addition and subtraction and multiplication and division and percent and so
on are by using them and seeing what contexts they appear in, then more
formal math is much much easier.

The problem in school is they can't test for understanding. They can only
test for memoriziation. So school have to teach things that can be memorized
so they can test them.

Which has little to do with understanding.

For example, kids learn how to add and subtract by borrowing and carrying.
And they can be tested to see if they've memorized the steps to go through
to borrow and carry. But when faced with a problem in real life, like how
much money will they have left over after they buy a toy, they are often
baffled because they don't really understand how numbers work and don't have
a fundamental understanding of what they're really doing when they're
borrowing and carrying. They're just going through the motions.

But in real life with unschooling, the fundamental understanding comes
first. And then if a child is shown a rote formula, they can grasp it fairly
quickly because they understand why it's being done that way.

School (and maths cd-roms) are asking kids to learn the abstract before they
understand what numbers are and how they work. With unschooling they can go
the other way and gain an understanding and then the abstract -- should they
ever need it -- is way easier.

Math in school is sort of like learning the mechanics of Spanish grammar and
memorizing vocabulary but without being exposed to the living language: no
speaking, no reading, no hearing. It's all just rules with no reason.

But that's not how kids learn language (or anything else.) Kids learn
language as a *side effect* by using it imperfectly to get what they want --
picked up, shown something, juice. They don't learn grammar and vocabulary.
They just aborb those by using the parts of language they understand that
will get them what they want. (In fact the best foreign language programs
are immersion programs where adults learn much like children.)

Math is the same way. Kids use numbers and get an understanding of how
numbers work as a side effect.

> I feel worried my children will have regrets I didn't push them to take their
> exams like their peers have done- you know the
> exams-college-university-job-retirement-death treadmill!!

It's hard to give suggestions since the education system is different in the
UK.

But is there a university "track" for adults? Can people who have been
working for a while get into a university?

In the US many people are stuck thinking that you have to 1) have the
courses in high school that prepare you for college to get a diploma and 2)
take the standardized test. But that's just one path. In the US there are
other options like working first and then going to college and using life
experience to demonstrate competence and like going to community college
which are looser and often geared towards working people where students can
easily sign up for single courses.

> My eldest is now
> regreting she didn't take some exams early and is worried she is going to end
> up stupid, guess she's not understanding unschooling either!

I think there's a danger of letting kids live life without talking about all
the options they have. We don't need to tell them they need to do x to get
to y but we can talk casually about the possibilites that are open to them
so they can see the options they have -- like talking about people you know
who have taken different paths. (Do you know any? Perhaps your daughter
could talk to them -- if they're happy in where they are and how they got
there! :-) If she thinks taking the exams is the only "good" option open to
her, then it's understandable she'd worry. If she knows of other options,
then she'll see choices she can make.

Joyce

Pam Sorooshian

>> Can I ask, how do you have so much faith that unschooling is the
>> right way?
>>

It makes sense to me, intellectually, because it fits with what I
understand of child development and what is known about how the brain
functions.

It makes sense to me, logically, because it seems conducive to
achieving our goals - to raising kids who are passionate, committed,
self-reliant, focused people with a strong sense of self along with a
strong sense of being a contributing part of an ever-advancing
civilization.

It makes sense to me, interpersonally. It promotes the kinds of
relationships I want to have in my life. It doesn't rely on "power" but
on understanding and communicating. It doesn't rely on "control," but
on support and encouragement.

It makes sense to me, emotionally. It "feels" right. It strikes a
beautiful harmonious chord on my heartstrings.

It makes sense to me, morally and ethically. Most of all it feels very
honest. There is no manipulation, no pretense, but instead there is a
strong sense of respect and thoughtfulness and caring and a constant
open-minded search for understanding, for truth.

-pam

Cheyenne Cain

Help!! I felt I needed some encouragement. So I wanted to ask you guys for some :)

I am a single mom who works in the evenings so my dd, 10, and I usually have the mornings to be together and do different things or absoulutly nothing. It has generally worked well for us.

Well, for the past month or two my schedule got a little more hetic, finances have gotten a little bit tighter and last week we moved in with my sister. I have found that I have very little to offer my dd. I am so occupied and worn out that all I really want to do is crawl in bed and not come out for at least a week. That, however does not seem to be an option in the near future :)

Dd has occupied her time with xbox, disney channel, internet, and cheographing dances. There are art supplies realily available but she seldom will do any. She still shows little interest in reading so no books yet, unsless I read them to her. She usually goes with one of my close friends for the evening while I work or maybe stays home if it isn't a very long shift. (we live 2 minutes from where I work).

I guess I am just worried that because I'm unavailable she'll miss out....on something. I'm not sure what. I know I'm probably worrying over nothing but I still worry.

Any advice?

Cheyenne







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[email protected]

>>>>>>>Dd has occupied her time with xbox, disney channel, internet, and choreographing dances. There are art supplies realily available but she seldom will do any. <<<<

Have you set new things out each morning? ---like before you leave, put some paper and some pastels out. She may rather have the water colors, but if it's OUT and if she knows where to go, it might spark some creativity.


>>>>>She still shows little interest in reading so no books yet, unsless I read them to her.<<<<


Books on tape & CD!!!! Duncan loves to listen while he's doing other things. Movies. Both are free from the library!


>>>>I guess I am just worried that because I'm unavailable she'll miss out....on something. I'm not sure what. I know I'm probably worrying over nothing but I still worry.<<<<

I'd worry more about your physical and mental health because you're doing all that worrying! <g>

You seem to need some sleep and some "up" time, yourself!

Maybe she could help! Let her know how tired you are. Tell her that you're feeling as if you're letting her down by not being available. Ask what you can do together that would be good for both of you.

OH! You could have a "spa" night. Find her some recipes for bath fizzies and oils. Maybe she could make these up during the day. Then at night, you could have a nice long soak while you talk and reconnect and come up with some *other* ideas for the two of you.

Good luck!---and know it's not forever!

~Kelly