messy_boys

Hello all,

I was wondering if you would share about how you handle housework and the everyday type chores that need done?

Today has been really great; we caught some moths and looked them up online; we watered the plants around the house; we rode bikes out front; and then the kids played in the sprinkler. Then it was mudpie time, and they also had great fun using a hammer to nail large screws into the ground.

But...nothing got done in the house! And now I feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it all: laundry, dishes, floors, and picking up.

I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids. Any ideas appreciated!

Kristie

[email protected]

The dishes will still be there. The kids will grow up and be gone.

Pick one thing -- put a load of laundry in the machine. Now play with the kids. Later in the morning, put the laundry in the dryer. Play with the kids. At some point, ask them to help you take the laundry out or just do it and get it done. Play with the kids.

Great! Today, there was a lot of playing and the laundry got done.

Now, as you are fixing dinner, empty and fill the dishwasher. This is my least favorite thing but shouldn't take more than 10 minutes and you're in the kitchen anyway. Do it and get it done. Now, make sure the beef stew is simmering nicely in the crock pot and return to playing with the kids.

Great! Now, the dishes got done too.

And there was still lots of playing. The playing is the important stuff. The laundry and dishes are the boring stuff that gets done as you can, in between living. And if anyone has a complaint about something they think you should have done, tell them to feel free to do it themselves. :)

Nance


--- In [email protected], "messy_boys" <messy_boys@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if you would share about how you handle housework and the everyday type chores that need done?
>
> Today has been really great; we caught some moths and looked them up online; we watered the plants around the house; we rode bikes out front; and then the kids played in the sprinkler. Then it was mudpie time, and they also had great fun using a hammer to nail large screws into the ground.
>
> But...nothing got done in the house! And now I feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it all: laundry, dishes, floors, and picking up.
>
> I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids. Any ideas appreciated!
>
> Kristie
>

Meredith

Slim down the work as much as you can - that could take some experimenting to see what works for you. For instance, I prefer to have less dishes to wash so they don't pile up, but my partner is the at-home parent and he prefers to have lots and lots of dishes so he can put off washing them longer. We're the opposite with laundry, though - I'd rather do all the laundry one or two days a week, while he'd rather do it a little at a time.

It can help to re-prioritize, too. How much really Needs to be picked up? Can you live with a little more clutter? What kind of mess is there? Can you put a laundry basket in the living room and toss discarded socks and towels there as you come across them and take all that to the laundry later? Maybe a washtub for random dishes, too. How about big bins to toss toys into so you can do a sort of cursory clean-up without actually putting anything "away". For legos and small toys, I learned to clean with a dust-pan: scoop it all into a bin, and it's done.

It can also help to re-think when you do the cleaning and include the kids a little. For instance, it's easier for some kids to see the point of cleaning up when it's to make room for something they want to do: help me get these dishes in the sink and this puzzle put away so we can use the table to paint.

---Meredith

Meredith

"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>> Now, as you are fixing dinner, empty and fill the dishwasher.

I don't have a dishwasher, but when my kids were little, I'd set up an extra washtub and invite my kid to come play while I washed. Ray like to help wash, so I'd give him some of the dishes. Mo preferred to play with other things in the water, or wash her toys.

---Meredith

Sara Evans

>
> I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids. Any
> ideas appreciated!
>

My kids really appreciate this Rhythm:
http://homeschoolingindetroit.com/2012/01/25/homeschool-crafting-rhythm-rainbow/

"First, I drew a simple rainbow on our chalkboard. I then asked the girls
helped me brainstorm the different activities we generally do at different
times of the day. What kinds of things do we do when we wake? What comes
first, dressing ourselves or playing outside? Grocery shopping or cooking
dinner? Simple questions and yet I could see that it gave them such
confidence to actually spend thought on their daily activities and
interactions. <snip>

The rainbow is not a set of structured agendas though! It is a set of
principles and offers ideas on how to make our time flow more smoothly.
For instance, if the girls seem rowdy I ask them �Where are we in our
Rhythm right now? Where would you like to be?� As we tend to stay awake
later than daddy, it�s nice to be able to kindly remind them that we are
�in the blue�. This rhythm lends to cooperation, happiness and a feeling
of self-regulation for everyone."

If the rhythm of my day leads me to a chore, I will let the kids know that
it is how I feel. They may be asked to help or at least be expected to let
me complete the task while they busy themselves elsewhere. But yes most of
our days are spent playing!

--
Sara
Momi to RayeAnne ('01) and Arwen Vada ('06)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Sara Evans <sunrayemomi@...> wrote:
>> My kids really appreciate this Rhythm

It might help to know the original poster has six kids, ages 2-13. Strategies that make cute ideas for younger children don't tend to last well into adolescence - in fact, it's generally more helpful to step away from wanting to have A good solution or system and instead look for collections of ideas and tools to try in a range of different situations.

The rest of this reply is a bit of a tangent from the original topic, and some of the quotes are internal quotes - the poster quoting another source. Please note that "you" is used in the general sense, not the specific.

>> "First, I drew a simple rainbow on our chalkboard. I then asked the girls
> helped me brainstorm the different activities we generally do at different
> times of the day."

Learning happens amazingly well without a need to create lessons. The rainbow thing is cute, but it's still pretty clearly a lesson - and a lot of kids will catch on to that one way or another, either because they've dealt with school or home-ed and have learned to smell a rat, or because their personalities don't lend well to this kind of contrived interaction.

My daughter is 10, and has been unschooled from the start, so she doesn't have an automatic aversion to "lessons" but she would imediately catch on that there wasn't any real "brainstorming" to be done - it's a quiz, and a purely dismissive one at that. When she wants to keep track of what she's doing on a given day, she checks her calender, otherwise, what does it matter?

>"What comes
> first, dressing ourselves or playing outside? Grocery shopping or cooking
> dinner?"

This sounds like its right out of a teacher training manual: lesson 15: sequencing. But in real life, getting dressed doesn't necessarily come before playing outside - if anything, my kids tend to change clothes when they come in muddy or sweaty or drenched... for that matter, so do I! And why would I go grocery shopping before making dinner? did I forget something at the store? Can I not substitute? I'm being a little silly here to make a point - it's not a real conversation, it's a lesson with right and wrong answers.

In real life, converstaions about first-next-later happen naturally, in regards to alllllll sorts of things. I want to run out to the store but first I need to find my keys and then I need to stop for gas, and then the bank - that's normal planning, and if you do it out loud and up-front so your kids know what's going on, they learn pretty handily about sequencing.

>"Simple questions and yet I could see that it gave them such
> confidence to actually spend thought on their daily activities and
> interactions."

If you're open to making those sorts of conversations real conversations, they're an opportunity for kids to say "since we're out, I'd like to do something" and you to work out a plan to include what they want in your plans - and That goes a long way toward helping them have a sense of confidence in their doings; they have real power in their world.

> "The rainbow is not a set of structured agendas though! It is a set of
> principles and offers ideas on how to make our time flow more smoothly."

If you're coming from a highly regulated background, it might not seem like the rainbow thing is about a structured agenda, but it's really loaded up with adult agendas about "self regulation". Self regulation is a good idea to pick apart in and of itself, but I'll skip that for now and say it's not Necessary to self regulate as long as you feel like you have options and can make choices. When kids are stuck in a situation where they Don't feel like they can make real, meaningful choices, then "self regulation" becomes important. When you set your kids up to make choices, they learn that life is full of choices - it is!

>" For instance, if the girls seem rowdy I ask them "Where are we in our
> Rhythm right now? Where would you like to be?" As we tend to stay awake
> later than daddy, it's nice to be able to kindly remind them that we are
> "in the blue"."

Why not remind them that someone they love would like to sleep? Or suggest, if they're in a rowdy mood, that y'all get out of the house for a little while and blow off some steam? Or if the rest of the family is regularly up later than dad, is it possible to create some sound-deadening strategies by re-arranging the house layout, getting a white-noise machine (or a fish-tank), adding draperies and plants? Rather than looking for ways to teach self-regulation, see that life is full of opportunites for kids to make choices. Help them make better choices. If a cutesie image helps you communicate about choices, then it's not a bad thing, but keep in mind that it's not going to last very long. A ten year old isn't going to have much patience for "where are we on our rainbow?" she's going to roll her eyes and wish you'd just get to the point.

> If the rhythm of my day leads me to a chore, I will let the kids know that
> it is how I feel.

Wow, that's convoluted reasoning.

When reasoning seems really convoluted, it can help to touch base with one's most cherished values. So, if I value kindness, sometimes it's a kinder choice to clean the kitchen right now - and sometimes it's kinder to spend time with one of my kids or my partner, or sit out on the porch and take a few deep breaths. It's not clear to me what kind of values are being expressed by saying "the rhythm... leads me to a chore". Responsibility?

>They may be asked to help...

Is it a real question, where No is an acceptible answer? No matter what they're doing? It's not a bad thing to occasionally say "give me a hand with this" - adults ask each other for help, after all. But demanding in the form of a question sets kids up to mistrust adult questions - plus it's rude! If you value courtesy and kindness, be kind and courteous to your children.

>or at least be expected to let
> me complete the task while they busy themselves elsewhere.

That's not always feasible - kids need parents! Some kids need more time and energy from parents than others, and they don't all express that in big, obvious ways. Expecting kids to stay out of your way and let you finish can set some kids up to clamor, and set others up to feel disregarded: I'm less important than the dishes.

The idea of a rhythm is a good one in that it's natural for people to have rhythms - and it's good to notice what your kids rhythms are, so you can work little bits of housekeeping into the day or big bits of housekeeping into the week. It's better to think of it that way - do those tasks which take you away from your kids when they Are busy elsewhere, naturally focused on what's interesting to them. And even then be sure you're taking time to see what's fun and new and exciting to your kids. You don't get those moments back.

---Meredith

Sara Evans

Thank you for making my suggestion more clear from an unschooling
standpoint. :) and pointing out that the original poster has many kids
and that this approach does not grow with children. My younger daughter
finds it interesting. She will sometimes say "what color are we in?" but
what she really means is that she would like an idea of what we can do with
each other. So I say "what color would you like to be in?" Perhaps I
could be anticipating her better. I usually do quite well, so she's been
referring to it less and less since we did the rainbow in Jan. My older
(11) and husband did not even pay attention to the rainbow, they are happy
in their own rhythms or lack of :)

I was not suggesting choosing a chore over parenting *because* it is on the
board, nor was I even insisting getting dressed need come before going out
(it often doesn't here) or that any of the things on the rainbow need be in
a sequence, or that the rainbow needed to be anything more than cute or
helpful as a tool for the whole family to pull from now and then. But it's
more clear to me now that many may read it that way.

I am grateful that you were able to post more clearly Meredith and am Sorry
for derailing the discussion with unclear thoughts but I hope it helped
someone to read yours following :) at any rate, I erased the rhythm last
month so it isn't on our board anymore since we mostly only referred to
colors anyway. Plus, I wrote it as a guest blogger so from the angle that
I was speaking to homeschoolers possibly coming from a very structured
viewpoint - my attempt to suggest they could move from structured agendas
to a more natural rhythm. Hmm I obviously should have thought more on it
before posting because that audience and this one are not the same! Still,
I learned much here!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

Sara Evans <sunrayemomi@...> wrote:
>Sorry
> for derailing the discussion with unclear thoughts...

Not a problem - I'm glad you weren't offended by my response. Going off on tangents and digging down into underlying ideas and assumptions is one of the ways people learn.

---Meredith

sandi_xander

A friend of mine went super simple with the laundry. Each child has a laundry basket for clean clothing. As clothes come out of the dryer, they get placed directly into the correct basket. When kids get dressed, they just find what they'd like out of their basket. Since clothes were getting jumbled in the drawers anyway, it doesn't matter that they're also jumbled in the baskets.
I frequently set a timer and try to "beat the clock" to complete a task. Usually it's a 5 or 10 minute timer and sometimes my child decides to join in. The key is to actually just "be done" when the timer goes off, even if the task isn't completed.
Have fun finding ways to cut corners that work for you.
Sandi

lvhomeschool

Hi Kristie,It sounds like you had a wonderful day!
I use an app on my Iphone called Home Routines which is set up similar
to Flylady's system. But I keep it pretty simple. I don't follow
Flylady's zones or do zone cleaning at all really. Motivated Mom's has
an Iphone app now also which I've not tried. But I have tried her
printable paper checklists in the past. And I know there is a Flylady
type app in the Android store which looks pretty neat also.
~Melissa~







--- In [email protected], "messy_boys" <messy_boys@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if you would share about how you handle housework and
the everyday type chores that need done?
>
> Today has been really great; we caught some moths and looked them up
online; we watered the plants around the house; we rode bikes out front;
and then the kids played in the sprinkler. Then it was mudpie time, and
they also had great fun using a hammer to nail large screws into the
ground.
>
> But...nothing got done in the house! And now I feel overwhelmed by
the sheer volume of it all: laundry, dishes, floors, and picking up.
>
> I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids.
Any ideas appreciated!
>
> Kristie
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan Caisse

"But...nothing got done in the house! And now I feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it all: laundry, dishes, floors, and picking up. 

I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids. Any ideas appreciated!"


I have the same problem!  I always say "Someday I will have a clean house!"  I try to do Monday and Friday clean ups.  I have a thing about dirty dishes in the sink or on the counters so I tend to get those and laundry washed on a daily basis.  The laundry doesn't always get folded right away, it sort of piles up on the couch and I spend an hour folding it when I get sick of looking at it!  Even when I do get a good cleaning done, by the end of the day you wouldn't even know that I touched it!  Someday when the children are grown up my house will be clean and that is just how it is for me right now!   I hope some one has some good advice.  I am having the same issue!  


Just enjoy the precious time you have with your children!  : )

Susan





________________________________







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jen Youst

>>>I use an app on my Iphone called Home Routines which is set up similar
to Flylady's system.<<<

I¹ve used the Home Routines app, and it does work great for people who need
structure ‹ especially if you have a large home with a lot of ³zones². I¹ve
tried everything to keep up my house while also being there for my kids ‹
and, I can¹t do it. I had to let a lot of things go. When I realized that I
didn¹t like doing that, and I felt very uncomfortable with our surroundings,
I knew I needed help. I am not one to pay for help, but paying a service to
help us clean the house every other week has been a load lifted off my
shoulders. I don¹t even have them do everything ‹ just the tedious things
that take a lot of time and effort. I¹m not sure if it¹s in your budget or
not, but if it is, it¹s definitely worth looking into. Perhaps you could
even enlist a kid home from college this summer and see if you like having
the help (it takes awhile to get used to someone shuffling around your house
doing what you¹re used to doing.) I know, for me at least, it has been
wonderful, and I am spending more time than ever just being with the kids
(and I don¹t hate laundry as much now!)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marie Tindall

I swap with a friend usually 3-4 hours/ once/month kind of thing to deal with the pile ups and get everything manageable again.
The kids play together and we do what we need to do. We are happy the kids are happy.

Peace & Joy
Marie
xoxo

Meredith

<mytillytwo@...> wrote:
>I hope some one has some good advice.  I am having the same issue!

I want to point out that this isn't just an unschooling issue - plenty of homeschoolers have the same complaint, and school parents say pretty much the same things during longer vacation times.

Houses stay easily clean when people aren't using them. When people are busily, actively using a space, tidiness is secondary. There's a great line, somewhere in the Blog of the Zombie Princess which goes something like this: we're homeschoolers, we live here, we're home a lot, You Can Tell. Think of people you know who have cluttered desks and messy workshops - unschooling homes are the offices and workshops of our kids, and you can tell. The evidence of their busy, engaged lives is all around.

Sometimes it helps to remember that, to look around at mess and clutter and see instead a kind of visual record. A plate and cup means someone remembered to eat - great! A crumpled pair of pants tells you someone put clean clothes on today - hooray! A sea of legos speaks of construction projects, dramatic play, problem solving, maybe some cooperation, too. A swath of paper scraps is evidence of some fantastic artistic endeavor.

I can't find that Zombie Princess quote, but here's a nice post on the subject of housework and shifting perspectives.
http://zombieprincess.blogspot.com/2008/12/house-work.html

---Meredith

[email protected]

That day will come very soon. Enjoy the kids now and have a clean house later.

Nance


--- In [email protected], Susan Caisse <mytillytwo@...> wrote:
>
> "But...nothing got done in the house! And now I feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it all: laundry, dishes, floors, and picking up. 
>
> I almost feel like I have to pick one: house, chores, etc. OR kids. Any ideas appreciated!"
>
>
> I have the same problem!  I always say "Someday I will have a clean house!"  I try to do Monday and Friday clean ups.  I have a thing about dirty dishes in the sink or on the counters so I tend to get those and laundry washed on a daily basis.  The laundry doesn't always get folded right away, it sort of piles up on the couch and I spend an hour folding it when I get sick of looking at it!  Even when I do get a good cleaning done, by the end of the day you wouldn't even know that I touched it!  Someday when the children are grown up my house will be clean and that is just how it is for me right now!   I hope some one has some good advice.  I am having the same issue!  
>
>
> Just enjoy the precious time you have with your children!  : )
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>