Bedtime~
universalgenre
Hi everybody~
I've been with you all for a few months now, reading, learning, unlearning. Thank you for all your contributions. I am really in awe of those who followed this path before any of these such resources were available. I am humbled and thankful to all the parents for sharing their hard earned wisdom on this front. For those of us beginning this new chapter in our journeys, you all are a priceless blessing.
So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old and bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions would be for a 21 month old.
Here is some background: we've been co-sleeping from the very beginning with a very brief intermission ( 2 weeks actually) of letting him fall asleep in our bed then transferring him to the crib, where after sleeping a few hours unaware, he would quietly wake up, stand to his feet, and remind me that he doesn't belong there. I'd pick him up and he'd immediately fall back to sleep in our bed. There was never any crying, just a gentle reminder on his part of where he should be sleeping. It took a couple of weeks for us to get a clue. After being awakened from a deep sleep every night for 2 weeks, we came around and we are now happily all together, at least once sleep commences.
We have a bedtime ritual. It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time. He gets his last drink of milk before morning, we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and couple of songs. All of which he enjoys. The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep. (If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling asleep.
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa haa..kangaroo...haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self regulating sleep.)
All that being said, I am completely open to trying it again, IF you AMAZING trail blazers out there have had success with it at or around his age. I can deal with the lack of sleep if I know that there is a strong possibility that we will reach the promised land.
Your thoughts are eagerly anticipated and appreciated...
Genesis mom to Sage (21 mo)
I've been with you all for a few months now, reading, learning, unlearning. Thank you for all your contributions. I am really in awe of those who followed this path before any of these such resources were available. I am humbled and thankful to all the parents for sharing their hard earned wisdom on this front. For those of us beginning this new chapter in our journeys, you all are a priceless blessing.
So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old and bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions would be for a 21 month old.
Here is some background: we've been co-sleeping from the very beginning with a very brief intermission ( 2 weeks actually) of letting him fall asleep in our bed then transferring him to the crib, where after sleeping a few hours unaware, he would quietly wake up, stand to his feet, and remind me that he doesn't belong there. I'd pick him up and he'd immediately fall back to sleep in our bed. There was never any crying, just a gentle reminder on his part of where he should be sleeping. It took a couple of weeks for us to get a clue. After being awakened from a deep sleep every night for 2 weeks, we came around and we are now happily all together, at least once sleep commences.
We have a bedtime ritual. It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time. He gets his last drink of milk before morning, we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and couple of songs. All of which he enjoys. The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep. (If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling asleep.
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa haa..kangaroo...haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self regulating sleep.)
All that being said, I am completely open to trying it again, IF you AMAZING trail blazers out there have had success with it at or around his age. I can deal with the lack of sleep if I know that there is a strong possibility that we will reach the promised land.
Your thoughts are eagerly anticipated and appreciated...
Genesis mom to Sage (21 mo)
Tammy Curry
Bedtimes have been something we have been learning to let go of in our home. Our 10 yr old daughter still occasionally pops in bed with me but for the most part has decided that her bedroom is much more comfortable. Our 4 yr old alternates where he sleeps. Usually where he passes out (he literally just keeps going until his body says stop, he will lay down to "take a rest" and be asleep within minutes), either the living room on the sleep sofa watching a show or curled up with mommy. Daddy works night shift now so except for 2 nights a week it is just mommy. My son was born a night owl and naps? That isn't necessarily in his vocabulary and really never has been. However, I have noticed that on days where he has expended most of his energy he settles down a lot sooner than on days where he hasn't felt like doing much of anything. The best advice I can give is something my mother in law told me when my daughter was born. Sleep when the baby sleeps, it may
not be convenient for anyone else but if mommy doesn't take care to get rest too then there are real problems.
If your husband needs to be up early then maybe being in another room so he can get some sleep while you and your son read and sing and play. It might be easier to let him get that extra energy out that way and then carry him to bed. You can also simply explain that daddy needs to get some rest. Trying to have him sleep in his own bed before he is ready will just make everyone miserable. A crib mattress feels very different than a regular mattress, which is what he is used to. Perhaps a big boy bed for him to get used to so that when he is ready to make the change over it doesn't feel weird to him. By weird you know that feeling you get sleeping some place other than your own bed, or at least I get that, kids get it too. It just doesn't feel right. Also, a little lavender oil in the bath water before bed helps to relax. We also do stories and songs and then we turn down the lights and sometimes turn them off, snuggle up close, and we make up stories and
take make believe adventures, I can't count how many nights my son has fallen asleep in the middle of an adventure. His falling asleep in the living room is a recent thing, though usually he wakes up and wanders in and curls up next to mommy to finish out the night. We might have one more drink of chocolate milk at that point, sometimes we don't. He still likes his milk warm even though he doesn't want mommy milk anymore.
I hope this helps, sorry for rambling I am very tired tonight.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: universalgenre <universalgenre@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 5:53:46 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtime~
Hi everybody~
I've been with you all for a few months now, reading, learning, unlearning. Thank you for all your contributions. I am really in awe of those who followed this path before any of these such resources were available. I am humbled and thankful to all the parents for sharing their hard earned wisdom on this front. For those of us beginning this new chapter in our journeys, you all are a priceless blessing.
So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old and bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions would be for a 21 month old.
Here is some background: we've been co-sleeping from the very beginning with a very brief intermission ( 2 weeks actually) of letting him fall asleep in our bed then transferring him to the crib, where after sleeping a few hours unaware, he would quietly wake up, stand to his feet, and remind me that he doesn't belong there. I'd pick him up and he'd immediately fall back to sleep in our bed. There was never any crying, just a gentle reminder on his part of where he should be sleeping. It took a couple of weeks for us to get a clue. After being awakened from a deep sleep every night for 2 weeks, we came around and we are now happily all together, at least once sleep commences.
We have a bedtime ritual. It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time. He gets his last drink of milk before morning, we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and couple of songs. All of which he enjoys. The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep. (If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling asleep.
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa haa..kangaroo. ..haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self regulating
sleep.)
All that being said, I am completely open to trying it again, IF you AMAZING trail blazers out there have had success with it at or around his age. I can deal with the lack of sleep if I know that there is a strong possibility that we will reach the promised land.
Your thoughts are eagerly anticipated and appreciated. ..
Genesis mom to Sage (21 mo)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
not be convenient for anyone else but if mommy doesn't take care to get rest too then there are real problems.
If your husband needs to be up early then maybe being in another room so he can get some sleep while you and your son read and sing and play. It might be easier to let him get that extra energy out that way and then carry him to bed. You can also simply explain that daddy needs to get some rest. Trying to have him sleep in his own bed before he is ready will just make everyone miserable. A crib mattress feels very different than a regular mattress, which is what he is used to. Perhaps a big boy bed for him to get used to so that when he is ready to make the change over it doesn't feel weird to him. By weird you know that feeling you get sleeping some place other than your own bed, or at least I get that, kids get it too. It just doesn't feel right. Also, a little lavender oil in the bath water before bed helps to relax. We also do stories and songs and then we turn down the lights and sometimes turn them off, snuggle up close, and we make up stories and
take make believe adventures, I can't count how many nights my son has fallen asleep in the middle of an adventure. His falling asleep in the living room is a recent thing, though usually he wakes up and wanders in and curls up next to mommy to finish out the night. We might have one more drink of chocolate milk at that point, sometimes we don't. He still likes his milk warm even though he doesn't want mommy milk anymore.
I hope this helps, sorry for rambling I am very tired tonight.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: universalgenre <universalgenre@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 5:53:46 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Bedtime~
Hi everybody~
I've been with you all for a few months now, reading, learning, unlearning. Thank you for all your contributions. I am really in awe of those who followed this path before any of these such resources were available. I am humbled and thankful to all the parents for sharing their hard earned wisdom on this front. For those of us beginning this new chapter in our journeys, you all are a priceless blessing.
So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old and bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions would be for a 21 month old.
Here is some background: we've been co-sleeping from the very beginning with a very brief intermission ( 2 weeks actually) of letting him fall asleep in our bed then transferring him to the crib, where after sleeping a few hours unaware, he would quietly wake up, stand to his feet, and remind me that he doesn't belong there. I'd pick him up and he'd immediately fall back to sleep in our bed. There was never any crying, just a gentle reminder on his part of where he should be sleeping. It took a couple of weeks for us to get a clue. After being awakened from a deep sleep every night for 2 weeks, we came around and we are now happily all together, at least once sleep commences.
We have a bedtime ritual. It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time. He gets his last drink of milk before morning, we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and couple of songs. All of which he enjoys. The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep. (If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling asleep.
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa haa..kangaroo. ..haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self regulating
sleep.)
All that being said, I am completely open to trying it again, IF you AMAZING trail blazers out there have had success with it at or around his age. I can deal with the lack of sleep if I know that there is a strong possibility that we will reach the promised land.
Your thoughts are eagerly anticipated and appreciated. ..
Genesis mom to Sage (21 mo)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda Mayan
Our daughter, Maya, now 2 ½ has never had a bed time. She has always slept
with us, though in the last week, at her own request (perhaps inspired by a
friends new bed) she has begun to sleep in a bed-roll on the side of our
bed
She has always generally gone to bed with us, which tends to be between 10
and 11. If I notice that she is showing signs of being tired before then,
then we dim the lights and I let her nurse to sleep while we are still
reading or watching TV in the living room even then she will resist heading
to bed (but not sleep) if its not a group activity .on the other hand,
sometimes she requests that we head to bed, which we do even if its for the
10 minutes that it takes her to drift off while dad isnt allowed to touch
her while she is falling asleep, it is important to her that we are all
there when possible so I guess that is our only routine. Sometimes we are
tired before Maya is, when this happens, Maya brings her DVD into the
bedroom and watches quietly (on the lowest brightness setting) between us
while we sleep/ rest she always awakes me when she is ready for sleep, and
then we cuddle and nurse (or have a drink of juice in an insulated cup so
that I dont have to get out of bed) on Friday we went to sleep around 11,
and she went around 1:30.
I would suggest that you not begin your routine until you son shows the
early signs of tiredness, but make sure not to wait until he is over
tired sometimes that will cause an inability to fall asleep. Also, notice if
maybe the DVD is too stimulating for him if that seems to cause him to
remain awake longer, maybe a small reading light and some books or toys he
can play with quietly will work better. Dimming the lights wherever you are
as bed time (for any member of the household) approaches is also a good
idea. Sometimes I will also encourage Maya to rest with us in the dark
room for about 10 minutes, with the promise to turn on her DVD after a quick
nurse or rest more often than not, she is asleep before long I just never
make it a struggle or an issue she never wants to leave any perceived action
or fun, so we just adjust our environment to become more conducive to her
drifting off, if we are not in bed yet (have friends over, are into a movie,
ect )
Good luck!
-Amanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with us, though in the last week, at her own request (perhaps inspired by a
friends new bed) she has begun to sleep in a bed-roll on the side of our
bed
She has always generally gone to bed with us, which tends to be between 10
and 11. If I notice that she is showing signs of being tired before then,
then we dim the lights and I let her nurse to sleep while we are still
reading or watching TV in the living room even then she will resist heading
to bed (but not sleep) if its not a group activity .on the other hand,
sometimes she requests that we head to bed, which we do even if its for the
10 minutes that it takes her to drift off while dad isnt allowed to touch
her while she is falling asleep, it is important to her that we are all
there when possible so I guess that is our only routine. Sometimes we are
tired before Maya is, when this happens, Maya brings her DVD into the
bedroom and watches quietly (on the lowest brightness setting) between us
while we sleep/ rest she always awakes me when she is ready for sleep, and
then we cuddle and nurse (or have a drink of juice in an insulated cup so
that I dont have to get out of bed) on Friday we went to sleep around 11,
and she went around 1:30.
I would suggest that you not begin your routine until you son shows the
early signs of tiredness, but make sure not to wait until he is over
tired sometimes that will cause an inability to fall asleep. Also, notice if
maybe the DVD is too stimulating for him if that seems to cause him to
remain awake longer, maybe a small reading light and some books or toys he
can play with quietly will work better. Dimming the lights wherever you are
as bed time (for any member of the household) approaches is also a good
idea. Sometimes I will also encourage Maya to rest with us in the dark
room for about 10 minutes, with the promise to turn on her DVD after a quick
nurse or rest more often than not, she is asleep before long I just never
make it a struggle or an issue she never wants to leave any perceived action
or fun, so we just adjust our environment to become more conducive to her
drifting off, if we are not in bed yet (have friends over, are into a movie,
ect )
Good luck!
-Amanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 26, 2009, at 5:53 PM, universalgenre wrote:
anyone else ;-)
If you're picturing removing the routines and him falling asleep when
he decides he's tired, it's probably not going to happen. Considering
the stories that have wandered through here about sleep, the best way
to help kids to transition sleep is what ever works for a particular
child ;-) Some people quiet the atmosphere. Some people get out the
mini-trampolines ;-)
I suspect if he's fighting sleep he's become intellectually aware
that sleep means putting life on hold and he doesn't want to stop.
Probably what will help most is less focus on where you want him to
be (asleep) and more acceptance of life having warts.
If he feels pressure from you to go to sleep, if he feels his choice
is taken away, it will increase his fight. If your attitude is one of
acceptance that it's okay to not like how life is, then it will be
easier for him to accept. Sometimes people just want their feelings
acknowledged. It might seem like too much thought for a 21 month old
but he might understand "It's too bad humans need to sleep! What kind
of great things can we do in the morning?" And go through some fun
things. So like with other transitions, less focus on what's being
left and more focus on what's coming up. :-)
That's *not* your only option. Some mothers are night owls like their
kids -- they find their kids *can't* fall asleep early -- so stay up
with their kids until 1 or 2 in the morning. Robyn Coburn shifts with
her daughter who is on a day that's longer than 24 hours so their
sleep period drifts through the day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fallHe was self regulating, just not on a schedule that was convenient to
> asleep at his leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he
> could self regulate.
anyone else ;-)
If you're picturing removing the routines and him falling asleep when
he decides he's tired, it's probably not going to happen. Considering
the stories that have wandered through here about sleep, the best way
to help kids to transition sleep is what ever works for a particular
child ;-) Some people quiet the atmosphere. Some people get out the
mini-trampolines ;-)
I suspect if he's fighting sleep he's become intellectually aware
that sleep means putting life on hold and he doesn't want to stop.
Probably what will help most is less focus on where you want him to
be (asleep) and more acceptance of life having warts.
If he feels pressure from you to go to sleep, if he feels his choice
is taken away, it will increase his fight. If your attitude is one of
acceptance that it's okay to not like how life is, then it will be
easier for him to accept. Sometimes people just want their feelings
acknowledged. It might seem like too much thought for a 21 month old
but he might understand "It's too bad humans need to sleep! What kind
of great things can we do in the morning?" And go through some fun
things. So like with other transitions, less focus on what's being
left and more focus on what's coming up. :-)
That's *not* your only option. Some mothers are night owls like their
kids -- they find their kids *can't* fall asleep early -- so stay up
with their kids until 1 or 2 in the morning. Robyn Coburn shifts with
her daughter who is on a day that's longer than 24 hours so their
sleep period drifts through the day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
I think you have to do what works for you and your family. We have bedtime routines, they help our kids sleep. We dont have arbitrary bedtimes but we still go through the routines and sometimes, they help the kids go to sleep. Sometimes they dont and we turn on a movie or something. Knowing when to start the routines for us is extremely important. Recognizing the sleepiness at just the right time.
universalgenre
Thanks so much for each of the responses. I got a lot of juicy stuff to think about. I realized upon reading them that I've been feeling the need of going to bed with my husband, not because he insists, he doesn't at all. But because I have a really fantastic man who relishes in his cuddle time with us all in the evenings. He so loves being a part of it all and it is just beautiful to watch him cuddle up next to daddy as he drifts off. He goes to work so early in the morning we are asleep before he leaves. He works so hard, I feel like I want him to share in the joys of bedtime together. That being said, I realize now, that it has been at the expense of my son's autonomy. He and I need to talk of other ways to help him to feel more connected and a part of things.
<He was self regulating, just not on a schedule that was convenient to
anyone else ;-)>
...and there it is. Thank you Joyce. It's crazy how you sometimes cant see the trees for the forest.
I am looking forward to sharing this information with my husband and hearing his thoughts. I am excited about the new ideas I've been given. It was really helpful to also hear about another's youngster falling asleep on their own Amanda, thank you for the inspiration. I get it. Lots to talk about when the hubby gets home today. Thanks to each of you for helping me to clarify MY issue about the whole bedtime thing. I love this process of unlearning. I love these Eureka moments!
genesis
<He was self regulating, just not on a schedule that was convenient to
anyone else ;-)>
...and there it is. Thank you Joyce. It's crazy how you sometimes cant see the trees for the forest.
I am looking forward to sharing this information with my husband and hearing his thoughts. I am excited about the new ideas I've been given. It was really helpful to also hear about another's youngster falling asleep on their own Amanda, thank you for the inspiration. I get it. Lots to talk about when the hubby gets home today. Thanks to each of you for helping me to clarify MY issue about the whole bedtime thing. I love this process of unlearning. I love these Eureka moments!
genesis
Faith Void
OP: So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old and
bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and
searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards
older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions
would be for a 21 month old.
***It might help to shift from bedtime to awareness of sleepiness (or
something similar). Gently guiding him towards the recognition of being
sleepy and needing rest.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OP: We have a bedtime ritual.
***Perhaps a shift towards a routine. A ritual is something that is always
done, traditionally. A routine is a set of things that is typically done but
can be changed. Personally, I find the semantics changes my perspective.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OP: It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time.
He gets his last drink of milk before morning,
***Why is it the last drink? What happens if he becomes thirsty after this?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==-==-=-=-==-=-=-
OP: we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and
couple of songs. All of which he enjoys.
***That sounds like a nice routine. Who initiates this, you or the child? Do
you look for clues to his tiredness or is it done at an arbitrary time?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-
The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used
to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out
of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep.
(If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other
songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing
them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle
in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling
asleep.
***Could you ask him if he is ready for the special sleepy song? If he isn't
then you could assess what he needs and offer him some options. Like would
you like another story or a song? I would wait for my child to show signs of
readiness to sleep. I would try not to be attach to him falling asleep (I
know when I am they take 5xs as long to fall asleep). He may be hearing the
sleepy song as a demand for him to perform (fall asleep on cue) and is
exercising his autonomy.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his
leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My
Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he
would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I
were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up
into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I
just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just
completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the
morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and
sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I
began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of
us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa
haa..kangaroo...haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self
regulating sleep.)
***I tend to steer clear of thinking of my child rearing as a experiment. It
might help for you to gently allow him more and more freedom in terms of his
controlling his sleep schedule. He may not have the same rhythm as you. And
a gentle flow towards more freedom gives you both time to adjust. He seems
to be feeling usurped. Your need for him to sleep is trumping his
desire/need to stay awake or at least control his sleep rhythms.
It seems like you were doing ok. Why the sudden change? What were your
thoughts when you were having a fun time hanging out with sweet baby at 3
am? Was it because you were tired or because you thought he "ought" to be in
bed?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have three children, my youngest is 19 months. We have a loose routine. We
play and do our thing until we notice that she is getting tired. Then my dh
takes responsibility of the older kids and I take the baby. She will
generally take my hand and led me to the stairs and say "nur" and we got lay
down. I will sing or talk to her while she falls asleep. If she nurses and
doesn't fall asleep I will ask her if she wasn't a back run or to read or to
get up. Then we do that. That's about all. Usually we do bath and teeth at
some point after the sun goes down. Sometime we skip it if she is really
tired. We do book reading and singing at other times so it isn't something
we generally do at sleep time. My oldest two fell asleep much the same way.
They are 12 and 6. The 6 still sleeps with us and will just say his tired
and ask for what he wants. If we notice that someone seems tired we mention
it. My oldest needs music or an audio book to fall asleep. Sometimes TV but
only things she has already seen.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and
searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards
older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions
would be for a 21 month old.
***It might help to shift from bedtime to awareness of sleepiness (or
something similar). Gently guiding him towards the recognition of being
sleepy and needing rest.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OP: We have a bedtime ritual.
***Perhaps a shift towards a routine. A ritual is something that is always
done, traditionally. A routine is a set of things that is typically done but
can be changed. Personally, I find the semantics changes my perspective.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OP: It didn't start off this way, but it evolved into what it is over time.
He gets his last drink of milk before morning,
***Why is it the last drink? What happens if he becomes thirsty after this?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==-==-=-=-==-=-=-
OP: we all go to brush our teeth and hop in bed for about 3-6 books and
couple of songs. All of which he enjoys.
***That sounds like a nice routine. Who initiates this, you or the child? Do
you look for clues to his tiredness or is it done at an arbitrary time?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-
The coup de gras of our evening, our homemade sleepy time song which he used
to love, but now often yields whining and tears and him trying to crawl out
of bed for about 10 minutes before he finally settles in and goes to sleep.
(If I don't sing the song, he just keeps saying "more, MORE" with the other
songs I am singing and ends up staying awake for an hour or more singing
them with me. When he hears the bedtime song, he knows it is time to settle
in.)I am looking for ideas to help him have a better experience of falling
asleep.
***Could you ask him if he is ready for the special sleepy song? If he isn't
then you could assess what he needs and offer him some options. Like would
you like another story or a song? I would wait for my child to show signs of
readiness to sleep. I would try not to be attach to him falling asleep (I
know when I am they take 5xs as long to fall asleep). He may be hearing the
sleepy song as a demand for him to perform (fall asleep on cue) and is
exercising his autonomy.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-
When my son was about 17 months, I tried allowing him to fall asleep at his
leisure, an experiment to see if at this age, he could self regulate. My
Thinking was that perhaps if he was able to choose when he falls asleep, he
would have no reason to resent it. I tried for 2 weeks and my husband and I
were EXHAUSTED (But I hope we didn't give up to soon.) He was staying up
into the wee hours of the morning, naps were obviously thrown off as well. I
just didn't see a positive outcome on the horizon. We were all just
completely wiped out (well, our son wasn't. He was quite happy at 3 in the
morning watching his favorite video, Planet Earth, asking me to name and
sign all the animals that would come on the screen. At one point I think I
began to laugh maniacally and he started laughing with me. Both of
us...laughing while I continue to shout out the animals...haa
haa..kangaroo...haa haa...Caribou! I think that was the last night of self
regulating sleep.)
***I tend to steer clear of thinking of my child rearing as a experiment. It
might help for you to gently allow him more and more freedom in terms of his
controlling his sleep schedule. He may not have the same rhythm as you. And
a gentle flow towards more freedom gives you both time to adjust. He seems
to be feeling usurped. Your need for him to sleep is trumping his
desire/need to stay awake or at least control his sleep rhythms.
It seems like you were doing ok. Why the sudden change? What were your
thoughts when you were having a fun time hanging out with sweet baby at 3
am? Was it because you were tired or because you thought he "ought" to be in
bed?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have three children, my youngest is 19 months. We have a loose routine. We
play and do our thing until we notice that she is getting tired. Then my dh
takes responsibility of the older kids and I take the baby. She will
generally take my hand and led me to the stairs and say "nur" and we got lay
down. I will sing or talk to her while she falls asleep. If she nurses and
doesn't fall asleep I will ask her if she wasn't a back run or to read or to
get up. Then we do that. That's about all. Usually we do bath and teeth at
some point after the sun goes down. Sometime we skip it if she is really
tired. We do book reading and singing at other times so it isn't something
we generally do at sleep time. My oldest two fell asleep much the same way.
They are 12 and 6. The 6 still sleeps with us and will just say his tired
and ask for what he wants. If we notice that someone seems tired we mention
it. My oldest needs music or an audio book to fall asleep. Sometimes TV but
only things she has already seen.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
>>>So I ask for your thoughts on bedtime. My son is 21 months old andbedtime is something he does not want to do. I went through the archives and
searched for old wisdom on this that might help, but most was geared towards
older children and I wasn't certain how applicable many of those suggestions
would be for a 21 month old.>>>>
Miranda, 11 months, gets tired....she asks to be picked up, then she points to the door to downstairs. We carry her downstairs, and she points at the bedroom, then points at the bed. We carry her and keep asking where she wants to go. Are you ready for bed? we ask. She crawls on the bed and lays on the pillows and we lay next to her and she nurses and we rub each other and cuddle and she falls asleep, and I watch a little tv and then shortly fall asleep, too. This is slightly different and mostly the same as the other kids (now 11 and almost 17), although they each had their own cues to tell me they were ready for bed. They all slept with us and nursed to sleep, and nursed occasionally throughout the night, for many years. Nights have always been peaceful and wonderful :)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
universalgenre
Thanks Miranda for sharing your experiences. I imagined that there were children who had no negative experiences of getting sleepy and falling asleep, but I didn't know what that looked like. Or how to help him get there. It really helped to hear your post.
Faith~ Wow. I really appreciate an opportunity to change something that is not serving me or my family. Thanks for helping me open doors.
***It might help to shift from bedtime to awareness of sleepiness (or
something similar). Gently guiding him towards the recognition of being
sleepy and needing rest.
Thanks for the distinction. I was well aware of when he wasn't sleepy, particularly around "Bedtime" but I think I rolled the two together. I looked for sleepiness around bedtime, instead of just being aware of him, without my agenda.
***Why is it the last drink? What happens if he becomes thirsty after this?
He asks me for more and I give him more. Usually, he only wants it once before bed and once in the morning.
***That sounds like a nice routine. Who initiates this, you or the child? Do
you look for clues to his tiredness or is it done at an arbitrary time?
I see your point. We usually initiate it...again at "bedtime" (I am seeing the pattern here...) but he does enjoy brushing teeth with us and for us, he doesn't even mind getting into bed & reading & singing, but when the sleepy song hits, he gets immediately annoyed. which brings me to your concluding response...
***Could you ask him if he is ready for the special sleepy song? If he isn't
then you could assess what he needs and offer him some options. Like would
you like another story or a song? I would wait for my child to show signs of
readiness to sleep. I would try not to be attach to him falling asleep (I
know when I am they take 5xs as long to fall asleep). He may be hearing the
sleepy song as a demand for him to perform (fall asleep on cue) and is
exercising his autonomy.
I see the manipulation I am performing here. No wonder he hates the song now. I don't blame him. Thanks for helping me shift my thinking about this.
Sleep is a sensitive issue in our family. My husband goes to bed fairly early as he is up for work mos days by 5am and I have never in my adult life been able to nap. Even when my son was an infant and was awake every 2 hours, I still didn't nap, initially I tried, but to no avail (Although, my body handled it without the naps, at this stage of my son's development, he is a busy little guy. I love every minute of it, but I am a better mother when I am rested.) I need to figure out how to respect my sons autonomy in regards to this issue, while still getting enough rest. I can go for a while on a lack of sleep but after about a week, I feel the wear.
genesis
Faith~ Wow. I really appreciate an opportunity to change something that is not serving me or my family. Thanks for helping me open doors.
***It might help to shift from bedtime to awareness of sleepiness (or
something similar). Gently guiding him towards the recognition of being
sleepy and needing rest.
Thanks for the distinction. I was well aware of when he wasn't sleepy, particularly around "Bedtime" but I think I rolled the two together. I looked for sleepiness around bedtime, instead of just being aware of him, without my agenda.
***Why is it the last drink? What happens if he becomes thirsty after this?
He asks me for more and I give him more. Usually, he only wants it once before bed and once in the morning.
***That sounds like a nice routine. Who initiates this, you or the child? Do
you look for clues to his tiredness or is it done at an arbitrary time?
I see your point. We usually initiate it...again at "bedtime" (I am seeing the pattern here...) but he does enjoy brushing teeth with us and for us, he doesn't even mind getting into bed & reading & singing, but when the sleepy song hits, he gets immediately annoyed. which brings me to your concluding response...
***Could you ask him if he is ready for the special sleepy song? If he isn't
then you could assess what he needs and offer him some options. Like would
you like another story or a song? I would wait for my child to show signs of
readiness to sleep. I would try not to be attach to him falling asleep (I
know when I am they take 5xs as long to fall asleep). He may be hearing the
sleepy song as a demand for him to perform (fall asleep on cue) and is
exercising his autonomy.
I see the manipulation I am performing here. No wonder he hates the song now. I don't blame him. Thanks for helping me shift my thinking about this.
Sleep is a sensitive issue in our family. My husband goes to bed fairly early as he is up for work mos days by 5am and I have never in my adult life been able to nap. Even when my son was an infant and was awake every 2 hours, I still didn't nap, initially I tried, but to no avail (Although, my body handled it without the naps, at this stage of my son's development, he is a busy little guy. I love every minute of it, but I am a better mother when I am rested.) I need to figure out how to respect my sons autonomy in regards to this issue, while still getting enough rest. I can go for a while on a lack of sleep but after about a week, I feel the wear.
genesis