Since I started saying yes....
Ren Allen
Sherri,
I hope you don't mind me picking a bit, but this phrase really
jumped out at me and I can't let it go:
"Last night as we
prepared thanksgiving dinner and all the adults were busy, she wanted
someone to play with her. "
Is it normal for the adults to "get busy" with their stuff and
exclude her? Why couldn't she help with the Thanksgiving dinner? I
know it can be hard to have an extra person underfoot, but I don't
think there are many things more disrespectful or frustrating for
children, than being told "we have to do x,y,z, you need to go play".
Children want to feel like they are welcome to do all the same
activities the adults in their lives are doing. If she's feeling
rejection on any level, then I'm quite sure that would account for
some of her behavior.
I'm thinking about this from her point of view. Mommy is not as fun
as she usually is, being large (this baby is already intruding into
her life) and tired. The adults are sending her off to do something
else, she'd probably like to feel important and involved. Then when
she acts out, everyone is looking at her with "that look" or being
upset and mad at her, poor dear is utterly confused, angry and
feeling rejected. I'd throw some fits too!!!:)
Maybe she needs to feel more welcome in the adult activities? If
family is the problem, stand up for her right to be involved.
Ren
I hope you don't mind me picking a bit, but this phrase really
jumped out at me and I can't let it go:
"Last night as we
prepared thanksgiving dinner and all the adults were busy, she wanted
someone to play with her. "
Is it normal for the adults to "get busy" with their stuff and
exclude her? Why couldn't she help with the Thanksgiving dinner? I
know it can be hard to have an extra person underfoot, but I don't
think there are many things more disrespectful or frustrating for
children, than being told "we have to do x,y,z, you need to go play".
Children want to feel like they are welcome to do all the same
activities the adults in their lives are doing. If she's feeling
rejection on any level, then I'm quite sure that would account for
some of her behavior.
I'm thinking about this from her point of view. Mommy is not as fun
as she usually is, being large (this baby is already intruding into
her life) and tired. The adults are sending her off to do something
else, she'd probably like to feel important and involved. Then when
she acts out, everyone is looking at her with "that look" or being
upset and mad at her, poor dear is utterly confused, angry and
feeling rejected. I'd throw some fits too!!!:)
Maybe she needs to feel more welcome in the adult activities? If
family is the problem, stand up for her right to be involved.
Ren
Sherri-Lee Pressman
Hi Ren,
I don't mind you picking a bit! I value your opinion.
And you are absolutely right. This was the first family dinner we have had
here since last Christmas. I didn't know she was going to be feeling
different about it than last year (she didn't care to help then) and she
wasn't able to articulate it this weekend. BUT eventually, I heard her
saying she wanted to do something and so I found her something to do and she
was so happy to be helping out taking food to the table etc. and the entire
atmosphere changed. And I said to my dh that she was needing to feel
included. So simple and yet sometimes it just takes so long to get it!
And then at dinner, she went around the table and asked everyone what they
were thankful for, without anyone prompting her to, just her idea. It was so
sweet.
You are right I have to include her in things more. Sometimes when I try she
says no and then I tend to forget or don't bother next time, but I can't do
that. Also I have a hard time figuring out things that she can do that will
set her up for success sometimes that won't result in cranberries on the
beige carpet, but I will work on it.
We have never not included her, I remember my dh having her help make salad
at a year and a half, I think the thing that has changed is she asks us to
leave our task to play with her and doesn't ask to be included in ours
anymore... so we just need to adjust to that I guess.
Thanks for bringing this up,
Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Since I started saying yes....
Sherri,
I hope you don't mind me picking a bit, but this phrase really
jumped out at me and I can't let it go:
"Last night as we
prepared thanksgiving dinner and all the adults were busy, she wanted
someone to play with her. "
Is it normal for the adults to "get busy" with their stuff and
exclude her? Why couldn't she help with the Thanksgiving dinner? I
know it can be hard to have an extra person underfoot, but I don't
think there are many things more disrespectful or frustrating for
children, than being told "we have to do x,y,z, you need to go play".
Children want to feel like they are welcome to do all the same
activities the adults in their lives are doing. If she's feeling
rejection on any level, then I'm quite sure that would account for
some of her behavior.
I'm thinking about this from her point of view. Mommy is not as fun
as she usually is, being large (this baby is already intruding into
her life) and tired. The adults are sending her off to do something
else, she'd probably like to feel important and involved. Then when
she acts out, everyone is looking at her with "that look" or being
upset and mad at her, poor dear is utterly confused, angry and
feeling rejected. I'd throw some fits too!!!:)
Maybe she needs to feel more welcome in the adult activities? If
family is the problem, stand up for her right to be involved.
Ren
I don't mind you picking a bit! I value your opinion.
And you are absolutely right. This was the first family dinner we have had
here since last Christmas. I didn't know she was going to be feeling
different about it than last year (she didn't care to help then) and she
wasn't able to articulate it this weekend. BUT eventually, I heard her
saying she wanted to do something and so I found her something to do and she
was so happy to be helping out taking food to the table etc. and the entire
atmosphere changed. And I said to my dh that she was needing to feel
included. So simple and yet sometimes it just takes so long to get it!
And then at dinner, she went around the table and asked everyone what they
were thankful for, without anyone prompting her to, just her idea. It was so
sweet.
You are right I have to include her in things more. Sometimes when I try she
says no and then I tend to forget or don't bother next time, but I can't do
that. Also I have a hard time figuring out things that she can do that will
set her up for success sometimes that won't result in cranberries on the
beige carpet, but I will work on it.
We have never not included her, I remember my dh having her help make salad
at a year and a half, I think the thing that has changed is she asks us to
leave our task to play with her and doesn't ask to be included in ours
anymore... so we just need to adjust to that I guess.
Thanks for bringing this up,
Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Since I started saying yes....
Sherri,
I hope you don't mind me picking a bit, but this phrase really
jumped out at me and I can't let it go:
"Last night as we
prepared thanksgiving dinner and all the adults were busy, she wanted
someone to play with her. "
Is it normal for the adults to "get busy" with their stuff and
exclude her? Why couldn't she help with the Thanksgiving dinner? I
know it can be hard to have an extra person underfoot, but I don't
think there are many things more disrespectful or frustrating for
children, than being told "we have to do x,y,z, you need to go play".
Children want to feel like they are welcome to do all the same
activities the adults in their lives are doing. If she's feeling
rejection on any level, then I'm quite sure that would account for
some of her behavior.
I'm thinking about this from her point of view. Mommy is not as fun
as she usually is, being large (this baby is already intruding into
her life) and tired. The adults are sending her off to do something
else, she'd probably like to feel important and involved. Then when
she acts out, everyone is looking at her with "that look" or being
upset and mad at her, poor dear is utterly confused, angry and
feeling rejected. I'd throw some fits too!!!:)
Maybe she needs to feel more welcome in the adult activities? If
family is the problem, stand up for her right to be involved.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/12/2004 11:12:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:
And then at dinner, she went around the table and asked everyone what they
were thankful for, without anyone prompting her to, just her idea. It was so
sweet.<<<
Probably got that idea from TV! <BWG> That's where Duncan heard it! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sherri--lee@... writes:
And then at dinner, she went around the table and asked everyone what they
were thankful for, without anyone prompting her to, just her idea. It was so
sweet.<<<
Probably got that idea from TV! <BWG> That's where Duncan heard it! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Oct 12, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Sherri-Lee Pressman wrote:
My DS (now 5) really loves to help me cook/bake. He doesn't stay with
me the whole time - and I don't expect him to - but he'll help set up
ingredients or grab something from the fridge for me. Mostly, he likes
to *add* the ingredients to the bowl/pot and then go watch some more TV
or whatever else he's playing with. If I'm making soup he wants to
scoop the chopped veggies off the cutting board into the pot. Pour
rice into the pot. Help stir things into soups or stews. Add the
sifted flour to the mixing bowl. Dump in the chocolate chips. You get
the idea. ;)
Last Thanksgiving he helped me make homemade cranberry sauce (my first
not from a can!) and he totally dug it. He even ate some of it because
HE made it. It was so simple to make and really yummy. He's been
asking me to make it again but I haven't been able to find fresh
cranberries here (much less organic ones! LOL). When we see them in
stores again soon we'll be making it again and definitely for
Thanksgiving and Yule dinners. He's so proud of himself for being able
to cook it himself and he really *glows* when I make sure to tell DH
that he helped to make _____ for our meal. It's great to be able to
provide the opportunities for him to be able to Shine!
-Tracy-
> [Also I have a hard time figuring out things that she can do that willPut down a drop cloth and don't sweat it if she slops a little. ;)
> set her up for success sometimes that won't result in cranberries
> on the beige carpet, but I will work on it.]
My DS (now 5) really loves to help me cook/bake. He doesn't stay with
me the whole time - and I don't expect him to - but he'll help set up
ingredients or grab something from the fridge for me. Mostly, he likes
to *add* the ingredients to the bowl/pot and then go watch some more TV
or whatever else he's playing with. If I'm making soup he wants to
scoop the chopped veggies off the cutting board into the pot. Pour
rice into the pot. Help stir things into soups or stews. Add the
sifted flour to the mixing bowl. Dump in the chocolate chips. You get
the idea. ;)
Last Thanksgiving he helped me make homemade cranberry sauce (my first
not from a can!) and he totally dug it. He even ate some of it because
HE made it. It was so simple to make and really yummy. He's been
asking me to make it again but I haven't been able to find fresh
cranberries here (much less organic ones! LOL). When we see them in
stores again soon we'll be making it again and definitely for
Thanksgiving and Yule dinners. He's so proud of himself for being able
to cook it himself and he really *glows* when I make sure to tell DH
that he helped to make _____ for our meal. It's great to be able to
provide the opportunities for him to be able to Shine!
-Tracy-
Daniel MacIntyre
That's one of my son's favorite things too! He especially loves
stirring. He's very careful when I'm stir frying, but he handles it
like a champ!
Daniel
stirring. He's very careful when I'm stir frying, but he handles it
like a champ!
Daniel
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:05:06 -0400, TreeGoddess <treegoddess@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Sherri-Lee Pressman wrote:
>
> > [Also I have a hard time figuring out things that she can do that will
> > set her up for success sometimes that won't result in cranberries
> > on the beige carpet, but I will work on it.]
>
> Put down a drop cloth and don't sweat it if she slops a little. ;)
>
> My DS (now 5) really loves to help me cook/bake. He doesn't stay with
> me the whole time - and I don't expect him to - but he'll help set up
> ingredients or grab something from the fridge for me. Mostly, he likes
> to *add* the ingredients to the bowl/pot and then go watch some more TV
> or whatever else he's playing with. If I'm making soup he wants to
> scoop the chopped veggies off the cutting board into the pot. Pour
> rice into the pot. Help stir things into soups or stews. Add the
> sifted flour to the mixing bowl. Dump in the chocolate chips. You get
> the idea. ;)
>
> Last Thanksgiving he helped me make homemade cranberry sauce (my first
> not from a can!) and he totally dug it. He even ate some of it because
> HE made it. It was so simple to make and really yummy. He's been
> asking me to make it again but I haven't been able to find fresh
> cranberries here (much less organic ones! LOL). When we see them in
> stores again soon we'll be making it again and definitely for
> Thanksgiving and Yule dinners. He's so proud of himself for being able
> to cook it himself and he really *glows* when I make sure to tell DH
> that he helped to make _____ for our meal. It's great to be able to
> provide the opportunities for him to be able to Shine!
>
> -Tracy-
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Sherri-Lee Pressman
Hi Tracy,
OK... please don't take this the wrong way ok?
I hear what you are saying. Hannah helps me make food all the time, from
dinner, to salads to baking together. She is good at it. She is also very
scattered in her concentration. She is more worried that I am WATCHING her
to see her do it than if she is doing it well.
In this case we were eating in our dining room. We had a drop cloth down on
the floor around her chair, no problems with spills.
What I was referring to was, she was carrying the serving bowl of
cranberries from the kitchen to the dining room. I would need a 20 foot
sheet of plastic to cover that amount of carpet. It was the entire amount of
cranberries we had to eat, if it fell everyone would miss out on it for
dinner and everyone (including Hannah) loves to eat cranberries. Plus, this
is not just my carpet or Hannah's, it is her dad's as well and he pays to
have it cleaned and gets way more bothered by spills than I do.
So I let her carry things that wouldn't make a big mess and still through it
all, she was not watching the bowl to make sure it spilled, or where she was
going, she was watching us, to make sure each and everyone of us had
stopped what we were doing to watch her carrying it. At least twice if I
hadn't reached for the bowl and straightened it (because she was watching us
not the bowl) it would have spilled all over the place.
She is very distracted when doing these kinds of things and so I struggle to
find things that will set her up for success, since I KNOW if she dropped
it, she would be crying and sad for hours that she didn't do it right.
Anyway that is all I had to think about on this... as for the cranberries,
you can get very good frozen organic cranberries to make the cranberries
with in the freezer section, that is what we use all the time:)
Thanks for your thoughts,
Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Since I started saying yes....
OK... please don't take this the wrong way ok?
I hear what you are saying. Hannah helps me make food all the time, from
dinner, to salads to baking together. She is good at it. She is also very
scattered in her concentration. She is more worried that I am WATCHING her
to see her do it than if she is doing it well.
In this case we were eating in our dining room. We had a drop cloth down on
the floor around her chair, no problems with spills.
What I was referring to was, she was carrying the serving bowl of
cranberries from the kitchen to the dining room. I would need a 20 foot
sheet of plastic to cover that amount of carpet. It was the entire amount of
cranberries we had to eat, if it fell everyone would miss out on it for
dinner and everyone (including Hannah) loves to eat cranberries. Plus, this
is not just my carpet or Hannah's, it is her dad's as well and he pays to
have it cleaned and gets way more bothered by spills than I do.
So I let her carry things that wouldn't make a big mess and still through it
all, she was not watching the bowl to make sure it spilled, or where she was
going, she was watching us, to make sure each and everyone of us had
stopped what we were doing to watch her carrying it. At least twice if I
hadn't reached for the bowl and straightened it (because she was watching us
not the bowl) it would have spilled all over the place.
She is very distracted when doing these kinds of things and so I struggle to
find things that will set her up for success, since I KNOW if she dropped
it, she would be crying and sad for hours that she didn't do it right.
Anyway that is all I had to think about on this... as for the cranberries,
you can get very good frozen organic cranberries to make the cranberries
with in the freezer section, that is what we use all the time:)
Thanks for your thoughts,
Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Since I started saying yes....
On Oct 12, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Sherri-Lee Pressman wrote:
> [Also I have a hard time figuring out things that she can do that will
> set her up for success sometimes that won't result in cranberries
> on the beige carpet, but I will work on it.]
Put down a drop cloth and don't sweat it if she slops a little. ;)
My DS (now 5) really loves to help me cook/bake. He doesn't stay with
me the whole time - and I don't expect him to - but he'll help set up
ingredients or grab something from the fridge for me. Mostly, he likes
to *add* the ingredients to the bowl/pot and then go watch some more TV
or whatever else he's playing with. If I'm making soup he wants to
scoop the chopped veggies off the cutting board into the pot. Pour
rice into the pot. Help stir things into soups or stews. Add the
sifted flour to the mixing bowl. Dump in the chocolate chips. You get
the idea. ;)
Last Thanksgiving he helped me make homemade cranberry sauce (my first
not from a can!) and he totally dug it. He even ate some of it because
HE made it. It was so simple to make and really yummy. He's been
asking me to make it again but I haven't been able to find fresh
cranberries here (much less organic ones! LOL). When we see them in
stores again soon we'll be making it again and definitely for
Thanksgiving and Yule dinners. He's so proud of himself for being able
to cook it himself and he really *glows* when I make sure to tell DH
that he helped to make _____ for our meal. It's great to be able to
provide the opportunities for him to be able to Shine!
-Tracy-
Yahoo! Groups Links
Robyn Coburn
<<<<What I was referring to was, she was carrying the serving bowl of
cranberries from the kitchen to the dining room. I would need a 20 foot
sheet of plastic to cover that amount of carpet. It was the entire amount of
cranberries we had to eat, if it fell everyone would miss out on it for
dinner and everyone (including Hannah) loves to eat cranberries. Plus, this
is not just my carpet or Hannah's, it is her dad's as well and he pays to
have it cleaned and gets way more bothered by spills than I do.
So I let her carry things that wouldn't make a big mess and still through it
all, she was not watching the bowl to make sure it spilled, or where she was
going, she was watching us, to make sure each and everyone of us had
stopped what we were doing to watch her carrying it. At least twice if I
hadn't reached for the bowl and straightened it (because she was watching us
not the bowl) it would have spilled all over the place.>>>>>
I want to suggest that a plastic Tupperware type of serving bowl with a
cover would enable her to carry spillable things and still allow you to be
aware of her competence level. Jayn is the same about sometimes not watching
what she is carrying (although she doesn't watch me in the way you mention),
but I would never hurt her feelings by not letting her help or reaching out.
I do say, "the cup is tilting" when necessary. Thank goodness we are renting
an apartment the carpet of which is already at the bitter end of it's useful
life anyway.
<<<<She is very distracted when doing these kinds of things and so I
struggle to find things that will set her up for success, since I KNOW if
she dropped it, she would be crying and sad for hours that she didn't do it
right.>>>>
Poor little sausage! I have to wonder, in the light of what you have posted
about your dh, if he is not partly of the cause of this reaction. Jayn is
*so* proud of herself when she gets to do something for her father in
particular, much more than for merely me! There is some hero worship there
at times, ambivalence at other times. Maybe if your dh is more vocally
concerned as you say, it could be impacting her self esteem, or worse
contributing to perfectionism. I always feel sad for the little child that
was when I hear stories about Martha Stewart's father (an extreme example of
a perfectionist critical papa from what I hear) and grateful for my
easygoing tolerant dh.
<<<Anyway that is all I had to think about on this... as for the
cranberries, you can get very good frozen organic cranberries to make the
cranberries with in the freezer section, that is what we use all the
time:)>>>
I really like the dried cranberries as snacks & on cereal, substituting for
raisins.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/2004
cranberries from the kitchen to the dining room. I would need a 20 foot
sheet of plastic to cover that amount of carpet. It was the entire amount of
cranberries we had to eat, if it fell everyone would miss out on it for
dinner and everyone (including Hannah) loves to eat cranberries. Plus, this
is not just my carpet or Hannah's, it is her dad's as well and he pays to
have it cleaned and gets way more bothered by spills than I do.
So I let her carry things that wouldn't make a big mess and still through it
all, she was not watching the bowl to make sure it spilled, or where she was
going, she was watching us, to make sure each and everyone of us had
stopped what we were doing to watch her carrying it. At least twice if I
hadn't reached for the bowl and straightened it (because she was watching us
not the bowl) it would have spilled all over the place.>>>>>
I want to suggest that a plastic Tupperware type of serving bowl with a
cover would enable her to carry spillable things and still allow you to be
aware of her competence level. Jayn is the same about sometimes not watching
what she is carrying (although she doesn't watch me in the way you mention),
but I would never hurt her feelings by not letting her help or reaching out.
I do say, "the cup is tilting" when necessary. Thank goodness we are renting
an apartment the carpet of which is already at the bitter end of it's useful
life anyway.
<<<<She is very distracted when doing these kinds of things and so I
struggle to find things that will set her up for success, since I KNOW if
she dropped it, she would be crying and sad for hours that she didn't do it
right.>>>>
Poor little sausage! I have to wonder, in the light of what you have posted
about your dh, if he is not partly of the cause of this reaction. Jayn is
*so* proud of herself when she gets to do something for her father in
particular, much more than for merely me! There is some hero worship there
at times, ambivalence at other times. Maybe if your dh is more vocally
concerned as you say, it could be impacting her self esteem, or worse
contributing to perfectionism. I always feel sad for the little child that
was when I hear stories about Martha Stewart's father (an extreme example of
a perfectionist critical papa from what I hear) and grateful for my
easygoing tolerant dh.
<<<Anyway that is all I had to think about on this... as for the
cranberries, you can get very good frozen organic cranberries to make the
cranberries with in the freezer section, that is what we use all the
time:)>>>
I really like the dried cranberries as snacks & on cereal, substituting for
raisins.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/2004
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/14/2004 3:51:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
I really like the dried cranberries as snacks & on cereal, substituting for
raisins.<<<
Try them in a salad with feta cheese!
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
I really like the dried cranberries as snacks & on cereal, substituting for
raisins.<<<
Try them in a salad with feta cheese!
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]