Ren

"We had a very civil conversation and have agreed to disagree
and to do nothing at this time, but since I am the one that is out with her
on a more regular basis it does affect me more than him. So I am curious how
other "unschoolers" handle this."

Well...I can tell our method. My dh feels like yours, that they should learn how to save long term. I stood firmly on the ground that it should be their choice, he agreed, but still wanted some kind of long term savings...so here's the system.

The kids get regular money from us. I have a jar they keep any money they want to save or keep safe, it has a paper in it for keeping track of deposits and withdrawls. A home "bank" of sorts that they have complete control over. They can spend or save whatever they want.
Then they have a savings account at a real bank. I explained that Dad is really into seeing them save for a car or college or whatever big things they might want one day when they were older.
I told them that money would not be accessible, so whatever they put in would be gone for a long time.
It's completely and totally their choice to put nothing in that account, or a small amount or whatever. That way, dh is happy because they have a long term savings and the boys still control their money.

Trevor has about $300 in long term savings and Jared has almost $200 last time I checked. They'll usually give Dad a few bucks at a time to put in. That's how we've kept everyone happy and stayed true to unschooling ideals around here. Maybe that would work for you? The key is dh has to promise not to bug them about the amount to put in, or how they use their spending money.
Markus will ask the boys if they want to put some in long term when he sees they have a chunk of money, but if they say "no" or give him a couple bucks, that's fine and he drops it.

Ren

Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

Lanie Carlson-Lim

I like that idea too Ren...I've been thinking of giving them a jar and a log to keep track of what they are saving for....hmmm lotts to think about

Lanie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jane Powell

I've been reading through this thread with great interest.

Some time ago, when I was tired of "the gimmies", I decided to give each child (7, 5 1/2, and 4) $2 a week. I explained that they could spend it or save it, and it was us sharing money with them, not an "allowance" per se, nor tied to any action other than being part of our family. I have tried to show them charity it that I get $2 too and save some for the elephant house at the zoo and the local nature center. I have also saved some of the money for a larger purchase. I verbalize my thoughts when I do this, but they are just not getting it. Further, the boys especially, spend their money every week on junky stuff -- things that are cheap and/or break quickly. We have negotiated that I will warn them when I think that something will break or is of poor quality, but the final choice is theirs. As ds #1 put it, "It's my money. You gave it to me.". Of course too, if they spend all their money every week, they can't save up for the $6 items they want.

Is there a period of time when they stop spending all their money and start realizing saving and charity? What's your experience?

As far as dh... Like you said, I spend the most time with them and he yields to just about whatever I do (although if I were to suggest dying their hair blue he may have a thing or two to say!!). He actually gives them $1 each at times as well, but finds the process of them spending it in a store where they need prices, etc. exhausts him.

I'm curious to see what others have to say!!

Thanks for posting this!!
Jane

Lanie Carlson-Lim <pyxiewytch@...> wrote:
I like that idea too Ren...I've been thinking of giving them a jar and a log to keep track of what they are saving for....hmmm lotts to think about

Lanie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



Jane Powell
Tribe Commander

"If you bungle raising your children, I don't think anything you do well matters very much." Jackie O

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed." - Sebastien-Roch Chamfort


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catherine aceto

I don't know if this is feasible given whatever your financial situation is - but $2/week may not be enough for the 7 yo. I have an untested theory that kids have to have enough money for it to become *real* to them - in terms of actually being able to buy real things that they are interested in, in having enough to have some to spend and some to save. Personally, I would never expect a child to be interested in charity - I wouldn't discourage it, but I wouldn't expect it to happen.

That being said, I vaguely recall that it was 6 months or so (we started when she was 5) before Lydia stopped spending money the instant she got it.


-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: Jane Powell
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] more money questions

Is there a period of time when they stop spending all their money and start realizing saving and charity? What's your experience?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Clevenger

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jane Powell
> Is there a period of time when they stop spending all their money
and start realizing saving and charity? What's your experience?

I think different kids will have different approaches. Sometimes mine
choose to save and sometimes to spend. My daughter just got $5
birthday money from grandma and decided to put it into long term
savings. My son spent his on something he'd been saving up for. But a
few months ago, my son used some of his to join the Audubon society.
One thing we discovered is that we had to give him a bigger allowance
in order for him to do more than just spend it all the time. When he
only got a dollar or two a week, I think he figured he'd never be
able to save up for something bigger, so he just spent it on little
stuff - cheap toys and such. We started giving him more (he now gets
$4 a week) and he can pretty easily save up for a $20 item, so he's
more likely to.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

Angela S

My girls (8 and 9) get $2 a week. They have for several years. My younger
dd used to spend it as fast as she got it, on candy and small toys. My
older dd has almost always been a saver. Both girls will save for a $30
Breyer horse. My older dd probably has a couple hundred dollars stashed all
around her bedroom. My younger dd just had a birthday and she has over $50.
I have always let them buy whatever they want with their money. I've never
made them save it. I think the most valuable lessons come from making
mistakes with your money and I'd rather they made the mistakes with small
amounts than wait and learn those same lessons with big bucks when they are
older and the consequences are more serious. They've already learned that
very often impulse buys don't bring long lasting pleasure. They know what
they like and they don't mind spending money on those things that they play
with the most, like Breyers.



While $2 a week isn't a lot, I still buy things for the family, like board
games and candy or some small thing that I know they'll love if it's cheap
enough.



Someone was talking about spending a lot on kids and how it might spoil
them. I am in the process of getting ready to spend several thousand
dollars on my girls just to make them happy. What, you ask? Lol! We are
getting them a horse!!! And it's a gift that keeps on costing, but I know
they'll love it and use it often, so it's worth it. We are looking at one
that sounds like a keeper on Sunday. Wish us luck!!



Angela ~ Maine

game-enthusiast@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<<Some time ago, when I was tired of "the gimmies", I decided to give each
child (7, 5 1/2, and 4) $2 a week. I explained that they could spend it or
save it, and it was us sharing money with them, not an "allowance" per se,
nor tied to any action other than being part of our family. >>>>

I guess my thought on this is, similar to what another poster replied, were
you only spending $2.00 per week on fulfilling those "gimmies" (horrible
expression) that your children had?

It seems a very tiny amount, and would take so inordinately long (especially
to a child) to be accrued into enough to purchase any toy, book or game of
reasonable quality that it might be actually discouraging saving. Has it
stopped them from asking for stuff, or are you just feeling more justified
saying "no" to the requests?

If it is a token amount designed to be "pin money" for sweets and minor
stuff to save yourself from constantly having to field requests, then
expecting it to be saved for larger items is sending a kind of mixed
message. If it is supposed to fulfill all their personal wants for toys and
treats instead of them asking you for stuff, it seems really small,
especially for the older two.

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/2004

Robyn Coburn

<<<< (although if I were to suggest dying their hair blue he may have a
thing or two to say!!). >>>>

Many people have had great success with Kool Aid for dyeing kids' hair
different colors.

Is there some reason, other than adult discomfort, why they shouldn't dye
their hair if they wanted to? I have every expectation that Jayn will want
to in due course. I think it will be great fun. There were some kids with
multi-colored stripes at the conference. It is kind of a rite of passage
thing, I think.

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/2004

Danielle Conger

Jane wrote: I have tried to show them charity it that I get $2 too and
save some for the elephant house at the zoo and the local nature
center. I have also saved some of the money for a larger purchase. I
verbalize my thoughts when I do this, but they are just not getting it.
=====

Aaaahhh, but see that's disingenuous. You don't really get $2.00 a week
or you would probably do different things with it. You're getting $2 a
week in order to teach them a lesson about money, however subtly. As
long as that teaching impulse is there, Unschooling ain't gonna work. ;)
Seriously.

I totally agree with others who've said that kids need to have enough
money to do something with and need to have been getting it for a long
enough time for it to mean something.

My kids get $10 a month (not much more than the $2 a week, granted) but
it's taken them several months for it to be something actually to save.
At first they were only getting about $7 a month, and that just wasn't
enough for them to have some money to spend and enough to save as well.
They're still not thinking about charity even with the $10; they're only
just now starting to think about not spending it impulsively just to
spend it. Now, they're actually starting to say that they will save it
until the next store because they don't see anything they like or need.
And, I think that's a *huge* step. I can see what a struggle that is for
them, and I applaud it--especially as a person who tends to let money
burn a hole in my own pocket.

I wish you'd posted this on the AlwaysUnschooled list as well ;) not
just to plug my own list but because I think this discussion is really
pertinent and different when applied to young kids. I think that with
the little ones, we tend to impose our own value systems and wishes onto
them without giving them the room to grow and the time necessary to
develop the empathy and desire to give. Yes, I think some kids are born
more empathetic and with a greater sense of wanting to right the
injustices of the world. But many of us need to move through our own
self-centered desires to arrive at that kind of broader philanthropic
behavior.

So, part of *getting* to Unschooling is letting our own hopes and values
be *our* hopes and values, modeling behavior honestly for our children,
offering the rationale behind our own actions and allowing our children
the leeway to form their opinions and make their own choices whether
they mirror are choices or not. A child who comes honestly and naturally
to giving is a child who gives without resentment or hope for return.
Isn't that really what we hope our children will do?

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

>

Jon and Rue Kream

>> There were some kids with
multi-colored stripes at the conference.

**The comment about kids wanting to dye their hair caught my attention too.
At the conference Dagny had pink and blue hair. Jon bleached and dyed it
for her over the course of a couple of days. I don't know how it ended up
being his job, but it's one of 'their' things, and they've done it a few
times now. We never thought of it as anything other than Dagny's decision
to make. ~Rue

Kelly Muzyczka

><<<< (although if I were to suggest dying their hair blue he may have a
>thing or two to say!!). >>>>


Funny thing about this. I'm getting set to color MY hair. I've been
coloring it some kind of auburny red for the last 17 years or so. For the
Halloween season I'm thinking of dying it a real flame red orange. Really
bright and flashy. Maybe with blond highlights and lots of flash.

I showed my 8 year old a picture of what I had in mind---he thinks it's
great. He thinks I should GO FOR IT!

His, on the other hand, hasn't been cut in about 3 years and is down to his
butt. -grin- He gets so much flak for it, poor dear.


Kelly
I love mankind, it's people I can't stand. --Linus

Ren Allen

"I like that idea too Ren...I've been thinking of giving them a jar
and a log to
keep track of what they are saving for....hmmm lotts to think about"

You could do that. The way we do it, is I'm the "banker"...the kids
feel like their money is safe with Mom watching over it and keeping
track of the withdrawls and deposits. I guess it depends on how old
they are, but even my almost 15y.o. likes it better that way.
If a calculating error is made, they know they're covered because
the fault would be mine.:)

Ren

Angela S

Dyed hair isn't usually my thing, by I loved Dagny's hair at the conference.
It almost made me want to do the same to mine. :)

Angela ~ Maine
game-enthusiast@...

Lanie Carlson-Lim

we tried the dying once...blue for one green for the other...only lasted
like a day...and the boys have never really asked again...though I buy
different color gels and stuff (for me) for fun...if they ever wanted too
I'd do it again...I just bought a kit do do mine purple...I think I'll do
the tips and my bangs

Lanie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Blue hair was more money questions


>
> >> There were some kids with
> multi-colored stripes at the conference.
>
> **The comment about kids wanting to dye their hair caught my attention
too.
> At the conference Dagny had pink and blue hair. Jon bleached and dyed it
> for her over the course of a couple of days. I don't know how it ended up
> being his job, but it's one of 'their' things, and they've done it a few
> times now. We never thought of it as anything other than Dagny's decision
> to make. ~Rue
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sherri-Lee Pressman

HI there,

I am very behind so forgive the late reply.

This is a great idea, I will approach DH with the idea and see what he says.

I know dd would not go for the money jar thing that *I* control. She wants
to do everything herself and would strongly resist me keeping the money. I
say get her a piggy bank, dh says get one she can't open without breaking so
she won't spend what's in it. I don't agree.... we will have to think about
this more I guess,

Thanks for your suggestions,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Ren [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] more money questions




"We had a very civil conversation and have agreed to disagree
and to do nothing at this time, but since I am the one that is out with her
on a more regular basis it does affect me more than him. So I am curious how
other "unschoolers" handle this."

Well...I can tell our method. My dh feels like yours, that they should learn
how to save long term. I stood firmly on the ground that it should be their
choice, he agreed, but still wanted some kind of long term savings...so
here's the system.

The kids get regular money from us. I have a jar they keep any money they
want to save or keep safe, it has a paper in it for keeping track of
deposits and withdrawls. A home "bank" of sorts that they have complete
control over. They can spend or save whatever they want.
Then they have a savings account at a real bank. I explained that Dad is
really into seeing them save for a car or college or whatever big things
they might want one day when they were older.
I told them that money would not be accessible, so whatever they put in
would be gone for a long time.
It's completely and totally their choice to put nothing in that account, or
a small amount or whatever. That way, dh is happy because they have a long
term savings and the boys still control their money.

Trevor has about $300 in long term savings and Jared has almost $200 last
time I checked. They'll usually give Dad a few bucks at a time to put in.
That's how we've kept everyone happy and stayed true to unschooling ideals
around here. Maybe that would work for you? The key is dh has to promise not
to bug them about the amount to put in, or how they use their spending
money.
Markus will ask the boys if they want to put some in long term when he sees
they have a chunk of money, but if they say "no" or give him a couple bucks,
that's fine and he drops it.

Ren

Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/





Yahoo! Groups Links

windmillfamily

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents on hair dyeing:

My husband and I dyed our hair earlier this year, using Manic Panic
hair dye. I really liked the dye, and it was *super* vibrant. We had
to bleach our hair first, and then I did mine in Flamingo Pink, and he
did his in sort of a Cookie-Monster blue. Our son chose purple for his
hair; we weren't going to bleach his hair, however, just apply the dye
over his already light-colored hair. However, after the dye arrived,
he sort of lost interest in the concept, but it's still sitting in the
cupboard, waiting for him to use it!

I think next time I will be going for two tone red and black; that
will have to wait 'til the spring, however, since i am currently
working at a place that - get this - expressly forbids employees from
dyeing their hair anything other than a "natural color!" I will be
going on maternity leave in March, though, and will probably just quit
altogether at that point. But I digress :), anyway...I whole-heartedly
endorse Manic Panic!

-Amy

--- In [email protected], "Lanie Carlson-Lim"
<pyxiewytch@c...> wrote:
> we tried the dying once...blue for one green for the other...only lasted
> like a day...and the boys have never really asked again...though I buy
> different color gels and stuff (for me) for fun...if they ever
wanted too
> I'd do it again...I just bought a kit do do mine purple...I think
I'll do
> the tips and my bangs
>
> Lanie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@c...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Blue hair was more money questions
>
>
> >
> > >> There were some kids with
> > multi-colored stripes at the conference.
> >
> > **The comment about kids wanting to dye their hair caught my attention
> too.
> > At the conference Dagny had pink and blue hair. Jon bleached and
dyed it
> > for her over the course of a couple of days. I don't know how it
ended up
> > being his job, but it's one of 'their' things, and they've done it
a few
> > times now. We never thought of it as anything other than Dagny's
decision
> > to make. ~Rue
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >