What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
poonam kurani
Dear All,
While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i have been observing a persistent pattern....DS-3.8yr get worried abt something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
e.g.
the Chick who's mother is away in the book..."Are u my Mother...by Dr Sessus"
Abt the Gingerbread Man....who's gets eaten up by the fox.
Abt pinnochio who gets lost....
abt the octopus in the book....."who's in the Bathroom"
the question that he will pose worriedly wld be....why did the chick not find his mother, where is the gingerbread mans mother...is she crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when will he go to his mother?
What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i have been observing a persistent pattern....DS-3.8yr get worried abt something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
e.g.
the Chick who's mother is away in the book..."Are u my Mother...by Dr Sessus"
Abt the Gingerbread Man....who's gets eaten up by the fox.
Abt pinnochio who gets lost....
abt the octopus in the book....."who's in the Bathroom"
the question that he will pose worriedly wld be....why did the chick not find his mother, where is the gingerbread mans mother...is she crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when will he go to his mother?
What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:02 AM, poonam kurani wrote:
He likes the stories, you said before, so they aren't worrying him
enough to want not to hear them. The idea that he's a separate being
from you and that you could go away or die or he could get lost -- all
that kind of stuff - is all very normal for him to be considering. Do
you talk about stuff you're reading? I was serious when I said, "Ask
him."
But, are you picking only stories with mother issues? Maybe it is YOU
that has a pattern? <G>
My gut instinct, Poonam, is to suggest that you lighten up and not
worry so much. Interesting that you're worrying about HIM worrying, huh?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Ask him.
> What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
He likes the stories, you said before, so they aren't worrying him
enough to want not to hear them. The idea that he's a separate being
from you and that you could go away or die or he could get lost -- all
that kind of stuff - is all very normal for him to be considering. Do
you talk about stuff you're reading? I was serious when I said, "Ask
him."
But, are you picking only stories with mother issues? Maybe it is YOU
that has a pattern? <G>
My gut instinct, Poonam, is to suggest that you lighten up and not
worry so much. Interesting that you're worrying about HIM worrying, huh?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swissarmy_wife
For my oldest son who is 9, the ending of a book or movie is NEVER
enough. He ALWAYS wants to know more. More than I can give him! I
think he gets that I just don't know what happened next. However,
sometimes we speculate on what may have happened or we talk about what
we'd like to happen. Basically we continue the story.
I might tell him I'm not sure and ask him what he thinks.
--- In [email protected], poonam kurani
<kidsdomain@...> wrote:
something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when
will he go to his mother?
enough. He ALWAYS wants to know more. More than I can give him! I
think he gets that I just don't know what happened next. However,
sometimes we speculate on what may have happened or we talk about what
we'd like to happen. Basically we continue the story.
I might tell him I'm not sure and ask him what he thinks.
--- In [email protected], poonam kurani
<kidsdomain@...> wrote:
>have been observing a persistent pattern....DS-3.8yr get worried abt
> Dear All,
>
> While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i
something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
> e.g.Dr Sessus"
> the Chick who's mother is away in the book..."Are u my Mother...by
> Abt the Gingerbread Man....who's gets eaten up by the fox.not find his mother, where is the gingerbread mans mother...is she
> Abt pinnochio who gets lost....
> abt the octopus in the book....."who's in the Bathroom"
>
> the question that he will pose worriedly wld be....why did the chick
crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when
will he go to his mother?
>
> What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
>
Ulrike Haupt
Hi Poonam
You wrote:
"While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i have been
observing a persistent pattern....DS-3.8yr get worried abt something or the
other in most of the books that i read to him.
<snip>
What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?"
When I was about three years old I had a vivid dream about my father not
being here and I was searching for my father all over the place. I've never
spoken about this to anyone, but it has been part of my hang-up until I made
peace with the knowing that my father will never say to me that he loves me.
From that moment onwards our relationship has changed dramatically.
If your little one expresses his fears about a 'missing mother' so
dramatically I would listen and take that very serious. What societal belief
is he buying into?
I've been working with the healing aspects of fairy tales for a long time
already. When I mean fairy tales I mainly refer to the German Grimm's fairy
tales collection where most tales have the missing mother or the hateful
step mother aspect. It really is a valid fear. Part of this is the
insatiatable ego needs that come from early unmet needs.
OK, I'll open up here and relate something else, which I have not cleared
within yet, either, but it may shed some light on my reasoning. My father
told me a short while ago that when I was a little baby one day when he came
home from work my mother had packed up her stuff and told him that she was
going back to her parents because she now had a baby that she could not have
without a marriage. (we are talking early 50's) He reasoned with her to
stay. She did the same thing again when my next brother was born. Again he
reasoned with her to stay. And now they have been together for more than 56
years. But what has it done to my own perception of who I am and how
accepted I am? I mean, I was there when that happened, even though I was
small.
I am not saying that you did something similar with your husband. But
somehow this little one got the idea that 'mother' might not be available
all the time or that he can't trust that you will be at his beck and call.
This can be a deep wound and needs soothing and healing. Be grateful that it
shows now and not as an undesired addiction when he is grown.
Maybe you need to design stories and day to day experiences that build his
trust in being acceptable and loved and adored 100%. Or let him tell the
stories he wants to listen to. So much healing is in that, too.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia -somewhere in Africa
You wrote:
"While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i have been
observing a persistent pattern....DS-3.8yr get worried abt something or the
other in most of the books that i read to him.
<snip>
What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?"
When I was about three years old I had a vivid dream about my father not
being here and I was searching for my father all over the place. I've never
spoken about this to anyone, but it has been part of my hang-up until I made
peace with the knowing that my father will never say to me that he loves me.
From that moment onwards our relationship has changed dramatically.
If your little one expresses his fears about a 'missing mother' so
dramatically I would listen and take that very serious. What societal belief
is he buying into?
I've been working with the healing aspects of fairy tales for a long time
already. When I mean fairy tales I mainly refer to the German Grimm's fairy
tales collection where most tales have the missing mother or the hateful
step mother aspect. It really is a valid fear. Part of this is the
insatiatable ego needs that come from early unmet needs.
OK, I'll open up here and relate something else, which I have not cleared
within yet, either, but it may shed some light on my reasoning. My father
told me a short while ago that when I was a little baby one day when he came
home from work my mother had packed up her stuff and told him that she was
going back to her parents because she now had a baby that she could not have
without a marriage. (we are talking early 50's) He reasoned with her to
stay. She did the same thing again when my next brother was born. Again he
reasoned with her to stay. And now they have been together for more than 56
years. But what has it done to my own perception of who I am and how
accepted I am? I mean, I was there when that happened, even though I was
small.
I am not saying that you did something similar with your husband. But
somehow this little one got the idea that 'mother' might not be available
all the time or that he can't trust that you will be at his beck and call.
This can be a deep wound and needs soothing and healing. Be grateful that it
shows now and not as an undesired addiction when he is grown.
Maybe you need to design stories and day to day experiences that build his
trust in being acceptable and loved and adored 100%. Or let him tell the
stories he wants to listen to. So much healing is in that, too.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia -somewhere in Africa
Ryan
Poonam - you wrote:
you were asking not about your son's response to these books (his
questions seem legitimate and quite perceptive to me) but rather about
the persistent pattern of absent/dead mothers in so much children's
literature.
Why is it that so many works of fiction for children is built around
mothers who are dead, absent, or otherwise missing? It's probably
connected to why so many works (particularly older works) rely almost
exclusively on male central characters and concern themselves primarily
with male psychological issues and outcomes.
Here's my theory (honed in perhaps one too many graduate literature
seminars!) - we live (still) in a male-dominated world, particularly at
the symbolic and narrative level. Reality is still primarily designed
by males, and the languages in which we talk about reality comes from
men. Up until very recently, the publishing world was dominated by
men, and most writing done by men.
In a male dominated culture, one of the most crucial tasks when it
comes to children, particularly male children, is separating them from
their mothers. In my opinion, the vast bulk of what constitutes
contemporary child-rearing practices is all about separating male
children from their mothers, de-feminizing them. Hospital births,
bottle feeding, circumcision, the insistence on putting children in
their own rooms - in cribs, school - all of these things function as a
means of separating the children (again, primarily the sons) from their
mothers. On some level, men fear the feminizing aspects of mothers,
and yet, on another, they long for that lost connection to the mother.
So, long story short, much of children's literature attempts, on a deep
psychological level, to deal with the male need to separate from mother
and the emotional despair produced by being separated from mother. The
stories are narratives that attempt to teach males to cope in a
motherless world, and generally speaking the stories with absent
mothers offer up symbolic alternatives to the lost mother - action,
movement, violence, the comradery of other boys, adventure, etc. The
narratives separate the boy from his mother and then try to offer a
replacement for what has been lost.
I tend not to read my children stories (even classic ones) with missing
mothers.
> What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?I took your comments a little differently than other people. I assumed
you were asking not about your son's response to these books (his
questions seem legitimate and quite perceptive to me) but rather about
the persistent pattern of absent/dead mothers in so much children's
literature.
Why is it that so many works of fiction for children is built around
mothers who are dead, absent, or otherwise missing? It's probably
connected to why so many works (particularly older works) rely almost
exclusively on male central characters and concern themselves primarily
with male psychological issues and outcomes.
Here's my theory (honed in perhaps one too many graduate literature
seminars!) - we live (still) in a male-dominated world, particularly at
the symbolic and narrative level. Reality is still primarily designed
by males, and the languages in which we talk about reality comes from
men. Up until very recently, the publishing world was dominated by
men, and most writing done by men.
In a male dominated culture, one of the most crucial tasks when it
comes to children, particularly male children, is separating them from
their mothers. In my opinion, the vast bulk of what constitutes
contemporary child-rearing practices is all about separating male
children from their mothers, de-feminizing them. Hospital births,
bottle feeding, circumcision, the insistence on putting children in
their own rooms - in cribs, school - all of these things function as a
means of separating the children (again, primarily the sons) from their
mothers. On some level, men fear the feminizing aspects of mothers,
and yet, on another, they long for that lost connection to the mother.
So, long story short, much of children's literature attempts, on a deep
psychological level, to deal with the male need to separate from mother
and the emotional despair produced by being separated from mother. The
stories are narratives that attempt to teach males to cope in a
motherless world, and generally speaking the stories with absent
mothers offer up symbolic alternatives to the lost mother - action,
movement, violence, the comradery of other boys, adventure, etc. The
narratives separate the boy from his mother and then try to offer a
replacement for what has been lost.
I tend not to read my children stories (even classic ones) with missing
mothers.
swissarmy_wife
While I do not disagree with you, and I'm certainly not as well spoken
(written) as you, I have to add that many children's stories have
missing mothers, dead parents, and/or some other tragic beginning.
(Disney anyone?) I think these things tend to toy with emotions in a
way and sort us tie us to the movie. I think many of them deal with
male and female (or both) characters alike.
(written) as you, I have to add that many children's stories have
missing mothers, dead parents, and/or some other tragic beginning.
(Disney anyone?) I think these things tend to toy with emotions in a
way and sort us tie us to the movie. I think many of them deal with
male and female (or both) characters alike.
>
> I took your comments a little differently than other people. I assumed
> you were asking not about your son's response to these books (his
> questions seem legitimate and quite perceptive to me) but rather about
> the persistent pattern of absent/dead mothers in so much children's
> literature.
>
> Why is it that so many works of fiction for children is built around
> mothers who are dead, absent, or otherwise missing? It's probably
> connected to why so many works (particularly older works) rely almost
> exclusively on male central characters and concern themselves primarily
> with male psychological issues and outcomes.
>
> Here's my theory (honed in perhaps one too many graduate literature
> seminars!) - we live (still) in a male-dominated world, particularly at
> the symbolic and narrative level. Reality is still primarily designed
> by males, and the languages in which we talk about reality comes from
> men. Up until very recently, the publishing world was dominated by
> men, and most writing done by men.
>
> In a male dominated culture, one of the most crucial tasks when it
> comes to children, particularly male children, is separating them from
> their mothers. In my opinion, the vast bulk of what constitutes
> contemporary child-rearing practices is all about separating male
> children from their mothers, de-feminizing them. Hospital births,
> bottle feeding, circumcision, the insistence on putting children in
> their own rooms - in cribs, school - all of these things function as a
> means of separating the children (again, primarily the sons) from their
> mothers. On some level, men fear the feminizing aspects of mothers,
> and yet, on another, they long for that lost connection to the mother.
>
> So, long story short, much of children's literature attempts, on a deep
> psychological level, to deal with the male need to separate from mother
> and the emotional despair produced by being separated from mother. The
> stories are narratives that attempt to teach males to cope in a
> motherless world, and generally speaking the stories with absent
> mothers offer up symbolic alternatives to the lost mother - action,
> movement, violence, the comradery of other boys, adventure, etc. The
> narratives separate the boy from his mother and then try to offer a
> replacement for what has been lost.
>
> I tend not to read my children stories (even classic ones) with missing
> mothers.
>
Ulrike Haupt
Hi Ryan
You wrote:
So, long story short, much of children's literature attempts, on a deep
psychological level, to deal with the male need to separate from mother
and the emotional despair produced by being separated from mother. The
stories are narratives that attempt to teach males to cope in a
motherless world, and generally speaking the stories with absent
mothers offer up symbolic alternatives to the lost mother - action,
movement, violence, the comradery of other boys, adventure, etc. The
narratives separate the boy from his mother and then try to offer a
replacement for what has been lost.
I tend not to read my children stories (even classic ones) with missing
mothers."
I can so relate.
Though I just want to interject here. If the child/person has not been hurt
in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would be boring.
If, on the other hand there is a wound present, even if only it is an
inherited wound, then there is a need to heal and then these kind of stories
may be part of the healing process, if applied correctly.
Allow me to use a classic story. Cinderella; (not the Disney version!)
This is a classic mother wound story. But it is for girls.
What about any dumbling (?) story? The third boy child who is 'not good
enough' and by following his intuition wins the kingdom.
Or take Iron John, a classic for men who are willing to reconnect with their
inner strength.
Outside of the unschooling life context the children are confronted with the
missing mother/father reality in their lives. (It starts with birth in
hospital and early kindergarten experiences!) What we do in unschooling is
turn the tables and 'be there for our children in total respect for who they
are.' If our children still show us that they experience something else then
it may show us our own untended to wounds (if we started unschooling on the
day they were born :)
The mising mother wound, not only for boys, is a very serious wound and by
ignoring it through not 'reading the stories' we may lose out on a valuable
and much needed way to heal.
The thing with so many of these stories is that their healing is often
subliminal and hidden within the context of the symbols used. Symbols (soul
language) is a language that many of us have forgotten.
Poonam wrote about a situation that showed that a wound is present. It may
be her wound or it may be the childs wound. I do not know.
In a way this relates to parents not wanting their children to be interested
in weapons. And often their children are fascinated by all kinds of
aggressive things. If the parents make peace with this it plays out
harmlessly. It is only in the resistance that problems show up.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS I love working through fairy tales to push the healing buttons they
contain. Just ask and I could give you just so may examples. :)
You wrote:
So, long story short, much of children's literature attempts, on a deep
psychological level, to deal with the male need to separate from mother
and the emotional despair produced by being separated from mother. The
stories are narratives that attempt to teach males to cope in a
motherless world, and generally speaking the stories with absent
mothers offer up symbolic alternatives to the lost mother - action,
movement, violence, the comradery of other boys, adventure, etc. The
narratives separate the boy from his mother and then try to offer a
replacement for what has been lost.
I tend not to read my children stories (even classic ones) with missing
mothers."
I can so relate.
Though I just want to interject here. If the child/person has not been hurt
in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would be boring.
If, on the other hand there is a wound present, even if only it is an
inherited wound, then there is a need to heal and then these kind of stories
may be part of the healing process, if applied correctly.
Allow me to use a classic story. Cinderella; (not the Disney version!)
This is a classic mother wound story. But it is for girls.
What about any dumbling (?) story? The third boy child who is 'not good
enough' and by following his intuition wins the kingdom.
Or take Iron John, a classic for men who are willing to reconnect with their
inner strength.
Outside of the unschooling life context the children are confronted with the
missing mother/father reality in their lives. (It starts with birth in
hospital and early kindergarten experiences!) What we do in unschooling is
turn the tables and 'be there for our children in total respect for who they
are.' If our children still show us that they experience something else then
it may show us our own untended to wounds (if we started unschooling on the
day they were born :)
The mising mother wound, not only for boys, is a very serious wound and by
ignoring it through not 'reading the stories' we may lose out on a valuable
and much needed way to heal.
The thing with so many of these stories is that their healing is often
subliminal and hidden within the context of the symbols used. Symbols (soul
language) is a language that many of us have forgotten.
Poonam wrote about a situation that showed that a wound is present. It may
be her wound or it may be the childs wound. I do not know.
In a way this relates to parents not wanting their children to be interested
in weapons. And often their children are fascinated by all kinds of
aggressive things. If the parents make peace with this it plays out
harmlessly. It is only in the resistance that problems show up.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS I love working through fairy tales to push the healing buttons they
contain. Just ask and I could give you just so may examples. :)
Ren Allen
~If the child/person has not been hurt
in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would be
boring.~~
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...but why would a story be
"boring" just because a person doesn't have some hurt that relates to
the issue? Children aren't looking for deep meanings in the story,
it's just a story.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would be
boring.~~
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...but why would a story be
"boring" just because a person doesn't have some hurt that relates to
the issue? Children aren't looking for deep meanings in the story,
it's just a story.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
swissarmy_wife
> Though I just want to interject here. If the child/person has notbeen hurt
> in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would beboring.
Why would these stories be boring? If we did not relate to the issue?
My parents did not die in a fire, but I sure found Lemony Snicket
books fascinating!
> If, on the other hand there is a wound present, even if only it is anstories
> inherited wound, then there is a need to heal and then these kind of
> may be part of the healing process, if applied correctly.What exactly is an "inherited wound".
> Outside of the unschooling life context the children are confrontedwith the
> missing mother/father reality in their lives. (It starts with birth incorrect me if I'm wrong, but just because we are unschoolers does not
> hospital and early kindergarten experiences!)
mean that mother/father etc. issues do not exist.
> Poonam wrote about a situation that showed that a wound is present.It may
> be her wound or it may be the childs wound. I do not know.I still don't see how her story automatically says a wound is present.
It does however say that her child is concerned where the story
characters mother is.
> In a way this relates to parents not wanting their children to beinterested
> in weapons. And often their children are fascinated by all kinds ofGuess I'm missing the connection here to. How are missing parents and
> aggressive things. If the parents make peace with this it plays out
> harmlessly. It is only in the resistance that problems show up.
weapons play related at all? My boys certainly love weapons of all
sorts. I have 2 boys who have never been restricted with "violent
play" at all. Even before unschooling.
Mara
My youngest is exactly your sons age. He for some time worried a lot in books too where the animals/childs mother was. I believe that for him it was so normal that he was always with me that he really was worried what a little one would do without his mother, and sometimes his daddy too. He does now understand that Daddy has to go to work but that he will always come back. He used to really cry and worry about the missing mother too, although in the "are you my mother" it did not bother him that much, because the issue is out in the open and the bird at least does find his mother in the end.
He could not see many disney movies because they were so disturbing, and I certainly don't make him, usually go play with him in another room if older brother wants to watch something.
I vividly remember watching Bambi for the first time as a child and crying so hard.
Both my boys are very attached and I often wonder about a society that 'makes' young children separate so early and unnaturally. No wonder they have trouble staying in healthy relationships later and the divorce rates are so high.
I guess not much advice, just talking about it a lot and also trying to read many stories where that is not an issue. Stories of loving relationships, or any other Dr. Seuss
Gotta go,
Mara
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, poonam kurani
<kidsdomain@ ...> wrote:
something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when
will he go to his mother?
He could not see many disney movies because they were so disturbing, and I certainly don't make him, usually go play with him in another room if older brother wants to watch something.
I vividly remember watching Bambi for the first time as a child and crying so hard.
Both my boys are very attached and I often wonder about a society that 'makes' young children separate so early and unnaturally. No wonder they have trouble staying in healthy relationships later and the divorce rates are so high.
I guess not much advice, just talking about it a lot and also trying to read many stories where that is not an issue. Stories of loving relationships, or any other Dr. Seuss
Gotta go,
Mara
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, poonam kurani
<kidsdomain@ ...> wrote:
>have been observing a persistent pattern....DS- 3.8yr get worried abt
> Dear All,
>
> While i shared abt reading at meals is working for my son. But i
something or the other in most of the books that i read to him.
> e.g.Dr Sessus"
> the Chick who's mother is away in the book..."Are u my Mother...by
> Abt the Gingerbread Man....who's gets eaten up by the fox.not find his mother, where is the gingerbread mans mother...is she
> Abt pinnochio who gets lost....
> abt the octopus in the book....."who' s in the Bathroom"
>
> the question that he will pose worriedly wld be....why did the chick
crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is Octopus's mother....when
will he go to his mother?
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
COULD happen - it doesn't mean we've experienced something and we need
healing, it means we have imagination and empathy.
Fears are sometimes satisfying to explore. One version of that is the
fun of scary amusement park rides. Another version is enjoying a sad
movie or play. Stories - in whatever form - are powerful connections
between people - past and present. I'm not saying they aren't
important. I'm saying that it is not necessarily something to get
worried about when a child seems fascinated by a certain theme. If
he's wanting more, give it to him. Talk as you always would about what
you're reading.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...but why would a story beOr they are interesting because we all sometimes like to imagine what
> "boring" just because a person doesn't have some hurt that relates to
> the issue? Children aren't looking for deep meanings in the story,
> it's just a story.
COULD happen - it doesn't mean we've experienced something and we need
healing, it means we have imagination and empathy.
Fears are sometimes satisfying to explore. One version of that is the
fun of scary amusement park rides. Another version is enjoying a sad
movie or play. Stories - in whatever form - are powerful connections
between people - past and present. I'm not saying they aren't
important. I'm saying that it is not necessarily something to get
worried about when a child seems fascinated by a certain theme. If
he's wanting more, give it to him. Talk as you always would about what
you're reading.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ulrike Haupt
Ok, my lack of social graces is acting up again. I am using wrong
expressions and do not explain enough. Can you forgive me, please?
I said
Mara said
Why would these stories be boring? If we did not relate to the issue?
My parents did not die in a fire, but I sure found Lemony Snicket
books fascinating!
*** boring is really not what I meant. Rather they don't trigger something
unresolved and are just that, a story.
Mara asked
What exactly is an "inherited wound".
*** That is what we may have taken on from a parent or other ancestor. This
is a concept that I've come across in various places already and I have some
personal experience of this, too. It is even mentioned in the bible, 'sins
of the fathers' that have an effect three or four generations down the line.
mean that mother/father etc. issues do not exist.
*** Oh I do not mean that we don't have such issues. We do as much as the
next person. And we do something about it, at least with regards to our
children. We are working all the time to not have children with abandonment
and rejection wounds. That is why Poonam may have asked howcome her little
one reacts so strongly when mother issue stories are being told.
It does however say that her child is concerned where the story
characters mother is.
*** I am sorry, I have read more into 'worried' than it means.
weapons play related at all? My boys certainly love weapons of all
sorts. I have 2 boys who have never been restricted with "violent
play" at all. Even before unschooling.
*** Again I used the wrong words. And I still don't know how to express this
train of thoughts. For me the missing mother issue and the agression issue
are quite related. I'll contemplate this some more and if you allow I'll
come back with my findings eventually.
Thank you for your patience
Ulrike
expressions and do not explain enough. Can you forgive me, please?
I said
> Though I just want to interject here. If the child/person has notbeen hurt
> in this manner then the issue is not present. Such stories would beboring.
Mara said
Why would these stories be boring? If we did not relate to the issue?
My parents did not die in a fire, but I sure found Lemony Snicket
books fascinating!
*** boring is really not what I meant. Rather they don't trigger something
unresolved and are just that, a story.
Mara asked
What exactly is an "inherited wound".
*** That is what we may have taken on from a parent or other ancestor. This
is a concept that I've come across in various places already and I have some
personal experience of this, too. It is even mentioned in the bible, 'sins
of the fathers' that have an effect three or four generations down the line.
> Outside of the unschooling life context the children are confrontedwith the
> missing mother/father reality in their lives. (It starts with birth incorrect me if I'm wrong, but just because we are unschoolers does not
> hospital and early kindergarten experiences!)
mean that mother/father etc. issues do not exist.
*** Oh I do not mean that we don't have such issues. We do as much as the
next person. And we do something about it, at least with regards to our
children. We are working all the time to not have children with abandonment
and rejection wounds. That is why Poonam may have asked howcome her little
one reacts so strongly when mother issue stories are being told.
> Poonam wrote about a situation that showed that a wound is present.It may
> be her wound or it may be the childs wound. I do not know.I still don't see how her story automatically says a wound is present.
It does however say that her child is concerned where the story
characters mother is.
*** I am sorry, I have read more into 'worried' than it means.
> In a way this relates to parents not wanting their children to beinterested
> in weapons. And often their children are fascinated by all kinds ofGuess I'm missing the connection here to. How are missing parents and
> aggressive things. If the parents make peace with this it plays out
> harmlessly. It is only in the resistance that problems show up.
weapons play related at all? My boys certainly love weapons of all
sorts. I have 2 boys who have never been restricted with "violent
play" at all. Even before unschooling.
*** Again I used the wrong words. And I still don't know how to express this
train of thoughts. For me the missing mother issue and the agression issue
are quite related. I'll contemplate this some more and if you allow I'll
come back with my findings eventually.
Thank you for your patience
Ulrike
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:02 PM, poonam kurani wrote:
of how the world works. Often the picture isn't accurate. At one
stage of development as babies they realize "Whoa, the world isn't an
extension of me!" ;-) It kind of makes their heads spin for a bit as
they readjust to the new picture ;-)
I think up until now he's had a picture of Mom and Child being
together forever and now he's readjusting. His head is saying "Moms
are supposed to be forever!" but he's facing these situations where
there is no mom. He probably doesn't want to come to the conclusion
that he's coming to -- that one day Mom won't be there -- so he's
holding onto his old belief.
Maybe don't read him books that have absent moms for a while. Let his
pace of adjustment slow. Let it happen in the background for him.
He will adjust. His maturing brain will make sure he understands that
right now isn't how things will be forever. But as he's adjusting he
doesn't need jarring reminders. Let it be gentle as you can.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> the question that he will pose worriedly wld be....why did theHis age, I think. As kids grow from babies, they build up a picture
> chick not find his mother, where is the gingerbread mans
> mother...is she crying? Where is pinochio's mother? Where is
> Octopus's mother....when will he go to his mother?
>
> What is this persistent "MOTHER" pattern indicating?
of how the world works. Often the picture isn't accurate. At one
stage of development as babies they realize "Whoa, the world isn't an
extension of me!" ;-) It kind of makes their heads spin for a bit as
they readjust to the new picture ;-)
I think up until now he's had a picture of Mom and Child being
together forever and now he's readjusting. His head is saying "Moms
are supposed to be forever!" but he's facing these situations where
there is no mom. He probably doesn't want to come to the conclusion
that he's coming to -- that one day Mom won't be there -- so he's
holding onto his old belief.
Maybe don't read him books that have absent moms for a while. Let his
pace of adjustment slow. Let it happen in the background for him.
He will adjust. His maturing brain will make sure he understands that
right now isn't how things will be forever. But as he's adjusting he
doesn't need jarring reminders. Let it be gentle as you can.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Creech
Just a thought: might this be an example of what Freud referred to as
the "primary separation from the mother," or what is medically referred
to as "separation anxiety"?
Here is a brief overview of the concept of separation, under the section
"Object Relations Theory"
http://cepa.newschool.edu/~quigleyt/vcs/psychoanalysis.html
Here is a link to an abstract about what is considered the "disorder"
called "separation anxiety": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8050378
Hope this helps.
jlc
the "primary separation from the mother," or what is medically referred
to as "separation anxiety"?
Here is a brief overview of the concept of separation, under the section
"Object Relations Theory"
http://cepa.newschool.edu/~quigleyt/vcs/psychoanalysis.html
Here is a link to an abstract about what is considered the "disorder"
called "separation anxiety": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8050378
Hope this helps.
jlc