Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi everyone,



I just didn't know what else to title this: "She is driving me crazy"? "I am
loosing my mind"? "my beautiful daughter has become a misery"?



What ever I thought it was all so negative, and maybe that is all I need is
a good solid kicking of an attitude adjustment, that is administered gently
given my 8 months pregnancy situation?



I don't know, I just know I am so sad at the way things are these days.



Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of energy
in the last month?



Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she has
ever had. I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.



She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more toys
all something I have to do for her, and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear you
now".



If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for hours,
if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear each
other, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a show,
after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts talking
and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as possible.



OK. so it is becoming obvious to me as I read this that some of this
behaviour is a reaction to my seeming to have less time and energy for her.
Yes I have less time and energy for her so where do I find it for her so she
doesn't feel so ignored? I spend all day with her, I give her all I can. by
the end of the day I am drained by her constant chatter and demands and
tantrums. Hmmmm. she is constantly pulling me closer to her and wanting to
control and dominate me and then when I get with her, she pushes me away.
Ok. so what approach do I take, what can I do to fill her up with what she
needs? What does she need? How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.



I know this isn't really an unschooling issue, but I really appreciate any
insight you wonderful women can shed, I respect your opinions and life
experiences so much, thank you in advance for your help,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ulrike Haupt

Dear Sheri-Lee

What a wonderful post. Really, really. :)

Ok, I'm looking at this from the Law of Attraction perspective. Hannah is
matching with her behaviour something that you are not aware of and
acknowledging within yourself, most probably. At 8 months preggies you may
want to spend some time with yourself and with the little one to come. You
may want someone else to 'do' things for you. You may feel very much out of
sorts with yourself and this body that is not as you might define beautiful
and lovable. And nothing fits! There may also be some thoughts of
apprehension. Quite a lot may not be the way you want it to be.
And all of this is not appropriate because you want to be a good mother and
do all the other stuff which is 'right' and according to the books.

Could you give yourself a break? Could you stop to beat up on yourself for a
moment? Could you acknowledge that you are doing great and the best you can
under the circumstances. Can you allow yourself a breather, knowing that the
most important person at this moment should be you (and baby) and that you
get your needs met first. If your little one does not know what she wants,
do you know what you want? I don't say that you should follow her lead and
throw a temper tantrum, but you may allow yourself the knowing that you are
worthy of being loved.

You feel disempowered because you see that even if you stood on your head
she would not be satisfied. This just shows us that is is never about the
things we do for others that make them happy. btw, it also not the things
others do that make us happy or unhappy. Not really! :) It is how we
interpret what happens that results in our feeling good or bad. And we can
re-interpret everything to mean something better about ourselves.

Take the moment where she wants you to mind read her preferences and rejects
all your suggestions. I could interpret that as 'If she does not know what
she wants I've failed (again).' or 'If she does not know what she wants I am
responsible.' or 'If she does not know what she wants it's nothing to do
with me.' or 'I would love to know what I want and go for it.'

You know that Hannah shows all the symptoms of 'OMG I have to share mommy's
love.' And that is something we can't live with. We want ALL the love to
flow to us at all times. This cannot be rationalised ever. The only way to
soothe this pain is to love, unconditionally. First yourself and then
Hannah. And you can do that. :)

Blessed be
Ulrike

Robyn Coburn

<<<Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of energy
in the last month?
Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she has
ever had>>>>>

If you read some of the Child Development books (eg: "Child Behavior from
one til ten" or "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames) from Gessell Institute
(and don't read the school preparedness chapters because they are
irrelevant, and ignore the Cry it out sleep suggestions obviously) you may
be relieved to learn that they consider much of this type of behavior
typical of 4.5 year olds. Whether their suggestions are of any use to you
would be another matter.

Jayn (4.75) does many, in fact almost all of the same obnoxious behaviors,
but in your case I would guess that they are being exacerbated by your very
pregnant situation - both in terms of your emotionally vunerable state,
physical energy limitations, and Hannah's possible regressive reaction to
the upcoming baby.

<<<< I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.>>>>

Look really hard at the "no's" you are saying. There is a huge difference
between "can't" and "won't".

If you can, absolutely ignore the demanding tone of voice and fulfill the
request cheerfully anyway, which is what I do mostly with Jayn. It does take
the wind out of the incipient meltdown a lot of the time. Sometimes I
mention in passing that she sounded really demanding or angry to me when she
spoke, but I never reply in kind to her.

When she has an angry blasting meltdown, I let Jayn's anger just bounce off
me, like a beach ball you aren't catching - it will get less (or impinge on
you less). I'm talking about "detachment" from her emotions, NOT ignoring
her or her requests. Just not allowing her frenzy to get me upset, while
still validating emotions back - "you sound very angry/frustrated". She will
go on and I will say something very neutral like "What a shame." It helps
her go through the meltdown, and restore her own balance.

Sometimes I also remind Jayn to take some deep breaths if she is starting to
get angry. Sometimes her only relief is still to shriek. One good one and
she is often better.

<<<She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more toys
all something I have to do for her, >>>

There is a lot of overwhelm and resentment coming through in your post -
lot's of emphatic negative words. Are you getting enough help with the day
to day stuff like the housework? Are you getting any support from dh for
your emotional ups and downs as hormones shift? Are you trying to do too
much, when all you want to do is sit and contemplate the new baby? If you
can find a way to transfer responsibility for everything other than Hannah
and your own immediate comfort to someone else (a temporary house cleaning
service? Ordering in dinner? Paying someone to come in and do the laundry?
Home delivery of groceries?) maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed.

<<<<and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear you
now".>>>>>

This indecisiveness is also a kind of normal development phase with some
personalities, according to what I have read, although she *is*
communicating clearly and definitively when she says she "doesn't want to
hear you now". Short phrases, not long reasoned explanations, might be the
solution here. As much as you may want her to understand where you are
coming from, emotionally or intellectually, it shouldn't be her
responsibility to have to do so. She may feel your explaining as an
emotional burden.

One of the things I do with Jayn when she is rejecting all the possibilities
for say a snack, is just let it go, with "well I don't know dear. What do
you think?" or "That's all we have." Then I wait it out. Usually she soon
after comes back with the phrase, "I guess I could have .....". Waiting
(without engaging) for the readiness to decide, with or without the meltdown
behavior, can seem like an eternity. It really is less time than you think.


Just because she is screaming that you have to do it for her, doesn't mean
you actually do have to decide for her. She really won't choose to starve.

<<<If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for
hours,>>>>

Are you interacting with her when she is quietly playing, or only in
response to her getting loud or initiating requests? Jayn sometimes doesn't
like it when my attention is diverted from her by the phone, but sometimes I
just have to stick my finger in my spare ear, momentarily, when it is a
business call for dh (usually just taking a quick message). If she has been
playing quietly, I sometimes forget that she may be viewing me as an
audience to her fantasy play and sees the phone as an interruption of our
"conversation". I ask her to please be quiet - I have to say that usually
she subsides to a point. However I rarely make outgoing calls without first
negotiating with her for some time to do so.

<<<<<if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear
eachother, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a
show, after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as
possible.>>>>

Jayn switches the set off repeatedly - so we have stopped engaging in that
particular battle. Dh goes to watch in the other room. I have just become
resigned to recording everything I hope to view. Sometimes if I put on a DVD
for her, I can go to the bedroom and watch TV with dh for a while. In terms
of interrupting our conversations, it is usually because Jayn is after his
attention rather than mine. Could your dh give her some intense playing
attention for a while in the evening when you are most drained?

<<<How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.>>>>

Breathe and try to stay centered. One thing may be to stop expecting
"respect" from her. The idea behind modeling respectful treatment of her and
the other family members to each other, is that *eventually* she will also
behave that kind way automatically and naturally. She is behaving 4.5 at the
moment. It will pass. Jayn is already less obnoxious than she was three
months ago.

This is going to sound dumb, but try and get some rest, OK?

Robyn L. Coburn



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Millie Rosa

Sherri-Lee,
I just want to send you a (((hug)))), bless your heart. I agree w what Ulrike said, that Hannah is probably reflecting some of your misery. These little folks are so in tune with their Mamas anyway, and also you know how they say when you perceive something about someone you are reacting to something about yourself
For concrete suggestions...does Hannah like to play on the computer? My Will plays for hours without a peep and this is my best idea when I need him to give me time, space, or peace...I usually keep a new game for just such an occasion.
I agree that you need to get your dh to pick up some slack; help to entertain Hannah when he is home, wash dishes, cook food, pick up toys, whatever. And yes, of course, get all the rest that you can! Bless your heart; I am sorry you are having a rough time of it! Good luck w the impending birth!
Love,
Millie

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catherine aceto

Wow, Robyn, what a great post.

I agree with everything Robyn said (especially about getting all the help
that you can with everything around the house).

Lydia was often as you describe your daughter at 4.5 (when I was 8 mos preg
with her brother). At nearly 7, she is not like that at all. Once the
baby was born, though, I faithfully arranged to have at least an hour every
day just with her, while the baby was napping, interacting with my husband,
etc. That was very hard (because I wanted that time to just be ALONE), but
I think it really helped her adjustment to having another member of the
family. After the baby was born, I also spent 3 or 4 afternoons a week at
the house of friend with a child Lydia's age. The kids played, the baby and
I napped on the couch, and the friend brought me juice at intervals. That
was really a lifesaver for me.

My best advice is really to breathe and remain calm and cheerful, so that
you are not modelling unpleasant behavior to her, and wait it out. Smell
her head. Look at her baby pictures. Remind yourself that it will get
better.

-Cat

J. Stauffer

<<<<"She is driving me crazy"? >>>>

I think you are right on target that she is reacting to the changes in you.

I would suggest lots and lots of cuddle time. If you are watching tv, ask her to join you. If she is coloring, walk past and kiss her head. Take lots of warm bubble baths and perhaps a backrub with lavender oils when she starts to get wound up.

It is hard but try to remember that she isn't attacking you....she is unsettled by the changes that she can't understand and she is asking (in a 4yo way) for you to reassure her that everything is ok.

Julie S.---who sympathizes
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help


Hi everyone,



I just didn't know what else to title this: "She is driving me crazy"? "I am
loosing my mind"? "my beautiful daughter has become a misery"?



What ever I thought it was all so negative, and maybe that is all I need is
a good solid kicking of an attitude adjustment, that is administered gently
given my 8 months pregnancy situation?



I don't know, I just know I am so sad at the way things are these days.



Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of energy
in the last month?



Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she has
ever had. I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.



She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more toys
all something I have to do for her, and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear you
now".



If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for hours,
if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear each
other, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a show,
after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts talking
and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as possible.



OK. so it is becoming obvious to me as I read this that some of this
behaviour is a reaction to my seeming to have less time and energy for her.
Yes I have less time and energy for her so where do I find it for her so she
doesn't feel so ignored? I spend all day with her, I give her all I can. by
the end of the day I am drained by her constant chatter and demands and
tantrums. Hmmmm. she is constantly pulling me closer to her and wanting to
control and dominate me and then when I get with her, she pushes me away.
Ok. so what approach do I take, what can I do to fill her up with what she
needs? What does she need? How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.



I know this isn't really an unschooling issue, but I really appreciate any
insight you wonderful women can shed, I respect your opinions and life
experiences so much, thank you in advance for your help,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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msf42967

Hi Sherri-Lee,
I can't believe that you are going through the exact same thing that
I am going through. I just read what you wrote and I was amazed. I'm
9 months pregnant due any day. And my 7yr.old is doing exactly what
your daughter is doing. He can't decide on anything on his own. I
have to guess what he wants to eat, to play or to do. I get Sooooooo
frustrated. And just want to scream. He is my youngest child and
number 4 will be here any day. This all started in my 3rd trimester,
when he realized he wasn't going to be the baby any more. I know
what you're going through. I'm living it right now. All I can tell
you is that I have to seperate myself from him just to breath. Sorry
that I don't have good advise. I just wanted to let you know that
I'm in the same boat that you're in.
Good Luck, and I hope that things get better soon.
Mila




--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman
<sherri--lee@s...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I just didn't know what else to title this: "She is driving me
crazy"? "I am
> loosing my mind"? "my beautiful daughter has become a misery"?
>
>
>
> What ever I thought it was all so negative, and maybe that is all
I need is
> a good solid kicking of an attitude adjustment, that is
administered gently
> given my 8 months pregnancy situation?
>
>
>
> I don't know, I just know I am so sad at the way things are these
days.
>
>
>
> Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative,
unpleasant child
> for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is
mad at me.
> mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack
of energy
> in the last month?
>
>
>
> Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she
wants it she
> screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you
have to",
> "but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is
greeted with
> screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper
tantrums she has
> ever had. I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes
often, but
> I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that
is how they
> are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do
this!" "mommy I need
> this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will
just *know*
> what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the
wrong thing
> (no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.
>
>
>
> She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in
reaction to
> the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is
standing with
> her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at
the
> opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get
that for
> her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water,
more toys
> all something I have to do for her, and yet she has developed and
complete
> inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes
and then
> rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't
make a
> decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to
mind read and
> know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I
suggest is
> rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have
another
> melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide
and I have
> to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she
couldn't
> decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted
me to
> decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try
to explain
> anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to
hear you
> now".
>
>
>
> If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet
for hours,
> if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't
hear each
> other, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch
a show,
> after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking
> and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as possible.
>
>
>
> OK. so it is becoming obvious to me as I read this that some of
this
> behaviour is a reaction to my seeming to have less time and energy
for her.
> Yes I have less time and energy for her so where do I find it for
her so she
> doesn't feel so ignored? I spend all day with her, I give her all
I can. by
> the end of the day I am drained by her constant chatter and
demands and
> tantrums. Hmmmm. she is constantly pulling me closer to her and
wanting to
> control and dominate me and then when I get with her, she pushes
me away.
> Ok. so what approach do I take, what can I do to fill her up with
what she
> needs? What does she need? How do I handle this and respect her
and me.
> Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.
>
>
>
> I know this isn't really an unschooling issue, but I really
appreciate any
> insight you wonderful women can shed, I respect your opinions and
life
> experiences so much, thank you in advance for your help,
>
>
>
> Sherri-Lee
>
> Need safe and natural health products?
>
> http://www.aloeessence.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Robyn,

What a fantastic post, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

I *knew* her behaviour was age appropriate, not pleasant but not surprising
for her age. I just didn't expect it to feel so personal. I guess that is
increased by my pregnancy hormones.

I read your post this morning and it energized me for our day. We had a much
better day and in fact I managed to have more energy and a more positive
approach. She asked me to get her water, when it was inconvenient for me and
not her, I just did it. The surprise and pleasure in her voice was
noticeable. Did it make her feel special?

She did not speak in an angry or demanding tone so I didn't have to ignore
it, but perhaps that was because I wasn't so impatient.

Yes I am overwhelmed and feeling a bit resentful. Thank you for articulating
it because it helped me to see it. My dh, works very hard and in my opinion,
doesn't do all he could around here to help with the parenting. I don't
expect him to do housework or anything but he goes in fits and spurts in his
parenting interests and that does add to my stress. Lately however, he has
been pitching in more without my having to ask and that has helped a lot. He
spends time with her each morning wrestling and playing and then time with
her again each evening after dinner. This is new and has been very
appreciated. I told him that today and he seemed to appreciate me saying
that and did even more today.

I met with a woman yesterday to come in and help with house stuff after the
baby comes, but decided we will get her in once a week starting now to do
house cleaning, laundry, making beds etc. So that is a good decision that I
am sure will help.

It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating but
reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what colour
of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you know?
Maybe it is her way of trying to get me involved with what she is doing?

I am breathing... and trying to not expect respect from her... that seems
harder when you are feeling resentful right? Ok... thank you SO much for
your thoughts on this, it really was so helpful to come downstairs to read
this this morning, AND to hear it will pass hopefully fairly soon:)

I was beginning to think that this behaviour was a result of our shift to
unschooling as it was the only big change I could think of that we had done
recently. And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.

Anyway, thank you again for your help today,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of energy
in the last month?
Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she has
ever had>>>>>

If you read some of the Child Development books (eg: "Child Behavior from
one til ten" or "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames) from Gessell Institute
(and don't read the school preparedness chapters because they are
irrelevant, and ignore the Cry it out sleep suggestions obviously) you may
be relieved to learn that they consider much of this type of behavior
typical of 4.5 year olds. Whether their suggestions are of any use to you
would be another matter.

Jayn (4.75) does many, in fact almost all of the same obnoxious behaviors,
but in your case I would guess that they are being exacerbated by your very
pregnant situation - both in terms of your emotionally vunerable state,
physical energy limitations, and Hannah's possible regressive reaction to
the upcoming baby.

<<<< I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.>>>>

Look really hard at the "no's" you are saying. There is a huge difference
between "can't" and "won't".

If you can, absolutely ignore the demanding tone of voice and fulfill the
request cheerfully anyway, which is what I do mostly with Jayn. It does take
the wind out of the incipient meltdown a lot of the time. Sometimes I
mention in passing that she sounded really demanding or angry to me when she
spoke, but I never reply in kind to her.

When she has an angry blasting meltdown, I let Jayn's anger just bounce off
me, like a beach ball you aren't catching - it will get less (or impinge on
you less). I'm talking about "detachment" from her emotions, NOT ignoring
her or her requests. Just not allowing her frenzy to get me upset, while
still validating emotions back - "you sound very angry/frustrated". She will
go on and I will say something very neutral like "What a shame." It helps
her go through the meltdown, and restore her own balance.

Sometimes I also remind Jayn to take some deep breaths if she is starting to
get angry. Sometimes her only relief is still to shriek. One good one and
she is often better.

<<<She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more toys
all something I have to do for her, >>>

There is a lot of overwhelm and resentment coming through in your post -
lot's of emphatic negative words. Are you getting enough help with the day
to day stuff like the housework? Are you getting any support from dh for
your emotional ups and downs as hormones shift? Are you trying to do too
much, when all you want to do is sit and contemplate the new baby? If you
can find a way to transfer responsibility for everything other than Hannah
and your own immediate comfort to someone else (a temporary house cleaning
service? Ordering in dinner? Paying someone to come in and do the laundry?
Home delivery of groceries?) maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed.

<<<<and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear you
now".>>>>>

This indecisiveness is also a kind of normal development phase with some
personalities, according to what I have read, although she *is*
communicating clearly and definitively when she says she "doesn't want to
hear you now". Short phrases, not long reasoned explanations, might be the
solution here. As much as you may want her to understand where you are
coming from, emotionally or intellectually, it shouldn't be her
responsibility to have to do so. She may feel your explaining as an
emotional burden.

One of the things I do with Jayn when she is rejecting all the possibilities
for say a snack, is just let it go, with "well I don't know dear. What do
you think?" or "That's all we have." Then I wait it out. Usually she soon
after comes back with the phrase, "I guess I could have .....". Waiting
(without engaging) for the readiness to decide, with or without the meltdown
behavior, can seem like an eternity. It really is less time than you think.


Just because she is screaming that you have to do it for her, doesn't mean
you actually do have to decide for her. She really won't choose to starve.

<<<If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for
hours,>>>>

Are you interacting with her when she is quietly playing, or only in
response to her getting loud or initiating requests? Jayn sometimes doesn't
like it when my attention is diverted from her by the phone, but sometimes I
just have to stick my finger in my spare ear, momentarily, when it is a
business call for dh (usually just taking a quick message). If she has been
playing quietly, I sometimes forget that she may be viewing me as an
audience to her fantasy play and sees the phone as an interruption of our
"conversation". I ask her to please be quiet - I have to say that usually
she subsides to a point. However I rarely make outgoing calls without first
negotiating with her for some time to do so.

<<<<<if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear
eachother, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a
show, after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as
possible.>>>>

Jayn switches the set off repeatedly - so we have stopped engaging in that
particular battle. Dh goes to watch in the other room. I have just become
resigned to recording everything I hope to view. Sometimes if I put on a DVD
for her, I can go to the bedroom and watch TV with dh for a while. In terms
of interrupting our conversations, it is usually because Jayn is after his
attention rather than mine. Could your dh give her some intense playing
attention for a while in the evening when you are most drained?

<<<How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.>>>>

Breathe and try to stay centered. One thing may be to stop expecting
"respect" from her. The idea behind modeling respectful treatment of her and
the other family members to each other, is that *eventually* she will also
behave that kind way automatically and naturally. She is behaving 4.5 at the
moment. It will pass. Jayn is already less obnoxious than she was three
months ago.

This is going to sound dumb, but try and get some rest, OK?

Robyn L. Coburn



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Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Millie,

Thanks for the thoughts.

My dh has been doing more around here that is for sure and with her.
However, he works very hard, having his own business and all and is well....
old LOL... so he only has so much energy too it seems. I am going to get
someone in to help out more with the housework etc which should help.

Hannah does like playing on the computer. She has some games now and has
spent time each day playing (we got a new Dora game for her today) and she
loves it... but she isn't quite there with doing it on her own, unless she
has played the game a few times. But it is a nice break yes.

I am sure my "rough time" is of my own creation, so I have to work on my own
attitude I think,

To be honest, I feel like I just want to be left alone, for one day just one
day to just sit and veg and watch TV and play on the computer and not have
to talk to ANYONE unless I want to. Selfish huh? And would that really make
that much of a difference? I don't know.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Millie Rosa [mailto:willsmamamillie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

Sherri-Lee,
I just want to send you a (((hug)))), bless your heart. I agree w what
Ulrike said, that Hannah is probably reflecting some of your misery. These
little folks are so in tune with their Mamas anyway, and also you know how
they say when you perceive something about someone you are reacting to
something about yourself
For concrete suggestions...does Hannah like to play on the computer? My
Will plays for hours without a peep and this is my best idea when I need him
to give me time, space, or peace...I usually keep a new game for just such
an occasion.
I agree that you need to get your dh to pick up some slack; help to
entertain Hannah when he is home, wash dishes, cook food, pick up toys,
whatever. And yes, of course, get all the rest that you can! Bless your
heart; I am sorry you are having a rough time of it! Good luck w the
impending birth!
Love,
Millie

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Cat,

These are really good suggestions. Thank you. I will have to make sure to
schedule time alone for me and Hannah each day after the baby is born.

I don't think I have a friend I could impose on like that, lucky you!

My dh has committed to taking Hannah to her classes after the baby is born
at least so that part of her routine won't be disrupted too much.

Thanks again, you gave me more to think about,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: catherine aceto [mailto:aceto3@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

Wow, Robyn, what a great post.

I agree with everything Robyn said (especially about getting all the help
that you can with everything around the house).

Lydia was often as you describe your daughter at 4.5 (when I was 8 mos preg
with her brother). At nearly 7, she is not like that at all. Once the
baby was born, though, I faithfully arranged to have at least an hour every
day just with her, while the baby was napping, interacting with my husband,
etc. That was very hard (because I wanted that time to just be ALONE), but

I think it really helped her adjustment to having another member of the
family. After the baby was born, I also spent 3 or 4 afternoons a week at
the house of friend with a child Lydia's age. The kids played, the baby and
I napped on the couch, and the friend brought me juice at intervals. That
was really a lifesaver for me.

My best advice is really to breathe and remain calm and cheerful, so that
you are not modelling unpleasant behavior to her, and wait it out. Smell
her head. Look at her baby pictures. Remind yourself that it will get
better.

-Cat





Yahoo! Groups Links

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Mila,

Thank you! Even knowing I am not alone in this sure helps,

Good luck to you in your birth and the adjustment,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com


-----Original Message-----
From: msf42967 [mailto:msf42967@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help

Hi Sherri-Lee,
I can't believe that you are going through the exact same thing that
I am going through. I just read what you wrote and I was amazed. I'm
9 months pregnant due any day. And my 7yr.old is doing exactly what
your daughter is doing. He can't decide on anything on his own. I
have to guess what he wants to eat, to play or to do. I get Sooooooo
frustrated. And just want to scream. He is my youngest child and
number 4 will be here any day. This all started in my 3rd trimester,
when he realized he wasn't going to be the baby any more. I know
what you're going through. I'm living it right now. All I can tell
you is that I have to seperate myself from him just to breath. Sorry
that I don't have good advise. I just wanted to let you know that
I'm in the same boat that you're in.
Good Luck, and I hope that things get better soon.
Mila




--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman
<sherri--lee@s...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I just didn't know what else to title this: "She is driving me
crazy"? "I am
> loosing my mind"? "my beautiful daughter has become a misery"?
>
>
>
> What ever I thought it was all so negative, and maybe that is all
I need is
> a good solid kicking of an attitude adjustment, that is
administered gently
> given my 8 months pregnancy situation?
>
>
>
> I don't know, I just know I am so sad at the way things are these
days.
>
>
>
> Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative,
unpleasant child
> for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is
mad at me.
> mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack
of energy
> in the last month?
>
>
>
> Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she
wants it she
> screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you
have to",
> "but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is
greeted with
> screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper
tantrums she has
> ever had. I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes
often, but
> I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that
is how they
> are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do
this!" "mommy I need
> this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will
just *know*
> what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the
wrong thing
> (no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.
>
>
>
> She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in
reaction to
> the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is
standing with
> her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at
the
> opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get
that for
> her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water,
more toys
> all something I have to do for her, and yet she has developed and
complete
> inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes
and then
> rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't
make a
> decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to
mind read and
> know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I
suggest is
> rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have
another
> melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide
and I have
> to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she
couldn't
> decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted
me to
> decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try
to explain
> anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to
hear you
> now".
>
>
>
> If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet
for hours,
> if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't
hear each
> other, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch
a show,
> after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking
> and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as possible.
>
>
>
> OK. so it is becoming obvious to me as I read this that some of
this
> behaviour is a reaction to my seeming to have less time and energy
for her.
> Yes I have less time and energy for her so where do I find it for
her so she
> doesn't feel so ignored? I spend all day with her, I give her all
I can. by
> the end of the day I am drained by her constant chatter and
demands and
> tantrums. Hmmmm. she is constantly pulling me closer to her and
wanting to
> control and dominate me and then when I get with her, she pushes
me away.
> Ok. so what approach do I take, what can I do to fill her up with
what she
> needs? What does she need? How do I handle this and respect her
and me.
> Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.
>
>
>
> I know this isn't really an unschooling issue, but I really
appreciate any
> insight you wonderful women can shed, I respect your opinions and
life
> experiences so much, thank you in advance for your help,
>
>
>
> Sherri-Lee
>
> Need safe and natural health products?
>
> http://www.aloeessence.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Julie,

You are so right, thank you! It is so hard to remember that she isn't
attacking me personally when it feels that way and of course the hormones
make it worse.

It has been hard to see her as unsettled about this when outwardly she has
been so excited about the baby all the time. But I see looking a little
closer that perhaps that is the case, she is feeling unsure of all of this
and of course it is hard to hear mommy say "I can't do XXX because of this
big belly" over and over. Or to have me so tired all the time because of it.
Guess we could be breeding some resentment in her huh?

WOW this is SO hard. I often wonder what have I done?

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Stauffer [mailto:jnjstau@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<<"She is driving me crazy"? >>>>

I think you are right on target that she is reacting to the changes in you.


I would suggest lots and lots of cuddle time. If you are watching tv, ask
her to join you. If she is coloring, walk past and kiss her head. Take
lots of warm bubble baths and perhaps a backrub with lavender oils when she
starts to get wound up.

It is hard but try to remember that she isn't attacking you....she is
unsettled by the changes that she can't understand and she is asking (in a
4yo way) for you to reassure her that everything is ok.

Julie S.---who sympathizes
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help


Hi everyone,



I just didn't know what else to title this: "She is driving me crazy"? "I
am
loosing my mind"? "my beautiful daughter has become a misery"?



What ever I thought it was all so negative, and maybe that is all I need
is
a good solid kicking of an attitude adjustment, that is administered
gently
given my 8 months pregnancy situation?



I don't know, I just know I am so sad at the way things are these days.



Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at
me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of
energy
in the last month?



Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she
has
ever had. I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often,
but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how
they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong
thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.



She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing
with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more
toys
all something I have to do for her, and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read
and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest
is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I
have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to
explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear
you
now".



If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for hours,
if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear each
other, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a show,
after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts talking
and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as possible.



OK. so it is becoming obvious to me as I read this that some of this
behaviour is a reaction to my seeming to have less time and energy for
her.
Yes I have less time and energy for her so where do I find it for her so
she
doesn't feel so ignored? I spend all day with her, I give her all I can.
by
the end of the day I am drained by her constant chatter and demands and
tantrums. Hmmmm. she is constantly pulling me closer to her and wanting to
control and dominate me and then when I get with her, she pushes me away.
Ok. so what approach do I take, what can I do to fill her up with what she
needs? What does she need? How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.



I know this isn't really an unschooling issue, but I really appreciate any
insight you wonderful women can shed, I respect your opinions and life
experiences so much, thank you in advance for your help,



Sherri-Lee

Need safe and natural health products?

http://www.aloeessence.com





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melissazietlow

Sherri,

The way you described your dd sounds like some of my desperate posts
to various lists from not so long ago. She was 4.5 and I was in my
3rd trimester. I was as drained and frustrated as you with the
behavior, demands and conflicts. From the wise people on several
boards and a myriad of parenting books, I learned that much of it
indeed was/is NORMAL for her age.

I began to emotionally detach myself from it, which is a lifesaver.
It is hard to let our child express their emotions when they make us
uncomfortable, and not to take them personally. It is also difficult
to step away from the need to feel respected at all times, and work
on being respectful and accepting of the child no matter what.

We cannot expect them to act like adults, but the secret, really
seems to be giving them the same acceptance and respect as other
adults. We model what we want. The benefit in doing so, I am finding,
is that it then frees me up to share wuth my dd how what she is doing
makes me feel. It has really helped to let her in on my perspective -
"boy, when you yell at me like that it makes me feel sad" or "sure
I'll try to help you but I would appreciate if you asked me nicly
next time" or "I need your understanding and help right now" or "it
really frustrates me when you ____" or "try that again sweetly,
please". I just started talking and talking to her like she was/is
another adult, and she listens. Her behavior did not immediately
change but over time, I am seeing that she is responding.

I also began naming/validating her feelings more without offering
a "fix" for the situation -- "you seem really angry. How can I help
you feel better?" And I have also been offering positive time-outs,
as in "I see you are very frustrated right now. Perhaps it will help
if you take a break to calm down and feel better. Can I help you to
your room (or other chosen place)? Would you like to bring a toy?
Would you like me to sit with you for awhile? When you feel better,
we can talk. Come out when you are ready." I also have been giving
myself time-outs - "I am feeling very bothered right now, I think I
need to take a break in the other room until I feel better." It has
really seemed to help for her to see me do this, and she almost
always shifts her focus away from herself out of concern for me.

Seems like alot to undertake when very pregnant, but even though I
too just wanted to be ALONE, I decided that since that was mostly not
an option, I made it a mission to be carried out in slow motion. I
couldn't do much else (had to let many things go, like housework) but
it was worth it.

If you believe, pray about it. I pray all day, at every neccessary
moment. Sometimes she looks at me like I am crazy, because I have
such a delayed reaction while I search for wisdom. But it often
diffuses. So does a blank look and "I love you" when she is
shrieking for something or giving me a nasty look.

I also played "Everything's Gonna Be Alright" by Deanna Carter and
other inspirational music on repeat for all to hear many a day (still
do).

Bless you,
Melissa Z.

J. Stauffer

<<<<And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.>>>>

I don't know how you are handling this but open-ended questions can be overwhelming for young kids, like "what would you like for breakfast?", particularly kids not used to making those kinds of decisions or that are currently stressed.

You might try offering her a couple of options and if those don't appeal to her, perhaps a couple of more options, like "How about oatmeal or cheerios?"

Just a thought.

Julie S.


----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help


Robyn,

What a fantastic post, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

I *knew* her behaviour was age appropriate, not pleasant but not surprising
for her age. I just didn't expect it to feel so personal. I guess that is
increased by my pregnancy hormones.

I read your post this morning and it energized me for our day. We had a much
better day and in fact I managed to have more energy and a more positive
approach. She asked me to get her water, when it was inconvenient for me and
not her, I just did it. The surprise and pleasure in her voice was
noticeable. Did it make her feel special?

She did not speak in an angry or demanding tone so I didn't have to ignore
it, but perhaps that was because I wasn't so impatient.

Yes I am overwhelmed and feeling a bit resentful. Thank you for articulating
it because it helped me to see it. My dh, works very hard and in my opinion,
doesn't do all he could around here to help with the parenting. I don't
expect him to do housework or anything but he goes in fits and spurts in his
parenting interests and that does add to my stress. Lately however, he has
been pitching in more without my having to ask and that has helped a lot. He
spends time with her each morning wrestling and playing and then time with
her again each evening after dinner. This is new and has been very
appreciated. I told him that today and he seemed to appreciate me saying
that and did even more today.

I met with a woman yesterday to come in and help with house stuff after the
baby comes, but decided we will get her in once a week starting now to do
house cleaning, laundry, making beds etc. So that is a good decision that I
am sure will help.

It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating but
reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what colour
of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you know?
Maybe it is her way of trying to get me involved with what she is doing?

I am breathing... and trying to not expect respect from her... that seems
harder when you are feeling resentful right? Ok... thank you SO much for
your thoughts on this, it really was so helpful to come downstairs to read
this this morning, AND to hear it will pass hopefully fairly soon:)

I was beginning to think that this behaviour was a result of our shift to
unschooling as it was the only big change I could think of that we had done
recently. And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.

Anyway, thank you again for your help today,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of energy
in the last month?
Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she has
ever had>>>>>

If you read some of the Child Development books (eg: "Child Behavior from
one til ten" or "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames) from Gessell Institute
(and don't read the school preparedness chapters because they are
irrelevant, and ignore the Cry it out sleep suggestions obviously) you may
be relieved to learn that they consider much of this type of behavior
typical of 4.5 year olds. Whether their suggestions are of any use to you
would be another matter.

Jayn (4.75) does many, in fact almost all of the same obnoxious behaviors,
but in your case I would guess that they are being exacerbated by your very
pregnant situation - both in terms of your emotionally vunerable state,
physical energy limitations, and Hannah's possible regressive reaction to
the upcoming baby.

<<<< I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.>>>>

Look really hard at the "no's" you are saying. There is a huge difference
between "can't" and "won't".

If you can, absolutely ignore the demanding tone of voice and fulfill the
request cheerfully anyway, which is what I do mostly with Jayn. It does take
the wind out of the incipient meltdown a lot of the time. Sometimes I
mention in passing that she sounded really demanding or angry to me when she
spoke, but I never reply in kind to her.

When she has an angry blasting meltdown, I let Jayn's anger just bounce off
me, like a beach ball you aren't catching - it will get less (or impinge on
you less). I'm talking about "detachment" from her emotions, NOT ignoring
her or her requests. Just not allowing her frenzy to get me upset, while
still validating emotions back - "you sound very angry/frustrated". She will
go on and I will say something very neutral like "What a shame." It helps
her go through the meltdown, and restore her own balance.

Sometimes I also remind Jayn to take some deep breaths if she is starting to
get angry. Sometimes her only relief is still to shriek. One good one and
she is often better.

<<<She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more toys
all something I have to do for her, >>>

There is a lot of overwhelm and resentment coming through in your post -
lot's of emphatic negative words. Are you getting enough help with the day
to day stuff like the housework? Are you getting any support from dh for
your emotional ups and downs as hormones shift? Are you trying to do too
much, when all you want to do is sit and contemplate the new baby? If you
can find a way to transfer responsibility for everything other than Hannah
and your own immediate comfort to someone else (a temporary house cleaning
service? Ordering in dinner? Paying someone to come in and do the laundry?
Home delivery of groceries?) maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed.

<<<<and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear you
now".>>>>>

This indecisiveness is also a kind of normal development phase with some
personalities, according to what I have read, although she *is*
communicating clearly and definitively when she says she "doesn't want to
hear you now". Short phrases, not long reasoned explanations, might be the
solution here. As much as you may want her to understand where you are
coming from, emotionally or intellectually, it shouldn't be her
responsibility to have to do so. She may feel your explaining as an
emotional burden.

One of the things I do with Jayn when she is rejecting all the possibilities
for say a snack, is just let it go, with "well I don't know dear. What do
you think?" or "That's all we have." Then I wait it out. Usually she soon
after comes back with the phrase, "I guess I could have .....". Waiting
(without engaging) for the readiness to decide, with or without the meltdown
behavior, can seem like an eternity. It really is less time than you think.


Just because she is screaming that you have to do it for her, doesn't mean
you actually do have to decide for her. She really won't choose to starve.

<<<If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for
hours,>>>>

Are you interacting with her when she is quietly playing, or only in
response to her getting loud or initiating requests? Jayn sometimes doesn't
like it when my attention is diverted from her by the phone, but sometimes I
just have to stick my finger in my spare ear, momentarily, when it is a
business call for dh (usually just taking a quick message). If she has been
playing quietly, I sometimes forget that she may be viewing me as an
audience to her fantasy play and sees the phone as an interruption of our
"conversation". I ask her to please be quiet - I have to say that usually
she subsides to a point. However I rarely make outgoing calls without first
negotiating with her for some time to do so.

<<<<<if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear
eachother, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a
show, after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as
possible.>>>>

Jayn switches the set off repeatedly - so we have stopped engaging in that
particular battle. Dh goes to watch in the other room. I have just become
resigned to recording everything I hope to view. Sometimes if I put on a DVD
for her, I can go to the bedroom and watch TV with dh for a while. In terms
of interrupting our conversations, it is usually because Jayn is after his
attention rather than mine. Could your dh give her some intense playing
attention for a while in the evening when you are most drained?

<<<How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.>>>>

Breathe and try to stay centered. One thing may be to stop expecting
"respect" from her. The idea behind modeling respectful treatment of her and
the other family members to each other, is that *eventually* she will also
behave that kind way automatically and naturally. She is behaving 4.5 at the
moment. It will pass. Jayn is already less obnoxious than she was three
months ago.

This is going to sound dumb, but try and get some rest, OK?

Robyn L. Coburn



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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/15/2004 12:35:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:


To be honest, I feel like I just want to be left alone, for one day just one
day to just sit and veg and watch TV and play on the computer and not have
to talk to ANYONE unless I want to. Selfish huh? And would that really make
that much of a difference? I don't know.<<<<

Sherri-Lee,

*I* feel that way with two independent boys, 16 and eight! <G>

So *that* is not just being pregnant with a four year old! <BWG> She whether
you could arrange that. Maybe your husband and daughter could go visit his
mom for the weekend. Ben used to do that (until the tension got too thick).
Now they'll all go camping without me. I get the house to myself, I can eat what
I want---or not, I have full control over the remote, I can garden, sleep,
play on the 'puter, talk with friends, stare at the ceiling---whatever----for
two days! Two or three times a year is all I need----but I *do* need it. And
I ask for it.

Maybe ask? <g>

~Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<I don't know how you are handling this but open-ended questions can be
overwhelming for young kids, like "what would you like for breakfast?",
particularly kids not used to making those kinds of decisions or that are
currently stressed.

You might try offering her a couple of options and if those don't appeal to
her, perhaps a couple of more options, like "How about oatmeal or
cheerios?">>>

This is a good point.

When Jayn doesn't know what she feels like eating for breakfast, I will
often say, "Well I'm going to have ...." and she will often want the same,
especially once she sees me eating it. Or it crystallizes what she does not
want for her. I always make extra bacon - it keeps for BLT's later anyway.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Robyn Coburn

<<<I read your post this morning and it energized me for our day. We had a
much better day and in fact I managed to have more energy and a more
positive approach. >>>

I'm so glad.

<<<< Yes I am overwhelmed and feeling a bit resentful. Thank you for
articulating
it because it helped me to see it. My dh, works very hard and in my opinion,
doesn't do all he could around here to help with the parenting. I don't
expect him to do housework or anything but he goes in fits and spurts in his
parenting interests and that does add to my stress. Lately however, he has
been pitching in more without my having to ask and that has helped a lot. He
spends time with her each morning wrestling and playing and then time with
her again each evening after dinner. This is new and has been very
appreciated. I told him that today and he seemed to appreciate me saying
that and did even more today.>>>>

This is another illustration of the phenomenon that made the "Mars/Venus"
guy a fortune. Men do seem to communicate differently than women do.

My dh, James, just has to be asked for help. He will always assume that I am
OK unless I tell him otherwise, and hints or irony go right past him. He
also assumes he is doing enough unless I ask for more help. Plus even the
tiniest amount of appreciation goes a huge way with him, just as even the
tiniest criticism just about destroys him - the broken little boy comes back
and then gets defensive. It can be disconcerting to realize that our big,
grown husbands sometimes seem to respond best to the same strategies that a
doggie will respond to, rather than like a rational person. ;)

As an added bonus modeling gratitude, approval and appreciation as primary
techniques for maintaining a loving marital relationship is also good for
our children.

<<<It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating
but reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what
colour of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you
know? Maybe it is her way of trying to get me involved with what she is
doing?>>>

A sound notion.

Sometimes Jayn just wants me to sit with her, and I really try to do so as
much as possible, even though sometimes I feel driven crazy by boredom. I
sometimes have a book with me. Picture us: I am sitting on one chair, with
Jayn sitting either on my lap or between my knees. She is using the computer
mouse and key board, while I hold a book or magazine out to the side to
read, while still answering her questions and helping her to read the
screen.

BTW I know all about that particular website believe me - one of Jayn's
favorites. :)

<<<I was beginning to think that this behaviour was a result of our shift to
unschooling as it was the only big change I could think of that we had done
recently. And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.>>>>

Sometimes there is a certain appearance of wildness as the freedoms are
grasped, but things calm down over time. Sometimes it is a reaction to the
fear that controls will be reinstituted and so "let's grab all we can now",
although that doesn't sound like the dynamic you have described.

What do you mean by pulling back? I mean what actions would you be then
taking? It might be counter-productive if it ends up being more work
(emotionally draining) for you to have to enforce certain choices. Maybe
look back at why you wanted to live this way in the first place....

Maybe Hannah just needs more practice at getting good at making choices and
gaining the feeling of confidence in herself. I have to say that we have
always lived this utterly free way, so my thoughts in this area may be less
helpful than others who have been through the process of changing.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Melissa,

Thank you for this. I remembered it this morning as my dd ranted and railed
because her father stopped playing with her after 30 minutes of wrestling,
to go back to work. She was then over hungry and frustrated and mad and I
got the brunt of it. Screaming and shouting and kicking. Screaming go away
and leave me alone, but the second I get up to do what she wants, she is
grabbing at me, tripping me and screaming "please stay with me mommy!" I
find this SO hard. But I think I did well. I literally folded my lips up
between my teeth and just sat on the bed and listened. When she was rude to
me I would say "of course I will do so and so for you, but then I would do
it if you asked politely too". This went on for over 30 minutes, hardly
makes 30 minutes of play seem well... worthwhile. Wanted desperately to say
"if you keep this up daddy won't play with you in the mornings anymore" but
I didn't. But I have to say I felt resentment at being left to deal with the
fall out of the play.

She wanted me to carry her down the stairs, I said I would piggy back her,
but being this pregnant I wasn't comfortable carrying her on my front down
stairs anymore. Well that set her off again. Totally refusing the piggy
back. Finally she wanted me to go ask her dad to come get her, which he did,
thankfully.

Then when we got downstairs, she tells him how mean I am to her, because I
got mad at her upstairs. Which I did not. I am so damned hormonal, I just
started to cry and looked at her told her that hurt my feelings and that it
was unfair. She just didn't care and went about her business.

Not a great start to the day. It has not gotten a lot better except when she
is on the computer playing her new Dora game. It is my computer though and I
don't get any time on it now, because asking her to share is like asking
Bush to leave Iraq.

I am trying to be detached from her emotions today, but it is hard.

I know she is acting this way partly because she is hungry, but she won't
stop on the computer to eat, so I get the end result. She won't leave the TV
to eat so I get the fall out. I am feeling really angry and resentful that I
ever let her on the computer or released limits on the TV when this is the
end result. Yes she can eat in front of the TV and we do that, but I will
not let her eat while on the computer. It is my laptop that I worked long
and hard to pay for and she will not eat while on it. So she says "leave it
over there and I will come and have a bite" but then she doesn't and gets
too hungry and I am the one who gets the fall out.

I am sorry this is SO off topic and just a bunch of whining. Thank you for
listening and thank you for your support,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: melissazietlow [mailto:Zietlowfamily@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help

Sherri,

The way you described your dd sounds like some of my desperate posts
to various lists from not so long ago. She was 4.5 and I was in my
3rd trimester. I was as drained and frustrated as you with the
behavior, demands and conflicts. From the wise people on several
boards and a myriad of parenting books, I learned that much of it
indeed was/is NORMAL for her age.

I began to emotionally detach myself from it, which is a lifesaver.
It is hard to let our child express their emotions when they make us
uncomfortable, and not to take them personally. It is also difficult
to step away from the need to feel respected at all times, and work
on being respectful and accepting of the child no matter what.

We cannot expect them to act like adults, but the secret, really
seems to be giving them the same acceptance and respect as other
adults. We model what we want. The benefit in doing so, I am finding,
is that it then frees me up to share wuth my dd how what she is doing
makes me feel. It has really helped to let her in on my perspective -
"boy, when you yell at me like that it makes me feel sad" or "sure
I'll try to help you but I would appreciate if you asked me nicly
next time" or "I need your understanding and help right now" or "it
really frustrates me when you ____" or "try that again sweetly,
please". I just started talking and talking to her like she was/is
another adult, and she listens. Her behavior did not immediately
change but over time, I am seeing that she is responding.

I also began naming/validating her feelings more without offering
a "fix" for the situation -- "you seem really angry. How can I help
you feel better?" And I have also been offering positive time-outs,
as in "I see you are very frustrated right now. Perhaps it will help
if you take a break to calm down and feel better. Can I help you to
your room (or other chosen place)? Would you like to bring a toy?
Would you like me to sit with you for awhile? When you feel better,
we can talk. Come out when you are ready." I also have been giving
myself time-outs - "I am feeling very bothered right now, I think I
need to take a break in the other room until I feel better." It has
really seemed to help for her to see me do this, and she almost
always shifts her focus away from herself out of concern for me.

Seems like alot to undertake when very pregnant, but even though I
too just wanted to be ALONE, I decided that since that was mostly not
an option, I made it a mission to be carried out in slow motion. I
couldn't do much else (had to let many things go, like housework) but
it was worth it.

If you believe, pray about it. I pray all day, at every neccessary
moment. Sometimes she looks at me like I am crazy, because I have
such a delayed reaction while I search for wisdom. But it often
diffuses. So does a blank look and "I love you" when she is
shrieking for something or giving me a nasty look.

I also played "Everything's Gonna Be Alright" by Deanna Carter and
other inspirational music on repeat for all to hear many a day (still
do).

Bless you,
Melissa Z.

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Julie,

I have said "what would you like?" because if we don't start with that and
she has something in mind, she gets very angry at us having the nerve to
suggest anything. So that is the first question. If she has nothing in mind
then she says "I don't know" and I start making suggestions. I always tell
her what I am having first, because she often wants that too and then I only
have to make one thing. If it is rejected, then I offer other things to her
as you suggest.

Thanks for the ideas, they confirmed what I was doing in that department was
ok at least:)

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Stauffer [mailto:jnjstau@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<<And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.>>>>

I don't know how you are handling this but open-ended questions can be
overwhelming for young kids, like "what would you like for breakfast?",
particularly kids not used to making those kinds of decisions or that are
currently stressed.

You might try offering her a couple of options and if those don't appeal to
her, perhaps a couple of more options, like "How about oatmeal or cheerios?"

Just a thought.

Julie S.


----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help


Robyn,

What a fantastic post, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

I *knew* her behaviour was age appropriate, not pleasant but not
surprising
for her age. I just didn't expect it to feel so personal. I guess that is
increased by my pregnancy hormones.

I read your post this morning and it energized me for our day. We had a
much
better day and in fact I managed to have more energy and a more positive
approach. She asked me to get her water, when it was inconvenient for me
and
not her, I just did it. The surprise and pleasure in her voice was
noticeable. Did it make her feel special?

She did not speak in an angry or demanding tone so I didn't have to
ignore
it, but perhaps that was because I wasn't so impatient.

Yes I am overwhelmed and feeling a bit resentful. Thank you for
articulating
it because it helped me to see it. My dh, works very hard and in my
opinion,
doesn't do all he could around here to help with the parenting. I don't
expect him to do housework or anything but he goes in fits and spurts in
his
parenting interests and that does add to my stress. Lately however, he has
been pitching in more without my having to ask and that has helped a lot.
He
spends time with her each morning wrestling and playing and then time with
her again each evening after dinner. This is new and has been very
appreciated. I told him that today and he seemed to appreciate me saying
that and did even more today.

I met with a woman yesterday to come in and help with house stuff after
the
baby comes, but decided we will get her in once a week starting now to do
house cleaning, laundry, making beds etc. So that is a good decision that
I
am sure will help.

It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating
but
reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what colour
of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you
know?
Maybe it is her way of trying to get me involved with what she is doing?

I am breathing... and trying to not expect respect from her... that seems
harder when you are feeling resentful right? Ok... thank you SO much for
your thoughts on this, it really was so helpful to come downstairs to read
this this morning, AND to hear it will pass hopefully fairly soon:)

I was beginning to think that this behaviour was a result of our shift to
unschooling as it was the only big change I could think of that we had
done
recently. And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable
of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the
case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.

Anyway, thank you again for your help today,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at
me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of
energy
in the last month?
Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she
has
ever had>>>>>

If you read some of the Child Development books (eg: "Child Behavior from
one til ten" or "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames) from Gessell
Institute
(and don't read the school preparedness chapters because they are
irrelevant, and ignore the Cry it out sleep suggestions obviously) you may
be relieved to learn that they consider much of this type of behavior
typical of 4.5 year olds. Whether their suggestions are of any use to you
would be another matter.

Jayn (4.75) does many, in fact almost all of the same obnoxious behaviors,
but in your case I would guess that they are being exacerbated by your
very
pregnant situation - both in terms of your emotionally vunerable state,
physical energy limitations, and Hannah's possible regressive reaction to
the upcoming baby.

<<<< I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how
they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong
thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.>>>>

Look really hard at the "no's" you are saying. There is a huge difference
between "can't" and "won't".

If you can, absolutely ignore the demanding tone of voice and fulfill the
request cheerfully anyway, which is what I do mostly with Jayn. It does
take
the wind out of the incipient meltdown a lot of the time. Sometimes I
mention in passing that she sounded really demanding or angry to me when
she
spoke, but I never reply in kind to her.

When she has an angry blasting meltdown, I let Jayn's anger just bounce
off
me, like a beach ball you aren't catching - it will get less (or impinge
on
you less). I'm talking about "detachment" from her emotions, NOT ignoring
her or her requests. Just not allowing her frenzy to get me upset, while
still validating emotions back - "you sound very angry/frustrated". She
will
go on and I will say something very neutral like "What a shame." It helps
her go through the meltdown, and restore her own balance.

Sometimes I also remind Jayn to take some deep breaths if she is starting
to
get angry. Sometimes her only relief is still to shriek. One good one and
she is often better.

<<<She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in
reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing
with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more
toys
all something I have to do for her, >>>

There is a lot of overwhelm and resentment coming through in your post -
lot's of emphatic negative words. Are you getting enough help with the day
to day stuff like the housework? Are you getting any support from dh for
your emotional ups and downs as hormones shift? Are you trying to do too
much, when all you want to do is sit and contemplate the new baby? If you
can find a way to transfer responsibility for everything other than Hannah
and your own immediate comfort to someone else (a temporary house cleaning
service? Ordering in dinner? Paying someone to come in and do the laundry?
Home delivery of groceries?) maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed.

<<<<and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read
and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest
is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I
have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to
explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear
you
now".>>>>>

This indecisiveness is also a kind of normal development phase with some
personalities, according to what I have read, although she *is*
communicating clearly and definitively when she says she "doesn't want to
hear you now". Short phrases, not long reasoned explanations, might be the
solution here. As much as you may want her to understand where you are
coming from, emotionally or intellectually, it shouldn't be her
responsibility to have to do so. She may feel your explaining as an
emotional burden.

One of the things I do with Jayn when she is rejecting all the
possibilities
for say a snack, is just let it go, with "well I don't know dear. What do
you think?" or "That's all we have." Then I wait it out. Usually she soon
after comes back with the phrase, "I guess I could have .....". Waiting
(without engaging) for the readiness to decide, with or without the
meltdown
behavior, can seem like an eternity. It really is less time than you
think.


Just because she is screaming that you have to do it for her, doesn't mean
you actually do have to decide for her. She really won't choose to starve.

<<<If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for
hours,>>>>

Are you interacting with her when she is quietly playing, or only in
response to her getting loud or initiating requests? Jayn sometimes
doesn't
like it when my attention is diverted from her by the phone, but sometimes
I
just have to stick my finger in my spare ear, momentarily, when it is a
business call for dh (usually just taking a quick message). If she has
been
playing quietly, I sometimes forget that she may be viewing me as an
audience to her fantasy play and sees the phone as an interruption of our
"conversation". I ask her to please be quiet - I have to say that usually
she subsides to a point. However I rarely make outgoing calls without
first
negotiating with her for some time to do so.

<<<<<if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear
eachother, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a
show, after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as
possible.>>>>

Jayn switches the set off repeatedly - so we have stopped engaging in that
particular battle. Dh goes to watch in the other room. I have just become
resigned to recording everything I hope to view. Sometimes if I put on a
DVD
for her, I can go to the bedroom and watch TV with dh for a while. In
terms
of interrupting our conversations, it is usually because Jayn is after his
attention rather than mine. Could your dh give her some intense playing
attention for a while in the evening when you are most drained?

<<<How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.>>>>

Breathe and try to stay centered. One thing may be to stop expecting
"respect" from her. The idea behind modeling respectful treatment of her
and
the other family members to each other, is that *eventually* she will also
behave that kind way automatically and naturally. She is behaving 4.5 at
the
moment. It will pass. Jayn is already less obnoxious than she was three
months ago.

This is going to sound dumb, but try and get some rest, OK?

Robyn L. Coburn



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Yahoo! Groups Links

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi,

I am glad I am not alone, but not overly happy to hear this feeling lingers
for so long:)

My in laws are both dead and my dh is on the outs with his brother over the
execution of the will, so there is no family of his to visit like that
sadly. My family is all over 3 hours away so no quick visits there either.

As I have said, my dh has really been great lately picking up the slack and
doing more with her and taking her places and he really is trying to help
thankfully.

I will try to arrange his sister to come play with Hannah one day next week
so I can have some time alone upstairs at least, but she is someone that is
only ok on a very occasional basis, as we found out earlier in the year when
we over used her LOL.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

In a message dated 9/15/2004 12:35:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:


To be honest, I feel like I just want to be left alone, for one day just
one
day to just sit and veg and watch TV and play on the computer and not have
to talk to ANYONE unless I want to. Selfish huh? And would that really make
that much of a difference? I don't know.<<<<

Sherri-Lee,

*I* feel that way with two independent boys, 16 and eight! <G>

So *that* is not just being pregnant with a four year old! <BWG> She
whether
you could arrange that. Maybe your husband and daughter could go visit his
mom for the weekend. Ben used to do that (until the tension got too thick).

Now they'll all go camping without me. I get the house to myself, I can eat
what
I want---or not, I have full control over the remote, I can garden, sleep,
play on the 'puter, talk with friends, stare at the
ceiling---whatever----for
two days! Two or three times a year is all I need----but I *do* need it.
And
I ask for it.

Maybe ask? <g>

~Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Robyn Coburn

<<<I am sorry this is SO off topic and just a bunch of whining. Thank you
for listening and thank you for your support,>>>

One of the mothers on-line, a long-time unschooler, has a message taped to
her bathroom mirror:

"It's not the unschooling. It's ........."

She says it helps a lot for her to refocus on the actual problem.

Robyn L. Coburn

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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/15/2004 5:22:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sherri--lee@... writes:

I am glad I am not alone, but not overly happy to hear this feeling lingers
for so long:)<<<<

The feeling doesn't linger. It's just Who You Are. *I* am the kind of person
that needs some alone time. We've talked about this several times over the
years on different lists. Some folks need time with groups of people to
recharge their batteries; some need time to themselves. I'm a "time-to-herself"
kind of gal. You too, maybe.

Maybe there's another mom in your area (LLL maybe?) who could work out a
play date for Hannah while you get some rest.

If you don't ask, no one knows you need help! All of us are willing----but
too far to be of physical assistance! <g>

~Kelly






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

dana tierney

Introverts recharge in alone time. Extroverts recharge with other
people. Just a matter of different strokes. I need quiet time, myself.

Dana


On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:05:21 EDT, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> In a message dated 9/15/2004 5:22:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sherri--lee@... writes:
>
> I am glad I am not alone, but not overly happy to hear this feeling lingers
> for so long:)<<<<
>
> The feeling doesn't linger. It's just Who You Are. *I* am the kind of person
> that needs some alone time. We've talked about this several times over the
> years on different lists. Some folks need time with groups of people to
> recharge their batteries; some need time to themselves. I'm a "time-to-herself"
> kind of gal. You too, maybe.
>
> Maybe there's another mom in your area (LLL maybe?) who could work out a
> play date for Hannah while you get some rest.
>
> If you don't ask, no one knows you need help! All of us are willing----but
> too far to be of physical assistance! <g>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

dana tierney

I think so...

> It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating but
> reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what colour
> of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you know?

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman <sherri-
-lee@s...> wrote:
> I will try to arrange his sister to come play with Hannah one day
next week
> so I can have some time alone upstairs at least, but she is someone
that is
> only ok on a very occasional basis, as we found out earlier in the
year when
> we over used her LOL.

It's tough. If you're not sure your kids are having a good time, it
can be hard to relax and really get something out of being alone. I
used to get stressed because I knew dh was not patient with the kids
or I felt like I should be getting stuff done instead of resting...I
found lots of ways to not feel better when I got some time to
myself!!

I'm getting better about it. I found a good day care provider and the
kids LOVE to go there. But then she got 2 more full time kids so
won't have room for both kids most of the time. Bummer. I had things
to do two days last week so the kids went 2 mornings in a row (for
like 3 hours each day) and I actually could hear myself think...and
it wasn't always about the kids! I had forgotten what it was like. I
did feel refreshed for a bit after that.

Hang in there! I'm dealing with dd who is going through a growth
spurt and whew! She's melting down almost hourly. Getting tons of
food into her helps, I've found. Okay, didn't mean to hijack, just
letting you know you're not alone.

--aj

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi AJ,

No hijacking... I love hearing that I am not alone. It is too easy to get
into talking about all the great things our kid do, which seems to be
opposite to the mainstream way, that I sometimes forget that the people I
admire on my lists aren't always perfect parents:)

I had never thought about a growth spurt causing melt downs but of course it
makes sense. I am stymied about the food thing, because she is so clearly
hungry but simply will not eat unless I completely make her turn things off
and come to the table. It has never been a battle before but all of a sudden
she is so interested in what she wants to do that she doesn't want to stop -
I understand that, but simply she has to eat or she is screaming at me all
the time and I can't take it.

I had hired a woman to come last fall with her daughter who was the same age
as Hannah. They would come and play and I would either be upstairs working
or go out to do something. It worked very well for awhile and then the girls
started to have conflicts and the mom stopped being involved. I would come
in and find her copying recipes out of a magazine I had left out, while the
girls were in the house running around and around the kitchen screaming at
the top of their lungs, until one of them just lost it. Not value for my
dollar. So we stopped last Christmas and it was obvious it had just become
that Hannah was spending too much time with them.

Then this spring when I found out I was pregnant, I asked my SIL (who
doesn't work) if she wanted to come over and spend time with Hannah 3 times
a week for 2 hours each time. They got along great and she made some money.
That lasted for awhile, but then it just became too much again. She is very
rigid and stiff and unimaginative and Hannah would just get sick and tired
of her rigidity and she was screaming at her too much. So we slowed that
down a lot. Now it is just rarely that we use her and although Hannah
resists at the idea, they have fun once she gets here.

So will try to get her in next week and see how that works... Hannah has
agreed in theory so far so that is good. Believe me I have thought about
sticking her in preschool just to get a break, but how can I do that, when I
totally disagree with school and have told her we homeschool for the last
year LOL... I can't be using it as a baby sitter service just because life
is getting tough.

Anyway, thanks for the comments, good to hear from you,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mamaaj2000 [mailto:mamaaj2000@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help

--- In [email protected], Sherri-Lee Pressman <sherri-
-lee@s...> wrote:
> I will try to arrange his sister to come play with Hannah one day
next week
> so I can have some time alone upstairs at least, but she is someone
that is
> only ok on a very occasional basis, as we found out earlier in the
year when
> we over used her LOL.

It's tough. If you're not sure your kids are having a good time, it
can be hard to relax and really get something out of being alone. I
used to get stressed because I knew dh was not patient with the kids
or I felt like I should be getting stuff done instead of resting...I
found lots of ways to not feel better when I got some time to
myself!!

I'm getting better about it. I found a good day care provider and the
kids LOVE to go there. But then she got 2 more full time kids so
won't have room for both kids most of the time. Bummer. I had things
to do two days last week so the kids went 2 mornings in a row (for
like 3 hours each day) and I actually could hear myself think...and
it wasn't always about the kids! I had forgotten what it was like. I
did feel refreshed for a bit after that.

Hang in there! I'm dealing with dd who is going through a growth
spurt and whew! She's melting down almost hourly. Getting tons of
food into her helps, I've found. Okay, didn't mean to hijack, just
letting you know you're not alone.

--aj







Yahoo! Groups Links

J. Stauffer

This is probably going to get me in trouble here but I can't say that I would just sit and swallow everything if someone (anyone, adults included) was continually yelling and screaming at me when I was doing my best to try and help them.

The occassional meltdown or even not so occassional I can do. My 5yo can be one to go off on people over and over again for the slightest provocation so I understand where Sheree is coming from.

I think I would do the things I can think of to help out...offering limited choices to help with decision making, making sure there was cuddle time, trying to listen through the anger....but if it went on and on, I would probably remove myself from the situation.

Example: Dan (5) had gotten to where no matter what anyone did if they weren't reading his mind and knowing just exactly what he wanted done, he would yell at them, throw things, call them names, etc.. I can usually make a joke and get him out of it but he was doing it to the other kids in the family as well. It wasn't fair for the other 5yo to be hit or yelled at because she did something that was perceived by Dan as a slight of some kind.

So I stopped Dan in the beginning of one of his torrents and said "It is ok to be mad or sad. You can come to me and I will hug you and rub your back until you feel better but it is absolutely not ok to scream and yell at people." and I bearhugged him and walked off.

Since then, he comes runnning to me out of the blue a lot and just hugs me for a minute and says he loves me and runs back off to play. He still has meltdowns ever so often but he really is trying to use me as a resource.

Just a thought.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help


Hi Julie,

I have said "what would you like?" because if we don't start with that and
she has something in mind, she gets very angry at us having the nerve to
suggest anything. So that is the first question. If she has nothing in mind
then she says "I don't know" and I start making suggestions. I always tell
her what I am having first, because she often wants that too and then I only
have to make one thing. If it is rejected, then I offer other things to her
as you suggest.

Thanks for the ideas, they confirmed what I was doing in that department was
ok at least:)

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Stauffer [mailto:jnjstau@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<<And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.>>>>

I don't know how you are handling this but open-ended questions can be
overwhelming for young kids, like "what would you like for breakfast?",
particularly kids not used to making those kinds of decisions or that are
currently stressed.

You might try offering her a couple of options and if those don't appeal to
her, perhaps a couple of more options, like "How about oatmeal or cheerios?"

Just a thought.

Julie S.


----- Original Message -----
From: Sherri-Lee Pressman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help


Robyn,

What a fantastic post, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

I *knew* her behaviour was age appropriate, not pleasant but not
surprising
for her age. I just didn't expect it to feel so personal. I guess that is
increased by my pregnancy hormones.

I read your post this morning and it energized me for our day. We had a
much
better day and in fact I managed to have more energy and a more positive
approach. She asked me to get her water, when it was inconvenient for me
and
not her, I just did it. The surprise and pleasure in her voice was
noticeable. Did it make her feel special?

She did not speak in an angry or demanding tone so I didn't have to
ignore
it, but perhaps that was because I wasn't so impatient.

Yes I am overwhelmed and feeling a bit resentful. Thank you for
articulating
it because it helped me to see it. My dh, works very hard and in my
opinion,
doesn't do all he could around here to help with the parenting. I don't
expect him to do housework or anything but he goes in fits and spurts in
his
parenting interests and that does add to my stress. Lately however, he has
been pitching in more without my having to ask and that has helped a lot.
He
spends time with her each morning wrestling and playing and then time with
her again each evening after dinner. This is new and has been very
appreciated. I told him that today and he seemed to appreciate me saying
that and did even more today.

I met with a woman yesterday to come in and help with house stuff after
the
baby comes, but decided we will get her in once a week starting now to do
house cleaning, laundry, making beds etc. So that is a good decision that
I
am sure will help.

It is good to hear the indecisiveness is normal too... still frustrating
but
reassuring. It can really get to me, cause I really don't care what colour
of hair she gives polly pocket when she is playing on the website you
know?
Maybe it is her way of trying to get me involved with what she is doing?

I am breathing... and trying to not expect respect from her... that seems
harder when you are feeling resentful right? Ok... thank you SO much for
your thoughts on this, it really was so helpful to come downstairs to read
this this morning, AND to hear it will pass hopefully fairly soon:)

I was beginning to think that this behaviour was a result of our shift to
unschooling as it was the only big change I could think of that we had
done
recently. And with giving her more choices, she seemed to be less capable
of
dealing with them, almost overwhelmed by them (which still might be the
case
I guess)I was thinking of pulling back on that.

Anyway, thank you again for your help today,

Sherri-Lee
Need safe and natural health products?
http://www.aloeessence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] help

<<<Hannah (4.5) has become the most difficult, uncooperative, unpleasant
child
for me to be around and it seems so specific to me. Maybe she is mad at
me.
mad about the baby she has been looking forward to? About my lack of
energy
in the last month?
Situations: unless I give her exactly what she wants when she wants it she
screams and yells at me "you promised" (even if I didn't), "you have to",
"but I WANNNTTTTT you to/it" etc. Anything I say "no" to is greeted with
screaming and hollering and yelling and the biggest temper tantrums she
has
ever had>>>>>

If you read some of the Child Development books (eg: "Child Behavior from
one til ten" or "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames) from Gessell
Institute
(and don't read the school preparedness chapters because they are
irrelevant, and ignore the Cry it out sleep suggestions obviously) you may
be relieved to learn that they consider much of this type of behavior
typical of 4.5 year olds. Whether their suggestions are of any use to you
would be another matter.

Jayn (4.75) does many, in fact almost all of the same obnoxious behaviors,
but in your case I would guess that they are being exacerbated by your
very
pregnant situation - both in terms of your emotionally vunerable state,
physical energy limitations, and Hannah's possible regressive reaction to
the upcoming baby.

<<<< I can't really say yes to everything. I try to say yes often, but
I just can't and won't say yes to every demand of hers. And that is how
they
are issued these days. demands. not asking: "mommy do this!" "mommy I need
this" "mommy I can't do this" (with the assumption that I will just *know*
what to do to fix it and then if I go and do something it is the wrong
thing
(no matter what I do) and she screams at me for that too.>>>>

Look really hard at the "no's" you are saying. There is a huge difference
between "can't" and "won't".

If you can, absolutely ignore the demanding tone of voice and fulfill the
request cheerfully anyway, which is what I do mostly with Jayn. It does
take
the wind out of the incipient meltdown a lot of the time. Sometimes I
mention in passing that she sounded really demanding or angry to me when
she
spoke, but I never reply in kind to her.

When she has an angry blasting meltdown, I let Jayn's anger just bounce
off
me, like a beach ball you aren't catching - it will get less (or impinge
on
you less). I'm talking about "detachment" from her emotions, NOT ignoring
her or her requests. Just not allowing her frenzy to get me upset, while
still validating emotions back - "you sound very angry/frustrated". She
will
go on and I will say something very neutral like "What a shame." It helps
her go through the meltdown, and restore her own balance.

Sometimes I also remind Jayn to take some deep breaths if she is starting
to
get angry. Sometimes her only relief is still to shriek. One good one and
she is often better.

<<<She is asking me to do so much more for her too (is this also in
reaction
to
the baby coming?) "mommy get me some water" even though she is standing
with
her cup right beside the water tower and I have just sat down at the
opposite end of the room. Am I really supposed to get up and get that for
her? Every 10 minutes there is a new demand more food, more water, more
toys
all something I have to do for her, >>>

There is a lot of overwhelm and resentment coming through in your post -
lot's of emphatic negative words. Are you getting enough help with the day
to day stuff like the housework? Are you getting any support from dh for
your emotional ups and downs as hormones shift? Are you trying to do too
much, when all you want to do is sit and contemplate the new baby? If you
can find a way to transfer responsibility for everything other than Hannah
and your own immediate comfort to someone else (a temporary house cleaning
service? Ordering in dinner? Paying someone to come in and do the laundry?
Home delivery of groceries?) maybe you won't feel so overwhelmed.

<<<<and yet she has developed and complete
inability to making decisions. She wants me to pick her clothes and then
rejects everything I chose. When I ask her to do it. no she can't make a
decision. She will just say "I am hungry" and I am supposed to mind read
and
know what she wants, because she can't decide, but every thing I suggest
is
rejected. When I give up after I run out of suggestions, we have another
melt down and anger at me and her screaming that she can't decide and I
have
to do it for her. Hell we even had a melt down today because she couldn't
decide which toys to bring with us to the grocery store and wanted me to
decide for her. She wants me to do all these things, but if I try to
explain
anything to her about anything, she screams at me "I don't want to hear
you
now".>>>>>

This indecisiveness is also a kind of normal development phase with some
personalities, according to what I have read, although she *is*
communicating clearly and definitively when she says she "doesn't want to
hear you now". Short phrases, not long reasoned explanations, might be the
solution here. As much as you may want her to understand where you are
coming from, emotionally or intellectually, it shouldn't be her
responsibility to have to do so. She may feel your explaining as an
emotional burden.

One of the things I do with Jayn when she is rejecting all the
possibilities
for say a snack, is just let it go, with "well I don't know dear. What do
you think?" or "That's all we have." Then I wait it out. Usually she soon
after comes back with the phrase, "I guess I could have .....". Waiting
(without engaging) for the readiness to decide, with or without the
meltdown
behavior, can seem like an eternity. It really is less time than you
think.


Just because she is screaming that you have to do it for her, doesn't mean
you actually do have to decide for her. She really won't choose to starve.

<<<If I go on the phone she starts making noise, after being quiet for
hours,>>>>

Are you interacting with her when she is quietly playing, or only in
response to her getting loud or initiating requests? Jayn sometimes
doesn't
like it when my attention is diverted from her by the phone, but sometimes
I
just have to stick my finger in my spare ear, momentarily, when it is a
business call for dh (usually just taking a quick message). If she has
been
playing quietly, I sometimes forget that she may be viewing me as an
audience to her fantasy play and sees the phone as an interruption of our
"conversation". I ask her to please be quiet - I have to say that usually
she subsides to a point. However I rarely make outgoing calls without
first
negotiating with her for some time to do so.

<<<<<if I start to talk to my dh, she starts to sing loud so we can't hear
eachother, or talking or screaming about something. If I want to watch a
show, after hours of her watching her shows, she all of a sudden starts
talking and talking out loud about everything possible as loud as
possible.>>>>

Jayn switches the set off repeatedly - so we have stopped engaging in that
particular battle. Dh goes to watch in the other room. I have just become
resigned to recording everything I hope to view. Sometimes if I put on a
DVD
for her, I can go to the bedroom and watch TV with dh for a while. In
terms
of interrupting our conversations, it is usually because Jayn is after his
attention rather than mine. Could your dh give her some intense playing
attention for a while in the evening when you are most drained?

<<<How do I handle this and respect her and me.
Cause I don't feel very respected or respectful right now.>>>>

Breathe and try to stay centered. One thing may be to stop expecting
"respect" from her. The idea behind modeling respectful treatment of her
and
the other family members to each other, is that *eventually* she will also
behave that kind way automatically and naturally. She is behaving 4.5 at
the
moment. It will pass. Jayn is already less obnoxious than she was three
months ago.

This is going to sound dumb, but try and get some rest, OK?

Robyn L. Coburn



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J. Stauffer

<<<<Introverts recharge in alone time. Extroverts recharge with other
people.>>>>

LOL. I am very much an extrovert but I tend to find that I need time alone to get re-centered. Otherwise, I find things start to spin out of control.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: dana tierney
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help


Introverts recharge in alone time. Extroverts recharge with other
people. Just a matter of different strokes. I need quiet time, myself.

Dana


On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:05:21 EDT, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> In a message dated 9/15/2004 5:22:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sherri--lee@... writes:
>
> I am glad I am not alone, but not overly happy to hear this feeling lingers
> for so long:)<<<<
>
> The feeling doesn't linger. It's just Who You Are. *I* am the kind of person
> that needs some alone time. We've talked about this several times over the
> years on different lists. Some folks need time with groups of people to
> recharge their batteries; some need time to themselves. I'm a "time-to-herself"
> kind of gal. You too, maybe.
>
> Maybe there's another mom in your area (LLL maybe?) who could work out a
> play date for Hannah while you get some rest.
>
> If you don't ask, no one knows you need help! All of us are willing----but
> too far to be of physical assistance! <g>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@d...> wrote:
> This is probably going to get me in trouble here but I can't say
>that I would just sit and swallow everything if someone (anyone,
>adults included) was continually yelling and screaming at me when I
>was doing my best to try and help them.

It depends on the circumstances. With dd right now, or when ds went
through a growth spurt earlier in the year, you can tell something is
wrong. They don't usually get so worked up over such little things. I
know it's not a personality trait and that it will not last forever.
Okay, sometimes that doesn't help, but...

That's different than the habit ds has of getting very worked up over
innocent things people say to him. Yes, I acknowledge his sensitivity
to words, but it's not okay for him to continue to yell at people
when he gets upset.

> So I stopped Dan in the beginning of one of his torrents and
>said "It is ok to be mad or sad. You can come to me and I will hug
>you and rub your back until you feel better but it is absolutely not
>ok to scream and yell at people." and I bearhugged him and walked
>off.

I'm still struggling mightily to find something to help. The
situation is much better at home because we are all more gentle in
general than we used to be. Saying anything to Mikey (almost 4) once
he's upset is likely to make things worse. So when we are among other
people, with all their negative comments and near complete lack of
caring about upseting a 3-4 yr old, he gets upset a lot. I sympathize
with him, but I also know I can't change the world for him.

Hmmm. I've had some success talking about how babies/toddlers are
likely to push down block towers and rip up track and how two year
olds sometimes hit and don't wait their turn and his expectations are
more realistic now so he doesn't get as upset. Maybe I need to talk
more about how he felt when so and so said "you laugh like a girl"
and an adult asked "do you go to school?" and talk about why people
say these things etc. Preparing him usually helps, but I think I got
off track and was only talking about how he should and shouldn't
respond...

Thanks Julie, for making me think outloud!

--aj

waldorfmama

Sherri, I haven't read any responses by others yet but I wanted to say that it sounds like
your daughter's and your connection is broken right now. I went through it when I was
pregnant too. I was so exhausted. Yes, I was with her 24/7 but NEVER had time to myself
so when I was with her I wasn't truly "with" her. I was overwhelemd and needing some
head space. It is MUCH easier to connect with Ella (also 4.5) when I have taken care of
myself too.

It will get easier. I think working on rebuilding your connection to each other would help a
lot! There is a book called "I Love You Rituals" by Becky Bailey which has some good ideas
for reconnecting with your kids.

Hang in there!
:)
Jessie