Unliving?
sandy lubert
As I dip my toe into the world of unschooling, I am finding the
water is sometimes very chilly! A friend said to me this
morning, "Well I tried to explain what you're doing to my husband.
He said that unschooling prepares kids for unliving..."
Discouraging, I know, but I think it strikes right to the heart of
most mainstreamers' biggest fear; that is, that kids will have
trouble when they want to "go back to the REAL world". I am so glad
I went to the conference because I just tell them about Valerie's
daughter and her incredible success, Phd, etc. Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick. Comments?
Sandy
water is sometimes very chilly! A friend said to me this
morning, "Well I tried to explain what you're doing to my husband.
He said that unschooling prepares kids for unliving..."
Discouraging, I know, but I think it strikes right to the heart of
most mainstreamers' biggest fear; that is, that kids will have
trouble when they want to "go back to the REAL world". I am so glad
I went to the conference because I just tell them about Valerie's
daughter and her incredible success, Phd, etc. Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick. Comments?
Sandy
TreeGoddess
On Sep 8, 2004, at 11:00 AM, sandy lubert wrote:
jealousy to some extent. "Hey, man, I suffered through (number of)
years of school and you should have to also!" It's "not fair" that you
and your children are doing what you want when you want -- and having
FUN to boot! <stomping and huffing>
Just an idea I've got . . . ;)
-Tracy-
> [A friend said to me this morning, "Well I tried to explainI often wonder if the negative reaction from many people is simply
> what you're doing to my husband. He said that unschooling
> prepares kids for unliving..." ]
jealousy to some extent. "Hey, man, I suffered through (number of)
years of school and you should have to also!" It's "not fair" that you
and your children are doing what you want when you want -- and having
FUN to boot! <stomping and huffing>
Just an idea I've got . . . ;)
-Tracy-
Deb Lewis
***As I dip my toe into the world of unschooling, I am finding the water
is sometimes very chilly!***
It can be chilly in the "outside" pool, where the mainstreamers swim but
the inside pool (of unschoolers) is big and deep and warm.<g>
***He said that unschooling prepares kids for unliving..." ***
He's saying life is just like school. It's not. School is compulsory,
kids don't have a choice about being there. Jobs are not compulsory.
You can choose the kind of work you want to do. If school is terrible,
depressing, draining, emotionally hurtful, kids can't leave. If a job is
any of those things we can either ask for a raise to make it worth our
while to stay, or we can go. If kids are being hurt or tormented by
someone at school adults tell them "everyone goes through it", or "just
try to stay away from him". If someone is tormenting us at work we can
quit, if they're hurting us we can have them arrested.
***kids will have trouble when they want to "go back to the REAL world".
***
No part of my life since leaving school has been like Algebra class, or
Geography class. Not once. <G>
School isn't "the real world". The real world is this one my son is in
every day because he never left it to go to school. The real world is
where he shops for food at the grocery store, chooses movies at the video
store, talks to the vet when the cat's getting a shot, holds the
Cockatiel at the flower shop when we stop to get something to cheer up a
friend. The real world is the world he's out in hiking and climbing and
bird watching and fossil hunting. In his real world he has a job and
money to spend and places to go and things to do and all kinds of people
to talk with.
Some people really believe learning to suffer is good and prepares you
for all the suffering in life.
I think being happy is good and our best hope for always being able to
find happiness.
Deb L
-
is sometimes very chilly!***
It can be chilly in the "outside" pool, where the mainstreamers swim but
the inside pool (of unschoolers) is big and deep and warm.<g>
***He said that unschooling prepares kids for unliving..." ***
He's saying life is just like school. It's not. School is compulsory,
kids don't have a choice about being there. Jobs are not compulsory.
You can choose the kind of work you want to do. If school is terrible,
depressing, draining, emotionally hurtful, kids can't leave. If a job is
any of those things we can either ask for a raise to make it worth our
while to stay, or we can go. If kids are being hurt or tormented by
someone at school adults tell them "everyone goes through it", or "just
try to stay away from him". If someone is tormenting us at work we can
quit, if they're hurting us we can have them arrested.
***kids will have trouble when they want to "go back to the REAL world".
***
No part of my life since leaving school has been like Algebra class, or
Geography class. Not once. <G>
School isn't "the real world". The real world is this one my son is in
every day because he never left it to go to school. The real world is
where he shops for food at the grocery store, chooses movies at the video
store, talks to the vet when the cat's getting a shot, holds the
Cockatiel at the flower shop when we stop to get something to cheer up a
friend. The real world is the world he's out in hiking and climbing and
bird watching and fossil hunting. In his real world he has a job and
money to spend and places to go and things to do and all kinds of people
to talk with.
Some people really believe learning to suffer is good and prepares you
for all the suffering in life.
I think being happy is good and our best hope for always being able to
find happiness.
Deb L
-
jesika hare
hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks
__________________________________
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advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks
__________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jesika2starr@... writes:
hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks <<<<
Show him how much more fun it is to tickle?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jesika2starr@... writes:
hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks <<<<
Show him how much more fun it is to tickle?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
I'd just gently take his hand and just say "Gentle, gentle" while gently
stroking my skin with his hand so that he knows what "gentle" means.
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
stroking my skin with his hand so that he knows what "gentle" means.
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jesika2starr@... writes:
hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks <<<<
Show him how much more fun it is to tickle?
~Kelly
I agree. We also kissed hitting hands or said "ouch" in a gentle way.
Holding the hand and distracting them is good, too. I try to give words to it
sometimes, like "oh, it seems like you are angry because I did....".
Every one year old I know does this, if it makes you feel better. Most
people want to "fix" this behavior, but in my experience "what you resist
persists" and he'll grow out of it (not necessarily overnight!).
By the way, from his perspective, it is funny to make mommy mad and what a
powerful feeling for someone with such limited power! Around here we call it
drunk with power.
My girlfriend's one year old is biting her toes...ouch!
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jesika2starr@... writes:
hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks <<<<
Show him how much more fun it is to tickle?
~Kelly
I agree. We also kissed hitting hands or said "ouch" in a gentle way.
Holding the hand and distracting them is good, too. I try to give words to it
sometimes, like "oh, it seems like you are angry because I did....".
Every one year old I know does this, if it makes you feel better. Most
people want to "fix" this behavior, but in my experience "what you resist
persists" and he'll grow out of it (not necessarily overnight!).
By the way, from his perspective, it is funny to make mommy mad and what a
powerful feeling for someone with such limited power! Around here we call it
drunk with power.
My girlfriend's one year old is biting her toes...ouch!
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"***kids will have trouble when they want to "go back to the REAL
world".***
Hmmmm...my kids have always been part of the REAL world. They've
never been locked up in some stuffy classroom learning about the
"real world" from a book, instead they're IN the world learning.
They aren't shut away from other ages for most of the day, so
they're learning from a variety of people.
I would seriously question your friends dh about how he expects his
kids to do ok when they drop into the "real world" from the bizarre,
unnatural world of school:
How are they going to deal with a variety of ages in the work place
when they have been shut up with mostly age peers all day?
How are they going to know how to do math in their heads when
they've done it on paper for so many years?
How will they multiply larger numbers when they've been forced to
memorized up to 12x over and over?
How will they be able to creatively problem solve when they've been
taught there's one right way to do everything?
How will they be in touch with their passions and interests when
they've been told to ignore them over and over?
How will they know when it's ok to say NO to someone when they've
been taught to obey authority for so many years?
How will they be prepared for technology when they use so little of
it in the classroom (no video games!!)?
How will they have the confidence to be themselves after years of
labeling, categorizing and comparing them to each other?
I worry about these schooled kids. Your friend ought to worry about
that rather than your free thinking, joyful learners that are going
to pounce on life and never look back.:)
Ren
world".***
Hmmmm...my kids have always been part of the REAL world. They've
never been locked up in some stuffy classroom learning about the
"real world" from a book, instead they're IN the world learning.
They aren't shut away from other ages for most of the day, so
they're learning from a variety of people.
I would seriously question your friends dh about how he expects his
kids to do ok when they drop into the "real world" from the bizarre,
unnatural world of school:
How are they going to deal with a variety of ages in the work place
when they have been shut up with mostly age peers all day?
How are they going to know how to do math in their heads when
they've done it on paper for so many years?
How will they multiply larger numbers when they've been forced to
memorized up to 12x over and over?
How will they be able to creatively problem solve when they've been
taught there's one right way to do everything?
How will they be in touch with their passions and interests when
they've been told to ignore them over and over?
How will they know when it's ok to say NO to someone when they've
been taught to obey authority for so many years?
How will they be prepared for technology when they use so little of
it in the classroom (no video games!!)?
How will they have the confidence to be themselves after years of
labeling, categorizing and comparing them to each other?
I worry about these schooled kids. Your friend ought to worry about
that rather than your free thinking, joyful learners that are going
to pounce on life and never look back.:)
Ren
sandy lubert
You guys are all so great (or as my charlie says, "awesome,
possum"!) I keep thinking, "I would so love to hang out with these
people!" Maybe at next year's conference? I was too shy this time!
Thanks for all your input about the "unliving" comment. Just wanted
to add this..the guy who said it? He wants to be a concert pianist,
but he sells generators. Doesn't even own a piano. So, there ya go...
Sandy
possum"!) I keep thinking, "I would so love to hang out with these
people!" Maybe at next year's conference? I was too shy this time!
Thanks for all your input about the "unliving" comment. Just wanted
to add this..the guy who said it? He wants to be a concert pianist,
but he sells generators. Doesn't even own a piano. So, there ya go...
Sandy
dana tierney
This is what I think is going on too. He is getting used to the idea
that what he does can affect powerful mommy. I'd tell him it hurts
and try one of the tactics described above :)
Dana
that what he does can affect powerful mommy. I'd tell him it hurts
and try one of the tactics described above :)
Dana
> By the way, from his perspective, it is funny to make mommy mad and what a
> powerful feeling for someone with such limited power! Around here we call it
> drunk with power.
Jon and Rue Kream
>>He said that unschooling prepares kids for unliving..**My kids aren't in preparation for anything. They're living their lives
right now.
School kids spend their days in an artificial environment (usually inside
one building) with the same group of people all the time, doing what they
are told to do. Unschooled kids interact with a huge variety of people in
different situations and locations, and choose for themselves how they want
to spend their time. It seems pretty obvious to me which kids are
'unliving'. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help?***
Is it happening because he frustrated and if so, why? What can you do to
prevent the frustration. What other physical thing can he do that will
expend some energy, can he run in the yard, can he splash in the bathtub?
It will take time. Be gentle, don't get mad, hold his little hand and
say something sweet about being loving to each other.
I used to tell Dylan we weren't the hitting family we were the
lovey-dovey family. But then you can't swat at the dog or playfully hit
your partner either. When he sees people swat or hit each other on TV it
would help to say something like "oh, she hit him, that's not nice".
Be patient. He's little. Lot's of big people still don't know how to be
gentle with each other. If you're consistently gentle with him, he will
want to be that way with you, too.
Also, I think we assume they understand that hitting is offensive or
hurtful and I don't think they're intending that. They can thump on
furniture and toys and the bed and other things around the house and I
think it takes a lot of experimentation before they understand thumping
on people and critters is hurtful. It feels kind of good to hit things,
soft things like the bed and firm things like the coffee table - it's
kind of tingly and different and interesting. So if you can look at
hitting as one of the many things he's learning about and not like he's
deliberately being mean to you, that might help you be more patient with
him.
Deb L
just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
but he just hits me in the face again.any help?***
Is it happening because he frustrated and if so, why? What can you do to
prevent the frustration. What other physical thing can he do that will
expend some energy, can he run in the yard, can he splash in the bathtub?
It will take time. Be gentle, don't get mad, hold his little hand and
say something sweet about being loving to each other.
I used to tell Dylan we weren't the hitting family we were the
lovey-dovey family. But then you can't swat at the dog or playfully hit
your partner either. When he sees people swat or hit each other on TV it
would help to say something like "oh, she hit him, that's not nice".
Be patient. He's little. Lot's of big people still don't know how to be
gentle with each other. If you're consistently gentle with him, he will
want to be that way with you, too.
Also, I think we assume they understand that hitting is offensive or
hurtful and I don't think they're intending that. They can thump on
furniture and toys and the bed and other things around the house and I
think it takes a lot of experimentation before they understand thumping
on people and critters is hurtful. It feels kind of good to hit things,
soft things like the bed and firm things like the coffee table - it's
kind of tingly and different and interesting. So if you can look at
hitting as one of the many things he's learning about and not like he's
deliberately being mean to you, that might help you be more patient with
him.
Deb L
Beth Fleming
--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
I worry about these schooled kids. Your friend ought
You are so right on target!! I was an inner-city PS
teacher for ten years...and a good one! But now that
we are learning at home with my 8yo, 5yo, and 11mo, I
see that all of those things that you say are true.
My daughter was in ps for 2 years and she is still
de-schooling (not to mention me!)...I can't imagine
what 12 years could do to the spirit of a child....
Thanks for your posts...they have been very helpful
and encouraging as we begin our unschooling journey ;)
Peace,
Beth in MA
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I worry about these schooled kids. Your friend ought
> to worry aboutDear Ren,
> that rather than your free thinking, joyful learners
> that are going
> to pounce on life and never look back.:)
>
> Ren
>
You are so right on target!! I was an inner-city PS
teacher for ten years...and a good one! But now that
we are learning at home with my 8yo, 5yo, and 11mo, I
see that all of those things that you say are true.
My daughter was in ps for 2 years and she is still
de-schooling (not to mention me!)...I can't imagine
what 12 years could do to the spirit of a child....
Thanks for your posts...they have been very helpful
and encouraging as we begin our unschooling journey ;)
Peace,
Beth in MA
>__________________________________
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Robyn Coburn
<<<I am so glad
I went to the conference because I just tell them about Valerie's
daughter and her incredible success, Phd, etc. Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick. Comments?>>>
Any time an Unschooler, or homeschooler for that matter (remember that
family where all the boys got scholarships to Harvard) have some kind of
academic "success" measured in schoolish terms (Oh yeah - spelling bees),
then the story is grabbed like a talisman. These stories are great to get
doubting family or friends off your back, especially people who don't
*really* want to learn how it works, but feel obliged to share their
uninformed opinions anyway.
However on this Unschooling list, I think it is important for the sake of
newbies to reiterate the idea that success for Unschoolers is not defined in
terms of "getting into college" or "getting good grades" - or to set up any
expectation that you start unschooling in your home and your child will
spontaneously start writing book reports, dividing their day into work on
certain subjects, and doing an hour of math drill college prep on a daily
basis. This *might* happen, but it is not the goal of Unschooling.
If parents are constantly focusing on the future, and examining everything
for signs indicating incipient academia, sometimes the wonders of the
present are being overlooked. Also I think it is a mistake to assume that
the possibly temporary interest of a youngster will necessarily become their
life's vocation. It seems silly to want to remind people of this, but
recently one of the school-at-homers in my local support group mentioned
that her son expressed an interest in Anthropology and Archeology and she
was detailing her breathless seeming search for colleges that accept h/s'ers
and was worried about tailoring his curriculum to the college entrance exams
for this area. The boy is eight.
According to Valerie's book, Laurie chose an academic life for her own
reasons, not because it was socially expected, she was unmotivated in her
life, or she perceived it as her only option. I suspect that most
Unschoolers attending college do so for purposes of furthering their passion
or career, and for community of interest (finding like-minded people).
Probably there is curiosity too.
Success for Unschoolers is often defined in terms of joyous family life and
close, trusting relationships within the family. When Unschooling is working
the children are seen to be authentically engaging in their own interests,
and with any luck so are the parents.
One of the facets of this seems to be a greater respect for privacy. For
example children are not "required" to share the stories they write with
their parents or any one else who might want to read them, although they
often choose to do so. Compare this to the schoolish phenomenon of a teacher
intercepting a passed note and reading it out to the class, or setting the
assignment of keeping a journal. :/
What I'm trying so fuzzily to get at is the idea that the success of
Unschoolers can be greatest in private arenas. We members of our on-line
forums where we share daily successes and challenges are few in number
compared to greater society. It is possible that many of our children will
end up receiving public accolades for successes in their chosen fields. They
will be taking the habit of confidently enjoying their activities with them
into their professional lives. But maybe they will just continue to quietly
live adult lives as wellsprings of joy enriching only their immediate family
and acquaintances. Which ain't too bad either.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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I went to the conference because I just tell them about Valerie's
daughter and her incredible success, Phd, etc. Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick. Comments?>>>
Any time an Unschooler, or homeschooler for that matter (remember that
family where all the boys got scholarships to Harvard) have some kind of
academic "success" measured in schoolish terms (Oh yeah - spelling bees),
then the story is grabbed like a talisman. These stories are great to get
doubting family or friends off your back, especially people who don't
*really* want to learn how it works, but feel obliged to share their
uninformed opinions anyway.
However on this Unschooling list, I think it is important for the sake of
newbies to reiterate the idea that success for Unschoolers is not defined in
terms of "getting into college" or "getting good grades" - or to set up any
expectation that you start unschooling in your home and your child will
spontaneously start writing book reports, dividing their day into work on
certain subjects, and doing an hour of math drill college prep on a daily
basis. This *might* happen, but it is not the goal of Unschooling.
If parents are constantly focusing on the future, and examining everything
for signs indicating incipient academia, sometimes the wonders of the
present are being overlooked. Also I think it is a mistake to assume that
the possibly temporary interest of a youngster will necessarily become their
life's vocation. It seems silly to want to remind people of this, but
recently one of the school-at-homers in my local support group mentioned
that her son expressed an interest in Anthropology and Archeology and she
was detailing her breathless seeming search for colleges that accept h/s'ers
and was worried about tailoring his curriculum to the college entrance exams
for this area. The boy is eight.
According to Valerie's book, Laurie chose an academic life for her own
reasons, not because it was socially expected, she was unmotivated in her
life, or she perceived it as her only option. I suspect that most
Unschoolers attending college do so for purposes of furthering their passion
or career, and for community of interest (finding like-minded people).
Probably there is curiosity too.
Success for Unschoolers is often defined in terms of joyous family life and
close, trusting relationships within the family. When Unschooling is working
the children are seen to be authentically engaging in their own interests,
and with any luck so are the parents.
One of the facets of this seems to be a greater respect for privacy. For
example children are not "required" to share the stories they write with
their parents or any one else who might want to read them, although they
often choose to do so. Compare this to the schoolish phenomenon of a teacher
intercepting a passed note and reading it out to the class, or setting the
assignment of keeping a journal. :/
What I'm trying so fuzzily to get at is the idea that the success of
Unschoolers can be greatest in private arenas. We members of our on-line
forums where we share daily successes and challenges are few in number
compared to greater society. It is possible that many of our children will
end up receiving public accolades for successes in their chosen fields. They
will be taking the habit of confidently enjoying their activities with them
into their professional lives. But maybe they will just continue to quietly
live adult lives as wellsprings of joy enriching only their immediate family
and acquaintances. Which ain't too bad either.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 9/3/2004
Ulrike Haupt
Hi
they want is to get into balance again. Being in balance is knowing you are
OK no matter what.
How about a hug and an "I love you" and an "It's ok to feel grumpy now." And
anything to soothe them back into balance?
Blessed be
Ulrike
> hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need someWhen a person, no matter what age, gets off their balance the ONLY thing
> advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
> started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
> i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
> not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
> and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
> to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
> just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
> but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks
they want is to get into balance again. Being in balance is knowing you are
OK no matter what.
How about a hug and an "I love you" and an "It's ok to feel grumpy now." And
anything to soothe them back into balance?
Blessed be
Ulrike
Ren
"If parents are constantly focusing on the future, and examining everything
for signs indicating incipient academia, sometimes the wonders of the
present are being overlooked. "
YES!
Thanks for that entire post Robyn.
Sometimes I cringe when I hear of homeschoolers winning some big award, or how great they do on tests. Why do homeschoolers (of any kind?) have to be BRILLIANT in order for people to accept it as valid? Why can't these children be "average" (I hate that word, but for lack of anything better, I'll use it), just be who they are today, without all these expectations of what society envisions as success?
ARGH.
Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves and family, and enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
for signs indicating incipient academia, sometimes the wonders of the
present are being overlooked. "
YES!
Thanks for that entire post Robyn.
Sometimes I cringe when I hear of homeschoolers winning some big award, or how great they do on tests. Why do homeschoolers (of any kind?) have to be BRILLIANT in order for people to accept it as valid? Why can't these children be "average" (I hate that word, but for lack of anything better, I'll use it), just be who they are today, without all these expectations of what society envisions as success?
ARGH.
Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves and family, and enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
Daniel MacIntyre
any minority has to outperform the majority to be accepted as being as
good - this can be seen simply by looking historically at women in the
workplace.
Daniel
good - this can be seen simply by looking historically at women in the
workplace.
Daniel
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:40:00 GMT, Ren <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "If parents are constantly focusing on the future, and examining everything
> for signs indicating incipient academia, sometimes the wonders of the
> present are being overlooked. "
>
> YES!
> Thanks for that entire post Robyn.
> Sometimes I cringe when I hear of homeschoolers winning some big award, or how great they do on tests. Why do homeschoolers (of any kind?) have to be BRILLIANT in order for people to accept it as valid? Why can't these children be "average" (I hate that word, but for lack of anything better, I'll use it), just be who they are today, without all these expectations of what society envisions as success?
> ARGH.
> Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves and family, and enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
>
> Ren
>
> Learn about unschooling at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
sandy lubert
Yeah, I think I get it Robyn (despite my newbie status). That's why
I wrote <<Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick.>> I was sooo frustrated at
having to justify our choice to people. The "not necessary" was in
reference to the extrinsic recognition. Thanks for your insights.
Sandy
PS Were you at the conference and do you have an English accent?
I wrote <<Not necessary, I
know, but shuts 'em up pretty quick.>> I was sooo frustrated at
having to justify our choice to people. The "not necessary" was in
reference to the extrinsic recognition. Thanks for your insights.
Sandy
PS Were you at the conference and do you have an English accent?
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/9/2004 10:45:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves and family, and
enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
Ren and Robin, I loved your posts! and I agree but I also understand the
original poster's need to have some examples of "traditionally" successful
unschoolers to share with some people.
My grandparents are wonderful, sweet people but if I were to say "my kids
are happy and connected to themselves and that's enough" they would immediately
think CULT!!! LOL! They live far away, we rarely see them and it raises
their comfort level to tell them lots of wonderful things that I know to be
true about unschooling and then say that I know of kids with PhD's and go to
Harvard. Harvard they get, and they quit worrying. I don't feel the need to
convert them. Homeschooling is hard enough for them to understand.
With people who I might actually have a small chance of opening their minds
a bit, I focus much more on joyful living and not needing to succeed in the
eyes of society to be a successful person.
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves and family, and
enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
Ren and Robin, I loved your posts! and I agree but I also understand the
original poster's need to have some examples of "traditionally" successful
unschoolers to share with some people.
My grandparents are wonderful, sweet people but if I were to say "my kids
are happy and connected to themselves and that's enough" they would immediately
think CULT!!! LOL! They live far away, we rarely see them and it raises
their comfort level to tell them lots of wonderful things that I know to be
true about unschooling and then say that I know of kids with PhD's and go to
Harvard. Harvard they get, and they quit worrying. I don't feel the need to
convert them. Homeschooling is hard enough for them to understand.
With people who I might actually have a small chance of opening their minds
a bit, I focus much more on joyful living and not needing to succeed in the
eyes of society to be a successful person.
Leslie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
In addition to what other people suggested, we sometimes redirect
into giving high fives.
--aj
--- In [email protected], jesika hare
<jesika2starr@y...> wrote:
into giving high fives.
--aj
--- In [email protected], jesika hare
<jesika2starr@y...> wrote:
> hi yall~ this is somewhat off topic, but i need some
> advice pronto. my boy who is almost 1 year old, has
> started hitting/ slapping when he gets mad or sleepy.
> i dont know what to do. i say (or yell"no")but thats
> not how i want to act. and besides he thinks its funny
> and laughs. i know hes testing me, but i dont know how
> to handle it. i know i shouldnt swat his hand b/c its
> just hitting back. i try to tell him to touch softly ,
> but he just hits me in the face again.any help? thanks
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Robyn Coburn
<<< Were you at the conference and do you have an English accent?>>>
Yes, & my accent is officially designated "Educated Australian". I get
broader when I am around other Aussies.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Yes, & my accent is officially designated "Educated Australian". I get
broader when I am around other Aussies.
Robyn L. Coburn
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mamaaj2000
Right. It's like beginning and advanced homeschooling explanations.
At the moment, it's darn nice that Mikey's verbal and social skills
are frightenly good, because it makes it easy for people who don't
know anything about homeschooling to see that I haven't ruined him
yet by keeping him out of preschool. That's good for neighbors and
some family for now. Other people, who can handle the concept of
homeschooling (including the fact that they aren't all like the
Smiths down the street who never come out of their house), might hear
about unschooling from me and not testing, the bizzare idea of
helping kids to be happy, etc. if they seem interested.
--aj
At the moment, it's darn nice that Mikey's verbal and social skills
are frightenly good, because it makes it easy for people who don't
know anything about homeschooling to see that I haven't ruined him
yet by keeping him out of preschool. That's good for neighbors and
some family for now. Other people, who can handle the concept of
homeschooling (including the fact that they aren't all like the
Smiths down the street who never come out of their house), might hear
about unschooling from me and not testing, the bizzare idea of
helping kids to be happy, etc. if they seem interested.
--aj
--- In [email protected], Leslie530@a... wrote:
> Ren and Robin, I loved your posts! and I agree but I also
understand the
> original poster's need to have some examples of "traditionally"
successful
> unschoolers to share with some people.
>
> My grandparents are wonderful, sweet people but if I were to
say "my kids
> are happy and connected to themselves and that's enough" they would
immediately
> think CULT!!! LOL! They live far away, we rarely see them and it
raises
> their comfort level to tell them lots of wonderful things that I
know to be
> true about unschooling and then say that I know of kids with PhD's
and go to
> Harvard. Harvard they get, and they quit worrying. I don't feel
the need to
> convert them. Homeschooling is hard enough for them to understand.
>
> With people who I might actually have a small chance of opening
their minds
> a bit, I focus much more on joyful living and not needing to
succeed in the
> eyes of society to be a successful person.
>
> Leslie
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/9/2004 4:40:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
my accent is officially designated "Educated Australian". <<<
As opposed to what? "Southern Australian"? <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
my accent is officially designated "Educated Australian". <<<
As opposed to what? "Southern Australian"? <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<my accent is officially designated "Educated Australian". <<<
As opposed to what? "Southern Australian"? <BWG>>>>
That's a good question. I think it was to contrast with working class or
broad rural accents also called "strine" (think "Crocodile Dundee"). Pretty
stupid really. I remember erudite Prime Ministers whose accents were so
broad they would have needed subtitles to be understood here, and posh
sounding socialites who were dingbats.
Robyn L. Coburn
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As opposed to what? "Southern Australian"? <BWG>>>>
That's a good question. I think it was to contrast with working class or
broad rural accents also called "strine" (think "Crocodile Dundee"). Pretty
stupid really. I remember erudite Prime Ministers whose accents were so
broad they would have needed subtitles to be understood here, and posh
sounding socialites who were dingbats.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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[email protected]
Robyn wrote:
<<<<< Yes, & my accent is officially designated "Educated
Australian". I get broader when I am around other Aussies. >>>>>
OK. Now I am REALLY looking forward to Pensacola so I can encourage
Robyn get broad!
OOOHHH - maybe I could try my "Aussie accent" to help the
process
along?
Would a drink or two help the broadness appear faster????
Mercedes
whose hoping Robyn won't forget that cute hat she was wearing around
the hotel one night - Dutch, was it?
<<<<< Yes, & my accent is officially designated "Educated
Australian". I get broader when I am around other Aussies. >>>>>
OK. Now I am REALLY looking forward to Pensacola so I can encourage
Robyn get broad!
OOOHHH - maybe I could try my "Aussie accent" to help the
process
along?
Would a drink or two help the broadness appear faster????
Mercedes
whose hoping Robyn won't forget that cute hat she was wearing around
the hotel one night - Dutch, was it?
Robyn Coburn
<<<<Would a drink or two help the broadness appear faster????>>>
No - in my case I would just get stupid(er). I haven't had a drink for 8 1/2
years.
<<<hoping Robyn won't forget that cute hat she was wearing around
the hotel one night - Dutch, was it?>>>>
Well now that little hat has a story behind it. Jayn designed and we made
that hat together a while ago. She sewed the little doo-dad on the side and
I sewed on the pearls under her instructions. Then she cut the "ruffles"
(slits) all around. She was so proud, so I had to wear it. I'm afraid it
turned out to be a bit distracting in Anne's keynote-redux. Sorry about
that.
Robyn L. Coburn
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No - in my case I would just get stupid(er). I haven't had a drink for 8 1/2
years.
<<<hoping Robyn won't forget that cute hat she was wearing around
the hotel one night - Dutch, was it?>>>>
Well now that little hat has a story behind it. Jayn designed and we made
that hat together a while ago. She sewed the little doo-dad on the side and
I sewed on the pearls under her instructions. Then she cut the "ruffles"
(slits) all around. She was so proud, so I had to wear it. I'm afraid it
turned out to be a bit distracting in Anne's keynote-redux. Sorry about
that.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Valerie
> According to Valerie's book, Laurie chose an academic life for herown reasons, not because it was socially expected, she was
unmotivated in her life, or she perceived it as her only option. I
suspect that most Unschoolers attending college do so for purposes
of furthering their passion or career, and for community of interest
(finding like-minded people). Probably there is curiosity too.
>***** lol, thank you Robyn. I started thinking about this very thing
> Robyn L. Coburn
and found myself chanting quietly, "Please, Robyn. Say it for me."
Thank you for hearing me. <g>
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
Valerie
> Pet peeve of mine. If they're happy, connected to themselves andfamily, and enjoy whatever they're doing, that's enough for me.
>*****Last weekend when Laurie first started telling me (in tears)
> Ren
about how difficult grad school is, I said, "Well, you know you can
always walk away from it if you decide it's not what you want. You
decided to get a PhD because YOU wanted it, not because you feel
others want you to get it. If you start feeling that you don't want
it anymore, why keep working for it?" She thanked me for reminding
her about why she's there. She told me today on the phone that she's
remembering better each day that learning is a joy in her life and
she refuses to turn each assignment into a battle. She said (with
confidence) "I'll give it the old college try for at least a
semester, then reexamine what I'm getting from it all."
If she's not happy with her choice, I'm going to be the LAST person
to suggest she stick it out. I quit quite a few things in my life,
and everytime someone scorned my decision, it took me even longer to
find what I wanted to try next.
Having said all of that, if she does quit, I'd like some volunteers
to help me tar and feather her father and my parents. :-|
love, Valerie
Robyn Coburn
<<<Having said all of that, if she does quit, I'd like some volunteers
to help me tar and feather her father and my parents. :-|>>>>
Oh that's easy. For them she's not "quitting", she's taking a "sabbatical".
Academia lingo too.
Robyn L. Coburn
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to help me tar and feather her father and my parents. :-|>>>>
Oh that's easy. For them she's not "quitting", she's taking a "sabbatical".
Academia lingo too.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/10/2004 9:06:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
valerie@... writes:
she will be just fine,, i am finding with my younglins and '''going against
the grain''',of not putting them in public school,,,that as they believe more
in their selves,,,they are more at peace in new situations...
bless you ,and your trail blazing in the 80's..i wish i had the ,,,pardon the
wording,,,but the balls to have dont this then,,,,but ,,tis ok too,,,,,,
June
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
valerie@... writes:
>might i add a few to the tar and feather list??just for balance???
> Having said all of that, if she does quit, I'd like some volunteers
> to help me tar and feather her father and my parents. :-|
>
> love, Valerie
>
>
she will be just fine,, i am finding with my younglins and '''going against
the grain''',of not putting them in public school,,,that as they believe more
in their selves,,,they are more at peace in new situations...
bless you ,and your trail blazing in the 80's..i wish i had the ,,,pardon the
wording,,,but the balls to have dont this then,,,,but ,,tis ok too,,,,,,
June
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]