Re: The whole Santa Clause thing

Patti Diamond

1 Sep 2004, at 6:15am

HiAll!

I just thought I would weigh in here on Santa Claus. Christy is right, there
was a discussion about this very topic about a month ago now on Unschooling
Discussion group. I would like to post here what I wrote in response to
Angela's post on that list as well as her message. If you go to the archives
you can find the other responses as well!:).....
Oh and P.S. I agree with both you Christy with what you wrote "
I also believe in fairies in general....I don't feel it is lying to him,
because I do believe these things exist. If at some point in his life he
decides the evidence isn't
strong enough to support his believe, that is fine. It won't change
what I believe." as this is too, how I feel and what I believe!:)

and Cat's suggestions for how to approach not telling others about why to
believe or not. Cat wrote "that it is unkind to tell those children that
Santa is not real - under the general principle of not bursting other people
s bubbles. It goes along with not expressing her unfavorable opinion of art
that other children are proud of and similar issues of celebrating rather
than dampening other people's happiness." I feel the same as this is how I
approach it with my children when they ask me why some children believe or
do not and why.

Anyhow....here is a copy of my post below from the other group and Angela's
as well. You can check out the archives for the rest on the Unschooling
Discussions site!:)

Blessings and Light,
Patti
-------Original Message------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:41:43 -0000
From: "christy_imnotred" <christy_imnotred@...>
Subject: Re: The Whole Santa Clause Thing

They had this discussion not too long ago on Unschooling Discussion
if you want to go look through the archives. I was one who said that
I told my son about Santa and the tooth fairy because we don't really
know for sure they don't exist. Just because we haven't seen them
doesn't mean they aren't real. I've never seen an electron or a
quark, doesn' mean I don't believe they are real. I choose to
believe Santa and the tooth fairy are real in some way. So that is
what I tell my son I believe. I know they aren't leaving presents
under the tree or putting money under my son's pillow but it doesn't
mean they don't exist.

I also believe in fairies in general and my son and I put honey out
for them. One time we had a beautiful flower grow in the exact spot
we put the honey. We didn't plant the flower. During Yule my son
gets presents from Mother Earth.

I don't feel it is lying to him, because I do believe these things
exist. If at some point in his life he decides the evidence isn't
strong enough to support his believe, that is fine. It won't change
what I believe.

Christy

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Patti

2 Sep 2004, at 3:18pm

Somehow the post did not copy totally, so lets try again!

Here is the posts below!
Love and light,
Patti
----Original Message------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:22:10 -0400
From: "Angela" <game-enthusiast@...>
Subject: RE: Santa

I'm conflicted about the whole Santa thing.

When the kids were very small I never considered not playing out the Santa
fantasy. I love Santa! I still remember when I found out he was fantasy.
I was in third grade and the kids went around the table asking if you
believed in Santa. No one said yes, and I didn't either. But that
was the
first time I questioned it. I asked my mother and she said that if I
didn't
believe, he wouldn't come. I've believed ever since. ;0) I didn't feel
betrayed by my mother at all, though.

Then one day I was talking with a cousin who also homeschools her children
and she said she told her kids from the start that Santa wasn't real. At
first I thought it was awful for her to ruin the fantasy part of Christmas
but after giving it some thought I started to feel bad that I had lied
to my
children about this, but been very honest with them in all other regards.
The reason she told her kids from the start that Santa was fantasy is
because she felt like she was the last one to learn the truth and she felt
her mother had lied to her. She lived next to the school and one day
in 5th
grade all the kids were saying that Santa wasn't real. She went home and
asked her mother and her mother didn't tell her the truth and she went
back
to school and argued it with the kids. In the end she ended up feeling
stupid and lied to. (If my kids asked, I would either tell them the
truth,
though.)

Over the years it has seemed like I've had to keep lying and changing the
lies to keep it under wraps. (or sometimes I just say I don't know...this
is what happened when I was little.) Over the last few years I've
tried not
to lie outright about Santa but put it a little differently......"we'd
better get to bed, *they say* Santa only comes when you are fast asleep."
(kind of like Sandra mentioned.)

From the time the kids were small we had gifts from Santa and gifts
from us.
Santa fills the stockings and leaves a few small gifts and the rest is
from
us. I can't really change that now but it has always been confusing
for me
because I can never remember what gifts were from Santa and what were from
us, after the fact. So two months later when a mom asks me where we got
something, I'm likely to say enthusiastically, oh, I got that on ebay for
only $5, to which my children pipe up..."no you didn't, we got that from
Santa!" Agh!!! I've done that more times than I care to mention. I am
getting better at saying "we got it for Christmas, (and tell the details
later) but I still forget in my enthusiasm to share a good idea or good
deal.) My kids have always asked why we need to give to charities at
Christmas time. Doesn't Santa give presents to everyone? Having gifts
from both Santa and us made it easier to answer that question...Santa only
fills stocking and brings a few small gifts, but the kids seem to think
they'd be perfectly happy with just the Santa gifts, so why isn't everyone
else?

But as my oldest gets older (she's almost 10) I have begun to worry more
about her learning the truth and feeling betrayed. Obviously, she doesn't
go to school so she won't be questioned there. She has one very close
friend who also believes. She also plays with cousins somewhat regularly
but I am not sure if they would talk about that. Will she ever learn the
truth or will I have to sneak into her house when she is grown up to
deliver
presents to her kids? LOL! She is very analytical so part of me
wonders if
she didn't figure it out years ago and just wants to believe so badly that
she's willing to overlook the inconsistencies. If she asks for the
truth I
will certainly tell her but until both my girls know I think I will feel a
little unease somewhere in the back of my mind about it. I wish I'd
been a
little more mysterious about it instead of seeming like I had the
facts when
they were smaller. I did tell them that the santas in stores are not the
real Santa....but that feels like a lie too, for goodness sakes. (it
indicates that there is a *real* Santa.)

I love "Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus" and I've always thought I'd
read that to the kids when they question me. Sometimes thing happen
off the
cuff here though and I forget what I've planned. We'll see, I guess.

Angela ~ the conflicted
game-enthusiast@...

-------Original Message-------

From: Diamondlady1025
Date: 07/22/04 18:31:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Santa....a different view

Why be conflicted about the whole Santa thing? Yes, Santa may very
well be a fantasy character, a man much like Superman, Batman or
Spiderman in our fantasy world..... but if you can look behind the man
into what he represents in the eyes of children and in my eyes, you
will find something much more real.

To me, I love Santa. I loved Santa even when I found out he was not
"real". I was not disappointed or hurt by what appeared to be my
parents "lies", because I never interpreted them as "lies". The only
thing I was upset about was the fact that my mother used the same
wrapping paper and tags for the presents she and my dad gave, as she
did the ones from Santa. I think my reasoning there was one of that if
she was going to have made such strides to have the gifts be from two
different sets of people without us knowing it, why use the same paper
then? :)

So, why was I not hurt or disappointed about discovering that the
physical person of Santa was being portrayed by my parents? Because
for me, Santa is and always has been since as far back as I can
remember, been the belief in what is possible. Santa is not so much of
a HE but rather a what is. It is a knowing that although we cannot
always see something - faith, hope, love, magic, fate, miracles, what
can be, possibility....... we can still believe. We can still believe
in what can be, in life, no matter what logic may tell us.

Do we believe in love and the power of love to go beyond what we
humans can see and reason? You bet we do, and we believe in it so
strongly that sometimes it can make us blind to what is real. But we
believe in it nonetheless, and it is not something real in the sense
of something we can feel, touch, smell, taste or hear....but we
believe, we believe in it's power and in it's strength and in the
essence of knowing it is what brings us all together, no matter what
race, no matter what (fill in the blank).....

Santa may not be real in the sense of we cannot feel, touch, smell,
taste or hear him BUT we can believe in what he is in our hearts - a
sense of innocence, a sense of awe and wonder at life and of life and
in life. We can believe in that all things are possible and that life
is the miracle that it is because we choose to see it for the miracle
that it is. Santa is so much more than just someone who brings
children presents on Christmas while we all go to sleep. It is a
belief of something that is beyond what we can use our five senses to
see, materialize and realize - the magic of what is possible in life
beyond any reason or explanation, it just is..... and the spirit in
which that can happen, that needs to be felt and seen here. Seeing is
not believing, believing is seeing!

That is who Santa is to me. Do I believe in Santa? You bet I do and I
will always believe in him until I draw my last breath! Do my kids
believe? They are 13, 7, (almost 8, next month) and 6 and you bet they
do! :) They will not feel betrayed when they learn of the truth that I
am the one who gives them the presents under the tree and in their
stockings, instead of a physical man who wears a red suit, because
they know of what Santa truly is in all of which I have written here
and more, beyond what our minds can reason. And THAT is what will be
keep Santa alive in their hearts and keep them believing in Santa, not
for the figure of the man he is, but for what he is and can be within
their hearts.

Patti and the boys (Chris 13, Matthew 7, Anthony 6)
Life Long Learning Academy
http://www.life-long-learning-4-all.com/index.html
"For no matter where knowledge and learning come from - no matter
what shape, size, or dimension it assumes - it still is what it is,
knowledge and learning. Therefore knowledge and learning should
always be embraced." ~ unknown

----Original Message------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:03:13 -0400
From: "Angela" <game-enthusiast@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Santa....a different view

Patti,
What you wrote was beautiful and also the theme behind "yes Virginia,
there
is a Santa Claus", which I love and plan to share with my children at some
point.

I also wanted to mention that the cousin I mentioned who felt so
betrayed by
her parents also had a LOT of other issues with regards to her parent's
parenting. So, it's not like the Santa issue was the only thing she was
lied to about. There was both physical and mental abuse to go with it.

Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...

Patti wrote:
<snip>
Santa may not be real in the sense of we cannot feel, touch, smell,
taste or
hear him BUT we can believe in what he is in our hearts - a sense of
innocence, a sense of awe and wonder at life and of life and in life.
<snip>

And Rebeca wrote:
<snip>
I have friends who were terribly bothered by their parent's
'lies' about Santa. But, then again, lots of things about their
upbringing
bother them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Diamondlady1025
Date: 07/23/04 11:33:50
To: [email protected]
Subject: Yes, Angela....there is a Santa Claus :)

Hi Angela!

Thank you for your kind words. And yes, you are right it does fall
under the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus"! :) One of my
favorite books.....When I read it, it makes me cry! :)

I understand that of your cousin's situation, as well. Believe it or
not, my parents were also physical and emotionally and mentally
abusive too. My mother used to beat me with anything she could find -
a shoe, a belt buckle or her favorite was for me to find my "switch"
from this long tall purple tree in our front yard with long thin
branches. My father, he was and still is emotionally abusive. His
words cut like a knife to me as a young impressionable young girl.

It took counseling when I was 13 (after my mother was attempting to
beat me in the kitchen with a shoe and I grabbed a knife in self
defense), for us to get past the physical abuse, and she then never
laid a hand on me again. And should would never even dream of doing so
with my children, as she is getting her "second chance" as she puts it
to make things right.

My father, is my father, and I have accepted that he is who he is. He
continues to abuse me in this way even today. When I have stronger
days, I stand up to him, other days it is harder when I am sick (I
have just been diagnosed with Lupus and Thrombophilia or sticky blood
as it is called) but overall I try not to let his words pierce me and
I have learned too that I cannot change him, only change myself and my
reaction or non-reaction to it.

So I can relate very much to your cousin. But somehow, for me, despite
the abuses going on, there were good times I remember and my feelings
about Santa never changed, I just love the spirit and meaning behind
Santa, as I wrote! :) Has your cousin been able to work through the
issues?

So, yes, Angela, there is a Santa Claus! :)

Thanks for making my day sweeter by your kind words!:)

--- In [email protected], "Patti Diamond"
<diamondlady1025@y...> wrote:

> HiAll!
>
> I just thought I would weigh in here on Santa Claus. Christy is

right, there

> was a discussion about this very topic about a month ago now on

Unschooling

> Discussion group. I would like to post here what I wrote in response to
> Angela's post on that list as well as her message. If you go to the