Telling the Truth re Pet Death
mamaaj2000
Long before I had kids or had heard of unschooling or the radical
idea of treating kids with respect, I used to flinch at people who
lied to their kids without even considering telling them the truth.
But...I'm kind of afraid of telling ds (almost 4) that we're having
one of our cats put to sleep. (Not that I'd use the word 'sleep' if I
do explain it.) I guess I'm afraid of him having the idea that we
kill someone if they are too sick. I think he could handle the idea
that Gizmo died because the vet couldn't save him, but I'm worried
about questions about people getting sick enough to be "put down".
That seems like a tougher subject.
Am I wimping out? I don't know. Dh won't be able to handle ANY
conversation on the matter (his cat for 15 years, dying of cancer
just like my FIL did), so I'm on my own.
Maybe there's a middle ground, like explaining that the vet couldn't
do anything besides make sure Gizmo wasn't hurting anymore--leaving
out the fact that we went there knowing what was going to happen.
Any clear thinking on this subject would be appreciated, because it's
not the least bit clear in my head right now. I'm just glad I found a
new babysitter last week so that I can drop off the kids and go with
dh to the vet.
Thanks,
aj
idea of treating kids with respect, I used to flinch at people who
lied to their kids without even considering telling them the truth.
But...I'm kind of afraid of telling ds (almost 4) that we're having
one of our cats put to sleep. (Not that I'd use the word 'sleep' if I
do explain it.) I guess I'm afraid of him having the idea that we
kill someone if they are too sick. I think he could handle the idea
that Gizmo died because the vet couldn't save him, but I'm worried
about questions about people getting sick enough to be "put down".
That seems like a tougher subject.
Am I wimping out? I don't know. Dh won't be able to handle ANY
conversation on the matter (his cat for 15 years, dying of cancer
just like my FIL did), so I'm on my own.
Maybe there's a middle ground, like explaining that the vet couldn't
do anything besides make sure Gizmo wasn't hurting anymore--leaving
out the fact that we went there knowing what was going to happen.
Any clear thinking on this subject would be appreciated, because it's
not the least bit clear in my head right now. I'm just glad I found a
new babysitter last week so that I can drop off the kids and go with
dh to the vet.
Thanks,
aj
dana tierney
I think explaining that it is the alternative to a lot of pain may
work. My daughter was about 9 when we went through this, though... but
she found a cat that had been hit by a car nd was trynig to nurse it.
When I found out about this I realized that the cat had a compound
fracture at a minimum so we took her to the vet (me debating how much
I can afford to spend on a stray cat) and found out that the leg was
hopeless and there were unknown internal injuries too. We explained
that the kitty was probably going to die anyway and did not understand
anything except that she hurt really bad. My daughter cried a little
and asked for time to say goodbye. It seemed to help when I pointed
out that at least the kitty died knowing somebody cared about her.
Hope that helps
Dana
work. My daughter was about 9 when we went through this, though... but
she found a cat that had been hit by a car nd was trynig to nurse it.
When I found out about this I realized that the cat had a compound
fracture at a minimum so we took her to the vet (me debating how much
I can afford to spend on a stray cat) and found out that the leg was
hopeless and there were unknown internal injuries too. We explained
that the kitty was probably going to die anyway and did not understand
anything except that she hurt really bad. My daughter cried a little
and asked for time to say goodbye. It seemed to help when I pointed
out that at least the kitty died knowing somebody cared about her.
Hope that helps
Dana
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:13:51 -0000, mamaaj2000 <mamaaj2000@...> wrote:
> Long before I had kids or had heard of unschooling or the radical
> idea of treating kids with respect, I used to flinch at people who
> lied to their kids without even considering telling them the truth.
>
> But...I'm kind of afraid of telling ds (almost 4) that we're having
> one of our cats put to sleep. (Not that I'd use the word 'sleep' if I
> do explain it.) I guess I'm afraid of him having the idea that we
> kill someone if they are too sick. I think he could handle the idea
> that Gizmo died because the vet couldn't save him, but I'm worried
> about questions about people getting sick enough to be "put down".
> That seems like a tougher subject.
>
> Am I wimping out? I don't know. Dh won't be able to handle ANY
> conversation on the matter (his cat for 15 years, dying of cancer
> just like my FIL did), so I'm on my own.
>
> Maybe there's a middle ground, like explaining that the vet couldn't
> do anything besides make sure Gizmo wasn't hurting anymore--leaving
> out the fact that we went there knowing what was going to happen.
>
> Any clear thinking on this subject would be appreciated, because it's
> not the least bit clear in my head right now. I'm just glad I found a
> new babysitter last week so that I can drop off the kids and go with
> dh to the vet.
>
> Thanks,
> aj
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 30/08/2004 13:16:00 Pacific Daylight Time,
mamaaj2000@... writes:
able to handle the truth quite well, when it is given kindly and explained well.
We have been open to discussing the entire aspect of euthanasia of pets with
our ds, now8.5, and he has been great with it. We had a small dog that was my
son's, and he had an auto-immune disease, and we had to euthanise him to ease
his suffering, and that ws exactly how we told Tommy , he was there, and we
consulted him about it, and he agreed it was the kindest thing to do. Now he was
6 at the time, and chose not to be present for the act. We have had a dog put
down , and telling tommy about it ahead of time gave him time to say good-bye
and talk about the dog and what he loved about her, to give her a cookie, and
really grieve without any surprise.
That is what worked for us, and it has set the stage for some really open
communication about death, dying, and life. He did have some anxiety about us
dying, but I think they all go thru that at some point.
Children are remarkable in their capacity to understand and care for pets,
this can be seen as part of that process, I believe.
Nancy in BC, sorry you are losing a friend.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000@... writes:
> but I'm worriedHow sad for you aj, it has been our experience that our children have been
> about questions about people getting sick enough to be "put down".
>
able to handle the truth quite well, when it is given kindly and explained well.
We have been open to discussing the entire aspect of euthanasia of pets with
our ds, now8.5, and he has been great with it. We had a small dog that was my
son's, and he had an auto-immune disease, and we had to euthanise him to ease
his suffering, and that ws exactly how we told Tommy , he was there, and we
consulted him about it, and he agreed it was the kindest thing to do. Now he was
6 at the time, and chose not to be present for the act. We have had a dog put
down , and telling tommy about it ahead of time gave him time to say good-bye
and talk about the dog and what he loved about her, to give her a cookie, and
really grieve without any surprise.
That is what worked for us, and it has set the stage for some really open
communication about death, dying, and life. He did have some anxiety about us
dying, but I think they all go thru that at some point.
Children are remarkable in their capacity to understand and care for pets,
this can be seen as part of that process, I believe.
Nancy in BC, sorry you are losing a friend.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alison Broadbent
Hi Aj,
I'm so sorry to hear about your dear cat. We had a dog who died when
our ds was 9 mos. I do believe that kids take in what they can manage
at the time. He has asked about Gus and I told him what happened to
him. At 3 and 4, he talked about him many times. I might have said
something to a friend and then later my ds would say something like,
'Gus is just at the vet's. He didn't die. Sometimes it just takes a
long time for dog's to get better." I guess I would try telling your
ds what's going on and follow his lead w/ what he wants to know.
I feel for what you're going through. It's so hard. It seems so
difficult to separate our own fears about these things from what an
open child might take them to mean.. Let us know how this goes and
know we're thinking of you.
Alison
I'm so sorry to hear about your dear cat. We had a dog who died when
our ds was 9 mos. I do believe that kids take in what they can manage
at the time. He has asked about Gus and I told him what happened to
him. At 3 and 4, he talked about him many times. I might have said
something to a friend and then later my ds would say something like,
'Gus is just at the vet's. He didn't die. Sometimes it just takes a
long time for dog's to get better." I guess I would try telling your
ds what's going on and follow his lead w/ what he wants to know.
I feel for what you're going through. It's so hard. It seems so
difficult to separate our own fears about these things from what an
open child might take them to mean.. Let us know how this goes and
know we're thinking of you.
Alison
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Hi, aj,
Sorry to hear you are going through this. Losing an animal is really hard.
We had to put down the cat who was best friend to my husband (had him since
college when the cat was a kitten) when I was 8 mos pregnant with my son.
My daughter was 2.2 yrs old and VERY attached to that cat. He was a big old
tomcat with an amazingly easy disposition and used to let her sit on him and
"ride him" - his name was Suji and he was like her brother at the time. I
think it helped that she went to the vet and was there when the vet talked
to us about him - his kidneys had stopped working, he was old, and that's
what we reiterated to her. We had a conversation about how all living
creatures get old and their bodies stop working, and I made sure to throw in
that for people it's a good long time.
I was very hesitant, like you, about how my sensitive daughter would take
all this. Personally I didn't consider myself all that close to the cat and
I sobbed for a day and a half. My daughter amazed me with the way she
handled it. She used play acting - pretended she was the vet and re-enacted
the whole trip to the vet experience, giving her cat a checkup. My daughter
also used to refer to herself a lot in the third person to talk about things
she found difficult (something that evolved out of our storytelling). She
went through a period where when she called herself "Suji", the cat's name,
when she was doing this. So she'd say "Suji didn't like the way that boy
was playing" for instance, meaning herself. So I came away from the whole
thing amazed at my child's ability to use the tools at her disposal to
process and handle the event of Suji's death. I'd be willing to bet your
child will amaze you also.
Joan
Sorry to hear you are going through this. Losing an animal is really hard.
We had to put down the cat who was best friend to my husband (had him since
college when the cat was a kitten) when I was 8 mos pregnant with my son.
My daughter was 2.2 yrs old and VERY attached to that cat. He was a big old
tomcat with an amazingly easy disposition and used to let her sit on him and
"ride him" - his name was Suji and he was like her brother at the time. I
think it helped that she went to the vet and was there when the vet talked
to us about him - his kidneys had stopped working, he was old, and that's
what we reiterated to her. We had a conversation about how all living
creatures get old and their bodies stop working, and I made sure to throw in
that for people it's a good long time.
I was very hesitant, like you, about how my sensitive daughter would take
all this. Personally I didn't consider myself all that close to the cat and
I sobbed for a day and a half. My daughter amazed me with the way she
handled it. She used play acting - pretended she was the vet and re-enacted
the whole trip to the vet experience, giving her cat a checkup. My daughter
also used to refer to herself a lot in the third person to talk about things
she found difficult (something that evolved out of our storytelling). She
went through a period where when she called herself "Suji", the cat's name,
when she was doing this. So she'd say "Suji didn't like the way that boy
was playing" for instance, meaning herself. So I came away from the whole
thing amazed at my child's ability to use the tools at her disposal to
process and handle the event of Suji's death. I'd be willing to bet your
child will amaze you also.
Joan
christy_imnotred
We are getting ready to go through this too. Our dog of 8 years has
been diagnosed with nasal carcinoma, he doesn't have long. Most
likely we will end up having to put him down. I've also been
wondering how to tell my son, he is almost 5. He is very attached to
this dog. I know I have to tell him the truth and be very careful to
avoid words like putting to sleep. It is going to be so hard. I cry
just thinking about it. Good luck. Let us know what you do and how
it goes, any advice will be useful.
Christy O
been diagnosed with nasal carcinoma, he doesn't have long. Most
likely we will end up having to put him down. I've also been
wondering how to tell my son, he is almost 5. He is very attached to
this dog. I know I have to tell him the truth and be very careful to
avoid words like putting to sleep. It is going to be so hard. I cry
just thinking about it. Good luck. Let us know what you do and how
it goes, any advice will be useful.
Christy O
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
I'm wondering how folks on this list who celebrate Christmas handle the
topic of Santa. I went with my gut instinct when my kids first asked about
Santa and told them he was part of the spirit of giving at Christmas time
and that he was pretend like Barney...lots of fun to read about him, talk
about him, watch videos about him, but it was mama and daddy putting their
actual presents under the tree. And we have handled the Tooth Fairy thing
the same way - fun but pretend. It feels better to me to present it this
way, they've responded fine to it, the only hitch being when other kids
believe Santa and the tooth fairy are real and I'm not sure what the best
way to explain that to my kids is ... I'm pondering saying "Well in that
family they like to play a game where Santa is real" or something similar.
I guess I want to show respect for other family's choices but explain it in
a way that makes sense with my decision. Any ideas or alternate way of
handling this?
Thanks...
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
topic of Santa. I went with my gut instinct when my kids first asked about
Santa and told them he was part of the spirit of giving at Christmas time
and that he was pretend like Barney...lots of fun to read about him, talk
about him, watch videos about him, but it was mama and daddy putting their
actual presents under the tree. And we have handled the Tooth Fairy thing
the same way - fun but pretend. It feels better to me to present it this
way, they've responded fine to it, the only hitch being when other kids
believe Santa and the tooth fairy are real and I'm not sure what the best
way to explain that to my kids is ... I'm pondering saying "Well in that
family they like to play a game where Santa is real" or something similar.
I guess I want to show respect for other family's choices but explain it in
a way that makes sense with my decision. Any ideas or alternate way of
handling this?
Thanks...
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
catherine aceto
We just flat out told Lydia (now almost 7) that some people tell their children that Santa is real, and that it is unkind to tell those children that Santa is not real - under the general principle of not bursting other people's bubbles. It goes along with not expressing her unfavorable opinion of art that other children are proud of and similar issues of celebrating rather than dampening other people's happiness.
She wanted to know why the parents do that, and I told her that the parents thought that would be best, or more fun for the kids, or something like that. I think she finds it inexplicable, but she finds a lot of things that other people's parents do inexplicable. It doesn't seem to bother her and the only time that it has been an issue was when her friends tell stories designed Lydia clearly knows to be untrue (like her friend who said that she once saw Santa coming down her chimney) (They just agreed to disagree), and the time that a bunch of girls at gymnastics were badgering Lydia to agree to believe in the tooth fairy. She ended up telling them there was no tooth fairy, which made the gymnastics staff annoyed with her (rolls eyes). I told her that she didn't have to engage with people on these questions - and really the best tactic was to agree to disagree.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She wanted to know why the parents do that, and I told her that the parents thought that would be best, or more fun for the kids, or something like that. I think she finds it inexplicable, but she finds a lot of things that other people's parents do inexplicable. It doesn't seem to bother her and the only time that it has been an issue was when her friends tell stories designed Lydia clearly knows to be untrue (like her friend who said that she once saw Santa coming down her chimney) (They just agreed to disagree), and the time that a bunch of girls at gymnastics were badgering Lydia to agree to believe in the tooth fairy. She ended up telling them there was no tooth fairy, which made the gymnastics staff annoyed with her (rolls eyes). I told her that she didn't have to engage with people on these questions - and really the best tactic was to agree to disagree.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
christy_imnotred
They had this discussion not too long ago on Unschooling Discussion
if you want to go look through the archives. I was one who said that
I told my son about Santa and the tooth fairy because we don't really
know for sure they don't exist. Just because we haven't seen them
doesn't mean they aren't real. I've never seen an electron or a
quark, doesn' mean I don't believe they are real. I choose to
believe Santa and the tooth fairy are real in some way. So that is
what I tell my son I believe. I know they aren't leaving presents
under the tree or putting money under my son's pillow but it doesn't
mean they don't exist.
I also believe in fairies in general and my son and I put honey out
for them. One time we had a beautiful flower grow in the exact spot
we put the honey. We didn't plant the flower. During Yule my son
gets presents from Mother Earth.
I don't feel it is lying to him, because I do believe these things
exist. If at some point in his life he decides the evidence isn't
strong enough to support his believe, that is fine. It won't change
what I believe.
Christy
if you want to go look through the archives. I was one who said that
I told my son about Santa and the tooth fairy because we don't really
know for sure they don't exist. Just because we haven't seen them
doesn't mean they aren't real. I've never seen an electron or a
quark, doesn' mean I don't believe they are real. I choose to
believe Santa and the tooth fairy are real in some way. So that is
what I tell my son I believe. I know they aren't leaving presents
under the tree or putting money under my son's pillow but it doesn't
mean they don't exist.
I also believe in fairies in general and my son and I put honey out
for them. One time we had a beautiful flower grow in the exact spot
we put the honey. We didn't plant the flower. During Yule my son
gets presents from Mother Earth.
I don't feel it is lying to him, because I do believe these things
exist. If at some point in his life he decides the evidence isn't
strong enough to support his believe, that is fine. It won't change
what I believe.
Christy
Krisula Moyer
When my oldest was 2 he started asking, "Who is that man with the beard?"
He noticed the image seemed to be just everywhere (it was December). We
told him "That's Santa Clause - He reminds us to be generous" No mention at
that time about real or not real. Later we checked out a book from the
library about the history of St. Nicholas, which included pictures of the
images as they evolved over time and stories, associated with him in
different countries. We borrowed this book many times over the years.
We put out shoes on St Nicolas Tag and stockings at Christmas and generally
had a great time with it. The main point we made with him was that people
would sign Santa's name when they wanted to be anonymous. So, if you get a
present from Santa, it's because someone wanted to make you happy with a
present but didn't want to tell the secret of who the gift was from. This
worked out well for ds. He always got it that he shouldn't spoil the fun by
explaining that Santa is not real. He got to pretend if he wanted to (he
rarely did though) and he could surprise others with gifts "from Santa".
DD went through a time about age 6 when she really believed in Santa and
wanted us to as well. For her, the magical stories and movies on tv were
utterly convincing. We let her believe. Didn't spoil her fun but one thing
we were sure not to do was to egg it on. The aspect of Santa I find
disturbing is where adults manipulate children by telling them bald-faced
lies to try to get the kids to behave "or you'll get a lump of coal". Or
Santa can see that - you better be good. I think when the kids put together
a mythos for themselves about santa that's much more fun than if the adults
try to "teach" them that he is real and going to elaborate lengths to hold
up the myth. The favorite stories around here about the big guy are the
early ones from Italy and Romania and the modern ones where the love of the
parents for the children is highlighted.
krisula
He noticed the image seemed to be just everywhere (it was December). We
told him "That's Santa Clause - He reminds us to be generous" No mention at
that time about real or not real. Later we checked out a book from the
library about the history of St. Nicholas, which included pictures of the
images as they evolved over time and stories, associated with him in
different countries. We borrowed this book many times over the years.
We put out shoes on St Nicolas Tag and stockings at Christmas and generally
had a great time with it. The main point we made with him was that people
would sign Santa's name when they wanted to be anonymous. So, if you get a
present from Santa, it's because someone wanted to make you happy with a
present but didn't want to tell the secret of who the gift was from. This
worked out well for ds. He always got it that he shouldn't spoil the fun by
explaining that Santa is not real. He got to pretend if he wanted to (he
rarely did though) and he could surprise others with gifts "from Santa".
DD went through a time about age 6 when she really believed in Santa and
wanted us to as well. For her, the magical stories and movies on tv were
utterly convincing. We let her believe. Didn't spoil her fun but one thing
we were sure not to do was to egg it on. The aspect of Santa I find
disturbing is where adults manipulate children by telling them bald-faced
lies to try to get the kids to behave "or you'll get a lump of coal". Or
Santa can see that - you better be good. I think when the kids put together
a mythos for themselves about santa that's much more fun than if the adults
try to "teach" them that he is real and going to elaborate lengths to hold
up the myth. The favorite stories around here about the big guy are the
early ones from Italy and Romania and the modern ones where the love of the
parents for the children is highlighted.
krisula
mamaaj2000
Thanks for the advice and support. I haven't had time to write any
responses because my dd has decided that sleep is optional!! Argh.
I think I'm going to talk to ds and just take it one statement at a
time and see how it goes. Gizmo has avoided Mikey since he started
crawling, so Mikey isn't close to him or really aware of how sick he
is.
I also have to talk to dh, because he's thinking about doing this in
a couple weeks or later and I think we may need to do it much sooner.
Thanks again,
aj
responses because my dd has decided that sleep is optional!! Argh.
I think I'm going to talk to ds and just take it one statement at a
time and see how it goes. Gizmo has avoided Mikey since he started
crawling, so Mikey isn't close to him or really aware of how sick he
is.
I also have to talk to dh, because he's thinking about doing this in
a couple weeks or later and I think we may need to do it much sooner.
Thanks again,
aj
Alyce
--- In [email protected], "catherine aceto"
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
(like her friend who said that she once saw Santa coming down her
chimney)
To this day my husband's sister swears she saw Santa in her back
yard. She's 40. I'm sure not going to argue with her. I think
it's terrific.
Alyce
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
(like her friend who said that she once saw Santa coming down her
chimney)
To this day my husband's sister swears she saw Santa in her back
yard. She's 40. I'm sure not going to argue with her. I think
it's terrific.
Alyce