Geneva Goza

I hope I can fit all this info into a quick ameil. I'm so busy these days...I love reading everyone's posts and advice but I never seem to have time for my own.

My son Echo is 3 yrs and 8 mos. He has always been a mature, cool, laid back kinda guy. He's not really loud or rowdy, likes books movies, music and art lately he's into spiderman and more "guyish" things. The supposed terrible twos were just a non issue for him, he never has/had tantrums or fits, jjust not his style.

Recently (last couple of weeks) he is having 1 to 3 major breakdowns per day..on days that he skips nap. I know the cause...this doesn't happen until after he has skipped his nap. He was a 3 hr per day napper until this summer and now he skips his nap a few times a week...we try to get him to bed earlier but it doesn't always happen. ANYWAY - these breakdown are most of the time over something "small" (though to him it's huge). I think I see the pattern here and I've been getting the baby down for nap and then he and I lie in my bed together for his nap...he just never goes to sleep. So eventually we get up and then later something sets him off and he goes nuts.
Also, we've tried "quiet time" in place of nap...today for example, we went to lie down 30 min later he's still awake and saying he doesnt need a nap, we agree on a movie in bed so that he can rest with his "blankie" and I can take care of some things before baby wakes. Everything was fine...until after lunch.

His sister spilled his raisins and he went into FULL scream "i want my raisins". I knew he was getting fired up and I wnated to help him get calm so I led him to his room to get a hold of himself, we couldn't even talk with him in hysterics like that...he stayed in his room screaming the same phrase for about 3 minutes. He came out, we talked briefly about being so tired etc and he was fine for several hours.

Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he completely looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe being in his room makes it worse.
I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me, it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is simply "grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at 9am. hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.


I'm worried about him - he's NEVER done this until recently.

Geneva



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TreeGoddess

On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:11 AM, Geneva Goza wrote:

> [Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior? ]

Totally. My 3yo DD is going through this phase now and my DS (now 5)
did it too. One of my friends (not un/homeschoolers at all) says that
she dreads the third year because of the tantrums.

Personally, I think it that this age is the point when children
*really* start to understand that they're their own person and not an
extension of Mama. This can be a cool time for them to explore,
experiment, and really flex their Self; it can also be a little
unnerving and frustrating to them and we just have to keep giving them
our love and patience and be there for them to fall back on. Remember
when your child first started crawling? They'd crawl away from you and
explore a bit but often crawled back to Mama to reconnect. I think
it's similar to that, but in a more mental than physical way. HTH

Relax. Your son is fine. :)
-Tracy-

Lanie Carlson-Lim

my nineteen month old is going through a similar phase...skipping naps and then getting grouchy...I know she's tired, so some days I just have to hold her and rock her a few minutes while she tantrums and then she calms down and conks out...otherwise she just fights it pretty hard. I've tried snuggling her in bed ( she tries to climb down), movies (she watches them and stays awake)...so know I just stick to music and rocking. This has been recent for her as well...though I have noticed about 4 new teeth, so that could explain it...now we are in a habit of sleeping later, then napping later...i hope this changes soon :)

Lanie
----- Original Message -----
From: Geneva Goza
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:11 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] question about my son


I hope I can fit all this info into a quick ameil. I'm so busy these days...I love reading everyone's posts and advice but I never seem to have time for my own.

My son Echo is 3 yrs and 8 mos. He has always been a mature, cool, laid back kinda guy. He's not really loud or rowdy, likes books movies, music and art lately he's into spiderman and more "guyish" things. The supposed terrible twos were just a non issue for him, he never has/had tantrums or fits, jjust not his style.

Recently (last couple of weeks) he is having 1 to 3 major breakdowns per day..on days that he skips nap. I know the cause...this doesn't happen until after he has skipped his nap. He was a 3 hr per day napper until this summer and now he skips his nap a few times a week...we try to get him to bed earlier but it doesn't always happen. ANYWAY - these breakdown are most of the time over something "small" (though to him it's huge). I think I see the pattern here and I've been getting the baby down for nap and then he and I lie in my bed together for his nap...he just never goes to sleep. So eventually we get up and then later something sets him off and he goes nuts.
Also, we've tried "quiet time" in place of nap...today for example, we went to lie down 30 min later he's still awake and saying he doesnt need a nap, we agree on a movie in bed so that he can rest with his "blankie" and I can take care of some things before baby wakes. Everything was fine...until after lunch.

His sister spilled his raisins and he went into FULL scream "i want my raisins". I knew he was getting fired up and I wnated to help him get calm so I led him to his room to get a hold of himself, we couldn't even talk with him in hysterics like that...he stayed in his room screaming the same phrase for about 3 minutes. He came out, we talked briefly about being so tired etc and he was fine for several hours.

Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he completely looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe being in his room makes it worse.
I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me, it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is simply "grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at 9am. hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.


I'm worried about him - he's NEVER done this until recently.

Geneva



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Geneva Goza

thanks Tracy -

So does your DD take naps? Does she need the rest? What do you do if you
know she is tired?

Thanks for your help.


----- Original Message -----
From: "TreeGoddess" <treegoddess@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] question about my son


> On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:11 AM, Geneva Goza wrote:
>
> > [Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior? ]
>
> Totally. My 3yo DD is going through this phase now and my DS (now 5)
> did it too. One of my friends (not un/homeschoolers at all) says that
> she dreads the third year because of the tantrums.
>
> Personally, I think it that this age is the point when children
> *really* start to understand that they're their own person and not an
> extension of Mama. This can be a cool time for them to explore,
> experiment, and really flex their Self; it can also be a little
> unnerving and frustrating to them and we just have to keep giving them
> our love and patience and be there for them to fall back on. Remember
> when your child first started crawling? They'd crawl away from you and
> explore a bit but often crawled back to Mama to reconnect. I think
> it's similar to that, but in a more mental than physical way. HTH
>
> Relax. Your son is fine. :)
> -Tracy-
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

christy_imnotred

--- In [email protected], "Geneva Goza" <goza@m...>
wrote:
>
> Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
> I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he
completely looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe
being in his room makes it worse.
> I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me,
it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to
nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is
simply "grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at
9am. hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.
>

This seems to be pretty normal 3 year old behavior. My friends and I
often talk about how 3 was much harder than 2. My son threw his
best fits when he was 3. I either held him or sat next to him and
rubbed his back when he was having a tantrum. When he was done I
would hug him and we could talk about what happened. It could be
that 3 year olds have more tantrums because they are in the process
of giving up naps. It is hard to be tired, but most kids are done
with naps by the time they are 4 (in my experience). When I knew he
was overtired, I would sit on the couch and put on a movie or
cartoons and have him lay down with his head in my lap. He almost
never feel asleep but the resting and cuddling seemed to help his
mood. I think patience and understanding is the only "cure".

Christy

Geneva Goza

thanks Christy...I will let you all know how it goes today. He woke up at
830 and has been sugary sweet all day. We're going out for a few errands
and when we get in around 12, we'll try for a a nap.
BTW - I went to visit a mom I met freecycle the other day. Her kids are 7
and 4. She says they both take a nap everyday no matter what!!! Wonder how
she does that??

- Geneva




----- Original Message -----
From: "christy_imnotred" <christy_imnotred@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: question about my son


> --- In [email protected], "Geneva Goza" <goza@m...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
> > I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he
> completely looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe
> being in his room makes it worse.
> > I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me,
> it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to
> nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is
> simply "grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at
> 9am. hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.
> >
>
> This seems to be pretty normal 3 year old behavior. My friends and I
> often talk about how 3 was much harder than 2. My son threw his
> best fits when he was 3. I either held him or sat next to him and
> rubbed his back when he was having a tantrum. When he was done I
> would hug him and we could talk about what happened. It could be
> that 3 year olds have more tantrums because they are in the process
> of giving up naps. It is hard to be tired, but most kids are done
> with naps by the time they are 4 (in my experience). When I knew he
> was overtired, I would sit on the couch and put on a movie or
> cartoons and have him lay down with his head in my lap. He almost
> never feel asleep but the resting and cuddling seemed to help his
> mood. I think patience and understanding is the only "cure".
>
> Christy
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Daniel Macintyre

I'm sure most of the people here will tell you this is pretty normal
behavior for a 3 year old, so I'm going to go with the other part of
the question - i.e. his sleep patterns.

Children's sleep patterns do change, so that's probably normal too.
Things you should look at just in case would include changes in his
routine (have his general activities changed much), his exercise (is
he playing as much as he used to) and of course his diet. I'm not
just talking about sugar, caffeine, and chocolate, I'm talking about
any kinds of changes that might be throwing off his body clock or
disrupting his digestion. Also, he may have developed a food
sensitivity that he did not previously have, so try to keep a general
track of what he eats and if there is any correlation to his sleep
patterns.

Again, he could very easily be going through a perfectly natural phase
and I'm not trying to get you paranoid about his sleep changes - just
trying to be helpful.

Daniel


--- In [email protected], "Geneva Goza" <goza@m...> wrote:
> I hope I can fit all this info into a quick ameil. I'm so busy
these days...I love reading everyone's posts and advice but I never
seem to have time for my own.
>
> My son Echo is 3 yrs and 8 mos. He has always been a mature, cool,
laid back kinda guy. He's not really loud or rowdy, likes books
movies, music and art lately he's into spiderman and more "guyish"
things. The supposed terrible twos were just a non issue for him, he
never has/had tantrums or fits, jjust not his style.
>
> Recently (last couple of weeks) he is having 1 to 3 major breakdowns
per day..on days that he skips nap. I know the cause...this doesn't
happen until after he has skipped his nap. He was a 3 hr per day
napper until this summer and now he skips his nap a few times a
week...we try to get him to bed earlier but it doesn't always happen.
ANYWAY - these breakdown are most of the time over something "small"
(though to him it's huge). I think I see the pattern here and I've
been getting the baby down for nap and then he and I lie in my bed
together for his nap...he just never goes to sleep. So eventually we
get up and then later something sets him off and he goes nuts.
> Also, we've tried "quiet time" in place of nap...today for example,
we went to lie down 30 min later he's still awake and saying he doesnt
need a nap, we agree on a movie in bed so that he can rest with his
"blankie" and I can take care of some things before baby wakes.
Everything was fine...until after lunch.
>
> His sister spilled his raisins and he went into FULL scream "i want
my raisins". I knew he was getting fired up and I wnated to help him
get calm so I led him to his room to get a hold of himself, we
couldn't even talk with him in hysterics like that...he stayed in his
room screaming the same phrase for about 3 minutes. He came out, we
talked briefly about being so tired etc and he was fine for several hours.
>
> Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
> I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he completely
looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe being in his
room makes it worse.
> I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me,
it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to
nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is simply
"grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at 9am.
hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.
>
>
> I'm worried about him - he's NEVER done this until recently.
>
> Geneva
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Daniel Macintyre

One thing you could try to head off the worst of the storm is focusing
him. When my son first started throwing major tantrums I would have
him find my eyes (he was just turning 3, so I actually asked him where
my eyes were and had him point to them). When he was actually looking
at me, I told him to blow and then blew all my breath out for him to
emulate. I had him blow five or six times and he usually calmed down
to a manageable point. Hope this helps.

Daniel


--- In [email protected], "Geneva Goza" <goza@m...> wrote:
> I hope I can fit all this info into a quick ameil. I'm so busy
these days...I love reading everyone's posts and advice but I never
seem to have time for my own.
>
> My son Echo is 3 yrs and 8 mos. He has always been a mature, cool,
laid back kinda guy. He's not really loud or rowdy, likes books
movies, music and art lately he's into spiderman and more "guyish"
things. The supposed terrible twos were just a non issue for him, he
never has/had tantrums or fits, jjust not his style.
>
> Recently (last couple of weeks) he is having 1 to 3 major breakdowns
per day..on days that he skips nap. I know the cause...this doesn't
happen until after he has skipped his nap. He was a 3 hr per day
napper until this summer and now he skips his nap a few times a
week...we try to get him to bed earlier but it doesn't always happen.
ANYWAY - these breakdown are most of the time over something "small"
(though to him it's huge). I think I see the pattern here and I've
been getting the baby down for nap and then he and I lie in my bed
together for his nap...he just never goes to sleep. So eventually we
get up and then later something sets him off and he goes nuts.
> Also, we've tried "quiet time" in place of nap...today for example,
we went to lie down 30 min later he's still awake and saying he doesnt
need a nap, we agree on a movie in bed so that he can rest with his
"blankie" and I can take care of some things before baby wakes.
Everything was fine...until after lunch.
>
> His sister spilled his raisins and he went into FULL scream "i want
my raisins". I knew he was getting fired up and I wnated to help him
get calm so I led him to his room to get a hold of himself, we
couldn't even talk with him in hysterics like that...he stayed in his
room screaming the same phrase for about 3 minutes. He came out, we
talked briefly about being so tired etc and he was fine for several hours.
>
> Not sure...is this normal 3 yr old behavior?
> I think next time, i will try to just hold him before he completely
looses it, that may prevent it. I'll have to see. Maybe being in his
room makes it worse.
> I would not have a problem with him skipping every nap BUT to me,
it's pretty obvious that he needs the rest. If a kid doesnt want to
nap and can handle daily stress fine but I really think he is simply
"grouchy" and tired. He stays up until 9 or 10 and wakes at 9am.
hope someone can lead us in the right direction here.
>
>
> I'm worried about him - he's NEVER done this until recently.
>
> Geneva
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TreeGoddess

On Aug 12, 2004, at 10:47 AM, Geneva Goza wrote:

> [So does your DD take naps? Does she need the rest? What do you do
> if you
> know she is tired?]

She does sometimes although she could really use one every day. Doing
"quiet time" doesn't work for her at all. She's a very active girl and
she doesn't enjoy sitting down to look at books with me or coloring or
anything like that. The only time she's staying (fairly) still is when
she's nursing. But even then she's flailing all over the place. LOL

She often falls asleep while nursing so then I just make sure that when
I sit down I have a book, a drink, the remote and the phone. If I
know I'll be sitting down with her soon I'll make sure to get my DS a
drink refill and make him a sandwich or snack also.

My DS was 21 months old when my DD was born and he quit nursing at that
point. He wouldn't just "nap" even if we all laid down. What saved my
sanity was car rides. I'd put them both in their car seats and just
GO. Didn't matter where. Just drive. I'd make sure the diaper bag
was stocked, had snacks and drinks for all of us, and would bring a
book or magazine for me. Once they were good and asleep I'd pull over
in a parking lot or at a park and just read while they snoozed. I did
this almost daily for a few months -- it was the only way they'd both
nap and I also enjoyed time to myself to do some reading.

I don't know if that'll help you at all, but that's what worked me us.
:)
-Tracy-

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/12/2004 1:04:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
goza@... writes:

I went to visit a mom I met freecycle the other day. Her kids are 7
and 4. She says they both take a nap everyday no matter what!!! Wonder how
she does that??<<<<

<g> Sometimes it just happens! Cameron napped twice daily (9:00-11:00 &
1:00-3:30/4:00, plus 12 hours sleep each night) until he was three, daily until
he was almost six, and a lot until he was seven. He's 16 now and still naps
2-3 days/week, if he can.

I got in "trouble" when I called him a "slug" last year. Basically the child
slept and nursed. Only.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/12/2004 12:41:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
macintyd@... writes:

One thing you could try to head off the worst of the storm is focusing
him. When my son first started throwing major tantrums I would have
him find my eyes (he was just turning 3, so I actually asked him where
my eyes were and had him point to them). When he was actually looking
at me, I told him to blow and then blew all my breath out for him to
emulate. I had him blow five or six times and he usually calmed down
to a manageable point. Hope this helps.<<<<

That's really nice, Daniel. I bet that'll help lots of new parents!

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jennefer harper

Geneva, also keep in mind that you really can't
"force" someone to go to sleep. Your son is
definately at that age where that one nap a day
generally phases out. *sigh* I can relate.

Good Luck!
Jennefer



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

pam sorooshian

On Aug 12, 2004, at 10:07 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

> <g> Sometimes it just happens! Cameron napped twice daily (9:00-11:00
> &
> 1:00-3:30/4:00, plus 12 hours sleep each night) until he was three,
> daily until
> he was almost six, and a lot until he was seven. He's 16 now and
> still naps
> 2-3 days/week, if he can.
>
> I got in "trouble" when I called him a "slug" last year. Basically the
> child
> slept and nursed. Only.

Roya slept, nursed, and RAN and dug in the mud. There was nothing
else.Thank goodness for the sleeping times - although sleeping and
nursing were over the same time - I'd try to put her down somewhere and
she'd wake up.

I kept her out of kindergarten, initially, because I couldn't see how
she'd manage to get through an all-day kindergarten when she was still
taking a LONG nap every day around noon to 3 or so. Plus she wasn't
consistently "potty-trained" at 4 (her birthday is end of November -
our cut off date for kindergarten is they should be 5 by December 2nd -
so she made the deadline for starting school that year by just a couple
of days).

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

unschooling1

Wow Kelly! That is amazing to me! My first dd especially has never
been a sleeper, even when she was a baby. I remember reading the
books that said a newborn would sleep 16-20 hours a day or
something, and mine was maybe sleeping 10 or so. She stopped
napping before she was 2, and she never even slept on 9 hour flights
when we were living in Germany. I always looked at all those other
children sleeping on their parents' shoulders very enviously :)

-Christy


--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/12/2004 1:04:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> goza@m... writes:
>
> I went to visit a mom I met freecycle the other day. Her kids
are 7
> and 4. She says they both take a nap everyday no matter what!!!
Wonder how
> she does that??<<<<
>
> <g> Sometimes it just happens! Cameron napped twice daily (9:00-
11:00 &
> 1:00-3:30/4:00, plus 12 hours sleep each night) until he was
three, daily until
> he was almost six, and a lot until he was seven. He's 16 now and
still naps
> 2-3 days/week, if he can.
>
> I got in "trouble" when I called him a "slug" last year. Basically
the child
> slept and nursed. Only.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/14/2004 3:16:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
unschooling1@... writes:

Wow Kelly! That is amazing to me! My first dd especially has never
been a sleeper, even when she was a baby. I remember reading the
books that said a newborn would sleep 16-20 hours a day or
something, and mine was maybe sleeping 10 or so. She stopped
napping before she was 2, and she never even slept on 9 hour flights
when we were living in Germany. I always looked at all those other
children sleeping on their parents' shoulders very enviously :<<<<

We were in Germany too (Cam was born there). Our best friends there had a
daughter like yours. Even as an infant, she needed little sleep. I did NOT envy
her mom! <G> Robin was always tired, 'cause *she* needed more sleep than her
baby girl!

Our little "slug" upset all the hospital nurses; they wanted me to wake him
up to eat. I figured he'd wake up when he was hungry. He did. Then he'd go
right back to sleep! <G> Easy baby!

~Kelly






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

christy_imnotred

--- In [email protected], "unschooling1"
<unschooling1@y...> wrote:
> Wow Kelly! That is amazing to me! My first dd especially has
never
> been a sleeper, even when she was a baby. I remember reading the
> books that said a newborn would sleep 16-20 hours a day or
> something, and mine was maybe sleeping 10 or so. She stopped
> napping before she was 2, and she never even slept on 9 hour
flights
> when we were living in Germany. I always looked at all those other
> children sleeping on their parents' shoulders very enviously :)
>
> -Christy


My son is this way too! It used to freak me out when he was an
infant and only sleeping 10 hours a day. Now he is 4 and only sleeps
about 8 hours a night, still not as much as he is "supposed" to. He
quit napping before he was 2. It is good to know other kids don't
sleep either. The bad thing is I need more sleep than he does, so
I'm always tired!

Another Christy