unschooling and large families(long)
[email protected]
I've been thinking about a recent comment and this thread.
Unschoolers may not tend to "ignore" their children's behavior at the park
more than other hsers- but maybe they have come to unschooling because their
children are very active, spirited, whatever you want to call it, so unschooling
is what works best with their children and their learning styles. (kind of
like what came first the chicken or the egg?)
My son (age 4) is very "spirited" I'd call him, and did not play well with
many of the other kids we used to play with. When he was about 2 1/2 we stopped
going to planned activities and play groups and tried just playing at home,
and interacting with other children in limited setting like playgrounds and the
library. As he's gotten older, we've been able to attend more playgroup type
activities and playground days.
He's still very active and loud, sometimes other children are put off by his
behavior (growling and roaring at them in play). Some days we have to leave,
not very often anymore. But I give him a wide latitude about what behaviors
are ok, and which I need to stop immediately. Many other parents would not
let their kids do some of the things he does at the park (for example- roar and
play dinosaur while playing chase, other kids don't always like it), but if we
left everytime he did that, he would never get out of the house.
If no one is getting hurt or in danger, I try to let him go. I think all
kids need to learn to play without their parent's hovering over them. When he
was 2 (he's very big for his age) and would push kids down or run into them, I
did have to stand right over him when he was near other kids (so much for
parent's getting to interact with adults, huh?). But now he doesn't need that so I
can step back a bit. Obviously if things start to get too rough, I do
intervene.
Also, he's getting much better and needs the practice of interactions. He's
started to talk to other kids alot more during play, and realize when people
don't want to play with him because of how he's acted. It's nice to see him
begin to make friends and be able to go to a playground and play nicely with
kids he's just met.
I also have a daughter age 1 who he plays with very well. We may or may not
have any more children. It depends on how things go in the next year or so.
Right now my hands are full with these 2. But I can't imagine trying to
"teach" my children like school at home. I used to be a special ed teacher.
Unschooling sounds the way to go!
Just my (well more than) 2 cents.
Amanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unschoolers may not tend to "ignore" their children's behavior at the park
more than other hsers- but maybe they have come to unschooling because their
children are very active, spirited, whatever you want to call it, so unschooling
is what works best with their children and their learning styles. (kind of
like what came first the chicken or the egg?)
My son (age 4) is very "spirited" I'd call him, and did not play well with
many of the other kids we used to play with. When he was about 2 1/2 we stopped
going to planned activities and play groups and tried just playing at home,
and interacting with other children in limited setting like playgrounds and the
library. As he's gotten older, we've been able to attend more playgroup type
activities and playground days.
He's still very active and loud, sometimes other children are put off by his
behavior (growling and roaring at them in play). Some days we have to leave,
not very often anymore. But I give him a wide latitude about what behaviors
are ok, and which I need to stop immediately. Many other parents would not
let their kids do some of the things he does at the park (for example- roar and
play dinosaur while playing chase, other kids don't always like it), but if we
left everytime he did that, he would never get out of the house.
If no one is getting hurt or in danger, I try to let him go. I think all
kids need to learn to play without their parent's hovering over them. When he
was 2 (he's very big for his age) and would push kids down or run into them, I
did have to stand right over him when he was near other kids (so much for
parent's getting to interact with adults, huh?). But now he doesn't need that so I
can step back a bit. Obviously if things start to get too rough, I do
intervene.
Also, he's getting much better and needs the practice of interactions. He's
started to talk to other kids alot more during play, and realize when people
don't want to play with him because of how he's acted. It's nice to see him
begin to make friends and be able to go to a playground and play nicely with
kids he's just met.
I also have a daughter age 1 who he plays with very well. We may or may not
have any more children. It depends on how things go in the next year or so.
Right now my hands are full with these 2. But I can't imagine trying to
"teach" my children like school at home. I used to be a special ed teacher.
Unschooling sounds the way to go!
Just my (well more than) 2 cents.
Amanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
If other kids "don't like it" I try to stop my son with this
information. I don't want him to do things to other people that they
do not want done to them. I explain that the other person is
intimidated and feels threatened (assuming the child has conveyed a
desire for the behavior to stop). I give my son the cues to look for
such as the child is running away and screaming stop, or crying, etc.
I do not hover, nor do I "let him go" without information any more
than I would if we were in a place where physical things could be
damaged. I think that it is damaging to a child to have no one
advocate for them when they clearly are wanting something to stop. I
believe that I am complicit in the damage if I do not dissent. Just
as when a child is crying for a parent to stop doing something to
them, I try to empathize with the child.
This is one of my hot buttons, because I WAS the child, and I had no
advocate. I do speak up for the child to be heard. I don't believe
that anyone has a right to do anything to anyone that they don't want
done to them. My son knows I feel this way, sometimes he does
continue. So, I try to empower the other child to see that they can
choose to use their words to tell my son to stop, they can leave,
they can ask their parent or other adult for help.
Similarly, I empower my son to use his words to ask someone to stop
doing something to him that he doesn't want done. He knows he can
tell me to stop. I do. His body is his to control. But I do give him
my opinion, and strongly when he is doing something to someone
against their will. If it is physically hurtful, I remove him. I can
not remember when this may have happened last, before he understood
that some of his behavior could inflict pain probably. I don't know
that there is any benefit to giving my opinion strongly, perhaps even
a disadvantage, but I am emphatic about people's rights to their body.
Giving him information is the key. He can't read minds and we are all
slower at picking up social cues when we are busy, hungary or tired.
We do discuss taking turns and sharing before going to places that
this is likely to be an issue. We discuss that it is hard to take
turns and find fun things to do when we are tired or hungary. We have
discussed this phenomena so many times that now when he has a hard
time taking a turn or waiting for a turn and I mention that I see
that it is hard to take turns, he says "I'm hungary" and he dis-
engages and comes for something to eat. Then he is more patient, just
as I am when I am not tired or hungary myself. We never use any type
of punishment. I do explain though that people do not want to play if
they can't have a turn. We wants to play. He is learning to enjoy
watching someone else take a turn. It is a progression I want to
facilitate and not let him flounder alone.
Pat
information. I don't want him to do things to other people that they
do not want done to them. I explain that the other person is
intimidated and feels threatened (assuming the child has conveyed a
desire for the behavior to stop). I give my son the cues to look for
such as the child is running away and screaming stop, or crying, etc.
I do not hover, nor do I "let him go" without information any more
than I would if we were in a place where physical things could be
damaged. I think that it is damaging to a child to have no one
advocate for them when they clearly are wanting something to stop. I
believe that I am complicit in the damage if I do not dissent. Just
as when a child is crying for a parent to stop doing something to
them, I try to empathize with the child.
This is one of my hot buttons, because I WAS the child, and I had no
advocate. I do speak up for the child to be heard. I don't believe
that anyone has a right to do anything to anyone that they don't want
done to them. My son knows I feel this way, sometimes he does
continue. So, I try to empower the other child to see that they can
choose to use their words to tell my son to stop, they can leave,
they can ask their parent or other adult for help.
Similarly, I empower my son to use his words to ask someone to stop
doing something to him that he doesn't want done. He knows he can
tell me to stop. I do. His body is his to control. But I do give him
my opinion, and strongly when he is doing something to someone
against their will. If it is physically hurtful, I remove him. I can
not remember when this may have happened last, before he understood
that some of his behavior could inflict pain probably. I don't know
that there is any benefit to giving my opinion strongly, perhaps even
a disadvantage, but I am emphatic about people's rights to their body.
Giving him information is the key. He can't read minds and we are all
slower at picking up social cues when we are busy, hungary or tired.
We do discuss taking turns and sharing before going to places that
this is likely to be an issue. We discuss that it is hard to take
turns and find fun things to do when we are tired or hungary. We have
discussed this phenomena so many times that now when he has a hard
time taking a turn or waiting for a turn and I mention that I see
that it is hard to take turns, he says "I'm hungary" and he dis-
engages and comes for something to eat. Then he is more patient, just
as I am when I am not tired or hungary myself. We never use any type
of punishment. I do explain though that people do not want to play if
they can't have a turn. We wants to play. He is learning to enjoy
watching someone else take a turn. It is a progression I want to
facilitate and not let him flounder alone.
Pat
--- In [email protected], Mattamandab@a... wrote:
> I've been thinking about a recent comment and this thread.
> Unschoolers may not tend to "ignore" their children's behavior at
the park
> more than other hsers- but maybe they have come to unschooling
because their
> children are very active, spirited, whatever you want to call it,
so unschooling
> is what works best with their children and their learning styles.
(kind of
> like what came first the chicken or the egg?)
>
> My son (age 4) is very "spirited" I'd call him, and did not play
well with
> many of the other kids we used to play with. When he was about 2
1/2 we stopped
> going to planned activities and play groups and tried just playing
at home,
> and interacting with other children in limited setting like
playgrounds and the
> library. As he's gotten older, we've been able to attend more
playgroup type
> activities and playground days.
>
> He's still very active and loud, sometimes other children are put
off by his
> behavior (growling and roaring at them in play). Some days we have
to leave,
> not very often anymore. But I give him a wide latitude about what
behaviors
> are ok, and which I need to stop immediately. Many other parents
would not
> let their kids do some of the things he does at the park (for
example- roar and
> play dinosaur while playing chase, other kids don't always like
it), but if we
> left everytime he did that, he would never get out of the house.
>
> If no one is getting hurt or in danger, I try to let him go. I
think all
> kids need to learn to play without their parent's hovering over
them. When he
> was 2 (he's very big for his age) and would push kids down or run
into them, I
> did have to stand right over him when he was near other kids (so
much for
> parent's getting to interact with adults, huh?). But now he
doesn't need that so I
> can step back a bit. Obviously if things start to get too rough, I
do
> intervene.
>
> Also, he's getting much better and needs the practice of
interactions. He's
> started to talk to other kids alot more during play, and realize
when people
> don't want to play with him because of how he's acted. It's nice
to see him
> begin to make friends and be able to go to a playground and play
nicely with
> kids he's just met.
>
> I also have a daughter age 1 who he plays with very well. We may
or may not
> have any more children. It depends on how things go in the next
year or so.
> Right now my hands are full with these 2. But I can't imagine
trying to
> "teach" my children like school at home. I used to be a special ed
teacher.
> Unschooling sounds the way to go!
> Just my (well more than) 2 cents.
> Amanda
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/2004 5:06:38 PM Central Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:
This is one of my hot buttons, because I WAS the child, and I had no
advocate. I do speak up for the child to be heard. I don't believe
that anyone has a right to do anything to anyone that they don't want
done to them. My son knows I feel this way, sometimes he does
continue. So, I try to empower the other child to see that they can
choose to use their words to tell my son to stop, they can leave,
they can ask their parent or other adult for help
~~~
This is one of the few principles we use that readily boils down to a rule.
I rarely have to enforce it with my own children, but when there are lots of
kids here I usually have to reiterate. We usually say something like, "No
means no. If someone wants you to stop doing something to them, you stop.
Anyone has the right to say "no" about their body."
There are so many implications and applications to this principle. From an
unwanted kiss on the cheek (all of my son have been known to want to plant
kisses on their friends without consent) to molestation to outright bullying.
Learning to follow the principle, and applying it to your own body, can put a
stop to all of them. I think it's my responsibility for my sons to learn
that 'no means no'.
For some reason it is a really hard idea to grasp for the kids I know (not
my kids). I guess mostly because they're not raised to have respect for their
bodies. I have seen the idea light up in some kids when they realize they
can stop people from touching *them*, too, at least when they're at our house.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scubamama@... writes:
This is one of my hot buttons, because I WAS the child, and I had no
advocate. I do speak up for the child to be heard. I don't believe
that anyone has a right to do anything to anyone that they don't want
done to them. My son knows I feel this way, sometimes he does
continue. So, I try to empower the other child to see that they can
choose to use their words to tell my son to stop, they can leave,
they can ask their parent or other adult for help
~~~
This is one of the few principles we use that readily boils down to a rule.
I rarely have to enforce it with my own children, but when there are lots of
kids here I usually have to reiterate. We usually say something like, "No
means no. If someone wants you to stop doing something to them, you stop.
Anyone has the right to say "no" about their body."
There are so many implications and applications to this principle. From an
unwanted kiss on the cheek (all of my son have been known to want to plant
kisses on their friends without consent) to molestation to outright bullying.
Learning to follow the principle, and applying it to your own body, can put a
stop to all of them. I think it's my responsibility for my sons to learn
that 'no means no'.
For some reason it is a really hard idea to grasp for the kids I know (not
my kids). I guess mostly because they're not raised to have respect for their
bodies. I have seen the idea light up in some kids when they realize they
can stop people from touching *them*, too, at least when they're at our house.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], Tuckervill@a... wrote:
This was a big issue with a (former) neighbor, who's 9. He has very
controling parents and he assumed that he could do things to my kids.
Not mean things, but if I said it was time to go, he'd try to carry
one of the kids to the door. Or strap Mikey in his car seat. But
Mikey is really sensitive to having people touch him sometimes. The
neighbor learned to ask "Can I strap you in now?" etc. I mean, Mikey
was going to get strapped in, but it never occured to him that the
_way_ you did it could have such an effect on how happy or upset
Mikey was. And that it mattered!
Then they moved. After only 2 weeks away, he came by and drove both
kids nuts trying to control them.
Other kids like to pick Caroline up and put her in the wagon or
something and look at me when she fusses. "Well, if she says no, put
her down." Confusion, but then, yeh, the light comes on.
--aj, "corrupting" one neighbor child at a time, heh, heh, heh
> For some reason it is a really hard idea to grasp for the kids Iknow (not
> my kids). I guess mostly because they're not raised to haverespect for their
> bodies. I have seen the idea light up in some kids when theyrealize they
> can stop people from touching *them*, too, at least when they're atour house.
This was a big issue with a (former) neighbor, who's 9. He has very
controling parents and he assumed that he could do things to my kids.
Not mean things, but if I said it was time to go, he'd try to carry
one of the kids to the door. Or strap Mikey in his car seat. But
Mikey is really sensitive to having people touch him sometimes. The
neighbor learned to ask "Can I strap you in now?" etc. I mean, Mikey
was going to get strapped in, but it never occured to him that the
_way_ you did it could have such an effect on how happy or upset
Mikey was. And that it mattered!
Then they moved. After only 2 weeks away, he came by and drove both
kids nuts trying to control them.
Other kids like to pick Caroline up and put her in the wagon or
something and look at me when she fusses. "Well, if she says no, put
her down." Confusion, but then, yeh, the light comes on.
--aj, "corrupting" one neighbor child at a time, heh, heh, heh
earthmothergypsy
aj wrote:
My kids are the same way. :)
The *way* something is done or handled can make all the difference in
the world. It can create a good outcome or a bad one. So our
families had a crash course in how to do things in a way that didn't
cause an "explosive/uncooperative" reaction in the kids.
~A
>but it never occured to him that the _way_ you did it could havesuch an effect on how happy or upset he was.>
My kids are the same way. :)
The *way* something is done or handled can make all the difference in
the world. It can create a good outcome or a bad one. So our
families had a crash course in how to do things in a way that didn't
cause an "explosive/uncooperative" reaction in the kids.
~A