Millie Rosa

I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on boundaries. And I need some help on this issue. Will is quite opinionated and "bosses" me around. I am not sure where this has come from, as I do not "boss" him in any way...that is, I do not tell him what to do, what not to do, etc. He is totally free and even more so since I have come to this list. But before that even, I have never restricted him at all. Yet he is saying to me "No don't sit in the chair, Mama, sit on the floor," (fine, I sit on the floor), "No, Mama, don't sew, DON"T SEW," (okay, maybe I have been wrapped up in this project, I'll go play w him), "Don't take a shower." (well, I need to get clean!), "Don't check you e-mail," (fine, it'll wait), and even "No, Mama, don't eat cereal." (Baby, I'm hungry...) If I say to him that I am hungry and I keep eating he proceeds to stand there and scream. It is not that he wants me to play w him or whatever, we have playing together all morning, but that he wants to
tell me what to do and don't do. I don't like to hear him pissed and upset, screaming or crying, and normally I do all I can do help him get happy, but this has been going on for a while now and I AM doing what he tells me to do or not doing what he tells me not to do, and I know that isn't right. But I hate for him to be upset, especially if it is because of me, but my goodness, I need to eat and shower....

Like I said I can't figure out where he has learned this type of behavior as he has not been bossed around in his life....but I would like some help on setting some boundaries. Would you suggest being hard in this regard, like, "Mama is hungry, I am eating, I'll share mine w you or get you something if you want to eat, too, but I am eating," and then just sit there and let him scream and cry? I have never let him cry and it doesn't feel right. Or should I continue to give in and let him tell me what to do...and hopefully it will pass? I have always modeled kindness, consideration...and he IS exhibiting these traits in OTHER areas... I don't like being demanded to do anything, and that is a BIG reason why I have chosen to never make demands of him...wish he would return the favor!

Thanks,

Millie




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Jul 13, 2004, at 1:15 AM, Millie Rosa wrote:

> I don't like being demanded to do anything, and that is a BIG reason
> why I have chosen to never make demands of him...wish he would return
> the favor!
>

Have you read about "joyful disruptions?" This might be a good use of
that kind of response - or at least something verbally imaginative.

For example, he says, "No, don't eat cereal," and you say, "It isn't
cereal - I'm eating a big bowl of juicy fat WORMS. YUM YUM YUM." He
says, "Mommy, don't take a shower," and you say, "Well, if I don't
we're going to be able to plant seeds all over my skin, I'll be so
dirty, and then the seeds will grow into plants and I will be a walking
forest." Etc.

Could work - having a sense of humor really helps a lot with parenting.
You just have to be careful that it doesn't come across as teasing or
making fun of him.

Otherwise, I'll be listening to other responses, because I also do not
at ALL handle it well when I feel like somebody is ordering me around.
It pushes all my buttons, too. I'm sure there will be others here with
some great insight and we'll both learning something!

-pam

National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese

Hi, Millie,

I think there are a couple of things going on at this stage - which both of
my chileren went through - my son is still figuring it out. With the things
that take your attention away from him, I think he's just wanting your
attention all the time and doesn't have the skills to make polite requests
yet. So you'd probably like him to say "Mama, could you put your sewing
down, please? I'd really like to play with you." And he will learn that
from your example when you want him to stop doing something and pay
attention to you, and from your possibly asking him to say it differently if
you wish. But our experience is that takes a while - I'm still reminding my
3 1/2 yr old to do this, but he's a lot better than he used to be. A key to
my own stress is to reframe what he's said in my mind. So when my son (who
still does this) says "Mama, don't take a shower!" I hear it as "Mama, I so
love to play with you and be with you that the idea of being apart from you
in the shower makes me really sad"...and sometimes I reflect this back to
him to remind us that's what it's all about with "Nicky, do you not want to
be apart from mama. Is that hard?" Sometimes I just put off the shower,
try to do it when he is distracted by a video or playing well with his
sister for company. Sometimes I ask him when would be a good time for him
to have me do it since Mama is so stinky and wants to get clean and we can
agree on a good time for both of us. That type of thing.

The thing where he tells you not to eat cereal I perceive as kids learning
boundaries as they grow. My son for instance, still thinks of my body as
one with his in many ways. He'll give me orders about my body. When I say
"Nicky, that's mama's body and I decide about my body. This is Nicky's body
and Nicky decides about his body" he'll often reply "No, that (pointing to
MY body) is Nicky's body!" Well, when you think about it, we did in fact
start out as one when he was in the womb. He grew as a part of me and we
were the same body. Makes sense to me that the separating and the figuring
out of boundaries might take some time, especially since we are extended
breastfeeding. So he doesn't want me to eat food that HE doesn't like etc.
I pretty much take it in stride and try to accomodate him while reminding
him about his body and my body. If it's going to really drive him to tears
to see me eat something he doesn't like one day, I'll just eat something
else. Obviously if he doesnt' want me to eat at all (which has happened),
I'm going to explain I have to eat and try to find some way he can
contribute to my eating that helps him feel good about it. Like helping me
make toast or something.

It is sort of a tricky thing and it's hard not to perceive it as ordering us
around, but I think there are other messages underneath!

Joan


<<<<I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on boundaries. And
I need some help on this issue. Will is quite opinionated and "bosses" me
around. I am not sure where this has come from, as I do not "boss" him in
any way...that is, I do not tell him what to do, what not to do, etc. He is
totally free and even more so since I have come to this list. But before
that even, I have never restricted him at all. Yet he is saying to me "No
don't sit in the chair, Mama, sit on the floor," (fine, I sit on the floor),
"No, Mama, don't sew, DON"T SEW," (okay, maybe I have been wrapped up in
this project, I'll go play w him), "Don't take a shower." (well, I need to
get clean!), "Don't check you e-mail," (fine, it'll wait), and even "No,
Mama, don't eat cereal." (Baby, I'm hungry...) If I say to him that I am
hungry and I keep eating he proceeds to stand there and scream. It is not
that he wants me to play w him or whatever, we have playing together all
morning, but that he wants to
tell me what to do and don't do. I don't like to hear him pissed and
upset, screaming or crying, and normally I do all I can do help him get
happy, but this has been going on for a while now and I AM doing what he
tells me to do or not doing what he tells me not to do, and I know that
isn't right. But I hate for him to be upset, especially if it is because of
me, but my goodness, I need to eat and shower....>>>>

Ren

"Yet he is saying to me "No
don't sit in the chair, Mama, sit on the floor," (fine, I sit on the
floor), "No, Mama, don't sew, DON"T SEW," (okay, maybe I have
been wrapped up in this project, I'll go play w him), "Don't take a
shower." (well, I need to get clean!), "Don't check you e-mail,"
(fine, it'll wait), and even "No, Mama, don't eat cereal." (Baby, I'm
hungry...)"

I wouldn't handle it very well I'm afraid!:) I don't like being bossed around at all...but he's so very little too.
I really love Pam's suggestion about slipping humor into the situation.
A little distraction might help also, "I'm really hungry right now, so I'm going to finish this and then we can play, here's a ___________ "(good tv show, sink full of water, shaving cream on table...whatever gives him a little fun while he's waiting)

When my kids have used a bossy tone with me I might say something like "I really don't like being talked to in that manner, could you try it a different way?" or simply tell them a couple of other ways they could have said the same thing, without being so aggressive.
They usually don't even realize how it's coming across.

Ren

Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

Ren Allen

"Makes sense to me that the separating and the figuring
out of boundaries might take some time, especially since we are
extended
breastfeeding."

Yes.
Jalen has recently figured out that his "na-na's" are actually
MINE.:)
He points to my breasts now and says "Yours Na-na's Mom? No my Na-
na's?"
So sweet.

Ren

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
>
> I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on
boundaries. And I need some help on this issue. Will is quite
opinionated and "bosses" me around.

Does this happen all the time, or esp. at certain times, like when
he's tired, or you've been busy not paying 100% attention to him, or
any other time?

oops, more later, sad toddler here!

[email protected]

Millie,
As Joan said.... "My son for instance, still thinks of my body as
one with his in many ways." I really think that no matter how much freedom we give our kids, they are still little people in a big world, and there are so many things they can't control...they are learning about what those things are (including you!). IME, being "bossy" at this stage is not something they learn (although it is easy to assume that, since so many kids are bossed), I think it's a combination of temperment and developmental stage/cognitive processing. It's tough though, because I know that I felt that I was doing something wrong or treating DD badly because of the way she would talk to me and other adults (rarely other kids, FYI).
I also try not to use the term bossy when I'm talking to her or other adults (or when I'm thinking about it), but rather "Wow, she really knows what she wants!"
Joan's comments about humor are great. I'd also add, what works for us...humor combined with logical consequences and a clear/non guilt tripping expression of needs. "I would *love* to play Wizard of Oz with you now, honey, but my body is *so* hungry that I wouldn't be able to concentrate on the game or really enjoy spending time with you. I'd be sitting there thinking 'food food food food (in a silly voice), instead of remembering the words to your songs that you like so much. It's important to me to give you my full attention so we can both have fun." Here I stop talking, and Bethan (3.25) usually says something like "I have a *great* idea, why don't *you* eat something, and *then* come play Wizarder of Ozzer with me!!" If she doesn't come up with that solution herself, or continues to press, I either offer that as a solution "Are you willing to..." or I encourage her to come up with other ideas "Can you figure out a way that I can eat and we can play the game at the same time." It's lovely to see what wonderful ideas she comes up that are "thinking outside the box" and get both of our needs met.
In the past, I've said things to her like "You wish mommy would do exactly what you want me to, exactly the *way* you want me to, just like Joanie (her doll) does. But I'm not like Joanie, because I have feelings and sometimes I need to do things differently from the way you want me to. I sometimes wish everybody would do exactly what *I* wanted them to, but then just think how boring the world would be! (and then I do some silly skit where everbody does what I want, and wackiness ensues).
This is a tough issue, one that DH is working on. He does things like "Bethan, is it okay if I go to the bathroom?" And she says...'No! Play with me!"...He'll then look at me as if to say "Okay, what do I do now? I gotta pee!" LOL. It's a journey.
Jen
--
"Out there things can happen and
frequently do
to people as brainy and footsy as
you."


-------------- Original message --------------

> Hi, Millie,
>
> I think there are a couple of things going on at this stage - which both of
> my chileren went through - my son is still figuring it out. With the things
> that take your attention away from him, I think he's just wanting your
> attention all the time and doesn't have the skills to make polite requests
> yet. So you'd probably like him to say "Mama, could you put your sewing
> down, please? I'd really like to play with you." And he will learn that
> from your example when you want him to stop doing something and pay
> attention to you, and from your possibly asking him to say it differently if
> you wish. But our experience is that takes a while - I'm still reminding my
> 3 1/2 yr old to do this, but he's a lot better than he used to be. A key to
> my own stress is to reframe what he's said in my mind. So when my son (who
> still does this) says "Mama, don't take a shower!" I hear it as "Mama, I so
> love to play with you and be with you that the idea of being apart from you
> in the shower makes me really sad"...and sometimes I reflect this back to
> him to remind us that's what it's all about with "Nicky, do you not want to
> be apart from mama. Is that hard?" Sometimes I just put off the shower,
> try to do it when he is distracted by a video or playing well with his
> sister for company. Sometimes I ask him when would be a good time for him
> to have me do it since Mama is so stinky and wants to get clean and we can
> agree on a good time for both of us. That type of thing.
>
> The thing where he tells you not to eat cereal I perceive as kids learning
> boundaries as they grow. My son for instance, still thinks of my body as
> one with his in many ways. He'll give me orders about my body. When I say
> "Nicky, that's mama's body and I decide about my body. This is Nicky's body
> and Nicky decides about his body" he'll often reply "No, that (pointing to
> MY body) is Nicky's body!" Well, when you think about it, we did in fact
> start out as one when he was in the womb. He grew as a part of me and we
> were the same body. Makes sense to me that the separating and the figuring
> out of boundaries might take some time, especially since we are extended
> breastfeeding. So he doesn't want me to eat food that HE doesn't like etc.
> I pretty much take it in stride and try to accomodate him while reminding
> him about his body and my body. If it's going to really drive him to tears
> to see me eat something he doesn't like one day, I'll just eat something
> else. Obviously if he doesnt' want me to eat at all (which has happened),
> I'm going to explain I have to eat and try to find some way he can
> contribute to my eating that helps him feel good about it. Like helping me
> make toast or something.
>
> It is sort of a tricky thing and it's hard not to perceive it as ordering us
> around, but I think there are other messages underneath!
>
> Joan
>
>
> <<<> I need some help on this issue. Will is quite opinionated and "bosses" me
> around. I am not sure where this has come from, as I do not "boss" him in
> any way...that is, I do not tell him what to do, what not to do, etc. He is
> totally free and even more so since I have come to this list. But before
> that even, I have never restricted him at all. Yet he is saying to me "No
> don't sit in the chair, Mama, sit on the floor," (fine, I sit on the floor),
> "No, Mama, don't sew, DON"T SEW," (okay, maybe I have been wrapped up in
> this project, I'll go play w him), "Don't take a shower." (well, I need to
> get clean!), "Don't check you e-mail," (fine, it'll wait), and even "No,
> Mama, don't eat cereal." (Baby, I'm hungry...) If I say to him that I am
> hungry and I keep eating he proceeds to stand there and scream. It is not
> that he wants me to play w him or whatever, we have playing together all
> morning, but that he wants to
> tell me what to do and don't do. I don't like to hear him pissed and
> upset, screaming or crying, and normally I do all I can do help him get
> happy, but this has been going on for a while now and I AM doing what he
> tells me to do or not doing what he tells me not to do, and I know that
> isn't right. But I hate for him to be upset, especially if it is because of
> me, but my goodness, I need to eat and shower....>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Millie Rosa

> Yes.
> Jalen has recently figured out that his "na-na's" are actually
> MINE.:)
> He points to my breasts now and says "Yours Na-na's Mom? No my Na-
> na's?"
> So sweet.
>
> Ren

Oh, that IS so sweet. Will still thinks they are his...he actually
said to me once "Go away, Mama, I'm nursing." (I think he meant for
me not to talk to him while he was busy!) LOL
He calls them "Dees" (I think he is saying "these") and when he was a
little younger and he wanted to switch he would say "2 dees," and
when he drank all the milk sometimes he would start grabbing under my
armpit and say "3 dees." That made me laugh every time!

mamaaj2000

Happily eating toddler here now!

Sometimes it helps Mikey (3.5) and Caroline (1.5) if I help them name
their feelings. So I told Mikey Sunday that I was going out by myself
and he said "No, Mommy don't go." I said "Are you sad that I'm
leaving? Are you going to miss me?" He says yes. I say that I'm going
to miss him too and we'll both be sad when I leave, but I bet we're
both going to have fun after that (leaving him room to say "no, I
won't have fun!).

Caroline often stops crying instantly if you say what she's mad or
sad about. "Oh, you're mad that Grandmom had to get off the phone and
you can't talk to her any more." "Mmm-hmmm." Dh _totally_ didn't
believe that would work until he saw it!

So Millie, maybe taking a guess at what Will's feeling might help.
It's frustrating that you have to wait til Mommy's shower is over...

It's tough not being able to control what other people do and when
they do it! I had that issue when I managed people, lol. I used to
joke that I'd watched too much Star Trek and longed to just say "Make
it so!" without discussion!!

; - )

--aj

--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
> <willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on
> boundaries. And I need some help on this issue. Will is quite
> opinionated and "bosses" me around.
>
> Does this happen all the time, or esp. at certain times, like when
> he's tired, or you've been busy not paying 100% attention to him,
or
> any other time?
>
> oops, more later, sad toddler here!

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/13/2004 11:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mamaaj2000@... writes:

Happily eating toddler here now!



<<<<

WHO'S happily eating a toddler??

~Kelly <g>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Millie Rosa

--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
> <willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on
> boundaries. And I need some help on this issue. Will is quite
> opinionated and "bosses" me around.
>
> Does this happen all the time, or esp. at certain times, like when
> he's tired, or you've been busy not paying 100% attention to him,
or
> any other time?
>
> oops, more later, sad toddler here!

Not certain times especially...I mean, if I get involved in a project
or cleaning or something that doesn't involve him he is going to
protest for sure, but no, this is an in general thing. He is just
trying to be the boss of me! He tells me to vaccuum, to wear a skirt
(I almost always wear long skirts, but if I put on pants he tells me
to take them off..."Mama's aposta wear skirts," pretty much all the
time these days he's telling me what to do. Lots of times he asks
nicely and has even picked up please, and especially "Please don't"
which I much prefer to being yelled at. This morning it was "No,
Mama, please don't poop in the potty, PLEASE DON'T" It's gotta be
some kind of developmental thing or phase, whatever. His name, Will,
fits him...makes me think of this sig line...
Millie
gently raising strong Will

Deb Lewis

***Happily eating toddler here now!***


***WHO'S happily eating a toddler??***

Well, you'll need hot sauce with that.


Deb Lewis,

Deb Lewis

***"Go away, Mama, I'm nursing." ***

When Dylan was crabby and wanted some comfort he'd climb up on my lap and
say "Give me that stinking nursing!"

Then, later he would pat me and say "nice nursing mama, thank you."

Lovey babies. <sigh>


Deb Lewis

Ren Allen

"It's frustrating that you have to wait til Mommy's shower is over.."

Well heck, he could just come into the shower with you. I rarely get
to shower alone.:)

Ren

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/13/2004 11:59:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
willsmamamillie@... writes:

Lots of times he asks
nicely and has even picked up please, and especially "Please don't"
which I much prefer to being yelled at. This morning it was "No,
Mama, please don't poop in the potty, PLEASE DON'T"


<<<<

LOL

Duncan went through a long phase of being delightfully polite. When he
interrupted, he'd say, "Excuse me, please." Adults would just GUSH over this and
say, "Oh, he's sooo polite."

Right.

But when you didn't stop talking immediately, he'd say again, "Excuse me."

Keep talking, and it became, "EXCUUUUUSE MMEEEEEEEE, PLEEEEEEAAAAASE!"

Folks around here started to listen up pretty quickly! <G>

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

christy_imnotred

--- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
<willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
>
> I appreciated Ren's post, and Robyn's clarification, on
boundaries. And I need some help on this issue. Will is quite
opinionated and "bosses" me around.

How old is Will? I think this is a common stage for kids around 3.
My son was pretty bossy for awhile and would get really upset if we
didn't do exactly what he said. Reading "Playful Parenting" by
Lawrence Cohen really helped me understand what was going on and good
ways to respond to it. Humor helps a lot!

Christy

Jennifer Altenbach

<<<Oh, that IS so sweet. Will still thinks they are his...he actually
said to me once "Go away, Mama, I'm nursing." >>>

ROFL!!! Millie, that is hilarious! I'm telling everyone I know about
that.

Jenny




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

surpeti

> > --- In [email protected], Millie Rosa
> > <willsmamamillie@y...> wrote:
I mean, if I get involved in a project
> or cleaning or something that doesn't involve him he is going to
> protest for sure, but no, this is an in general thing. He is just
> trying to be the boss of me! He tells me to vaccuum, to wear a
skirt
> (I almost always wear long skirts, but if I put on pants he tells
me
> to take them off..."Mama's aposta wear skirts," pretty much all
the
> time these days he's telling me what to do. Lots of times he asks
> nicely and has even picked up please, and especially "Please don't"
> which I much prefer to being yelled at. This morning it was "No,
> Mama, please don't poop in the potty, PLEASE DON'T" It's gotta be
> some kind of developmental thing or phase, whatever. His name,
Will,
> fits him...makes me think of this sig line...
> Millie
> gently raising strong Will

Lately when Kyle (4.5 yo) won't "let" me eat, etc., I just, without
missing a beat, incorporate it into our play. Example: we are
playing dinosaurs, I have a hunger attack, he protests, I say, "okay
I am T. rex and this toast is an apatasaurus leg. Ummm, yumm!"
(appropriate dramatic tearing off a bite of toast) Or, if I feel I
need to fold clothes (for some weird reason): "I am an oviraptor and
there could be some eggs under one of these piles of leaves--I'm
going to look under all of them." (while quickly folding as I look).
I guess I have also said things like "I am T. rex and WE always go to
this special bush to pee" (if I need to go to the bathroom).

It ASTONISHES me how easy this is for us. If I reframe it this way,
he happily says okay to THE VERY THING he was just protesting about.

HTH.
Andrea S. (how can there be so many Andreas on this list???)

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "surpeti" <BillAndrea@a...>
wrote:
Or, if I feel I
> need to fold clothes (for some weird reason): "I am an oviraptor
and
> there could be some eggs under one of these piles of leaves--I'm
> going to look under all of them." (while quickly folding as I
look).

I love your sense of humor!

> HTH.
> Andrea S. (how can there be so many Andreas on this list???)

At least I go by AJ!

--aj, who is also Andrea S!!