Good Sources for Evolution...
Sandy
DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs" issue
and we're both interested in finding out more information about
evolution. Funny, his questions are so logical but I do not know very
much about evolution at all. I don't want to get any material that
will bore him away from the subject because he is sincerely
interested. We both get that viruses and bacteria evolve and things
like that but how random selection works as far as an animal changing
to where it doesn't "need" it's legs or anything like that...we're
completely clueless as to how evolution of that magnitude occurs
regardless of billions of years.
IMO, evolution has it's holes to but at the same time, I do not know
enough to make an informed opinion one way or the other.
Thanks
Sandy
and we're both interested in finding out more information about
evolution. Funny, his questions are so logical but I do not know very
much about evolution at all. I don't want to get any material that
will bore him away from the subject because he is sincerely
interested. We both get that viruses and bacteria evolve and things
like that but how random selection works as far as an animal changing
to where it doesn't "need" it's legs or anything like that...we're
completely clueless as to how evolution of that magnitude occurs
regardless of billions of years.
IMO, evolution has it's holes to but at the same time, I do not know
enough to make an informed opinion one way or the other.
Thanks
Sandy
Joanne
Funny you should post this...my 8 year old just told me something
the other day about doplhins possibly having had legs at one time.
I just asked her and she said she read it in the Magic Tree House
resource guide for their Dophins books.
Hope this helps!
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], "Sandy"
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
the other day about doplhins possibly having had legs at one time.
I just asked her and she said she read it in the Magic Tree House
resource guide for their Dophins books.
Hope this helps!
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (8), Shawna (11) & Cimion (14)
Adopted into our hearts October 2003
************************************
Unschooling Voices ~ Add Your Voice
www.foreverparents.com/UnschoolingVoices.html
--- In [email protected], "Sandy"
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
>issue
> DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs"
> and we're both interested in finding out more information aboutvery
> evolution. Funny, his questions are so logical but I do not know
> much about evolution at all. I don't want to get any material thatthings
> will bore him away from the subject because he is sincerely
> interested. We both get that viruses and bacteria evolve and
> like that but how random selection works as far as an animalchanging
> to where it doesn't "need" it's legs or anything like that...we'reknow
> completely clueless as to how evolution of that magnitude occurs
> regardless of billions of years.
>
> IMO, evolution has it's holes to but at the same time, I do not
> enough to make an informed opinion one way or the other.
>
> Thanks
> Sandy
>
Schuyler
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/link/evolution.html is a site that came up when I did a google search for evolution in action. I played the game briefly, but I must admit to being distracted by hunger. Maybe I'll try again after lunch. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/310/5756/1878 is the magazine Science's evolution in action page. There is a review of discoveries in 2005 that add to the evolutionary understanding of the world. They also have a video summarizing the breakthroughs: http://www.biocompare.com/console/science/console.asp?type=wmv56 . And there is a collection of articles here (http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/index.html) that may have something of interest for you.
Evolution is everywhere. Having a background in evolutionary science it is hard to know where to suggest you could go to examine the precepts. The Beak of the Finch is good as it underscores the ideas of island biogeography and speciation and shows where Darwin had his "AHA" moment. Actually, I just read Skellig by David Almond which is a weird mix of science with an angel in this boy's garage. Evolution is very present in the book with talk about pneumatic bones in birds and humans evolving from/with apes. But it probably isn't a book that will explain evolution.
Evolution does and should have holes. It isn't faith. It's science. But the basis, the theory, is sound.
There is a sort of an arms race theory of evolution (actually Matt Ridley has some great books on evolution, my favorite is the Red Queen (which I am sure is out of date now), the Red Queen is the classic literary image for the arms race between predator and prey as she runs and runs as fast as she can and never gets anywhere), where those subtle mutations that give an individual a survival advantage over its peers are selected for. Apparently in Europe there is a 10% resistance to HIV that is not known to exist in other populations. Some folks from Liverpool University have linked it to the Black Death, which may have been an ebola-type disease instead of bubonic plague. If you didn't get killed during the plague your descendents should inherit whatever kept you from being killed. And with a disease that wiped out so many people, your genes will play a bigger role in the genetic future. That is because there are fewer people your children will be more of the population than they would have been without the plague clearing the playing field.
A lot of traits are simply markers of genetic health. Things like a peacock's tail. There is no individual gain to having a tail like that. It makes you more likely to be eaten and it makes it harder to fly. But, for peahens it is a shortcut to seeing how healthy a male is. And in a reproductive system where males do no parental care, it is good to be able to see how genetically healthy the male is before committing to having his kids. And in reproductive systems where males do a lot of parental care, like weaver birds, it is nice to see their nest before you commit to laying your eggs in it.
Anyhow, I can probably answer more specific questions if you want.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
Evolution is everywhere. Having a background in evolutionary science it is hard to know where to suggest you could go to examine the precepts. The Beak of the Finch is good as it underscores the ideas of island biogeography and speciation and shows where Darwin had his "AHA" moment. Actually, I just read Skellig by David Almond which is a weird mix of science with an angel in this boy's garage. Evolution is very present in the book with talk about pneumatic bones in birds and humans evolving from/with apes. But it probably isn't a book that will explain evolution.
Evolution does and should have holes. It isn't faith. It's science. But the basis, the theory, is sound.
There is a sort of an arms race theory of evolution (actually Matt Ridley has some great books on evolution, my favorite is the Red Queen (which I am sure is out of date now), the Red Queen is the classic literary image for the arms race between predator and prey as she runs and runs as fast as she can and never gets anywhere), where those subtle mutations that give an individual a survival advantage over its peers are selected for. Apparently in Europe there is a 10% resistance to HIV that is not known to exist in other populations. Some folks from Liverpool University have linked it to the Black Death, which may have been an ebola-type disease instead of bubonic plague. If you didn't get killed during the plague your descendents should inherit whatever kept you from being killed. And with a disease that wiped out so many people, your genes will play a bigger role in the genetic future. That is because there are fewer people your children will be more of the population than they would have been without the plague clearing the playing field.
A lot of traits are simply markers of genetic health. Things like a peacock's tail. There is no individual gain to having a tail like that. It makes you more likely to be eaten and it makes it harder to fly. But, for peahens it is a shortcut to seeing how healthy a male is. And in a reproductive system where males do no parental care, it is good to be able to see how genetically healthy the male is before committing to having his kids. And in reproductive systems where males do a lot of parental care, like weaver birds, it is nice to see their nest before you commit to laying your eggs in it.
Anyhow, I can probably answer more specific questions if you want.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Good Sources for Evolution...
DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs" issue
and we're both interested in finding out more information about
evolution. Funny, his questions are so logical but I do not know very
much about evolution at all. I don't want to get any material that
will bore him away from the subject because he is sincerely
interested. We both get that viruses and bacteria evolve and things
like that but how random selection works as far as an animal changing
to where it doesn't "need" it's legs or anything like that...we're
completely clueless as to how evolution of that magnitude occurs
regardless of billions of years.
IMO, evolution has it's holes to but at the same time, I do not know
enough to make an informed opinion one way or the other.
Thanks
Sandy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 7, 2006, at 7:27 AM, Sandy wrote:
*precursors* of dolphins had legs.
From our limited vantage point it looks like all creatures have
reached their final form and all that came before was building
towards the specific set of creatures we have now.
But what exists now -- and what has always existed -- are creatures
trying to survive in whatever environment they find themselves in.
When the environment changes it favors different offspring. Every
time there's a change, the creatures that live to pass on their genes
are -- compared to the pool of creatures that existed a few
generations before them -- slightly different, slightly better at
surviving the current conditions.
But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now.
If all the creatures that were ancestors of dolphins and all the
creatures that will be descendants of dolphins are thought of as like
the light spectrum --
(In case it's been a while ;-) there's one here: http://tinyurl.com/
yxox3k)
-- the creature we call a dolphin could be considered equivalent to a
color, say green. You could move your finger slightly to either side
of what you'd identified as green and still call it green. But
eventually you'll reach colors that are taking on other aspects and
as you move further away, they become maybe green, and almost green
and greenish until it eventually reaches some other color, either
blue or yellow.
No matter how far you move, there's never a green with legs ;-) But
there is blue and blue that takes on more and more aspects of what
you'll eventually call green. But all along the way the colors are
legitimate colors for where they are on the spectrum, some of which
we have names for: teal, turquoise, blue green, just as we have names
for some of the creatures that preceded (and hopefully will have
names for some that follow). But those colors aren't striving to be
blue or green any more than the other creatures were trying to get to
dolphinness. They're just what they are and need to be for the
current frequency/environment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs" issueIt might make it easier to grasp it if you think of it as the
*precursors* of dolphins had legs.
From our limited vantage point it looks like all creatures have
reached their final form and all that came before was building
towards the specific set of creatures we have now.
But what exists now -- and what has always existed -- are creatures
trying to survive in whatever environment they find themselves in.
When the environment changes it favors different offspring. Every
time there's a change, the creatures that live to pass on their genes
are -- compared to the pool of creatures that existed a few
generations before them -- slightly different, slightly better at
surviving the current conditions.
But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now.
If all the creatures that were ancestors of dolphins and all the
creatures that will be descendants of dolphins are thought of as like
the light spectrum --
(In case it's been a while ;-) there's one here: http://tinyurl.com/
yxox3k)
-- the creature we call a dolphin could be considered equivalent to a
color, say green. You could move your finger slightly to either side
of what you'd identified as green and still call it green. But
eventually you'll reach colors that are taking on other aspects and
as you move further away, they become maybe green, and almost green
and greenish until it eventually reaches some other color, either
blue or yellow.
No matter how far you move, there's never a green with legs ;-) But
there is blue and blue that takes on more and more aspects of what
you'll eventually call green. But all along the way the colors are
legitimate colors for where they are on the spectrum, some of which
we have names for: teal, turquoise, blue green, just as we have names
for some of the creatures that preceded (and hopefully will have
names for some that follow). But those colors aren't striving to be
blue or green any more than the other creatures were trying to get to
dolphinness. They're just what they are and need to be for the
current frequency/environment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs" issue
and we're both interested in finding out more information about
evolution. ~~
It's SO funny that you posted this today. I was just reading yesterday
about a bottlenose dolphin found recently that has an extra set of
fins that could be leftover appendages from evolution.
Here's the story: http://tinyurl.com/yazwyz
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
and we're both interested in finding out more information about
evolution. ~~
It's SO funny that you posted this today. I was just reading yesterday
about a bottlenose dolphin found recently that has an extra set of
fins that could be leftover appendages from evolution.
Here's the story: http://tinyurl.com/yazwyz
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Schuyler
Joyce,
What a really good way of explaining evolutionary changes. I have a hard time coming up with analogies and am consistently impressed with how well you can describe something.
And this:" But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now." is such an important piece of understanding evolution.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now.
If all the creatures that were ancestors of dolphins and all the
creatures that will be descendants of dolphins are thought of as like
the light spectrum --
(In case it's been a while ;-) there's one here: http://tinyurl.com/
yxox3k)
-- the creature we call a dolphin could be considered equivalent to a
color, say green. You could move your finger slightly to either side
of what you'd identified as green and still call it green. But
eventually you'll reach colors that are taking on other aspects and
as you move further away, they become maybe green, and almost green
and greenish until it eventually reaches some other color, either
blue or yellow.
No matter how far you move, there's never a green with legs ;-) But
there is blue and blue that takes on more and more aspects of what
you'll eventually call green. But all along the way the colors are
legitimate colors for where they are on the spectrum, some of which
we have names for: teal, turquoise, blue green, just as we have names
for some of the creatures that preceded (and hopefully will have
names for some that follow). But those colors aren't striving to be
blue or green any more than the other creatures were trying to get to
dolphinness. They're just what they are and need to be for the
current frequency/environment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What a really good way of explaining evolutionary changes. I have a hard time coming up with analogies and am consistently impressed with how well you can describe something.
And this:" But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now." is such an important piece of understanding evolution.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
But they aren't building towards anything specific. Each generation
is trying to live in the here and now.
If all the creatures that were ancestors of dolphins and all the
creatures that will be descendants of dolphins are thought of as like
the light spectrum --
(In case it's been a while ;-) there's one here: http://tinyurl.com/
yxox3k)
-- the creature we call a dolphin could be considered equivalent to a
color, say green. You could move your finger slightly to either side
of what you'd identified as green and still call it green. But
eventually you'll reach colors that are taking on other aspects and
as you move further away, they become maybe green, and almost green
and greenish until it eventually reaches some other color, either
blue or yellow.
No matter how far you move, there's never a green with legs ;-) But
there is blue and blue that takes on more and more aspects of what
you'll eventually call green. But all along the way the colors are
legitimate colors for where they are on the spectrum, some of which
we have names for: teal, turquoise, blue green, just as we have names
for some of the creatures that preceded (and hopefully will have
names for some that follow). But those colors aren't striving to be
blue or green any more than the other creatures were trying to get to
dolphinness. They're just what they are and need to be for the
current frequency/environment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather
There was a lecture series on evolution at the University of Arizona earlier
this year. I wasn't able to attend, but heard good things about it. You
can check out the podcasts here - http://cos.arizona.edu/evolution/
heather
tucson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this year. I wasn't able to attend, but heard good things about it. You
can check out the podcasts here - http://cos.arizona.edu/evolution/
heather
tucson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Bennink
There is a PDF document entitled "Evolution and Creationism: A Guide for Museum Docents" that some people might find interesting. You can see it at
www.priweb.org/Evolution%20and%20Creationism.pdf
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
www.priweb.org/Evolution%20and%20Creationism.pdf
Dawn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 7, 2006, at 11:52 AM, Schuyler wrote:
I think it's just how my brain works. It seems to need analogies to
understand so it just keeps scanning the possibilities until it hits
on something it likes ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What a really good way of explaining evolutionary changes. I have aThank you :-)
> hard time coming up with analogies and am consistently impressed
> with how well you can describe something.
I think it's just how my brain works. It seems to need analogies to
understand so it just keeps scanning the possibilities until it hits
on something it likes ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alice
--- In [email protected], "Sandy"
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
My 9 yo son has been interested in evolution of late too. We have had
better luck with documentaries than books. I am sure there are
engaging books out there but we just didn't find them. And some of
the concepts are so dry to be reading about - video was way better!
Like we learned about mitochondrial DNA from "Real Eve" - a subject we
never would have touched in a book.
If you have Netflix, you can get all kinds of wonderful videos that
touch on this subject. We have watched:
Walking with Dinosaurs
Walking with Prehistoric Beasts
Walking with Cavemen
The Real Eve
Nova: Origins
Evolution 4 disc series (haven't seen yet but is in our queue)
We also enjoyed "Quest for Fire" and "Clan of the Cavebear" which are
actually movies, not documentaries. Beware though, lots of nudity and
"mating", as my kids say. These are less about evolution itself but
just about prehistoric man. But it all fits together. I'm sure there
are more but these are what I have found.
My son surprised me the other day with the understanding of evolution
and genes that he has managed to garner from all these sources. He
and his cousin were playing "tickle bugs". Cousin sprayed a toxic
tickle bug spray all over to protect himself which killed nearly all
of the bugs. DS says, "Ahhh! But two have survived and they have
babies and now the babies have their parent's immunity so the spray
doesn't work any more!"
-Alice
mom to two amazing kids, Andrew 9, and Audrey 5
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
>Hi, Sandy,
> we're both interested in finding out more information about
> evolution. I don't want to get any material that will bore him away
> from the subject because he is sincerely interested.
My 9 yo son has been interested in evolution of late too. We have had
better luck with documentaries than books. I am sure there are
engaging books out there but we just didn't find them. And some of
the concepts are so dry to be reading about - video was way better!
Like we learned about mitochondrial DNA from "Real Eve" - a subject we
never would have touched in a book.
If you have Netflix, you can get all kinds of wonderful videos that
touch on this subject. We have watched:
Walking with Dinosaurs
Walking with Prehistoric Beasts
Walking with Cavemen
The Real Eve
Nova: Origins
Evolution 4 disc series (haven't seen yet but is in our queue)
We also enjoyed "Quest for Fire" and "Clan of the Cavebear" which are
actually movies, not documentaries. Beware though, lots of nudity and
"mating", as my kids say. These are less about evolution itself but
just about prehistoric man. But it all fits together. I'm sure there
are more but these are what I have found.
My son surprised me the other day with the understanding of evolution
and genes that he has managed to garner from all these sources. He
and his cousin were playing "tickle bugs". Cousin sprayed a toxic
tickle bug spray all over to protect himself which killed nearly all
of the bugs. DS says, "Ahhh! But two have survived and they have
babies and now the babies have their parent's immunity so the spray
doesn't work any more!"
-Alice
mom to two amazing kids, Andrew 9, and Audrey 5
Denise
Check your library for this book:
"The Evolution Book" by Sara Stein (The story of 4,000 million years
of life on Earth revealed through observations, experiments, projects,
and investigations for children 10-14).
Also, try to get a hold of the November 2004 Nation Geographic issue
on Evolution. Its a great place for parents to learn a bit more so
they can feel more confident helping navigate their kids through the
ideas of evolution.
Here's a link to an evolutionary learning game online:
http://www.gel.msu.edu/lifepreservers/
A good documentary on becoming human
http://www.becominghuman.org/documentary
The Field Museum has a great exhibit called Evolving Planet. You can
read through most of the exhibit and see many of the fossils etc here.
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/evolvingplanet/tour.asp
Enjoy your search,
Denise
Holland, MI
--- In [email protected], "Sandy"
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
"The Evolution Book" by Sara Stein (The story of 4,000 million years
of life on Earth revealed through observations, experiments, projects,
and investigations for children 10-14).
Also, try to get a hold of the November 2004 Nation Geographic issue
on Evolution. Its a great place for parents to learn a bit more so
they can feel more confident helping navigate their kids through the
ideas of evolution.
Here's a link to an evolutionary learning game online:
http://www.gel.msu.edu/lifepreservers/
A good documentary on becoming human
http://www.becominghuman.org/documentary
The Field Museum has a great exhibit called Evolving Planet. You can
read through most of the exhibit and see many of the fossils etc here.
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/evolvingplanet/tour.asp
Enjoy your search,
Denise
Holland, MI
--- In [email protected], "Sandy"
<sereneaspirations@...> wrote:
>
> DS and I were discussing the whole "dolphins MAY have had legs" issue
> and we're both interested in finding out more information about
> evolution. Funny, his questions are so logical but I do not know very
> much about evolution at all. I don't want to get any material that
> will bore him away from the subject because he is sincerely
> interested. We both get that viruses and bacteria evolve and things
> like that but how random selection works as far as an animal changing
> to where it doesn't "need" it's legs or anything like that...we're
> completely clueless as to how evolution of that magnitude occurs
> regardless of billions of years.
>
> IMO, evolution has it's holes to but at the same time, I do not know
> enough to make an informed opinion one way or the other.
>
> Thanks
> Sandy
>