RE: sleep
Betsy Varga
"I don't think recommending books you have not read or ideas that are
entirely opposite to the freedom based lifestyle of unschooling and
attachment parenting, is remotely helpful."
Since everyone on this list is an independent thinker and intelligent enough
to look through a library book and decide if the information presented is
useful to them (or not), I think that putting the name of a book "out on the
table" so to speak was helpful. Since I made it clear that it was
recommended to me, I really did not mean to imply that I agreed (or
disagreed) with the content myself. I was not aware his views were entirely
opposite to the freedom based lifestyle of unschooling and attachment
parenting. Mentioning the book generated discussion about a negative form
of parenting and now I and other list members know that the book is not
worth reading. Your information about "Ferberizing" was very interesting
and helpful to me. It gave me something to research on the internet and a
chance to both educate myself and form my own opinions. Now I know that I
would not recommend it to a friend. Thank you.
My dh, dd, ds and I love to gather information. We usually glean a few
"nuggets" from most anything we research although we do not agree with
everything we find, read, listen to, ect.
You said that "Dr. Ferber recanted his horrible ideas before his death".
Dr. Richard A. Ferber, MD is still listed as a doctor practicing at
Children's Hospital in Boston. Maybe he is dead and they have not taken him
off the website.
I would also like to make it clear that my personal opinion is that a
teenager should be free to have their own sleep schedule. I also mentioned
that I learned this the hard way when my child was 12. However, if I had a
different opinion, I hope it would be ok for me to express it.
entirely opposite to the freedom based lifestyle of unschooling and
attachment parenting, is remotely helpful."
Since everyone on this list is an independent thinker and intelligent enough
to look through a library book and decide if the information presented is
useful to them (or not), I think that putting the name of a book "out on the
table" so to speak was helpful. Since I made it clear that it was
recommended to me, I really did not mean to imply that I agreed (or
disagreed) with the content myself. I was not aware his views were entirely
opposite to the freedom based lifestyle of unschooling and attachment
parenting. Mentioning the book generated discussion about a negative form
of parenting and now I and other list members know that the book is not
worth reading. Your information about "Ferberizing" was very interesting
and helpful to me. It gave me something to research on the internet and a
chance to both educate myself and form my own opinions. Now I know that I
would not recommend it to a friend. Thank you.
My dh, dd, ds and I love to gather information. We usually glean a few
"nuggets" from most anything we research although we do not agree with
everything we find, read, listen to, ect.
You said that "Dr. Ferber recanted his horrible ideas before his death".
Dr. Richard A. Ferber, MD is still listed as a doctor practicing at
Children's Hospital in Boston. Maybe he is dead and they have not taken him
off the website.
I would also like to make it clear that my personal opinion is that a
teenager should be free to have their own sleep schedule. I also mentioned
that I learned this the hard way when my child was 12. However, if I had a
different opinion, I hope it would be ok for me to express it.
Robyn Coburn
<<<You said that "Dr. Ferber recanted his horrible ideas before his death".
Dr. Richard A. Ferber, MD is still listed as a doctor practicing at
Children's Hospital in Boston. Maybe he is dead and they have not taken him
off the website.>>>
I read an interview with him recanting his sleep training theories in an odd
place. I think it was *not* a parenting type magazine, and I had heard it
said elsewhere also. I wish I could remember the magazine. Was it "Wired"
magazine? You can see why I think it was an unusual place for the article if
it was in Wired or similar, which is partly why I remember the article.
However I could easily be wrong about his recent death. I remember when
everyone thought Sean Connery was deceased, and he had to go on Letterman to
show that the rumors were "greatly exaggerated" as the old joke goes.
Every one is constantly expressing opinions and sharing stories of their
experiences here. That is the whole idea. However once an idea is posted, it
is up for discussion and debate. The slant of most posters will be in the
direction of enhancing our ability to Unschool with joy. Ideas that may
result in lessening the freedom and joy of our lives will be challenged
strongly.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release Date: 7/2/2004
Dr. Richard A. Ferber, MD is still listed as a doctor practicing at
Children's Hospital in Boston. Maybe he is dead and they have not taken him
off the website.>>>
I read an interview with him recanting his sleep training theories in an odd
place. I think it was *not* a parenting type magazine, and I had heard it
said elsewhere also. I wish I could remember the magazine. Was it "Wired"
magazine? You can see why I think it was an unusual place for the article if
it was in Wired or similar, which is partly why I remember the article.
However I could easily be wrong about his recent death. I remember when
everyone thought Sean Connery was deceased, and he had to go on Letterman to
show that the rumors were "greatly exaggerated" as the old joke goes.
Every one is constantly expressing opinions and sharing stories of their
experiences here. That is the whole idea. However once an idea is posted, it
is up for discussion and debate. The slant of most posters will be in the
direction of enhancing our ability to Unschool with joy. Ideas that may
result in lessening the freedom and joy of our lives will be challenged
strongly.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release Date: 7/2/2004
catherine aceto
New Yorker, I think is where I read it.
What I recall, though, is more that he regretted criticizing co-sleeping
(about which he admits that he knew nothing) more than actually recanting
his hideous abusive sleep-training advice.
-Cat
What I recall, though, is more that he regretted criticizing co-sleeping
(about which he admits that he knew nothing) more than actually recanting
his hideous abusive sleep-training advice.
-Cat
> I read an interview with him recanting his sleep training theories in anodd
> place. I think it was *not* a parenting type magazine, and I had heard it
> said elsewhere also. I wish I could remember the magazine. Was it "Wired"
> magazine?
Valerie
> You said that "Dr. Ferber recanted his horrible ideas before hisdeath".
> Dr. Richard A. Ferber, MD is still listed as a doctor practicing attaken him
> Children's Hospital in Boston. Maybe he is dead and they have not
> off the website.***** Not sure about Ferber, but Dr. Spock recanted the cruel sleep
idea before his own death.
Ren Allen
"i know MANY teenagers who stay up most of the
night - especially those who play online games."
But he's 9.
Which in my house, wouldn't matter, because there would always be
someone available to watch him/her. But if the sleep habits of one
person are keeping the rest of the household from doing the things
they love, then that needs to be addressed.
Trevor is usually up all night and sleeps most of the day, but he's
15 and willing to help out when I need to leave someone home for a
bit too.
I guess it would all depend on how much his sleep schedule affects
everyone else, that's the part you need to deal with, not what hours
he sleeps.
I'm sure you can find some un/homeschoolers with night owls that
would be more than happy to get together in the late afternoon or
evening, maybe skip the morning activities unless someone really
wants to go....or let him stay home if there can be someone there
for him.
I have a feeling it's the new found freedom that he loves...maybe
you could wait it out a bit before deciding whether it's negatively
affecting anyone, or just something you can work around.
Ren
night - especially those who play online games."
But he's 9.
Which in my house, wouldn't matter, because there would always be
someone available to watch him/her. But if the sleep habits of one
person are keeping the rest of the household from doing the things
they love, then that needs to be addressed.
Trevor is usually up all night and sleeps most of the day, but he's
15 and willing to help out when I need to leave someone home for a
bit too.
I guess it would all depend on how much his sleep schedule affects
everyone else, that's the part you need to deal with, not what hours
he sleeps.
I'm sure you can find some un/homeschoolers with night owls that
would be more than happy to get together in the late afternoon or
evening, maybe skip the morning activities unless someone really
wants to go....or let him stay home if there can be someone there
for him.
I have a feeling it's the new found freedom that he loves...maybe
you could wait it out a bit before deciding whether it's negatively
affecting anyone, or just something you can work around.
Ren
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 15, 2005, at 4:45 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
teenagers to start getting more energy in the evenings and forgot to
get back to Tristan, himself.
Having seen so MANY teenagers (and i'm talking from ages 12 to 20)
get onto these all-night patterns and then be able to easily switch
to different schedules whenever the need arises, I'm just not worried
about sleep. That was really my point. It is a non-issue.
It seems like this Tristan is okay being up all night - keeping
himself busy, right?
I think if he is comfortable with it, I'd let it go - just not make
ANY comments or point about it, not for a good long while. Since
sleep was already a big issue for him, when he was in school, it
makes sense that this is the place he might (subconsciously) test out
all this new unschooling lifestyle stuff.
I'd go further, I'd make sure he was comfortable with staying up
all night. Put some food on a plate for him to snack on during the
night, for example.
In fact, thinking about this, it all seems so familiar and that's
because my youngest daughter, Rose, who is now almost 15, was about 9
or 10 and was wanting to stay up really late even when her sisters
had gone to bed, so I sometimes slept out on the couch so that she'd
have company.
As Rue said, this is all assuming he isn't keeping other family
members up. That's a different issue than HIM staying up.
Also - we have a small house and it is hard for people to be quiet
all the time - so when one person is staying up most of the night and
wanting to sleep past noon, it starts to get hard to keep the house
quiet enough - nobody can sing loudly, play music, etc, without
waking others up. That's a reasonable thing - to tell the kids that
you'll try to keep the house quiet until a certain time, like noon.
Also - my kids have always fallen asleep watching videos - ones
they've seen before, often over and over. So if I really thought
someone needed to get to sleep, I could often put on a video, start
watching it, lower the lights around the house, ask people to quiet
down/settle down, and usually the sleepy kid would be drawn into the
movie and would relax and fall asleep. I'd cover the kid with a nice
warm blanket and let them sleep all night wherever they fell asleep -
because if I tried to move them, sometimes that would get them all
wide awake again.
My youngest daughter had a friend who would stay up ALL night
whenever she stayed here. Her family had just a tiny tv that was kept
in the parents' bedroom and the father dominated it - kids were
almost never allowed to watch anything unless they watched with their
father, whatever he wanted to watch.
My daughter would turn on the tv and they'd watch movies, but my
daughter would fall asleep. I'd get up at 7 in the morning and the
other girl would be still watching movies, she'd be FORCING herself
to stay awake and keep watching one movie after another. Her mother
said, "Oh she'd NEVER go to sleep if the tv was on, she'd watch tv 24
hours a day if I'd let her."
Well, yeah, because it was a huge big deal for her, of course.
-pam - easily sidetracked today <G>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "i know MANY teenagers who stay up most of theRight - sorry I got carried away explaining how normal it is for
> night - especially those who play online games."
>
> But he's 9.
> Which in my house, wouldn't matter, because there would always be
> someone available to watch him/her. But if the sleep habits of one
> person are keeping the rest of the household from doing the things
> they love, then that needs to be addressed.
teenagers to start getting more energy in the evenings and forgot to
get back to Tristan, himself.
Having seen so MANY teenagers (and i'm talking from ages 12 to 20)
get onto these all-night patterns and then be able to easily switch
to different schedules whenever the need arises, I'm just not worried
about sleep. That was really my point. It is a non-issue.
It seems like this Tristan is okay being up all night - keeping
himself busy, right?
I think if he is comfortable with it, I'd let it go - just not make
ANY comments or point about it, not for a good long while. Since
sleep was already a big issue for him, when he was in school, it
makes sense that this is the place he might (subconsciously) test out
all this new unschooling lifestyle stuff.
I'd go further, I'd make sure he was comfortable with staying up
all night. Put some food on a plate for him to snack on during the
night, for example.
In fact, thinking about this, it all seems so familiar and that's
because my youngest daughter, Rose, who is now almost 15, was about 9
or 10 and was wanting to stay up really late even when her sisters
had gone to bed, so I sometimes slept out on the couch so that she'd
have company.
As Rue said, this is all assuming he isn't keeping other family
members up. That's a different issue than HIM staying up.
Also - we have a small house and it is hard for people to be quiet
all the time - so when one person is staying up most of the night and
wanting to sleep past noon, it starts to get hard to keep the house
quiet enough - nobody can sing loudly, play music, etc, without
waking others up. That's a reasonable thing - to tell the kids that
you'll try to keep the house quiet until a certain time, like noon.
Also - my kids have always fallen asleep watching videos - ones
they've seen before, often over and over. So if I really thought
someone needed to get to sleep, I could often put on a video, start
watching it, lower the lights around the house, ask people to quiet
down/settle down, and usually the sleepy kid would be drawn into the
movie and would relax and fall asleep. I'd cover the kid with a nice
warm blanket and let them sleep all night wherever they fell asleep -
because if I tried to move them, sometimes that would get them all
wide awake again.
My youngest daughter had a friend who would stay up ALL night
whenever she stayed here. Her family had just a tiny tv that was kept
in the parents' bedroom and the father dominated it - kids were
almost never allowed to watch anything unless they watched with their
father, whatever he wanted to watch.
My daughter would turn on the tv and they'd watch movies, but my
daughter would fall asleep. I'd get up at 7 in the morning and the
other girl would be still watching movies, she'd be FORCING herself
to stay awake and keep watching one movie after another. Her mother
said, "Oh she'd NEVER go to sleep if the tv was on, she'd watch tv 24
hours a day if I'd let her."
Well, yeah, because it was a huge big deal for her, of course.
-pam - easily sidetracked today <G>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"-pam - easily sidetracked today <G>"
Yeah, and she called me Rue...:)
which I totally don't mind, since Rue is much sweeter than I am.
Ren
Yeah, and she called me Rue...:)
which I totally don't mind, since Rue is much sweeter than I am.
Ren
Pamela Sorooshian
Sheesh - "side-tracked" isn't the right word. I'm just really not all
here.
Okay - true confessions - I've been sitting here watching one episode
after another of LOST - downloaded with iTunes.
-pam
here.
Okay - true confessions - I've been sitting here watching one episode
after another of LOST - downloaded with iTunes.
-pam
On Dec 15, 2005, at 6:57 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
> "-pam - easily sidetracked today <G>"
>
> Yeah, and she called me Rue...:)
> which I totally don't mind, since Rue is much sweeter than I am.
>
> Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
<<I guess it would all depend on how much his sleep schedule affects
everyone else, that's the part you need to deal with, not what hours
he sleeps.>>
Ren, you're right. For the most part, his sleeping schedule hasn't negatively affected me (right now the only other member of the family). I need to think about adjusting my schedule a bit as well to help fit his. I'm sure we'll find a happy medium at some point! I was so used to dropping Tristan off at school and then running errands. I'd be done with most things (housework, errands, and the like) fairly early in the day and had several hours to myself before Tristan came home.
Now, I feel like I need to tiptoe around the house until Tristan is awake, and we aren't getting out of the house until the afternoon...I feel a bit lost at times with the upheaval of my schedule. LOL
<I have a feeling it's the new found freedom that he loves...>
That's what I was thinking, but then when I saw him up at 4AM this morning I think I panicked a bit, wondering if I had given him too much freedom. But then, between myself and my husband (who *ahem* has stayed up all night on a number of occasions to game on the computer) I guess I shouldn't be too surprised to see this. :o)
Malinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
everyone else, that's the part you need to deal with, not what hours
he sleeps.>>
Ren, you're right. For the most part, his sleeping schedule hasn't negatively affected me (right now the only other member of the family). I need to think about adjusting my schedule a bit as well to help fit his. I'm sure we'll find a happy medium at some point! I was so used to dropping Tristan off at school and then running errands. I'd be done with most things (housework, errands, and the like) fairly early in the day and had several hours to myself before Tristan came home.
Now, I feel like I need to tiptoe around the house until Tristan is awake, and we aren't getting out of the house until the afternoon...I feel a bit lost at times with the upheaval of my schedule. LOL
<I have a feeling it's the new found freedom that he loves...>
That's what I was thinking, but then when I saw him up at 4AM this morning I think I panicked a bit, wondering if I had given him too much freedom. But then, between myself and my husband (who *ahem* has stayed up all night on a number of occasions to game on the computer) I guess I shouldn't be too surprised to see this. :o)
Malinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
<<I got carried away explaining how normal it is for
teenagers to start getting more energy in the evenings and forgot to
get back to Tristan, himself.>>
See, I've really seen this in Tristan over the past week or so. His energy builds as the day goes on. He seems most productive (probably not the best term, but you get the picture) and agreeable at night. I am the exact same way.
<<Having seen so MANY teenagers...get onto these all-night patterns and then be able to easily switch to different schedules whenever the need arises, I'm just not worried about sleep.>
That's reassuring to hear, Pam. I think the biggest thing I'm concerned about is this sleep schedule becoming an ingrained pattern that would be difficult to switch about if it becomes disruptive to the family.
<It seems like this Tristan is okay being up all night - keeping
himself busy, right?>
Yes, he definitely can keep himself busy....playing on the computer, watching movies, reading, doing puzzles, etc. He's a very responsible kid.
<I think if he is comfortable with it, I'd let it go - just not make
ANY comments or point about it, not for a good long while. Since
sleep was already a big issue for him, when he was in school, it
makes sense that this is the place he might (subconsciously) test out
all this new unschooling lifestyle stuff.>
Thanks for the insight, Pam. I was thinking along these lines but wasn't sure if it was just me trying to rationalize his actions to make myself feel better about allowing him to stay up, if that makes sense. It's wonderful to hear the input of others!
<As Rue said, this is all assuming he isn't keeping other family
members up. That's a different issue than HIM staying up.>
For the most part he's been very quiet. If the a movie gets a bit loud before I crawl into bed, I mention it to Tristan, and he gets very apologetic and turns it way down. The exception, of course, was when I intervened early this morning and made him go to bed. (mistake on my part)
<Also - we have a small house and it is hard for people to be quiet
all the time - so when one person is staying up most of the night and
wanting to sleep past noon, it starts to get hard to keep the house
quiet enough - nobody can sing loudly, play music, etc, without
waking others up. That's a reasonable thing - to tell the kids that
you'll try to keep the house quiet until a certain time, like noon.>
We have a small home, too, so I feel like I have to tiptoe around while Tristan's in bed. I know how I hate to be woken up and want to extend him the same courtesy. There is a time, however, when I do need to get some things done around the house (laundry, etc.), and that is bound to wake him up.
I really like the idea of telling him that I can keep the house quiet until a certain time. That would also give me some much needed quiet time in the mornings while he is still asleep - I used to get this after he went to bed, but it looks like that may be a thing of the past. ;o)
Malinda
teenagers to start getting more energy in the evenings and forgot to
get back to Tristan, himself.>>
See, I've really seen this in Tristan over the past week or so. His energy builds as the day goes on. He seems most productive (probably not the best term, but you get the picture) and agreeable at night. I am the exact same way.
<<Having seen so MANY teenagers...get onto these all-night patterns and then be able to easily switch to different schedules whenever the need arises, I'm just not worried about sleep.>
That's reassuring to hear, Pam. I think the biggest thing I'm concerned about is this sleep schedule becoming an ingrained pattern that would be difficult to switch about if it becomes disruptive to the family.
<It seems like this Tristan is okay being up all night - keeping
himself busy, right?>
Yes, he definitely can keep himself busy....playing on the computer, watching movies, reading, doing puzzles, etc. He's a very responsible kid.
<I think if he is comfortable with it, I'd let it go - just not make
ANY comments or point about it, not for a good long while. Since
sleep was already a big issue for him, when he was in school, it
makes sense that this is the place he might (subconsciously) test out
all this new unschooling lifestyle stuff.>
Thanks for the insight, Pam. I was thinking along these lines but wasn't sure if it was just me trying to rationalize his actions to make myself feel better about allowing him to stay up, if that makes sense. It's wonderful to hear the input of others!
<As Rue said, this is all assuming he isn't keeping other family
members up. That's a different issue than HIM staying up.>
For the most part he's been very quiet. If the a movie gets a bit loud before I crawl into bed, I mention it to Tristan, and he gets very apologetic and turns it way down. The exception, of course, was when I intervened early this morning and made him go to bed. (mistake on my part)
<Also - we have a small house and it is hard for people to be quiet
all the time - so when one person is staying up most of the night and
wanting to sleep past noon, it starts to get hard to keep the house
quiet enough - nobody can sing loudly, play music, etc, without
waking others up. That's a reasonable thing - to tell the kids that
you'll try to keep the house quiet until a certain time, like noon.>
We have a small home, too, so I feel like I have to tiptoe around while Tristan's in bed. I know how I hate to be woken up and want to extend him the same courtesy. There is a time, however, when I do need to get some things done around the house (laundry, etc.), and that is bound to wake him up.
I really like the idea of telling him that I can keep the house quiet until a certain time. That would also give me some much needed quiet time in the mornings while he is still asleep - I used to get this after he went to bed, but it looks like that may be a thing of the past. ;o)
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] sleep
Right - sorry I got carried away explaining how normal it is for
teenagers to start getting more energy in the evenings and forgot to
get back to Tristan, himself.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"I know with our
family that the 3yo is ready for bed alot soonner then the 8yo but
doesnt want to go to bed becuase the 8yo is still up and she doesnt
want to miss anything...but she gets more and more cranky...where as
if
I take her up say at 8 and lay with her and read her stories , shes
out
by 8:30.."
We make deals in our house. If Jalen is having a night where it's
obvious he NEEDS to get to sleep NOW, the other kids know that they
need to go into their rooms and help me get the house dark. He just
can't unwind if anything is going on usually.
Once they go off quietly and I get the house dark, he's quite willing
to come read stories with Sierra and I...or cuddle on the bed. He's
like me, wants to be in the center of everything and not miss
anything.:) Social butterfly. The other kids keep it quiet, but they
come out and make food, or putz around and it won't bother him once
he's out.
Have you talked with her about acting as though she's going to bed,
for the younger one's benefit? That's a fairly simple solution.
Then, she can go back to her activities once the 3y.o. is asleep.
Ren
family that the 3yo is ready for bed alot soonner then the 8yo but
doesnt want to go to bed becuase the 8yo is still up and she doesnt
want to miss anything...but she gets more and more cranky...where as
if
I take her up say at 8 and lay with her and read her stories , shes
out
by 8:30.."
We make deals in our house. If Jalen is having a night where it's
obvious he NEEDS to get to sleep NOW, the other kids know that they
need to go into their rooms and help me get the house dark. He just
can't unwind if anything is going on usually.
Once they go off quietly and I get the house dark, he's quite willing
to come read stories with Sierra and I...or cuddle on the bed. He's
like me, wants to be in the center of everything and not miss
anything.:) Social butterfly. The other kids keep it quiet, but they
come out and make food, or putz around and it won't bother him once
he's out.
Have you talked with her about acting as though she's going to bed,
for the younger one's benefit? That's a fairly simple solution.
Then, she can go back to her activities once the 3y.o. is asleep.
Ren
Ren Allen
"Some here would suggest you feed the animals yourself."
Let's just post what we think is helpful, rather than what we think
other people would say or not say.
Thanks.
Ren
Let's just post what we think is helpful, rather than what we think
other people would say or not say.
Thanks.
Ren
Ren Allen
"They are humoring me in regards to homeschooling
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back
into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of
unschooling.
I can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon."
Don't let them intimidate you. Why don't you simply say "He's on
Christmas vacation" if they ask, and change the subject if they press
any further?
Ren
(basically supporting my decision but want Tristan "mainstreamed" back
into
school ASAP) but would be totally and utterly against the idea of
unschooling.
I can see just an incredibly unhappy visit on the horizon."
Don't let them intimidate you. Why don't you simply say "He's on
Christmas vacation" if they ask, and change the subject if they press
any further?
Ren
Ren Allen
"By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls anymore,
I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend
guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep.""
I'm trying really hard to understand here, so I'm asking for
clarification.
Earlier, you said the kids had NOT "expressed a desire" to change
their sleep schedule. So I'm not sure if the above quote is about how
they HAVE expressed this desire, or how they would do it IF such a
thing came about???
Ren
I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend
guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep.""
I'm trying really hard to understand here, so I'm asking for
clarification.
Earlier, you said the kids had NOT "expressed a desire" to change
their sleep schedule. So I'm not sure if the above quote is about how
they HAVE expressed this desire, or how they would do it IF such a
thing came about???
Ren
[email protected]
<<or how they would do it IF such a thing came about?>>
LOL. Yes, IF such a thing came about. My kids wouldn't hesitate to tell me if they didn't want to show animals anymore. In fact, my oldest son did. He went about a year without showing animals and then came back and said he wanted to again, so he is.
We are on a schedule due to the realities of our lives, not some arbitrary belief that sleeping past 8 is a mortal sin. It is how we figured things out when we decided to add activities to our lives, things we considered and talked about when trying to figure out how to let everyone do the things they want to do.
I do prefer that we are on a schedule, I like it this way. But I certainly don't force it on the kids. If the kids would rather sleep in than do their activities or be able to help me think of way they could still do their activities and sleep in, I would do what they wanted.
I also prefer vanilla icecream but the kids like chocolate and that is what they eat. My having a preference doesn't equal everyone doing things my way. I originally mentioned that I prefer us being on somewhat of the same schedule in response to a mom who was having trouble with her son's sleeping pattern. I wanted to give her "permission", if you will, to verbalize that perhaps she simply had a preference, if indeed that were true for her. If we can learn to identify the boundaries between preferences (I just like how this feels) and needs (he must learn to sleep on a schedule to get a good job), I think it is then the first step to identifying boundaries between persons (my preference is fine for me but I don't get to impose that on you). But just as it is ok for my kids to express their desires based on nothing more than preference, I think it is just as ok for me to do that.
Julie S.
LOL. Yes, IF such a thing came about. My kids wouldn't hesitate to tell me if they didn't want to show animals anymore. In fact, my oldest son did. He went about a year without showing animals and then came back and said he wanted to again, so he is.
We are on a schedule due to the realities of our lives, not some arbitrary belief that sleeping past 8 is a mortal sin. It is how we figured things out when we decided to add activities to our lives, things we considered and talked about when trying to figure out how to let everyone do the things they want to do.
I do prefer that we are on a schedule, I like it this way. But I certainly don't force it on the kids. If the kids would rather sleep in than do their activities or be able to help me think of way they could still do their activities and sleep in, I would do what they wanted.
I also prefer vanilla icecream but the kids like chocolate and that is what they eat. My having a preference doesn't equal everyone doing things my way. I originally mentioned that I prefer us being on somewhat of the same schedule in response to a mom who was having trouble with her son's sleeping pattern. I wanted to give her "permission", if you will, to verbalize that perhaps she simply had a preference, if indeed that were true for her. If we can learn to identify the boundaries between preferences (I just like how this feels) and needs (he must learn to sleep on a schedule to get a good job), I think it is then the first step to identifying boundaries between persons (my preference is fine for me but I don't get to impose that on you). But just as it is ok for my kids to express their desires based on nothing more than preference, I think it is just as ok for me to do that.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Sunday, December 18, 2005 4:46 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] sleep
> "By saying, "I don't want to get up to feed and clean stalls anymore,
> I'd rather sleep." or by saying "I don't want to get up to attend
> guitar lessons anymore, I'd rather sleep.""
>
> I'm trying really hard to understand here, so I'm asking for
> clarification.
> Earlier, you said the kids had NOT "expressed a desire" to change
> their sleep schedule. So I'm not sure if the above quote is about
> how
> they HAVE expressed this desire, or how they would do it IF such a
> thing came about???
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student
> project today!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/9.ZgmA/FpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ren Allen
"My kids wouldn't hesitate to tell me if
they didn't want to show animals anymore."
Ah, ok. That makes more sense now..thanks for clarifying.
Ren
they didn't want to show animals anymore."
Ah, ok. That makes more sense now..thanks for clarifying.
Ren