Deb Lewis

***Instead of saying, "wow, what a loser", how about a deep breath and a
silent
wish for them to find peace for themselves and their children?***

This is kind of rambling and long but I think there might be a point in
here somewhere. Not technically an unschooling issue if you describe
unschooling as not doing school, but an unschooling issue if you describe
unschooling as a life philosophy. A human rights issue, I guess.

My sister in law is here with her kids. We were all up at my mom in
law's house, cooking, eating, visiting and I started to do the dishes.
Dylan went out to the picnic table to collect plates and glasses people
were finished with.

My sil came in and said to her middle daughter "you're just sitting there
letting her do the dishes?" in a tone that was so snotty and
disrespectful. Lillie said she thought we'd probably talked about it and
already worked it out and her mom said "No adult in this house should
have to do dishes when there are three teen aged girls here."

My stomach hurt. Dylan was SO offended he got up and went outside. I
told Lillie I was sorry my actions resulted in her being yelled at and
told her I was happy to do the dishes, that I liked the hot water and it
made my hands feel good. I told my sil if she was being harsh on her
kids to impress me it was failing miserably and I'd rather see everyone
happy even if I ended up doing every dish from now until eternity.

When people talk like that to their kids it's not parenting. I don't
know quite what to call it, but if we keep calling the abuse of kids by
their parents "parenting" we're not going to get anywhere.

If my sister in law had been talking to/about the neighbor kids who
happen to be black and had said "No white person in this house should
have to do dishes when there are three black girls here" Everyone would
have exploded in outrage. If a man had said "No man in this house
should have to do dishes when there are women here." I can't think of
anyone who'd stay silent. Really, I'm asking now, is there anyone on
this list who wouldn't have made a judgement about that kind of behavior?
Would we spend a minute debating whether it was right to judge?

Our society lets this kind of discrimination, disrespect, abuse of kids
go on and on because we tell ourselves we shouldn't be judgmental about
the way others parent.

Bullshit.

People like this are hurting their kids as surely as if they were hitting
them. Sickeningly enough, even if she'd hit her daughter then (she does,
but she didn't then) no one in the family (except Dylan and I ) would
have said anything about it.

We seem to still be pretty comfortable letting adults get away with
discrimination against children and I wonder why. How many of us on
this list could witness a woman being abusive to her elderly mother and
not make a judgement call about whether it's right or wrong? How many
of us could watch a man treat his wife this way and not make a judgement
about it?

I think the only way things will start to change for children on a larger
scale than just our little unschooling lists, is if we are brave enough
to speak up in defense of kids who are being treated like crap by their
parents. Maybe even if we do we won't be able to make much difference, I
don't know, but I know I don't want to look into my son's eyes and tell
him I was too worried about being politically correct to try.

Deb Lewis

christy_imnotred

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@j...>
wrote:
> Our society lets this kind of discrimination, disrespect, abuse of
kids go on and on because we tell ourselves we shouldn't be
judgmental about the way others parent.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> People like this are hurting their kids as surely as if they were
hitting them.

Deb,

Thanks for writing this. My husband always says that different
people parent differently and I shouldn't judge. But if what they
are doing is hurting their kids, maybe I should judge. As long as
hurtful behavior is ignored it will keep going on.

Christy

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@j...>
wrote:
> We seem to still be pretty comfortable letting adults get away with
> discrimination against children and I wonder why. How many of us
on
> this list could witness a woman being abusive to her elderly mother
and
> not make a judgement call about whether it's right or wrong? How
many
> of us could watch a man treat his wife this way and not make a
judgement
> about it?

Well, I'm new to unschooling and related types of parenting and I'm
just begining to change the way I talk and notice how harsh everyone
else sounds! Happened today at the park. The thing is, though, I
think a lot of people think they have to choose being being "strict"
and being permissive. I didn't know there was another option until
recently.

It reminds me of the breastfeeding issue. If a woman has never seen
someone breastfeeding, has a bunch of nieces and nephews who are
happy and healthy after formula, etc., it wouldn't suprise me if she
didn't nurse her kids or not for long. On the other hand, when
someone has plenty of exposure to b.f. and just says "eww, yucky, I
don't wanna" then I'm more likely to have a negative impression of
her!!

>
> I think the only way things will start to change for children on a
larger
> scale than just our little unschooling lists, is if we are brave
enough
> to speak up in defense of kids who are being treated like crap by
their
> parents.

Tough one. I want to shield kids (not just mine) from negative
comments, but I know in some cases I can either yell or keep my mouth
shut. I think it's going to be a real challenge to find things to say
and do that make a given situation better for everyone--esp. for the
usually defenseless kids.

After seeing the teachers, the teenage camp leader types and other
parents at the park today, I don't ever want to let my kids talk to
other adults again! Yuck, yuck and yuck.

--aj

Valerie

> I think the only way things will start to change for children on a
larger scale than just our little unschooling lists, is if we are
brave enough to speak up in defense of kids who are being treated
like crap by their parents. Maybe even if we do we won't be able to
make much difference, I don't know, but I know I don't want to look
into my son's eyes and tell him I was too worried about being
politically correct to try.
>
> Deb Lewis

Bravo Deb! We spent a miserable evening at a famiy's house last
night. We knew it was going to be miserable, but felt compelled to
go because it was a birthday celebration for a friend of Laurie's
(he lives with us) at his parents home. His mother and sil yelled at
the two boys the entire evening. Every move they made was criticized.

One grandson is 9 and hearing and sight impaired and a few other
problems. He walked into a solid glass storm door and the
grandmother yelled, "You idiot! How many times are you going to do
that?" My bf said, "Maybe putting some kind of sticker on the door
at eye level would help him see it." (we were ready to tackle this
woman and put duct tape on her mouth) She said, "He's done it 1000
times. I'm not messing up my door with a sticker just because he's
stupid." Our mouths dropped open and I said, "Why are you all so
mean to the children?" She replied, "Because they're hell spawn."

The two boys were so sweet - not even rambunctious in the least. My
heart was breaking. I agree with Deb. No one would have remained
silent if that witch was talking to an adult like that. Why should
we remain silent when it's a child being abused? The kids need us to
speak out for them. They have NO power in their own homes.

I've said it before after visiting them (twice in seven years) that
I will NEVER go there again, but last night was the clincher. I will
NEVER go there again.

love, Valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/8/2004 6:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
One grandson is 9 and hearing and sight impaired and a few other
problems. He walked into a solid glass storm door and the
grandmother yelled, "You idiot! How many times are you going to do
that?" My bf said, "Maybe putting some kind of sticker on the door
at eye level would help him see it." (we were ready to tackle this
woman and put duct tape on her mouth) She said, "He's done it 1000
times. I'm not messing up my door with a sticker just because he's
stupid." Our mouths dropped open and I said, "Why are you all so
mean to the children?" She replied, "Because they're hell spawn."
*****************************
He can come live with us. Really.
Kathryn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

How sad, the boy that was called stupid
My heart is breaking for him
syndi

"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn
out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able
to learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- _John Holt_ (http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=John+Holt)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

I know Kathryn. I've thought the same thing, but they aren't up for
it...especially since their now 27-year old son has been living with
us for 7 years and he's struggling daily with how his mom raised
him. :-( The 27-year old designed the cover of my book and they've
never even seen it. It makes me a little crazy.

love, Valerie

--- In [email protected], KathrynJB@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/8/2004 6:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
> One grandson is 9 and hearing and sight impaired and a few other
> problems. He walked into a solid glass storm door and the
> grandmother yelled, "You idiot! How many times are you going to do
> that?" My bf said, "Maybe putting some kind of sticker on the door
> at eye level would help him see it." (we were ready to tackle this
> woman and put duct tape on her mouth) She said, "He's done it 1000
> times. I'm not messing up my door with a sticker just because he's
> stupid." Our mouths dropped open and I said, "Why are you all so
> mean to the children?" She replied, "Because they're hell spawn."
> *****************************
> He can come live with us. Really.
> Kathryn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]