[email protected]

Hi all,

I am Andrea, mom to two great sons: a 29 year old and a 4 year old. I joined
this list from seeing it mentioned on the NoMoreSpanking list and have been
reading posts here somewhat addictively! My older son was raised/schooled
pretty "conventionally-unconventionally" ie Montessori school. Now in my second
career as a mom I am questioning and being forced to question a lot. My 29 yo
has such an accomodating personality I was pretty unprepared for my feisty
4yo; he's caused me to search within and without for noncoercive ways of being
with him and honoring him. And as my own search for authentic living has become
much more pressing (midlife crisis and all that) I really want my 4yo's
wondrous lifeforce to blossom and not be squelched--which of course leads right
into unschooling. So I appreciate all the posts that have stretched my thinking
and caused me to question a lot of my assumptions. Especially discussions of
bedtimes, tv, food are, to me, probably most helpful in "getting" the
underlying philosophy of trust. I really appreciated all the posts about tv limits
(which I have relaxed though not yet relinquished). A lightbulb for me was the
post about "what you do" when you remove the arbitrary limit--ie. you sit with
your child while he watches, you initiate discussions, answer questions,
offer input about what might scare him. There is so much real learning taking
place--and also it is a lot more effort than just making up a rule (though come
to think of it it may be less effort than enforcing said rule). So I am in
quite a state of flux and in the middle of integrating a lot of new ideas I've
gotten here. Many thanks to the list owners and all the posters!

My main fear in homeschooling ds (from here on, that means the 4 yo) is the
recognition of my own needs and the limits on my energy. Both my dh and I have
always felt like we can never quite keep up energy-wise with ds (okay, I am
49 but my dh is only 40!). From birth he has always needed/demanded a lot of
attention (I don't mean that in a negative way, just that he was a baby who
never wanted to be put down, slept relatively little, etc.) Ds continues to
sleep little, is just now winding down on nursing, and still wants to be with me
*all* the time. He is the type of child who wants LOTS of interaction, not
just to play on his own while in the same room as me. (I know he is only 4 but
I'm talking about for short periods, not all day!) That plus various other
reasons--no extended family in this area, dh works long hours, we live outside of
town so trading child care is difficult--means there is just not much down
time for me. I want to honor the wonderful, creative person ds is but there
seems to be a lack of balance that does affect my ability to be patient and fresh
and creative with situations. Ds has, I think, a basically more force-full
nature than I do and from reading the "spirited child" type books I've come to
see that while he is "spirited" in the sense of persistence and energy I am
"spirited" in the sense of having a lot of sensitivity issues and a big need for
quiet and space. (And my energy level is a little lower than it was 25 years
ago.) And while I can put some of my needs aside, over the long haul of
parenting they do have to be honored to some extent or it just is not helpful to
any of us. (I guess I wrote that last sentence mostly for myself, because it's
really hard for me to see this!)

Gradually from reading various posts I've come to see that a lot of my
"rules" are a kind of backwards way of honoring my own needs. Giving up an
automatic/arbitrary rule means I have to be in touch with what my needs are right now
and being able to articulate them enough so we can jointly come up with a
workable situation. Sometimes I can do this though I get the feeling I haven't
had much practice with it! The other day ds wanted to stop at Barnes & Noble
(enroute home from another activity) and look at children's books. I first
started to say No, this is the time you usually fall asleep and you'll be grumpy
and tired. He challenged me (good for him!) and, thanks to this list, I was
able to identify that (1) I was not able to buy anything that day and (2) I
would probably start feeling woozy (from lighting, time since I last ate, etc.)
after about 30 minutes. I stated my own needs and we were able to agree on
"only looking" and a time limit that he actually honored (leaving B&N is often
*very* hard for us!).

But often I am unable to, on-the-fly, figure out my own limitations. Or even
if I know them ds is requesting so many things so fast I can't keep up with
him. Example: I am trying to clean up the glop from a big, abandoned clay
project on the kitchen table; he is already in the yard screaming at me to, not
just find his boots (which, by the way, he can clearly see and easily get on),
but go outside immediately and put them on his feet while he stands astride his
bicycle. Even as I write this I can see that, when well rested, I can
multitask cleaning glop and putting boots on. But when I'm not, I can't! Though I
still struggle with should I necessarily "drop the glop" and rush to put boots
on. And I don't like being screamed at. (He was already on his bicycle when
he decided he wanted the boots and didn't want to get off.)

So, I'm interested in what others might have to say about balancing personal
needs with parenting. How do you get time for yourself? I do just a bit of
freelance music (would like to feel free to do more) and it seems like such a
struggle to get practice time in. Ds grabs at my instrument if I try to
practice, seeing it as a rival for my attention. I haven't had much luck with
helping him find something he can do alongside me as I practice, so I do it after
he goes to bed (and that means if he chooses a much later bedtime than usual,
it gets really hard). It seems like my life really has to be integrated into
our communal life. As it is now, I feel I am trying to cram it all in during
the rare times we are apart--and something seems wrong with that picture.

A rare exception: last night it was late, he wasn't tired, I said I really
had to practice. He himself (!) suggested that he color in my "Anatomy Coloring
Workbook" (his latest fave thing to do) while I practice! So we did till
11:15 pm, interspersing practice/coloring with investigations of what each
other's clavicle felt like, etc. That was great!

Of course, he was up at 6:30, same as usual.

Thanks for reading this long post.

Andrea, possibly in the middle of a major paradigm shift




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"Workbook" (his latest fave thing to do) while I practice! So we did
till
11:15 pm, interspersing practice/coloring with investigations of
what each
other's clavicle felt like, etc. That was great!"

I think you'll get more and more moments like this the older he gets.
It's hard to remember the toddler stage when he's now all grown
up...but I'm sure you remember that feeling like the baby/toddler
stage would be forever, that first time you became a parent?
Couple that with the fact that you have a very intense child, unlike
your other child, it probably feels like you'll never have enough
time for YOU.
My oldest was intense, he's 14 now and SO easy!:)
My youngest is also intense, so I feel wrung out some days too.

It passes. In the meantime, can your dh be with him while you slip
out for a bit, just to get a cappucino and read books or something?
I do take some alone time here and there, not at his expense, but as
it fits in with what is happening. Finding a great show, some pizza
or chicken fingers, usually keeps him busy for a little while.
Right now he is dumping all the Tinkertoys into the clean laundry,
so you just never know....:)
Mix and match eh?

I do believe parents need to take care of themselves in order to be
the best parents they can be...but in the early years (esp. with an
intense child) it's hard. I find that after he falls asleep at
night, a 15 minute meditation, or sitting at the computer for a bit
helps. I breathe deep a lot, light candles daily and focus on the
positive. He's really a quite happy, pleasant person when he's not
destroying my house. lol

Thanks for all the feedback and examples of how your paradigm shifts
are affecting your life! That was great.

Ren

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/4/2004 9:45:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:


>
> I do believe parents need to take care of themselves in order to be
> the best parents they can be...but in the early years (esp. with an
> intense child) it's hard. I find that after he falls asleep at
> night, a 15 minute meditation, or sitting at the computer for a bit
> helps. I breathe deep a lot, light

hi ren...dang can i relate to you sometimes,,,i didnt work or leave my kids
with a sitter till they were older and they were secure with it ,,not always
easy,,but i knew my kids were loved and took care of,,,wouldnt trade those years
for all the gold in ft.knotts!!!...i hated i worked for 4 years because i
missed alot with my younger two,,being away from the house and them so much.i
have that back though and im glad....hopeing tomake the best of it .....June


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

Both my dh and I have always felt like we can never quite keep up
energy-wise with ds (okay, I am 49 but my dh is only 40!).

Andrea, possibly in the middle of a major paradigm shift


***** I'm not the oldest! I'm not the oldest! I'm not the oldest!
(Ok, so I'll be 49 next month)

Welcome Andrea. My daughter, Laurie is 24 and I have no young ones.
I do spend time with my young nephews from time-to-time and I'm not
sure I could handle having a little one 24/7. I have enough trouble
keeping up with Laurie now. :-)

Enjoy the paradigm shifting!

love, Valerie

Webinfusion

Hi Andrea,

I'm new to this list, an older (40) mom to a dd, 28 months.

You wrote:

>Or even if I know them ds is requesting so many things so fast I can't keep up with
>him. Example: I am trying to clean up the glop from a big, abandoned clay
>project on the kitchen table; he is already in the yard screaming at me to, not
>just find his boots (which, by the way, he can clearly see and easily get on),
>but go outside immediately and put them on his feet while he stands astride his
>bicycle. Even as I write this I can see that, when well rested, I can
>multitask cleaning glop and putting boots on. But when I'm not, I can't! Though I
>still struggle with should I necessarily "drop the glop" and rush to put boots
>on. And I don't like being screamed at. (He was already on his bicycle when
>he decided he wanted the boots and didn't want to get off.)

>So, I'm interested in what others might have to say about balancing personal
>needs with parenting. How do you get time for yourself?

I was thinking that one way to get a bit more time to yourself might be to discuss with ds the things he is able to do for himself, and agree that he will, for instance get his own boots on, or clean up his clay himself. I am starting to do this w/dd asking her to help pick up things she spills, for instance. It doesn't always work, but she does see that it needs to be done, and how it's done. And sometimes she does it herself now, and often will help.

And she gets to feel that sense of accomplishment each time she does something for herself, which to me is priceless:-) He may not clean up the clay as well as you in the beginning, but you can always add the finishing touches if needed for you both to feel satisfied.

Warmly,
Tracy






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kbb1109

Andrea...I can definitely empathize. I have the same type of
intense 4 y/o ds and he can totally exhaust me. I think the mental
exhaustion can be as hard as the physical. My dd who is 6 is very
quiet and laid back. And then along came my energy boy. The best
time for me to find quiet time is in the early morning. I get up
before the kids most days. I have a part time job and telecommute
from home. That is when I can concentrate and get things done. I
wish I was able to stay awake in the evening, but, I am out shortly
after ds falls asleep. Of course, that makes finding time for dh and
myself challenging also. It is really comforting to read about
others with similar situations. I am really enjoying this board.

Karen

Dina Fraize

I think unschooling is more about us than them :) it
is all a process for me. i have 5 kids, 2 are quiet
older and 3 are 8 and under. I think that it is very
difficult to find time to do something that gives to
you and sometimes even harder to figure out what that
something is. Just this year i am really feeling a
flow to our lives and finally feel as though i am
figuring out what i need and what fills me up and
actually doing it. Part of my shift is in not trying
to find time to do things alone as much as blending me
and my needs with my childs. I think it is so
important to do that practice time late at night and
really just love it when it happens. Talk about what
makes you feel peaceful and full to your son. I keep
telling my kids to find what gives them that feeling
and go there as often as they can. I do believe that
my kids need to see me doing things i love, i want
them to see it and remember me enjoying my hobbies and
loves and it doesn't have to be seperate from them
most of the time. One of the things i love this time
of year is the beach and we all feel full and peaceful
there so that is what we have been doing alot lately.

good luck on your path, you will know what is right
for you and your family and it will click for you.

love and peace
dina --- BillAndrea@... wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am Andrea, mom to two great sons: a 29 year old
> and a 4 year old. I joined
> this list from seeing it mentioned on the
> NoMoreSpanking list and have been
> reading posts here somewhat addictively! My older
> son was raised/schooled
> pretty "conventionally-unconventionally" ie
> Montessori school. Now in my second
> career as a mom I am questioning and being forced to
> question a lot. My 29 yo
> has such an accomodating personality I was pretty
> unprepared for my feisty
> 4yo; he's caused me to search within and without for
> noncoercive ways of being
> with him and honoring him. And as my own search for
> authentic living has become
> much more pressing (midlife crisis and all that) I
> really want my 4yo's
> wondrous lifeforce to blossom and not be
> squelched--which of course leads right
> into unschooling. So I appreciate all the posts
> that have stretched my thinking
> and caused me to question a lot of my assumptions.
> Especially discussions of
> bedtimes, tv, food are, to me, probably most helpful
> in "getting" the
> underlying philosophy of trust. I really
> appreciated all the posts about tv limits
> (which I have relaxed though not yet relinquished).
> A lightbulb for me was the
> post about "what you do" when you remove the
> arbitrary limit--ie. you sit with
> your child while he watches, you initiate
> discussions, answer questions,
> offer input about what might scare him. There is so
> much real learning taking
> place--and also it is a lot more effort than just
> making up a rule (though come
> to think of it it may be less effort than enforcing
> said rule). So I am in
> quite a state of flux and in the middle of
> integrating a lot of new ideas I've
> gotten here. Many thanks to the list owners and all
> the posters!
>
> My main fear in homeschooling ds (from here on, that
> means the 4 yo) is the
> recognition of my own needs and the limits on my
> energy. Both my dh and I have
> always felt like we can never quite keep up
> energy-wise with ds (okay, I am
> 49 but my dh is only 40!). From birth he has always
> needed/demanded a lot of
> attention (I don't mean that in a negative way, just
> that he was a baby who
> never wanted to be put down, slept relatively
> little, etc.) Ds continues to
> sleep little, is just now winding down on nursing,
> and still wants to be with me
> *all* the time. He is the type of child who wants
> LOTS of interaction, not
> just to play on his own while in the same room as
> me. (I know he is only 4 but
> I'm talking about for short periods, not all day!)
> That plus various other
> reasons--no extended family in this area, dh works
> long hours, we live outside of
> town so trading child care is difficult--means there
> is just not much down
> time for me. I want to honor the wonderful,
> creative person ds is but there
> seems to be a lack of balance that does affect my
> ability to be patient and fresh
> and creative with situations. Ds has, I think, a
> basically more force-full
> nature than I do and from reading the "spirited
> child" type books I've come to
> see that while he is "spirited" in the sense of
> persistence and energy I am
> "spirited" in the sense of having a lot of
> sensitivity issues and a big need for
> quiet and space. (And my energy level is a little
> lower than it was 25 years
> ago.) And while I can put some of my needs aside,
> over the long haul of
> parenting they do have to be honored to some extent
> or it just is not helpful to
> any of us. (I guess I wrote that last sentence
> mostly for myself, because it's
> really hard for me to see this!)
>
> Gradually from reading various posts I've come to
> see that a lot of my
> "rules" are a kind of backwards way of honoring my
> own needs. Giving up an
> automatic/arbitrary rule means I have to be in touch
> with what my needs are right now
> and being able to articulate them enough so we can
> jointly come up with a
> workable situation. Sometimes I can do this though
> I get the feeling I haven't
> had much practice with it! The other day ds wanted
> to stop at Barnes & Noble
> (enroute home from another activity) and look at
> children's books. I first
> started to say No, this is the time you usually fall
> asleep and you'll be grumpy
> and tired. He challenged me (good for him!) and,
> thanks to this list, I was
> able to identify that (1) I was not able to buy
> anything that day and (2) I
> would probably start feeling woozy (from lighting,
> time since I last ate, etc.)
> after about 30 minutes. I stated my own needs and
> we were able to agree on
> "only looking" and a time limit that he actually
> honored (leaving B&N is often
> *very* hard for us!).
>
> But often I am unable to, on-the-fly, figure out my
> own limitations. Or even
> if I know them ds is requesting so many things so
> fast I can't keep up with
> him. Example: I am trying to clean up the glop from
> a big, abandoned clay
> project on the kitchen table; he is already in the
> yard screaming at me to, not
> just find his boots (which, by the way, he can
> clearly see and easily get on),
> but go outside immediately and put them on his feet
> while he stands astride his
> bicycle. Even as I write this I can see that, when
> well rested, I can
> multitask cleaning glop and putting boots on. But
> when I'm not, I can't! Though I
> still struggle with should I necessarily "drop the
> glop" and rush to put boots
> on. And I don't like being screamed at. (He was
> already on his bicycle when
> he decided he wanted the boots and didn't want to
> get off.)
>
> So, I'm interested in what others might have to say
> about balancing personal
> needs with parenting. How do you get time for
> yourself? I do just a bit of
> freelance music (would like to feel free to do more)
> and it seems like such a
> struggle to get practice time in. Ds grabs at my
> instrument if I try to
> practice, seeing it as a rival for my attention. I
> haven't had much luck with
> helping him find something he can do alongside me as
> I practice, so I do it after
> he goes to bed (and that means if he chooses a much
> later bedtime than usual,
> it gets really hard). It seems like my life really
> has to be integrated into
> our communal life. As it is now, I feel I am trying
> to cram it all in during
> the rare times we are apart--and something seems
> wrong with that picture.
>
> A rare exception: last night it was late, he wasn't
> tired, I said I really
> had to practice. He himself (!) suggested that he
> color in my "Anatomy Coloring
> Workbook" (his latest fave thing to do) while I
> practice! So we did till
> 11:15 pm, interspersing practice/coloring with
> investigations of what each
> other's clavicle felt like, etc. That was great!
>
> Of course, he was up at 6:30, same as usual.
>
> Thanks for reading this long post.
>
> Andrea, possibly in the middle of a major paradigm
> shift
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>




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