Deb Lewis

***he gave several people we
knew who work in the restaurant origami things- they didn't quite know
how to respond, looked confused but were polite.
he went around asking everyone if they did Origami too. no one did.
and he got a lot of weird looks.***

Were you embarrassed? You missed a moment to really watch your son and
get a glimpse of the joy he was experiencing. *You* turned it into
something weird. : (

***We went to a campfire and he asked his dad to bring his origami book
and paper and a flashlight. he made Origami all night.***

Would you be writing here if one of the other moms there had brought her
knitting and worked on a sweater all night?

***he has not eaten despite my
sugestions that maybe he needs to do that and its now 5pm. ***

Take him some crackers and cheese or sliced apples; Anything he can grab
quickly and shove into his head with one hand. Take him a drink. Put
it right beside him, tell him it's there.

***I wonder if this will become an issue if I do not
strongly encourage/remind him to eat, take a shower ect.***

More likely it will become an issue if you work against him. Sit down
with him and ask him to show you how to make something. Be with him, be
engaged, talk to him about it, learn something about origami yourself and
share it with him, help him hang his cranes like a mobile, and maybe
you'll begin to understand why he likes it so much. Maybe you'd like
kirigami, too. Maybe you could get all your Christmas cards made early,
if you sit with him and do kirigami cards while he enjoys his paper
folding. Don't turn his joyful work into a disorder.

Look here: http://tinyurl.com/e5jos

Google "paper folding math" or "paper folding geometry" or paper folding
art" and see how many people out there believe it's important work. But
please don't try to teach him about math if you do look at some of the
google hits. Let his work be about what he wants, not what you'd like
to turn it into, not about what's acceptable to you.

When surgeons work twenty four hours and don't stop to sleep or eat, we
say they're dedicated. When kids work twenty four hours and don't stop
to sleep or eat people say "obsessed." It's insulting. It one more way
we openly discriminate against kids.

Deb Lewis

"There's a hole in every man the size of the truth and I'm going to jam
it in there."
~Stephen Colbert

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Deb Lewis

***Maybe limiting the time spent doing the origami will help.***

No it won't. Limits only make people want the thing more. Children's
lives are already full of irritating limits. Their size prohibits
reaching some things they'd like to touch. Their small hand prohibit
holding some tools they'd like to use. Lets not be giving advice about
how to further limit children. This list is here to help people open up
a world of opportunities for their kids.

***Like
say after you eat you can go do this.... I tell my son that he has to
do something else for awhile then can go back.***

After you learn about unschooling you can offer advice here. You have to
read about unschooling and then you can come back. <beg>

***I know this does go
against unschooling but sometimes I really feel we need to do something
else. ***

Don't offer advice that goes against unschooling on this list, please.
Let the "something else" be something that helps kids move out into a big
world not something that confines kids to a small box.

***If you go to the restraunt maybe the origami stuff needs to stay
home.***

I always take a notebook to a restaurant so I can write down ideas or
words or phrases I might want to use in some awful poem or story.
My friend always takes her phone so she can call other friends and say
"I'm having strawberry pie right now what are you doing." <g>

***I would just try limiting because it can make you nervous.***

Making kids feel bad so moms can feel better is terrible. It's terrible
advice and it's a terrible tactic and a mean thing to do. Moms are
supposed to be finding ways to make the world available to kids.

***He will move onto a new passion one day, until then just
encourage(sometimes strongly) something new***

This little person has found something beautiful that he loves. He's
enjoying himself, he's happy, he's making art and doing important work .

His mom should help him do what he wants to do.

Deb Lewis

drusila00

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>
wrote:

> Were you embarrassed? You missed a moment to really watch your
son and get a glimpse of the joy he was experiencing. *You* turned
it into something weird. : (>>>>>

No I did not.
I was not embarassed, I simply sat quietly and smiled thinking that
he is one of the most giving people I have ever known. but I noticed
the looks others gave him and the ones they gave me as if to say "is
he normal?" You can't not notice the looks. I just smiled and
shrugged.

Would you be writing here if one of the other moms there had brought
her knitting and worked on a sweater all night?>>

Again I was not complaining just telling it like it is to
illistrate the depth of his focus.

>>>Take him some crackers and cheese or sliced apples; Anything he
can grabquickly and shove into his head with one hand. Take him a
drink. Put it right beside him, tell him it's there. >>>

Serriously, I have been his parent long enough to do that and I did
and he shpowed no interest. a bit of a worry for me but I in no way
expect him to starve himself It is just a drastic change for him to
ignore his favorite foods for many meals in a row.


Mostly I wrote the post not to beliettle him but to illustrate why I
might be nervious and to see if anyone else ever felt nervious or
experianced somthing similer.
but thanks for your imput.

Deb Lewis

**...we do have to limit TV and such.***
***...limit certain things just to get my kids to go outside and get
fresh
air.***

***I do have limits when we just want to sit
down and eat. ***

***... demanding is actually putting it lightly...***
***He has a extremely bad temper>>>***
***My oldest has a violent temper and youngest mimics what he sees in big
bubba. ***

***I am the one who had to deal with him taking scissors to a kids ear in
school ***

***It worked for us never aid it would for anyone else.. ***


How have the limits worked, then? Because if your family has had these
major issues it sounds like the limits haven't worked.

There are certain personality types that submit to control (few) and
certain others (more common) that resist. The more control, the greater
the resistance. The trap is in thinking that we can ever control
another person in the first place. The trick is in working with the
other person to help them reach their goals in healthy ways.

Some moms here can tell you about their peaceful family life without
limits. It doesn't happen overnight in cases where there have been tight
controls on kids, but the continuation of control will/can lead to a
damaged relationship and a stressful home life.

***So maybe I need to move
to the homeschool group because we still have schedules to keep here***

Lots of us have schedules and commitments. That's not an excuse. You
might find exactly what you want at another list, support for how you're
doing things now, sympathy for what you've been through, agreement about
your son. But if you're willing to look at what has or hasn't really
worked to help your son be happier, people here can help you. By the
time some parents realize their kids need something different there have
been years and years of unhappy family relations. That won't change
overnight but it won't change at all if the parents don't change
themselves.

I have an adult scissors story. My friend had always wanted to be a
teacher. Somewhere along the way that job was glamorized in his head.
He didn't live with his own two kids and maybe part of it was his desire
to be a positive force in lives of children. When he was in his forties
he became what's called a non traditional teacher in Arkansas. He
taught for two years. He became very disillusion when he couldn't
"control" the kids. His weeks became power struggles with the kids.
The school had a policy against hoodies and one kid wouldn't get rid of
his hoodie. My friend took scissors to the kid's sweatshirt and cut the
hood off. Right in the classroom. A grown man, who *chose* to be at
the school everyday, got so caught up in his struggle for power he took
scissors to a kid.

If your kid is fighting for control to the point he's not thinking
clearly, it's probably an indication that he feels powerless. People
can't live that way. He needs new tools for coping with the things that
are out of his control (other people) and he needs help from you in
finding ways to have control of his own life.

Deb Lewis

Pamela Sorooshian

On May 15, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Deb Lewis wrote:

> If your kid is fighting for control to the point he's not thinking
> clearly, it's probably an indication that he feels powerless. People
> can't live that way. He needs new tools for coping with the things
> that
> are out of his control (other people) and he needs help from you in
> finding ways to have control of his own life.

And, when the kid is grown, he'll have internalized that urge to
resist and it is very hard to get rid of it. His outlook on life will
be through the lenses of resisting other people trying to control him.

-pam

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