[email protected]

You wrote:

2.5 yos don't need to play with other kids. If they're asking they
don't mean the same thing that a 6 yo does.
So true! I've found that when other 2 year olds Moms say that their kids miss
their friends or want to have a playdate it is usually the Mom's wishes or
just the kids repeating what they've heard from their moms or older siblings.
You and your daughter have plenty of time to go to playgroups and make friends.
Why rush things?

I have found some playgroups to be like an unhealthy extension of
dysfunctional high school where everyone is trying to out do each other with regard to
parenting and their children's development. Its like a contest. It sounds like
you may be caught up in that. There is no reason to compare your 2.5 year
old to others or expect her to act a certain way because other people claim
their little ones are doing something remarkable. Revel in your daughter's
uniqueness and follow her lead. Trust her to know what she needs and wants and read
her cues. If you take the playgroup people out of the picture and stop
comparing her to other kids you will see that she is absolutely perfect in every
way. If your daughter read what you have written about her I think she be
devastated by what you've said. She has probably overheard you saying similar
things to your friends, family or spouse. Consider her self esteem. She won't
feel good about herself because she has a lot of friends and an active social
life at age 2 but what you think and say about her will deeply affect her self
esteem.

I read a book 8-9 years ago about raising a gifted child (when I was trying
to keep my 2 year old up to speed and I was caught up in the drama some new
parents create for themselves) and one of the few things I remember from it is
that limiting contact with other children is very healthy for young, brilliant
children. It was worded something like: Preschool aged children should have
limited contact with outsiders. I retained nothing else from that book so I
guess that is all I needed to learn from it at the time. It slowed us down back
then.

Playgroups at that age aren't really for the children, they're for the Moms.
I learned that 9 years ago, too. That's why they're usually called a Mom's
club and not a children's club. Are you willing to look at other options for
yourself?

Best wishes,
Robin in MA, who has been responding a lot because it has been raining here
for days. I am thirsty for social interaction but my kids just want to create
a Fashion Polly world here in the den. They are taking their dolls on a
cruise this morning, life vests and all.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 5/12/06, ohpurple1@... <ohpurple1@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have found some playgroups to be like an unhealthy extension of
> dysfunctional high school where everyone is trying to out do each other
> with regard to
> parenting and their children's development. Its like a contest.


And it doesn't end after the toddler years. I have been amazed at how many
of the parents of homeschoolers have children who are "wunderkinds" in their
eyes. "Oh, well, my Johnny was playing violin when he was 3 and now at 10
he has completed all his requirements for high school graduation. He has
decided to study astronomic physics" or bragging about their wonderful
scores on "such and such standardized test." And there sits Johnny as bored
and sad as can be. :(

There was an episode of Law & Order that I caught the other night. I think
it was Criminal Intent. But it portrayed a dad who had homeschooled his son
and his son was one of these supposed "super geniuses." The kid was
miserable in his life. All he wanted to do was play baseball. All his
father wanted him to do was be "the best" literally. Pushed him so hard and
sucked all the joy out of life. It was all or nothing. I felt so sad for
this little boy. If memory serves me correct he told his father that he
wasn't going to get the psych evaluation he needed to get into some
prestigious school (which was a lie) so the father killed the psych
evaluator. The boy was hoping that if he didn't get into this school he
could play baseball on Saturdays. There was a "happy" part to the story in
that one of the other kids who had been in this same program and dropped out
was portrayed as a happy easy going and following his own dreams kid. Must
have gotten ahold of the Teenage Liberation Handbook :) But I see parents
like this all the time. I run into other homeschooling families when we go
out. Mom at a park with 3 school aged kids during school = homeschool.
They strike up a conversation and the first thing they start doing is
grilling you on what grade your children are doing and what curriculum you
are using and how far "ahead" they are. They are shocked when I say, "We
don't use a curriculum and I have no idea what grade the kids would be in."
And it is true. We went to the bookstore and were talking to the children's
manager about other books Mary Elayne might like and the manager asked me
what grade she was in. I just stood there with a blank stare because A) I
have no clue (the kids figured out she would be entering 5th grade - maybe
6th LOL), and B) grade has no bearing on reading ability nor interest.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
> They strike up a conversation and the first thing they start doing
>is
> grilling you on what grade your children are doing and what
>curriculum you
> are using and how far "ahead" they are. They are shocked when I
>say, "We
> don't use a curriculum and I have no idea what grade the kids
>would be in."
> And it is true. We went to the bookstore and were talking to the
>children's
> manager about other books Mary Elayne might like and the manager
>asked me
> what grade she was in. I just stood there with a blank stare
>because A) I
> have no clue (the kids figured out she would be entering 5th
>grade - maybe
> 6th LOL), and B) grade has no bearing on reading ability nor
>interest.
>
DS (he's almost 8 and never been schooled) thinks that simply
saying "we homeschool" should answer/end any questions related to
grade levels or subjects or anything school-related. As far as he's
concerned, grade levels don't exist when you "homeschool". When
we've been asked what grade he's in, we just say "He's almost 8" or
whatever his current age is and let them assume whatever they choose
to assume. One time, a newish-acquaintance (who knew
we "homeschooled" but that's about it) asked him what his favorite
subject was. I paused, to give him time to answer if he wanted to,
and I could see him thinking really hard. Then he got a big smile on
his face and he said "Videogames!" and wandered away. I thought it a
wonderful answer. He got asked what grade he was in last Friday by a
friend we hadn't seen in a while who homeschooled her own kids for
about 9 years (the youngest is now in high school, the middle one is
in college and the eldest is in the Air Force). He just said "we
homeschool". Then she noticed our chalkboard (an 8'x4' section of
kitchen wall - hard to miss lol!) He proceeded to point out stuff on
it - the protein list, the multiplication table, etc (things he's
asked to have available). So, she asked him what his favorite
subject was. He pondered and pondered and pondered and I said "we
don't have subjects". So then she said "Oh, you unschool?" I said
Yup (hey, she knew the terminology - 1 point for her). Then, I could
tell she was really trying, she said "so what is your favorite thing
you've been learning about? What do you like to do?" he still
pondered and thought and didn't answer really. Later on, DH
said "Hmm could we be missing something here?" (not that he's likely
to do anything different - he's 100% sold on unschooling - but maybe
we've gotten staganant, need to get out of a rut). I said that given
the context of "subjects" and all, I could see where it would be a
tough one for DS to answer. While we were chatting (she's just
started Mary Kay so she was doing a facial for me), DS was bopping
in and out, watching what was happening, chatting about stuff he was
doing, in general being his usual exuberant, curious, verbal self.
If she didn't 'get' that he loves Star Wars by the time she left,
she wasn't paying attention LOL.

--Deb

Melissa

Josh very seriously had one of those kids in his cub scout pack. It
was painful because even a kid sent to public school gets a break
from overachieving parents. But he was stuck at a table with his mom
or dad for ten hours a DAY...and it spilled over into everything. The
kid had to do every achievement in the scout handbook, was way ahead
in every academic standard. He was very serious, unable to smile, and
I wonder what things we could not see. The dad was a prig, anyway,
and not very nice to the boys when he was there. We aren't the drop
and run type of parents, and I'm thankful. I called him down so many
times that it got to be a joke. They have so many curricula listed in
the homeschooling directory that they took up two boxes!

And that was yet another deciding factor in how NOT to homeschool ;-)

Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On May 12, 2006, at 7:15 AM, Pampered Chef Michelle wrote:
>
> And it doesn't end after the toddler years. I have been amazed at
> how many
> of the parents of homeschoolers have children who are "wunderkinds"
> in their
> eyes. "Oh, well, my Johnny was playing violin when he was 3 and
> now at 10
> he has completed all his requirements for high school graduation.
> He has
> decided to study astronomic physics" or bragging about their wonderful
> scores on "such and such standardized test." And there sits Johnny
> as bored
> and sad as can be. :(

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
> On 5/12/06, ohpurple1@... <ohpurple1@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have found some playgroups to be like an unhealthy extension of
> > dysfunctional high school where everyone is trying to out do
each other
> > with regard to
> > parenting and their children's development. Its like a contest.
>
>
> And it doesn't end after the toddler years. I have been amazed at
how many
> of the parents of homeschoolers have children who
are "wunderkinds" in their
> eyes. "Oh, well, my Johnny was playing violin when he was 3 and
now at 10
> he has completed all his requirements for high school graduation.
He has
> decided to study astronomic physics" or bragging about their
wonderful
> scores on "such and such standardized test." And there sits
Johnny as bored
> and sad as can be. :(
>


Do keep in mind, though, that not all accelerated/high achieving
kids are pushed. (The example above doesn't sound self-propelled,
btw.) I know some kids who were held back by parents -- one wanted
to start college (and probably was ready) at 8, but the parents
said, no, and made him wait another year or so. Parents of kids
like that are often accused of pushing, when they would so much love
to have a more relaxed pace -- but the child is pushing, internally
driven. I wanted to mention this so that others here are aware of
this, and don't reflexively assume that an advanced child is a
pushed child.

Linda

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 5/12/06, trektheory <trektheory@...> wrote:
>
>
> Do keep in mind, though, that not all accelerated/high achieving
> kids are pushed. (The example above doesn't sound self-propelled,
> btw.) I know some kids who were held back by parents -- one wanted
> to start college (and probably was ready) at 8, but the parents
> said, no, and made him wait another year or so. Parents of kids
> like that are often accused of pushing, when they would so much love
> to have a more relaxed pace -- but the child is pushing, internally
> driven. I wanted to mention this so that others here are aware of
> this, and don't reflexively assume that an advanced child is a
> pushed child.


While I have no doubt that a child of 8 has the capacity to learn all the
things needed to enter college, I would wonder *why* an 8 yo CHILD would
want to go to college? There is some driving force somewhere, either from
society or even parents seemingly benignly mentioning it. I love that a
child has the desire to want to learn deeper and broader things, but why the
drive for college? Something is pushing this child. She didn't get the
idea to go to college on her own. :)

I have a child that, had I done the "right" pushing, would be one of these
"wunderkinds" (although I think all my kids are pretty wunderbar!) She's
bright, articulate, and understands things in ways I never could. She isn't
daunted by numbers, never has been. The little bit she was in school in 5th
grade she went round and round with her teacher about having to show her
math work. He would say, "I need to know how you got the answer." She
would counter, "Is the problem wrong?" "No; but I need to know that you
understand what you are doing." "Is the problem wrong?" "No; but how did
you get to the solution?" "It's just in my head. The answer is the only
logical solution." Once she understands how a theory works she is able to
apply it to anything given to her. So the working out long multiplication
numbers or algebraic equations was a tad pointless to her. She's like her
dad in that she remembers everything she reads or watches on tv. She
memorizes songs after listening to them only a time or two. Her favorite
thing to do is learn songs in foreign languages (particularly Latin or
Japanese) and sing them. She watches anime in Japanese and while she has
never taken a class she follows the story somehow. I've sat with her and
watched them and am totally lost. I will periodically be able to pick out a
word or phrase that I remember from my childhood, but that's about it.
She'll laugh and I'll ask why and she can tell me what it was that happened
that was so funny.

I've had several people ask me why she isn't doing "thus in such" program or
why I'm not pushing her and my response is, "She only gets once to be a
child. She has her whole life to learn things and decide what she is going
to do with it." What would a 12 yo be able to do with a college degree?
I've met a few of these children who have college degrees by age 10 or 12
and they seem so lost. Here they are in a grown up world and they haven't
even hit puberty yet! They have the information of the adult world, but
none of the true understanding of that world. They have few peers because
they don't fit in anywhere. When I was in high school there was an 8yo in
our senior class. He was fodder for the bullies and ignored by advanced
placement students. He didn't know how to interact with other kids. If you
got him into a conversation it was always scholastic-natured. If you asked
him what his favorite color was he would say it was irrelevant because there
was no way to preference colors. He had no scientific data to support that
one color should or could be better than another.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paige

> She watches anime in Japanese and while she has
> never taken a class she follows the story somehow. I've sat with
her and
> watched them and am totally lost.

This is a joke on my older sister. Her dh was watching anime in
Japanese one night while she was reading. He changed it over to
English without her knowing and suddenly she was able to understand
what they were saying! She sat up and said, "I can understand
Japanese!" He nearly died laughing at her. He also told everyone
he could think of...she is SO embarassed! We get threats when we
mention it. (he he he)

> What would a 12 yo be able to do with a college degree?
> I've met a few of these children who have college degrees by age
10 or 12
> and they seem so lost. Here they are in a grown up world and they
haven't
> even hit puberty yet!
My dh used to work with a girl who finished college, I believe, at
13...could have been 14. She was too young to get a job...she was
finished with school...she had no ambition past finishing college,
so when she was finished, there was nothing else. The last time I
saw her she was still just wandering aimlessly not doing anything.
She was so lonely...all her friends were left in school, and she had
nothing in common with older people. Very sad, really.
Paige

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>

>
> While I have no doubt that a child of 8 has the capacity to learn
all the
> things needed to enter college, I would wonder *why* an 8 yo CHILD
would
> want to go to college? There is some driving force somewhere,
either from
> society or even parents seemingly benignly mentioning it. I love
that a
> child has the desire to want to learn deeper and broader things,
but why the
> drive for college? Something is pushing this child. She didn't
get the
> idea to go to college on her own. :)

Well, actually, HE did. But also keep in mind, some kids have IQ's
in the upper 200's -- no joke -- and they are hungry for knowledge.
There is an analogy that teaching gifted kids in regular classrooms
is like feeding an elephant one blade of grass at a time. It will
starve to death without ever realizing you were feeding it. There
really are self-driven kids. Because you don't know them, doesn't
mean they don't exist. If they are literally one (or less) in a
million -- how many millions of people do you know? (And if you
know that many, when did you ever find time to count? :-))

The mom has posted, sadly, that her son views his time when younger,
having played (and, she added, he was happy playing) as having been
a waste. She finds this very sad.


>
> I've had several people ask me why she isn't doing "thus in such"
program or
> why I'm not pushing her and my response is, "She only gets once to
be a
> child. She has her whole life to learn things and decide what she
is going
> to do with it." What would a 12 yo be able to do with a college
degree?

Actually, he wanted to go to grad school, but again, they made him
take a year off -- and he actually worked, freelancing. Next year,
he is going to grad school, and they are allowing him to. If they
held him back more, I suspect that he would resent it. And -- btw,
they actually were unschoolers for quite a while, until he went to
college -- isn't unschooling about respecting your child's own
self? Their desires in learning? In life?


> I've met a few of these children who have college degrees by age
10 or 12
> and they seem so lost. Here they are in a grown up world and they
haven't
> even hit puberty yet! They have the information of the adult
world, but
> none of the true understanding of that world. They have few peers
because
> they don't fit in anywhere. When I was in high school there was
an 8yo in
> our senior class. He was fodder for the bullies and ignored by
advanced
> placement students. He didn't know how to interact with other
kids. If you
> got him into a conversation it was always scholastic-natured. If
you asked
> him what his favorite color was he would say it was irrelevant
because there
> was no way to preference colors. He had no scientific data to
support that
> one color should or could be better than another.
>

Yet, he may well have been fodder for bullies in "age appropriate"
grades as well. The fact that his conversation was always
scholastic makes me wonder if there was something else going on --
aspergers or some such.

For every "disaster" grade-acceleration story, there are many more
successes, but administrators don't ever notice them. Just like in
the paper, there are always lots of bad news stories, and few if any
positive ones.

To be honest, some kids really just don't fit in schools, no matter
what. And what is right for one kid, isn't right for the next, even
if on paper their "scores" are the same.

BTW, my son used to always have a different favorite color. I used
to ask him what it was today -- could be blue, black, pink, silver,
gray,.... Now he says he doesn't really have a favorite color.
Gotta love quirky kids!

Linda

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Paige <paigehughes1972@...>

This is a joke on my older sister. Her dh was watching anime in
Japanese one night while she was reading. He changed it over to
English without her knowing and suddenly she was able to understand
what they were saying! She sat up and said, "I can understand
Japanese!" He nearly died laughing at her. He also told everyone
he could think of...she is SO embarassed! We get threats when we
mention it. (he he he)

-=-=-=-=-

When we lived in Germany, a friend of mine was visiting. We were going
to a few weeks of dog shows and field trials. I translated
*constantly*---word by word for over a week. Listened to the Germans,
translated to English, listened for Elena's response, and translated to
German. Over and over and over.

Then someone walked up and started talking to me and Elena about a
certain dog. I continued to "translate" for her---word for word from
English to....English! <G> The German spoke English! I simply repeated
him word for word! Everyone cracked up, and Elena has gotten plenty of
mileage out of that! Kelly can translate ENGLISH! <g>

I'll never live that down! <G>

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi