Rules vs. Principles -- safety concerns
Malinda Mills
Since beginning unschooling, I have become SO much more relaxed when it comes to arbitrary rules. I'm quite proud of myself, actually! I have seen firsthand how stress has really dissipated from our home and how the relationship between Tristan and I has improved. I do have a question, though, when it comes to safety related issues.
Here's an example that's arisen over the past day or so....Right now there are a number of folks who are setting up their trampolines in our neighborhood, and Tristan is wanting, of course, to be a part of the fun. To be honest, I'm not comfortable AT ALL with him playing on one in our neighborhood.
I know trampolines aren't inherently dangerous. I remember as a kid playing on them, and they are darn fun, I admit!! The thing is, there is absolutely NO adult supervision of any kind in our neighborhood (I've seen 2-yr-olds wandering around ALONE for long periods of time). It's not uncommon to see 8-10 people at a time on these tramps. Tristan (9) actually helped construct one today (with a 12-yr-old). No adults even bothered to check it over once the KIDS put it together....
If I knew there were certain principles regarding safety and supervision at these homes, I wouldn't have much of a problem. Now I know if I give Tristan a resounding "NO" in regards to trampolines, they are bound to become an irresistible forbidden fruit to him. Should I simply talk to him about the safety issues I'm concerned about? What if he still doesn't see the potential dangers?
I know my best bet is to try to find a safe environment for him to play on one, but I don't know of ANYONE who has a trampoline where he can safely bounce to his heart's content. Talking to the parents who own these trampolines isn't much of an option either. Most are quite hostile and really don't see anything dangerous about the situation. Unfortunately, we can't get our own trampoline, as our yard just couldn't handle its size (we all have teeny, tiny yards...some of these tramps are mere inches from the street).
Any insight from y'all would be greatly appreciated!
Malinda
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Here's an example that's arisen over the past day or so....Right now there are a number of folks who are setting up their trampolines in our neighborhood, and Tristan is wanting, of course, to be a part of the fun. To be honest, I'm not comfortable AT ALL with him playing on one in our neighborhood.
I know trampolines aren't inherently dangerous. I remember as a kid playing on them, and they are darn fun, I admit!! The thing is, there is absolutely NO adult supervision of any kind in our neighborhood (I've seen 2-yr-olds wandering around ALONE for long periods of time). It's not uncommon to see 8-10 people at a time on these tramps. Tristan (9) actually helped construct one today (with a 12-yr-old). No adults even bothered to check it over once the KIDS put it together....
If I knew there were certain principles regarding safety and supervision at these homes, I wouldn't have much of a problem. Now I know if I give Tristan a resounding "NO" in regards to trampolines, they are bound to become an irresistible forbidden fruit to him. Should I simply talk to him about the safety issues I'm concerned about? What if he still doesn't see the potential dangers?
I know my best bet is to try to find a safe environment for him to play on one, but I don't know of ANYONE who has a trampoline where he can safely bounce to his heart's content. Talking to the parents who own these trampolines isn't much of an option either. Most are quite hostile and really don't see anything dangerous about the situation. Unfortunately, we can't get our own trampoline, as our yard just couldn't handle its size (we all have teeny, tiny yards...some of these tramps are mere inches from the street).
Any insight from y'all would be greatly appreciated!
Malinda
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Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/2/06, Malinda Mills <saprswife@...> wrote:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/085.html that has information on safe use
of trampolines. It includes many of the things that you voiced a concern
about. Perhaps you could share this with your son and let him see that this
consumer protection group has these guidelines and agree to go by those
guidelines when using the trampoline. It includes such things as single
person use, padded springs, enclosures, parental supervision and not doing
flips. Perhaps if he sees that these aren't just your rules but safety
guidelines that the government (and most likely the trampoline industry)
puts out he would see why you want him to be safe while using this seemingly
fun toy.
I was injured very badly on a trampoline when I was a kid. There were
probably 5 kids on the trampoline and we were all doing flips. I landed
wrong on my neck. I had severe neck and back pain for quite some time due
to it. Something I never told my parents about because I knew I wasn't
supposed to be on the trampoline to begin with (much less with 5 other kids
and doing flips). I'm lucky I didn't kill myself or worse caused permanent
paralysis (She has got to get her priorities straight.)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>They are more dangerous than most people believe. I found this webpage:
> Here's an example that's arisen over the past day or so....Right now there
> are a number of folks who are setting up their trampolines in our
> neighborhood, and Tristan is wanting, of course, to be a part of the
> fun. To be honest, I'm not comfortable AT ALL with him playing on one in
> our neighborhood.
>
> I know trampolines aren't inherently dangerous.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/085.html that has information on safe use
of trampolines. It includes many of the things that you voiced a concern
about. Perhaps you could share this with your son and let him see that this
consumer protection group has these guidelines and agree to go by those
guidelines when using the trampoline. It includes such things as single
person use, padded springs, enclosures, parental supervision and not doing
flips. Perhaps if he sees that these aren't just your rules but safety
guidelines that the government (and most likely the trampoline industry)
puts out he would see why you want him to be safe while using this seemingly
fun toy.
I was injured very badly on a trampoline when I was a kid. There were
probably 5 kids on the trampoline and we were all doing flips. I landed
wrong on my neck. I had severe neck and back pain for quite some time due
to it. Something I never told my parents about because I knew I wasn't
supposed to be on the trampoline to begin with (much less with 5 other kids
and doing flips). I'm lucky I didn't kill myself or worse caused permanent
paralysis (She has got to get her priorities straight.)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/2006 5:45:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
saprswife@... writes:
Here's an example that's arisen over the past day or so....Right now there
are a number of folks who are setting up their trampolines in our
neighborhood, and Tristan is wanting, of course, to be a part of the fun. To be honest,
I'm not comfortable AT ALL with him playing on one in our neighborhood.
*****************
I don't know if this is possible Malinda, but could you go with him? I have
a trampoline and I tell the neighborhood kids that they can't do anything
"dangerous" unless their parents are there.
Perhaps your neighborhood is not friendly enough, either from geographics to
actual people. But gosh, I would bring a lawn chair and a book and plop
myself down close enough to talk to Tristan!
Let him know that you have specific safety concerns and that as you see how
the children are interracting, those concerns might change a bit. For
example, in our house, a few nicely bouncing children are no concern but a few
amped up kids playing tackling games might be cause to ask them to leave.
Tough one, Malinda! Our solution was just to buy one. Sorry that doesn't
work for you!
Leslie in SC
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saprswife@... writes:
Here's an example that's arisen over the past day or so....Right now there
are a number of folks who are setting up their trampolines in our
neighborhood, and Tristan is wanting, of course, to be a part of the fun. To be honest,
I'm not comfortable AT ALL with him playing on one in our neighborhood.
*****************
I don't know if this is possible Malinda, but could you go with him? I have
a trampoline and I tell the neighborhood kids that they can't do anything
"dangerous" unless their parents are there.
Perhaps your neighborhood is not friendly enough, either from geographics to
actual people. But gosh, I would bring a lawn chair and a book and plop
myself down close enough to talk to Tristan!
Let him know that you have specific safety concerns and that as you see how
the children are interracting, those concerns might change a bit. For
example, in our house, a few nicely bouncing children are no concern but a few
amped up kids playing tackling games might be cause to ask them to leave.
Tough one, Malinda! Our solution was just to buy one. Sorry that doesn't
work for you!
Leslie in SC
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Karen Mann
On 5/2/06, Pampered Chef Michelle <pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
other. it's where you land just before the other and shoot them into the
sky. i must've went up about 15 feet and landed on the side of my foot.
broke my ankle. from that day on, the people that owned the tramp would
only allow one person on at a time. yeah...alot of my friends were mad at
me. so i had a broken ankle and no friends for 6 weeks.
karen
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>same here. there were only two of us though. we were 'springing' each
>
> I was injured very badly on a trampoline when I was a kid.
other. it's where you land just before the other and shoot them into the
sky. i must've went up about 15 feet and landed on the side of my foot.
broke my ankle. from that day on, the people that owned the tramp would
only allow one person on at a time. yeah...alot of my friends were mad at
me. so i had a broken ankle and no friends for 6 weeks.
karen
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freepsgal
This is definitely a tough issue for children to understand. We had
a trampoline with a safety net at our last home. When we were
moving, our insurance company told us that we were NOT allowed to
have a trampoline and that not only would they not write us a policy
for our new home but that they would drop our existing policy if we
didn't get rid of the trampoline. The kids were heartbroken. At
first, I tried selling it on ebay but then discovered our trampoline
was a recalled model. Ack! I always register products when I
purchase them but no one contacted me about that trampoline! It had
been recalled so long before that the business was closed and the
repair kit no longer available.
Since moving into our new home, we have contacted at least 4
insurance companies and each one told us the same thing. No
policy. Period. In fact one of them said that because we even
showed an interest in a trampoline they would be unable to write us
a policy. My DH talked at length with one guy and he admitted that
trampolines were the cause of huge funds in both medical bills and
lawsuits.
My children really miss their trampoline. They are having a
difficult time understanding why they are so "bad" when they never
got hurt on the one we used to own. However, there were some
incidents where their minor booboo could have been much worse. In
an effort to find an appropriate substitution, we purchased a bounce
castle. The kids really like it but it's a little too small. I'm
now looking for a larger one. It's not as great as a trampoline but
it's close enough that they've been happy with it.
Beth M.
a trampoline with a safety net at our last home. When we were
moving, our insurance company told us that we were NOT allowed to
have a trampoline and that not only would they not write us a policy
for our new home but that they would drop our existing policy if we
didn't get rid of the trampoline. The kids were heartbroken. At
first, I tried selling it on ebay but then discovered our trampoline
was a recalled model. Ack! I always register products when I
purchase them but no one contacted me about that trampoline! It had
been recalled so long before that the business was closed and the
repair kit no longer available.
Since moving into our new home, we have contacted at least 4
insurance companies and each one told us the same thing. No
policy. Period. In fact one of them said that because we even
showed an interest in a trampoline they would be unable to write us
a policy. My DH talked at length with one guy and he admitted that
trampolines were the cause of huge funds in both medical bills and
lawsuits.
My children really miss their trampoline. They are having a
difficult time understanding why they are so "bad" when they never
got hurt on the one we used to own. However, there were some
incidents where their minor booboo could have been much worse. In
an effort to find an appropriate substitution, we purchased a bounce
castle. The kids really like it but it's a little too small. I'm
now looking for a larger one. It's not as great as a trampoline but
it's close enough that they've been happy with it.
Beth M.
Deb
--- In [email protected], Leslie530@... wrote:
and then be there with him. Since our DS knows that we wouldn't bother
with it if we didn't see safety issues (be safe is an important
principle to us too). Since we're not constantly telling him no,
don't, stop, etc. when we DO say something, he takes it more
seriously. He may disagree with our assessment and we'll discuss it
and try to work out something where we all are comfortable with the
situation - such as me or DH being on hand when he's doing whatever it
is.
--Deb
>>Hey Leslie I was going to say the same thing - discuss safety issues
> I don't know if this is possible Malinda, but could you go with
>him? I have
> a trampoline and I tell the neighborhood kids that they can't do
>anything
> "dangerous" unless their parents are there.
and then be there with him. Since our DS knows that we wouldn't bother
with it if we didn't see safety issues (be safe is an important
principle to us too). Since we're not constantly telling him no,
don't, stop, etc. when we DO say something, he takes it more
seriously. He may disagree with our assessment and we'll discuss it
and try to work out something where we all are comfortable with the
situation - such as me or DH being on hand when he's doing whatever it
is.
--Deb
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/2006 9:36:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
soggyboysmom@... writes:
Hey Leslie I was going to say the same thing - discuss safety issues
and then be there with him. Since our DS knows that we wouldn't bother
with it if we didn't see safety issues (be safe is an important
principle to us too). Since we're not constantly telling him no,
don't, stop, etc. when we DO say something, he takes it more
seriously. He may disagree with our assessment and we'll discuss it
and try to work out something where we all are comfortable with the
situation - such as me or DH being on hand when he's doing whatever it
is.
--Deb
*********
Well, you said it better, Deb! :)
My kids do tend to take things seriously if I've told them I want to be
present. They found a "clubhouse" recently that is in a bush hanging out over
the lake in our neighborhood. I didn't like anything about it, including the
kids that were drawn to it. So I said something like "that looks like fun and
I can see why you would want to play here. I also see some safety issues
like snakes and falling in the water that I'm not comfortable with, so please
let me know when you want to play here and I'll come, too". I think they went
once and it wasn't much fun. I then helped them find a less dangerous
hidden playplace (that wasn't so attractive to the other kids) and they've never
been back to the dangerous one.
I also am available for tricky kid interractions. If the neighborhood kids
are being mean or unsafe, my children will ask me to be with them to monitor
and help them negotiate. With one kid I went so far to say to him that he
couldn't play with my kids unless there was an adult around, he liked the idea
himself! I think once they realize that we are "on their side" and helping
to keep everyone safe and heard and having a good time, they like adults
around.
Leslie in SC
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soggyboysmom@... writes:
Hey Leslie I was going to say the same thing - discuss safety issues
and then be there with him. Since our DS knows that we wouldn't bother
with it if we didn't see safety issues (be safe is an important
principle to us too). Since we're not constantly telling him no,
don't, stop, etc. when we DO say something, he takes it more
seriously. He may disagree with our assessment and we'll discuss it
and try to work out something where we all are comfortable with the
situation - such as me or DH being on hand when he's doing whatever it
is.
--Deb
*********
Well, you said it better, Deb! :)
My kids do tend to take things seriously if I've told them I want to be
present. They found a "clubhouse" recently that is in a bush hanging out over
the lake in our neighborhood. I didn't like anything about it, including the
kids that were drawn to it. So I said something like "that looks like fun and
I can see why you would want to play here. I also see some safety issues
like snakes and falling in the water that I'm not comfortable with, so please
let me know when you want to play here and I'll come, too". I think they went
once and it wasn't much fun. I then helped them find a less dangerous
hidden playplace (that wasn't so attractive to the other kids) and they've never
been back to the dangerous one.
I also am available for tricky kid interractions. If the neighborhood kids
are being mean or unsafe, my children will ask me to be with them to monitor
and help them negotiate. With one kid I went so far to say to him that he
couldn't play with my kids unless there was an adult around, he liked the idea
himself! I think once they realize that we are "on their side" and helping
to keep everyone safe and heard and having a good time, they like adults
around.
Leslie in SC
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Paige
>>It's not uncommon to see 8-10 people at a time on these tramps.Could he play on one while most of the other children are in school?
That would take care of the piles of people.
My younger dd broke her arm on one a couple years ago and we got rid
of ours. They haven't been on one since, they haven't asked to,
because they know the pain they can cause.
:)
Paige
Malinda Mills
Thanks so much for the link, Michelle! I was planning on searching for something like that this morning...I'll definitely be sharing it with Tristan.
I had a number of friends injured on trampolines as well. To be honest, I'm surprised more of us weren't hurt, since they didn't have the enclosure nets when I was a kid. I remember I usually only jumped with one other person, with bunches of other kids standing around the tramp waiting their turn. Of course there were a few (stupid) instances of us playing "crack the egg" with three people.
The situations I have seen in my neighborhood make me break out into a cold sweat.
Thanks again!
Malinda
I had a number of friends injured on trampolines as well. To be honest, I'm surprised more of us weren't hurt, since they didn't have the enclosure nets when I was a kid. I remember I usually only jumped with one other person, with bunches of other kids standing around the tramp waiting their turn. Of course there were a few (stupid) instances of us playing "crack the egg" with three people.
The situations I have seen in my neighborhood make me break out into a cold sweat.
Thanks again!
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: Pampered Chef Michelle
They are more dangerous than most people believe. I found this webpage:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/085.html that has information on safe use
of trampolines.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
I think that is what I plan on doing, Leslie, if he wants to play on it...thanks!
I don't know what it is about our neighborhood (we live in military housing), but we've had things go on that people honestly wouldn't believe unless they saw it for themselves. I could probably watch Tristan at someone's house for a few hours and NEVER see the parents (several of these trampolines are in front yards).
Malinda
I don't know what it is about our neighborhood (we live in military housing), but we've had things go on that people honestly wouldn't believe unless they saw it for themselves. I could probably watch Tristan at someone's house for a few hours and NEVER see the parents (several of these trampolines are in front yards).
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie530@...
I don't know if this is possible Malinda, but could you go with him? I have
a trampoline and I tell the neighborhood kids that they can't do anything
"dangerous" unless their parents are there.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
Wow, that is harsh! Insurance is actually another reason we have never purchased one.
Malinda
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: freepsgal
In fact one of them said that because we even
showed an interest in a trampoline they would be unable to write us
a policy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Malinda Mills
Oh yes, DH and I do that here as well in regards to a few kids/families. We had two boys that often played in a common area behind my home, and I always sat out on our back porch if they and Tristan were out. Unfortunately, I've expanded that to include several whole families, as I'm more concerned about Tristan being around the PARENTS than I am the kids (they routinely scream and swear at not just their kids but any kid in the neighborhood).
Malinda
Malinda
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie530@...
I also am available for tricky kid interractions. If the neighborhood kids
are being mean or unsafe, my children will ask me to be with them to monitor
and help them negotiate.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/2006 3:20:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
saprswife@... writes:
I don't know what it is about our neighborhood (we live in military
housing), but we've had things go on that people honestly wouldn't believe unless
they saw it for themselves. I could probably watch Tristan at someone's house
for a few hours and NEVER see the parents (several of these trampolines are in
front yards).
*******
I've lived in military housing.....I believe you!
Although some of my civilian neighbors here aren't much better. :(
Hope it all works out.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saprswife@... writes:
I don't know what it is about our neighborhood (we live in military
housing), but we've had things go on that people honestly wouldn't believe unless
they saw it for themselves. I could probably watch Tristan at someone's house
for a few hours and NEVER see the parents (several of these trampolines are in
front yards).
*******
I've lived in military housing.....I believe you!
Although some of my civilian neighbors here aren't much better. :(
Hope it all works out.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]