aplan4life

Just wondering if anyone could recommend a good online support group
for unschoolers for those times when doubt and fear arise. I'm only
asking because of the distinguishment that has been made here for
discussion vs. support.

Thank You in Advance,
Sandy Winn

[email protected]

>>Just wondering if anyone could recommend a good online support group for unschoolers for those times when doubt and fear arise. I'm only asking because of the distinguishment that has been made here for discussion vs. support.>>

I think this is a supportive group even if it isn't a support group. It's just that if you come here for support, you're going to get support that helps you to unschool. I don't minds discussing people's doubts and helping them get through the fear. BTDT :o)

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "aplan4life" <aplan4life@...>

aplan4life

Alright here goes... I thought I was doing well and not letting
things bother me, totally flooding my thoughts with
unschooling...LOVING it, living it and then all of a sudden today, I
found myself depressed.

Zak had asked for his own email account and so we set him one up and
asked Brooke and she wanted one as well. Anyway, he wrote his sister
an email and Brooke said, "Mom, Zak wrote me an email come and see."
I saw the email and thought it was so kind and thoughtful and then
just out of the blue Zaks 'spelling errors' hit me in the face and I
felt sad. Not sad that he had misspelled (right as wright) or
(freeze as freez) and another one but depressed because I started
feeling like *I* am failing him, he used to be an awesome speller.
Failing him by not preparing him properly for the harsh world we live
in; one that pokes fun of those who misspell, who don't know much
about politics, who can't write well, etc.

There is no way that I want to go back to the way I was. Is this
normal after totally embracing unschooling, i.e.; panic attacks on the
part of the parent? Feeling like you are doing the wrong thing to
help prepare your child for a harsh world in which competition and
'academic' knowledge are a major part of? We've been doing this
totally now for over a month. I've been writing in my journal to
'help myself' keep the vision going and the positve momentum flowing
and it was all working great until today.

Any encouraging words would be greatly appreciated.

~Sandy Winn

aplan4life

-- In [email protected], "frozenandcold"
<fivefreebirds@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<he used to be an awesome speller>>>>>
>
> I want to assure you that kids will naturally pick things up as they
> find a need for it but the truth of the matter is that some people
> are just not good spellers. My husband can't spell worth beans but
> spell check works great for him and he makes a darn good living for
> us and has an extremely high IQ so I don't think it has effected his
> life in a negative way at all.


I really do honestly believe that too, actually "know" would be a
better word. I know it has no bearing on a persons intelligence,Zak
has an active and thoughtful mind.

> One of the things that I was really concerned about was my sons
> grammar and it was the one thing that I would wake up in the middle
> of the night worrying about, even though I never mentioned or pushed
> it at all. He is now 13 and has wonderful spelling, punctuation,
> and grammar!! He didn't learn it from me because I never gave him a
> formal lesson but he picked it up from somewhere, namely unlimited
> computer use and lots of reading.

Heidi, that is so wonderful. With gaming and email and IMing it's
hard for children not to want to write, is it? :-) Mine do the same
and I do see marked improvement. My dh last week had a fit "How does
Zak 'know' what a comma is if someone doesn't teach him?" I told him
that the philosophy of unschooling is that if he comes across a comma,
and wants to know what it is, he'll ask. Other than that, because of
reading, he'll come across commas and many children over a period of
time will recognize that it comes during a 'pause'. He was very irate
and said that he doesn't want Zak falling behind and that he is
worried. I stood my ground though and politely told DH that if he
doesn't want to read and take the time to learn about unschooling then
really he needs to just trust me. Of course when I woke the next
morning crying and saying how horrid it felt not to be trusted he felt
like shit (and rightfully so) and apologized several times throughout
the day.

When you say 'grammar' are you referring to the eight parts:
Prepositions, dissecting sentences and all that good stuff or do you
mean grammar as in the way people speak via being around others who
speak? I for the life of me cannot figure out the importance of
knowing any formal grammar but I know that it's tested. I'm sure
there is probably a prep course should my kids ever want to take a
PSAT/SAT...hopefully.


> How old is your son? Sometimes these fears arise out of fear of
> what people will think of us if our kids are not "up to grade
> level". He isn't in school so you need not worry if he is learning
> at a different pace than someone else and you certainly don't need
> to worry about spelling in a world with spell check.

He is 11 and you know, I really shouldn't be even trying to compare
either of my kids with schooled kids because mine may never be
interested in learning anything that they do so there really isn't a
'pace' that I should concern myself with anyway (speaking to myself
here) DD (8) uses spell check on everything and she loves it...so do I!

> My other son will be 11 this summer and is just beginning to read on
> his own. I never worried because my sister's son was 11 or 12
> before he learned how to read and you wouldn't be able to tell if he
> learned to read at 6 or just recently. Every child is unique and
> the more you let go the more you will see learning happening all on
> its own. Take ten deep breaths................................

Wow! I didn�t know that Ren�s son didn�t read until then, but I knew
that he only recently started to enjoy writing. Your analogy stands
out, big time and I do �get it�. J I feel the same when it comes to
babies walking, so your kid walked at 8 months and another at 1 �
years..you can�t tell now. Heidi, I will do just that, take big
breaths and relax�with my going to my Moms in two weeks I�ll need it,
she showed disgust and disapproval when she found out we do not do
grammar lessons. Again with the dam grammar, it�s the FORMAL study of
a language, so unless one is going to be a Grammar teacher, what is
the purpose of studying it?

Thanks Heidi!

~Sandy Winn

[email protected]

You may certainly *start* your own support group! www.yahoogroups.com!
Easy-peasy!

But this is about as close as you'll get to a support group online
right now. Because it's for beginners. But then again, we're only *so*
supportive---you have to be *trying* to get it! <bwg>

I think the biggest issue with large support groups is that they turn
into---"It's OK, you're a good mom" groups. Hard to get better from
there! People often tend to stagnate when told they're doing the best
they can.

I've found the *local* groups to be more supportive. 'Cause you're
near each other and can see one another on a weekly or more basis. You
have actual shoulders to cry on---instead of virtual ones! <g>

Maybe start a local group? If you build it, they will come. Or a
national/international one---you never know...

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

-----Original Message-----
From: aplan4life <aplan4life@...>..

Just wondering if anyone could recommend a good online support group
for unschoolers for those times when doubt and fear arise. I'm only
asking because of the distinguishment that has been made here for
discussion vs. support.

Thank You in Advance,
Sandy Winn

Deb Lewis

***Is this
normal after totally embracing unschooling, i.e.; panic attacks on the
part of the parent? ***

Maybe, like a new religious zealot you bulldozed your way to unschooling
out of your desire to make things better for your kids but you lacked
some deep understanding. It happens. There are new concepts suddenly
clicking in your head and making so much sense you *know* they have to be
true, but you have twenty or thirty or more years of traditional thinking
to overcome and the details of that thinking still live in your head
alongside the new stuff. How long have you had kids and how long did
you parent them in the usual ways? It's a lifetime of pre programmed
"how to's" to overcome.

I'd hate to see you go to a (so called) support list because there, a
bunch of insecure people stumbling at unschooling start to commiserate
and that old thinking gets loud again - and most of the time the
"support" comes from that comfortable old kind of thinking. It might
make you feel better temporarily, feel understood, but it won't get you
closer to a full and deep understanding of the unschooling philosophy.

But since we aren't a religious cult and can't make you give up all your
worldly possessions and forbid contact with outsiders, you're free to do
a search at Yahoo for unschooling support or some such and see what you
can find.<g>

Every unschooler had moments of doubt. It will happen less and less
frequently until one day you'll realize you haven't worried about
"learning" at all since you can't remember when. It will come, the
unshakeable understanding.

***I started
feeling like *I* am failing him, he used to be an awesome speller.
Failing him by not preparing him properly for the harsh world we live
in; one that pokes fun of those who misspell, who don't know much
about politics, who can't write well, etc.***

Even if you had a curriculum and worksheets and spelling lists and tests
you could not guarantee your child would be good at spelling. You
couldn't make him "know" about politics or writing. You could go through
all the struggles to get him to do the prescribed work and you could feel
better about your part but your goal is not to absolve yourself, I hope.
That's what a rigorous academic course would do for you, it would absolve
you. What would it do for your son?

I don't spell well and the only one who makes fun of me is Kelly. <g>
But Kelly would make fun of me for something else anyway so the spelling
thing hardly matters. I know quite a lot about politics and what I know
is it's ever changing and always the same. <g> I write all the time and
people poke fun at that but I consider it a nice change from the usual
poking about unschooling or veganism or bird watching or, or, or...<g>
My not very subtle point is someone, somewhere, will find a way to be
unsettled by something or other. Being a good speller or writer or
being politically savvy won't change that. Better to be the kind of
person who can manage the pokes of life then the kind of person stressed
by trying to be unpokable. Or something. <g>

***Feeling like you are doing the wrong thing to
help prepare your child for a harsh world in which competition and
'academic' knowledge are a major part of? ***

I haven't found the world to be that harsh or maybe we've made our lives
away from the harshness. I've worked at different jobs and I've had my
own business and while there are always challenges I've never found life
especially competitive or academic. There are certainly fields that are
more competitive but if one is going into such a field then I'm guessing
one would be the kind of person could cope with the stress of
competition. Or, discover otherwise and move on.

***We've been doing this
totally now for over a month. ***

We've been doing it totally since Dylan could have started kindergarten
at five and didn't, or since the compulsory school attendance laws
required him to go at seven and he didn't, depending where you want to
start. So we've been unschooling nine or seven years. <g> Friday I saw
the first note from Dylan that was entirely without a misspelled word.
He'll be fourteen on Saturday. I don't know the last time I wrote
something without a single misspelling and I'm forty three, and I had
spelling lessons and school and tests and whatever else I've managed to
finally block out. <g>

Deb Lewis, way behind on list mail.

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

totally awesome, Deb! thanks for the grounding :)


~*~*~
Lesa M.
LIFE Academy
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net/
-------Original Message-------

From: Deb Lewis
Date: 05/07/06 14:20:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Unschooling Support Group
Recommendation...



We've been doing it totally since Dylan could have started kindergarten
at five and didn't, or since the compulsory school attendance laws
required him to go at seven and he didn't, depending where you want to
start. So we've been unschooling nine or seven years. <g> Friday I saw
the first note from Dylan that was entirely without a misspelled word.
He'll be fourteen on Saturday. I don't know the last time I wrote
something without a single misspelling and I'm forty three, and I had
spelling lessons and school and tests and whatever else I've managed to
finally block out. <g>

Deb Lewis, way behind on list mail.


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-----Original Message-----
From: Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>


But since we aren't a religious cult and can't make you give up all
your
worldly possessions and forbid contact with outsiders, you're free to
do
a search at Yahoo for unschooling support or some such and see what you
can find.<g>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Yeah. I've TRIED that brainwashing. Doesn't work well with unschoolers
who question *everything*! <g>

I keep trying, though....you are getting sleeeeepy. Very sleeeeeeepy...

-=-=-=-=-

Every unschooler had moments of doubt. It will happen less and less
frequently until one day you'll realize you haven't worried about
"learning" at all since you can't remember when. It will come, the
unshakeable understanding.

-=-=-=-=-

Speak for yourself, grasshopper! I didn't "doubt"---I didn't *get* it,
and then I *did*. Weird, but true.

But Deb's right, and one day there will be unshakeable understanding.


-=-=-=-=-

I don't spell well and the only one who makes fun of me is Kelly. <g>
But Kelly would make fun of me for something else anyway so the
spelling
thing hardly matters.

-=-=-=-=-

Puh-leeze! Has anyone here *ever* seen me make fun of Deb's spelling???

Her living in Montana, maybe. Certainly that she's never eaten a Big
Mac! <g> I count on her nerdy knowledge of birds all the time---no
poking *there*! <g> I may laugh at home in the privacy of my cozy
little den, but I would *never* poke fun at someone's (even Deb's! <g>)
spelling out in cyberland.

-=-=-=-=-

I don't know the last time I wrote
something without a single misspelling and I'm forty three, and I had
spelling lessons and school and tests and whatever else I've managed to
finally block out. <g>

-=-=-=-

Well, that entire last post had no misspellings---well, unschooler/ing
shows up every time as misspelled, but there ya' go!

-=-=-=-=-

Deb Lewis, way behind on list mail.

-=-=-=-

Yeah. It's time for me to kick Deb-butt!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/11/2006 11:39:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
Well, that entire last post had no misspellings---well, unschooler/ing
shows up every time as misspelled, but there ya' go!
You need to help your computer learn those words. Hit 'learn' instead of
'skip' and your computer will learn that they are words.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***Deb Lewis, way behind on list mail.
-=-=-=-
Yeah. It's time for me to kick Deb-butt!***

Lemme catch y'all up. <g>

Zoey the cat got sick in September so I went to work to pay vet bills.
Lots and lots of vet bills. <g> David's (dh) mom was diagnosed with
cancer about the same time. My mom had hip surgery in December and came
out nuttier than a fruit cake! (Ok, she was pretty nutty going in...) I
took time off work to hang out with her. Mom went to my sister's house
and I went back to work, different place. Mom came home, and I'm
spending lot's of time with her. (She recently tried to light a fire in
the wood stove with gasoline - shudder - ) (David got hurt at work and
was off for awhile. (David's always been a little "off." <BEG>) My
friend Amy died last Saturday of cancer, she was forty six and has left
three teens and a nice husband.

Couple of weeks there I forgot all about email lists. <g>

***I may laugh at home in the privacy of my cozy
little den, ***

Ha! She admits it!

On another list (nerdy birdy list) a very smart guy wrote this: "for all
intensive purposes..." I was going to quote the whole sentence and
bring it here so Sandy could read it. This guy has a degree from a
hoity toity college. I did chuckle, not because I never make mistakes
but because it's funny that someone could be "well educated" (whatever
that means) and could maybe think that meant something really important
and still bugger up a very common phrase.

On unschooling lists the folks who make the silliest spelling errors are
usually the hysterical, angry moms yelling at us about the importance of
good spelling. <g>

Deb Lewis, in Montana, where the weather is fine and the trampoline
beckons... moonlight bouncing is great because I can see well enough to
stay on the trampoline but the neighbors can't see the hole in my pj's.
<g>

trektheory

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>
wrote:
>
>
> ***Deb Lewis, way behind on list mail.
> -=-=-=-
> Yeah. It's time for me to kick Deb-butt!***
>
> Lemme catch y'all up. <g>
>
> Zoey the cat got sick in September so I went to work to pay vet
bills.
> Lots and lots of vet bills. <g> David's (dh) mom was diagnosed
with
> cancer about the same time. My mom had hip surgery in December
and came
> out nuttier than a fruit cake! (Ok, she was pretty nutty going
in...) I
> took time off work to hang out with her. Mom went to my sister's
house
> and I went back to work, different place. Mom came home, and I'm
> spending lot's of time with her. (She recently tried to light a
fire in
> the wood stove with gasoline - shudder - ) (David got hurt at
work and
> was off for awhile. (David's always been a little "off." <BEG>) My
> friend Amy died last Saturday of cancer, she was forty six and has
left
> three teens and a nice husband.

Wow, but you've had such a QUIET time! I hope things calm down and
improve for you!


>
> On another list (nerdy birdy list) a very smart guy wrote
this: "for all
> intensive purposes..."

Some of my purposes are pretty intense.... ;-)

Linda