Ren Allen

"If your husband can't bring himself to admit - to your SON - that his
punishment was stupid (because I can guarantee you the boy knows how
stupid it is) it may well damage their relationship."

It will definitely hurt the relationship.
Overreacting to a child's emotions and feelings (even if it seems
rude) can also hurt.
Children NEED to know that their parents can handle ALL of their
feelings. They need to know that you are confident and secure enough
in yourself to handle their very intense emotions. They do NOT need to
feel responsible for our feelings, that is NOT their job.

If we react harshly when they say things that seem rude or hurtful,
then they learn we are not safe to share feelings with. If you can use
some reflective conversation "you feel really angry at me right now"
or "so what you're saying is___________?" You will find them very
capable of calming down and getting to the heart of the matter with you.

Jalen has been known to say "I hate you" when he's frustrated. Why
take it personal? It's a vent. They NEED to vent and feel safe with
us. It's ok.

Punishments are stupid. Punishments and threats only get in the way of
healthy relationships. All you have to do is picture your partner
treating you that way to see how awful it would be for the
relationship. I know it's very hard to shift paradigms on the
punishment/reward issue. But a lot of us have done it, with beautiful
results.

Taking candy away from a child doesn't truly teach them anything but
resentment and/or self-loathing. We are the mirrors that reflect our
children. What we reflect to them is of absolute importance.
Do we reflect annoyance?
Do we reflect fear and mistrust?
Do we reflect their beauty and wholeness, their goodness?

Balance is a really BIG part of this unschooling adventure. Ask
yourself if that child was not here tomorrow, would this thing you're
upset about really matter at all? Usually it isn't truly important.
"Attitude" is a GOOD thing for a child to have. They are trying to
communicate with you.
If it comes across rude/mean-spirited, where did that come from?
I would simply say "I understand you are frustrated right now, but
could you say it like this (and then paraphrase for them) so I can
listen better"

We are the adults. We are responsible for our own feelings. We are
responsible for how our children see themselves to a very large
degree...we need to make sure the reflection is clear and not
distorted through our own fears, lack or annoyance. We need to be full
and balanced enough to give them this....or at least process these
issues quietly on our own without dumping it on our children.

It's all a huge shift.
But from many of us that have BTDT, it's really an important shift to
make for the healing to take place and relationships to blossom in a
way that invites unschooling into our lives.

Also, "attitude" is not a puberty thing in my experience. I have a 16
year old that is really sweet and loving, not at all like the
"typical" teen. I think if a child is angry or speaking hurftully,
they need to be heard. There's some hurt or disrpespect they've had in
their lives that needs to be processed. Trust the process, trust the
healing will happen.
Give them ultimate respect so they know what it looks like.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

>>Also, "attitude" is not a puberty thing in my experience. >>

No, but moodiness/mood swings are don't you think? I kind of think that part is hormonal and I wouldn't want to paint a picture that includes none of the grittier stuff. <g>

I basically have two adolescents here now. Neither one has an attitude "problem." But both of them do tend to get grumpier at times than they used to. I just try to remember what it felt like to be 12 and 16. I give them space. I give them privacy. I give them freedom to feel. I let them vent. They know I'm on their side. That's HUGE.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>

[email protected]

"If your husband can't bring himself to admit - to your SON - that his

punishment was stupid (because I can guarantee you the boy knows how

stupid it is) it may well damage their relationship."

Stupidest of all, it ends up having the opposite effect of what the punisher
wants.

The idea behind harsh discipline is that it will cause the child to think
about what they did, repent of it, and never repeat it.

The reality is that harsh discipline causes the child to think about how
unfair the parent is being. The merit of the parent's position on whatever it was
that brought about the punishment is usually lost in a sea of bad feelings.

Not that I'm advocating guilting children :)
Deborah in IL

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: DACunefare@...

Not that I'm advocating guilting children :)


-=-=-=-

It's late. I'm tired. And my eyes are mediocre on a *good* day.

But *I* read: "Not that I'm advocating QUILTING children."

I read it three times before I noticed it was a G, not a Q! <g>

I couldn't figure out from the previous text where the quilting would
come in! Nor how it could be accomplished! <bwg>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

drusila00

--- In [email protected], zenmomma@... wrote:
>
> >>Also, "attitude" is not a puberty thing in my experience. >>
>
> No, but moodiness/mood swings are don't you think? I kind of think
that part is hormonal and I wouldn't want to paint a picture that
includes none of the grittier stuff. <g>>>>

I know that was not directed at me but I do agree with you.
and our sons counceler agreed as well that when puberty hits mood
swings and many new and confusing feelings can be overwhelming for
kids. Which she told us is why he needs "stability" and not
wishywashyness so going back on somthing is not a good thing for him
right now. (the best thing is of course to think before saying
somthing stupid)

Even at 11 My son is begining to notice "weird feelings" (in the
pants area) when he sees girls or women in tight clothing, or short
skirts or glimpses of breasts in a low cut shirt.

He has moodswings from minor sadness & massive sensitivity to every
little thing, to utter frustration to laughing uncontrolably and he
has expressed concern that he doesn't quite know what to expect
next. he just "outgrew" his nightlight this week and this morning
told me about a dream that had a fairly sexual nature to it that
made him feel "weird".

One moment he loves playing with somthing and the next he
has "outgrown it" and a bit later he enjoys it again, he doesn't
know where his interests are any more because he is right there on
the cusp of childhood and becoming a teen.

This is just the Tip of the Hormonal iceburg I think and because
everything is so new for him and for us its dificult for everyone.
Not to mention the shift from a very abusive Public school to
homeschooling and then trying to ease into unschooling.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


>>>>>>>>We are the adults. We are responsible for our own feelings.
We areresponsible for how our children see themselves to a very large
degree...we need to make sure the reflection is clear and not
distorted through our own fears, lack or annoyance. We need to be
fulland balanced enough to give them this....or at least process
these issues quietly on our own without dumping it on our
children.>>>>>>>

To be fair I think we are all having high emotions and stress and
crying is sometimes inevitable for me, I cry easily, Im sensitive
and I have no one who cares about me to discuss my feelings with. I
have neither a family that cares to hear me 'whine' or friends in
this area that I know well enough to bother.
I don't think that because I did end up crying that I was making
anyone responcible for my feelings, or "dumping" them on my child.
I simply got up, went into my room, shut the door and proceeded to
cry. All by my self like I always do.

[email protected]

>>our sons counceler agreed as well that when puberty hits mood swings and many new and confusing feelings can be overwhelming for kids. Which she told us is why he needs "stability" and not wishywashyness so going back on somthing is not a good thing for him right now.>>

Stability is not the same thing as never changing your mind or admitting a mistake. For my kids, their stability is in knowing that their parents are on their side. They know we have worked through problems in a respectful tone when they were younger and we'll continue to do the same now that they're older and the challenges are bigger.

When emotions swirl and feelings are easily hurt, they can count on that as their rock. It WILL NOT change. I'm with them on this bumpy journey. I have deliberately not set myself up as their adversary.

>> This is just the Tip of the Hormonal iceburg I think and because everything is so new for him and for us its dificult for everyone. Not to mention the shift from a very abusive Public school to homeschooling and then trying to ease into unschooling.>>

He needs time to heal. You all do. Set expectations accordingly.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "drusila00" <drusila00@...>

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: drusila00 <drusila00@...>

our sons counceler agreed as well that when puberty hits mood
swings and many new and confusing feelings can be overwhelming for
kids. Which she told us is why he needs "stability" and not
wishywashyness so going back on somthing is not a good thing for him
right now.

-=-=-

That's typical traditional counselor/parent talk. The "stability" he
needs is an open relationship with you where he knows you have his best
interest at heart. Where he knows he can trust you to do what's RIGHT,
not what's politically correct.

Wishy-washy is when you can't make up your mind. It's NOT when you
realize the first decision/reaction was a bad one and correct it.

Being honest and trustworthy is much more important than being
authoritarian.

Being pragmatic is better than being dogmatic!

Going back on a bad decison/reaction is MUCH better than staying the
bad/wrong course. What do you think that is teaching your son? Better a
bad decision than an apology? YUCK!

-=-=-=-


Not to mention the shift from a very abusive Public school to
homeschooling and then trying to ease into unschooling.

-=-=-=-

You made *those* changes because you found a better way? Right? Why
wouldn't you apologiz and make a better way with other things?

You only have *so* much time to make things right. Not apologizing and
fixing the problem only prolongs the problem. You only have a few more
years with him---make them joyful years.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

Joyce Fetteroll

> "If your husband can't bring himself to admit - to your SON - that his
> punishment was stupid (because I can guarantee you the boy knows how
> stupid it is) it may well damage their relationship."

And the punishment demonstrates to your son that the best method of
resolving a conflict between two people -- best because your husband
has had years and years of practice to try different ways out and
this is what he's chosen -- is to be bigger and stronger and use your
greater power to control a smaller person.

Is that what he wants to model?

So if your son had a conflict with a younger neighbor, would your
husband think it was okay if your son took away the child's toy until
the child did what your son wanted?

> He can
> be all fire and brimstone sometimes because he just thinks shock
> and awe is
> so effective

Well he's right! It *is* effective. But what he's seeing is the short
term effect. What he's missing is the longer term side effect.

Being bigger and stronger can make smaller people do what we want in
the here and now. It can make them stop fighting. And take out the
trash. And eat their peas. And go to bed. And not watch TV ... unless
they're somewhere where their parents can't see them. And not do
drugs ... unless their parents aren't around to stop them.

Being bigger and stronger to control and make them do what we want
"works" (or *appears* to work) when they're small and weak. The
*hope* is that by they time they're bigger our message about what is
the right way to be and act will have sunk in and they'll make the
right choices.

The truth is that they can 1) learn to *act* the way we want and then
are very different when they're out of our sight, or 2) be defiant
and openly rebellious, or 3) give up and let others make decisions
for them, or 4) decide (some of) what the parents say makes sense
because they're older and it's more understandable.

As much as we want to hope for 4, their reaction to authoritarianism
really depends on their personality and how well we make up for the
damage authoritarianism does to our relationship with them.

When we're in the midst of "If they'd just do what I want them to
then I wouldn't need to make them!" it's hard to see another way. If
we let go of making them, the only other option seems to be letting
them have their way.

If we stop making it about who gets to win, if we stop being
adversaries with our kids so that one has to win and the other has to
lose, and start being their partners, then lots more options open up.

*And* the bonus is that we become people our kids want to be with,
people our kids want to bring their problems to.

The biggest problem with authoritarianism is that it *looks* on the
surface like it's working. Kids tend to behave around the
authoritarian parent. But once they're out of the sight of the
authoritarian parent it's a different story. And the sad part is that
they aren't misbehaving because they're bad and need more control.
They're misbehaving because they're fighting to get loose of the
chains around them and it often turns out badly.

When the world is divided between what you can and can't do, it's
natural to want to challenge yourself on what others think you can't
do. We want to show ourselves and others that we're competent, if not
competent to handle it, at least competent enough to try. When the
world is divided between what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy
there isn't a reason to do what you don't enjoy ;-) (Though sometimes
we *choose* to do something we don't enjoy because we enjoy something
else even less, like paying taxes instead of facing the hassle of a
tax audit, getting up at 5AM for a job because not having a job is
worse.)

Authoritarian parents often grew up in authoritarian homes where it
was implied that adults get their way because they're adults. And
kids can have their way once they're adults too. So kids who've grown
up expecting to have their way as adults pass that legacy onto their
own kids as the adults try to get their own way because, they feel,
"It's my turn now!"

The bottom line of authoritarian parenting is that kids want to be
far far away from the parent. When they're teens they *are* going to
try risky things because they haven't been allowed to try less risky
things as kids to learn about themselves. And when things go wrong
they aren't going to come first to their parents. Some kids run away.
Some adult kids want to move away from their parents and have as
little as possible to do with them.

Is what he's getting in the moment worth the price he'll pay in the
future?

> Trying to express love
> and kindness respectfully then just as I was about to pull away my
> daughters
> mouth kicks in for the last word and I slammed on the brake to give
> her the
> look of the devil. The constant conflict, noise and stress of it
> all is
> really like a noose around my neck.

It takes time. It's like breaking a habit.

If you have a clear vision of how you want to react, faking it until
you make it is good. :-) But in the mean time it helps to be working
on not suppressing the feelings of being out of control but of not
feeling them.

First, it helps to create a vision of who you want to be so you know
what goal you're headed for.

Second, before you respond, always give yourself two choices. And
choose the better one, the one that moves you towards the vision. (It
will take time to remember to give yourself two choices, but make
that a goal. Maybe make that the only goal for the next month.) Even
if you haven't made the best choice someone else would have, know
that you've made a *better* choice than in the past. And keep working
at it, working towards even better choices.

Third, try various techniques to connect to them throughout the day,
to remind yourself why it's great that they're in your life so that
can carry over into the times when you think maybe this all isn't
worth it. When we're caught up in the moment of trying to get our
way, our children can seem like obstacles on the path. Consciously
work at other times to see how great they are. Imagine when they're
sweet if tomorrow they were gone. What if you never had to pick their
toys up again?

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"One moment he loves playing with somthing and the next he
has "outgrown it" and a bit later he enjoys it again, he doesn't
know where his interests are any more because he is right there on
the cusp of childhood and becoming a teen."

Or maybe instead of being related to puberty, it's related to NOT
knowing what he really loves and trying to "find" himself again as he
heals. He's been through a lot of painful and debilitating
experiences. It's going to take a LONG time for that to be worked
through. I don't think your traditional counselor is going to be very
helpful in some areas. Sounds like he/she is very understanding of
punishment, which will only get in the way of unschooling.

And I think it's REALLY important for a parent to stand up to another
parent when something is wrong or hurtful. Your child deserves that.
The other night Markus was really overwhelmed.
He'd been dealing with intense behaviors from Jalen all night (before
I got home from work) and the final meltdown was too much for him to
handle. I carried Jalen into the room and was letting him vent and
gently trying to calm him. Markus turns around and yells "STOP
SCREAMING"
Brilliant. You want a child to stop being out of control and screaming
so you act out of control and scream??? Duh.
I looked at him and said "Get out of this room RIGHT NOW and let me
deal with this".
He didn't like it, but he saw the look of death in my eyes and left.:)

Our children need an advocate. Part of this journey as a family is
letting our partners know that they are hurting US when they hurt the
child. Part of this journey is standing up for our children when they
need us. It can be done in a loving manner, but if our partners really
value us, they need to LISTEN when something bothers us, right?

It bothers me deeply when he is harsh or uncaring....he knows that and
does things differently because of that. When he slips, he tries
really hard to be kind and sweet afterwards. He's also willing to say
"I'm sorry, I screwed up"
That's a much better model for a child than someone that is willing to
stand behind a big fat mistake!!! Consistency is not about doling out
punishments and standing behind them. It's about providing a safe,
caring and nurturing environment for the child and being attentive to
their needs.
If consistency is more desirable than those traits, most of us would
be parenting more traditionally and have our kids in school.
Consistency would mean we aren't growing and learning!! What would
that model to our children?

Also, a lot of the healing of old hurts can't happen until unschooling
is fully embraced. It's a journey for sure...we all take steps towards
it in our own way. But when a child comes out of school at 11 years of
age, you don't have a lot of time to create a wonderful environment,
only a few years and they're adult age. Each day, each moment needs to
be focused on joy and how to BE together without friction.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

trektheory

--- In [email protected], zenmomma@... wrote:
>
> >>Also, "attitude" is not a puberty thing in my experience. >>
>
> No, but moodiness/mood swings are don't you think? I kind of think
that part is hormonal and I wouldn't want to paint a picture that
includes none of the grittier stuff. <g>

I don't know -- I think it depends on the individual. My son hasn't
hit puberty yet (late bloomer), but I am fairly confident that my
mother would back me up in saying I didn't have moodiness/mood
swings when I was in puberty. Any moods I felt tended to have a
specific cause -- and hormones didn't change that.

But I have no idea what will happen when my son hits puberty. I
sometimes wonder if the age it is started is a factor, too. He's 14
already, no signs that I'm aware of. (Our (former -- we moved)
peditrician told us the first sign is ALWAYS increased testicular
size, and I have reminded my son of that, and he is unaware of
change there. I haven't seen there in a while!) I do wonder if how
easy/hard puberty is is more genetic, or if age is a factor, and if
age is, is it easier to deal with earlier or later.

Linda



>
> I basically have two adolescents here now. Neither one has an
attitude "problem." But both of them do tend to get grumpier at
times than they used to. I just try to remember what it felt like to
be 12 and 16. I give them space. I give them privacy. I give them
freedom to feel. I let them vent. They know I'm on their side.
That's HUGE.
>
> --
> ~Mary
> http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
>
> "The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
> green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling
truly
> alive."
> ~Thich Nhat Hanh
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
>

drusila00

--- In [email protected], "trektheory"
<trektheory@...> wrote:

> I don't know -- I think it depends on the individual. My son
hasn't
> hit puberty yet (late bloomer), but I am fairly confident that my
> mother would back me up in saying I didn't have moodiness/mood
> swings when I was in puberty. Any moods I felt tended to have a
> specific cause -- and hormones didn't change that.
>
> But I have no idea what will happen when my son hits puberty. I
> sometimes wonder if the age it is started is a factor, too. He's
14
> already, no signs that I'm aware of. (Our (former -- we moved)
> peditrician told us the first sign is ALWAYS increased testicular
> size, and I have reminded my son of that, and he is unaware of
> change there. I haven't seen there in a while!) I do wonder if
how easy/hard puberty is is more genetic, or if age is a factor, and
if age is, is it easier to deal with earlier or later.
>
> Linda>>>>>

Linda that is a good thing to wonder and I wish I had an answer.
I know I started puberty "early" I got breasts and my period at
about age 8 and from 8-14 I was a mess emotionaly but I also had
other things going on. to this day I have Wild swings in mood when I
have PMS (along with severe bloating).
My son did tell me "Ive got hair *there* now" (I didnt think to
inquire if things were swelling) unfortunatly he wasnt proud of it--
he asked how to get it off because he doesn't want "hair *there*"
I did tell him about waxing and shaving but mentioned that each ave
their drawbacks. he decided to let it grow (As far as I know)
Neither my husband nor I have seen him in the buff in a very long
while so who knows what he could be doing with the hair.

Ren Allen

"No, but moodiness/mood swings are don't you think? I kind of think
that part is hormonal and I wouldn't want to paint a picture that
includes none of the grittier stuff."

I think we are all affected by hormones and mood swings our entire
lives. I don't think attributing it all to "puberty" is a good idea.
Everyone is affected differently, but I also believe that part of the
"mood swings" are due to how our society treats these issues.

For example, at the onset of the menstrual cycle, our society does not
celebrate this cycle of life...it's seen as a nuisance. Honoring the
changes in our bodies, the developmental stages we all go through is
so much healthier in my opinion.
I try to imagine a bunch of women gathered around me when I got my
period as a teen. I imagine them as a circle of love, celebrating that
change with me. I picture singing and gifts and honor, rather than the
rather alienating experience I really had.

I think a lot of these difficulties that puberty causes, are due to
how they are handled. Embracing these changes, honoring the feelings
our children have (fearful or otherwise) and helping them navigate
this time in their lives with respect will really go a long way to
smoother water.

Mood swings aren't just a pubescent thing....we all deal with these
issues. Having people around you that understand, honor your feelings
and try to provide the environment you need helps you deal with those
moods. All of us.

If we keep saying "oh, that's puberty" I think it's an easy excuse to
NOT look deeper. Hormones may exascerbate certain moods, but I think
we need to really look at where the feelings are coming from and
whether there are changes that need to be made.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

drusila00

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:

> I think we are all affected by hormones and mood swings our entire
> lives. I don't think attributing it all to "puberty" is a good
idea.>>>>

Is there not scientific proof that during the phase we refer to
as "puberty" there are huge fluctuations in these hormones as the
body changes? Those Fluctuations can effect to a great degree how
someone acts and reacts to the world and the people arround them.

>>> Mood swings aren't just a pubescent thing....we all deal with
these issues. Having people around you that understand, honor your
feelings we need to really look at where the feelings are coming
from and whether there are changes that need to be made.>>

We do all deal with them and as adults we have had years of practice
since puberty in dealing with them.
hormones do fluctuate throughout our lives although not as
intensely as in puberty or durring advancing age.
A woman going through menopause can tell you that even though she
may have experianced hormonal flux as an adult that Menopause can
bring it to a whole diferent level.
Children just entering puberty have nothing to compaire with, I
think we do them a diservice if we do not take into acount how new
feelings and fluctuating hormones can have an effect on them.


> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "drusila00" <drusila00@...>
wrote:

>
> Linda that is a good thing to wonder and I wish I had an answer.
> I know I started puberty "early" I got breasts and my period at
> about age 8 and from 8-14 I was a mess emotionaly but I also had
> other things going on. to this day I have Wild swings in mood when
I
> have PMS (along with severe bloating).

And I was fairly normal time schedule there, and very even all month -
- as is my mother. Hence my suspecting a genetic component.


> My son did tell me "Ive got hair *there* now" (I didnt think to
> inquire if things were swelling)

If the hair is there, the "swelling" had to precede it.



>unfortunatly he wasnt proud of it--

Does he understand the reason for it? Maybe he is ambivilant about
maturing. That is understandable. I'm ambivilant about it, myself.
(I'm not sure I ever will....)


> he asked how to get it off because he doesn't want "hair *there*"
> I did tell him about waxing and shaving but mentioned that each
ave
> their drawbacks. he decided to let it grow (As far as I know)
> Neither my husband nor I have seen him in the buff in a very long
> while so who knows what he could be doing with the hair.

Maybe braids and bows? ;-)

Linda

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 4/28/06, drusila00 <drusila00@...> wrote:
>
> but I am fairly confident that my
> > mother would back me up in saying I didn't have moodiness/mood
> > swings when I was in puberty. Any moods I felt tended to have a
> > specific cause -- and hormones didn't change that.


The changes in hormones can impact how we act on our emotions and moods.
And people are so subjective when it comes to how much hormonal change they
can handle. Post partum is a good example of this. Some women produce a
lot of prolactin after childbirth. This is a good thing in that it helps
bring on a good supply of milk. For most women this hormone helps calm them
and keep them relaxed. Some women produce very little prolactin. They
struggle with breastfeeding and are very moody or depressed. Some women
produce prolactin in swings and will bounce from a state of euphoria to a
state of depression in a matter of a few hours. Some women can handle the
changes in hormonal level after birth and while they may feel depressed, it
doesn't inhibit their ability to cope. Other women can't handle these
changes and need assistance in balancing their emotions out.

I can't really recall if hormones effected me much. I was a very "loner"
kid and hid about in my room most of the time reading. I do remember
watching friends go through changes and thinking, "What's got into
her/him?" Some women never seem deal with PMS some women you just want to
shoot to get them out of your misery :) Some men don't have a midlife
crisis and need to go find a PYT or buy a motorcycle and others wake up one
morning and go, 'Huh, there's a gray hair. Interesting" and go about their
life like normal.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 4/28/06, trektheory <trektheory@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "drusila00" <drusila00@...>
> wrote:
> > Neither my husband nor I have seen him in the buff in a very long
> > while so who knows what he could be doing with the hair.
>
> Maybe braids and bows? ;-)
>
> Linda


ROFL!! I"m so glad you said that Linda. My thought was dreadlocks, but
your thought is funnier! :)





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>

>
> For example, at the onset of the menstrual cycle, our society does
not
> celebrate this cycle of life...it's seen as a nuisance.

You mean, it's not a nuisance? Gee.... Actually, some of it IS.
Cramps -- no one can tell me it is psychosomatic. I had no idea
there was a connection, until I had them, and my mom said, "Oh, it's
probably from your period." Sure enough, each month, pain. I would
find it hard to celebrate those months that I've had double-over in
pain until I can't see straight cycles. Thankfully, that is not
often, but it has happened.

I also remember my surprise when, as a teen, a friend said, "Oh,
everyone gets crabby that time of month." I told her, no, I never
did, my mom never did. She was as surprised by that, as I was by her
comment.


On the other hand, I think it is too bad that girls and women (and I
don't think I was truly a woman when I first started, not
emotionally) so often feel embarrassed by it all.

And of course, if you are wearing white pants, that's when things
happen unexpectedly.... ;-)



Honoring the
> changes in our bodies, the developmental stages we all go through is
> so much healthier in my opinion.

Healthy, but -- all it takes is a dirty old man to make you feel
unhappy about budding breasts. I would have given my eye teeth to
NOT develop until later. (On another board, I read that 2/3 of all
women have been sexually abused at some point. That's gotta have
emotional/mood consequences!)

Linda

Joanne

Very interesting conversation. Because of what I just posted in the
other thread on sexuality and siblings, we're very open about sex,
sexuality, puberty, etc. with our children.

My son is 13 (14 in October) and my husband hangs out in the
bathroom with him (about 3-5 nights) a week while my son showers.
They usually talk about girls and changes in his body.
His voice is changing and will change 2-3 octives in one sentence
(it's actually kinda cute!) and has underarm and pubic hair.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/



--- In [email protected], "drusila00"
<drusila00@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "trektheory"
> <trektheory@> wrote:
>
> > I don't know -- I think it depends on the individual. My son
> hasn't
> > hit puberty yet (late bloomer), but I am fairly confident that
my
> > mother would back me up in saying I didn't have moodiness/mood
> > swings when I was in puberty. Any moods I felt tended to have a
> > specific cause -- and hormones didn't change that.
> >
> > But I have no idea what will happen when my son hits puberty. I
> > sometimes wonder if the age it is started is a factor, too.
He's
> 14
> > already, no signs that I'm aware of. (Our (former -- we moved)
> > peditrician told us the first sign is ALWAYS increased
testicular
> > size, and I have reminded my son of that, and he is unaware of
> > change there. I haven't seen there in a while!) I do wonder if
> how easy/hard puberty is is more genetic, or if age is a factor,
and
> if age is, is it easier to deal with earlier or later.
> >
> > Linda>>>>>
>
> Linda that is a good thing to wonder and I wish I had an answer.
> I know I started puberty "early" I got breasts and my period at
> about age 8 and from 8-14 I was a mess emotionaly but I also had
> other things going on. to this day I have Wild swings in mood when
I
> have PMS (along with severe bloating).
> My son did tell me "Ive got hair *there* now" (I didnt think to
> inquire if things were swelling) unfortunatly he wasnt proud of it-
-
> he asked how to get it off because he doesn't want "hair *there*"
> I did tell him about waxing and shaving but mentioned that each
ave
> their drawbacks. he decided to let it grow (As far as I know)
> Neither my husband nor I have seen him in the buff in a very long
> while so who knows what he could be doing with the hair.
>

[email protected]

>>I don't know -- I think it depends on the individual. My son hasn't hit puberty yet (late bloomer), but I am fairly confident that my mother would back me up in saying I didn't have moodiness/mood swings when I was in puberty. Any moods I felt tended to have a specific cause -- and hormones didn't change that.>>

Well we *are* a moody family here. <g> But in general it was not an issue for Conor when he was younger. Something definitely changed when the hormones came in. But you're absolutely right, it is individual. But it's also something that does happen.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "trektheory" <trektheory@...>

[email protected]

>>Mood swings aren't just a pubescent thing....we all deal with these issues. Having people around you that understand, honor your feelings and try to provide the environment you need helps you deal with those moods. All of us.>>

Absolutely! What I was saying is that emotions can and many times do increase during puberty. At least they have in our house! But that doesn't mean I'm fighting with my kids or they're sullen and distant from us. It just means I've had to adjust some of my expectations for interactions during this time. It's ALL about how we react and respond to them that matters. We have an incredibly peaceful and happy pair of adolescents here. That's because of radical unschooling. It's because I don't take one instant of short temper as a personal insult. I relate to them as real people with real needs.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>