Elissa Jill Cleaveland

<<The
way that it should be worded is that a person who has a family history of
diabetes has a 75% higher chance of developing diabetes >>

IOW, if one has a 1% chance with no family history, a family history raises
that to 1.75%. Correct?
(The number one used for illustrative purposes)
Elissa Jill
The music in me is a gift from the Universe.
My job is to care for it and use it well; I am its bearer, not its owner.
~Johnny Cash's Moma

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Elissa Jill Cleaveland"
<MystikMomma@...> wrote:
>
> <<The
> way that it should be worded is that a person who has a family
>history of
> diabetes has a 75% higher chance of developing diabetes >>
>
> IOW, if one has a 1% chance with no family history, a family history
>raises
> that to 1.75%. Correct?
> (The number one used for illustrative purposes)
> Elissa Jill

Yup - I'm pretty sure that's stated correctly

--Deb

Su Penn

On Apr 18, 2006, at 7:39 AM, Elissa Jill Cleaveland wrote:

> <<The
> way that it should be worded is that a person who has a family
> history of
> diabetes has a 75% higher chance of developing diabetes >>
>
> IOW, if one has a 1% chance with no family history, a family
> history raises
> that to 1.75%. Correct?

Yes, and this is a good reason to be careful anytime you see a scary
statistic like "five times as likely." It's not too meaningful if you
don't know what is being multiplied! For instance, when I was
thinking about getting pregnant with my first, I read up on the
health risks of pregnancy for fat women (I weighed 247 at the time).
Right at that time, there was a story going around in the media about
how overweight women were twice as likely to have babies with neural
tube defects like spina bifida (there's also an example of
sensationalizing, because the stories always chose the most disabling
possibility as the example of what a neural tube defect is, rather
than some of the less severe ones, but I digress), and really fat
women like me four times as likely.

Anyway, some digging revealed that in the general population, neural
tube defects occur in about .2 percent (not 2 %-- .2 percent, or 2 in
a thousand births). Four times that, even if that holds true over
additional studies, means someone like me still has a better than 99%
chance of having a baby with no neural tube defect. Hardly worth
panicking over.

Su

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 4/18/06, Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
>
> Anyway, some digging revealed that in the general population, neural
> tube defects occur in about .2 percent (not 2 %-- .2 percent, or 2 in
> a thousand births). Four times that, even if that holds true over
> additional studies, means someone like me still has a better than 99%
> chance of having a baby with no neural tube defect. Hardly worth
> panicking over.


This is the sort of scare tactics that have been used to justify automatic
repeat c/s on women who have had a previous c/s. The statistic says that a
woman who has had a c/s is 50% more likely to have a uterine rupture than a
woman who has not had any uterine surgeries. That sounds like a drastic
leap, but the truth is the incidence of uterine rupture in a woman who has
never had uterine surgery is .05% Yes point 05%. that is such a low
number. Yet it is this abuse of percentages that have caused doctors to shy
away from VBAC's. Now to complicate this matter even more, the use of some
modern labor enhancing drugs have increased the uterine rupture of women who
have never had any uterine surgeries from .05% to .1% yet these same drugs
have increased the uterine rupture rate in previously surgeried uteri to
.5%. Yet they don't tell you those rates. What they say is that the
incidence of uterine rupture is increased dramatically. 2 grains of sand
maybe twice as much as 1 grain of sand, but when compared to a beach it is
only 2 insignificant grains of sand.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rshoulla

Here, here on statistics being used as a scare tactic.

My first was a footling breech and therefore had to be a c/s. My
other two were delivered vaginally. With both I had a GREAT doc who
looked at real facts instead of what everyone else was claiming.

I did a lot of research on VBAC prior to my second. The rates for a
uterine rupture in a VBAC and a women with no previous uterine
surgeries is roughly the same. It's close enough, in fact, that if
it's true women shouldn't VBAC in facilities that can't do an
emergency c/s, it's also true NO women should labor there b/c the
chances of needing one are about the same.

I got "stuck" at 6" with both my youngest two, we tried tricks, but
I ended up needing pitocin to get me to 10". Luckily, my doc agreed
to give it rather than just do another c/s. Every other doc at the
hosp would have performed a c/s without discussion. Neither delivery
was a problem and both babies were healthy. The rates of uterine
rupture only increase SLIGHTLY with pitocin in VBACs.

However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you give
a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine rupture
sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.

I guess Mother Nature accepts suggestions and a little help, but
doesn't like being told what to do!

Robin

> This is the sort of scare tactics that have been used to justify
automatic
> repeat c/s on women who have had a previous c/s. The statistic
says that a
> woman who has had a c/s is 50% more likely to have a uterine
rupture than a
> woman who has not had any uterine surgeries. That sounds like a
drastic
> leap, but the truth is the incidence of uterine rupture in a woman
who has
> never had uterine surgery is .05% Yes point 05%. that is such a
low
> number. Yet it is this abuse of percentages that have caused
doctors to shy
> away from VBAC's. Now to complicate this matter even more, the
use of some
> modern labor enhancing drugs have increased the uterine rupture of
women who
> have never had any uterine surgeries from .05% to .1% yet these
same drugs
> have increased the uterine rupture rate in previously surgeried
uteri to
> .5%. Yet they don't tell you those rates. What they say is that
the
> incidence of uterine rupture is increased dramatically. 2 grains
of sand
> maybe twice as much as 1 grain of sand, but when compared to a
beach it is
> only 2 insignificant grains of sand.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michelle
> Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
> The Pampered Chef
> 850-474-0817
> http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
> Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Paige

> However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
> already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you give
> a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine rupture
> sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.

My sister had five VBACs with every single one of them induced. I
don't know what it matters, just that I wouldn't look too closely at
any statistics and put my faith in them. I think a lot of statistics
are just made-up-off-the-top-of-someone's-head-numbers. I used to
have a great time telling people (mainly my sister) fascinating
stories with statistics stuck in them, all made up, based (losely) on
something I had read. I don't do that anymore, mainly because I can
no longer remember most of what I read.
:)
Paige

Melissa

Yep, I've had six vbacs....two induced w/ prost and pit, and four
not. The only person I've known to have a uterine rupture has never
had a csection. weird stuff, probability. I took a statistics class.
Interested too in journal articles about autism, esp when they say
that they have a statistically significant number when their control
is like 40 kids who have already been dx'ed. Anyway, I agree with
Paige, numbers are all twistable, and I trust nothing that I read
without reading all the backup articles as well, and I like to see
the P myself ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Apr 18, 2006, at 11:39 PM, Paige wrote:

>
> > However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
> > already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you give
> > a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine rupture
> > sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.
>
> My sister had five VBACs with every single one of them induced. I
> don't know what it matters, just that I wouldn't look too closely at
> any statistics and put my faith in them. I think a lot of statistics
> are just made-up-off-the-top-of-someone's-head-numbers. I used to
> have a great time telling people (mainly my sister) fascinating
> stories with statistics stuck in them, all made up, based (losely) on
> something I had read. I don't do that anymore, mainly because I can
> no longer remember most of what I read.
> :)
> Paige
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rshoulla

My second was induced because I was ready to go any moment and my
doc was leaving town. If I'd gone into labor while she was gone, I
would have been forced into a c/s.

Induction with pitocin doesn't really increase risk. It's the use
prostaglandins that equal high risk. I don't think anyone really
knows if that's an effect of the prostaglanins or the fact that if
you aren't effaced you aren't ready to labor, anyway!!

But yes, take statistics with a grain of salt.

:)
Robin

--- In [email protected], "Paige"
<paigehughes1972@...> wrote:
>
>
> > However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
> > already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you
give
> > a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine
rupture
> > sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.
>
> My sister had five VBACs with every single one of them induced. I
> don't know what it matters, just that I wouldn't look too closely
at
> any statistics and put my faith in them. I think a lot of
statistics
> are just made-up-off-the-top-of-someone's-head-numbers. I used to
> have a great time telling people (mainly my sister) fascinating
> stories with statistics stuck in them, all made up, based (losely)
on
> something I had read. I don't do that anymore, mainly because I
can
> no longer remember most of what I read.
> :)
> Paige
>

Sandy Deby

Hi Everyone,

my name is Sandy I live on Vancouver island British Colombia Canada and I am new to all of this!

If I can give you Little bit of history with myself and children. My oldest is Alisha is 15 the Adrian 13 Addison almost 8 and Natalia 6.

The first two were born in a hospital and second two at home. My eldest has struggled all he life with school a I did. At the age of nine I seriously thought of home schooling yet I didn't know how, I researched a lot and met many home schoolers through my home birhts and felt the inner calling of knowing this for me was the way it was meant to be.

My second child Adrian is Autistic and I was having a lot of challenges and and then at that time a toddler and baby . I thought to myself I must be crazy thinking I cant do this I'm a hormonal mess and have my own healing journey that gives me the strength to hold all that I do, this would only make it worse for everyone.

So I made a second choice Waldorf. It was good for a while for my oldest until she got a real dogmatic teacher and Having all Indigo children they tend not to conform very well much to the teachers dismay.

My youngest son said why do they talk to us like babies around here. The youngest one has been doing very well at Waldorf but she loves all the kinds of stuff that they offer it kind of her normal interests anyways, and she only in kidegarten where waldorf just plays..

My autistic child is in a public school where there really pushing him because he really high functioning . He said why do I have to go to school when threres everything we need to learn in nature or I just like to fix things.

Right now I am getting my BA in psychology and trans personal psychology based on A course in miracles. So a lot of has been about are healing journey so that we can be congruent when were helping others heal.

One of the things that always comes up for me is how the school system ruined so much of my being and not having the support at home either was a double whammy.

I was very much an expiertial learner loaded with creativity and they did not teach the way I learnded so I always thought I was very stupid.That I didn't measure up.

I know will all my kids and the different variations of Indigo I have in my home has always concerned me what do I do thats best for them.

I feel like I cant run from the truth of wanting to be congruent in all areas of my life and this one area is the biggest of them all, my children.

I have all the fears screaming at me how can you do this, your too hormonal to be with your kids all the time, You don't know what to do.

YOu need your space , how are going to do your school work, its to late the damage is done and there's nothing you can do. I am afraid I sound selfish.

I don't have a clue when two want to go for a nature walk and two donthow I will work this, they all have such different needs.

What if I fail and screw them up even more than the school has and choices I have too?????

I need some strong encouragement with some ideas. Jan from the unschooling web site does counselling and suggested that I join this group.

Any thoughts??? ................Namaste Sandy

rshoulla <rshoulla@...> wrote:
My second was induced because I was ready to go any moment and my
doc was leaving town. If I'd gone into labor while she was gone, I
would have been forced into a c/s.

Induction with pitocin doesn't really increase risk. It's the use
prostaglandins that equal high risk. I don't think anyone really
knows if that's an effect of the prostaglanins or the fact that if
you aren't effaced you aren't ready to labor, anyway!!

But yes, take statistics with a grain of salt.

:)
Robin

--- In [email protected], "Paige"
<paigehughes1972@...> wrote:
>
>
> > However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
> > already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you
give
> > a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine
rupture
> > sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.
>
> My sister had five VBACs with every single one of them induced. I
> don't know what it matters, just that I wouldn't look too closely
at
> any statistics and put my faith in them. I think a lot of
statistics
> are just made-up-off-the-top-of-someone's-head-numbers. I used to
> have a great time telling people (mainly my sister) fascinating
> stories with statistics stuck in them, all made up, based (losely)
on
> something I had read. I don't do that anymore, mainly because I
can
> no longer remember most of what I read.
> :)
> Paige
>






---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Have a question? Yahoo! Canada Answers. Go to Yahoo! Canada Answers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy Deby

Hi Im new to the group and really needing some siupport onhow to get started and curious why my email didnt go through to the group??

What am I missing??........................Namaste Sandy



rshoulla <rshoulla@...> wrote:
My second was induced because I was ready to go any moment and my
doc was leaving town. If I'd gone into labor while she was gone, I
would have been forced into a c/s.

Induction with pitocin doesn't really increase risk. It's the use
prostaglandins that equal high risk. I don't think anyone really
knows if that's an effect of the prostaglanins or the fact that if
you aren't effaced you aren't ready to labor, anyway!!

But yes, take statistics with a grain of salt.

:)
Robin

--- In [email protected], "Paige"
<paigehughes1972@...> wrote:
>
>
> > However, research has shown this is only true for women who are
> > already effaced and therefore basically ready to labor. If you
give
> > a VBAC prostaglandins (sp?) to soften the cervix, uterine
rupture
> > sky-rockets to 1 in 41 women.
>
> My sister had five VBACs with every single one of them induced. I
> don't know what it matters, just that I wouldn't look too closely
at
> any statistics and put my faith in them. I think a lot of
statistics
> are just made-up-off-the-top-of-someone's-head-numbers. I used to
> have a great time telling people (mainly my sister) fascinating
> stories with statistics stuck in them, all made up, based (losely)
on
> something I had read. I don't do that anymore, mainly because I
can
> no longer remember most of what I read.
> :)
> Paige
>






---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Have a question? Yahoo! Canada Answers. Go to Yahoo! Canada Answers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>

***my name is Sandy I live on Vancouver island British Colombia
Canada and I am
new to all of this!***

-=-=-=-

Welcome, Sandy. I believe we have several members from BC!

-=-=-=-=-

*** So I made a second choice Waldorf. It was good for a while for my
oldest
until she got a real dogmatic teacher and Having all Indigo children
they tend
not to conform very well much to the teachers dismay.

<snip>

I know will all my kids and the different variations of Indigo I have
in my
home has always concerned me what do I do thats best for them.***

-=-=-=-=-

I think you need to dump that Indigo label as SOON as possible and just
see each one for Who He Is now.

-=-=-=-


***One of the things that always comes up for me is how the school
system ruined
so much of my being and not having the support at home either was a
double
whammy.***

-=-=-=-

Right, but you don't have to choose either of those for your own
children! You can never send them back to school, AND you can suppot
them completely at home.

-=-=-=-


***I have all the fears screaming at me how can you do this, your too
hormonal to
be with your kids all the time, You don't know what to do.

YOu need your space , how are going to do your school work, its to
late the
damage is done and there's nothing you can do. I am afraid I sound
selfish.***

-=-=-=-=-

First: take a DEEEP breath!

Next: just BE with them. Be joyful. Quit looking for the negative, for
the failures. Make popcorn. Watch a movie (or three). Make your own
individual pizzas. Brush their hair. Look for the joy in every
moment---and quit fussing!

-=-=--=

*** What if I fail and screw them up even more than the school has ***
-=-=-=-

Puh-leeze! Schools are monuments of failure.

-=-=-=-=-

***I need some strong encouragement with some ideas. Jan from the
unschooling web
site does counselling and suggested that I join this group.

Any thoughts??? ................Namaste Sandy***

-=-=-=-=

A good start would be to ask yourself, "What are my goals for my
children?"

Think long and hard about that and get back to us...

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

Sandy Deby

Thankyou Kelly,

Yes your words brought tears to my eyes and mirrored back all that I know within to be true.

I am actually a very postive person, but had to voice the fears. On a spiritual level this to me is about oneness.

The goal are not that hard for my children

Inner Peace
To find the things that bring them Joy in Life.

To love self and others equally.

To live there passions.

To be free to be who they are.

To be fully alive and live life to the fullest finding there own inner purposes.

Thank you...............Blessings and Love Sandy

kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>

***my name is Sandy I live on Vancouver island British Colombia
Canada and I am
new to all of this!***

-=-=-=-

Welcome, Sandy. I believe we have several members from BC!

-=-=-=-=-

*** So I made a second choice Waldorf. It was good for a while for my
oldest
until she got a real dogmatic teacher and Having all Indigo children
they tend
not to conform very well much to the teachers dismay.

<snip>

I know will all my kids and the different variations of Indigo I have
in my
home has always concerned me what do I do thats best for them.***

-=-=-=-=-

I think you need to dump that Indigo label as SOON as possible and just
see each one for Who He Is now.

-=-=-=-


***One of the things that always comes up for me is how the school
system ruined
so much of my being and not having the support at home either was a
double
whammy.***

-=-=-=-

Right, but you don't have to choose either of those for your own
children! You can never send them back to school, AND you can suppot
them completely at home.

-=-=-=-


***I have all the fears screaming at me how can you do this, your too
hormonal to
be with your kids all the time, You don't know what to do.

YOu need your space , how are going to do your school work, its to
late the
damage is done and there's nothing you can do. I am afraid I sound
selfish.***

-=-=-=-=-

First: take a DEEEP breath!

Next: just BE with them. Be joyful. Quit looking for the negative, for
the failures. Make popcorn. Watch a movie (or three). Make your own
individual pizzas. Brush their hair. Look for the joy in every
moment---and quit fussing!

-=-=--=

*** What if I fail and screw them up even more than the school has ***
-=-=-=-

Puh-leeze! Schools are monuments of failure.

-=-=-=-=-

***I need some strong encouragement with some ideas. Jan from the
unschooling web
site does counselling and suggested that I join this group.

Any thoughts??? ................Namaste Sandy***

-=-=-=-=

A good start would be to ask yourself, "What are my goals for my
children?"

Think long and hard about that and get back to us...

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org





---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Have a question? Yahoo! Canada Answers. Go to Yahoo! Canada Answers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]