Donni

Hi there,

I did a search here for Australia, found one thread from 4 months
ago... so thought I should post. I live in Townsville.

My son is 12 and in his last year of primary school. We always had
difficulties with him, with attendance at school. Have been to mental
health specialists but lost faith in them (long story.) His behaviour
mainly manifested at home so I was seen as the neurotic mother looking
for a label to excuse bad parenting. I have 2 other kids, 13 and 6,
they are fine.

April 2005 saw an incident at school that brought us in the eyes of
the authorities. Since then he did not one bit of schoolwork and was
continually suspended. This year he lasted 2 hours at school before
suspension and discussion with principal, decided to go the homeschool
route rather than inevitable expulsion, essentially leaving the door
open for eventual re-integtration (esp with high school next year!) On
the pension, this is very expensive for me in a state that supposedly
provides education for all.

He is doing pretty great in light of no work for almost a year but it
is taking my whole day and where is the joy of learning? I hate it! We
are now behind 7 school days in work. He asks me "Mum, how does this
learn me?" (Great grammar there, ha!) and I am buggered if I can
answer that.

I am very very close to the unschool method but of course, the
authorities as such know about us... breaking the law.... so what?
Myself and the school he attended believe he is Tourettes or high
functioning autistic (aspergers.) I tend to agree. The professionals
just say "maladjusted to life cos his dad isn't in it" after short
periods of time with him. He is VERY obsessed with computer. When he
was 10 he was evaluated at reading ability of 13 years plus. Now he
hates reading and that is a struggle. He virtually sails thru all the
maths.

I have been looking hard at myself. I miss the me time to create my
glass beads. Am I considering this out of selfishness and laziness? My
options are so limited - further pain being suspended and expelled and
bullied and teased by kids at school... but what about the high school
years... his "future".... Could family services intervene and take all
my kids? I'm sure some do-gooder friend who's views are conservative
plus would believe they were doing the right thing to make a quiet
complaint. I don't want to lose my 6 year old in a custody battle (I
have share care with her) So many what if's.

Miss 6 hates school. That is a hard one too. Her Dad wouldn't want me
unschooling. (I am a single mum.) I hate the thought of her sweet
energy sitting at a desk, teacher droning on.... hate the days she
doesn't want to go... but then having my kids here all the time I
think of the long Xmas break and how relieved I am when they go back -
that last week or two is like cabin fever (OK our tropical weather is
so darned awful you are basically stuck where there is aircon or prone
in a pool of sweat if like me, there is only an aircon in one
bedroom!) For my own sanity I don't think I could handle Miss 6 but my
values are opposed to my perceived personal limitations.

I never heard of unschooling. How did I find this? I was searching
something about homeschool on google, to try and change my perspective
on why I hate it so much....

I don't know if anyone can make sense of the muddle that is me right
now. I would love to hear if any fellow Aussies, or Queenslanders,
might have something to offer in way of advice or perspective.

Donni
www.impopia.com

trektheory

I'm not from Australia, and don't really unschool, but when I read
your post, a couple things struck me.

One thing I was wondering -- could your son have some other sort of
learning disability, or vision issue? If he was reading ahead of
age/grade level and now struggles -- that sounds like a red flag to
me. Are you using high-interest materials, things that he would find
interesting? If you read the materials aloud to him, would he find
them interesting. (Hey, I have a 14 yr old, and I still read some
things to him!) I have a friend elsewhere who has talked about how
vision therapy helped her son. It wasn't the traditional glasses-
needing issues, nor dyslexia, but the vision therapy was a big help.
Perhaps someone else will be able to fill in the gaps there for you,
since I can't remember the specific type of opthomologist you need.

Also, to meet his needs, while still satisfying school officials who
have you in their radar, could you do some combination of
approaches? Define what you think they will need to see, discuss it
with your son (you might be surprised at what suggestions he comes up
with!), and give it a try. Don't forget, there are some wonderful
videos to help with learning about history, science, all sorts of
stuff. Even literature -- find the movie, discuss it, maybe read the
book afterwards so he gains greater understanding of what the author
was doing, after already familiar with the story. Or not, you need
to evaluate what will work best for you two.

If your son is indeed Aspie, another good thing might be to work on
affective skills -- things that will help him learn to "read" people
and social situations. Things that the average person picks up
automatically from observation, an aspergers kid needs to learn more
formally. From things I have heard, they WANT to understand, want to
interact, but just don't get it, on how to do that appropriately.

As for your 6 yr old -- if your ex wouldn't accept unschooling, would
he accept some other form of homeschooling? The term may be off-
putting to some, or many, and if you either call it child-directed or
interest-based learning, or eclectic homeschooling (that's what I do -
- a mixed bag), perhaps you could figure out something palatable to
him, while saving her love of learning for her and you.

Best of luck to you on your hsing journey. (BTW, I've got a "high
schooler" and it isn't so bad!)

Linda



--- In [email protected], "Donni" <donni@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I did a search here for Australia, found one thread from 4 months
> ago... so thought I should post. I live in Townsville.
>
> My son is 12 and in his last year of primary school. We always had
> difficulties with him, with attendance at school. Have been to
mental
> health specialists but lost faith in them (long story.) His
behaviour
> mainly manifested at home so I was seen as the neurotic mother
looking
> for a label to excuse bad parenting. I have 2 other kids, 13 and 6,
> they are fine.
>
> April 2005 saw an incident at school that brought us in the eyes of
> the authorities. Since then he did not one bit of schoolwork and was
> continually suspended. This year he lasted 2 hours at school before
> suspension and discussion with principal, decided to go the
homeschool
> route rather than inevitable expulsion, essentially leaving the door
> open for eventual re-integtration (esp with high school next year!)
On
> the pension, this is very expensive for me in a state that
supposedly
> provides education for all.
>
> He is doing pretty great in light of no work for almost a year but
it
> is taking my whole day and where is the joy of learning? I hate it!
We
> are now behind 7 school days in work. He asks me "Mum, how does this
> learn me?" (Great grammar there, ha!) and I am buggered if I can
> answer that.
>
> I am very very close to the unschool method but of course, the
> authorities as such know about us... breaking the law.... so what?
> Myself and the school he attended believe he is Tourettes or high
> functioning autistic (aspergers.) I tend to agree. The professionals
> just say "maladjusted to life cos his dad isn't in it" after short
> periods of time with him. He is VERY obsessed with computer. When he
> was 10 he was evaluated at reading ability of 13 years plus. Now he
> hates reading and that is a struggle. He virtually sails thru all
the
> maths.
>
> I have been looking hard at myself. I miss the me time to create my
> glass beads. Am I considering this out of selfishness and laziness?
My
> options are so limited - further pain being suspended and expelled
and
> bullied and teased by kids at school... but what about the high
school
> years... his "future".... Could family services intervene and take
all
> my kids? I'm sure some do-gooder friend who's views are conservative
> plus would believe they were doing the right thing to make a quiet
> complaint. I don't want to lose my 6 year old in a custody battle (I
> have share care with her) So many what if's.
>
> Miss 6 hates school. That is a hard one too. Her Dad wouldn't want
me
> unschooling. (I am a single mum.) I hate the thought of her sweet
> energy sitting at a desk, teacher droning on.... hate the days she
> doesn't want to go... but then having my kids here all the time I
> think of the long Xmas break and how relieved I am when they go
back -
> that last week or two is like cabin fever (OK our tropical weather
is
> so darned awful you are basically stuck where there is aircon or
prone
> in a pool of sweat if like me, there is only an aircon in one
> bedroom!) For my own sanity I don't think I could handle Miss 6 but
my
> values are opposed to my perceived personal limitations.
>
> I never heard of unschooling. How did I find this? I was searching
> something about homeschool on google, to try and change my
perspective
> on why I hate it so much....
>
> I don't know if anyone can make sense of the muddle that is me right
> now. I would love to hear if any fellow Aussies, or Queenslanders,
> might have something to offer in way of advice or perspective.
>
> Donni
> www.impopia.com
>

[email protected]

Hi Donni and welcome to the group.

It sure sounds like the school system has put your family through quite a lot. My nephew had a similar experience. His mom unschooled him through the last few years of high school and it was such a relief for everyone. He's 22 now and a beautiful, centered, intelligent guy with a love for life and learning.

>>I never heard of unschooling. How did I find this? I was searching something about homeschool on google, to try and change my perspective on why I hate it so much....>>

Well we're glad you found us! Unschooling really is so different from homeschooling with a structured curriculum. It's about living a joyful and interesting life and including your kids and their own interests and passions. The learning happens, just like you said you've seen with your own son.

If you want to read more about unschooling, try this site: www.sandradodd.com/unschooling

--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (12)

"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen

Deb Lewis

***We always had difficulties with him, with attendance at school.***

Do you mean the difficulties were in getting him to go to school, or were
there other problems?

***Have been to mental
health specialists but lost faith in them (long story.) His behaviour
mainly manifested at home so I was seen as the neurotic mother looking
for a label to excuse bad parenting. ***
***Myself and the school he attended believe he is Tourettes or high
functioning autistic (aspergers.) I tend to agree. The professionals
just say "maladjusted to life cos his dad isn't in it" after short
periods of time with him.***

There are reasons/causes/realities behind emotional/behavioral issues
even if a child doesn't have the experience yet to articulate the
problem. Kids express themselves very well if we're tuned in to that
physical and emotional energy. But imagine a child who hates school,
for any or all of the really good reasons there are to hate school, and
the child has no choice. Can't stay home and do what he loves, can't
hang out with mom, but has to go to a place he hates, with people he
doesn't like, and do things he doesn't care about. Which of us under
similar circumstances wouldn't act out?

***a label to excuse bad parenting.***

Because kids are so dependant on us a lot of kid problems really do start
with parents. Looking at *ourselves* is a good place to start. It's
easy in the sense that we have full, complete and constant access to our
own brain and motivations. We have a record of our past actions and if
we're willing to analyze you can correct our mistakes. We don't get this
kind of access to any other brain so starting within ourselves is the
best thing we can do. It's difficult if that internal examination
reveals things we'd rather not know about ourselves but it's a good thing
to do for our kids and for our journey closer to unschooling.

***April 2005 saw an incident at school that brought us in the eyes of
the authorities. ***

Do you mean authorities as in the police?

***He is doing pretty great in light of no work for almost a year but it
is taking my whole day and where is the joy of learning? I hate it! We
are now behind 7 school days in work. He asks me "Mum, how does this
learn me?" (Great grammar there, ha!) and I am buggered if I can
answer that.***

***I am very very close to the unschool method but of course, the
authorities as such know about us... breaking the law.... so what?***

I don't think what you're doing is close to unschooling. I'm just
putting this out there for you to do with what you will. But there are
hints in your writing regarding what you've been doing and how you're
thinking on certain issues that reveal a lack of understanding of
unschooling.
If you think it's worth looking into there are lots of places to get
information.

There are some writings on unschooling at the following links. If you
are working toward unschooling these writings may help.
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://www.unschooling.info/articles.htm

My recommendation to you is read here and at the links provided. Find
an Australian unschooling list and join - they can give you ideas about
dealing with authorities. ( http://homeschoolaustralia.beverleypaine.com/
) (This was the only one listed at Sandra's site, but it's a place to
start.) Stop doing "school" work with your son. Instead, do things he
loves to do. Don't think about school. Think about all the ways you can
bring joy back into your son's life and then do that.

***He asks me "Mum, how does this learn me?" ***

I like that! <g> It's a good question. How does it learn him to be
miserable and unhappy and stressed and worried and full of self doubt?
Very good question. You have a smart kid.

***He is VERY obsessed with computer. ***

I wouldn't use the word "obsessed" to describe his interest. In the
first place it's not a very respectful way to talk about someone's
passion and second it implies the person with the interest is actually
ill. It's an interest. Support it and encourage it the way you hope
your friends will support and encourage your interest in beading.

***I have been looking hard at myself. I miss the me time to create my
glass beads. ***

I imagine that's similar to the way your son has felt, trapped in the
school system, no freedom to do what he loves or be the person he wants
to be...

***Am I considering this out of selfishness and laziness?***

It's not selfish or lazy to want a peaceful life of joy. It seems to me
it would be selfish and lazy to leave your unhappy son in the hands of
the others who've orchestrated his misery. You're considering the
happiness and emotional health of your family, which is what moms are
supposed to do.

***My options are so limited ***

You have a lot of options. You get to decide which options you are
willing to live with.

***but then having my kids here all the time I
think of the long Xmas break and how relieved I am when they go back -
that last week or two is like cabin fever ***

You should change this even if you ultimately decide to leave your kids
in school. Your kids deserve a mother *delighted* to be with them.
If circumstances keep you in the house make the house a joyful place to
be. What do your kids love? We'll help you with ideas about how to
accommodate them.

When it's hot is there a local pool you can go to, a lake, a river? Can
you get their dad to help you get a pool for home? We're lately having
summers with temperatures above a hundred degrees and the three foot
deep, eight foot pool we set up in the back yard (one of those inflatable
jobs with big squishy side walls) has been glorious fun for all of us.
Water gun fights, water balloon fights, sprinklers, all cooling fun
outdoor activities for hot weather. Maybe you have water conservation
restrictions so the sprinklers would be out but a trip to a campground on
a lake would be so worth the effort.

Is it cooler at night? Stay up at night playing outside and sleep
during the hot day, watch movies, eat ice cream.

***For my own sanity I don't think I could handle Miss 6 but my
values are opposed to my perceived personal limitations.***

I hope you can take encouragement from knowing that understanding the
unschooling philosophy can help you be a person who feels really free to
enjoy kids. And will help your kids feel free to be people you will
enjoy being around. If an adversarial relationship exists between you
and your kids, unschooling can help you repair it, quickly. It will
take work on your part, a change in attitude and a real desire to live a
different kind of life with your kids.

Lots of women have gotten the message that they can't be really fulfilled
when they're with their kids. Not true. Lots of moms get the message
that we're supposed to be driven nuts by our kids. Not true. How does
this learn you? <g> Have you raised kids who are no fun to be around and
why did you do that? It's not a question you need to answer here but if
you think about it I believe you'll see your kids differently, and maybe
see ways you can be different (better) with your kids.

Deb Lewis

Deb Lewis

***could your son have some other sort of
learning disability, or vision issue? ***

I think in every possible way this child should be encouraged to feel
whole and perfect. Healing is an important step toward a better life
for this boy and labeling him with more problems won't heal any of his
wounds.

***If he was reading ahead of
age/grade level and now struggles -- that sounds like a red flag to
me. ***

"Ahead of grade level" doesn't mean a thing. The mom wrote her son
"hates to read and that is a struggle" meaning a struggle for the mom to
get him to read. So, let's ask why he hates to read. Probably because
he's been made to read when he didn't want to. Forcing more reading will
not make him want to read. It will create tension and bad feelings
between mom and son and further dislike and avoidance of reading. He
needs to be completely free from the pressure to read. There's a world
of things he could be enjoying and doing without reading. Reading is one
tiny sprinkle on the banana split of life. <g> Schools turn that tiny
sprinkle into a giant booger for most kids and then the banana split of
life is disappointing and disgusting. The red flag here is *wounded
child* and everyone should immediately stop hurting him. (and stop
flinging boogers at him.)

***Are you using high-interest materials, things that he would find
interesting?***

We're hoping to help this mom move away from the thing (school) that has
been such a joy killer for her son. Let's encourage this mom to stop
all activities that resemble school so her son can recover. She doesn't
need to "use high-interest materials" to help her have an interesting
life. Better advice would be "joyfully help your son do what he loves."


Deb Lewis

[email protected]

>>Reading is one tiny sprinkle on the banana split of life. <g> Schools turn that tiny sprinkle into a giant booger for most kids and then the banana split of life is disappointing and disgusting.>>

Okay this is now my favorite analogy ever! You are so funny Deb! And this is sooooo true.

--
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***Okay this is now my favorite analogy ever!***

I fiercely suck at analogies but I keep slinging them out there. You
give me hope, Mary. <g>

Deb

trektheory

--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>
wrote:
>
> ***Are you using high-interest materials, things that he would
find
> interesting?***
>
> We're hoping to help this mom move away from the thing (school)
that has
> been such a joy killer for her son. Let's encourage this mom to
stop
> all activities that resemble school so her son can recover. She
doesn't
> need to "use high-interest materials" to help her have an
interesting
> life. Better advice would be "joyfully help your son do what he
loves."
>

By high interest, I meant things HE finds highly interesting. Just
FYI -- not curricular material intented to be of high interest to
reluctant learners, when they haven't a clue what that particular
learner will be interested in.... (High interest is so person, no?
What my son finds highly interesting, might be incredibly boring to
the next person.)

Linda

Deb Lewis

***By high interest, I meant things HE finds highly interesting.***

I realize that but what you wrote was: "Are you using high-interest
materials.."

Why would an unschooling parent "use" high interest material? That
implies the parent has a goal to get the child to do something or to
learn something. But the goal isn't to get kids to do something that
looks educational the goal is to help kids do the things they want to do.

Unschooling parents do help their kids lead interesting lives and that
might include getting things for them or taking them to places of
interest. That's not the same as a parent "using high-interest
materials."

Deb Lewis

S Drag-teine

Yes, but even if my son is interested in learning something he will tell me,
"Mom there is a fun way to learn something and a boring way to learn
something and this is the boring way."

When those words come out of his mouth we have either exhausted his interest
or we need new materials.

Shannon

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deb Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: high interest


***By high interest, I meant things HE finds highly interesting.***

I realize that but what you wrote was: "Are you using high-interest
materials.."

Why would an unschooling parent "use" high interest material? That
implies the parent has a goal to get the child to do something or to
learn something. But the goal isn't to get kids to do something that
looks educational the goal is to help kids do the things they want to do.

Unschooling parents do help their kids lead interesting lives and that
might include getting things for them or taking them to places of
interest. That's not the same as a parent "using high-interest
materials."

Deb Lewis



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