chrfath816

Hi I am Christi, I stay home with our two children. Wheatley just
turned 8 and Veronica will be 3 in April. I love the freedom we
have found through unschooling. I will say we are still in
transition and just living life. I am working on getting my DH to
stop asking DS what he has learned today. But, my DH has alot to
work on - that is another story.

I will probably have lots of questions as time goes on. I love
reading and learning from everyone.

My question now is does anyone know anyone who has unschooled a
child with Down syndrome? Veronica has down syndrome and I have to
say I question myself regarding her all the time. I find very
little support for homeschooling her. I belong to a few yahoo
groups but - they are pretty mainstream homeschoolers. There are
all these - comments and opinions about how "they" learn and the
best way to teach them. Sometimes I really wonder if I do need to
do something different with her.

I don't really know why I wonder so much because although she is
delayed she really is moving along and I see her learning all the
time, and figuring things out in her own way and in her own time.

Well, I have yammered on long enough. I look forward to reading and
meeting everyone.

Christi

Deb

Hi Christi

The short answer is yes you have to do something different with her -
but not because of Down Syndrome but simply because Veronica is
Veronica just as Wheatley is Wheatley and Christi is Christi.

Would finding some outside resources help? Maybe. I haven't been in
your shoes so I can't say. Follow your heart - it'll know what you
need to do

Hugs
--Deb

Melissa

Hey...my Breanna has autism. Unschooling is an awesome way for any
child to live...and everyone who knows Bre has seen how much happier
she is now than she has been since she was three (and was dragged
into the schooling world) we've been out of school for almost a year,
and unschooling for four months.

BTW...I'm Melissa, in Oklahoma
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose


On Feb 27, 2006, at 3:08 PM, chrfath816 wrote:

> Hi I am Christi, I stay home with our two children. Wheatley just
> turned 8 and Veronica will be 3 in April. I love the freedom we
> have found through unschooling. I will say we are still in
> transition and just living life. I am working on getting my DH to
> stop asking DS what he has learned today. But, my DH has alot to
> work on - that is another story.

reina scheiber-loeis

hi, i'm new and just posted an intro a couple of days ago. i have to get
this off of my shoulders once and for all. in the back of my mind i know
that this question shouldn't really come up if i believe in unschooling, but
it keeps nagging at me so i would love to hear how some responses.



my biggest doubt about unschooling is how to teach my children to write. my
dh and i are both architects. in our case this means that we are very
visual. as it turns out neither of us really write well and we realise that
this is a critical skill later in life. how would we help our children learn
how to write if we don't know how to write well? i love to read (dh doesn't)
but this doesn't seem to have helped me become a better writer. my ds will
be trilingual (he's 17 mo) hopefully and this makes the problem even worse,
since i wouldn't be able to guage how he's doing in his father's mother
tongue (german). dh is also not so very fluent in english since his
day-to-day work activity is in german even though we live in new york city.
also, he doens't speak a word of my mother tongue which is indonesian. so
this also adds to the confusion. i would be very happy if my ds could
eventually write well just in english.



i know that to unschool you have to trust in the child and his built-in
desire to learn but my self-doubt is getting the better of me. would i try
to get someone else to help him with this skill when he shows interest? it
just seems to me that writing is such a long term learning skill that one of
his parents should know how to do this well. otherwise it seems to me that
my ds will be short changed.



i'm also enjoying the discussion about letting the child choose their own
foods. completely unheard of where i come from (i also have food issues)! my
brain is reeling from so much information - in a good way though :-)



tia,

reina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanne

Hi Riena (pretty name!)

(I hope none of this is a repeat of what may have been posted. I
didn't read the replies yet)

I think it may be helpful for you to stop saying that you don't
write well. :-) I understood your post just fine and I'm sure
everyone else did also. I didn't see any typos and if there was, it
wasn't anymore than some of mine probably have had. :-)

That bit of information was very helpful to me when I first read it
(I think on unschooling.com) because I always thought of myself as
not good in math, because that's what school told me. But in
reality, my everyday math is pretty good....and so is your
writing. :-)

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/







--- In [email protected], "reina scheiber-loeis"
<rloeis@...> wrote:
>
> hi, i'm new and just posted an intro a couple of days ago. i have
to get
> this off of my shoulders once and for all. in the back of my mind
i know
> that this question shouldn't really come up if i believe in
unschooling, but
> it keeps nagging at me so i would love to hear how some responses.
>
>
>
> my biggest doubt about unschooling is how to teach my children to
write. my
> dh and i are both architects. in our case this means that we are
very
> visual. as it turns out neither of us really write well and we
realise that
> this is a critical skill later in life. how would we help our
children learn
> how to write if we don't know how to write well? i love to read
(dh doesn't)
> but this doesn't seem to have helped me become a better writer. my
ds will
> be trilingual (he's 17 mo) hopefully and this makes the problem
even worse,
> since i wouldn't be able to guage how he's doing in his father's
mother
> tongue (german). dh is also not so very fluent in english since his
> day-to-day work activity is in german even though we live in new
york city.
> also, he doens't speak a word of my mother tongue which is
indonesian. so
> this also adds to the confusion. i would be very happy if my ds
could
> eventually write well just in english.
>
>
>
> i know that to unschool you have to trust in the child and his
built-in
> desire to learn but my self-doubt is getting the better of me.
would i try
> to get someone else to help him with this skill when he shows
interest? it
> just seems to me that writing is such a long term learning skill
that one of
> his parents should know how to do this well. otherwise it seems to
me that
> my ds will be short changed.
>
>
>
> i'm also enjoying the discussion about letting the child choose
their own
> foods. completely unheard of where i come from (i also have food
issues)! my
> brain is reeling from so much information - in a good way though :-
)
>
>
>
> tia,
>
> reina.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

S Drag-teine

A friend of mine (who helped raise me) and I both homeschool - okay well she
homeschools and I unschool though she is working on the unschooling part she
just pulled her kids out of PSS and well. baby-steps, baby-steps.



She has three kids B10, G7.9 and G6. Mine are B5.5 and G1.2.



Anyway, when her oldest and my oldest get together they generally end up
rough housing and one ends up hurt then the one that got hurt hurts the
other and back and forth one out doing the other until one of them has
enough and comes and get one of us.



They usually go back and forth blaming who started when it comes down to the
fact that they were rough housing and it got out of control. We don't assign
blame and we try to defuse the situation or I one of us tried to stay in the
room but we are often told to "go away" that they are playing. We know this
means they are up to something they don't want us to know about but it is
always harmless except the times that the boys start rough housing.



I don't think they intend to hurt each other and it is never more then a
bump or bruise occasionally a scrape and the grossest think B10 does is lick
people. I try to mediate though I really don't want to hear who started
because the blame game is endless and all it comes down to is that they got
too excited, one got hurt by accident and the other strikes out at the other
in response.



I need a better way to defuse the situation. Any ideas to keep it from
happening? A way to improve the way they deal with each other. What to do or
say when they want me to go away?



Shannon

<http://www.melaleuca.com/> Melaleuca Customer



<http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2&r_by=triskele@...> Join
our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>my biggest doubt about unschooling is how to teach my children to write. my dh and i are both architects. in our case this means that we are very visual. as it turns out neither of us really write well and we realise that this is a critical skill later in life.>>

If it's so critical, then how can you and your husband function as successful adults without this skill? How are you communicating on this list without being able to write? That's meant to be a joke of course. Writing a certain way is critical for school success, but this is unschooling and the process and form will flow differently. Your ability to think and read and write as well as you do will enable you to help your child learn when the time is right.

And what kind of writing are you thinking of? There's the ability to physically form letters and words on paper, the skill of typing, the flair of telling a good story, the technique of putting together an editorial, etc. Some people are more drawn to one type of communicating than another. That's okay.

>>i would be very happy if my ds could
eventually write well just in english.>>

He will. He's young now and it's so easy to become overwhelmed, but really he will learn. Even though he's exposed to other languages at home, he lives in the US. He'll be immersed in English. Surround him with books and tapes and music and pictures and stories. Give him plenty of paper and crayons and foam letters and paint and clay. You'll see him learn when he's ready.

--
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "reina scheiber-loeis" <rloeis@...>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanne

Hi Shannon,

Instead of trying to diffuse it when it's happening, talk to them
before it happens...when you first get together. It's easier to
discuss something like this when it's NOT happening.

We keep our hands (and feet) to ourselves in my home and that
includes guests. One one end, I have a 7 year old girl who would be
the one most likely to get hurt whenever any type of physical
touching activity went on...and on the other end I have a VERY tall
13 year old who could easily hurt another child without even
realising it.

Being present with your kids would probably be a good thing also.
You asked for ways to help them deal with each other. By being
nearby and available, you can help them before it happens and needs
to be diffused. Maybe get out of the house when they come over...go
to a park or something. If they have that much energy, maybe a bike
ride or roller blading would be a way to get some of that energy out
and nobody gets hurt.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/




--- In [email protected], "S Drag-teine"
<dragteine@...> wrote:
>
> A friend of mine (who helped raise me) and I both homeschool -
okay well she
> homeschools and I unschool though she is working on the
unschooling part she
> just pulled her kids out of PSS and well. baby-steps, baby-steps.
>
>
>
> She has three kids B10, G7.9 and G6. Mine are B5.5 and G1.2.
>
>
>
> Anyway, when her oldest and my oldest get together they generally
end up
> rough housing and one ends up hurt then the one that got hurt
hurts the
> other and back and forth one out doing the other until one of them
has
> enough and comes and get one of us.
>
>
>
> They usually go back and forth blaming who started when it comes
down to the
> fact that they were rough housing and it got out of control. We
don't assign
> blame and we try to defuse the situation or I one of us tried to
stay in the
> room but we are often told to "go away" that they are playing. We
know this
> means they are up to something they don't want us to know about
but it is
> always harmless except the times that the boys start rough housing.
>
>
>
> I don't think they intend to hurt each other and it is never more
then a
> bump or bruise occasionally a scrape and the grossest think B10
does is lick
> people. I try to mediate though I really don't want to hear who
started
> because the blame game is endless and all it comes down to is that
they got
> too excited, one got hurt by accident and the other strikes out at
the other
> in response.
>
>
>
> I need a better way to defuse the situation. Any ideas to keep it
from
> happening? A way to improve the way they deal with each other.
What to do or
> say when they want me to go away?
>
>
>
> Shannon
>
> <http://www.melaleuca.com/> Melaleuca Customer
>
>
>
> <http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2&r_by=triskele@...>
Join
> our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

reina scheiber-loeis

> If it's so critical, then how can you and your husband function as
successful adults without this skill?

*******************************

hhhhhm. good one! we do (did) function well in our jobs, i'm a SAHM now. but
i've always felt very uncomfortable when my work required me to write since
i realise that however long i spend on it i will not reach the level of
eloquence that i would like to have. i think i write more now that i stay at
home and belong to so many yahoo groups :o)



> And what kind of writing are you thinking of? There's the ability to
physically form letters and words on paper, the skill of typing, the flair
of telling a good story, the technique of putting together an editorial,
etc. Some people are more drawn to one type of communicating than another.
That's okay.

*******************************

i guess i'm talking more about the flair of telling a good story and putting
together an editorial (i can't do that, and i know dh can't do this in
english - not sure about german). the basic skills i'm not so afraid of
since dictionaries and spell check is all around us! i've noticed that my
language skills depend very much with whom i communicate with within a
relatively short period of time. if i don't talk to an adult for a couple of
days, once i do the words don't come out so easily. this is very frustrating
to me and another source of self-doubt - i would like my ds to communicate
his thoughts easily in at least one language.



and you're right, it's really ok for me to be able to communicate one way
and not another. but when it comes to my ds, i want him to have what i don't
have! this is really the key issue - more about me than anything else. i'm
sure this is a normal feeling and a reason why people send their children to
preK with a price tag of ivy league schools.



> He's young now and it's so easy to become overwhelmed, but really he will
learn.

*******************************

yes!!!!! you're right! i know i need to relax, but unschooling is such a BIG
decision that i need to think about it from now. i know i will get a lot of
resistance so i have to load up on knowledge and feel comfortable with it
before i can make others around us comfortable with it too. my MIL was an
elementary school principal and my parents in a passive way pushed us to
excel in school.



>Surround him with books and tapes and music and pictures and stories. Give
him plenty of paper and crayons and foam letters and paint and clay. You'll
see him learn when he's ready.
*******************************

we have a foam mat on the floor with the alphabet on it. not because we want
him to learn the letters, but we couldn't find a foam mat without letters!
when we first got the mat my husband started pointing out letters to him but
i asked him to stop. then a couple of weeks ago my ds (17 months) pointed to
a letter, looked at me and asked me what it was (he has a standard "das da?"
question for everything). so i told him what letter it was. it happened to
be an "M" and my husband a couple of weeks back had told him that "M" is for
"mama". so he said, "M, mama". he also recognizes the letters "P", "D", "A"
and asks about random letters sometimes. he also points out the letter "M"
in different signs. like CMOM (children's museum of manhattan).

what would unschoolers do in this case? after reading "how children learn" i
started to point to the words i was reading to him, mostly dr. seuss books
and he started to move my finger around so i read what he wanted me to read.
i was afraid at first that he was just repeating what my dh was saying to
him, but it seems that he understands the concept of letters and reading,
could this be at 17 mo? i acknowledge his interest in the letter M but don't
try to point out other letters unless he asks me specifically. he does get
excited when he finds an "M" somewhere and i do get excited with him by
matching his tone and facial expression. he also asks us to read signs on
the street by specifically pointing to them and will keep pointing till we
read it.

what would other people do?



thanks,

reina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"i was afraid at first that he was just repeating what my dh was
saying to him, but it seems that he understands the concept of letters
and reading, could this be at 17 mo?"

I know a child personally, that read proficiently at 16 months. He's
the exception though!:)
Your child is leading you by asking for the information he wants.
That's great! Keep on interacting with him and answering his curiosity.
Just keep in mind, that he may read very early, or (like my Jared)
read much later. An interest in letters and words at a very young age
doesn't always mean they'll read early.

Jared was fascinated with words and letters, wrote his name well at
4y.o., but just started reading this year at 12. If you just keep on
fulfilling his desire for the information he wants and living life,
he'll read when he's good and ready.

Trust the journey. Maybe you'll start to see that school lied to
you...you are not "bad at writing". You've been duped and it's time to
start embracing the things you're good at and let those old wounds heal.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/27/2006 5:49:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rloeis@... writes:

my biggest doubt about unschooling is how to teach my children to write. my
dh and i are both architects. in our case this means that we are very
visual. as it turns out neither of us really write well and we realise that
this is a critical skill later in life. how would we help our children learn
how to write if we don't know how to write well?


************

I agree with the other posters.....I could read what you wrote and
understand it easily! That is the point of writing, to communicate ideas. Not all of
us can be poets or bestselling authors, that is a gift, not unlike an
architect's visual gifts. :)

My husband is not a strong writer and he does have to write frequently for
his work. He's been through several writing courses (he's military, part of
the job to have this continued education). He struggles through these
courses, barely passing them. The interesting thing is that as his personal editor,
I get to see writing from many of his co-workers and about half of them can
write and the other half can barely form sentences. They were all schooled
and some of them went to prestigious colleges, and they all have to take these
writing courses every few years. Some of the important documents just limp
along until they get put on someone's desk that can correct them. I have
rewritten dozens of letters and requests of some of the men that work under my
husband. They can be so poorly written that I have no idea what they even
asking for!

When I worked, there was always someone in the office that was a gifted
writer. Anything important was always run by that person.

Even schooled people are not necessarily good writers. In fact, most people
I've been around in the working world were barely functional writers. But
they knew it and got help when it was needed.

But I think children today have a great advantage over our generation. They
actually use the written word on the computer in their day-to-day
communications! I think the extent of my non-assignment writing as a child was passing
notes in class. :)

Unschooling does not mean ONLY learning from your parents. When your child
has need for more than you can provide, you will be able to find someone who
can. Or it is something you can learn together!

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

Funny thing is, is that I think you just answered your own question and
validated yourself.

Welcome to the group!

Lesa

-------Original Message-------

From: chrfath816
Date: 02/27/06 18:40:12
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Introduction and question...

I don't really know why I wonder so much because although she is
delayed she really is moving along and I see her learning all the
time, and figuring things out in her own way and in her own time.



Christi







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

From: reina scheiber-loeis

>>>and you're right, it's really ok for me to be able to communicate one way
and not another. but when it comes to my ds, i want him to have what i don't
have! this is really the key issue - more about me than anything else.<<<

goodness, don't we all... I had to deschool myself with this idea, too. my
DD is a unique individual and will do things how she does them... not what I
would like for her to do or be. I've lived my life feeling that who I am
and what I do is not enough... and I want my daughter to know way down deep
in the core of who she is, that she is enough, period. You hit the nail
right on the head... the issue is with you.


>>>i know i need to relax, but unschooling is such a BIG
decision that i need to think about it from now. i know i will get a lot of
resistance so i have to load up on knowledge and feel comfortable with it
before i can make others around us comfortable with it too.<<<

You can't change how other's feel about your decicions. And really to feel
comfortable with unschooling, you need to feel comfortable with who you are
(or be willing to work on the processes nessecary to become so). I've also
found it helpful to not go into details about how our homeschool is run. I
ve never mentioned unschooling to family (just the issue of homeschooling
caused huge issues).


>>>after reading "how children learn" i
started to point to the words i was reading to him, mostly dr. seuss books
and he started to move my finger around so i read what he wanted me to read.
i was afraid at first that he was just repeating what my dh was saying to
him, but it seems that he understands the concept of letters and reading,
could this be at 17 mo?<<<

certainly, children are learning all the time, why not at 17 mo. you're
little one is self-direct learning already! how fun is that! :)

>>>i acknowledge his interest in the letter M but don't
try to point out other letters unless he asks me specifically. he does get
excited when he finds an "M" somewhere and i do get excited with him by
matching his tone and facial expression. he also asks us to read signs on
the street by specifically pointing to them and will keep pointing till we
read it.<<<

You have a beautiful example of what unschooling is already in your little
one. Enjoy it! It's life, it's beautiful, it's grace, it's fun! Relax and
just live in freedom.


Lesa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

S Drag-teine

I have discussed it with each of them before it happens.

We are a fairly physical group and we do lots of stuff unfortunately with
the weather being really cold, windy, rainy, and generally unpleasant we
don't do a lot outside. My son grew up here in Maryland and he goes outside
almost no matter what - even in the rain unless it is lightening. The other
three grew up in Tenn and are used to mild or hot weather and so prefer to
stay inside unless the weather is nice and even then it is difficult to get
them outside except the youngest who seems to enjoy it outside.

I am always nearby and available but they also know that if they are going
to wrestle around or even using stuff animals to play their version of
"pokemon" dueling that if someone gets hurt - they aren't to hurt each
other.

Part of the problem I see is that they are both the oldest child and used to
getting their own way. They both think of the other as a brother and so it
doesn't always bother me when they disagree until mine says that he doesn't
want to be around anyone but his girlfriend.

Although we can't get outside, they are all artistic and we have decided to
start planning some art activities when they all get together. I know that
at least one will not want to do something we plan and that is okay but if
we can direct some of the energy until this spring when we can start going
outside we have a shot at defusing some of the battles.

Shannon
Melaleuca Customer

Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joanne
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Questions

Hi Shannon,

Instead of trying to diffuse it when it's happening, talk to them
before it happens...when you first get together. It's easier to
discuss something like this when it's NOT happening.

We keep our hands (and feet) to ourselves in my home and that
includes guests. One one end, I have a 7 year old girl who would be
the one most likely to get hurt whenever any type of physical
touching activity went on...and on the other end I have a VERY tall
13 year old who could easily hurt another child without even
realising it.

Being present with your kids would probably be a good thing also.
You asked for ways to help them deal with each other. By being
nearby and available, you can help them before it happens and needs
to be diffused. Maybe get out of the house when they come over...go
to a park or something. If they have that much energy, maybe a bike
ride or roller blading would be a way to get some of that energy out
and nobody gets hurt.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/




--- In [email protected], "S Drag-teine"
<dragteine@...> wrote:
>
> A friend of mine (who helped raise me) and I both homeschool -
okay well she
> homeschools and I unschool though she is working on the
unschooling part she
> just pulled her kids out of PSS and well. baby-steps, baby-steps.
>
>
>
> She has three kids B10, G7.9 and G6. Mine are B5.5 and G1.2.
>
>
>
> Anyway, when her oldest and my oldest get together they generally
end up
> rough housing and one ends up hurt then the one that got hurt
hurts the
> other and back and forth one out doing the other until one of them
has
> enough and comes and get one of us.
>
>
>
> They usually go back and forth blaming who started when it comes
down to the
> fact that they were rough housing and it got out of control. We
don't assign
> blame and we try to defuse the situation or I one of us tried to
stay in the
> room but we are often told to "go away" that they are playing. We
know this
> means they are up to something they don't want us to know about
but it is
> always harmless except the times that the boys start rough housing.
>
>
>
> I don't think they intend to hurt each other and it is never more
then a
> bump or bruise occasionally a scrape and the grossest think B10
does is lick
> people. I try to mediate though I really don't want to hear who
started
> because the blame game is endless and all it comes down to is that
they got
> too excited, one got hurt by accident and the other strikes out at
the other
> in response.
>
>
>
> I need a better way to defuse the situation. Any ideas to keep it
from
> happening? A way to improve the way they deal with each other.
What to do or
> say when they want me to go away?
>
>
>
> Shannon
>
> <http://www.melaleuca.com/> Melaleuca Customer
>
>
>
> <http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2&r_by=triskele@...>
Join
> our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







Yahoo! Groups Links

S Drag-teine

My son had an early interest in letters but at 5.5 he is only now getting
interested in being read stories and non-fiction books. Yesterday, he told
"mom, books are magic." I said "they are?" He nodded and said, "yeah, cause
they know everything!"

Shannon
Melaleuca Customer

Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] self-doubt

"i was afraid at first that he was just repeating what my dh was
saying to him, but it seems that he understands the concept of letters
and reading, could this be at 17 mo?"

I know a child personally, that read proficiently at 16 months. He's
the exception though!:)
Your child is leading you by asking for the information he wants.
That's great! Keep on interacting with him and answering his curiosity.
Just keep in mind, that he may read very early, or (like my Jared)
read much later. An interest in letters and words at a very young age
doesn't always mean they'll read early.

Jared was fascinated with words and letters, wrote his name well at
4y.o., but just started reading this year at 12. If you just keep on
fulfilling his desire for the information he wants and living life,
he'll read when he's good and ready.

Trust the journey. Maybe you'll start to see that school lied to
you...you are not "bad at writing". You've been duped and it's time to
start embracing the things you're good at and let those old wounds heal.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






Yahoo! Groups Links

S Drag-teine

My son wants to begin writing his letters but isn't interested in reading
yet. My husband thinks that he should know how to read what he is writing.
Right now he is only interested in writing the letters not making words with
them. He tells me just the letters - the big letters. Those of you who are
in this process or have gone through it did your children write or read
first?



Shannon

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], "S Drag-teine"
<dragteine@...> wrote:
> Those of you who are
> in this process or have gone through it did your children write or
>read
> first?
>
>
>
> Shannon
Um, can I pick Both? He was drawing letters, as in, he would draw a
house, a car, an M, a sun, a rocketship, a B, etc. They were shapes
and squiggles that were in his environment so they got on paper.
Over time, he connected that these shapes communicated information -
for ex: he saw me making grocery lists, paying bills, writing to-do
lists for myself, etc. He also saw these same shapes in books and
magazines and signs and such. So it was all tumbled together in
making connections between the shapes and combining them
into 'words'. I have around here somewhere his first grocery list
made when he was around 4 - he asked me to tell him the letters one
at a time for the words he wanted to write Carrots Milk Cheese I
think it is (gotta go hunt it down before it's gone). So, seeing the
shapes, making the shapes, combining the shapes, reading were all
part and parcel of a continuum, not separated at all. Kind of like
trying to pick out individual ingredients in soup. You can see the
veggies, the meat, maybe some seasonings, rice or pasta, and so on,
but they are not separate on the plate, they all merge together and
taste great. To pick each part out separately is to no longer have
soup - it's meat and veggies and broth on a plate side by side.

--Deb

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:

> Those of you who are
> in this process or have gone through it did your children write or
> read
> first?

Write. :-)

And she hasn't stopped. Though she did pick up how to read at a some
point ;-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>> Those of you who are in this process or have gone through it did your children write or read first?>>

Both of my kids were writing letters and words with my assistance well before they could read.

--
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "S Drag-teine" <dragteine@...>

Lisa H

<< Those of you who are
in this process or have gone through it did your children write or read
first?>>

Writing definitely precedes reading in this house.
Lisa Heyman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Su Penn

Joyce (or others): What does it look like when a kid writes before
they read? I'm curious about what exactly they're doing.

Su

On Feb 28, 2006, at 5:18 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> Write. :-)
>
> And she hasn't stopped. Though she did pick up how to read at a some
> point ;-)

Lisa H

<<Joyce (or others): What does it look like when a kid writes before
they read? I'm curious about what exactly they're doing.>>

From the early scribblings of a two year old (or younger) as soon as they are able to pick up a pen or pencil they will mimick your writings - it may look like scribbles to you but it is writing. if you journal they will journal (i have spiral notebooks of their scribbling), if you make lists their scribbles will look like lists. If you write stories, their scribbles will look like stories. From there it progessed to menus...lists of food for their restaurants, signs for their stores. My girls had businesses set up and needed names and numbers to add credibility to their activity. They were bankers and realators, tax accessors and county clerks, postal clerks and food managers (all depending on where life had taken us in the previous days or weeks)

As they grew, it was no longer scribbles but asked for spellings...how to write a certain letter...how to write a certain word...we had a letter chart posted somewhere on the wall but they always seemed to like it better to copy my writing.

We still do a lot of dictating. My dh and I still will do a lot of writing for them as it's just easier. They know the tool of using the skills of others.

Today my dd asked how a certain letter looked in script. They progress from print to mimicking script...connecting letters...each child has their own ability in writing their letters/words clearly - has nothing to do with age...(linked to fine motor skills)..each child has their own ability in absorbing the concept of capitals and lower cases...

Lisa Heyman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>What does it look like when a kid writes before
they read? I'm curious about what exactly they're doing.>>

My kids knew that the words in books were saying something even before they knew how to read them. Writing with Conor started with his name probably. Little by little he'd write more things when we'd send cards or notes or whatever. I just drew the letters and he copied them. He was probably 4 or 5 when he started. Writing is NOT his thing though and he never liked it. Still doesn't.

Casey was 18 months old when she started learning her letters and three when she started writing and she wrote a lot. Still does.
Her first writing was because she wanted to write a note to her best friend next door. She asked me how to make the letters to write each word she wanted in her note. I described verbally to her how the letters were formed. She put them sort of in order but kind of all over the page. You really had to work to find the words. <g> She just kept at it because she desparately wanted to write. Much more than she wanted to learn to read. She's still more of a writer than a reader although she reads plenty.

Later she moved on to inventive spelling. She was writing so much and asking for so much spelling that I explained she could write the words as they sounded and people would still be able to read it. This really freed her up and she wrote a series of stories like that. She was 5 almost 6 then. Although she could sound out words and do some sight reading, I wouldn't say she was a real reader till about 8 or 9.

--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (12)

"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen

Ren Allen

~>>> Trust the journey. Maybe you'll start to see that school lied to
you...you are not "bad at writing". You've been duped and it's time to
start embracing the things you're good at and let those old wounds heal.

hmmmm... this is really food for thought... i've been thinking about this
since i've read your message Ren several days ago.~

I feel the need to expand on this whole writing issue.:)

There are different kinds of writers, we all know that. But do we
really think about the different ways and methods of writing? Do most
schooled minds really grasp that not everyone needs to be "good at
writing" only good enough to communicate?

What IS "good at writing"?
I can write my feelings and thoughts out. I can write about our lives
and things I feel passionate about, but I have yet to craft a really
well written piece of fiction (in my own opinion).

When I write an article or essay, I send it on to people I know have
good editing skills! I don't place my comma's correctly, nor do I use
the correct grammar some of the time (ok, a lot).
But somehow I've made a bit of money publishing a few articles.:)
So what IS this idea of "being good"? There are different kinds of
"good" in the writing world. There are technical writers and fiction
writers and editors and ghost writers (where someone else will get the
credit for THEIR writing!!) and all different ways of communicating
that can equal "good".

School sends this bizarre message that we all need the SAME set of
skills to succeed in life. It's totally WRONG!
We all were born hardwired with certain skills/gifts/talents.
Our environment either aided or hindered that hardwiring.
So here we are today, each of us with different desires, interests,
passions, skills and talents. That's a really great thing, this
diversity we all bring to the table.

Each person has a unique journey on this earth. Only that person can
choose the skills and talents they need to develop for their journey.
Writing is just one tool amongst many,many tools we can choose to
develop. Even those of us that call ourselves "writers" are not
"good" at every aspect of it!!:) Nor should we carry the baggage
around that we need to be!

Ren, regularly hacking up the English language so others can sort it
out....

learninginfreedom.com

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

Ren,

I love hearing what you have to say. You seem so much further along on the
self-healing journey than I am.

A question for you... how do you continue along your path when friends and
family seem to try to derail you at every turn? I guess I struggle with the
lack of support from those who I feel should support me no matter what.
Most of the time I feel very alone in this world. I'm certain that most
people think I'm nuts.

How do you heal when life keeps flinging #### at you? I've explained to a
dear uncle of mine that I have such deep wounds that even the slightest
scratch hurts and brings back all of the pain. How do you move on from
that?

I think I'm afraid to be seen... afraid of letting the anger out... afraid
of opening up because I am so easily hurt...

I feel pain that's not even mine... not like that's a bad thing... but where
does the healing begin when there is so much pain in the world?

Anyhow, I'd love to hear how you and others start your healing path and your
struggles with it and if you still have stumbling blocks now and again.

Lesa
-who questions everything-

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

reina scheiber-loeis

>>> I've lived my life feeling that who I am
and what I do is not enough... and I want my daughter to know way down deep
in the core of who she is, that she is enough, period.  You hit the nail
right on the head... the issue is with you.

thank you for reaffirming this. now i have to figure out what to do with
this information... it might take some time for my brain to take this all in
and be "retrained". this involves throwing out so much personal bagage and
some "house cleaning" that i shouldn't expect it to happen over night.

*********************************
>>> certainly, children are learning all the time, why not at 17 mo.  you're
little one is self-direct learning already!  how fun is that!  :)

it's an amazing thing! and also lots and lots of fun. yesterday my ds
pointed and said "N" in the word EPSON on a screen right before a
presentation we had attended (he's never pointed out this letter before)...
by watching him i feel more and more comfortable with the thought of
unschooling. on the other hand, that's what i'm already doing right? :o)

*********************************
>>> Not all of us can be poets or bestselling authors, that is a gift,  not
unlike an architect's visual gifts.  :)

Thanks Leslie for this reminder!

*********************************
>>> Trust the journey. Maybe you'll start to see that school lied to
you...you are not "bad at writing". You've been duped and it's time to
start embracing the things you're good at and let those old wounds heal.

hmmmm... this is really food for thought... i've been thinking about this
since i've read your message Ren several days ago.

*********************************

thank you for all of the posts on this thread! i do have more questions and
thoughts flying around in my head. just gotta pin some of em down and write
it out. my head is in a daze, so much new info! it's soooo exciting!

reina.

Ren Allen

"A question for you... how do you continue along your path when
friends and family seem to try to derail you at every turn?"

Avoid them.
Seriously, I think part of the healing journey is to surround yourself
with positive people that are spiritually evolved enough to let you BE.
People that are filled with the joy of LIFE and are interesting and
open minded. They're out there you know. Open yourself up to the
universe, trust that you will find the people you are meant to find
and it will happen.
They might not be unschoolers, but they will honor your unschooling
journey.:) They will be curious, passionate, joyful people that will
enrich your life. They are out there, waiting to connect with you at
just the right moment.

For now, try to limit contact with people that re-open old wounds.
Until you're strong enough to not let it affect you, be very, very
careful about the amount of time and what events you choose to attend
with negative people. None would be best, but I also understand trying
to keep family communication open.
Limit the conversations. Change the subject if it gets too close for
comfort. I've found the best method of deflection is to ask someone a
question about themselves, preferably one that lets them share what
they enjoy or like to brag about.

Find that well of peace within you. Try to remember the perfection
that is YOU...that place of accepting what IS, and who you are right
now. Where you are, is simply where you are. You can't be anywhere
else but right here, right now.
Whatever wounds you carry, that's all part of the
right-here-right-now. It's all ok. Be ok with all of that and make an
agreement with yourself to not push the healing process. It is
happening constantly, as you question and ponder and grow. It is
happening as you trust your children and learn to find the joy in the
simple moments. It is happening as your awareness and mindfulness grows.

As YOU grow, the wounds will seem smaller and less significant. So
don't focus on the hurt or pain, just focus on the joy and
growth....soon it will be enough to diminish all that hurt to the
point that you feel strong and brave and unable to get beat down.

In the mean time, protect yourself. You wouldn't hesitate to protect
your children from a bully. YOU deserve the same love and protection
you give your children.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Breezy Stevens/ Lady Lasairíona of Crea

Thanks to everyone who responded with all the suggestions and advice!
It's still gonna be darn hard for me to let her go to school again (if
she chooses to do it), but it helps to know that I haven't failed in
some way because she wants to go back. She does seem to enjoy our
day-to-day much more when we are doing structured activities, so I guess
I'll just go with her flow...

On a related note, yesterday we got our Lift the Lid on Mummies kit in
the mail, and she sat down as soon as we got home and did everything in
it. At one point, she stood up and exclaimed, "I LOVE HOMESCHOOLING!
Imagine how boring they would make mummies in school! This is so much
more fun!" I thought that was cool, had to share...

Blessings,
Breezy

Malinda Mills

<<On a related note, yesterday we got our Lift the Lid on Mummies kit in
the mail, and she sat down as soon as we got home and did everything in
it. >>

Isn't that an awesome little kit, Breezy? Tristan loves Egypt (he's always proud to tell people he plans to be an "Archaeologist Egyptologist" <vbg> ), and we got this kit a few days after I pulled him from school.

I found out recently that his old class is learning about Egypt right now. I'm SO glad he isn't there. I'm sure he is probably more knowledgeable about the subject than his former teacher, and I can just envision him trying to correct the teacher while she lectures. LOL

Malinda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Malinda Mills

Ren, thank you for this. I know I wasn't the original poster, but this is such timely advice that I so need to hear right now. These unschooling lists have been invaluable in their guidance and insight!

Malinda

----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen


"A question for you... how do you continue along your path when
friends and family seem to try to derail you at every turn?"

Avoid them.
Seriously, I think part of the healing journey is to surround yourself
with positive people that are spiritually evolved enough to let you BE.
People that are filled with the joy of LIFE and are interesting and
open minded.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]