[email protected]

So...
Teens who aren't in college aside for a moment, it seems that ever fall here
and there the idea comes up of whether homeschoolers should have a
responsibility to represent all homeschoolers in a good light. I know we'll never
decide (among homeschoolers) what that "good light" would be (my kids might "use
language," and they watch R rated movies and they're going to dress up on
Halloween).

So let me change gears and say unschoolers instead. If unschoolers are
getting together somewhere (park, zoo, community center, museum, hotel) what seems
reasonable or unreasonable as to expectations?

Is it my child's responsibility to set a good example?
Is it my responsibility to live a good unschooling life so that others will
see unschooling shining in me? (Yeah, letting the little Baptist kid in my
shine forth for a second. <g>)

Sandra

kayb85

> So let me change gears and say unschoolers instead. If
unschoolers are
> getting together somewhere (park, zoo, community center, museum,
hotel) what seems
> reasonable or unreasonable as to expectations?
>
> Is it my child's responsibility to set a good example?
> Is it my responsibility to live a good unschooling life so that
others will
> see unschooling shining in me? (Yeah, letting the little Baptist
kid in my
> shine forth for a second. <g>)

It's a tough question, because it doesn't seem fair that we should
feel obligated to be "unschooling missionaries" just because we're in
the minority in our educational philosophy. But yet we *are* in the
minority and we *do* care about the philosophy, so I guess yeah, kind
of. I don't think we should break stuff and leave big messes and
blatantly disregard the rules of the places we go. I don't think we
should be rude and disrespectful of others. But then again we
shouldn't do those things anyway even if we don't care about making
an impression for unschooling, so maybe my answer is no. Maybe we
should just be ourselves and let who we are shine. If we try to make
ourselves look more shiny than we really are, then the shine that
others will see isn't real.

And even if we think we're being a good example, others might not
think we are. If we are in Wal-mart with our kids at midnight, are
people going to talk about "those wild unschoolers who have no
bedtimes?" I think at that point, we should not choose to stay home
at midnight and hide because of what others might think.

We were at a fair today and one of the stands had decorative water
fountains for yards. My 5 year old put his hand in the water while
we were looking at them and the guy said, "Ooooh, I wouldn't put my
fingers in there, the water is all dirty". Luke immediately took his
hand out, and a lady the guy was waiting on said looked right at me
and said, "Some people nowadays just don't care about their kids".
UGH! (No, the water wasn't that dirty and the kids have had their
hands in worse just playing outside in the yard). Now that lady
didn't know we are unschoolers, but if she had, should I have worried
that I made a bad impression because I let my 5 year old put his
fingers in "dirty" water? No, I don't think so.

What if our kids do something unusual ordering from a menu? Order
dessert first? Order something and then barely eat it? Will people
look at us and think poorly of us because of that? I don't think we
should care at that point.

If we take an 8 year old to a museum and the guide realizes he can't
read?

I think worrying about making a good impression would just wear us
out, and it could be for nothing. We might see all the joy and peace
and know that we're shining but others might just see the non-reader
and the late bedtime and the fingers in "dirty" water.

Sheila

Robyn Coburn

<<<We were at a fair today and one of the stands had decorative water
fountains for yards. My 5 year old put his hand in the water while
we were looking at them and the guy said, "Ooooh, I wouldn't put my
fingers in there, the water is all dirty". Luke immediately took his
hand out, and a lady the guy was waiting on said looked right at me
and said, "Some people nowadays just don't care about their kids".
UGH! >>>>

I guess she didn't care about leaving the bad impression of someone totally
rude and judgmental!

Probably a high school graduate. ;)

Robyn L. Coburn


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 9/22/2004

Kelly Ferry

I'm finding this thread so interesting, as it is making me look at my
own behavior recently. I can recall 3 different occasions where I told
Tyler (12--in his/our first month of unschooling) that he needed to
set a good example. It just came out of my mouth before I even
realized I was going to say it. My old tapes are really cranking
because of the challenges of our new journey. I am talking as honestly
as I can with him about it, but wow, it just keeps coming.

What attracts me to unschooling so much is the space and freedom made
available for the child to discover his or her truest self--and all of
the aspects of that self, child, sibling, citizen, relative, karate
student, writer, illustrator, historian, bug-lover, rabbit-raiser,
tipi-builder, Yu-gi-oh World Champion (he's really driving for this
one!)

etc..

I think we could put the pressure of being *missionaries to the cause*
on our kids no matter what umbrella we are holding over our heads. I
am trying to learn how to NOT do that, because what I see as a good
example often doesn't fit what is true for my boy in that moment.
Sometimes he needs to go through facing his wants and what they will
do in a situation or to a relationship. Isn't it true that unschooling
supports the idea of finding ones own creatively suitable place in the
world? And doesn't unschooling take a lot of the *shoulds* out of
life?

Yet, I know that I Should (because it's true for me) continue to work
on my old habits and model to Tyler and Lila the freedom I am
suggesting they should have! Rather than talking it up then stomping
them down. I know that if I ignore the Should that keeps rising up in
me, we are all very unhappy, thwarted and resentful.

Ok. I haven't had my morning coffee yet, and I think I'm not making much sense.

I guess what I'm attempting to say is that I think it's each
individual's responsibility to live their life in as true a fashion as
they can, learning to look for the highest good, learning to accept
setbacks gracefully and as teachings instead of as bad things to react
to. This, whether they are unschoolers or traditional schoolers or
Christian or Muslim or Jewish. That's maybe not what a lot of
organized religions suggest, or what they teach in public school.
Sure, the language may be there, but the actions and the sometimes
unspoken expectations driven by rewards and punishments speak so much
more loudly than the words. But Unschooling. Unschooling has both, the
words and the action--the legions of families putting it into action
in their own unique ways. I can only think that has to be good for
society.

Gah. I still feel like I'm sort of dancing around my point and unable
to pin it down. I'm going to revisit this later, once the Java God has
shined down upon my sleep-deprived brain.

Cheers!

Kelly


On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:13:06 EDT, sandradodd@... <sandradodd@...> wrote:
> So...
> Teens who aren't in college aside for a moment, it seems that ever fall here
> and there the idea comes up of whether homeschoolers should have a
> responsibility to represent all homeschoolers in a good light. I know we'll never
> decide (among homeschoolers) what that "good light" would be (my kids might "use
> language," and they watch R rated movies and they're going to dress up on
> Halloween).
>
> So let me change gears and say unschoolers instead. If unschoolers are
> getting together somewhere (park, zoo, community center, museum, hotel) what seems
> reasonable or unreasonable as to expectations?
>
> Is it my child's responsibility to set a good example?
> Is it my responsibility to live a good unschooling life so that others will
> see unschooling shining in me? (Yeah, letting the little Baptist kid in my
> shine forth for a second. <g>)
>
> Sandra
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Kelly Muzyczka

I think we first have to worry about the impression we are making on our
kids. Of course. Then worry about the impression we make on others.

I was just saying the other day that on my very best unschooly mommy days,
I respond really well to "dirty water" situations. I turn to my kids and
firmly and clearly say (for example) "It's ok, honey. That water was put
in there this morning and it's at least as clean as all the dirt and door
handles you've touched today. But if you are worried, then when you are
done playing we can always wash your hands."

Say it so the adult hears how silly they are being without slamming
them. Say it so your kid hears you acknowledging the societal norm and
dismissing it all at once.

My usual one runs something like this: "YOu can run around in here, but
please don't yell, it disturbs other people."


Kelly
I love mankind, it's people I can't stand. --Linus

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/04 11:59:50 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< Now that lady

didn't know we are unschoolers, but if she had, should I have worried

that I made a bad impression because I let my 5 year old put his

fingers in "dirty" water? No, I don't think so. >>

That's part of the consideration for me too. Are we just out in public as
"private citizens," and nobody knows we're homeschoolers or unschoolers?

There are performances for students of some of the shows here in town, and
sometimes there will be homeschoolers' tickets. Basically, they're going as a
schoolgroup. A space is saved, we/they file in and sit as a group, and are
released as a group. That's the most public I've seen. Someone up on stage
excuses different schools in turn so that the kids aren't all mixed up with other
groups, because some of the school groups are pretty young, some have busses
waiting for them, the performance arts building is a big place, etc.

So a group of kids NOT line-trained is released to go in front of many
hundreds of teachers and schoolkids. <g>

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/04 6:23:38 AM, kpacklight@... writes:

<< I'm finding this thread so interesting, as it is making me look at my
own behavior recently. I can recall 3 different occasions where I told
Tyler (12--in his/our first month of unschooling) that he needed to
set a good example. It just came out of my mouth before I even
realized I was going to say it. >>

I believe it's true, though. If people know my kids are unschoolers and they
are too loud, too rude, destructive, the people WILL say "an unschooler did
this."

But if they're somewhere being a representative of their state, that's the
same problem. Or their anime club, or when Marty was on a hockey team and went
out of state.

-=-Isn't it true that unschooling
supports the idea of finding ones own creatively suitable place in the
world? And doesn't unschooling take a lot of the *shoulds* out of
life?-=-

If we take so many shoulds out that our children aren't living in the world
or playing well with others, that WILL make unschooling look bad. (Even to me,
and I'm pretty sold on it.)

My kids do behave well in public. But when I describe our lives and other
people say "I'm going to do that too!" sometimes it seems their results aren't
as good (maybe their kids were rule bound for too long, or maybe the parents
are missing the whole discussion aspect of their lives that we had so solidly
from the beginning), so not only they might have wild kids out in public that
they're not even trying to persuade or corral but they might blame other
unschoolers for telling them that was good and right.

It's not an easy question.

Sandra

Kelly Muzyczka

At 09:24 AM 9/30/2004, you wrote:
>Two women walked out of the shop and saw
>the kids getting sticky and messy and one said to me, "Oh, man, they
>are *sooo* sticky!" I smiled and said, "It's a good thing they're
>washable!" You could practically see the lightbulb appear over her
>head and then she replied, "Yeah! Let them have fun!" That was great
>to hear too.
>
>-Tracy-


I love that! "They're washable!"

I also tend to use "It's a road map of their happy day! See, there is the
candy apple, there is the mud puddle jumping and that is the hot dog
catsup." -giggle-


Kelly
I love mankind, it's people I can't stand. --Linus

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/04 7:29:02 AM, treegoddess@... writes:

<< Last month we went to the local Renaissance Festival and the kids
wanted great big caramel apples that were rolled in candy (M&M's,
etc.). >>

QUITE not Renaissance food at all. (Was this the list where Renaissance
Fairs were defended as good education opportunities? <g>)

That booth wasn't representing Renfairs very well.

Sandra

Anne O

*** From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
Maybe we should just be ourselves and let who we are shine.***

Oh, I SO agree with this.

That's what unschooling is about, anyway. Following our hearts and allowing
ourSelves to Shine. When we immerse ourselves and saturate ourSelves in
those places/areas/with those people around whom we Shine, then naturally we
ARE representing unschoolers in the best possible light.

Be Well ~
Anne

AnneO

I can recall 3 different occasions where I told
> Tyler (12--in his/our first month of unschooling) that he needed to
> set a good example. It just came out of my mouth before I even
> realized I was going to say it. My old tapes are really cranking
> because of the challenges of our new journey. I am talking as
honestly
> as I can with him about it, but wow, it just keeps coming.***

I guess I've just wanted to exemplify to my children being good
*human beings*...because that's what they are.

I know schooled children who are so very sweet and thoughtful and
kind and I know unschooled children who...um...aren't so much. To
represent unschoolers has not been a factor in deciding our behavior
as much as representing our True Selves as human beings who are aware
of other people's needs and desires in life (and at times, *rules*
[written and/or unwritten] in other places that are different from
how we would behave in our free home).

My children have always just been Who They Are...and Jake strives to
be the best *Jake* he can be, and Sam strives to be the best *Sam* he
can be.

Yes, unschooling allows them to fulfill their *best* and Shine better
than other paths...but it's just a factor in Who They Are...

When they are older and no longer *school age* they will be
accountable as human beings...if they determine their behavior and
base their decisions now on the fact that they represent unschoolers,
then what will be the deciding factor when they are no longer
(officially) unschoolers?

It's their Human Spirit that determines Who They Are and What They
Do...being unschoolers is the most glorious *aid* and *benefit* to
that human spirit, but certainly not their entire Spirit.

Be Well ~
Anne

April M

I'm quite familiar with the Michigan Renaissance Festival....my kids
performed there with their drama group two weekends....and it's there to
make money, not be "authentic". But we always have fun and there is lots
there that's 'authentic' and we have fun finding that and finding what's not
and trying to figure out all the different time periods represented there.
There is learning there, just a different kind and always fun. And of
course, then there's the 'learning' that goes on at some of the shows...they
can be rather....educational.... in a bawdy sort of way! *g*

~April
Mom to Kate-18, Lisa-15, Karl-13, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Group, an inclusive group meeting throughout Oakland
County.. http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.org/>
"Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it." ~~ Dennis P.
Kimbro







-----Original Message-----
From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: representing unschoolers
(responsibility)



On Sep 30, 2004, at 9:45 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> [QUITE not Renaissance food at all.]

Yes, I realize that that stand didn't have "authentic" faire, but it
was there and that's what my kids wanted so that's what they got. We
don't eat meat so the big turkey drumstick was not appealing. ;)

-Tracy-



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/04 8:38:39 AM, ohman@... writes:

<< When they are older and no longer *school age* they will be

accountable as human beings...if they determine their behavior and

base their decisions now on the fact that they represent unschoolers,

then what will be the deciding factor when they are no longer

(officially) unschoolers? >>

Good point.

We hardly do anything with groups anymore anyway, and in their everyday
actions my kids are rarely representing anyone but themselves (or SCA kids, or
gamers) and they do it pretty well. But it's not because they're trying to be
good gamers, it's because Kirby is a helpful, sociable guy. And Marty is a
reliable, funny, honest guy.

Maybe it's only in cases where kids' behavior isn't ideal that others would
say "you're representing unschoolers now, so settle down"??

-=-It's their Human Spirit that determines Who They Are and What They

Do...being unschoolers is the most glorious *aid* and *benefit* to

that human spirit, but certainly not their entire Spirit.-=-

Makes a ton of sense.

Sandra

pam sorooshian

On Sep 30, 2004, at 6:20 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> So a group of kids NOT line-trained is released to go in front of many
> hundreds of teachers and schoolkids.

We've gone on other kinds of group outings, too, where the kids were
asked to line up. It is sometimes VERY funny to watch them mill around
- usually their intense conversations don't stop, so they're trying to
follow instructions, but not with their "whole" brains. And they just
can't DO it without working consciously at it! And their idea of a
"line" is very funny, too.

One time we went on a candy factory tour. They wanted the kids to put
on these little white paper hats. So the lined up the kids against a
wall, told them in no uncertain terms to get those hats on and KEEP
them on. The kids did it. But there was a delay while we waited to go
inside and when the tour guide turned back a few minutes later, the
kids had twisted and warped those little white hats into all sorts of
odd shapes. They looked interesting, to say the least. She kept saying,
"Well I guess that's okay," doubtfully, like she was trying to convince
herself <G>.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

pam sorooshian

On Sep 30, 2004, at 7:31 AM, AnneO wrote:

> When they are older and no longer *school age* they will be
> accountable as human beings...if they determine their behavior and
> base their decisions now on the fact that they represent unschoolers,
> then what will be the deciding factor when they are no longer
> (officially) unschoolers?

I have NEVER once said to my kids or even felt in my heart that they
have any responsibility to "represent" unschoolers. But they do feel
that way, to some extent, just because they're smart enough to have
figured out for themselves that people look at them and are curious
about them. Even at our park days, they are somewhat aware that the
parents of younger children are interested in them as "examples" of
older unschoolers (my oldest is almost 20 - NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!).

But I do gently joke with them occasionally about not "scaring" the
parents of the young children. My kids will tend to say just about
anything. Sometimes it seems like they'll say THE thing most likely to
shake the brains of moms of younger children, who don't have teens yet,
and still think that homeschooling is some sort of guarantee of perfect
children who never face "teen issues," etc.

-pam

National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

AnneO

> I have NEVER once said to my kids or even felt in my heart that
they
> have any responsibility to "represent" unschoolers. But they do
feel
> that way, to some extent, just because they're smart enough to have
> figured out for themselves that people look at them and are curious
> about them.***

Yeah...my kids understand that, too...but I still think they wouldn't
know how to *act* to represent unschoolers!! They're just Who They
Are, even if other people are thinking, "Oh...those are the
unschoolers!" I think my kids figure the fact that they don't have
horns growing out of their heads is enough (not to mention the fact
that they're really great kids! ;-)

***(my oldest is almost 20 - NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!).***

Ugh...dealing with the fourteenth birthday in this home...he was just
a baby YESTERDAY!!!

~ Anne

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/04 10:40:00 AM, ohman@... writes:

<< Yeah...my kids understand that, too...but I still think they wouldn't

know how to *act* to represent unschoolers!! They're just Who They

Are, even if other people are thinking, "Oh...those are the

unschoolers!" I think my kids figure the fact that they don't have

horns growing out of their heads is enough (not to mention the fact

that they're really great kids! ;-) >>

Anyone here know the term "PK"?
It doesn't completely apply, but sometimes it does.

"Preacher's Kid."

If someone is a speaker or a conference organizer or publisher or in any
other prominent position, their kids become part of the package, whether anyone
involved likes it or agrees to it or not.

When Baptists talk (probably methodists and others of that ilk) and someone
says "I was a PK" or "He was a wild PK" it has meaning in that context. Wild
PKs are nasty boys or sneaky girls who rebelled against the special
expectations put on them because their dads were ministers.

I've never seen an unschooler rebel that way. I wonder. . .

There used to be someone who came on AOL from time to time and said he had
been unschooled and it was TERRIBLE and no one should do it to their kids. It
was hard to tell (impossible to tell) if he was telling any truth whatsoever,
and IF he was unschooled what his parents were planning and thinking.

I'm just rambling now, but the ramble is still in the vague area of whether
it matters.

Our family is going to southern California in early December. We'll stay
with an unschooling family in Las Vegas on the way. Holly and I stayed there in
June. But this time the family will meet Keith, and Kirby, and Marty. And
they WILL jld look at them to see how unschoolers could be, and would ask them
questions expecting them to say something clever about unschooling. Pressure's
been off somewhat since we stopped organizing meetings a few years back.
Holly goes to park days sometimes. Some families there are unschoolers and some
aren't, and she knows she has been used as a good example by some families
behind her back, and as a bad example by some. There's no getting around that,
really.

Kirby and Marty hang out with a lot of school-attending gamers, and some who
don't go to school. I don't think they're self conscious about it at all,
but they ARE representing homeschooling there in that group whether they mean to
or not.

Sandra

AnneO

***PKs are nasty boys or sneaky girls who rebelled against the
special expectations put on them because their dads were ministers.***


The *PK* (daughter) in the movie *Footloose*! What a REBEL!! :-)

~ Anne

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/2004 1:49:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

If someone is a speaker or a conference organizer or publisher or in any
other prominent position, their kids become part of the package, whether
anyone
involved likes it or agrees to it or not.<<<<

And boy, was I uncomfortable the first two years of the conference when I
was hosting and Cameron didn't even show his face!

He apologized this year---saying that it was so much fun and that he was
sorry he'd "sat out" the first two years.

He knows he's representative. But he's not out to *prove* anything or be an
example----he just *is*. But he's that way all the time anyway, so he's not
being any different.

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nnylnell

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:

If unschoolers are
> getting together somewhere (park, zoo, community center, museum,
hotel) what seems
> reasonable or unreasonable as to expectations?
>
> Is it my child's responsibility to set a good example?
> Is it my responsibility to live a good unschooling life so that
others will
> see unschooling shining in me? (Yeah, letting the little Baptist
kid in my
> shine forth for a second. <g>)

I sent my kid to school because of the extremely negative experiences
I had with the unschoolers in my area. This was after six years of
being a total unschooling groupie, John Holt fanatic, being positive I
would NEVER sent my kid to school.

But when I got acquainted with actual unschoolers . . . well, let's
just say that the ones in my area, those I know, anyway, are nothing
like the ones on this list. They seem to be unschooling more for
political/social reasons than as a way to get close to or nurture
their kids. They are very controlling about TV, computers, food, guns,
etc. They talk very stridently about how terrible the larger culture
is and how they are protecting their kids by not sending them to
school . . . a lot, imho, like fundie school-at-homers do. A lot of
the kids seem to be genuinely neglected by parents who are more or
less just doing their thing (raising goats or protesting wars, not
that there's anything inherently wrong with either of those
activities) and expecting the kids to join in and making them feel
guilty if they'd rather be playing video games with their friends or
something. Some of the kids have asked repeatedly to go to school and
their parents guilt trip them over that too but make no attempt to
make their lives at home more pleasant -- sometimes they live way out
in the country, nowhere near friends, and really are suffering from
lack of social contact. A lot of the kids are HORRIBLY behaved, not
just "free spirits" but rude, destructive, violent -- basically, imo,
expressing a deep-seated discomfort and unhappiness with their lives.

Of course, the school-at-homers were even worse than the unschoolers.
When I looked around to see who did have the best relationship with
their kids, which kids seemed happiest and nicest and most comfortable
with their lives, which parents seemed most in tune with their kids
and most concerned to do what actually made them happy, it was the
"relaxed" or "eclectic" homeschoolers -- and the attached-parenting
people who sent their kids to school. Most of the relaxed
homeschoolers had sent their kids to school originally and had brought
them home when they were unhappy and were spending a lot of their time
thinking up fun stuff for them to do, not pressuring them to do what
they didn't want, having academic goals in mind but accomplishing them
in the most gentle, family-friendly way possible. The parents whose
kids were still in school had kids who just liked school, adjusted to
it well, and were perfectly happy, so they saw no reason to bring them
home. I'm talking about a select group of school parents here, of
course. They weren't obsessed with grades or achievement, parented
gently and did lots of family stuff outside of school, intervened with
the school when there were problems.

So I took a deep breath and sent my son to school. He loved it. The
kids in his class were great. He made tons of friends. His teacher was
gentle and creative and they did all kinds of fun stuff. I had no regrets.

Two years later, things weren't going so well . . . I had to pull him.
I tried some relaxed-homeschooly stuff but he was very resistant. I
decided to check out unschooling again and found this list . . . I am
so glad I did. It finally got through to me that I can parent the way
I want -- very attuned -- and unschool. I honestly had never seen that
combination before. I wish I'd been confident enough to make it up for
myself <g>.

Now I feel like I should look around my area again for some
unschoolers who are more on my wavelength -- maybe I just fell in with
the wrong group before? Everyone else here seems to rave about how
much more comfortable they are with unschoolers than with even the
most liberal school parents and that just hasn't been my experience --
I tend to be seen as a pariah by the unschoolers around here because I
have cable TV and plastic toys! Has anyone else had this experience?

Lynn

[email protected]

-=-I tend to be seen as a pariah by the unschoolers around here because I
have cable TV and plastic toys! Has anyone else had this experience?-=-

I went to one conference where people seemed to be that way. Just too much
"new-ager-than-thou" for me!!

And some of those beliefs seem even more unfounded than Bible literalism is.

Here's something I just posted at unschooling.com that touches on why I
unschool:



By Sandra Dodd (Sandradodd) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 04:12 pm:
-=-I have read some books discussing the ways TV alters brain
waves. Has anyone else read "The Plug In Drug"?
-=-

I read it and thought it was nonsense, honestly.

If flicker effect and radiation and passivity are serious dangers, jump up
and run away from this computer you're looking at! Kids don't sit this close to
the TV or stare so closely.

When automobiles were first invented there was professional opinion that
humans couldn't survive going that fast. Pressure on their faces or some such.
Gosh, they were wrong. And automobiles, trains and planes are necessary for
getting around the world unless one wants to have a horse or bicycle and never
leave the neighborhood.

My children will be in a world with video after I'm dead, and I can't change
the world. That iS part of our world, and living artificially separate from th
e culture and from technology might be the reason some people homeschool, but
I WANT my children to live in the world as whole people, not protected or
stunted people.

If a child didn't have books at home he might be seriously fascinated by them
elsewhere. If a child never heard music and heard it elsewhere, it might be
seriously more interesting than his mom while he was first listening. The
answer wouldn't be to stop taking him where books or music were.

Sandra
===============================
The last was in reference to someone's evidence that TV was bad for her child
because he (who didn't have TV at home) would become mesmerized when he was
where a TV was.
I think that just shows he was interested in it and thought it was wonderful.
I've been mesmerized by things. Last week it was the instruction manual for
my new rice machine. When I started reading it, my husband was telling my
daughter stories I had already heard, and I tuned them out. In a bit I heard,
"She's not even listening to us." No, I wasn't. Not at all. I really cared
about those instructions and pointers and at that moment if they wanted my
attention, they should have said my name (which they didn't) and waited until I
was looking at them.
Does that mean rice cookers are bad for me? Does it mean I have ADHD?
(I don't think so.)

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

Oh - "new-ager-than-thou" is my new favorite coined phrase - may I steal it
wantonly?



Sondra





-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: representing unschoolers
(responsibility)



-=-I tend to be seen as a pariah by the unschoolers around here because I
have cable TV and plastic toys! Has anyone else had this experience?-=-

I went to one conference where people seemed to be that way. Just too much
"new-ager-than-thou" for me!!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/2004 3:50:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
sondracarr@... writes:
Oh - "new-ager-than-thou" is my new favorite coined phrase - may I steal it
wantonly?
Take it away!

I was talking to Kirby in the car one day about a high-schooled friend of his
who is quite posturish and trendy and dramatic. I said, "Eric is just so
'gother-than-thou.'"

Kirby said there was a card game called "Gother than Thou," which I thought
was great. We went and got a copy of the game. <g>

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laura Johnson

---I tend to be seen as a pariah by the unschoolers around here because I
have cable TV and plastic toys! Has anyone else had this experience?

Yes, I find that there are those that are unschoolers in the sense that they don't use a curriculum, but are not in the sense of what is discussed here. They have lots of food restrictions, limited media exposure (disney is evil tv is evil, coorporate monsters that will make your child materialistic, unimaginative and violent) and rots your brain, waldorfy toys, no plastic toys, earthy crunchy sorts that we have more in common with than mainstream folks, but still different. Organic foods only, no sugar or hydrogenated whatever. (don't eat the baked goods). Just kidding, some is fine. But, very restrictive in my opinion. Probably the same as you experienced. Kind of waldorfish. Their kids knit which is neat. We go to a science class in the park that has a great mix. The class is this guy that brings neat animals and talks to the kids about nature.
Mostly, earthy crunchy attachment parenting types. So, for the most part we fit in great. But, I do feel a little judged when I bring a pepsi or fast food for lunch.
Laura J







"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nichole Fausey-Khosraviani

I get a lot of new folks who are so afraid of unschooling because their knowledge of it came from a homeschooling friend who was not an unschooler, easy going moms afraid that if they get Johnny a science kit that they are not unschooling. What a waste. In time, many of them realize this is ridiculous and climb aboard the unschooling boat. The power of face to face interactions between unschooling families cannot be understated.


Nichole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/2004 5:46:23 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
lauraj2@... writes:
Yes, I find that there are those that are unschoolers in the sense that they
don't use a curriculum, but are not in the sense of what is discussed here.
---------

Well then, they're unschoolers in the only way most people think counts.
They are homeschoolers who don't use a curriculum.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie

*** And doesn't unschooling take a lot of the *shoulds* out of life?****

I realized a couple of months ago that if I think to myself "I should do
this today..." It becomes so much harder for me to do it. Saying I should
makes it an once a 'have to' and a chore and a part of me resists it. So now
I make a list of 'coulds' every few days. A list of possibilities.

I could help the kids to make a kite.
I could give each child a big smile and a hug when they wake up.
I could do the dishes and clean the bathroom.
I could see if the kids want to play Monopoly.

Suddenly my whole perspective changes and life becomes a place of 'all that
I can do to make that place better for me and my family.

Choice. Seeing that every day is full of it. It's empowering. I posted the
affirmation 'I choose this moment to be patient with others' above my
workbench in the kitchen and it is a wonderful reminder that life isn't to
be lived with a sense of obligation, the killer of all things joyful and
spontaneous.

Julie

julie w

Laura Johnson wrote:

> But, I do feel a little judged when I bring a pepsi or fast food for
> lunch.
> Laura J

~snort~
There is one gal in our group who always brings Coke to the pot-lucks
'cause she knows how much I enjoy it and knows that there will be lots
of apple juice, but not much sugary carbonated beverages for me.
;-)

Julie W in AR

Nisha

I think my favorite part of any ren faire I've ever been to is the
last chance forever birds of prey show at Scarborough faire in Texas.
Last Chance Forever is a rehabilitation group for birds of prey and
other raptors like buzzards that is based in San ANtonio. They never
have the same birds two years in a row because they "train" them so
they can do things they need to do in the wild and then they release
them.
They do a few shows around the country every year, and those shows
are how they make most of their money for their organization. The
show is quite impressive, and very educational.I certianly learned
more than I knew there was to learn about the birds that day I was
there. And how many chances to you get to see a golden eagle up close
enough to touch? (Not that it would be a good idea to try to touch
them. LOL)
http://www.lastchanceforever.org/ is their website.
WOrth checking out.
nisha

--- In [email protected], "April M"
<abmorris23@c...> wrote:
But we always have fun and there is lots
> there that's 'authentic' and we have fun finding that and finding
what's not and trying to figure out all the different time periods
represented there.
> There is learning there, just a different kind and always fun.

Nisha

--- In [email protected], "Nichole Fausey-
Khosraviani" <ms_fausey@y...> wrote:
> easy going moms afraid that if they get Johnny a science kit that
they are not unschooling.

I got blasted on an unschooling list once because my daughter(3 yo)
likes worksheets. It's not like I'm sitting there making her do them,
she asks me to buy them. She thinks they are fun. My son (6)wouldn't
volunteer to do one unless he was really, really, really bored, but
my daughter just adores them. She doesn't always do them the way the
instructions say they should be done, but that's okay, she's just
doing things her way, having fun and happens to learn some sounds of
letters along the way. Sometimes she'll ask me to read the pages with
her, and we do, but most of the time, she'll pick one and do it her
way. :) I think we are still unschooling. But because I've bought
worksheets, there are people who would say we aren't.
Nisha