teens (was Re: Can electronic media become addictive in children?)
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/04 6:56:25 AM, julie@... writes:
<< Btw, Sandra, my son is nearly 18 and he has hair as long as Kirby's (we
were so surprised!) >>
Kirby cut his. We don't have a newer family portrait. Darn.
<<. . .and has finally found a place to play Magic every week. Last night, he
finally met some
D&D friends through his new job at Starbucks. Your encouragement and example
were
inspirational to me and eventually helpful to my son. Thanks for posting that
great piece
about how Kirby's future looks to him.>>
Thanks. You're welcome.
I hope Kirby doesn't become a complete bum, or if he does I hope he's the
only one of all the unschoolers who does. <g>
Kirby goes to karate Mondays and Tuesdays these days. Monday is an adult
class, long and arduous. Tuesday he teaches a beginning class at 4:00, takes
the advanced kid-class at 5:00, and then is in an adult weapons class for two
hours (and it sometimes goes past 8:00).
Last week he missed the Monday class to go out to dinner with friends. While
he was gone, Keith told me he had said "sick" to BOTH nights the week before
(I had been in Chicago). So Tuesday I asked him if he was going, and he said
yes, but he wasn't into it and wanted to take a break from it for a while.
ME, the mom, invested in wanting to say "my son has a black belt in karate"
wanted to say something about that, but I kept quiet about it. (He has a brown
belt.) I lightly reminded him of the cost, but acknolwedged it was his money
this time (tax return was put toward that).
He said he was going to talk to his sensei and not stay for the later classes
after he taught. I talked to Keith (his dad) about it and said I didn't want
to press him because then it would be about me, and if he went he would feel
he had lost a battle of wills with me. Keith totally agreed. I was wishing I
had said even less than I had.
We had a singing practice here and I didn't think about him for hours.
He came bounding up the stairs about 9:00, all energized, and said he had de
cided NOT to quit. He had stayed until the extra-long weapons session had
ended. I asked whether it was just that he had a good time. He said, "There
were about 12 of my students there, and I saw them, and I just..." and he acted
out going all soft and mushy.
So he was unwilling to abandon his fan club, basically. Those younger kids
really like him, and he remembers being young there and going in large part
just because of older kids who ran the drills. All of those three he used to
love to impress and hang out with quit the dojo for high school considerations
(sports or academics) before they were 18 (one at 17, two at 15). He was sad
every time.
Yesterday he made other plans instead of the adult class.
Today he's definitely planning to go for the whole time.
Without working out in a more spread-out fashion (for years he went Tuesdays
and Thursdays), that is a very long four hours. But he knows that.
If I had nagged and shamed him, he couldn't have joyfully decided to keep
going. And he probably will NOT go forever. But I want him to go because he
wants to and quit when he wants to, without being a factor if possible.
Sunday he ditched work. He called in sick (which he only slightly was) and
then went to hang around with friends. I squawked a little about it when he
told us what the deal was. Sunday is NOT his regular work day, though, and he
was in as backup on the regular Sunday guy so it wasn't a very big deal. It was
small, but he got a call and they needed something, so I had to be honest
that he wasn't home, and I did track him down and he called them within five
minutes, and he wasn't in trouble. But I was cranky/bitchy-mom when I had called
him, and later when he was home I apologized. I told him that when I was his
age I was ditching classes to hang around with friends and I totally
understood how he felt.
What I thought and didn't say was that when I was his age I was doing MUCH
worse and more dangerous things and was in places where my mom couldn't possibly
have tracked me down, and when I did have a job it was some pissant little
on-campus student job.
None of that was said. But I knew inside me that he has now ditched work
ONCE (one time, count it) in four years and two months of holding the same job, a
real job with keys and security system and cash register. Not dipping oat
meal in the cafeteria or filing cardfor the bursar. Not just ONCE saying
Z "sick" about teaching a karate class he's not paid for teaching.
His life is more real than mine. He's more responsible than I was.
Still, the momly urge is for me to rattle on about responsibility and
what-ifs, and I feel good when I can control that urge.
Sandra
<< Btw, Sandra, my son is nearly 18 and he has hair as long as Kirby's (we
were so surprised!) >>
Kirby cut his. We don't have a newer family portrait. Darn.
<<. . .and has finally found a place to play Magic every week. Last night, he
finally met some
D&D friends through his new job at Starbucks. Your encouragement and example
were
inspirational to me and eventually helpful to my son. Thanks for posting that
great piece
about how Kirby's future looks to him.>>
Thanks. You're welcome.
I hope Kirby doesn't become a complete bum, or if he does I hope he's the
only one of all the unschoolers who does. <g>
Kirby goes to karate Mondays and Tuesdays these days. Monday is an adult
class, long and arduous. Tuesday he teaches a beginning class at 4:00, takes
the advanced kid-class at 5:00, and then is in an adult weapons class for two
hours (and it sometimes goes past 8:00).
Last week he missed the Monday class to go out to dinner with friends. While
he was gone, Keith told me he had said "sick" to BOTH nights the week before
(I had been in Chicago). So Tuesday I asked him if he was going, and he said
yes, but he wasn't into it and wanted to take a break from it for a while.
ME, the mom, invested in wanting to say "my son has a black belt in karate"
wanted to say something about that, but I kept quiet about it. (He has a brown
belt.) I lightly reminded him of the cost, but acknolwedged it was his money
this time (tax return was put toward that).
He said he was going to talk to his sensei and not stay for the later classes
after he taught. I talked to Keith (his dad) about it and said I didn't want
to press him because then it would be about me, and if he went he would feel
he had lost a battle of wills with me. Keith totally agreed. I was wishing I
had said even less than I had.
We had a singing practice here and I didn't think about him for hours.
He came bounding up the stairs about 9:00, all energized, and said he had de
cided NOT to quit. He had stayed until the extra-long weapons session had
ended. I asked whether it was just that he had a good time. He said, "There
were about 12 of my students there, and I saw them, and I just..." and he acted
out going all soft and mushy.
So he was unwilling to abandon his fan club, basically. Those younger kids
really like him, and he remembers being young there and going in large part
just because of older kids who ran the drills. All of those three he used to
love to impress and hang out with quit the dojo for high school considerations
(sports or academics) before they were 18 (one at 17, two at 15). He was sad
every time.
Yesterday he made other plans instead of the adult class.
Today he's definitely planning to go for the whole time.
Without working out in a more spread-out fashion (for years he went Tuesdays
and Thursdays), that is a very long four hours. But he knows that.
If I had nagged and shamed him, he couldn't have joyfully decided to keep
going. And he probably will NOT go forever. But I want him to go because he
wants to and quit when he wants to, without being a factor if possible.
Sunday he ditched work. He called in sick (which he only slightly was) and
then went to hang around with friends. I squawked a little about it when he
told us what the deal was. Sunday is NOT his regular work day, though, and he
was in as backup on the regular Sunday guy so it wasn't a very big deal. It was
small, but he got a call and they needed something, so I had to be honest
that he wasn't home, and I did track him down and he called them within five
minutes, and he wasn't in trouble. But I was cranky/bitchy-mom when I had called
him, and later when he was home I apologized. I told him that when I was his
age I was ditching classes to hang around with friends and I totally
understood how he felt.
What I thought and didn't say was that when I was his age I was doing MUCH
worse and more dangerous things and was in places where my mom couldn't possibly
have tracked me down, and when I did have a job it was some pissant little
on-campus student job.
None of that was said. But I knew inside me that he has now ditched work
ONCE (one time, count it) in four years and two months of holding the same job, a
real job with keys and security system and cash register. Not dipping oat
meal in the cafeteria or filing cardfor the bursar. Not just ONCE saying
Z "sick" about teaching a karate class he's not paid for teaching.
His life is more real than mine. He's more responsible than I was.
Still, the momly urge is for me to rattle on about responsibility and
what-ifs, and I feel good when I can control that urge.
Sandra
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
I know I sometimes feel pressure (especially with the oldest) to tell people how "well" my
son is turning out as some kind of validation for our choices. What cracks me up is that
kids who drop out of high school or decide not to go to college after public school are just
considered "not motivated." No one questions the kind of schooling that may have led to
those choices.
Now there is a catch phrase to use as a measurement *before* we open our mouths!
What have I had an investment in wanting to say about my kids?
College always figured prominently as the key to "proving" that homeschooling/
unschooling worked.
I've had to let that go with the first child for the time being.
interest to continue past their inertia to succeed.
But what I realized is that when we exert pressure, we are doing a couple things I don't
want to do:
1. I am telling my child that he doesn't have what it takes to commit on his own - he is
dependent on *outside* pressure and expectations, not on his own resolve and initiative.
2. I am telling my child that his choices don't impact his life. I am saying that my ideas of
how he ought to live will override his laziness or boredom or loss of interest. This
reinforces the idea that his choices aren't real - aren't his responsibility.
But I was cranky/bitchy-mom when I had called
back-ended a car five minutes from home. It was expensive and inconvenient for me. But I
had to stop short. I had been in five car accidents by age 20 and never paid a penny for
the repairs. This is a kid who handled the situation beautifully before I got there and is
working to repay us.
Julie B
>I'm so glad you shared this feeling! It made me laugh.
> Thanks. You're welcome.
> I hope Kirby doesn't become a complete bum, or if he does I hope he's the
> only one of all the unschoolers who does. <g>
I know I sometimes feel pressure (especially with the oldest) to tell people how "well" my
son is turning out as some kind of validation for our choices. What cracks me up is that
kids who drop out of high school or decide not to go to college after public school are just
considered "not motivated." No one questions the kind of schooling that may have led to
those choices.
>"invested in wanting to say"
> ME, the mom, invested in wanting to say "my son has a black belt in karate"
> wanted to say something about that, but I kept quiet about it. (He has a brown
> belt.) I lightly reminded him of the cost, but acknolwedged it was his money
> this time (tax return was put toward that).
Now there is a catch phrase to use as a measurement *before* we open our mouths!
What have I had an investment in wanting to say about my kids?
College always figured prominently as the key to "proving" that homeschooling/
unschooling worked.
I've had to let that go with the first child for the time being.
>This is how I see it. Some people say that parental pressure often helps kids with flagging
> If I had nagged and shamed him, he couldn't have joyfully decided to keep
> going. And he probably will NOT go forever. But I want him to go because he
> wants to and quit when he wants to, without being a factor if possible.
interest to continue past their inertia to succeed.
But what I realized is that when we exert pressure, we are doing a couple things I don't
want to do:
1. I am telling my child that he doesn't have what it takes to commit on his own - he is
dependent on *outside* pressure and expectations, not on his own resolve and initiative.
2. I am telling my child that his choices don't impact his life. I am saying that my ideas of
how he ought to live will override his laziness or boredom or loss of interest. This
reinforces the idea that his choices aren't real - aren't his responsibility.
But I was cranky/bitchy-mom when I had called
> him, and later when he was home I apologized. I told him that when I was hisI had something similar happen with a small car accident. I was really annoyed that he
> age I was ditching classes to hang around with friends and I totally
> understood how he felt.
back-ended a car five minutes from home. It was expensive and inconvenient for me. But I
had to stop short. I had been in five car accidents by age 20 and never paid a penny for
the repairs. This is a kid who handled the situation beautifully before I got there and is
working to repay us.
>I love how you put this. I agree on our end too.
> His life is more real than mine. He's more responsible than I was.
Julie B
Penne & Buddies
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
of which, whatever happened with Julie in MO?) He was speculating
on how they could use the fact that we have a homeschooled eighteen
year old here with no tangible "five-year plan" for the future.
She's never been in the System, so it hasn't been an influence on
her as it was for our oldest son. I reminded DH that we can't live
our life in fear of not meeting others' arbitrary standards and he
agreed, but Nike also worries about what the neighbors will think of
us, and that just adds to the pressure she's already putting on
herself.
Nicole has so many interests, but doesn't want to commit to a paying
job (or several) and end up not sticking to it like her big
brother. I told her that one of my most interesting jobs after
college was a stint as a temporary Kelly Girl. I loved meeting new
people and doing different things each week, although I really
aspired to be on Broadway and had no idea how to go about it (I'd
been informed in college that I didn't have what it takes.)
My DD doesn't want to be stuck indoors all day, but none of the
volunteer opportunities around here appeal to her, either. Nike did
get excited about art school in Canada, but now she's having second
thoughts about that. It's very frustrating for her, especially now
that she's eighteen (and a half,) but I told her that when it gets
to that point -- there's usually some sort of big
breakthrough 'round the corner. Just when you think the pregnancy
has gotten ridiculously laborious, the baby arrives (mommie
metaphors 'r' us -- nine kids'll do that to ya' :o)
Until later, Amigas ~
<julie@b...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a...wrote:
> >he's the
> > Thanks. You're welcome.
> > I hope Kirby doesn't become a complete bum, or if he does I hope
> > only one of all the unschoolers who does. <g>tell people how "well" my
>
> I'm so glad you shared this feeling! It made me laugh.
>
> I know I sometimes feel pressure (especially with the oldest) to
> son is turning out as some kind of validation for our choices.What cracks me up is that
> kids who drop out of high school or decide not to go to collegeafter public school are just
> considered "not motivated." No one questions the kind of schoolingthat may have led to
> those choices.My husband threw that out in regard to CPS the other day (speaking
of which, whatever happened with Julie in MO?) He was speculating
on how they could use the fact that we have a homeschooled eighteen
year old here with no tangible "five-year plan" for the future.
She's never been in the System, so it hasn't been an influence on
her as it was for our oldest son. I reminded DH that we can't live
our life in fear of not meeting others' arbitrary standards and he
agreed, but Nike also worries about what the neighbors will think of
us, and that just adds to the pressure she's already putting on
herself.
Nicole has so many interests, but doesn't want to commit to a paying
job (or several) and end up not sticking to it like her big
brother. I told her that one of my most interesting jobs after
college was a stint as a temporary Kelly Girl. I loved meeting new
people and doing different things each week, although I really
aspired to be on Broadway and had no idea how to go about it (I'd
been informed in college that I didn't have what it takes.)
My DD doesn't want to be stuck indoors all day, but none of the
volunteer opportunities around here appeal to her, either. Nike did
get excited about art school in Canada, but now she's having second
thoughts about that. It's very frustrating for her, especially now
that she's eighteen (and a half,) but I told her that when it gets
to that point -- there's usually some sort of big
breakthrough 'round the corner. Just when you think the pregnancy
has gotten ridiculously laborious, the baby arrives (mommie
metaphors 'r' us -- nine kids'll do that to ya' :o)
Until later, Amigas ~
Elizabeth Hill
**He was speculating
on how they could use the fact that we have a homeschooled eighteen
year old here with no tangible "five-year plan" for the future. **
I can't see any sense fretting about this. How can Child Protective
Services swoop in based on how you are raising a daughter who is legally
an adult?
Am I missing the point completely?
Betsy
on how they could use the fact that we have a homeschooled eighteen
year old here with no tangible "five-year plan" for the future. **
I can't see any sense fretting about this. How can Child Protective
Services swoop in based on how you are raising a daughter who is legally
an adult?
Am I missing the point completely?
Betsy
Penne & Buddies
--- In [email protected], Elizabeth Hill
<ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
siblings here at home... and we already know from personal
experience just how fast & furious CPS can swoop down on an innocent
family. These folks are known to twist everything around to suit
their purpo$e -- left a couple of links to MassOutrage and AFRA in
our previous posts, for those who missed it.
The saddest part about our close encounter with this agency is that
I could hardly wait for each & every one of them to be legally free
from the vulture called Big Brother. Two down, seven to go... but
then the terrorists started a war and the powers that be started
talking about reinstating the draft. Catch 22! If it weren't for my
faith in Christian Science, I would probably be an absolute basket
case, but it has provided a haven of hope amidst the seeming despair.
I know we'll be alright -- it's the old doubts that creep up on us
unexpectedly, especially when we round another corner of family
life, that we have to constantly keep in check for everyone's peace
of mind.
Vayan con Dios, Amigos ~
Penne & the Crew
http://connections.ardfamilyco-op.net/pdacard1.jpg
<ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
> **He was speculatingProtective
> on how they could use the fact that we have a homeschooled eighteen
> year old here with no tangible "five-year plan" for the future. **
>
> I can't see any sense fretting about this. How can Child
> Services swoop in based on how you are raising a daughter who islegally
> an adult?Sorry 'bout that, I should have clarified that she has seven younger
>
> Am I missing the point completely?
>
> Betsy
siblings here at home... and we already know from personal
experience just how fast & furious CPS can swoop down on an innocent
family. These folks are known to twist everything around to suit
their purpo$e -- left a couple of links to MassOutrage and AFRA in
our previous posts, for those who missed it.
The saddest part about our close encounter with this agency is that
I could hardly wait for each & every one of them to be legally free
from the vulture called Big Brother. Two down, seven to go... but
then the terrorists started a war and the powers that be started
talking about reinstating the draft. Catch 22! If it weren't for my
faith in Christian Science, I would probably be an absolute basket
case, but it has provided a haven of hope amidst the seeming despair.
I know we'll be alright -- it's the old doubts that creep up on us
unexpectedly, especially when we round another corner of family
life, that we have to constantly keep in check for everyone's peace
of mind.
Vayan con Dios, Amigos ~
Penne & the Crew
http://connections.ardfamilyco-op.net/pdacard1.jpg
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/04 8:44:05 AM, julie@... writes:
<< What cracks me up is that
kids who drop out of high school or decide not to go to college after public
school are just
considered "not motivated." >>
Or those who graduate "well" and go straight to college and get bad grades
are still considered some kind of successes, even if they're there against their
will.
"He's at the university" sounds good. He might be stuck with very bad
influences, only be 17 of 18, homesick, hating his classes and wishing like crazy he
could be home, but he'll keep most of that to himself for the sake of bucking
up, and the parents will maintain their bragging rights.
I went to college with lots of kids like that. I was young 17 when I went
(July 24 birthday, and turned the summer before I was a sophomore). There were
kids there who were 19, 20, homesick for families 2000 miles away. So they
just played their music louder and drank and used drugs and acted smart (and
stupid).
Sandra
<< What cracks me up is that
kids who drop out of high school or decide not to go to college after public
school are just
considered "not motivated." >>
Or those who graduate "well" and go straight to college and get bad grades
are still considered some kind of successes, even if they're there against their
will.
"He's at the university" sounds good. He might be stuck with very bad
influences, only be 17 of 18, homesick, hating his classes and wishing like crazy he
could be home, but he'll keep most of that to himself for the sake of bucking
up, and the parents will maintain their bragging rights.
I went to college with lots of kids like that. I was young 17 when I went
(July 24 birthday, and turned the summer before I was a sophomore). There were
kids there who were 19, 20, homesick for families 2000 miles away. So they
just played their music louder and drank and used drugs and acted smart (and
stupid).
Sandra