Liz Grimes

> Patti wrote: Principles work great within our family because of the
> kind of relationship we have with each other, but when our house is
> full of other people's children I have no problem having "rules" for
> those children,>

Danielle Wrote:
> I think the biggest issue is that most kids are so rule-bound that they
have a very hard time operating outside rules without "going crazy.">

I am relatively new to the list--having been lurking for sometime but just
have to jump into this. I have one son left at home out of 6 children.
This was my 40th birthday surprise child. He still sleeps in our room at
age 9 1/2, he nursed only to 14 month--broke my heart when he self weaned,
he toilet trained himself just past his second birthday, has never been in
public school. Since our other children were adopted as toddlers & older, I
was not able to do the strong attachment type parenting of them I wanted to.
Also due to their multiple special needs they often required more
therapeutic parenting.

Now, to my situation--we are licensed therapeutic foster parents. Our
current placement is a 13 year old boy with borderline mental retardation as
well as several mental illness diagnosis, he must be in public school. If I
allow him some of the freedom of choices that I would like to give, he does
not know what to do. An example--food: my 9 year old will only eat when he
is hungry and usually makes pretty wise choices about what to eat, balancing
his diet over the course of several days. However, the 13 year old will eat
regardless of hunger and he craves sweets and carbohydrates of all kinds.
Since he is only 5'4" and already weighs nearly 200 lbs and one of the goals
of his treatment plan is to learn healthy eating habits, I can not give him
control of his diet. I am giving him guidance thru only having healthy
options for snacks, making meals attractive and healthy, but I still must
say no when he asks for 3rd or 4th servings or wants a snack immediately
prior to a meal. TV and games systems are very much the same deal--the 9
year old will veg out for several hours occassionally--the 13 year old does
not know any other way to entertain himself, he has no other interests.
Therefore, I limit his time in front of a screen and insist that he go
outside to play. We will only have this child for a few more months before
he returns home where he will be very rule bound--I've watched his mother in
action with him and don't see a lot of changes in that area. Okay, there
really is a question here--how can I incorporate the same style of parenting
with this child and still give his the strong guidance that he needs to
learn how to make good choices? I think that this will take more time than
we have with him--that the best I can hope for is to be able to show him a
better way to live and help him learn to make the best choices out of what
he has available. It does create some conflict when he sees that we do
treat the 9 year old differently, but remind him that fair does not always
mean equal--that each child is different and has different needs therefore
will be treated differently. Having rules for one child and a more
principle led life for the other is difficult--not saying that we aren't
principle driven for the other child, it's just that he is not principle
driven he is rule driven. Has anyone else had experience in this?

Thanks.

Peace,
Liz G.

averyschmidt

> It does create some conflict when he sees that we do
> treat the 9 year old differently, but remind him that fair does
not always
> mean equal--that each child is different and has different needs
therefore
> will be treated differently.

I don't have experience with anyone actually moving in with us, only
with friends and neighbors who spend a lot of time here which is
different, obviously. But it sounds to me like you're handling the
situation as best you can under the circumstances.
If you were going to be adopting him I'd say heavy duty de-coercing
and unschooling would be the best plan, but that wouldn't be fair to
him to get used to that and then have to go back to his rule-bound
household in such a short time (plus a couple of months probably
isn't even long enough *to* de-coerce/deschool anyway).
I'm curious why he can be with his own mother in a few months but
not right now...

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/26/04 9:01:58 PM, lgrimes@... writes:

<< Okay, there

really is a question here--how can I incorporate the same style of parenting

with this child and still give his the strong guidance that he needs to

learn how to make good choices? I think that this will take more time than

we have with him--that the best I can hope for is to be able to show him a

better way to live and help him learn to make the best choices out of what

he has available. >>

Give him limited choices.
Give him a choice of two things, like you might with a really young child.

That's my suggestion.
I learned it from a psychiatrist in the mid 70's when I was guardian (with my
first husband) of his brother and sister, whose parents had died separately
but within just a couple of years. The boy was ten and almost paralyzed with
the inability to make decisions. So we would ask him which of two things he
wanted, and he worked into decision making that way.

-=-Having rules for one child and a more

principle led life for the other is difficult--not saying that we aren't

principle driven for the other child, it's just that he is not principle

driven he is rule driven. Has anyone else had experience in this?-=-

That would be really difficult for foster kids, to be where they're not
treated truly like a member of the family, I think. I hope you help your son
exercise his freedoms out of the other boy's line of sight as much as possible.

Sandra

Liz Grimes

> If you were going to be adopting him I'd say heavy duty de-coercing
> and unschooling would be the best plan, but that wouldn't be fair to
> him to get used to that and then have to go back to his rule-bound
> household in such a short time (plus a couple of months probably
> isn't even long enough *to* de-coerce/deschool anyway).
> I'm curious why he can be with his own mother in a few months but
> not right now...

If we could adopt, or even do long term foster care/guardianship, I would be
willing to make the changes. He is in our care while working on family
issues that made it unsafe for him to remain at home. Those issues are
being addressed and it should be safe for him to return home in the few
months.


<That would be really difficult for foster kids, to be where they're not
treated truly like a member of the family, I think. I hope you help your
son
exercise his freedoms out of the other boy's line of sight as much as
possible>

We try very hard to treat him as if he has always been here and will always
be here. We are giving as much freedom as he can handle, but that just does
not seem to be as much as the younger child can handle. He is never
referred to as our foster child in his presence--he is the newest addition
to our family. Since our first 5 children were adopted as slightly older
children most of our friends understand our committment to kids and their
needs and know that we are likely to have additional family members at any
given time. I have hoped that allowing the younger to excercise his
freedoms and make his own choices would be the role model for the 13 year
old (who developmentally is much younger than the 9 yo). Right now it is
feeling as if every time I give the older child the freedom to make his
choices he sabatoges it--it is as if this scares the bejeebbies out of him.
Even though we are very experienced parents/foster parents, this is the
first time that I have blended parenting--previous experience was while
waiting to adopt.

Thanks for letting me sound off and giving me additonal things to think
about.

Peace,
liz