Julie Anderson

Ok.. so today a DFS person and another lady from the county sheriffs
office came to my door.. I was tempted to let the dogs bark longer ..
but eventually I did go to the door. They identified themselves and
asked to come inside and ask a few questions.. I said that the picnic
table would be fine. They both got out their clipboards and began with
the questions..They told me that I had been 'hot-lined'. for
educational neglect.. wanted to know the names, ages, of my kids and
what curriculum I used... how long I had been homeschooling..I told them
that we were homeschoolers and that should be enough.. that legally in
MO.. that is all DFS needs to know. I'm hoping I didn't say too much..
they appeared to be friendly... wanted to look at my horses.. asked
questions about the farm and all.. wanted to just 'see' my kids.. asked
if they could just come to the window.. I was so afraid.. shaking like a
leaf by the time they finally left.. still shaking.. as I remember and
type this... I asked them if this would be the end of it.. and the lady
said.. probably not. So that is a simiplified version of my day.. .. I
know I will be very busy this weekend.... "getting my ducks in a
row"......waiting on the next phone call....
Julie in MO..... ( oh, and thanks Karen.. for the tip on the Mo Logging
thing.. I downloaded it today)

Molly

--- In [email protected], Julie Anderson
<anderclan@c...> wrote:
> Ok.. so today a DFS person and another lady from the county
sheriffs office came to my door..

Awww Julie, big hugs coming your way from a new-to-list lurker.
We're in Texas where there are NO laws regarding hsing and I had a
truant officer from the county knock on the door one afternoon last
August. He asked if I had any paperwork to "prove" we were
homeschooling and I told him there was none required. We stood and
talked about who notified him(the school district) and a homeschooler
in his own neighborhood. Even though it was a positive visit I was
VERY shaken and took days to get calm. You can read about our
experiences with public school, CPS(from withdrawing our son from a
ps pre-k) and the local school district here...
http://www.geocities.com/mollymomm3/hsiscool.html

Hang in there, hopefully it will all blow over soon and you can get
back to normal. After my little run-in I made a BIG "Proud
Homeschooling Family" sign on posterboard and put it in my son's
window for all to see. It made me feel better to display it.

Molly

Elizabeth Hill

**They both got out their clipboards and began with
the questions..They told me that I had been 'hot-lined'. for
educational neglect.. wanted to know the names, ages, of my kids and
what curriculum I used...**

Oh, gosh. Some states have dropped or set a low priority on
"educational neglect" cases, but maybe MO is not one of them.

Are you in touch with a homeschooling list or group in your state where
you can post your situation and get info about what else has been going
on locally?

Best wishes,
Betsy

PS I've been reading a new biography of Ben Franklin, and for someone
who's education was essentially "neglected" as a kid, he grew up to be a
pretty competent guy. <g>

Sara

Julie Anderson <anderclan@c...> wrote:
"Ok.. so today a DFS person and another lady from the county
sheriffs office came to my door.. I was tempted to let the dogs bark
longer but eventually I did go to the door. They identified
themselves and asked to come inside and ask a few questions.. I
said that the picnic table would be fine. They both got out their
clipboards and began with the questions..They told me that I had
been 'hot-lined'. for educational neglect.. wanted to know the
names, ages, of my kids and what curriculum I used... how long I had
been homeschooling..."


Julie...did they say who turned you in? Got any PO'ed family or
neighbors? Now that you've had time to review, what did they focus
on? A certain child? I'm glad you didn't let them in.

I'll be sending the good vibes your way....just remember ,use
different color ink on attendence and put in a week of sick
days....everyone had a bout of real bad summer head colds, did you
not? Download some crappy schooly looking work sheets if you get
time and do some coloring....write spelling words ten times and make
up sentences.....drag out any text looking reference and hang a
battered notebook in it. Borrow test scores from other MO
homeschooler, whiteout the names and re-copy.

Some do-gooder had to have ratted you out. Sara

kayb85

((((((Julie)))))))

A few things I learned from a friend who had child protective
services called on her. They can get a search warrant to come into
your home. Make sure kids' bedrooms, kitchen, main living area is
cleaned up.

Another thing you could do is take them to a doctor now, and have him
write on paper that they are healthy and not abused in anyway. I
know they are just saying "educational neglect" now, but it wouldn't
hurt to have that done.

Sheila

--- In [email protected], Julie Anderson
<anderclan@c...> wrote:
> Ok.. so today a DFS person and another lady from the county
sheriffs
> office came to my door.. I was tempted to let the dogs bark
longer ..
> but eventually I did go to the door. They identified themselves and
> asked to come inside and ask a few questions.. I said that the
picnic
> table would be fine. They both got out their clipboards and began
with
> the questions..They told me that I had been 'hot-lined'. for
> educational neglect.. wanted to know the names, ages, of my kids
and
> what curriculum I used... how long I had been homeschooling..I told
them
> that we were homeschoolers and that should be enough.. that legally
in
> MO.. that is all DFS needs to know. I'm hoping I didn't say too
much..
> they appeared to be friendly... wanted to look at my horses.. asked
> questions about the farm and all.. wanted to just 'see' my kids..
asked
> if they could just come to the window.. I was so afraid.. shaking
like a
> leaf by the time they finally left.. still shaking.. as I remember
and
> type this... I asked them if this would be the end of it.. and the
lady
> said.. probably not. So that is a simiplified version of my
day.. .. I
> know I will be very busy this weekend.... "getting my ducks in a
> row"......waiting on the next phone call....
> Julie in MO..... ( oh, and thanks Karen.. for the tip on the Mo
Logging
> thing.. I downloaded it today)

kayb85

Borrow test scores from other MO
> homeschooler, whiteout the names and re-copy.


I don't think I would do that...It could backfire.

Sheila

Penne & Buddies

AFAIK, in every state there is a provision in which parents must be
legally informed of a violation in the homeschooling law by written
notice from the school district (NOT the social workers) and you
have at least two weeks to comply. There are umbrella groups for
unschoolers everywhere -- they range from token fees to pricey, but
they are legal and will show you how to meet the legal requirements
easily. Look for specific info at http://www.homeedmag.com/

Best advice for dealing with DFS/CPS -- Make sure you have WITNESSES
before you speak to them again -- good friends, family, neighbors --
find at least one unbiased person (preferable two or more) you can
summon on short notice and have with you. NEVER talk to them alone -
- be friendly, be polite, be firm, and don't let them intimidate
you. Just say that you would LOVE to speak with them, but your
lawyer has advised you against speaking about this sort of thing
without him present (make him the scapegoat and stand your ground as
long as there is no threat being made.*) If you don't seem to have
a choice, a videocamera may tick them off, but it's better than
nothing. Check out the info at
http://www.familyrightsassociation.com

AFRA also has a link to the controversial HSLDA on their HELP ME NOW
page:
*The Social Worker At Your Door: 10 Helpful Hints
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000070.asp

Take this seriously, but don't let fear get the best of you. Just
understand the people you're dealing with -- they are not friendly,
that is an act. They _will_ lie to you and about you -- they _will_
try to be your "friend" and get you to be upfront and honest (after
all, we have nothing to hide) and they _will_ use everything they
have against you -- twisted to suit their agenda. Make sure they
have a piece of paper to back up every statement they make -- do NOT
take their word for it (my first mistake.)

If that sounds positively negative, it's because we were one of the
ones who escaped child protective (so-called) services with our
family intact. Since then, we have learned that this system is
corrupt (and has been for many, many years) in every single state
AFAIK, and those of us who have had a close encounter with CPS are
just now getting the courage to speak out! If you haven't heard the
horror stories on the news, then you have been underground for
awhile. Take care and let us know if we can help in any way.

Keep the Faith, Hope, and most of all, Love ~
Penne & the Crew
http://connections.ardfamilyco-op.net/pdacard.jpg


--- In [email protected], Julie Anderson
<anderclan@c...> wrote:
> Ok.. so today a DFS person and another lady from the county
sheriffs
> office came to my door.. I was tempted to let the dogs bark
longer ..
> but eventually I did go to the door. They identified themselves
and
> asked to come inside and ask a few questions.. I said that the
picnic
> table would be fine. They both got out their clipboards and began
with
> the questions..They told me that I had been 'hot-lined'. for
> educational neglect.. wanted to know the names, ages, of my kids
and
> what curriculum I used... how long I had been homeschooling..I
told them
> that we were homeschoolers and that should be enough.. that
legally in
> MO.. that is all DFS needs to know. I'm hoping I didn't say too
much..
> they appeared to be friendly... wanted to look at my horses..
asked
> questions about the farm and all.. wanted to just 'see' my kids..
asked
> if they could just come to the window.. I was so afraid.. shaking
like a
> leaf by the time they finally left.. still shaking.. as I remember
and
> type this... I asked them if this would be the end of it.. and the
lady
> said.. probably not. So that is a simiplified version of my
day.. .. I
> know I will be very busy this weekend.... "getting my ducks in a
> row"......waiting on the next phone call....
> Julie in MO..... ( oh, and thanks Karen.. for the tip on the Mo
Logging
> thing.. I downloaded it today)

Elizabeth Roberts

Having been there myself, I would second being very
cautious about what you say and how it is said. Remind
them that any reporting you must do by your state laws
is to the local school district superintendent and not
to them. As long as the local school district is
satisfied with your children's educational progress
they don't have a leg to stand on. In my case, there
were many lies on the part of the school district and
I am only now that we are out of the area able to
prove it, although our case was dropped due to the
move. I did file complaints however and that has
resulted in some of the personnel I was dealing with
in the school system who are no longer either working
for the school or no longer working in the same
capacity. Sadly there is little recourse against DSS.

It is still very frustrating and I wish I'd been
stronger against both the school and DSS at the time
things were happening. I understand your fears.

I will keep your family in my prayers that this is
resolved easily!

Elizabeth





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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:00:14 PM Central Standard Time,
crrbuddy@... writes:

AFAIK, in every state there is a provision in which parents must be
legally informed of a violation in the homeschooling law by written
notice from the school district (NOT the social workers) and you
have at least two weeks to comply.
~~~
There is no such provision in the law in Arkansas.
~~~

There are umbrella groups for
unschoolers everywhere -- they range from token fees to pricey, but
they are legal and will show you how to meet the legal requirements
easily. Look for specific info at http://www.homeedmag.com/


~~~

They're not legal for meeting the notification requirements in Arkansas.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Penne & Buddies

--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/20/2004 6:00:14 PM Central Standard Time,
> crrbuddy@y... writes:
>
> AFAIK, in every state there is a provision in which parents must
be
> legally informed of a violation in the homeschooling law by
written
> notice from the school district (NOT the social workers) and you
> have at least two weeks to comply.
> ~~~
> There is no such provision in the law in Arkansas.
> ~~~
>
> There are umbrella groups for
> unschoolers everywhere -- they range from token fees to pricey,
but
> they are legal and will show you how to meet the legal
requirements
> easily. Look for specific info at http://www.homeedmag.com/
>
>
> ~~~
>
> They're not legal for meeting the notification requirements in
Arkansas.
>
> Karen
>

Whoops! Forgot about Arkansas -- home of one of the most
ridiculously restrictive homeschooling laws in the country, founded
under the NEA-charged Clinton regime and nurtured to extremity by
HSLDA. Guess things haven't improved since we were advised to go
underground there by the state Christian homeschool group in the
early 90's. They instructed us unschooling types who objected to
mandatory teach-to-the-testing to take advantage of the "private
school" loophole which existed at the time. "Private school" had
thus far been defined as to what it is NOT (single homeschooling
family,) but not yet what it IS as long as the next WANNABE case had
not been brought up for review by the courts. This brilliant
strategy also worked to keep all the dissenters out of touch with
each other when HSLDA swooped in to "help" the lay people out with
all that complicated legal stuff.

We found out a year or so later that the local affiliated group had
a little discussion about our family, and the general consensus was
that their role should be one of "support" rather than throwing
their fellow homeschoolers to the wolves. I informed the thoughtful
person that warned me about this potential threat that I was
following the advice of their own state leaders in continuing to
follow the program we had established under Mississippi law
(modified Moore Associate program) before relocation.

At the time of the move, I naively thought that all homeschooling
laws were as free and open as ours were in MS -- live and learn a
little too late... CPS didn't come aknockin' at the door (or
rather, campus) till years later -- ironically, during a summer
vacation trip while touring my dad's alma mater in northern MS.
Another word to the wise, don't go camping with a large family away
from home(!) Strangers might get the idea that you're homeless and
unemployed, and question your homeschooling plan even when school's
out!

Whether it's Arkansas or any other state, where there's a sincere
will to unschool freely, there's always a way! Find a homeschool-
friendly private school and enroll as a homebound student, if need
be. I don't remember all the specifics of the law in Arkansas, but
I was sure that even they had a written notification provision to
allow parents time to comply before siccing the dogs on them. I'm
not the least surprised to hear there is none, as the last time I
heard, the one inclusive support group that had formed to defend
what was left of our right to direct our kids' education (before
HSLDA managed to remove them permanently) was losing the battle
there.

Another tip on dealing with (in)Human Services: Always answer the
door and telephone immediately if you can, even if it's to make more
another apology for not being able to discuss legal matters without
your attorney (even if you haven't one, yet) per his explicit
instructions. That made all the difference in the world with the
social worker who took up the case when it was transferred back
home.

This fella got upset when he got the answering machine the first
couple of times, and told me he suspected I was trying to avoid him
or screening my calls (which I was,) even when I called him right
back. I politely explained that I took my homeschooling
responsibilities seriously (and I really do-just not in the
conventional sense,) and had always discouraged people from dropping
in on us unannounced, as well as relying on the answering machine to
avoid unwelcome interruptions to our day (solicitors and social
workers being the main culprits for the time being.)

Nevertheless, I made sure he never felt rejected or neglected
again. The last time he popped in for a random visit, I was in a
merry mood as we were in the midst of party preparations for DH's
fortieth birthday. It was a messy scene (which prompted a
halfhearted reprimand) with craft projects abounding, but he
couldn't help but catch our enthusiasm. Even used our family in the
final interview as an example of one who never belonged on their
casebooks when introducing us to a new trainee.

A word on obtaining legal advice, the guy who runs MASS Outrage
(.com) has some excellent information on selecting the right one --
and thankfully, his website is up&running again. Our attorney was
an integral part of the good ole boy network, having married into a
well-established family firm, and the social worker was in the
minority and out of her league (even with her own counsel.) Greg
Hession says to make sure you get someone who knows and despises CPS
for the corrupt agency it is.

Greg adamantly advises against signing any kind of "case plan,"
stating that it is a trap which, thankfully, was never suggested to
us! The bottom line is don't fall for their bluffs and baldfaced
lies or let 'em tell you what you can and cannot do -- get a second
(third and fourth) opinion from a friendly, knowledgeable party as
long as you aren't backed into a corner (and don't get caught alone
at home or lured into their office, if you can help it. Again, they
really don't want any WITNESSES hanging around to mess up their
plans.)

You do have a right to legal counsel, even though they will do
everything but deny that fact to get you to open up and spill your
heart & soul to them. I can't find National Outrage online anymore,
but their best advice is to SHUT UP! Short, simple, and straight to
the heart of the matter. Name, rank, and serial number (and I'd
keep the latter to myself) is all that's required even when you're
guilty until proven innocent.

Godspeed ~ we're keeping the faith that you and your family will
prevail!

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/2004 8:27:21 PM Central Standard Time,
crrbuddy@... writes:

Whoops! Forgot about Arkansas -- home of one of the most
ridiculously restrictive homeschooling laws in the country, founded
under the NEA-charged Clinton regime and nurtured to extremity by
HSLDA. Guess things haven't improved since we were advised to go
underground there by the state Christian homeschool group in the
early 90's.


~~~

Things are not as bad as they were then. The testing no longer holds any
strings (although that could change with the recent Judicial Audit Committee
review of the homeschool law). We do have to test yearly, now, from grades
3-9, but the testing is not as lengthy and only in reading and math. Parents
are no longer required to have a high school diploma. There's now what I call
a "pound of flesh" provision, which prevents a parent from pulling their kid
out of school if they're under disciplinary action.

It's still very easy to be undergound.

Umbrella schools are still not a legal option, although out of state
boarding schools are. (I'm imagining an actual out of state boarding school acting
as a "covering" for those students who can afford to visit it once in a
while.) I can't imagine a private school taking a "homebound" student who wasn't
actually homebound. What good would that do for socialization? ;)

Karen




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]