gradually changing ( Why isn't this working!?)
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/21/2004 12:35:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
aburlingame@... writes:
Yesterday we went shopping. All the recent posts had me inspired. When 4 yo
asked me for Red Vines, I said, "yeah, grab a bag for us." Then 3 yo
immediately wanted chocolate teddy bear graham crackers. "OK." MY budget is so
strict that I shouldn't have been buying this stuff, but I was inspired to let them
pick. Well, they of course wanted EVERY single sweet treat they saw.
---------------------------------
The magic phrase is "next time," but you need to mean it.
-= We tried to watch a movie at their request (they'd already watched 3 that
day), but the baby wouldn't let us and it was getting late, -=-
Coulnd't the older two watch the movie while you took the baby for a walk
around the house or lay down with her elsewhere? If you expect full-group
agreement all the time, you're expecting something you're unlikely to get.
-=-I suggested watching the movie later the next day, and 4 yo was fine, but
3 yo balked, even though she wasn't really watching the show anyway. She
finally came around, though grumpily and she was obviously tired at 10:30.-=-
Could you have done something with her in the same room? Coloring,
Playdough, lego, sorting, cutting paper?
Could you rock her to sleep (if the baby was already down)?
-=- Would she like an apple or some cheese? 4 yo squeals, "Yes! and
apple!and some chocolate bears!" 3 yo screams, "NO and stomps her feet and crosses
her arms and demands red vines." -=-
I wouldn't have asked. I would have cut up some snacks and put them out on a
plate to let them choose through the day.
It sounds like the questions and answers are frustrting you. Try to arrange
choices without the asking and answering and aproving and disapproving in
cases where you can.
-=- I gave her another red vine, cored and sliced and apple and gave everyone
some bears. 4 yo says she doesn't have enough bears even before eating one.
I told her that if she was still hungry afterward and wanted more, she could
have some-=-
One shared platter prevents who has more, who didn't finish, etc.
-=-Before I could even get the dish water started, 4 yo says she is full and
leaves the table full of uneaten apple wedges--beautiful, crispy, tart-sweet
Braeburns that she used to love. I bite my tongue and ate them myself even
though I'm not hungry. -=-
Zip loc bag in the fridge would've prevented you eating them or being grouchy.
-=- I hate to see them turn brown and go to waste. Then, about 20 minutes
later, 4 yo comes up to me and says she's hungry. She asked me for chocolate
bears. 3 yo asked for more red vines. -=-
It's cheaper than future therapy.
And it's not waste if they get fed to birds or hamsters or put in a compost
pile.
-=-I'm sorry this is so long. It doesn't even scratch the surface of what
goes on around here. Though we also have fun, many of our days are filled with
fighting, crying, and whining. I just don't know what to do. -=-
If you give yourself two choices each time you're deciding what to do, you'll
gradually ratchet toward better decisions. Moving from frustration to
togetherness isn't a one-step trip. But taking the first step puts you in position
to take the second one.
Can you cut red vines into little pieces? (If kids would hate that, never
mind.)
Can you use more alluring distractions than "no" or "enough"? Instead of
saing, "No more movie," can you set up a fun table of something in another room,
and lure them there as soon as the movie's over?
When a baby is holding something dangerous, it works better to offer her
somethig eciting. Often she'll just drop the forgotten dangerous item. If you
try to wrestle it away, though, the baby cries and feels deprived, instead of
feeling she's just gotten hold of something beautiful and better.
I know it's hard to have babies. Sorry if this all seems dismissive. I don't
mean to be. Maybe it's like discussing whether childbirth hurts. It does
hurt. That part can't be changed. Having babies at home means too little
sleep, conflicting requests and demands, exhaustion. Frustration. The kinder you
are now, the better things will be next year, next month, next week,
tomorrow, and now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aburlingame@... writes:
Yesterday we went shopping. All the recent posts had me inspired. When 4 yo
asked me for Red Vines, I said, "yeah, grab a bag for us." Then 3 yo
immediately wanted chocolate teddy bear graham crackers. "OK." MY budget is so
strict that I shouldn't have been buying this stuff, but I was inspired to let them
pick. Well, they of course wanted EVERY single sweet treat they saw.
---------------------------------
The magic phrase is "next time," but you need to mean it.
-= We tried to watch a movie at their request (they'd already watched 3 that
day), but the baby wouldn't let us and it was getting late, -=-
Coulnd't the older two watch the movie while you took the baby for a walk
around the house or lay down with her elsewhere? If you expect full-group
agreement all the time, you're expecting something you're unlikely to get.
-=-I suggested watching the movie later the next day, and 4 yo was fine, but
3 yo balked, even though she wasn't really watching the show anyway. She
finally came around, though grumpily and she was obviously tired at 10:30.-=-
Could you have done something with her in the same room? Coloring,
Playdough, lego, sorting, cutting paper?
Could you rock her to sleep (if the baby was already down)?
-=- Would she like an apple or some cheese? 4 yo squeals, "Yes! and
apple!and some chocolate bears!" 3 yo screams, "NO and stomps her feet and crosses
her arms and demands red vines." -=-
I wouldn't have asked. I would have cut up some snacks and put them out on a
plate to let them choose through the day.
It sounds like the questions and answers are frustrting you. Try to arrange
choices without the asking and answering and aproving and disapproving in
cases where you can.
-=- I gave her another red vine, cored and sliced and apple and gave everyone
some bears. 4 yo says she doesn't have enough bears even before eating one.
I told her that if she was still hungry afterward and wanted more, she could
have some-=-
One shared platter prevents who has more, who didn't finish, etc.
-=-Before I could even get the dish water started, 4 yo says she is full and
leaves the table full of uneaten apple wedges--beautiful, crispy, tart-sweet
Braeburns that she used to love. I bite my tongue and ate them myself even
though I'm not hungry. -=-
Zip loc bag in the fridge would've prevented you eating them or being grouchy.
-=- I hate to see them turn brown and go to waste. Then, about 20 minutes
later, 4 yo comes up to me and says she's hungry. She asked me for chocolate
bears. 3 yo asked for more red vines. -=-
It's cheaper than future therapy.
And it's not waste if they get fed to birds or hamsters or put in a compost
pile.
-=-I'm sorry this is so long. It doesn't even scratch the surface of what
goes on around here. Though we also have fun, many of our days are filled with
fighting, crying, and whining. I just don't know what to do. -=-
If you give yourself two choices each time you're deciding what to do, you'll
gradually ratchet toward better decisions. Moving from frustration to
togetherness isn't a one-step trip. But taking the first step puts you in position
to take the second one.
Can you cut red vines into little pieces? (If kids would hate that, never
mind.)
Can you use more alluring distractions than "no" or "enough"? Instead of
saing, "No more movie," can you set up a fun table of something in another room,
and lure them there as soon as the movie's over?
When a baby is holding something dangerous, it works better to offer her
somethig eciting. Often she'll just drop the forgotten dangerous item. If you
try to wrestle it away, though, the baby cries and feels deprived, instead of
feeling she's just gotten hold of something beautiful and better.
I know it's hard to have babies. Sorry if this all seems dismissive. I don't
mean to be. Maybe it's like discussing whether childbirth hurts. It does
hurt. That part can't be changed. Having babies at home means too little
sleep, conflicting requests and demands, exhaustion. Frustration. The kinder you
are now, the better things will be next year, next month, next week,
tomorrow, and now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Andrea Burlingame
The magic phrase is "next time," but you need to mean it.
=================
I use this, and yes, it does work just fine, and I do mean it.
=================
Coulnd't the older two watch the movie while you took the baby for a walk
around the house or lay down with her elsewhere? If you expect full-group
agreement all the time, you're expecting something you're unlikely to get.
=================
I didn't mean to give the impression that I expect consensus. In this
particular case, the movie was one that I needed to watch with them, in case
it was scary for them or whatever. And also because they asked me to watch
it with them. (Close Encounters of the Third Kind) Otherwise, I would have
done just as you suggest, taken the baby away to do something else. I've
done that many times, believe me! LOL
==============
I wouldn't have asked. I would have cut up some snacks and put them out on
a plate to let them choose through the day.
==============
I do this too, but I can see why that would have helped in this particular
situation to have just done that instead of asking. I could have gotten the
red vines AND some other things, protein included, to entice them, and then
not worried about it. When I do put platters out, they eat all of it up
for the most part. Hmmm....this is an important insight for me.
===========
One shared platter prevents who has more, who didn't finish, etc...
===========
Yes, I actually did put out one shared platter, except for the red vines,
which they wanted control of. I use platters of food quite often.
Sometimes they bicker over who is grabbing the last piece, but I keep
reminding them that they can have more food if they are still hungry when it
is all gone.
============
It's cheaper than future therapy.
And it's not waste if they get fed to birds or hamsters or put in a compost
pile.
============
Yes, I can see this. I think I need to work on my own attitude about waste
and such.
===========
Can you use more alluring distractions than "no" or "enough"?
===========
Of course I can, and DO. My grabbing her firmly and saying, "Enough. I
don't like to be screamed at!" is an example of my losing my patience in
the fray. She was being so unreasonable and I was getting tired and
frustrated. It was a perfect place to breathe, but I didn't.
==========
Instead of saing, "No more movie," can you set up a fun table of something
in another room, and lure them there as soon as the movie's over?
===========
This seems like a really sensible and useful idea for me. I think the only
reason I haven't done more of this type of thing lately is because I'm
overwhelmed and need a break. When they are happy with a movie, I often
forget to look ahead to the end of the movie. Instead I either watch with
them and enjoy the peace, or I try to catch up on housework, or I am doing
something with the baby. I think I would like to be caught up, but even
when I am, it's hard to keep up. Anyway, I know this will get easier as
they get older.
=============
I know it's hard to have babies. Sorry if this all seems dismissive. I
don't mean to be. Maybe it's like discussing whether childbirth hurts. It
does hurt. That part can't be changed. Having babies at home means too
little sleep, conflicting requests and demands, exhaustion. Frustration.
The kinder you are now, the better things will be next year, next month,
next week, tomorrow, and now.
============
No, I understand that you don't mean to be dismissive. I don't feel
dismissed. I'm thankful for yours and everyone else's time and help. You
help me to see things differently sometimes and sometimes you remind of what
I know and this is good. I have a 15 yo son as well, and I remember how
things got easier in many ways as he got older. Still, he was one kid
compared to the three I have now, and he was VERY mellow. Very. Still is.
I wish I could let things flow around me the way he does. I need a good
meditative practice, and I will work harder at developing that. Thanks for
taking the time to read and respond to my emotional, frustrated posts.
~Andrea
=================
I use this, and yes, it does work just fine, and I do mean it.
=================
Coulnd't the older two watch the movie while you took the baby for a walk
around the house or lay down with her elsewhere? If you expect full-group
agreement all the time, you're expecting something you're unlikely to get.
=================
I didn't mean to give the impression that I expect consensus. In this
particular case, the movie was one that I needed to watch with them, in case
it was scary for them or whatever. And also because they asked me to watch
it with them. (Close Encounters of the Third Kind) Otherwise, I would have
done just as you suggest, taken the baby away to do something else. I've
done that many times, believe me! LOL
==============
I wouldn't have asked. I would have cut up some snacks and put them out on
a plate to let them choose through the day.
==============
I do this too, but I can see why that would have helped in this particular
situation to have just done that instead of asking. I could have gotten the
red vines AND some other things, protein included, to entice them, and then
not worried about it. When I do put platters out, they eat all of it up
for the most part. Hmmm....this is an important insight for me.
===========
One shared platter prevents who has more, who didn't finish, etc...
===========
Yes, I actually did put out one shared platter, except for the red vines,
which they wanted control of. I use platters of food quite often.
Sometimes they bicker over who is grabbing the last piece, but I keep
reminding them that they can have more food if they are still hungry when it
is all gone.
============
It's cheaper than future therapy.
And it's not waste if they get fed to birds or hamsters or put in a compost
pile.
============
Yes, I can see this. I think I need to work on my own attitude about waste
and such.
===========
Can you use more alluring distractions than "no" or "enough"?
===========
Of course I can, and DO. My grabbing her firmly and saying, "Enough. I
don't like to be screamed at!" is an example of my losing my patience in
the fray. She was being so unreasonable and I was getting tired and
frustrated. It was a perfect place to breathe, but I didn't.
==========
Instead of saing, "No more movie," can you set up a fun table of something
in another room, and lure them there as soon as the movie's over?
===========
This seems like a really sensible and useful idea for me. I think the only
reason I haven't done more of this type of thing lately is because I'm
overwhelmed and need a break. When they are happy with a movie, I often
forget to look ahead to the end of the movie. Instead I either watch with
them and enjoy the peace, or I try to catch up on housework, or I am doing
something with the baby. I think I would like to be caught up, but even
when I am, it's hard to keep up. Anyway, I know this will get easier as
they get older.
=============
I know it's hard to have babies. Sorry if this all seems dismissive. I
don't mean to be. Maybe it's like discussing whether childbirth hurts. It
does hurt. That part can't be changed. Having babies at home means too
little sleep, conflicting requests and demands, exhaustion. Frustration.
The kinder you are now, the better things will be next year, next month,
next week, tomorrow, and now.
============
No, I understand that you don't mean to be dismissive. I don't feel
dismissed. I'm thankful for yours and everyone else's time and help. You
help me to see things differently sometimes and sometimes you remind of what
I know and this is good. I have a 15 yo son as well, and I remember how
things got easier in many ways as he got older. Still, he was one kid
compared to the three I have now, and he was VERY mellow. Very. Still is.
I wish I could let things flow around me the way he does. I need a good
meditative practice, and I will work harder at developing that. Thanks for
taking the time to read and respond to my emotional, frustrated posts.
~Andrea
Game-Enthusiast
My kids could never resist a new warm batch of home-made play dough and the
bucket of cookie cutters. Do you have a recipe?
Also, when my kids were small, taking them outside when things were starting
to get tense, always worked. They also really like playing with water. A
pot of water on towels on the floor with barbies or beanies is always fun.
(and some shaving cream or a little shampoo) They can each have their own
pot of water and they get clean to boot. Shaving cream on the table to
draw in is fun too. Once we even brought the kiddie pool into the kitchen
in mid winter and filled it up and had a beach party. Lots of towels, our
pool had a small slide! And the kitchen floor got clean too. Maybe you
could think of some things that would be really new to them and make a list
and when things are falling apart, you could refer to the list with
enthusiasm and pick something to do. "I have a great idea, come here..."
Who can resist that?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bucket of cookie cutters. Do you have a recipe?
Also, when my kids were small, taking them outside when things were starting
to get tense, always worked. They also really like playing with water. A
pot of water on towels on the floor with barbies or beanies is always fun.
(and some shaving cream or a little shampoo) They can each have their own
pot of water and they get clean to boot. Shaving cream on the table to
draw in is fun too. Once we even brought the kiddie pool into the kitchen
in mid winter and filled it up and had a beach party. Lots of towels, our
pool had a small slide! And the kitchen floor got clean too. Maybe you
could think of some things that would be really new to them and make a list
and when things are falling apart, you could refer to the list with
enthusiasm and pick something to do. "I have a great idea, come here..."
Who can resist that?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
Andrea,
I understand completely how you feel. My kids were 1,3 and 5 when we moved
to a new city for DH's job. The plan was supposed to be that he would go
from a job where he worked from home and traveled half the time to a regular
9-5 job with occasional travel. What we ended up with instead was a 7-7
office job where he was traveling almost as often! Add to this the fact
that I left all of my mom friends in the old city and accidentally moved
into The Stepford Village from Hell!
I was so overwhelmed and isolated and unhappy. I got short tempered with
the kids, depressed and cried everyday, at least once.
Here are a few suggestions. Take what might work and leave the rest.
*Try to find a friend or two. Take the kids to story time at the library or
bookstore, go to a park, La Leche League Meeting (if applicable), homeschool
support group, etc. Anywhere you might strike up a conversation with
another like-minded mom. Sometimes it helps just have a short
I-know-what-you're-going-through conversation with another mom at the
playground.
*If you can, put a few things out at night after the kids go to bed that
might be interesting to them the next day. Set out paper and glue and
feathers ,pom poms, sequins, etc for an impromptu art project. Or play-doh
with cookie cutters and rolling pins. Rice and bean tub with measuring
spoons and cups.
*When everyone seems a little crabby, put on some great music and Dance!
* When things get really bad, just add water! I don't know why, but water
is a great relaxing diversion. Put them in the tub, take them outside to
wash the car, fill a tub with bubbly water to play in, get out the
sprinkler......anything wet. (I had a friend confide once that they had
such a bad day, her son was on his third bath!)
* When a long movie is coming to an end, and you think all hell might break
out, get them a snack tray to share about 15-20 minutes before then end of
the movie. You also might want to have an optional activity planned right
afterwards. Like "Hey, now that the movie is over, who wants to help me
bake cookies?" or "I was thinking about washing the car, anyone want to
help?".
* Find something YOU want to do while they are watching TV and do it. They
may decide it looks interesting and join you. If not, you still get to do
something of your own choosing.
* If the noise of the TV running constantly bugs you (and I can relate,
because I have a hard time even with background music that I choose!) you
can compromise. "I know you guys really like to watch the TV, but I need a
little quiet for a while. How about we watch a movie, then turn the TV off
for an hour?"
I hope some of these are useful to you.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how things go.
Marjorie
I understand completely how you feel. My kids were 1,3 and 5 when we moved
to a new city for DH's job. The plan was supposed to be that he would go
from a job where he worked from home and traveled half the time to a regular
9-5 job with occasional travel. What we ended up with instead was a 7-7
office job where he was traveling almost as often! Add to this the fact
that I left all of my mom friends in the old city and accidentally moved
into The Stepford Village from Hell!
I was so overwhelmed and isolated and unhappy. I got short tempered with
the kids, depressed and cried everyday, at least once.
Here are a few suggestions. Take what might work and leave the rest.
*Try to find a friend or two. Take the kids to story time at the library or
bookstore, go to a park, La Leche League Meeting (if applicable), homeschool
support group, etc. Anywhere you might strike up a conversation with
another like-minded mom. Sometimes it helps just have a short
I-know-what-you're-going-through conversation with another mom at the
playground.
*If you can, put a few things out at night after the kids go to bed that
might be interesting to them the next day. Set out paper and glue and
feathers ,pom poms, sequins, etc for an impromptu art project. Or play-doh
with cookie cutters and rolling pins. Rice and bean tub with measuring
spoons and cups.
*When everyone seems a little crabby, put on some great music and Dance!
* When things get really bad, just add water! I don't know why, but water
is a great relaxing diversion. Put them in the tub, take them outside to
wash the car, fill a tub with bubbly water to play in, get out the
sprinkler......anything wet. (I had a friend confide once that they had
such a bad day, her son was on his third bath!)
* When a long movie is coming to an end, and you think all hell might break
out, get them a snack tray to share about 15-20 minutes before then end of
the movie. You also might want to have an optional activity planned right
afterwards. Like "Hey, now that the movie is over, who wants to help me
bake cookies?" or "I was thinking about washing the car, anyone want to
help?".
* Find something YOU want to do while they are watching TV and do it. They
may decide it looks interesting and join you. If not, you still get to do
something of your own choosing.
* If the noise of the TV running constantly bugs you (and I can relate,
because I have a hard time even with background music that I choose!) you
can compromise. "I know you guys really like to watch the TV, but I need a
little quiet for a while. How about we watch a movie, then turn the TV off
for an hour?"
I hope some of these are useful to you.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how things go.
Marjorie
Andrea Burlingame
My kids could never resist a new warm batch of home-made play dough and the
bucket of cookie cutters. Do you have a recipe?
==========
I have several of MaryAnn Kohl's books and we do this quite a bit.
Yesterday we made edible dough with peanut butter, corn syrup, powdered
sugar and powdered milk. It was fun. We all ate a little, but it was so
rich. The texture was different than other doughs we have made and we liked
the oiliness of it. We had a good time.
============
A pot of water on towels on the floor with barbies or beanies is always
fun. (and some shaving cream or a little shampoo) They can each have their
own pot of water and they get clean to boot.
============
We do a version of this too, but I haven't tried the shaving cream or
beanies. Thanks for the tip!
I can see the sense in just getting things ready to do, and when I remember
to do that, things go much more smoothly. Like last night when their movie
ended, there was ingredients for edible dough set up on the table. They
just jumped right in!
Thanks for the reminder!
~Andrea
bucket of cookie cutters. Do you have a recipe?
==========
I have several of MaryAnn Kohl's books and we do this quite a bit.
Yesterday we made edible dough with peanut butter, corn syrup, powdered
sugar and powdered milk. It was fun. We all ate a little, but it was so
rich. The texture was different than other doughs we have made and we liked
the oiliness of it. We had a good time.
============
A pot of water on towels on the floor with barbies or beanies is always
fun. (and some shaving cream or a little shampoo) They can each have their
own pot of water and they get clean to boot.
============
We do a version of this too, but I haven't tried the shaving cream or
beanies. Thanks for the tip!
I can see the sense in just getting things ready to do, and when I remember
to do that, things go much more smoothly. Like last night when their movie
ended, there was ingredients for edible dough set up on the table. They
just jumped right in!
Thanks for the reminder!
~Andrea
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 11:01:28 AM, aburlingame@... writes:
<< I can see the sense in just getting things ready to do, and when I remember
to do that, things go much more smoothly. Like last night when their movie
ended, there was ingredients for edible dough set up on the table. They
just jumped right in! >>
I started doing kids' birthday parties that way when they were little, and I
still do it. If there are two places they're toggling between (like patio and
living room, at the old house, and library and kitchen here) I go and take
down and set up the next phase--food, game, cake, gifts) while they're occupied
in the other place, then when they change rooms I go straighten up and
re-stage the room they just left.
Sandra
<< I can see the sense in just getting things ready to do, and when I remember
to do that, things go much more smoothly. Like last night when their movie
ended, there was ingredients for edible dough set up on the table. They
just jumped right in! >>
I started doing kids' birthday parties that way when they were little, and I
still do it. If there are two places they're toggling between (like patio and
living room, at the old house, and library and kitchen here) I go and take
down and set up the next phase--food, game, cake, gifts) while they're occupied
in the other place, then when they change rooms I go straighten up and
re-stage the room they just left.
Sandra