Re: Visitor's food restrictions
Tosca
Hi Robyn,
Sorry to see you are in the middle of such unfun stuff.
Makes me glad the only children that come over are ones with whom my
parenting skills don't CLASH! yikes.
In my home there are guidelines and restictions when my daughter goes
out with me I try to keep her within reasonable boundaries and when I
leave her with families I tell them what we are accustomed to and
hope they will try to respect that but I know my daughter will wander
as far into whatever appeals to her as she can get.
There is a mom in my local group however whose kids tho 'restricted'
as many might think of them would never stray from what they know by
home example to be appropriate without qualms.
I cannot be sure what causes this but it does lead me to believe
setting limits does not always mean children will rebel and resent.
Families are so complex we may never really figure it all out.
But also watching some families and kids it does seem that tho in age
many children are old enough to make their own choices in actuality
they are not mature enough, not being groomed toward that outcome, or
the parents simply do not want to relinquish their control over
certain issues so the children reamain stunted or at least contained.
If a parent leaves a child with me I feel it appropriate to tell them
what my ideas are on food nutrition snacks etc before they leave and
let them know I will treat their children according to those
guidelines unless we predetermine some other course of action.
It's not my job alone to over ride, undermine or enforce their rules.
The control and other issues being showcased in the playmate you have
shared about are complex and on a core level not about anything
tangible so there might be little you can do to change negative
behaviors from this vantage point.
ggrrr 2 minute warning this is no way to discuss such issues but I
have to truncate myself right now.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
My reaction was a little different, as it struck me as being pretty
DISrespectful of the *nine* year old visitor, who surely is old
enough .. Which brings me to what is a bit of a dilemma:
.. bowls...and she then ate no more. If he asked for ice cream (or
anything actually) she immediately wanted the same (then didn't eat
it except for the ice-cream). .. I HATE FEELING AN OBLIGATION TO SAY
THIS KIND OF STUFF.
Sorry to see you are in the middle of such unfun stuff.
Makes me glad the only children that come over are ones with whom my
parenting skills don't CLASH! yikes.
In my home there are guidelines and restictions when my daughter goes
out with me I try to keep her within reasonable boundaries and when I
leave her with families I tell them what we are accustomed to and
hope they will try to respect that but I know my daughter will wander
as far into whatever appeals to her as she can get.
There is a mom in my local group however whose kids tho 'restricted'
as many might think of them would never stray from what they know by
home example to be appropriate without qualms.
I cannot be sure what causes this but it does lead me to believe
setting limits does not always mean children will rebel and resent.
Families are so complex we may never really figure it all out.
But also watching some families and kids it does seem that tho in age
many children are old enough to make their own choices in actuality
they are not mature enough, not being groomed toward that outcome, or
the parents simply do not want to relinquish their control over
certain issues so the children reamain stunted or at least contained.
If a parent leaves a child with me I feel it appropriate to tell them
what my ideas are on food nutrition snacks etc before they leave and
let them know I will treat their children according to those
guidelines unless we predetermine some other course of action.
It's not my job alone to over ride, undermine or enforce their rules.
The control and other issues being showcased in the playmate you have
shared about are complex and on a core level not about anything
tangible so there might be little you can do to change negative
behaviors from this vantage point.
ggrrr 2 minute warning this is no way to discuss such issues but I
have to truncate myself right now.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
My reaction was a little different, as it struck me as being pretty
DISrespectful of the *nine* year old visitor, who surely is old
enough .. Which brings me to what is a bit of a dilemma:
.. bowls...and she then ate no more. If he asked for ice cream (or
anything actually) she immediately wanted the same (then didn't eat
it except for the ice-cream). .. I HATE FEELING AN OBLIGATION TO SAY
THIS KIND OF STUFF.
Robyn Coburn
<<<In my home there are guidelines and restictions when my daughter goes
out with me I try to keep her within reasonable boundaries and when I
leave her with families I tell them what we are accustomed to and
hope they will try to respect that but I know my daughter will wander
as far into whatever appeals to her as she can get.>>>
I fortunately don't need to leave Jayn with anyone - only ever did so once.
I am always nearby on her play-dates.
I think if I were to, I would do as you do and explain the freedoms that
Jayn lives by in terms of food. It is as simple as "Jayn may eat or drink as
much or little of anything she likes whenever she wants, but she is allergic
to peanuts." I would not be leaving her with someone who was uncongenial or
unwilling to let her eat her food, or leave it either (and I would always
have the food bag to leave with her)
My job as an Unschooler is to help Jayn wander as far into everything that
appeals to her as she wants to, and as far as we can manage from a practical
point of view.
It sounds like your daughter is "testing those boundaries" to use some
jargon from modern parenting. Are we still talking about food?
<<<There is a mom in my local group however whose kids tho 'restricted'
as many might think of them would never stray from what they know by
home example to be appropriate without qualms.>>>
"Would never" is a big phrase.
Does "qualms" mean these are children who are afraid of their parents, or
punishment? Jayn has no fear of dh or me.
<<<I cannot be sure what causes this but it does lead me to believe
setting limits does not always mean children will rebel and resent.>>>
Are you recommending restrictions then? I'm not understanding your point.
<<<But also watching some families and kids it does seem that tho in age
many children are old enough to make their own choices in actuality
they are not mature enough, not being groomed toward that outcome, or
the parents simply do not want to relinquish their control over
certain issues so the children reamain stunted or at least contained.>>>
Thank you so much for the opportunity to cross post something I wrote
several weeks ago on U/B. Warning to members of both lists - here comes some
of the "Buzz Words" post again - feel free to stop reading now if this is
old news.
Slightly Modified Quote Begins:
I am going to look at some semantics here... because of a larger issue of
how we as Unschoolers are beyond a lot of modern parenting and its
discourses.
I want to suggest the idea that in the wider parenting world the words
"implementing limits", or more usually "setting limits", is a buzz word
phrase - politically correct jargon of supposedly aware parenting, which can
often be translated into "controlling the children's behavior". "Limits" can
mean "what parents tolerate in their comfort zone". Similarly, the term
"consequences" is often a euphemistic way of saying "punishments" - even
though time outs or grounding or doing specific related chores (like washing
the walls off [after drawing on them] for example) are orders of magnitude
better than old fashioned strategies like screamed insults, shame and guilt,
spanking, being sent to bed with or without supper, or being sent off to
military school or ensconced in a nunnery.
Lists that discuss unschooling often include so much that is about changing
your parenting on a deep thought level, so using these part-time buzz words
may spark unexpected semantics based responses. From the TV series based on
the Buddhist folk tale "Monkey": "With our thoughts we make the world". With
(only) our words, we make our thoughts known online.
Another modern parenting idea is "Give your children choices". How could
this be problematic for Unschoolers? Well, I recall an episode of Oprah
where a very nice modern mother was enthusing about the various strategies
she uses for ease of parenting and family life - her big tool was "giving
kids choices" that included which color of jacket to put on. For anyone who
has been around unschooling for even a little while, it just looks like
manipulation - hmmm, actually it *is* manipulation (and [she was] proud of
it!). The choices aren't real, they are "practice choices" in situations
that are resoundingly trivial, because the idea is to fool the kid into
behaving a certain way, and any alternative outside of the two or three
parent sanctioned ideas is not "given". Again, a huge improvement over no
choices at all and fear based obedience, but not as enlightened as
unschooling can be. Gosh, it sounds smug to use "enlightened" but it still
seems the best word.
Unschoolers are usually on a path towards real choices that their children
"make" rather than being "given" or "permitted". Sometimes this means
gritting your teeth and biting your tongue. Occasionally these real choices
are likely to have crummy (but presumably not life or limb threatening)
results, especially when the children are young. For most "ordinary parents"
the teeth gritting over bad choices comes when the youngster is grown up or
in their late teens and is suddenly "given" (translation: mandatory
acceptance) responsibilities and adult behavior expectations. We get to
practice gritting for way longer. ;)
One quantum leap in thinking is letting go of the "giving" of choices.
Instead it becomes about "creating" an environment and lifestyle where the
children, and indeed the adults in the family, have the opportunity to make
real choices, or dither about making them. A principles-based lifestyle,
instead of a hierarchy.
It becomes about letting go of the need to ensure that they are "learning
from their mistakes" and not have every bad result elucidated for them, as
if they were too stupid to notice that they felt cold when they didn't
choose any jacket. (Just quietly bring the favorite along, or keep a spare
in the car without comment). When consequences are seamlessly obvious, they
need not be mentioned.
In this created life follwing this leap, the thought processes behind
choices can be unsullied by the suspicion that the parents are trying to
manage and control (or just bullshitting). It becomes about a parent not
being emotionally attached to the free advice they are able to give when
asked, by children who actually trust their parents to express only truthful
and plausible misgivings, and help brainstorm around those problems.
It means that the parents get to own and express their own varying comfort
levels, without the rigid concept of "setting limits". It means that the
children don't have to constantly look for the delineation of those limits
and test their validity.
Insomniac Musings
Quote ends.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
out with me I try to keep her within reasonable boundaries and when I
leave her with families I tell them what we are accustomed to and
hope they will try to respect that but I know my daughter will wander
as far into whatever appeals to her as she can get.>>>
I fortunately don't need to leave Jayn with anyone - only ever did so once.
I am always nearby on her play-dates.
I think if I were to, I would do as you do and explain the freedoms that
Jayn lives by in terms of food. It is as simple as "Jayn may eat or drink as
much or little of anything she likes whenever she wants, but she is allergic
to peanuts." I would not be leaving her with someone who was uncongenial or
unwilling to let her eat her food, or leave it either (and I would always
have the food bag to leave with her)
My job as an Unschooler is to help Jayn wander as far into everything that
appeals to her as she wants to, and as far as we can manage from a practical
point of view.
It sounds like your daughter is "testing those boundaries" to use some
jargon from modern parenting. Are we still talking about food?
<<<There is a mom in my local group however whose kids tho 'restricted'
as many might think of them would never stray from what they know by
home example to be appropriate without qualms.>>>
"Would never" is a big phrase.
Does "qualms" mean these are children who are afraid of their parents, or
punishment? Jayn has no fear of dh or me.
<<<I cannot be sure what causes this but it does lead me to believe
setting limits does not always mean children will rebel and resent.>>>
Are you recommending restrictions then? I'm not understanding your point.
<<<But also watching some families and kids it does seem that tho in age
many children are old enough to make their own choices in actuality
they are not mature enough, not being groomed toward that outcome, or
the parents simply do not want to relinquish their control over
certain issues so the children reamain stunted or at least contained.>>>
Thank you so much for the opportunity to cross post something I wrote
several weeks ago on U/B. Warning to members of both lists - here comes some
of the "Buzz Words" post again - feel free to stop reading now if this is
old news.
Slightly Modified Quote Begins:
I am going to look at some semantics here... because of a larger issue of
how we as Unschoolers are beyond a lot of modern parenting and its
discourses.
I want to suggest the idea that in the wider parenting world the words
"implementing limits", or more usually "setting limits", is a buzz word
phrase - politically correct jargon of supposedly aware parenting, which can
often be translated into "controlling the children's behavior". "Limits" can
mean "what parents tolerate in their comfort zone". Similarly, the term
"consequences" is often a euphemistic way of saying "punishments" - even
though time outs or grounding or doing specific related chores (like washing
the walls off [after drawing on them] for example) are orders of magnitude
better than old fashioned strategies like screamed insults, shame and guilt,
spanking, being sent to bed with or without supper, or being sent off to
military school or ensconced in a nunnery.
Lists that discuss unschooling often include so much that is about changing
your parenting on a deep thought level, so using these part-time buzz words
may spark unexpected semantics based responses. From the TV series based on
the Buddhist folk tale "Monkey": "With our thoughts we make the world". With
(only) our words, we make our thoughts known online.
Another modern parenting idea is "Give your children choices". How could
this be problematic for Unschoolers? Well, I recall an episode of Oprah
where a very nice modern mother was enthusing about the various strategies
she uses for ease of parenting and family life - her big tool was "giving
kids choices" that included which color of jacket to put on. For anyone who
has been around unschooling for even a little while, it just looks like
manipulation - hmmm, actually it *is* manipulation (and [she was] proud of
it!). The choices aren't real, they are "practice choices" in situations
that are resoundingly trivial, because the idea is to fool the kid into
behaving a certain way, and any alternative outside of the two or three
parent sanctioned ideas is not "given". Again, a huge improvement over no
choices at all and fear based obedience, but not as enlightened as
unschooling can be. Gosh, it sounds smug to use "enlightened" but it still
seems the best word.
Unschoolers are usually on a path towards real choices that their children
"make" rather than being "given" or "permitted". Sometimes this means
gritting your teeth and biting your tongue. Occasionally these real choices
are likely to have crummy (but presumably not life or limb threatening)
results, especially when the children are young. For most "ordinary parents"
the teeth gritting over bad choices comes when the youngster is grown up or
in their late teens and is suddenly "given" (translation: mandatory
acceptance) responsibilities and adult behavior expectations. We get to
practice gritting for way longer. ;)
One quantum leap in thinking is letting go of the "giving" of choices.
Instead it becomes about "creating" an environment and lifestyle where the
children, and indeed the adults in the family, have the opportunity to make
real choices, or dither about making them. A principles-based lifestyle,
instead of a hierarchy.
It becomes about letting go of the need to ensure that they are "learning
from their mistakes" and not have every bad result elucidated for them, as
if they were too stupid to notice that they felt cold when they didn't
choose any jacket. (Just quietly bring the favorite along, or keep a spare
in the car without comment). When consequences are seamlessly obvious, they
need not be mentioned.
In this created life follwing this leap, the thought processes behind
choices can be unsullied by the suspicion that the parents are trying to
manage and control (or just bullshitting). It becomes about a parent not
being emotionally attached to the free advice they are able to give when
asked, by children who actually trust their parents to express only truthful
and plausible misgivings, and help brainstorm around those problems.
It means that the parents get to own and express their own varying comfort
levels, without the rigid concept of "setting limits". It means that the
children don't have to constantly look for the delineation of those limits
and test their validity.
Insomniac Musings
Quote ends.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
Vijay Berry Owens
Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only exposing
them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
so many questions.
TIA,
-Vijay
SAHM to Charlotte, 14 months
them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
so many questions.
TIA,
-Vijay
SAHM to Charlotte, 14 months
On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 02:59 PM, Tosca wrote:
> Hi Robyn,
>
> Sorry to see you are in the middle of such unfun stuff.
>
> Makes me glad the only children that come over are ones with whom my
> parenting skills don't CLASH! yikes.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Muzyczka
At 10:49 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote:
outlooks. You don't need to feel obligated to be friendly with people you
don't like just to broaden their minds. I think we, just naturally, will
tend to expose our young kids to people who are "like-minded" because they
are our friends. As they get older they will make friends with kids you
aren't nuts about. It'll happen.
I wouldn't sweat it either way. Just live life.
Kelly
>Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only exposingShort of locking them in a room you can't avoid people with different
>them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
>an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
>here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
>so many questions.
>
>TIA,
>
>-Vijay
>SAHM to Charlotte, 14 months
outlooks. You don't need to feel obligated to be friendly with people you
don't like just to broaden their minds. I think we, just naturally, will
tend to expose our young kids to people who are "like-minded" because they
are our friends. As they get older they will make friends with kids you
aren't nuts about. It'll happen.
I wouldn't sweat it either way. Just live life.
Kelly
Tosca
Hi TIA,
Your question is of course rather rhetorical glad you are living and
learning.
What I was thinking as I wrote was the decision to have children come
over to my house for a playdate usually comes about when I am talking
to friends. Which not that we all think exactly alike but have at
least come to some agreements on how to handle letting our children
be together and how our different parenting styles can be implemented
and or respected.
In our daily activities we are exposed to whomever comes into our
path learning from them enjoying what is enjoyable about them etc.
which I think is all that is reasonable.
Staying open to that is I think beneficial.
Knowing what parameters you can comfortably navigate in when
encountering or getting to know better someone new is I think helpful.
The idea of what types of people children will ultimately be exposed
to is bigger than the people we might bring home. Unless you never
leave home or accept any media etc and also to large degree in
absence of that type of a lifestyle how children percieve the world
they increasingly becoming aware of.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], Kelly Muzyczka
Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only
exposing them to like-minded people?
Your question is of course rather rhetorical glad you are living and
learning.
What I was thinking as I wrote was the decision to have children come
over to my house for a playdate usually comes about when I am talking
to friends. Which not that we all think exactly alike but have at
least come to some agreements on how to handle letting our children
be together and how our different parenting styles can be implemented
and or respected.
In our daily activities we are exposed to whomever comes into our
path learning from them enjoying what is enjoyable about them etc.
which I think is all that is reasonable.
Staying open to that is I think beneficial.
Knowing what parameters you can comfortably navigate in when
encountering or getting to know better someone new is I think helpful.
The idea of what types of people children will ultimately be exposed
to is bigger than the people we might bring home. Unless you never
leave home or accept any media etc and also to large degree in
absence of that type of a lifestyle how children percieve the world
they increasingly becoming aware of.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], Kelly Muzyczka
Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only
exposing them to like-minded people?
Robyn Coburn
<<<Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only exposing
them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
so many questions.>>>
My feeling is that social events should be enjoyable, and maybe even
relaxing. As someone undertaking a lifestyle and parenting style that is
outside of the mainstream, seeking out like-minded people to have most of
our interactions and fun with, is a good thing. I want Jayn to have fun
without being hassled to "be careful", and only slide down the slide, as it
were. I want us both to be able to be ourselves free of other people's
judgmental attitudes whenever possible.
Also, it helps me consolidate my actions by seeing other gentle parents in
action, and it saves me from having to feel like I have to justify myself or
my child and just makes everything more relaxed.
Like-minded is a sliding scale also. For practical purposes, there are very
few almost completely like-minded folk around. We find each other once a
year at the Live and Learn Conference. The rest of time for us Coburns, it
is a pleasant compromise with folk who concur for the most part, and these
points of separation make less difference to Jayn, for her playing, and the
adults maintain polite toleration of the areas of schism.
The wider society presents plenty of opportunities to see the dominant
ideology at work, and people who are not like-minded (in the parenting area)
for comparison. The only way to avoid wider society is to sequester yourself
in tiny communities, and actively seek to be isolated. I know that some
people do this. We do not. Our family is out in the wider community, as well
as seeking out congenial companionship.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
so many questions.>>>
My feeling is that social events should be enjoyable, and maybe even
relaxing. As someone undertaking a lifestyle and parenting style that is
outside of the mainstream, seeking out like-minded people to have most of
our interactions and fun with, is a good thing. I want Jayn to have fun
without being hassled to "be careful", and only slide down the slide, as it
were. I want us both to be able to be ourselves free of other people's
judgmental attitudes whenever possible.
Also, it helps me consolidate my actions by seeing other gentle parents in
action, and it saves me from having to feel like I have to justify myself or
my child and just makes everything more relaxed.
Like-minded is a sliding scale also. For practical purposes, there are very
few almost completely like-minded folk around. We find each other once a
year at the Live and Learn Conference. The rest of time for us Coburns, it
is a pleasant compromise with folk who concur for the most part, and these
points of separation make less difference to Jayn, for her playing, and the
adults maintain polite toleration of the areas of schism.
The wider society presents plenty of opportunities to see the dominant
ideology at work, and people who are not like-minded (in the parenting area)
for comparison. The only way to avoid wider society is to sequester yourself
in tiny communities, and actively seek to be isolated. I know that some
people do this. We do not. Our family is out in the wider community, as well
as seeking out congenial companionship.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
Vijay Berry Owens
Thanks, that makes sense. I just felt like unschooling is so great at
preparing kids for the "real world" in so many ways, I didn't know if
maybe it would be a shock at some point for them to realize that "not
everyone is like us."
Kind of like it's a shock for many schooled kids to suddenly be shoved
out on their own at 18 and expected to cook and clean and balance a
checkbook when they've had everything done for them up to that point.
It's natural for me to feel drawn to other parents who are either
practicing or trying to implement the parenting techniques that I
believe in but I didn't know if that was best for DD or not. I guess I
should just trust my instincts!
I want to be surrounded by people who are non-judgemental too. That
sounds good! Right now I feel like the only "crunchy" parent in a
"chewy" world if you know what I mean. People here don't sling their
babies or co-sleep etc. and they think I'm weird.
Not that I care what they think, lol. I just think I confuse people
because they are all the same and I'm the only different one (that I
know of). Part of it is that I'm just so isolated out here in the
country. I've got to get my license!
Vijay Berry Owens
SAHM to Charlotte, 15 months
preparing kids for the "real world" in so many ways, I didn't know if
maybe it would be a shock at some point for them to realize that "not
everyone is like us."
Kind of like it's a shock for many schooled kids to suddenly be shoved
out on their own at 18 and expected to cook and clean and balance a
checkbook when they've had everything done for them up to that point.
It's natural for me to feel drawn to other parents who are either
practicing or trying to implement the parenting techniques that I
believe in but I didn't know if that was best for DD or not. I guess I
should just trust my instincts!
I want to be surrounded by people who are non-judgemental too. That
sounds good! Right now I feel like the only "crunchy" parent in a
"chewy" world if you know what I mean. People here don't sling their
babies or co-sleep etc. and they think I'm weird.
Not that I care what they think, lol. I just think I confuse people
because they are all the same and I'm the only different one (that I
know of). Part of it is that I'm just so isolated out here in the
country. I've got to get my license!
Vijay Berry Owens
SAHM to Charlotte, 15 months
On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:16 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
>
> <<<Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only
> exposing
> them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
> an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
> here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
> so many questions.>>>
>
> My feeling is that social events should be enjoyable, and maybe even
> relaxing. As someone undertaking a lifestyle and parenting style that is
> outside of the mainstream, seeking out like-minded people to have most
> of
> our interactions and fun with, is a good thing. I want Jayn to have fun
> without being hassled to "be careful", and only slide down the slide,
> as it
> were. I want us both to be able to be ourselves free of other people's
> judgmental attitudes whenever possible.
>
SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
Vijay Berry Owens <vijayowens@...> wrote:
On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 04:16 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
>
> <<<Just wondering: would I be doing my kids a disservice by only
> exposing
> them to like-minded people? My daughter is so young that it's not really
> an issue yet, but that's why I'm here. I've learned so much by reading
> here and at Unschooling Basics and at unschooling.com but I still have
> so many questions.>>>
>
> My feeling is that social events should be enjoyable, and maybe even
> relaxing. As someone undertaking a lifestyle and parenting style that is
> outside of the mainstream, seeking out like-minded people to have most
> of
> our interactions and fun with, is a good thing. I want Jayn to have fun
> without being hassled to "be careful", and only slide down the slide,
> as it
> were. I want us both to be able to be ourselves free of other people's
> judgmental attitudes whenever possible.
>
I think it would be great for her development just meeting like-minded people for as long as possible. My 3 turned into nervous wrecks meeting fundie conservative judgemental people for 2 years.
If we had met them from a strong place I doubt it wuld have affected them but we knew no like-minded people and we'd just moved countries so they were rather vunerable. Jayn will get plenty of time when she is a grown up to meet differnt types and by them she will be a strong, loving, forgiving type of person who wont let herself be affected by it.
Just my opinion. And Heather still asks about Jayn :-)
Shyrley
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Robyn Coburn
<<<If we had met them from a strong place I doubt it wuld have affected them
but we knew no like-minded people and we'd just moved countries so they were
rather vunerable. Jayn will get plenty of time when she is a grown up to
meet differnt types and by them she will be a strong, loving, forgiving type
of person who wont let herself be affected by it.>>>
This is my hope, and an idea I wanted to express but couldn't find the words
for, so thanks.
<<<<And Heather still asks about Jayn :-)>>>>
Jayn still asks about Heather too, and is sorry she won't be at the
conference this time.
I'm so happy you're back on the list and just as feisty as ever, Shyrley.
Robyn L. Coburn
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but we knew no like-minded people and we'd just moved countries so they were
rather vunerable. Jayn will get plenty of time when she is a grown up to
meet differnt types and by them she will be a strong, loving, forgiving type
of person who wont let herself be affected by it.>>>
This is my hope, and an idea I wanted to express but couldn't find the words
for, so thanks.
<<<<And Heather still asks about Jayn :-)>>>>
Jayn still asks about Heather too, and is sorry she won't be at the
conference this time.
I'm so happy you're back on the list and just as feisty as ever, Shyrley.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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kayb85
I want Jayn to have fun
people who constantly make me feel like I have to defend my
parenting. Of course we all from time to time are in situations where
we have to speak up and defend our kids, but too much of that too
often can just wear me down and make it harder for me to be a calm,
patient mom.
people on this list, and I can't wait to actually see someone other
than me parenting in this way! I will be in heaven if all I get to
do is just sit and observe. :)
The rest of time for us Coburns, it
close on the sliding scale is pretty small. I wish there were more!
Sometimes we are less social than we'd like because of a lack of like
minded people. It's a good thing we're naturally introverts. :)
Sheila
> without being hassled to "be careful", and only slide down theslide, as it
> were. I want us both to be able to be ourselves free of otherpeople's
> judgmental attitudes whenever possible.parents in
> Also, it helps me consolidate my actions by seeing other gentle
> action, and it saves me from having to feel like I have to justifymyself or
> my child and just makes everything more relaxed.I agree. I also find that *I* am a better parent when I'm not around
>
people who constantly make me feel like I have to defend my
parenting. Of course we all from time to time are in situations where
we have to speak up and defend our kids, but too much of that too
often can just wear me down and make it harder for me to be a calm,
patient mom.
> Like-minded is a sliding scale also. For practical purposes, thereare very
> few almost completely like-minded folk around. We find each otheronce a
> year at the Live and Learn Conference.Oh, I can't wait! I have learned and changed SO much as a result of
people on this list, and I can't wait to actually see someone other
than me parenting in this way! I will be in heaven if all I get to
do is just sit and observe. :)
The rest of time for us Coburns, it
> is a pleasant compromise with folk who concur for the most part,and these
> points of separation make less difference to Jayn, for her playing,and the
> adults maintain polite toleration of the areas of schism.Yep, us too. Although in our area, the number of people who come
close on the sliding scale is pretty small. I wish there were more!
Sometimes we are less social than we'd like because of a lack of like
minded people. It's a good thing we're naturally introverts. :)
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/22/04 11:58:29 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< I can't wait to actually see someone other
than me parenting in this way! I will be in heaven if all I get to
do is just sit and observe. :) >>
I'm probably going to ignore my kids a lot, but they're big now. Feel free
to find them and interrogate them in some subtle fashion if you want to (and if
you can find them)--Marty and Holly will be there.
Sandra
<< I can't wait to actually see someone other
than me parenting in this way! I will be in heaven if all I get to
do is just sit and observe. :) >>
I'm probably going to ignore my kids a lot, but they're big now. Feel free
to find them and interrogate them in some subtle fashion if you want to (and if
you can find them)--Marty and Holly will be there.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/19/2004 6:13:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
was well on my way down the unschooling path, and you go and post this! LOL I
can see I'm going to need you folks here to keep me on my toes and keep me
from getting complacent! Thanks!
Sang
One parent is worth a thousand teachers-ancient Chinese proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
> Slightly Modified Quote Begins:Boy, Robyn... Here I was, getting all comfortable (and slightly smug) that I
>
> I am going to look at some semantics here... because of a larger issue of
> how we as Unschoolers are beyond a lot of modern parenting and its
> discourses.
>
> <<snip>>
>
> Insomniac Musings
was well on my way down the unschooling path, and you go and post this! LOL I
can see I'm going to need you folks here to keep me on my toes and keep me
from getting complacent! Thanks!
Sang
One parent is worth a thousand teachers-ancient Chinese proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]