Ali Kat

I hope that I am coherant! If not, please forgive me - I spent a full day at Geauga Lake Amusement Park...

I have been thinking a lot about the entire "unschooling thing" - particularly from a "Christian" perspective. A lot of the ideas have seemed scary from this type of viewpoint because they seem very opposite to a lot of "Christian ideals". But, being me, I have thought and pondered, tossed and turned, looked at then cast aside only to pick back up a LOT of my ideas and thoughts on homeschooling and Christianity.

Okay... basically I am changing a lot of my thoughts and ideas. Instead of taking what other people tell (or have told) me (which I never thought I did before but find in reality I have been too lazy to decide/research on my own), I am looking and figuring out for myself what I believe and how it all fits. (yippee) I am in no ways "there" or close to being "perfect" or "right" or whatever else you may want to term it; however, where I once thought that unschooling was hugely "non-Christian" in its approach it now seems to make even more sense from a "Christian" perspective.

One of the things that got me thinking this is the whole rules vs. principles thing. I will LOOSELY paraphrase some bible stuff here - I am trying to make sure I keep things in the right context, but am willing to be corrected! Basically, from what I understand, the Jewish people were given sets of laws and rules to govern their lives. These rules and laws were set up, in all actuality, because God knew that they would fail - which is why He sent Jesus. Jesus lived a life, and taught a life, based on principle - not rules. (i.e.His chat about "working" on the Sabbath) The rules didn't work - they couldn't. Humans just can not live by all the rules all the time. Principles are what mattered, which can be seen in the life of David. He was a horrible sinner and broke many laws/commandments/rules... Yet, God described him as a man after His (God's) own heart and He loved/blessed David very much...

Also, I got to thinking about punishment and raising children, etc... In the Bible, God is very patient and merciful with His children. He did not come out of the gate punishing and trying to hurt His beloved children or coerce them into some choice or path to take - He always gave them chances, advice, warnings, etc... WAY before punishing them, and even then... He gave them choices - and like the choices we give our children - there were consequences that the chooser had to deal with (good or bad), and just like WE want our children to choose certain things/paths, God wants us to make certain choices... YET He allows us to choose ultimately while loving us no matter what. I know there is the whole "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing that people use to justify corporal punishment, but I am still researching that idea and the context in which it is written. Many many times people can take things way out of context or twist scripture to fit their end... Additionally, from
what I know so far it is mentioned only in OT - not NT scripture (though not 100% sure if it makes any difference yet - just more digging on my part.)

The Bible also says that a parent should train their child in the way that he/she should go, and when he/she is old they will not depart from it... Isn't that what we are doing as unschoolers? We are training them in how to seek out answers to questions, to question the questions, to question the answers, to look at life critically and logically, and to be willing to grow and change through it all while taking responsibility for their actions - good/bad/indifferent.

Finally, if (as a Christian) I am supposed to be in this world but not of this world... then who the heck has the right to tell me how to raise my daughter? Why MUST my child learn to read by 6 years old, do algebra by 10, and so on... WHY????? I want to know WHY! Why am I (and ultimately my child) a complete failure if we don't? AND FURTHERMORE!! - if I *truly* believe that God has instilled in my daughter certain talents, gifts, potential, purposes, etc... then how/why should I stand in the way of that? Is it not my duty as a mother, human being, and "Christian" to allow her to discover these things and seek them with a vengence??? Not with guilt, worry, or burdens of OTHER PEOPLE's ideas of what she *should* do or be??

I don't own my child, her brain, her thoughts, or her very soul. I have been entrusted with a precious jewel, and my responsibility is to protect her and provide the tools she needs to show and reveal her inner beauty. *Who* my daughter is, I am realizing, is completely beyond my "control" - and the only thing my "control" will do to her is ultimately squash her true self and all that may embody. I want no part of doing that to her!

I must say, I have rediscovered joy in my daughter and in parenting since I have begun the excruciating process of "deschooling" and unschooling. While I used to question my every thought/move in a reference of guilt/shame/what would so-and-so think, I find that I am questioning things in a reference of "why" or "does it HAVE to be that way" or "why not" - or something along those lines... Not only has my heart suddenly become light, but I am deepening a relationship with my daughter that was only headed for disaster as the teen years quickly approach.

Thanks for letting me ramble... I hope it makes sense.

Ali


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/14/2004 12:15:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sweetgypsiedncer@... writes:

In the Bible, God is very patient and merciful with His children. He did
not come out of the gate punishing and trying to hurt His beloved children or
coerce them into some choice or path to take - He always gave them chances,
advice, warnings, etc... WAY before punishing them, and even then... He gave
them choices - and like the choices we give our children - there were
consequences that the chooser had to deal with (good or bad), and just like WE want
our children to choose certain things/paths, God wants us to make certain
choices... YET He allows us to choose ultimately while loving us no matter what.
<<<<<<

Atheist here, so understand where I'm coming from.

God said, "Don't eat the fruit." Period. Not: "If you do, such-and-such will
happen, here are your logical consequences." (and what's *logical* about the
punishment, anyway? And to throw in pain in childbirth to BOOT????)

God said, "Speak a zillion languages!" Not: "Build a temple, and I'll change
your languages so you can't communicate."

God said, "Kill your son; sacrifice him to me, *prove* yourself." HORRIBLE
thing to put a father through----but not as horrible as actually killing your
child!.

God said, "People have gotten mean; I'll send a flood---wipe 'em out." Not:
"If y'all keep this up, ...."

In the NT, God becomes all sweetness and light---only having ONE person
suffer instead of everyone----but it's his own baby. And mother Mary gets to
watch. Oh boy. OK, two people suffer.


I like the way you're reconciling your religion with unschooling. I think
you made some good points. But the 'choices and consequences' and being patient
and merciful. I don't buy that at all. (not that I buy any of it, mind you,
<g> but that God is nice to his kids is hardly demonstrated!)

I think as unschooling parents we can be a WHOLE lot more kind and merciful
to our kids than God was in the bible. A WHOLE lot.

~Kelly






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aimee

<<I find that I am questioning
things in a reference of "why" or "does it HAVE to be
that way" or "why not" - or something along those
lines... Not only has my heart suddenly
become light, but I am deepening a relationship with
my daughter that was only headed for disaster as the
teen years quickly approach.>>

Well, it all made perfect sense to *me*, lol.

I'm not Christian anymore, but I did go thru similar
thought processes (why, why not, who says? lol) about
the bible, unschooling, life, etc.

Man, that was about 8 years ago! Whoo hoo, how the
time flies. I felt free, too. That's the feeling I
wanted for my son, if I could provide it. So I just
started modeling those questions, in front of him, and
voila, he could think and make decisions for himself.
Or, more accurately, I didn't get in the way of those
questions and his own answers.

It's so simple, but feels like a miracle, doesn't it?

Peace
~Aimee

christy austin

Ok, I am new to this unschooling thing and as a
christian I was very encouraged by this message. My
son was in public school for K and 1st grade. He went
into K reading on a 2nd grade level and into 1st grade
reading on a 4th grade level. Didn't sink into my
dense head that maybe I knew how to teach this child,
he was just very smart. I mean who taught him to
read? So by second semester of 1st grade the school
was pressuring me to put him on ritalin. He was in
the hallway more than the classroom, or the pricipals
office or the corner. Needless to say we didn't
finish 1st grade in school. But dummy that I was, I
brought him home and schooled him exactly the same
way. Making both of us miserable. This has gone on
for 3 years (what can I say, I learn slow). I decided
that there has to be a better way to do this. We are
trying unschooling this year. Computer games, lots of
reading, hands on science experiments, field trips,
some curriculum if he is interested. HELP! I am
scared to death, guilty, worried. We have to test
every year through the school district and I guess I
am such a product of public school still that the
thought of him not doing well is daunting. This is
our first year learning like this and I am worried.
But I want my child to enjoy this process. I want to
sit and read with him all day if that is what we want
to do. I want him to be happy in what we are doing.
He is an amazing child with a tender, tender heart and
a quick mind and I am killing that the old way. Any
encouragement, advice or thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. P.S. This whole mess is made worse by
the fact that my 16 year old daughter has moved in
with her dad and I am now listening to all of his mess
because according to public schools she will have to
repeat the 10th grade. She is a responsible, mature,
beautiful girl but I am a crazy person because I
didn't want to push her to learn things that made her
miserable. Christy Austin
--- Ali Kat <sweetgypsiedncer@...> wrote:

>
> I hope that I am coherant! If not, please forgive
> me - I spent a full day at Geauga Lake Amusement
> Park...
>
> I have been thinking a lot about the entire
> "unschooling thing" - particularly from a
> "Christian" perspective. A lot of the ideas have
> seemed scary from this type of viewpoint because
> they seem very opposite to a lot of "Christian
> ideals". But, being me, I have thought and
> pondered, tossed and turned, looked at then cast
> aside only to pick back up a LOT of my ideas and
> thoughts on homeschooling and Christianity.
>
> Okay... basically I am changing a lot of my thoughts
> and ideas. Instead of taking what other people tell
> (or have told) me (which I never thought I did
> before but find in reality I have been too lazy to
> decide/research on my own), I am looking and
> figuring out for myself what I believe and how it
> all fits. (yippee) I am in no ways "there" or
> close to being "perfect" or "right" or whatever else
> you may want to term it; however, where I once
> thought that unschooling was hugely "non-Christian"
> in its approach it now seems to make even more sense
> from a "Christian" perspective.
>
> One of the things that got me thinking this is the
> whole rules vs. principles thing. I will LOOSELY
> paraphrase some bible stuff here - I am trying to
> make sure I keep things in the right context, but am
> willing to be corrected! Basically, from what I
> understand, the Jewish people were given sets of
> laws and rules to govern their lives. These rules
> and laws were set up, in all actuality, because God
> knew that they would fail - which is why He sent
> Jesus. Jesus lived a life, and taught a life, based
> on principle - not rules. (i.e.His chat about
> "working" on the Sabbath) The rules didn't work -
> they couldn't. Humans just can not live by all the
> rules all the time. Principles are what mattered,
> which can be seen in the life of David. He was a
> horrible sinner and broke many
> laws/commandments/rules... Yet, God described him
> as a man after His (God's) own heart and He
> loved/blessed David very much...
>
> Also, I got to thinking about punishment and raising
> children, etc... In the Bible, God is very patient
> and merciful with His children. He did not come out
> of the gate punishing and trying to hurt His beloved
> children or coerce them into some choice or path to
> take - He always gave them chances, advice,
> warnings, etc... WAY before punishing them, and even
> then... He gave them choices - and like the choices
> we give our children - there were consequences that
> the chooser had to deal with (good or bad), and just
> like WE want our children to choose certain
> things/paths, God wants us to make certain
> choices... YET He allows us to choose ultimately
> while loving us no matter what. I know there is the
> whole "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing that
> people use to justify corporal punishment, but I am
> still researching that idea and the context in which
> it is written. Many many times people can take
> things way out of context or twist scripture to fit
> their end... Additionally, from
> what I know so far it is mentioned only in OT - not
> NT scripture (though not 100% sure if it makes any
> difference yet - just more digging on my part.)
>
> The Bible also says that a parent should train their
> child in the way that he/she should go, and when
> he/she is old they will not depart from it... Isn't
> that what we are doing as unschoolers? We are
> training them in how to seek out answers to
> questions, to question the questions, to question
> the answers, to look at life critically and
> logically, and to be willing to grow and change
> through it all while taking responsibility for their
> actions - good/bad/indifferent.
>
> Finally, if (as a Christian) I am supposed to be in
> this world but not of this world... then who the
> heck has the right to tell me how to raise my
> daughter? Why MUST my child learn to read by 6
> years old, do algebra by 10, and so on... WHY?????
> I want to know WHY! Why am I (and ultimately my
> child) a complete failure if we don't? AND
> FURTHERMORE!! - if I *truly* believe that God has
> instilled in my daughter certain talents, gifts,
> potential, purposes, etc... then how/why should I
> stand in the way of that? Is it not my duty as a
> mother, human being, and "Christian" to allow her to
> discover these things and seek them with a
> vengence??? Not with guilt, worry, or burdens of
> OTHER PEOPLE's ideas of what she *should* do or be??
>
>
> I don't own my child, her brain, her thoughts, or
> her very soul. I have been entrusted with a
> precious jewel, and my responsibility is to protect
> her and provide the tools she needs to show and
> reveal her inner beauty. *Who* my daughter is, I am
> realizing, is completely beyond my "control" - and
> the only thing my "control" will do to her is
> ultimately squash her true self and all that may
> embody. I want no part of doing that to her!
>
> I must say, I have rediscovered joy in my daughter
> and in parenting since I have begun the excruciating
> process of "deschooling" and unschooling. While I
> used to question my every thought/move in a
> reference of guilt/shame/what would so-and-so think,
> I find that I am questioning things in a reference
> of "why" or "does it HAVE to be that way" or "why
> not" - or something along those lines... Not only
> has my heart suddenly become light, but I am
> deepening a relationship with my daughter that was
> only headed for disaster as the teen years quickly
> approach.
>
> Thanks for letting me ramble... I hope it makes
> sense.
>
> Ali
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

eriksmama2001

At what age are children no longer able to choose their actions and
accept the consequences such that they need commandments to tell them
what to do? This seems to be the catch in trying to accept that
children should be trusted to know what they need to learn but adults
are subject to rules from God.

Pat

--- In [email protected], christy austin
<romance9398@y...> wrote:
> Ok, I am new to this unschooling thing and as a
> christian I was very encouraged by this message. My
> son was in public school for K and 1st grade. He went
> into K reading on a 2nd grade level and into 1st grade
> reading on a 4th grade level. Didn't sink into my
> dense head that maybe I knew how to teach this child,
> he was just very smart. I mean who taught him to
> read? So by second semester of 1st grade the school
> was pressuring me to put him on ritalin. He was in
> the hallway more than the classroom, or the pricipals
> office or the corner. Needless to say we didn't
> finish 1st grade in school. But dummy that I was, I
> brought him home and schooled him exactly the same
> way. Making both of us miserable. This has gone on
> for 3 years (what can I say, I learn slow). I decided
> that there has to be a better way to do this. We are
> trying unschooling this year. Computer games, lots of
> reading, hands on science experiments, field trips,
> some curriculum if he is interested. HELP! I am
> scared to death, guilty, worried. We have to test
> every year through the school district and I guess I
> am such a product of public school still that the
> thought of him not doing well is daunting. This is
> our first year learning like this and I am worried.
> But I want my child to enjoy this process. I want to
> sit and read with him all day if that is what we want
> to do. I want him to be happy in what we are doing.
> He is an amazing child with a tender, tender heart and
> a quick mind and I am killing that the old way. Any
> encouragement, advice or thoughts would be greatly
> appreciated. P.S. This whole mess is made worse by
> the fact that my 16 year old daughter has moved in
> with her dad and I am now listening to all of his mess
> because according to public schools she will have to
> repeat the 10th grade. She is a responsible, mature,
> beautiful girl but I am a crazy person because I
> didn't want to push her to learn things that made her
> miserable. Christy Austin
> --- Ali Kat <sweetgypsiedncer@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I hope that I am coherant! If not, please forgive
> > me - I spent a full day at Geauga Lake Amusement
> > Park...
> >
> > I have been thinking a lot about the entire
> > "unschooling thing" - particularly from a
> > "Christian" perspective. A lot of the ideas have
> > seemed scary from this type of viewpoint because
> > they seem very opposite to a lot of "Christian
> > ideals". But, being me, I have thought and
> > pondered, tossed and turned, looked at then cast
> > aside only to pick back up a LOT of my ideas and
> > thoughts on homeschooling and Christianity.
> >
> > Okay... basically I am changing a lot of my thoughts
> > and ideas. Instead of taking what other people tell
> > (or have told) me (which I never thought I did
> > before but find in reality I have been too lazy to
> > decide/research on my own), I am looking and
> > figuring out for myself what I believe and how it
> > all fits. (yippee) I am in no ways "there" or
> > close to being "perfect" or "right" or whatever else
> > you may want to term it; however, where I once
> > thought that unschooling was hugely "non-Christian"
> > in its approach it now seems to make even more sense
> > from a "Christian" perspective.
> >
> > One of the things that got me thinking this is the
> > whole rules vs. principles thing. I will LOOSELY
> > paraphrase some bible stuff here - I am trying to
> > make sure I keep things in the right context, but am
> > willing to be corrected! Basically, from what I
> > understand, the Jewish people were given sets of
> > laws and rules to govern their lives. These rules
> > and laws were set up, in all actuality, because God
> > knew that they would fail - which is why He sent
> > Jesus. Jesus lived a life, and taught a life, based
> > on principle - not rules. (i.e.His chat about
> > "working" on the Sabbath) The rules didn't work -
> > they couldn't. Humans just can not live by all the
> > rules all the time. Principles are what mattered,
> > which can be seen in the life of David. He was a
> > horrible sinner and broke many
> > laws/commandments/rules... Yet, God described him
> > as a man after His (God's) own heart and He
> > loved/blessed David very much...
> >
> > Also, I got to thinking about punishment and raising
> > children, etc... In the Bible, God is very patient
> > and merciful with His children. He did not come out
> > of the gate punishing and trying to hurt His beloved
> > children or coerce them into some choice or path to
> > take - He always gave them chances, advice,
> > warnings, etc... WAY before punishing them, and even
> > then... He gave them choices - and like the choices
> > we give our children - there were consequences that
> > the chooser had to deal with (good or bad), and just
> > like WE want our children to choose certain
> > things/paths, God wants us to make certain
> > choices... YET He allows us to choose ultimately
> > while loving us no matter what. I know there is the
> > whole "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing that
> > people use to justify corporal punishment, but I am
> > still researching that idea and the context in which
> > it is written. Many many times people can take
> > things way out of context or twist scripture to fit
> > their end... Additionally, from
> > what I know so far it is mentioned only in OT - not
> > NT scripture (though not 100% sure if it makes any
> > difference yet - just more digging on my part.)
> >
> > The Bible also says that a parent should train their
> > child in the way that he/she should go, and when
> > he/she is old they will not depart from it... Isn't
> > that what we are doing as unschoolers? We are
> > training them in how to seek out answers to
> > questions, to question the questions, to question
> > the answers, to look at life critically and
> > logically, and to be willing to grow and change
> > through it all while taking responsibility for their
> > actions - good/bad/indifferent.
> >
> > Finally, if (as a Christian) I am supposed to be in
> > this world but not of this world... then who the
> > heck has the right to tell me how to raise my
> > daughter? Why MUST my child learn to read by 6
> > years old, do algebra by 10, and so on... WHY?????
> > I want to know WHY! Why am I (and ultimately my
> > child) a complete failure if we don't? AND
> > FURTHERMORE!! - if I *truly* believe that God has
> > instilled in my daughter certain talents, gifts,
> > potential, purposes, etc... then how/why should I
> > stand in the way of that? Is it not my duty as a
> > mother, human being, and "Christian" to allow her to
> > discover these things and seek them with a
> > vengence??? Not with guilt, worry, or burdens of
> > OTHER PEOPLE's ideas of what she *should* do or be??
> >
> >
> > I don't own my child, her brain, her thoughts, or
> > her very soul. I have been entrusted with a
> > precious jewel, and my responsibility is to protect
> > her and provide the tools she needs to show and
> > reveal her inner beauty. *Who* my daughter is, I am
> > realizing, is completely beyond my "control" - and
> > the only thing my "control" will do to her is
> > ultimately squash her true self and all that may
> > embody. I want no part of doing that to her!
> >
> > I must say, I have rediscovered joy in my daughter
> > and in parenting since I have begun the excruciating
> > process of "deschooling" and unschooling. While I
> > used to question my every thought/move in a
> > reference of guilt/shame/what would so-and-so think,
> > I find that I am questioning things in a reference
> > of "why" or "does it HAVE to be that way" or "why
> > not" - or something along those lines... Not only
> > has my heart suddenly become light, but I am
> > deepening a relationship with my daughter that was
> > only headed for disaster as the teen years quickly
> > approach.
> >
> > Thanks for letting me ramble... I hope it makes
> > sense.
> >
> > Ali
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

Kimberly

> I think as unschooling parents we can be a WHOLE lot more kind and
merciful
> to our kids than God was in the bible. A WHOLE lot.
>
> ~Kelly

I agree so very much with your posts. I personally find little in
the bible that supports a loving parent God image. The NT seemed to
change a little, as if God was learning. All and all, far too human
for me. LOL

In the end, I very much hope we are unschoolers can be far kinder
to our offspring.

sweetgypsiedncer@... -- I thank you for posting, it is very
hard being new. It does help a lot of people to make connections
between their faith and the way they parent. I think you will find
people that connect with you on this, and can help you make even
more positive connections. I read a book a few months ago, I believe
it was called Relaxed Homeschooling. It is very Christian and you
might like it.

Best wishes on this new path, not easy, but worth it!

Blessings,
Kimmy

Deb Lewis

I'm forwarding this message to the list.


From: Bill and Tia Banks <6banks@...>

--------------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Christy, I just wanted ot say hi and say I am in the same boat,
new to homeschooling and new to unschooling. I also have a child
who was in the hall, principals and corner-being issolated because he
didn't fit the mold as the other children, and the PS was forcing us
to our him on ritilan and other drugs, try them till they make him
sit like a vegetable idea! Well, he is 6 and I also have a 8 and 2
year old and one on the way. I love the idea of unschooling but have
very influencial fmaily members who don't "get it" and are
wondering when I will send them back so they can learn and be
social!!!!
> Frustrating. My husband is supportive, thank God. And at times
I am very worried of they are learning at all the things they need to
learn. It is hard when there are no others around you to be an
example or show you how they do it, and everyone else does it another
way. I like your thoughts on your child being so smart allready
before the PS was even introduced-----how much he had learned already
with you,,,,, I also took a while to SEE that in my children. My 8
year old was always advanced from K on and the schools couldn't
advance him to another grade, so he was "held" back and the teachers
would have to find things to stimulate him. When my 6 year old
entered PS and was always in trouble and nothing possitive out of
anyones mouth about him--and my child is so loving and sharing and
smart and kind--- and was being told if he wasn't medicated he
couldn't come back (the teacher was pregnant with 30 5 year old and
frustrated) I had had enough. Before I tried to
> conform to teh school, thinking they knew what was best, and put
him on medication for a month and he lost so much weight and hed no
appitiete and always sleepy, it was horrible, I took him off and took
both of them out of the school! Feel free to email me off the
list and good luck to you, this has been the best decision we have
made. Also would love any support and ideas and encouragement on
unschooling. Thanks and take care, Tia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gerard Westenberg

<<a child who was in the hall, principals and corner-being issolated because he
didn't fit the mold as the other children, and the PS was forcing us to our him on ritilan and other drugs, try them till they make him
sit like a vegetable idea!>>

A good anti Ritalin book that I am reading at the moment is "Teaching the Restless" by Chris Mercogliano from the Albany Free School.

He writes the stories of several children who came to the school diagnosed as ADHD, etc. The first thing the school says is to get the kids off Ritalin. Mercogliano then details experience and research to show how these children are not "problems" when taken off the drugs and given choice and freedom in a caring environment.

The latter sounds like usnchooling to me. Its a good book ,imo, to put in the hands of those scoffing doubters, who believe unschooling won' t "work with kids with problems". If the freedom of choice in a caring environment works in a Free School, how much more so in a family, wihich has none of the school limitations. That sort of idea....Leonie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/14/2004 3:29:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
kontessa_rose@... writes:
The NT seemed to
change a little, as if God was learning. All and all, far too human
for me. LOL
===========

Well the New Testament was written thousands of years later and humans had
evolved.
;-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Hill

** A good anti Ritalin book that I am reading at the moment is "Teaching
the Restless" by Chris Mercogliano from the Albany Free School.**

I wanted to add that we don't ask visual learners to learn with their
hands over their eyes, and we don't ask auditory learners to learn with
their hands over their ears, but in schools we tell kinesthetic learners
to "sit still".

Betsy

Dawn Adams

>the PS was forcing us to our him on ritilan and other drugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just a small point. A PS can't force a kid to go on ritilan as it takes an MD to prescribe...Not that they can't apply terrific and unfair pressure. But parents need to know their own power. Obviously this one did as she ditched the school! :)

Dawn (in NS)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

A good anti Ritalin book that I am reading at the moment is "Teaching the Restless" by Chris Mercogliano from the Albany Free School.
========

Another really good book is _The Explosive Child_ by Ross Greene. Other than the whole psychiatrists-are-so-important parts, he offers really good suggestions on how to parent high-need children by letting go of controls and arbitrary rules instead of adding more. I actually liked the recommendations of this book much better than those in Dr. Sears's ADD book, which really ticked me off (and I usually like his stuff).

<>--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

Marjorie Kirk

A good anti Ritalin book that I am reading at the moment is "Teaching the
Restless" by Chris Mercogliano from the Albany Free School.
========

Another really good book is _The Explosive Child_ by Ross Greene. Other than
the whole psychiatrists-are-so-important parts, he offers really good
suggestions on how to parent high-need children by letting go of controls
and arbitrary rules instead of adding more. I actually liked the
recommendations of this book much better than those in Dr. Sears's ADD book,
which really ticked me off (and I usually like his stuff).

**************************************

Another good book is _The Myth of A.D.D. by Thomas Armstrong. Although he
does recommend limiting "screen time" (my quotation marks) and junk food,
most of his ideas are how to work with the kids' strengths instead of making
them fit into some preconceived idea of what they should be.


Marjorie

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/15/04 5:35:34 AM, Wishbone@... writes:

<< A PS can't force a kid to go on ritilan as it takes an MD to
prescribe...Not that they can't apply terrific and unfair pressure. But parents need to
know their own power. >>

Maybe in Canada.
Yes it takes a prescription, but a doctor can be found.
The terrific and unfair pressure can (and has in some cases) involved "Do it
or put him in expensive private school," or "Do it or lost custody." Judges
can say "do it" and that's pretty much force.

Sandra

christy austin

I will never forget the day his first grade teacher
told me that if I didn't put him on ritalin his school
years would be hell because there were too many
teachers at that school that like to paddle. That was
the day I said, "Thank you, you have helped me make a
hard decision." And we have been home since. They
can't force it, but they can put the pressure on.
Christy

>
> In a message dated 8/15/04 5:35:34 AM,
> Wishbone@... writes:
>
> << A PS can't force a kid to go on ritilan as it
> takes an MD to
> prescribe...Not that they can't apply terrific and
> unfair pressure. But parents need to
> know their own power. >>
>
> Maybe in Canada.
> Yes it takes a prescription, but a doctor can be
> found.
> The terrific and unfair pressure can (and has in
> some cases) involved "Do it
> or put him in expensive private school," or "Do it
> or lost custody." Judges
> can say "do it" and that's pretty much force.
>
> Sandra
>




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christy austin

Thank you for all of the book suggestions. I will be
looking for them and reading them. Christy
--- Marjorie Kirk <mkirk@...> wrote:

>
>
> A good anti Ritalin book that I am reading at the
> moment is "Teaching the
> Restless" by Chris Mercogliano from the Albany Free
> School.
> ========
>
> Another really good book is _The Explosive Child_ by
> Ross Greene. Other than
> the whole psychiatrists-are-so-important parts, he
> offers really good
> suggestions on how to parent high-need children by
> letting go of controls
> and arbitrary rules instead of adding more. I
> actually liked the
> recommendations of this book much better than those
> in Dr. Sears's ADD book,
> which really ticked me off (and I usually like his
> stuff).
>
> **************************************
>
> Another good book is _The Myth of A.D.D. by Thomas
> Armstrong. Although he
> does recommend limiting "screen time" (my quotation
> marks) and junk food,
> most of his ideas are how to work with the kids'
> strengths instead of making
> them fit into some preconceived idea of what they
> should be.
>
>
> Marjorie
>
>
>


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Bill and Tia Banks

They had the doctor, school physcologist, principal and teacher telling me, without even knowing my child that he would disrupte the other children and would not be allowed beack in the school. I said are your expelling him? They said no, just having him take some time off until his medication and dosage is straightened out. This was in K. Then they asked me, the principal said, dont you disipline him--you let him act however he wants at home, that is why he is like this!!! I was so upset, they were so mean. Glad to be safe and out of there. Tia

christy austin <romance9398@...> wrote:I will never forget the day his first grade teacher
told me that if I didn't put him on ritalin his school
years would be hell because there were too many
teachers at that school that like to paddle. That was
the day I said, "Thank you, you have helped me make a
hard decision." And we have been home since. They
can't force it, but they can put the pressure on.
Christy

>
> In a message dated 8/15/04 5:35:34 AM,
> Wishbone@... writes:
>
> << A PS can't force a kid to go on ritilan as it
> takes an MD to
> prescribe...Not that they can't apply terrific and
> unfair pressure. But parents need to
> know their own power. >>
>
> Maybe in Canada.
> Yes it takes a prescription, but a doctor can be
> found.
> The terrific and unfair pressure can (and has in
> some cases) involved "Do it
> or put him in expensive private school," or "Do it
> or lost custody." Judges
> can say "do it" and that's pretty much force.
>
> Sandra
>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

christy austin

Tia, I know how you felt. It broke my heart that no
once else could see how special and talented my child
is. He can be a handful but he has learned so much
self control since we came home. And I think alot of
it is that we give him choices instead of pushing all
the time. He is proud of the progress he has made. I
truly think alot of his progress is just maturity and
the school wasn't willing to wait.
--- Bill and Tia Banks <6banks@...> wrote:

>





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Taunya Hedbor

> It does help a lot of people to make connections
> between their faith and the way they parent. I think you will find
> people that connect with you on this, and can help you make even
> more positive connections. I read a book a few months ago, I
believe
> it was called Relaxed Homeschooling. It is very Christian and you
> might like it.
>

I have been reading the last weeks worth of posts and come across a
couple of comments about Christianity and unschooling. I am not a
Christian - but a good friend of mine who homeschools is.

One thing I have been very impressed by - in my readings here - is
the emphasis on putting out the message of unschooling. I have been
friends with this woman and her family for many years - and have
tried to offer paltry advice to help her with her issues and her
family. I believe MOST of them stem from her rather strict school
at home mentality and she could have so much more joy in her life
with her children if she was able to reconcile unschooling with her
Christian beliefs.

In any case - my attempts have included advising her to try and
think about her kid's future and invite him to explore the world
from the perspective of what he would like to do (he's a teenager)
and loaning her a copy of the Teenage Revolution Handbook - which
she found full of "rebeliousness". Is there a way to reconcile
unschooling to a family who is so restrictive that they actually go
through and delete scenes from movies to bring them to a G rating?
Is there a way to help start them down the path? I know they are
all very unhappy because of the conflict in their home, and I can't
help but think that unschooling does seem to have a lot of what I
always *thought* were the ideals of Christianity...

I realize they are a LONG way away from any sort of unschooling
frame of mind but perhaps there are books I can recommend, or a
group they would find ideas they could more easily swallow... Baby
steps you know? I tried to find the book recommended in the post I
quoted, but I could not find it in my library system catalogue or on
Amazon...

Thanks,

Taunya

pam sorooshian

On Aug 16, 2004, at 8:28 AM, Taunya Hedbor wrote:

> I realize they are a LONG way away from any sort of unschooling
> frame of mind but perhaps there are books I can recommend, or a
> group they would find ideas they could more easily swallow..

<http://www.christianunschooling.org/>

And the book is "Christian Unschooling: Growing Your Children in the
Freedom of Christ " by Teri Brown and Elissa Wahl.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Elizabeth Roberts

Six weeks after we moved...when Sarah was dealing with
having moved twice in 12 months, two new siblings in
15 months, starting school, changing school, going
from a half-day program to full-day program....and
while on Adderall XR...that she had Asperger's, ODD,
and OCD in addition to her articulation delay and
possible dyslexia. She wasn't eating or sleeping, and
had lost 5lbs that she didn't have to lose. This was
KINDERGARTEN.

She once went 72 hours without sleeping because of the
rebound effect. I called the school to say she wasn't
coming in because she hadn't slept, they said to give
her the Adderall and bring her to school or they'd
have me arrested for her truancy. If she was acting up
from not sleeping, they'd have the nurse call me to
bring her home. Needless to say, they didn't call
(only later did I find out she WAS acting up and
they'd had to physically restrain her) and sent her
home on the bus, she didn't sleep that night either,
and the same thing happened that third day.

When we refused to have her tested for Asperger's,
ODD, and OCD and took her off the Adderall they called
DSS claiming educational and mental health neglect
which led to a two year nightmare for my family.

Elizabeth






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