More Waldorf Bashing
jennefer harper
I am currently researching Waldorf Steiner's
philosophy on education (& other philosophies) and was
suprised to find out (by mostly lurking on a Waldorf
Homeschooling list) that according to the Waldorf
approach, there is a *right way* to learn the
alphabet, and it's not in ABC order! Apparently, they
are learned in groups by the order we, as
humans/babies, learn the sounds.
This is only one way, that has yet to be mentioned,
that I find the Waldorf education style controlling.
I also do not like the fact that until an acceptable
age, you are supposed to divert a child's interest
away from reading. And, certain books are better than
others. Preferably, picture books with no words, or
books with pictures that you can manually move around.
Also, I find it odd that children should learn form
drawing before they are encouraged to write their
name.
Technically, according to Steiner, a child is not
ready to learn something until a particular age. And,
there is definately a set order in which things ought
to be learned.
I think I as initially attracted to the Waldorf
schools for material reasons. The schools looked
nice! Wow, all that beautiful wooden kid sized stuff.
I had never seen anything like it in my public school
experience! But, I've come to realize that I have
some serious disagreements with Steiner's
philosophies.
And then, I discovered unschooling.
I'm really curious about how Waldorf Unschooling
works. Any comments about this?
-Jennefer
__________________________________
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Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
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philosophy on education (& other philosophies) and was
suprised to find out (by mostly lurking on a Waldorf
Homeschooling list) that according to the Waldorf
approach, there is a *right way* to learn the
alphabet, and it's not in ABC order! Apparently, they
are learned in groups by the order we, as
humans/babies, learn the sounds.
This is only one way, that has yet to be mentioned,
that I find the Waldorf education style controlling.
I also do not like the fact that until an acceptable
age, you are supposed to divert a child's interest
away from reading. And, certain books are better than
others. Preferably, picture books with no words, or
books with pictures that you can manually move around.
Also, I find it odd that children should learn form
drawing before they are encouraged to write their
name.
Technically, according to Steiner, a child is not
ready to learn something until a particular age. And,
there is definately a set order in which things ought
to be learned.
I think I as initially attracted to the Waldorf
schools for material reasons. The schools looked
nice! Wow, all that beautiful wooden kid sized stuff.
I had never seen anything like it in my public school
experience! But, I've come to realize that I have
some serious disagreements with Steiner's
philosophies.
And then, I discovered unschooling.
I'm really curious about how Waldorf Unschooling
works. Any comments about this?
-Jennefer
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
Kristina Kahney
Waldorf, just like anything else, has various layers to it. I've never visited an established school, but have been influenced by Waldorf and Steiner's work for the last several years with my young children. I have always felt that the way the schools were run are very dogmatic and controlling and would never consider sending my child to one.
That being said, one of my best friends is in the process of starting up a Waldorf school where we live (Houston TX area). When our daughters, both our oldest children, were 4 we decided to start a Waldorf-y co-op for our preschool aged kids. It was fun, relaxed and laid back. All of our children still watched TV and our boys had loves for SpiderMan, so we didn't have that dogma of an institution to deal with. We simply took what we liked best (the storytelling, painting, nature play mostly) and went with that.
Things changed, however, one year later when the group decided to hire a Waldorf trained teacher to come in with our children rather the moms. From day one the "rules" were more controlling and after a few months our family could no longer participate. My then 3 yo son desperately wanted to keep coming with his sister, and I didn't see what the big deal was and wanted him to keep coming and playing with his friends once a week. I was told that "I am the parent and I simply make the decision (that he couldn't come) and that's that". The teacher told me he wasn't handling the group interaction well, and I did not like being *told* how my kid handled a situation when I was right there with him!
Other things happened too..getting mini lectures for letting my kids pick out their clothes, and other various decisions that I have always allowed them to make. Waldorf philosophy feels like giving a young child too many choices can be overwhelming. Well, I kind of agree...to a certain extent...but certainly not to the controlling level they take it to. I only intervene when I can see my child is overwhelmed with too many choices, and I've never had a hard time seeing when they are.
Anyway, my point with all of this is this so called trained "expert" is the one that brought in all of these dumb (in my opinion) and controlling rules. What I like to do is read Steiner's developmental philosophies and take it into me and my family and use what I can. I have never read anything from Steiner that talks about keeping kids away from TV and media (he lived in Germany at the beginning of the century). This is something that has evolved from his work. I like going directly to the source, taking what feels right, and leaving the rest (good 'old LLL adage!). No dogma there, in my opinion.
AND...there has been plenty that felt right to me 2 years ago with my children that doesn't feel right to me now. That's okay! I give myself permission to change my mind ;) Also, when looking at anyone's philosophy, Steiner or anyone, you have to take into consideration the culture from which it came. In Germany, around the first World War, Steiner was desperately trying to create some aesthetic beauty for the children he was seeing who were in a very dark place. That's where much of the emphasis on aesthetics comes from (wooden toys, beautiful silk and cotton scarves, handmade dolls and toys, etc). These children, he felt, really needed this and he chose to develop a ccurriculumbased on his observation of spiritual development and unfolding and approach the subjects from an artistic and imaginative perspective.
Contrast this with Maria MMontessori around the same time, who was working with children in Italy. These children were immersed in much art and beauty in their culture and she chose to teach the children from a more logical and pragmatic way. Two very different cultures, and two very different educational philosophies.
The sad thing is that everyone seems to judge Waldorf based on the way the schools are run without knowing why they make these "rules". In order to really understand Waldorf (which I do not) you must study Anthroposophy, which is a vast philosophy that evolved out of Steiner's writings (there are links below to explain further). The weird thing is, Waldorf schools don't come out and tell parents this, so it looks like a bunch of arbitrary rules. The schools do actually have their own reasons (seeded in the Anthroposophic view of child development) for these rules, and although I completely disagree with them, think the schools would have greater success if they were more upfront with where they are coming from.
It's like they try and woo financially well-off parents (because the schools are very expensive) with the aesthetics and magical charm. Perhaps they can over look all of the seemingly "quirky" rules for awhile...but eventually families get blindsided with this whole other world of Anthroposophy. This is the main argument I read on the Waldorf Critic's site. The schools are simply not upfront, in my opinion, about where they are coming from, why they ask the families to make certain decisions, and why they are structured in the way that they are (with parents having little or no control). As a parent, I did not like having my control taken away in this manner, and it is why we chose not to continue participating in my friend's growing school, even though they did have a program for homeschoolers (up until a few weeks ago when they finally had enough full time students to not need us anymore...but that's a different story ;).
Sorry to be so long with all of this, I just felt like sharing my experiences with Waldorf, which are mixed. Like I said, there is much about Steiner's writings that I can resonate with but many things that we have done as a family I am now questioning whether I made the choices (wood toys, limited media, etc) because they were "Waldorf" or because I *really* felt like it was what was right for our family. Much, sadly, I'm realizing was because it was "Waldorf says..". The ironic thing is, that Steiner writes not to just believe his idea or philosophy, but put it into practice into your life and believe only the parts that feel right and seem true to you. A stark contrast from the dogma you feel in the Waldorf institutions stemming from his work.
I do know many dear friends who consider themselves "Waldorf-inspired", and a few who use Waldorf curriculum at home with their children. I think the Waldorf unschoolers, who I only know on-line, tend to have deeper understandings of Steiner and weave what they like into their unschooling lives. They tend to be guided by developmental principles that they believe in, from Steiner, while allowing their children to learn without a curriculum. It would probably, more accurately, be termed "relaxed Waldorf guided homeshooling", in my opinion.
Here are some links for more info:
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/julienne.htm (regarding waldorf unschooling)
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/anthro101.htm (regarding Anthroposophy)
http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/a/anthroposophy.html (more on anthropo.)
Anyway, there's my .02 about Waldorf. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming....:)
Kristina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That being said, one of my best friends is in the process of starting up a Waldorf school where we live (Houston TX area). When our daughters, both our oldest children, were 4 we decided to start a Waldorf-y co-op for our preschool aged kids. It was fun, relaxed and laid back. All of our children still watched TV and our boys had loves for SpiderMan, so we didn't have that dogma of an institution to deal with. We simply took what we liked best (the storytelling, painting, nature play mostly) and went with that.
Things changed, however, one year later when the group decided to hire a Waldorf trained teacher to come in with our children rather the moms. From day one the "rules" were more controlling and after a few months our family could no longer participate. My then 3 yo son desperately wanted to keep coming with his sister, and I didn't see what the big deal was and wanted him to keep coming and playing with his friends once a week. I was told that "I am the parent and I simply make the decision (that he couldn't come) and that's that". The teacher told me he wasn't handling the group interaction well, and I did not like being *told* how my kid handled a situation when I was right there with him!
Other things happened too..getting mini lectures for letting my kids pick out their clothes, and other various decisions that I have always allowed them to make. Waldorf philosophy feels like giving a young child too many choices can be overwhelming. Well, I kind of agree...to a certain extent...but certainly not to the controlling level they take it to. I only intervene when I can see my child is overwhelmed with too many choices, and I've never had a hard time seeing when they are.
Anyway, my point with all of this is this so called trained "expert" is the one that brought in all of these dumb (in my opinion) and controlling rules. What I like to do is read Steiner's developmental philosophies and take it into me and my family and use what I can. I have never read anything from Steiner that talks about keeping kids away from TV and media (he lived in Germany at the beginning of the century). This is something that has evolved from his work. I like going directly to the source, taking what feels right, and leaving the rest (good 'old LLL adage!). No dogma there, in my opinion.
AND...there has been plenty that felt right to me 2 years ago with my children that doesn't feel right to me now. That's okay! I give myself permission to change my mind ;) Also, when looking at anyone's philosophy, Steiner or anyone, you have to take into consideration the culture from which it came. In Germany, around the first World War, Steiner was desperately trying to create some aesthetic beauty for the children he was seeing who were in a very dark place. That's where much of the emphasis on aesthetics comes from (wooden toys, beautiful silk and cotton scarves, handmade dolls and toys, etc). These children, he felt, really needed this and he chose to develop a ccurriculumbased on his observation of spiritual development and unfolding and approach the subjects from an artistic and imaginative perspective.
Contrast this with Maria MMontessori around the same time, who was working with children in Italy. These children were immersed in much art and beauty in their culture and she chose to teach the children from a more logical and pragmatic way. Two very different cultures, and two very different educational philosophies.
The sad thing is that everyone seems to judge Waldorf based on the way the schools are run without knowing why they make these "rules". In order to really understand Waldorf (which I do not) you must study Anthroposophy, which is a vast philosophy that evolved out of Steiner's writings (there are links below to explain further). The weird thing is, Waldorf schools don't come out and tell parents this, so it looks like a bunch of arbitrary rules. The schools do actually have their own reasons (seeded in the Anthroposophic view of child development) for these rules, and although I completely disagree with them, think the schools would have greater success if they were more upfront with where they are coming from.
It's like they try and woo financially well-off parents (because the schools are very expensive) with the aesthetics and magical charm. Perhaps they can over look all of the seemingly "quirky" rules for awhile...but eventually families get blindsided with this whole other world of Anthroposophy. This is the main argument I read on the Waldorf Critic's site. The schools are simply not upfront, in my opinion, about where they are coming from, why they ask the families to make certain decisions, and why they are structured in the way that they are (with parents having little or no control). As a parent, I did not like having my control taken away in this manner, and it is why we chose not to continue participating in my friend's growing school, even though they did have a program for homeschoolers (up until a few weeks ago when they finally had enough full time students to not need us anymore...but that's a different story ;).
Sorry to be so long with all of this, I just felt like sharing my experiences with Waldorf, which are mixed. Like I said, there is much about Steiner's writings that I can resonate with but many things that we have done as a family I am now questioning whether I made the choices (wood toys, limited media, etc) because they were "Waldorf" or because I *really* felt like it was what was right for our family. Much, sadly, I'm realizing was because it was "Waldorf says..". The ironic thing is, that Steiner writes not to just believe his idea or philosophy, but put it into practice into your life and believe only the parts that feel right and seem true to you. A stark contrast from the dogma you feel in the Waldorf institutions stemming from his work.
I do know many dear friends who consider themselves "Waldorf-inspired", and a few who use Waldorf curriculum at home with their children. I think the Waldorf unschoolers, who I only know on-line, tend to have deeper understandings of Steiner and weave what they like into their unschooling lives. They tend to be guided by developmental principles that they believe in, from Steiner, while allowing their children to learn without a curriculum. It would probably, more accurately, be termed "relaxed Waldorf guided homeshooling", in my opinion.
Here are some links for more info:
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/julienne.htm (regarding waldorf unschooling)
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/anthro101.htm (regarding Anthroposophy)
http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/a/anthroposophy.html (more on anthropo.)
Anyway, there's my .02 about Waldorf. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming....:)
Kristina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/2004 12:08:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jenneferh2000@... writes:
I'm really curious about how Waldorf Unschooling
works. Any comments about this?>>>>
Sure.
Won't work.
Diametrically opposed. If you *believe* that a child learns what he needs
when he needs it, then how can you also *believe* that he may only use crayons
in a certain order, learn the alphabet in a certain order, be kept away from
the computer until *someone else* says it's time?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenneferh2000@... writes:
I'm really curious about how Waldorf Unschooling
works. Any comments about this?>>>>
Sure.
Won't work.
Diametrically opposed. If you *believe* that a child learns what he needs
when he needs it, then how can you also *believe* that he may only use crayons
in a certain order, learn the alphabet in a certain order, be kept away from
the computer until *someone else* says it's time?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
I suppose a parent COULD limit their children's
playtoys to all nature materials and such (Magic Cabin
Dolls http://www.magiccabindolls.com has lots of
waldorf inspired items). But other than that, I don't
see where there could be much cooperation between the
two styles. An unschooler wouldn't discourage a child
who is ready to read, whether they are 4 years old or
12. Nor tell them that they can't paint with the black
paint, or could only use certain colors in a specific
order.
Elizabeth
--- jennefer harper <jenneferh2000@...> wrote:
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playtoys to all nature materials and such (Magic Cabin
Dolls http://www.magiccabindolls.com has lots of
waldorf inspired items). But other than that, I don't
see where there could be much cooperation between the
two styles. An unschooler wouldn't discourage a child
who is ready to read, whether they are 4 years old or
12. Nor tell them that they can't paint with the black
paint, or could only use certain colors in a specific
order.
Elizabeth
--- jennefer harper <jenneferh2000@...> wrote:
> I am currently researching Waldorf Steiner's__________________________________________________
> philosophy on education (& other philosophies) and
> was
> suprised to find out (by mostly lurking on a Waldorf
> Homeschooling list) that according to the Waldorf
> approach, there is a *right way* to learn the
> alphabet, and it's not in ABC order! Apparently,
> they
> are learned in groups by the order we, as
> humans/babies, learn the sounds.
>
> This is only one way, that has yet to be mentioned,
> that I find the Waldorf education style controlling.
>
> I also do not like the fact that until an acceptable
> age, you are supposed to divert a child's interest
> away from reading. And, certain books are better
> than
> others. Preferably, picture books with no words, or
> books with pictures that you can manually move
> around.
> Also, I find it odd that children should learn form
> drawing before they are encouraged to write their
> name.
>
> Technically, according to Steiner, a child is not
> ready to learn something until a particular age.
> And,
> there is definately a set order in which things
> ought
> to be learned.
>
> I think I as initially attracted to the Waldorf
> schools for material reasons. The schools looked
> nice! Wow, all that beautiful wooden kid sized
> stuff.
> I had never seen anything like it in my public
> school
> experience! But, I've come to realize that I have
> some serious disagreements with Steiner's
> philosophies.
>
> And then, I discovered unschooling.
>
> I'm really curious about how Waldorf Unschooling
> works. Any comments about this?
>
> -Jennefer
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download
> now.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
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pam sorooshian
<http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicEducationMaterial/youthinternal>
Some great materials - gorgeous pictures, lots of info - everything you
ever wanted to know about the Olympics.
Some great materials - gorgeous pictures, lots of info - everything you
ever wanted to know about the Olympics.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/04 4:03:57 AM, kkahney@... writes:
<< I have never read anything from Steiner that talks about keeping kids away
from TV and media (he lived in Germany at the beginning of the century). >>
If he wrote down or lectured about his concerns about the silent movies he
saw (I quoted a secondary source, I think, yesterday) that's sufficient
documentation.
-=- I like going directly to the source, taking what feels right, and leaving
the rest (good 'old LLL adage!). -=-
Yeah. Some people want the full set of beliefs, they pay their money, they
put them all on like armor. No messy thinking required. <g>
-=-These children, he felt, really needed this and he chose to develop a
curriculum based on his observation of spiritual development and unfolding and
approach the subjects from an artistic and imaginative perspective.
-=-Contrast this with Maria Montessori around the same time, who was working
with children in Italy. These children were immersed in much art and beauty in
their culture and she chose to teach the children from a more logical and
pragmatic way. Two very different cultures, and two very different educational
philosophies.
-=-
Excellent point.
And if my choice was public school or Waldorf, I might take Waldorf.
But since my choice is unschooling or Waldorf, Waldorf is left in the
ethereal dust.
I'm quoting this in case anyone missed it. Good info. Thanks, Kristina!:
Steiner writes not to just believe his idea or philosophy, but put it into
practice into your life and believe only the parts that feel right and seem true
to you. A stark contrast from the dogma you feel in the Waldorf institutions
stemming from his work.
I do know many dear friends who consider themselves "Waldorf-inspired", and a
few who use Waldorf curriculum at home with their children. I think the
Waldorf unschoolers, who I only know on-line, tend to have deeper understandings of
Steiner and weave what they like into their unschooling lives. They tend to
be guided by developmental principles that they believe in, from Steiner, while
allowing their children to learn without a curriculum. It would probably,
more accurately, be termed "relaxed Waldorf guided homeshooling", in my opinion.
Here are some links for more info:
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/julienne.htm (regarding waldorf
unschooling)
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/anthro101.htm (regarding Anthroposophy)
http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/a/anthroposophy.html (more on
anthropo.)
<< I have never read anything from Steiner that talks about keeping kids away
from TV and media (he lived in Germany at the beginning of the century). >>
If he wrote down or lectured about his concerns about the silent movies he
saw (I quoted a secondary source, I think, yesterday) that's sufficient
documentation.
-=- I like going directly to the source, taking what feels right, and leaving
the rest (good 'old LLL adage!). -=-
Yeah. Some people want the full set of beliefs, they pay their money, they
put them all on like armor. No messy thinking required. <g>
-=-These children, he felt, really needed this and he chose to develop a
curriculum based on his observation of spiritual development and unfolding and
approach the subjects from an artistic and imaginative perspective.
-=-Contrast this with Maria Montessori around the same time, who was working
with children in Italy. These children were immersed in much art and beauty in
their culture and she chose to teach the children from a more logical and
pragmatic way. Two very different cultures, and two very different educational
philosophies.
-=-
Excellent point.
And if my choice was public school or Waldorf, I might take Waldorf.
But since my choice is unschooling or Waldorf, Waldorf is left in the
ethereal dust.
I'm quoting this in case anyone missed it. Good info. Thanks, Kristina!:
Steiner writes not to just believe his idea or philosophy, but put it into
practice into your life and believe only the parts that feel right and seem true
to you. A stark contrast from the dogma you feel in the Waldorf institutions
stemming from his work.
I do know many dear friends who consider themselves "Waldorf-inspired", and a
few who use Waldorf curriculum at home with their children. I think the
Waldorf unschoolers, who I only know on-line, tend to have deeper understandings of
Steiner and weave what they like into their unschooling lives. They tend to
be guided by developmental principles that they believe in, from Steiner, while
allowing their children to learn without a curriculum. It would probably,
more accurately, be termed "relaxed Waldorf guided homeshooling", in my opinion.
Here are some links for more info:
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/julienne.htm (regarding waldorf
unschooling)
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/anthro101.htm (regarding Anthroposophy)
http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/a/anthroposophy.html (more on
anthropo.)
Kristina Kahney
SandraDodd@... wrote:
And if my choice was public school or Waldorf, I might take Waldorf.
But since my choice is unschooling or Waldorf, Waldorf is left in the
ethereal dust.
*********************************************
Hehe...I liked this:) I'm probably a little over sensitive when it comes to this Waldorf thread, coming from a Waldorf community, and having many (actually, most of our homeschool friends) using many Waldorf methods in thier homeschooling.
Like I said earlier, I never *really* fit in with our community, with people always making comments about how much "freedom" I "allow" my children. This has never made sense to me, and I just always felt like I didn't fit. I don't know ANY real life unschoolers and unschooling has always been an abstract idea to me, having never really seen it in practice.
So, the more I'm learning about unschooling and understanding the true freedom that comes with it, I can see how an experienced unschooler would leave "Waldorf in the ethereal dust"!
If I had to choose between Waldorf and public schools, I don't know...I'd probably send my kids to public school. I have big philosophical issues with the kind of money Waldorf schools charge and the way the schools are run (all of the control issues with families and kids that have been brought up). At least in public school you can bitch without paying $10,000 per year per kid.
Kristina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And if my choice was public school or Waldorf, I might take Waldorf.
But since my choice is unschooling or Waldorf, Waldorf is left in the
ethereal dust.
*********************************************
Hehe...I liked this:) I'm probably a little over sensitive when it comes to this Waldorf thread, coming from a Waldorf community, and having many (actually, most of our homeschool friends) using many Waldorf methods in thier homeschooling.
Like I said earlier, I never *really* fit in with our community, with people always making comments about how much "freedom" I "allow" my children. This has never made sense to me, and I just always felt like I didn't fit. I don't know ANY real life unschoolers and unschooling has always been an abstract idea to me, having never really seen it in practice.
So, the more I'm learning about unschooling and understanding the true freedom that comes with it, I can see how an experienced unschooler would leave "Waldorf in the ethereal dust"!
If I had to choose between Waldorf and public schools, I don't know...I'd probably send my kids to public school. I have big philosophical issues with the kind of money Waldorf schools charge and the way the schools are run (all of the control issues with families and kids that have been brought up). At least in public school you can bitch without paying $10,000 per year per kid.
Kristina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Aug 9, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Kristina Kahney wrote:
have a friend who put her child into our local Waldorf school - pulled
him out after two years and put him in a private school. Pulled him out
of that after 2 years and put him into our local public school. LOVED
it - felt very 'stupid' for not even considering public school before
that. Our local public school still has a lot of art and music and
other cool stuff.
It also has standardized testing and "Reading RECOVERY" for 6 year olds
and lots of other stuff I think is horrid. I'm glad we're out. But it
would be my first choice over all the private options in this area.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> If I had to choose between Waldorf and public schools, I don'tI would - our public schools have a lot of freedom, lots of options. I
> know...I'd probably send my kids to public school.
have a friend who put her child into our local Waldorf school - pulled
him out after two years and put him in a private school. Pulled him out
of that after 2 years and put him into our local public school. LOVED
it - felt very 'stupid' for not even considering public school before
that. Our local public school still has a lot of art and music and
other cool stuff.
It also has standardized testing and "Reading RECOVERY" for 6 year olds
and lots of other stuff I think is horrid. I'm glad we're out. But it
would be my first choice over all the private options in this area.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/04 11:51:53 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< Our local public school still has a lot of art and music and
other cool stuff. >>
Ours are lagging there, and music is exactly what I was thinking.
But I don't have to, so tra la!
Sandra
<< Our local public school still has a lot of art and music and
other cool stuff. >>
Ours are lagging there, and music is exactly what I was thinking.
But I don't have to, so tra la!
Sandra