Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Gift questions
Heather Hall
I just flat out asked people not to bring gifts. My kids get overwhelmed
and want to quit opening gifts after the first or second one anyway. Plus
their b-days are both sandwiching Christmas, where they *really* get
overwhelmed. They have more fun visiting with friends and family than
opening gifts any way.
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
and want to quit opening gifts after the first or second one anyway. Plus
their b-days are both sandwiching Christmas, where they *really* get
overwhelmed. They have more fun visiting with friends and family than
opening gifts any way.
> Message: 22--
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:12:12 -0500
> From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
> Subject: Re: Intro/Gift Questions
>
> <<<<<I've been told that I'm
>> being too much of a control freak by asking the grandparents, aunts and
>> uncles to limit toys. >>>>>>
>
> I certainly understand feeling overwhelmed by the consumerism of our
> culture, with every occassion being a time to get more and more stuff.
>
> However, it is important to remember that your children may not (and at
> their ages, probably don't) share your beliefs. Things to consider:
>
> 1) Even though it may feel to you that your home is overflowing with toys
> and stuff. For that child, it is the only birthday they will have for a
> tremendously long time.
>
> 2) I would never tell someone what kind of gift to give but you might ask
> your relatives if they have considered giving activities rather than things
> (perhaps a home-made coupon book with pages for fishing with grandpa or
> making cookies with grandma <my kids love these>) or perhaps memberships at
> the zoo or children's museum, movie tickets, etc..
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Julie S.
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
pam sorooshian
On Jul 17, 2004, at 6:49 PM, Heather Hall wrote:
watch kids open a big pile of gifts all at once - tear the paper off,
take a quick look, say a quick thank you, and then on to the next one
in the pile.
I went to a really nice party once - a gentle attachment-parenting mom
I admired a lot. She had her son open gifts as people arrived (which
wasn't all at once - spread out throughout the afternoon). Each
person's gift was opened as if it was the only one - he thanked them,
spent a little time with them, etc.
I also like to give gifts when I happen to find something that I think
the person will like and I admit I find it really hard to buy gifts
when it is an obligation.
Which leads me to my next post......
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I just flat out asked people not to bring gifts. My kids getI have to agree that I've always found it kind of uncomfortable to
> overwhelmed
> and want to quit opening gifts after the first or second one anyway.
> Plus
> their b-days are both sandwiching Christmas, where they *really* get
> overwhelmed. They have more fun visiting with friends and family than
> opening gifts any way.
watch kids open a big pile of gifts all at once - tear the paper off,
take a quick look, say a quick thank you, and then on to the next one
in the pile.
I went to a really nice party once - a gentle attachment-parenting mom
I admired a lot. She had her son open gifts as people arrived (which
wasn't all at once - spread out throughout the afternoon). Each
person's gift was opened as if it was the only one - he thanked them,
spent a little time with them, etc.
I also like to give gifts when I happen to find something that I think
the person will like and I admit I find it really hard to buy gifts
when it is an obligation.
Which leads me to my next post......
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
My next post.....
I've read just a few pages of a book that I think was recommended by
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.
Well - the author of this book talks about how some people have the
same reaction to things we tell ourselves to do. This rings very true
to me. For example, I look at the dirty dishes and I'm really planning
to wash them, and I say to myself, "You should wash those, get them
done now, they'll just be harder to do later, now don't procrastinate."
My response to MySELF is really similar to my reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
I've read just a few pages of a book that I think was recommended by
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.
Well - the author of this book talks about how some people have the
same reaction to things we tell ourselves to do. This rings very true
to me. For example, I look at the dirty dishes and I'm really planning
to wash them, and I say to myself, "You should wash those, get them
done now, they'll just be harder to do later, now don't procrastinate."
My response to MySELF is really similar to my reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
averyschmidt
> I went to a really nice party once - a gentle attachment-parentingmom
> I admired a lot. She had her son open gifts as people arrived(which
> wasn't all at once - spread out throughout the afternoon). Eachthem,
> person's gift was opened as if it was the only one - he thanked
> spent a little time with them, etc.I've done this at my 5yo's last two birthday parties, and I highly
recommend it. It makes so much sense to me that I'm surprised it's
not the way it's generally done!
Patti
Robyn Coburn
<<<I've read just a few pages of a book that I think was recommended by
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.>>>
This was my biggest source of frustration and rage for my adolescence,
supplanting being spanked by Mum when I was smaller as the biggest source.
It still drives me absolutely crazy when dh does it to me. I really try to
not do it to Jayn.
What was the book please?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.>>>
This was my biggest source of frustration and rage for my adolescence,
supplanting being spanked by Mum when I was smaller as the biggest source.
It still drives me absolutely crazy when dh does it to me. I really try to
not do it to Jayn.
What was the book please?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004
pam sorooshian
On Jul 17, 2004, at 9:50 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
Semmelroth
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> It still drives me absolutely crazy when dh does it to me. I reallyThe Anger Habit: Proven Principles to Calm the Stormy Mind by Carl
> try to
> not do it to Jayn.
>
> What was the book please?
Semmelroth
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Krisula Moyer
Oohh I know just what you mean. What is the book called again? My son just
glares at me when I do this to him, sometimes there is a little lecture
about if I was patient enough to wait I might find out he was already going
to do ...whatever. My 3yo says Mommy don't tell me that. And yes, it bugs
me when I do it to myself.
Someone suggested once that changing all your shoulds to coulds can be
helpful. "Hmm I could do those dishes." sounds more like a choice than an
order. But once I started doing it, the trick wore off or something and I
went back to the same annoyed feeling. It's so strange.
O and Pam, I saw Mandy Patinkin on Broadway in Evita on my (13th?) birthday.
He was fabulous!
-Krisula
Original post-------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:07:37 -0700
From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Subject: contrariness
My next post.....
I've read just a few pages of a book that I think was recommended by
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.
Well - the author of this book talks about how some people have the
same reaction to things we tell ourselves to do. This rings very true
to me. For example, I look at the dirty dishes and I'm really planning
to wash them, and I say to myself, "You should wash those, get them
done now, they'll just be harder to do later, now don't procrastinate."
My response to MySELF is really similar to my reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
glares at me when I do this to him, sometimes there is a little lecture
about if I was patient enough to wait I might find out he was already going
to do ...whatever. My 3yo says Mommy don't tell me that. And yes, it bugs
me when I do it to myself.
Someone suggested once that changing all your shoulds to coulds can be
helpful. "Hmm I could do those dishes." sounds more like a choice than an
order. But once I started doing it, the trick wore off or something and I
went back to the same annoyed feeling. It's so strange.
O and Pam, I saw Mandy Patinkin on Broadway in Evita on my (13th?) birthday.
He was fabulous!
-Krisula
Original post-------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 21:07:37 -0700
From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Subject: contrariness
My next post.....
I've read just a few pages of a book that I think was recommended by
someone here. And it has already really given me some major insight. It
talks about how much we usually don't like it when somebody tells us to
do something we were just about to do. For example, we spill something
and we're reaching for some paper towels to clean it up and our spouse
or parent says, "Use those paper towels to clean that up." Makes many
of us NOT want to do it.
Well - the author of this book talks about how some people have the
same reaction to things we tell ourselves to do. This rings very true
to me. For example, I look at the dirty dishes and I'm really planning
to wash them, and I say to myself, "You should wash those, get them
done now, they'll just be harder to do later, now don't procrastinate."
My response to MySELF is really similar to my reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Marti G
What an interesting thought. My mom did this to me, and I've worked
hard to NOT do it to my girls. But I've never thought about the fact
that I do it to *myself*... and I certainly do. Thanks for the
insight. This gives me food for thought!
--
Marti G
Wife to Chris, Mom to four girls
Smithsburg MD
hard to NOT do it to my girls. But I've never thought about the fact
that I do it to *myself*... and I certainly do. Thanks for the
insight. This gives me food for thought!
--
Marti G
Wife to Chris, Mom to four girls
Smithsburg MD
----- Original Message -----
From pam sorooshian:
My response to MySELF is really similar to my reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just about to do
that anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things feel like I'm
being ordered around and everything done that way feels like an
obligation.
catherine aceto
We've always done it that way as well (dd is 6.5). I'm also surprised that it isn't universal.
-Cat
-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: averyschmidt
I've done this [opened presents as people arrive] at my 5yo's last two birthday parties, and I highly recommend it. It makes so much sense to me that I'm surprised it's not the way it's generally done!
Patti
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/18/2004 8:20:50 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
aceto3@... writes:
We've always done it that way as well (dd is 6.5). I'm also surprised that it
isn't universal.
---------
With adult parties we go to it's often done that way. If someone brings a
gift its either unwrapped anyway, or maybe it's opened during the "hi, I'm glad
you're here" moment.
We've usually waited so the other kids can see, because they like to see
gifts opened. If someone has to leave early, we'll do the gift opening before
they go, and open theirs first.
It's not purely a gift thing, but in our old house we had a covered patio in
back, and I figured out the easiest way to stage places for cake or games or
gifts was to move kids back and forth from one location to another, especially
if there were extra adults. Kids were drawn to the new setup, and the old
room was cleared and re-set, to draw them back.
At the new house we still do that, with the library and the six-steps-down
front-room/kitchen. We can clean away the snack food while kids are upstairs
playing a game, and set up cake. Then while they're eating cake downstairs, we
rearrange from their game and set the gift-stage.
More peace, less confusion, clean-up is in four stages instead of one big
mess.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aceto3@... writes:
We've always done it that way as well (dd is 6.5). I'm also surprised that it
isn't universal.
---------
With adult parties we go to it's often done that way. If someone brings a
gift its either unwrapped anyway, or maybe it's opened during the "hi, I'm glad
you're here" moment.
We've usually waited so the other kids can see, because they like to see
gifts opened. If someone has to leave early, we'll do the gift opening before
they go, and open theirs first.
It's not purely a gift thing, but in our old house we had a covered patio in
back, and I figured out the easiest way to stage places for cake or games or
gifts was to move kids back and forth from one location to another, especially
if there were extra adults. Kids were drawn to the new setup, and the old
room was cleared and re-set, to draw them back.
At the new house we still do that, with the library and the six-steps-down
front-room/kitchen. We can clean away the snack food while kids are upstairs
playing a game, and set up cake. Then while they're eating cake downstairs, we
rearrange from their game and set the gift-stage.
More peace, less confusion, clean-up is in four stages instead of one big
mess.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aimee
<<My response to MySELF is really similar to my
reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just
about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things
feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like
an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with
it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we
might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I
seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I
suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
acknowledge. Commonly done in my childhood, too, and
I'm the queen of procrastination now.
There's a tape in your head, and it takes a while to
replace it with a tape of your own. Wow those dishes
are nasty. They're just going to get nastier. Should
I do them now, nasty, or later, nastier. Then just
choose. Neither one is good or bad, just nasty and
nastier. lol
Maybe one day you'll wash em right away, *most* of the
time, like I do now, or not. Doesn't matter. Except
to you (which is hard to remember!).
I'm getting better. ( I'm not dead, I think I'll go
for a walk! lol Anyway....)
Story:
We went to the Chinese Buffet last night for dinner.
It seems like every time I went up ( which is a lot of
times!) there was a woman with two or three (couldn't
tell, wasn't really paying attention at the time)
kids, not toddlers but a little older, and she kept
using the word can't. But in this sickly sweet, nice
as can be, tone of voice.
"You can't do that, here let me do that for you."
Or a similar refrain. I swear to god I thought I was
going to explode by the fifth or sixth time. It
seemed synchronicity by then, btw, I mean what are the
odds, every time I was up there, there she was? I
digress.
Of course by then there was a total melt down. That
kid was screaming from frustration. I could see it
clearly, because I had been thru that, had done that
for a while until I saw the error of my ways.
She thought she was being a "good mother". I would
even hazard a guess that she thought she was being a
fantastic mother, jumping up and down the entire time
to do this or that for her child(ren). She probably
has no clue. And I had no idea what to do or say.
I did that, my mother did that, she's doing that,
maybe her mother did that, maybe her mother was an
abusive heartless ignoring type mother and she's doing
the exact opposite, I have no idea.
*sigh*
I don't know why I shared this story, really, I have
no solution to this particular situation. It's not
like it's abuse, obvious and society agreed upon harm.
I just know it's a problem for this child. She just
wants to do something, *anything*, *for* herself, *by*
herself. God forbid.
She prolly won't really *know* when to do the dishes.
She'll prolly just know excruciatingly well, how, when
and which way she "SHOULD" do them. Which isn't the
same thing. And when she does finally do them, she'll
prolly have this feeling that it wasn't done quite
right, and she'll prolly feel guilty about that too.
*sigh*
~Aimee
reaction to somebody
else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just
about to do that
anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things
feel like I'm being
ordered around and everything done that way feels like
an obligation.
Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with
it, yet. But I
thought it was interesting to think about how often we
might be telling
our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I
seem so sensitive
to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I
suspect it was
commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
-pam
>>Nicely is the worst! lol Harder to see and
acknowledge. Commonly done in my childhood, too, and
I'm the queen of procrastination now.
There's a tape in your head, and it takes a while to
replace it with a tape of your own. Wow those dishes
are nasty. They're just going to get nastier. Should
I do them now, nasty, or later, nastier. Then just
choose. Neither one is good or bad, just nasty and
nastier. lol
Maybe one day you'll wash em right away, *most* of the
time, like I do now, or not. Doesn't matter. Except
to you (which is hard to remember!).
I'm getting better. ( I'm not dead, I think I'll go
for a walk! lol Anyway....)
Story:
We went to the Chinese Buffet last night for dinner.
It seems like every time I went up ( which is a lot of
times!) there was a woman with two or three (couldn't
tell, wasn't really paying attention at the time)
kids, not toddlers but a little older, and she kept
using the word can't. But in this sickly sweet, nice
as can be, tone of voice.
"You can't do that, here let me do that for you."
Or a similar refrain. I swear to god I thought I was
going to explode by the fifth or sixth time. It
seemed synchronicity by then, btw, I mean what are the
odds, every time I was up there, there she was? I
digress.
Of course by then there was a total melt down. That
kid was screaming from frustration. I could see it
clearly, because I had been thru that, had done that
for a while until I saw the error of my ways.
She thought she was being a "good mother". I would
even hazard a guess that she thought she was being a
fantastic mother, jumping up and down the entire time
to do this or that for her child(ren). She probably
has no clue. And I had no idea what to do or say.
I did that, my mother did that, she's doing that,
maybe her mother did that, maybe her mother was an
abusive heartless ignoring type mother and she's doing
the exact opposite, I have no idea.
*sigh*
I don't know why I shared this story, really, I have
no solution to this particular situation. It's not
like it's abuse, obvious and society agreed upon harm.
I just know it's a problem for this child. She just
wants to do something, *anything*, *for* herself, *by*
herself. God forbid.
She prolly won't really *know* when to do the dishes.
She'll prolly just know excruciatingly well, how, when
and which way she "SHOULD" do them. Which isn't the
same thing. And when she does finally do them, she'll
prolly have this feeling that it wasn't done quite
right, and she'll prolly feel guilty about that too.
*sigh*
~Aimee
Aimee
Because some kids like to save and hoard and open em
all at once, that's why! lol
I personally, and my aunt, we both keep all of our
gifts in little stacks, at Christmas, and wait for
everyone else to open theirs, before we even think
about opening ours!
I really haven't thought about why, just that I love
the wait, the tingly anticipation, just as much as I
love the gifts themselves!
~Aimee
<<We've always done it that way as well (dd is 6.5).
I'm also surprised
that it isn't universal.
-Cat >>
all at once, that's why! lol
I personally, and my aunt, we both keep all of our
gifts in little stacks, at Christmas, and wait for
everyone else to open theirs, before we even think
about opening ours!
I really haven't thought about why, just that I love
the wait, the tingly anticipation, just as much as I
love the gifts themselves!
~Aimee
<<We've always done it that way as well (dd is 6.5).
I'm also surprised
that it isn't universal.
-Cat >>
----- Original Message -----
From: averyschmidt
I've done this [opened presents as people arrive] at
my 5yo's last
two birthday parties, and I highly recommend it. It
makes so much sense
to me that I'm surprised it's not the way it's
generally done!
Patti
eriksmama2001
I have decided to have no shoulds. I now have wants. Or don't wants.
And I don't do what I don't want to do. I encourage my son to
verbalize his wants and don't wants. If he "doesn't want" to do
something, he doesn't do it. Sometimes, I am persuasive about why I
do want, but there is never any reward or punishment for doing or not
doing what he wants. I believe this allows him to think for himself.
A skill that I value very highly, even when I disagree. Usually we
both learn something this way.
Pat
--- In [email protected], Aimee <aimeel73@s...>
wrote:
And I don't do what I don't want to do. I encourage my son to
verbalize his wants and don't wants. If he "doesn't want" to do
something, he doesn't do it. Sometimes, I am persuasive about why I
do want, but there is never any reward or punishment for doing or not
doing what he wants. I believe this allows him to think for himself.
A skill that I value very highly, even when I disagree. Usually we
both learn something this way.
Pat
--- In [email protected], Aimee <aimeel73@s...>
wrote:
> <<My response to MySELF is really similar to my
> reaction to somebody
> else telling me to clean up the dishes when I was just
> about to do that
> anyway. Makes me not want to do it and makes things
> feel like I'm being
> ordered around and everything done that way feels like
> an obligation.
>
> Just some insight I had - don't know what to do with
> it, yet. But I
> thought it was interesting to think about how often we
> might be telling
> our kids to do things they'd have done anyway, too. I
> seem so sensitive
> to this, and so often feel myself being "contrary" - I
> suspect it was
> commonly done to me in my childhood. Nicely.
>
> -pam
> >>
>
> Nicely is the worst! lol Harder to see and
> acknowledge. Commonly done in my childhood, too, and
> I'm the queen of procrastination now.
>
> There's a tape in your head, and it takes a while to
> replace it with a tape of your own. Wow those dishes
> are nasty. They're just going to get nastier. Should
> I do them now, nasty, or later, nastier. Then just
> choose. Neither one is good or bad, just nasty and
> nastier. lol
>
> Maybe one day you'll wash em right away, *most* of the
> time, like I do now, or not. Doesn't matter. Except
> to you (which is hard to remember!).
>
> I'm getting better. ( I'm not dead, I think I'll go
> for a walk! lol Anyway....)
>
> Story:
>
> We went to the Chinese Buffet last night for dinner.
> It seems like every time I went up ( which is a lot of
> times!) there was a woman with two or three (couldn't
> tell, wasn't really paying attention at the time)
> kids, not toddlers but a little older, and she kept
> using the word can't. But in this sickly sweet, nice
> as can be, tone of voice.
>
> "You can't do that, here let me do that for you."
> Or a similar refrain. I swear to god I thought I was
> going to explode by the fifth or sixth time. It
> seemed synchronicity by then, btw, I mean what are the
> odds, every time I was up there, there she was? I
> digress.
>
> Of course by then there was a total melt down. That
> kid was screaming from frustration. I could see it
> clearly, because I had been thru that, had done that
> for a while until I saw the error of my ways.
>
> She thought she was being a "good mother". I would
> even hazard a guess that she thought she was being a
> fantastic mother, jumping up and down the entire time
> to do this or that for her child(ren). She probably
> has no clue. And I had no idea what to do or say.
>
> I did that, my mother did that, she's doing that,
> maybe her mother did that, maybe her mother was an
> abusive heartless ignoring type mother and she's doing
> the exact opposite, I have no idea.
>
> *sigh*
>
> I don't know why I shared this story, really, I have
> no solution to this particular situation. It's not
> like it's abuse, obvious and society agreed upon harm.
> I just know it's a problem for this child. She just
> wants to do something, *anything*, *for* herself, *by*
> herself. God forbid.
>
> She prolly won't really *know* when to do the dishes.
> She'll prolly just know excruciatingly well, how, when
> and which way she "SHOULD" do them. Which isn't the
> same thing. And when she does finally do them, she'll
> prolly have this feeling that it wasn't done quite
> right, and she'll prolly feel guilty about that too.
>
> *sigh*
>
> ~Aimee
catherine aceto
I remember hearing an interview with someone -a personal coach, maybe? She/he (can't remember) said that she/he told clients to tell themselves -- "Only if you want to and whenever you are ready, then [fill in blank with action]." The coach said that framing it in that way bypassed an automatic "don't tell me what to do" response that the coach had found that people had even to telling something to themselves.
I think this must also be somehow related to why it seems so much more satisfying for a child to discover that cutting apple quarters into halves always results in 8 pieces, rather than being told (even when ready and curious) that 2*4= 8 or 4*1/2=8.
-Cat
I think this must also be somehow related to why it seems so much more satisfying for a child to discover that cutting apple quarters into halves always results in 8 pieces, rather than being told (even when ready and curious) that 2*4= 8 or 4*1/2=8.
-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] contrariness
On Jul 17, 2004, at 9:50 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
> It still drives me absolutely crazy when dh does it to me. I really
> try to
> not do it to Jayn.
>
> What was the book please?
The Anger Habit: Proven Principles to Calm the Stormy Mind by Carl
Semmelroth
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jul 19, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Aimee wrote:
like that with me, always "doing for" me and making me fee like I
couldn't do things myself - but I have spotty memories, too - like I
was half in a daze throughout my childhood. And my parents were very
young - only 20 when they had me - so even though my mom was awesome
later, extremely knowledgeable about children and I learned a ton from
her - I'm not really sure, can't really get in touch with, how I was
raised when I was younger. I know we were absolutely never spanked. And
I had a happy childhood - with a lot of freedom.
But my mom and dad could easily have been doing and saying lots of
things that weren't great for us, psychologically - I know I ended up
with pretty extreme perfectionism - got that from somewhere, for sure.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> She prolly won't really *know* when to do the dishes.I sure do relate to the above. Not sure why - I don't think my mom was
> She'll prolly just know excruciatingly well, how, when
> and which way she "SHOULD" do them. Which isn't the
> same thing. And when she does finally do them, she'll
> prolly have this feeling that it wasn't done quite
> right, and she'll prolly feel guilty about that too.
like that with me, always "doing for" me and making me fee like I
couldn't do things myself - but I have spotty memories, too - like I
was half in a daze throughout my childhood. And my parents were very
young - only 20 when they had me - so even though my mom was awesome
later, extremely knowledgeable about children and I learned a ton from
her - I'm not really sure, can't really get in touch with, how I was
raised when I was younger. I know we were absolutely never spanked. And
I had a happy childhood - with a lot of freedom.
But my mom and dad could easily have been doing and saying lots of
things that weren't great for us, psychologically - I know I ended up
with pretty extreme perfectionism - got that from somewhere, for sure.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/19/2004 5:34:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
scubamama@... writes:
I have decided to have no shoulds. I now have wants. Or don't wants.
And I don't do what I don't want to do.<<<<
Did you just turn 40? <g>
Seems as if this realization happens at about 40!
I think it's great that we can "give" this gift to our children MUCH earlier!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scubamama@... writes:
I have decided to have no shoulds. I now have wants. Or don't wants.
And I don't do what I don't want to do.<<<<
Did you just turn 40? <g>
Seems as if this realization happens at about 40!
I think it's great that we can "give" this gift to our children MUCH earlier!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
Yes, and it has been liberating!
To live without fears allows for so much more joyful exploration of
the world. Actually, my son gave this gift to me.
I read a quote that your children teach you what you most need to
learn. Parenting is humbling, challenging and rewarding. I would not
have missed these lessons for the world.
To live without fears allows for so much more joyful exploration of
the world. Actually, my son gave this gift to me.
I read a quote that your children teach you what you most need to
learn. Parenting is humbling, challenging and rewarding. I would not
have missed these lessons for the world.
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/19/2004 5:34:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> scubamama@e... writes:
>
> I have decided to have no shoulds. I now have wants. Or don't
wants.
> And I don't do what I don't want to do.<<<<
>
> Did you just turn 40? <g>
>
> Seems as if this realization happens at about 40!
>
> I think it's great that we can "give" this gift to our children
MUCH earlier!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aimee
<<And my parents were very
young - only 20 when they had me - so even though my
mom was awesome
later, extremely knowledgeable about children and I
learned a ton from
her - I'm not really sure, can't really get in touch
with, how I was
raised when I was younger. I know we were absolutely
never spanked. And
I had a happy childhood - with a lot of freedom.>>
Me too, me too. Happy, lots of freedom, but maybe
still not 'ideal' whatever that is, lol, and still
went to school...That was really the only thing I
could point at and say, OK, well, I know not to do
THAT, lol.
Oh, and also didn't have a father, or had a line of
'fathers', so, goddess knows what that did!
<<But my mom and dad could easily have been doing and
saying lots of
things that weren't great for us, psychologically - I
know I ended up
with pretty extreme perfectionism - got that from
somewhere, for sure.>>
And the other side of the perfectionism coin is
procrastination. I know I'm not going to do it
perfectly, so I'm just not going to bother, at all.
lol
Someone once told me I had a fear of success going on.
Perfectionism can sometimes make you fearful of being
successful, because what if you're on a pedestal, and
you get knocked off? It's a long, long fall.
So I avoid pedestals, not success! lol
~Peace
Aimee
young - only 20 when they had me - so even though my
mom was awesome
later, extremely knowledgeable about children and I
learned a ton from
her - I'm not really sure, can't really get in touch
with, how I was
raised when I was younger. I know we were absolutely
never spanked. And
I had a happy childhood - with a lot of freedom.>>
Me too, me too. Happy, lots of freedom, but maybe
still not 'ideal' whatever that is, lol, and still
went to school...That was really the only thing I
could point at and say, OK, well, I know not to do
THAT, lol.
Oh, and also didn't have a father, or had a line of
'fathers', so, goddess knows what that did!
<<But my mom and dad could easily have been doing and
saying lots of
things that weren't great for us, psychologically - I
know I ended up
with pretty extreme perfectionism - got that from
somewhere, for sure.>>
And the other side of the perfectionism coin is
procrastination. I know I'm not going to do it
perfectly, so I'm just not going to bother, at all.
lol
Someone once told me I had a fear of success going on.
Perfectionism can sometimes make you fearful of being
successful, because what if you're on a pedestal, and
you get knocked off? It's a long, long fall.
So I avoid pedestals, not success! lol
~Peace
Aimee
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/20/04 9:08:53 AM, aimeel73@... writes:
<< And the other side of the perfectionism coin is
procrastination. I know I'm not going to do it
perfectly, so I'm just not going to bother, at all.
lol >>
When I was cleaning that storeroom this morning, I was thinking "I used to be
a dynamo!" I was filing some things, throwing most away, but there were
finished projects that I'm still impressed by. And then there were the many, MANY
more partly, never finished projects. When I have the energy and opportunity
to do something really flashy, I'm there. When flash or follow-through are
lacking, I tend to freeze up some, or dabble and stall.
I think it's genetic.
Sandra
<< And the other side of the perfectionism coin is
procrastination. I know I'm not going to do it
perfectly, so I'm just not going to bother, at all.
lol >>
When I was cleaning that storeroom this morning, I was thinking "I used to be
a dynamo!" I was filing some things, throwing most away, but there were
finished projects that I'm still impressed by. And then there were the many, MANY
more partly, never finished projects. When I have the energy and opportunity
to do something really flashy, I'm there. When flash or follow-through are
lacking, I tend to freeze up some, or dabble and stall.
I think it's genetic.
Sandra