A question about kids at home alone
Jennifer
Hello all,
This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. I know it depends
on the child, but I am just interested in a general idea.
I am asking this question on this list because I feel that being
able to be safe and responsible while home alone is definitely an
unschooling issue....
Thanks for your input
~Jennifer in NM
This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. I know it depends
on the child, but I am just interested in a general idea.
I am asking this question on this list because I feel that being
able to be safe and responsible while home alone is definitely an
unschooling issue....
Thanks for your input
~Jennifer in NM
Faith Pickell
My oldest son is 12 1/2 yrs and he has only stayed home twice by
himself. The first time he was really sick, and I went to the
drugstore to get him medicine and the second time was that he got home
from a friends house before I got back home. I'm not quite comfortable
leaving him home alone yet.
Faith
himself. The first time he was really sick, and I went to the
drugstore to get him medicine and the second time was that he got home
from a friends house before I got back home. I'm not quite comfortable
leaving him home alone yet.
Faith
On Saturday, July 10, 2004, at 11:29 AM, Jennifer wrote:
> Hello all,
> This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
> home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
> home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
> couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. I know it depends
> on the child, but I am just interested in a general idea.
> I am asking this question on this list because I feel that being
> able to be safe and responsible while home alone is definitely an
> unschooling issue....
> Thanks for your input
> ~Jennifer in NM
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Sara
I can only remember leaving Pete home when he wanted to be. Probably
at 8 or so for a few hours and then at 10 he could go several hours.
At 12 is when he felt comfortable with me being gone for the better
part of a day. He still doesn't care to much for this more than twice
a week. We would try to find friends houses to visit when I left.
Before he turned ten I only left him when he had a place to go. Sara
at 8 or so for a few hours and then at 10 he could go several hours.
At 12 is when he felt comfortable with me being gone for the better
part of a day. He still doesn't care to much for this more than twice
a week. We would try to find friends houses to visit when I left.
Before he turned ten I only left him when he had a place to go. Sara
J. Stauffer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer" <jvaitkus@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
> Hello all,
> This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
> home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
> home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
> couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. I know it depends
> on the child, but I am just interested in a general idea.
> I am asking this question on this list because I feel that being
> able to be safe and responsible while home alone is definitely an
> unschooling issue....
> Thanks for your input
> ~Jennifer in NM
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<<< kids who stay at
they chose while we were working outside (1 to 5 or so) then maybe staying
at home while I went down to the neighbor a few doors away for a bit (6 to
8) then staying home for an hour or so with me in the neighborhood and
available by phone (8 to 10 or so).
By 10 my kids stay home as long as I am in town running errands or such.
Adriane is 13 and regularly stays home all day and during the evening, etc..
Julie S.
> home alone.>>>>>With us it was a very gradual thing with the kids staying in the house if
they chose while we were working outside (1 to 5 or so) then maybe staying
at home while I went down to the neighbor a few doors away for a bit (6 to
8) then staying home for an hour or so with me in the neighborhood and
available by phone (8 to 10 or so).
By 10 my kids stay home as long as I am in town running errands or such.
Adriane is 13 and regularly stays home all day and during the evening, etc..
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer" <jvaitkus@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
> Hello all,
> This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
> home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
> home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
> couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. I know it depends
> on the child, but I am just interested in a general idea.
> I am asking this question on this list because I feel that being
> able to be safe and responsible while home alone is definitely an
> unschooling issue....
> Thanks for your input
> ~Jennifer in NM
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
I left my older kids home for brief periods when they were about 11 or 12
(but I got them a dog to watch them -). (they are 25 and 24 now) Times are
different - when I was a kid I got myself off to school alone at 8. I would
take off on my bike in the AM and come home before dark. But I have a 7 and 8
year old now that I don't let out of my sight. Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(but I got them a dog to watch them -). (they are 25 and 24 now) Times are
different - when I was a kid I got myself off to school alone at 8. I would
take off on my bike in the AM and come home before dark. But I have a 7 and 8
year old now that I don't let out of my sight. Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jane
My boys are 12 and 15 now and we leave them alone quite a bit. I work but am
self employed as a painter. I set my own schedule and allow for time to take
them to activities and to visit friends. They also help me when I need them.
They were 7 and 10 when I started leaving them alone for more than a few
hours. My hubby and I walk to a pub that's a few blocks away and see a band
and have a few drinks. They call our cellphone* if they need us. :) HTH's,
Jane
Cellphones have been great. If I want to shop or run errands and they want
to stay home they can always call me.
self employed as a painter. I set my own schedule and allow for time to take
them to activities and to visit friends. They also help me when I need them.
They were 7 and 10 when I started leaving them alone for more than a few
hours. My hubby and I walk to a pub that's a few blocks away and see a band
and have a few drinks. They call our cellphone* if they need us. :) HTH's,
Jane
Cellphones have been great. If I want to shop or run errands and they want
to stay home they can always call me.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ikatae@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
> I left my older kids home for brief periods when they were about 11 or 12
> (but I got them a dog to watch them -). (they are 25 and 24 now) Times
are
> different - when I was a kid I got myself off to school alone at 8. I
would
> take off on my bike in the AM and come home before dark. But I have a 7
and 8
> year old now that I don't let out of my sight. Connie
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Lee Roversi
This is where my cell phone comes in . . . STILL, with my kids now 21, 17
and 13! People have asked me if I have a cell phone for my work, and the
answer is no, it is my extended umbilical cord! Ha.
It is a gradual thing, though. . . starting around 9-10 years old, for
shorter runs to the post office or whatnot - to now being able to go away
overnight . . .but not without that cell phone!
Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
~an eco-tourism destination~
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii 96754
808-828-1513phone & voice mail
808-828-0805fax
www.northcountryfarms.com
and 13! People have asked me if I have a cell phone for my work, and the
answer is no, it is my extended umbilical cord! Ha.
It is a gradual thing, though. . . starting around 9-10 years old, for
shorter runs to the post office or whatnot - to now being able to go away
overnight . . .but not without that cell phone!
Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
~an eco-tourism destination~
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii 96754
808-828-1513phone & voice mail
808-828-0805fax
www.northcountryfarms.com
Jennifer
Thanks for everyone's input!! It's been really helpful. Most of the
responses are pretty much on the same track as I am.
~Jennifer :)
responses are pretty much on the same track as I am.
~Jennifer :)
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/10/04 11:45:50 AM, jvaitkus@... writes:
<< This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. >>
I think Holly was seven or eight before we left her all alone, and that would
be just to deliver another kid somewhere not far, or to go to the grocery
store for just a few things. She wanted to stay. It scared me, but she asked.
I always made sure she had her dad's phone number at work, and a neighbor's
phone number.
Sometimes I would leave two kids alone (Kirby and Holly, usually) with some
instructions about what to do in case of a disagreement. I feared the older
picking on the younger, especially when it was Kirby and Marty. Those were
never more than about an hour and a half or two, the oldest was (in the cases I'm
thinking of) ten or eleven, and they had phone numbers and usually a rented
video or something to last as long as I would be gone.
When I would come home I'd spend some time talking with the child (or with
each separately, if there was more than one) and just kinda casually try to
totally debrief them about anything that was a problem, or scary, or that they had
needed and not had, so that the next time I could make it better.
Kirby started wanting to stay alone when he was about 12, instead of going to
the zoo or whatever. He wanted to play video games undisturbed. So we
always had the plan of where he would go if he got scared to be in the house, and
who he would call if he went to a public place.
There's a Hollywood Video near our house, and a kid coutore.
If I had a cellphone I wouldn't have worried much at all. Moms with
cellphones, I think, have more range.
Because my kids had a lot of freedom, I wasn't worried that they would play
with matches or anything crazy.
A kid in Albuquerque burned down his apartment and all the neighbors were
homeless for a few days. He was four, and lit firecrackers in the closet.
People were interviewed on the TV and they said it was just terrible parenting.
The mom spoke and said firecrackers should be banned. And that people should
never let kids get hold of lighters.
I think if she had helped him light all the fireworks they owned on the 4th
of July, he would have had it out of his system. And he would've known the
closet was a bad place to do it. And he wouldn't have hidden fireworks from her.
Maybe those aren't related, but as to why I wasn't afraid to leave my younger
kids, it is. I wasn't leaving them against their will. If they had wanted
to go with me they could've. If they WANTED to stay home, they needed to be
ways that would not scare me (or them), so they could have the privilege again
later.
I can't advise about leaving kids home against their will. Depending how
unhappy they are about it, things might not be safe and they might not be as safe.
Sandra
<< This is a question for those of you who have kids who stay at
home alone. How old were they when you started letting them be at
home alone. How old were they when they stayed at home for just a
couple of hours to a whole afternoon or evening. >>
I think Holly was seven or eight before we left her all alone, and that would
be just to deliver another kid somewhere not far, or to go to the grocery
store for just a few things. She wanted to stay. It scared me, but she asked.
I always made sure she had her dad's phone number at work, and a neighbor's
phone number.
Sometimes I would leave two kids alone (Kirby and Holly, usually) with some
instructions about what to do in case of a disagreement. I feared the older
picking on the younger, especially when it was Kirby and Marty. Those were
never more than about an hour and a half or two, the oldest was (in the cases I'm
thinking of) ten or eleven, and they had phone numbers and usually a rented
video or something to last as long as I would be gone.
When I would come home I'd spend some time talking with the child (or with
each separately, if there was more than one) and just kinda casually try to
totally debrief them about anything that was a problem, or scary, or that they had
needed and not had, so that the next time I could make it better.
Kirby started wanting to stay alone when he was about 12, instead of going to
the zoo or whatever. He wanted to play video games undisturbed. So we
always had the plan of where he would go if he got scared to be in the house, and
who he would call if he went to a public place.
There's a Hollywood Video near our house, and a kid coutore.
If I had a cellphone I wouldn't have worried much at all. Moms with
cellphones, I think, have more range.
Because my kids had a lot of freedom, I wasn't worried that they would play
with matches or anything crazy.
A kid in Albuquerque burned down his apartment and all the neighbors were
homeless for a few days. He was four, and lit firecrackers in the closet.
People were interviewed on the TV and they said it was just terrible parenting.
The mom spoke and said firecrackers should be banned. And that people should
never let kids get hold of lighters.
I think if she had helped him light all the fireworks they owned on the 4th
of July, he would have had it out of his system. And he would've known the
closet was a bad place to do it. And he wouldn't have hidden fireworks from her.
Maybe those aren't related, but as to why I wasn't afraid to leave my younger
kids, it is. I wasn't leaving them against their will. If they had wanted
to go with me they could've. If they WANTED to stay home, they needed to be
ways that would not scare me (or them), so they could have the privilege again
later.
I can't advise about leaving kids home against their will. Depending how
unhappy they are about it, things might not be safe and they might not be as safe.
Sandra
[email protected]
This must vary by state. In CA there is no law but when asking on a field
trip
to the police station they told us like 13 or 14. I think my 10 yr old dd
is
old enough to leave for an hour or two but I feel kind of paranoid because I
think
law enforcement can interpret it how they wish since there is no definite
age.
Kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Roversi [mailto:ncfarms@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
This is where my cell phone comes in . . . STILL, with my kids now 21, 17
and 13! People have asked me if I have a cell phone for my work, and the
answer is no, it is my extended umbilical cord! Ha.
It is a gradual thing, though. . . starting around 9-10 years old, for
shorter runs to the post office or whatnot - to now being able to go away
overnight . . .but not without that cell phone!
Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
~an eco-tourism destination~
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii 96754
808-828-1513phone & voice mail
808-828-0805fax
www.northcountryfarms.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
trip
to the police station they told us like 13 or 14. I think my 10 yr old dd
is
old enough to leave for an hour or two but I feel kind of paranoid because I
think
law enforcement can interpret it how they wish since there is no definite
age.
Kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Roversi [mailto:ncfarms@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
This is where my cell phone comes in . . . STILL, with my kids now 21, 17
and 13! People have asked me if I have a cell phone for my work, and the
answer is no, it is my extended umbilical cord! Ha.
It is a gradual thing, though. . . starting around 9-10 years old, for
shorter runs to the post office or whatnot - to now being able to go away
overnight . . .but not without that cell phone!
Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
~an eco-tourism destination~
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii 96754
808-828-1513phone & voice mail
808-828-0805fax
www.northcountryfarms.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[email protected]
<<This must vary by state>>
It does vary by state. Some states have specific laws, and some don't.
Here in New York there are no specific laws, and law enforcement officials can
and do interpret each situation differently. I have been told that it is
standard procedure, in the case of an emergency, to look at any child under the
age of 14 who is home alone as a possible case of neglect. But various
organizations in our area offer babysitting courses to children as young as 11.
I do allow my kids to stay home alone when the are 10...but not for long
periods of time. When they are 11, I may allow them to watch a younger sibling
briefly.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It does vary by state. Some states have specific laws, and some don't.
Here in New York there are no specific laws, and law enforcement officials can
and do interpret each situation differently. I have been told that it is
standard procedure, in the case of an emergency, to look at any child under the
age of 14 who is home alone as a possible case of neglect. But various
organizations in our area offer babysitting courses to children as young as 11.
I do allow my kids to stay home alone when the are 10...but not for long
periods of time. When they are 11, I may allow them to watch a younger sibling
briefly.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
<<This must vary by state>>
******In PA it is 12. My oldest will be 9 this month so I haven't contemplated leaving them home alone yet.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
******In PA it is 12. My oldest will be 9 this month so I haven't contemplated leaving them home alone yet.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<This must vary by state. In CA there is no law but when asking on a
field
wrong the parent is legally responsible. Personally, I like not having a
set age. My 13yo was born with the maturity of a 30yo. My 11yo on the
other hand........
Julie S.
field
> tripThe law does vary. In Texas, there is no set age but if something goes
> to the police station they told us like 13 or 14. >>>>
wrong the parent is legally responsible. Personally, I like not having a
set age. My 13yo was born with the maturity of a 30yo. My 11yo on the
other hand........
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kaculwell@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
> This must vary by state. In CA there is no law but when asking on a field
> trip
> to the police station they told us like 13 or 14. I think my 10 yr old dd
> is
> old enough to leave for an hour or two but I feel kind of paranoid because
I
> think
> law enforcement can interpret it how they wish since there is no definite
> age.
>
> Kathy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Roversi [mailto:ncfarms@...]
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 8:23 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] A question about kids at home alone
>
>
> This is where my cell phone comes in . . . STILL, with my kids now 21, 17
> and 13! People have asked me if I have a cell phone for my work, and the
> answer is no, it is my extended umbilical cord! Ha.
>
> It is a gradual thing, though. . . starting around 9-10 years old, for
> shorter runs to the post office or whatnot - to now being able to go away
> overnight . . .but not without that cell phone!
>
> Lee
> NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
> ~an eco-tourism destination~
> P.O. Box 723
> Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii 96754
> 808-828-1513phone & voice mail
> 808-828-0805fax
> www.northcountryfarms.com
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Angela
We went camping recently and I let the kids build their own little fires
next to the fire pit. (kids are7 and 9) They put a little ring of rocks in
a small circle (6" diameter) and had a blast burning pine needles and twigs
and pinecones, etc. Dh made some comment about how playing with fire is
dangerous. (He's Mr. Safety, in his own mind, but I think he worries
excessively.) It was as safe a way to experiment with fire as there is.
There was no wind. It was in a clearing that was gravel. They were
supervised by two adults. I explained that to him and said it's better they
learn to play with fire under these conditions than feel the need to sneak
away and play with fire under who-knows what conditions. He then related a
story from his childhood where his brother caught a cedar wardrobe on fire
in his house experimenting with fire while hiding in the bedroom. He made
my point for me.
That said, my Eagle Scout dh can't light a campfire or woodstove to save his
life. (He was never aloud to play with fire.) I spent my childhood playing
with fire (camping) and most of the time I can light one with one match.
It's all in the preparations. ;0) My girls are learning some great life
skills playing with fire.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
I think if she had helped him light all the fireworks they owned on the 4th
of July, he would have had it out of his system. And he would've known the
closet was a bad place to do it. And he wouldn't have hidden fireworks from
her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
next to the fire pit. (kids are7 and 9) They put a little ring of rocks in
a small circle (6" diameter) and had a blast burning pine needles and twigs
and pinecones, etc. Dh made some comment about how playing with fire is
dangerous. (He's Mr. Safety, in his own mind, but I think he worries
excessively.) It was as safe a way to experiment with fire as there is.
There was no wind. It was in a clearing that was gravel. They were
supervised by two adults. I explained that to him and said it's better they
learn to play with fire under these conditions than feel the need to sneak
away and play with fire under who-knows what conditions. He then related a
story from his childhood where his brother caught a cedar wardrobe on fire
in his house experimenting with fire while hiding in the bedroom. He made
my point for me.
That said, my Eagle Scout dh can't light a campfire or woodstove to save his
life. (He was never aloud to play with fire.) I spent my childhood playing
with fire (camping) and most of the time I can light one with one match.
It's all in the preparations. ;0) My girls are learning some great life
skills playing with fire.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
I think if she had helped him light all the fireworks they owned on the 4th
of July, he would have had it out of his system. And he would've known the
closet was a bad place to do it. And he wouldn't have hidden fireworks from
her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Recently my kids have been experimenting with starting fires with a
magnifying glass. They have managed to start a fire on a slightly overcast day less
than an hour before sunset. I was very impressed. This has led to a lot of
experiments in starting fires, and they have learned a lot and had a lot of
fun. I also thought that being able to start a fire easily was an
excellent life skill. But the neighbors definitely thought that it was a bad idea
to let my kids *play with fire though* and thought I should keep the
magnifying glass away from them.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
magnifying glass. They have managed to start a fire on a slightly overcast day less
than an hour before sunset. I was very impressed. This has led to a lot of
experiments in starting fires, and they have learned a lot and had a lot of
fun. I also thought that being able to start a fire easily was an
excellent life skill. But the neighbors definitely thought that it was a bad idea
to let my kids *play with fire though* and thought I should keep the
magnifying glass away from them.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Thomas
I am new on the board and have been reading the posts.I can sure relate to
your experience.
When I was a kids we used to use a magnifying glass all the time to start
fires on the sidewalk or burn up a leaf or piece of paper. So did other kids
What has changed?
I don't recall any adults making a fuss.
mamaof4
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your experience.
When I was a kids we used to use a magnifying glass all the time to start
fires on the sidewalk or burn up a leaf or piece of paper. So did other kids
What has changed?
I don't recall any adults making a fuss.
mamaof4
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/04 5:09:13 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:
<< That said, my Eagle Scout dh can't light a campfire or woodstove to save
his
life. (He was never aloud to play with fire.) I spent my childhood playing
with fire (camping) and most of the time I can light one with one match.
It's all in the preparations. ;0) My girls are learning some great life
skills playing with fire. >>
I'm the pyrotechnician/pyromaniac at our house. When I was a kid, we lived
where trash was burned in barrels in 55 gallon drums [big oil cans], and
eventually the ashes were taken to the dump. I loved that job above all. I would
arrange the trash so that the cardboard tubes and wax-coated milk cartons and
such carried smoke in various directions. It was a boring day when I had no
building materials like that. <g> And lighting it with one match was my
specialty.
We had a big dirt yard and we could play with matches without getting in
trouble. We'd play with candles and warp or melt holes in 45 rpm records
(reject promos from a radio station my uncle managed) and hang them up for
decorations on the back porch. (Stench was bad, but we did it outside).
For years we've done medieval/SCA camping. Until the last few years
(drought) we always had one of the best fires, with wooden benches around, and that's
where the singing and story telling would end up. Lately, fire restrictions
make it enclosed-fire-only, not much fun.
Our current house has a fireplace, and though my husband is good with fires
outside, one of his favorite stacking plans creates something that can make a
stick roll out of the fire. I've pointed it out, but mostly I just keep the
grate close and when it's close to doing its collapse trick, I poke it all in.
I don't know why he so stubbornly clings to the idea that it will always
collapse in, when he sets it to roll out. <g>
Still playing with fire, though, I melt leftover candle stuff (medieval
feasts generate candle wax) and wax some of the kindling. It's a weird hobby, but
makes some of the easiest fire-starting ever.
Every winter we buy marshmallows, and put them in a hanging basket by the
fireplace with long forks from thrift stores. Every spring, I throw out the
hard, leftover marshmallows. Less than half a bag a year. They're too sweet for
our kids' tastes, and they don't have the desperation to play with fire that
made some kids my age love marshmallows.
Sandra
<< That said, my Eagle Scout dh can't light a campfire or woodstove to save
his
life. (He was never aloud to play with fire.) I spent my childhood playing
with fire (camping) and most of the time I can light one with one match.
It's all in the preparations. ;0) My girls are learning some great life
skills playing with fire. >>
I'm the pyrotechnician/pyromaniac at our house. When I was a kid, we lived
where trash was burned in barrels in 55 gallon drums [big oil cans], and
eventually the ashes were taken to the dump. I loved that job above all. I would
arrange the trash so that the cardboard tubes and wax-coated milk cartons and
such carried smoke in various directions. It was a boring day when I had no
building materials like that. <g> And lighting it with one match was my
specialty.
We had a big dirt yard and we could play with matches without getting in
trouble. We'd play with candles and warp or melt holes in 45 rpm records
(reject promos from a radio station my uncle managed) and hang them up for
decorations on the back porch. (Stench was bad, but we did it outside).
For years we've done medieval/SCA camping. Until the last few years
(drought) we always had one of the best fires, with wooden benches around, and that's
where the singing and story telling would end up. Lately, fire restrictions
make it enclosed-fire-only, not much fun.
Our current house has a fireplace, and though my husband is good with fires
outside, one of his favorite stacking plans creates something that can make a
stick roll out of the fire. I've pointed it out, but mostly I just keep the
grate close and when it's close to doing its collapse trick, I poke it all in.
I don't know why he so stubbornly clings to the idea that it will always
collapse in, when he sets it to roll out. <g>
Still playing with fire, though, I melt leftover candle stuff (medieval
feasts generate candle wax) and wax some of the kindling. It's a weird hobby, but
makes some of the easiest fire-starting ever.
Every winter we buy marshmallows, and put them in a hanging basket by the
fireplace with long forks from thrift stores. Every spring, I throw out the
hard, leftover marshmallows. Less than half a bag a year. They're too sweet for
our kids' tastes, and they don't have the desperation to play with fire that
made some kids my age love marshmallows.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/04 6:52:58 AM, ivorygrace7@... writes:
<< But the neighbors definitely thought that it was a bad idea
to let my kids *play with fire though* and thought I should keep the
magnifying glass away from them. >>
Our neighbors are elderly, and in their long lives have had two houses burn
to the ground. They're very afraid of fire. I can understand.
I wouldn't keep the magnifying glass away from them, but burning designs on
wood might be better than lighting piles of leaves, and I *would* be triple
sure to see that the magnifying glass wasn't left outside afterwards. They and
the sun can start fires without any help.
Sandra
<< But the neighbors definitely thought that it was a bad idea
to let my kids *play with fire though* and thought I should keep the
magnifying glass away from them. >>
Our neighbors are elderly, and in their long lives have had two houses burn
to the ground. They're very afraid of fire. I can understand.
I wouldn't keep the magnifying glass away from them, but burning designs on
wood might be better than lighting piles of leaves, and I *would* be triple
sure to see that the magnifying glass wasn't left outside afterwards. They and
the sun can start fires without any help.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<<<<< When I was a kids we used to use a magnifying glass all the time to
start
come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented. That if
ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball. People are downright
paranoid, even in the little town we live in, of kidnappers, burglars,
rapists.
People seem very happy to limit their movements, their freedom, their lives
in a vain attempt for nothing bad to ever happen to anybody. Reminds me of
our country's reaction to 911.
As an example, I was needed to run into the grocery store for a couple of
things the other day. I had my 11yo son and his 10yo friend with me. They
were busy playing Gameboy and my son asked if they could just sit on the
curb in front of the store and play while I got the few things in the store.
I said "sure" but the friend decided it was a bad idea because somebody
might try to "steal" them. My son looked at him like he was crazy but came
along into the store so his friend wouldn't be uncomfortable. This is in a
small town of less than 5,000 people <sigh>.
Julie S.
start
> fires on the sidewalk or burn up a leaf or piece of paper. So did otherkids
> What has changed?Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety. We have
> I don't recall any adults making a fuss.>>>>>>
come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented. That if
ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball. People are downright
paranoid, even in the little town we live in, of kidnappers, burglars,
rapists.
People seem very happy to limit their movements, their freedom, their lives
in a vain attempt for nothing bad to ever happen to anybody. Reminds me of
our country's reaction to 911.
As an example, I was needed to run into the grocery store for a couple of
things the other day. I had my 11yo son and his 10yo friend with me. They
were busy playing Gameboy and my son asked if they could just sit on the
curb in front of the store and play while I got the few things in the store.
I said "sure" but the friend decided it was a bad idea because somebody
might try to "steal" them. My son looked at him like he was crazy but came
along into the store so his friend wouldn't be uncomfortable. This is in a
small town of less than 5,000 people <sigh>.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Thomas" <meplusfive@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
>
> I am new on the board and have been reading the posts.I can sure relate to
> your experience.
> When I was a kids we used to use a magnifying glass all the time to
start
> fires on the sidewalk or burn up a leaf or piece of paper. So did other
kids
> What has changed?
> I don't recall any adults making a fuss.
>
> mamaof4
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
nellebelle
> Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety. Wehave come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented. That if
ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball.>>>>>
Have you read The Giver? A utopian society where bad things have been
eliminated. At least at first glance...
Mary Ellen
J. Stauffer
Actually, "The Giver" is one of my favorite stories.
Julie S.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
> > Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety. We
> have come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented. That
if
> ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball.>>>>>
>
> Have you read The Giver? A utopian society where bad things have been
> eliminated. At least at first glance...
>
> Mary Ellen
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
pam sorooshian
On Jul 12, 2004, at 6:45 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
I saw a car burned out, inside, because of a mirror left on the front
seat that had concentrated the sun's heat onto the seatback.
I wonder if cd's could do that?
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> and I *would* be tripleBe careful about leaving them on the dashboard or seat of a car, too.
> sure to see that the magnifying glass wasn't left outside afterwards.
> They and
> the sun can start fires without any help.
I saw a car burned out, inside, because of a mirror left on the front
seat that had concentrated the sun's heat onto the seatback.
I wonder if cd's could do that?
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
joylyn
Their is a companion to the giver, called Gathering Blue. Both are very
disturbing novels. Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was very
disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also don't
want Lexie to read it, yet.
Joylyn
J. Stauffer wrote:
disturbing novels. Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was very
disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also don't
want Lexie to read it, yet.
Joylyn
J. Stauffer wrote:
> Actually, "The Giver" is one of my favorite stories.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Julie S.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
>
>
> > > Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety. We
> > have come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented. That
> if
> > ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball.>>>>>
> >
> > Have you read The Giver? A utopian society where bad things have been
> > eliminated. At least at first glance...
> >
> > Mary Ellen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
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> ADVERTISEMENT
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J. Stauffer
<<<<<Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was very
is bleached white, pasteurized and processed before given to kids, where
anything remotely controversial (like non-submissive wives) must be removed,
where "Oh God" is considered cursing......I was so thrilled by the main
character finding the colors, feeling the pain, seeing the beauty.
Julie S.
> disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, andPerhaps it is because I live here in the land of Bob Jones where every idea
> would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also don't
> want Lexie to read it, yet. >>>>>
is bleached white, pasteurized and processed before given to kids, where
anything remotely controversial (like non-submissive wives) must be removed,
where "Oh God" is considered cursing......I was so thrilled by the main
character finding the colors, feeling the pain, seeing the beauty.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "joylyn" <joylyn@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
> Their is a companion to the giver, called Gathering Blue. Both are very
> disturbing novels. Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was very
> disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
> would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also don't
> want Lexie to read it, yet.
>
> Joylyn
>
> J. Stauffer wrote:
>
> > Actually, "The Giver" is one of my favorite stories.
> >
> > Julie S.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
> >
> >
> > > > Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety.
We
> > > have come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented.
That
> > if
> > > ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball.>>>>>
> > >
> > > Have you read The Giver? A utopian society where bad things have been
> > > eliminated. At least at first glance...
> > >
> > > Mary Ellen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
> > >
> > > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1291jtf8g/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1089739325/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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pam sorooshian
Roxana (16), reading over my shoulder, says she read it at about 5 or 6
years old and then regularly every so often after that. She LOVES it
and says she just got more out of it as she got older. She doesn't
think she was so disturbed by it when she was young as she was as she
got older. But it was a "good disturbed" - made her think and think.
Rosie read it young, too, and recently read it again. I think she's
read it several times (and the companion book, too).
It comes up on a regular basis - every time any one of their friends
reads it they all get started talking about it, again.
I'd have said it is not appropriate for younger kids - but Rox
disagrees with me.
So - there you have two opinions.
-pam
years old and then regularly every so often after that. She LOVES it
and says she just got more out of it as she got older. She doesn't
think she was so disturbed by it when she was young as she was as she
got older. But it was a "good disturbed" - made her think and think.
Rosie read it young, too, and recently read it again. I think she's
read it several times (and the companion book, too).
It comes up on a regular basis - every time any one of their friends
reads it they all get started talking about it, again.
I'd have said it is not appropriate for younger kids - but Rox
disagrees with me.
So - there you have two opinions.
-pam
On Jul 12, 2004, at 9:42 PM, J. Stauffer wrote:
> <<<<<Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was very
>> disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
>> would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also
>> don't
>> want Lexie to read it, yet. >>>>>
>
> Perhaps it is because I live here in the land of Bob Jones where every
> idea
> is bleached white, pasteurized and processed before given to kids,
> where
> anything remotely controversial (like non-submissive wives) must be
> removed,
> where "Oh God" is considered cursing......I was so thrilled by the main
> character finding the colors, feeling the pain, seeing the beauty.
>
> Julie S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joylyn" <joylyn@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
>
>
>> Their is a companion to the giver, called Gathering Blue. Both are
>> very
>> disturbing novels. Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was
>> very
>> disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
>> would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also
>> don't
>> want Lexie to read it, yet.
>>
>> Joylyn
>>
>> J. Stauffer wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, "The Giver" is one of my favorite stories.
>>>
>>> Julie S.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] playing with fire
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Personally, I think we have entered the "Twilight Zone" of safety.
> We
>>>> have come to believe that all hurt, all damage is to be prevented.
> That
>>> if
>>>> ANYBODY at all gets hurt, somebody dropped the ball.>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you read The Giver? A utopian society where bad things have
>>>> been
>>>> eliminated. At least at first glance...
>>>>
>>>> Mary Ellen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
>>>> group.
>>>>
>>>> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
>>> http://www.unschooling.com
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>>>
>>> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
>>> http://www.unschooling.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>>
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> anion.yahoo.com>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>>
>> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
joylyn
J. Stauffer wrote:
thought provoking and incredible. But the ideas in them are complicated
and disturbing. It's like the Holocaust or a current story about people
starving in Africa that's in the LA Times or what happened in Cambodia.
Once a child has read about or seen pictures depicting these events,
they can't ever ever forget them. I'll never forget when I realized
Anne Frank died, or the first time I went to the Holocaust Museum in LA,
or when I saw the Killing Fields. Those memories are burned into my
brain. I feel strongly that our children need to know these things,
they need, must know about the Holocaust, the starvation in Africa, the
Cambodian Holocaust, Vietnam, the horrors of the US Civil War, etc.--but
I don't think they need to have these images, this knowledge, when they
are so young. There is enough time to know this stuff, when they are
older.
So anyway, back to the books, they are great books, amazing stories, and
I will give them to Lexie to read... To me, it's not about her ability
to read the books (ie, her reading level, whatever that means), nor is
it about her ability to understand the plot or story, but instead,
because I know she will understand the story, and think on it... and
well, I don't think she needs to think of those ideas so much when she's
so young.
Right now she's reading Haddax's Among the Impostors. She just finished
Among the Hidden, which are similar kinda of Sci-fi type stuff. She
asked me today if they took place in modern times, or in the future or
in the past? I told her that it was not really any of those time
periods, it was sorta like an alternative universe type idea...She also
read Running out of Time, also by Haddax. Good books, if you like the
Giver, and a little bit lighter.
Joylyn
> <<<<<Maybe I just take them too seriously, but I was veryOh, I don't deny that these are wonderful books. They are so deep and
> > disturbed by them, and yet I have read both books more than once, and
> > would like to teach the giver to my students (6th grade). I also don't
> > want Lexie to read it, yet. >>>>>
>
> Perhaps it is because I live here in the land of Bob Jones where every
> idea
> is bleached white, pasteurized and processed before given to kids, where
> anything remotely controversial (like non-submissive wives) must be
> removed,
> where "Oh God" is considered cursing......I was so thrilled by the main
> character finding the colors, feeling the pain, seeing the beauty.
thought provoking and incredible. But the ideas in them are complicated
and disturbing. It's like the Holocaust or a current story about people
starving in Africa that's in the LA Times or what happened in Cambodia.
Once a child has read about or seen pictures depicting these events,
they can't ever ever forget them. I'll never forget when I realized
Anne Frank died, or the first time I went to the Holocaust Museum in LA,
or when I saw the Killing Fields. Those memories are burned into my
brain. I feel strongly that our children need to know these things,
they need, must know about the Holocaust, the starvation in Africa, the
Cambodian Holocaust, Vietnam, the horrors of the US Civil War, etc.--but
I don't think they need to have these images, this knowledge, when they
are so young. There is enough time to know this stuff, when they are
older.
So anyway, back to the books, they are great books, amazing stories, and
I will give them to Lexie to read... To me, it's not about her ability
to read the books (ie, her reading level, whatever that means), nor is
it about her ability to understand the plot or story, but instead,
because I know she will understand the story, and think on it... and
well, I don't think she needs to think of those ideas so much when she's
so young.
Right now she's reading Haddax's Among the Impostors. She just finished
Among the Hidden, which are similar kinda of Sci-fi type stuff. She
asked me today if they took place in modern times, or in the future or
in the past? I told her that it was not really any of those time
periods, it was sorta like an alternative universe type idea...She also
read Running out of Time, also by Haddax. Good books, if you like the
Giver, and a little bit lighter.
Joylyn
joylyn
pam sorooshian wrote:
read that book without crying and dreaming, now! The school has a copy
that has an afterward by the author, and she talks about whether the
Jonas and Gabriel die at the end or not. I had always assumed they had
been rescued by whomever was in the house, so I was very disturbed to
find out the author felt they had died. She said in her essay that she
gets a lot of readers writing to her upset that Jonas and Gabriel die,
and insisting to her that they don't die, which she finds amusing. It's
a very revealing essay, but I can't say it made me feel better about the
book.
wrong, but.... she's just nine. In packing our books I found some Sweet
Valley Twins or some such book, and thought about throwing them out or
bringing them to the HSC conference or whatever, but I'd almost see
Lexie read such drivel then think too hard on those books.
can you ask her to explain her thinking?
Joylyn
> Roxana (16), reading over my shoulder, says she read it at about 5 or 6Oh man, I sure hope I don't get more out of it when I'm older. I can't
> years old and then regularly every so often after that. She LOVES it
> and says she just got more out of it as she got older.
read that book without crying and dreaming, now! The school has a copy
that has an afterward by the author, and she talks about whether the
Jonas and Gabriel die at the end or not. I had always assumed they had
been rescued by whomever was in the house, so I was very disturbed to
find out the author felt they had died. She said in her essay that she
gets a lot of readers writing to her upset that Jonas and Gabriel die,
and insisting to her that they don't die, which she finds amusing. It's
a very revealing essay, but I can't say it made me feel better about the
book.
> She doesn'tyeah, but I don't want Lexie to have those thoughts just yet. Maybe I'm
> think she was so disturbed by it when she was young as she was as she
> got older. But it was a "good disturbed" - made her think and think.
wrong, but.... she's just nine. In packing our books I found some Sweet
Valley Twins or some such book, and thought about throwing them out or
bringing them to the HSC conference or whatever, but I'd almost see
Lexie read such drivel then think too hard on those books.
> Rosie read it young, too, and recently read it again. I think she'sYep, always... I'd love to hear why Rox thinks that it's appropriate...
> read it several times (and the companion book, too).
>
> It comes up on a regular basis - every time any one of their friends
> reads it they all get started talking about it, again.
>
> I'd have said it is not appropriate for younger kids - but Rox
> disagrees with me.
>
> So - there you have two opinions.
can you ask her to explain her thinking?
Joylyn
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jul 12, 2004, at 10:35 PM, joylyn wrote:
as more than just a really good story and it wasn't until she was older
that she thought deeply about the themes of it and what was behind the
plot. As a kid, she just thought it was a great book because it created
such a real alternative world and so on. She thinks it is disturbing in
an intellectual way, not in a horror story way, so people won't be
disturbed by it unless they are intellectually 'ready' to think about
it. In other words if a child is at the point that they will think
about it then she thinks they can handle it and if they're not ready to
handle it, they won't think about the implications of it and won't be
disturbed by it.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Yep, always... I'd love to hear why Rox thinks that it's appropriate...She says she doesn't think at 8 or 9 years old that she thought of it
> can you ask her to explain her thinking?
>
as more than just a really good story and it wasn't until she was older
that she thought deeply about the themes of it and what was behind the
plot. As a kid, she just thought it was a great book because it created
such a real alternative world and so on. She thinks it is disturbing in
an intellectual way, not in a horror story way, so people won't be
disturbed by it unless they are intellectually 'ready' to think about
it. In other words if a child is at the point that they will think
about it then she thinks they can handle it and if they're not ready to
handle it, they won't think about the implications of it and won't be
disturbed by it.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
kayb85
> <<This must vary by state>>It is???? I've read discussions on PA homeschool lists about this
>
> ******In PA it is 12.
and I always came away with the impression that PA law has no age.
It's up to the discretion of the parents, which seems nice but it
also means that determining whether or not leaving the children home
alone is up to the discretion of the individual social worker.
I found this site from Erie, PA children and youth. FAQ #2 says that
the law doesn't state a specific age, but that children under 10
definitely need adult supervision.
Personally, I'd be okay leaving my kids home alone for a few hours
(ages 11,7,and 5) especially if I talked to them regularly by cell
phone but I'm hesitant to because you KNOW that there are people who
would report that if they found out...