One follow up comment on my ten year old
Julie Bogart
In rereading my message, I just wanted to say that I haven't made artifical attempts to
teach him (like setting up times and using curricula). I've used Family Math for math
games and have invited whoever wants to play to come. Usually my other two who are
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and leaves.
And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters or working on
it as a skill.
This is the same child who at five told me one day, "Mom, I will not be taught." And that's
been basically true. He also said he would never learn to read since he would never need
to. On his own, one year, he figure it out (he was 7). So I know he has the power to learn
when he wants to in his own time.
I'm now just concerned about showing that he is learning in a way that satisfies the state.
And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other kids learn.
This might be too complicated for the list, but if you have any insight, I'd appreciate it.
Julie B
teach him (like setting up times and using curricula). I've used Family Math for math
games and have invited whoever wants to play to come. Usually my other two who are
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and leaves.
And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters or working on
it as a skill.
This is the same child who at five told me one day, "Mom, I will not be taught." And that's
been basically true. He also said he would never learn to read since he would never need
to. On his own, one year, he figure it out (he was 7). So I know he has the power to learn
when he wants to in his own time.
I'm now just concerned about showing that he is learning in a way that satisfies the state.
And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other kids learn.
This might be too complicated for the list, but if you have any insight, I'd appreciate it.
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/7/2004 9:42:36 AM Central Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of
writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters
or working on
it as a skill.
~~~
He can use the computer to write his bird lists. I like that better for
lists, anyway. Any computer at least has notepad, or, if he knows someone who
would be interested in his list, he could email them the list. It's nice to
have an intended audience when writing. Computers are better for lists
because you can reorder the list alphabetically or if you use a spreadsheet or
table, according to the date the birds were first seen or by quantity.
We use the bird guide with post-its to keep up with the birds we've seen in
the yard. He could draw a sketch of each bird he sees and put it in a file.
There are lots of way to keep up with stuff like that.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of
writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters
or working on
it as a skill.
~~~
He can use the computer to write his bird lists. I like that better for
lists, anyway. Any computer at least has notepad, or, if he knows someone who
would be interested in his list, he could email them the list. It's nice to
have an intended audience when writing. Computers are better for lists
because you can reorder the list alphabetically or if you use a spreadsheet or
table, according to the date the birds were first seen or by quantity.
We use the bird guide with post-its to keep up with the birds we've seen in
the yard. He could draw a sketch of each bird he sees and put it in a file.
There are lots of way to keep up with stuff like that.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Julie Bogart <julie@...> wrote:
***I'm now just concerned about showing that he is learning in a way that satisfies the state.***
Julie,
What state are you in and what kind of requirements do you have? That info might help me and others in making suggestions.
***Usually my other two who are
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and leaves.***
My 11 ds is the same way. Even if you aren't making artificial ways to teach, it seems like the Family Math thing strikes out with some kids. I brought that home from the library once and it did not go over well. I think to them it was still premeditated. Ya know, not just living our lives, we weren't just playing a game cuz it looks fun. We were playing Family "Math". I don't know, maybe I wasn't a good enough salelperson on that, but I do know that the kids are learning tons of math, numbers, and logical reasoning from doing what they/we like. Our conversations alone have gone over algebraic equations, adding exponential notations and fractions! And those are just off the top of my head. From what I've read it sounds like your family is a lot the same. :)
***And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters or working on
it as a skill.***
How about working on the computer? Does he like to type? He could find the birds he likes online and print them out?
How about you writing it for him so he can at least have a start on the list. Does he like to take pictures? Would he want to make a picture book of the birds he sees? That way the interest would be documented.
Earlier you said he has memorized some poems, is he interested in writing them down? I know my son is the same way with writing. If I had to prove he was actually writing,,,,, <G>
Maybe if you get enough other stuff documented, all the things that he is doing, the writing part won't be an issue?
***And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other kids learn.***
As we were getting and are still getting our school thinking out our brains, my kids will sometimes make similar comments. We've discussed that people all learn in different ways and we all have different kinds of smarts. This seems to really help. My own father is the same type of learner as my son and has the same kind-of intelligence. Highly mechanical and logical and it doesn't look like they learn anything, by book standard. But they know sooooo much. Its all up there.
We sometimes have to have these kind-of pep talks after they've spent time with kids who are in school. One good thing though is that the talks are coming less and less. They are starting to come and tell me how they are dealing with the questions and doubts of others. :)
Kelli~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***I'm now just concerned about showing that he is learning in a way that satisfies the state.***
Julie,
What state are you in and what kind of requirements do you have? That info might help me and others in making suggestions.
***Usually my other two who are
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and leaves.***
My 11 ds is the same way. Even if you aren't making artificial ways to teach, it seems like the Family Math thing strikes out with some kids. I brought that home from the library once and it did not go over well. I think to them it was still premeditated. Ya know, not just living our lives, we weren't just playing a game cuz it looks fun. We were playing Family "Math". I don't know, maybe I wasn't a good enough salelperson on that, but I do know that the kids are learning tons of math, numbers, and logical reasoning from doing what they/we like. Our conversations alone have gone over algebraic equations, adding exponential notations and fractions! And those are just off the top of my head. From what I've read it sounds like your family is a lot the same. :)
***And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of writing prevents him
from keeping it up. Yet he has no interest in working on forming the letters or working on
it as a skill.***
How about working on the computer? Does he like to type? He could find the birds he likes online and print them out?
How about you writing it for him so he can at least have a start on the list. Does he like to take pictures? Would he want to make a picture book of the birds he sees? That way the interest would be documented.
Earlier you said he has memorized some poems, is he interested in writing them down? I know my son is the same way with writing. If I had to prove he was actually writing,,,,, <G>
Maybe if you get enough other stuff documented, all the things that he is doing, the writing part won't be an issue?
***And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other kids learn.***
As we were getting and are still getting our school thinking out our brains, my kids will sometimes make similar comments. We've discussed that people all learn in different ways and we all have different kinds of smarts. This seems to really help. My own father is the same type of learner as my son and has the same kind-of intelligence. Highly mechanical and logical and it doesn't look like they learn anything, by book standard. But they know sooooo much. Its all up there.
We sometimes have to have these kind-of pep talks after they've spent time with kids who are in school. One good thing though is that the talks are coming less and less. They are starting to come and tell me how they are dealing with the questions and doubts of others. :)
Kelli~
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Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**Usually my other two who are
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on
the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and
leaves.**
Hey, Julie --
I have a ten year old boy who approaches most new things in life very
reluctantly. Computer games are a favorite passtime of his and he
doesn't write.
I'm just packing to leave for a three day trip, but if you want to email
me privately, we can chat some more. I'm getting to the point that I
don't want to post critical stuff about my child on the internet.
** And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that
indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other
kids learn.
**
Self talk can be powerful, and especially negative self talk. I just
noticed about myself that when I see really sophisticated quilts I say
"I could never do that", which is silly, because I can make beautiful
simple quilts now, and in five or ten years I'll be making much more
complex quilts than I am now.
Betsy
home with me are rarin' to go. My ten year old usually listens while on
the computer.
Occasionally he will join us, but he then gets frustrated or bored and
leaves.**
Hey, Julie --
I have a ten year old boy who approaches most new things in life very
reluctantly. Computer games are a favorite passtime of his and he
doesn't write.
I'm just packing to leave for a three day trip, but if you want to email
me privately, we can chat some more. I'm getting to the point that I
don't want to post critical stuff about my child on the internet.
** And, he is sometimes inclined to make self-deprecating comments that
indicate to me
that he doesn't think of himself as smart of able to learn what other
kids learn.
**
Self talk can be powerful, and especially negative self talk. I just
noticed about myself that when I see really sophisticated quilts I say
"I could never do that", which is silly, because I can make beautiful
simple quilts now, and in five or ten years I'll be making much more
complex quilts than I am now.
Betsy
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
when we're in the field bird watching and he needs to write stuff down then. I don't mind
doing it. That's not the problem. It's more just the idea that he hasn't got that skill as a
resource.
Sandra was saying that all kids have bad handwriting at that age. I agree. I say so myself to
my homeschool families when I teach writing. But his isn't just "poor," he finds it hard to
do and is a leftie on top of it. He tires quickly.
I really understand this. I'm studying Greek right now and copying two lines of Greek
wears me right out!
But I'm motivated to do it. I have past successes to prod me forward.
He doesn't and I don't want him to assume that if something like writing is hard for him
that it means it's off limits too. Does that make sense?
I want for him so much to feel that he can do whatever he puts his energy toward. That
isn't what I get from him when we talk.
Thanks!
Julie B
>He types really well and has asked me if he can always just type everything. He can, except
> He can use the computer to write his bird lists. I like that better for
> lists, anyway. Any computer at least has notepad, or, if he knows someone who
> would be interested in his list, he could email them the list. It's nice to
> have an intended audience when writing.
when we're in the field bird watching and he needs to write stuff down then. I don't mind
doing it. That's not the problem. It's more just the idea that he hasn't got that skill as a
resource.
Sandra was saying that all kids have bad handwriting at that age. I agree. I say so myself to
my homeschool families when I teach writing. But his isn't just "poor," he finds it hard to
do and is a leftie on top of it. He tires quickly.
I really understand this. I'm studying Greek right now and copying two lines of Greek
wears me right out!
But I'm motivated to do it. I have past successes to prod me forward.
He doesn't and I don't want him to assume that if something like writing is hard for him
that it means it's off limits too. Does that make sense?
I want for him so much to feel that he can do whatever he puts his energy toward. That
isn't what I get from him when we talk.
>The post-it note idea is a good one. I like that.
> We use the bird guide with post-its to keep up with the birds we've seen in
> the yard. He could draw a sketch of each bird he sees and put it in a file.
> There are lots of way to keep up with stuff like that.
Thanks!
Julie B
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@y...> wrote:
Hi Kelli.
>
> What state are you in and what kind of requirements do you have? That info might help
me and others in making suggestions.
Ohio. We meet with a certified teacher who looks over our work for the year and then
certifies that we've met our goals for the year and that the child has "progressed" one
grade level. My evaluator is very relaxed and supportive, but she does still have to have
something to say about math and writing. :)
>> it seems like the Family Math thing strikes out with some kids. I brought that home
from the library once and it did not go over well. I think to them it was still premeditated.
Ya know, not just living our lives, we weren't just playing a game cuz it looks fun. We
were playing Family "Math".
Yeah, same for us with him. Yu-Gi-Oh worked well for a long time but he lost interest and
when we played Monopoly the other night, it was like all that knowledge of adding,
subtracting he had gained was gone.
>
> How about you writing it for him so he can at least have a start on the list. Does he like
to take pictures? Would he want to make a picture book of the birds he sees? That way
the interest would be documented.
We can come up with ways to keep track of the birds he sees. No problem. I was using that
to illustrate that even with sufficient motivation, writing is something he chooses to avoid
no matter what. He also hates to draw or color. Being a leftie is part of it. He just doesn't
like to hold pencils.
> Earlier you said he has memorized some poems, is he interested in writing them down?
Nope. :)
>> I know my son is the same way with writing. If I had to prove he was actually
writing,,,,, <G>
That's the bug-a-boo. You've nailed it.
>
> Maybe if you get enough other stuff documented, all the things that he is doing, the
writing part won't be an issue?
I'm hoping so. I also think I can tell her that he is working on it slowly (one thing he did
this year was write on a White Board. We'd post a long word and the kids would see how
many other words they could make from it. He loved this and would contribute here and
there (horrid writing, hard to read, too big, too small - but spelled right!). He did that a
few times. He also copied one poem. He's very bright, is the thing. I don't doubt his smarts
or ability to learn. It's just these two bug-a-boos. I think the handwriting and math I used
to require before we made the big switch is still a bad memory and perhaps even after 18
mos., he's still gunshy.
>>We've discussed that people all learn in different ways and we all have different kinds of
smarts. This seems to really help.
That's good. i'll have to remember to do that with him especially.
>
> We sometimes have to have these kind-of pep talks after they've spent time with kids
who are in school. One good thing though is that the talks are coming less and less. They
are starting to come and tell me how they are dealing with the questions and doubts of
others. :)
Cool! thanks so much for your help.
Julie
TreeGoddess
On Jul 7, 2004, at 12:20 PM, Julie Bogart wrote:
hand 'drags' over what you just wrote you end up getting it all over
the side of your hand. I don't think that holding a pencil, in
general, is 'hard' for us lefties. However, the "correct" way to GRASP
the pen or pencil for righties doesn't usually work well for lefties.
My parents and teachers tried (unsuccessfully) for years to MAKE me
hold my pen(cil) differently because I was doing it "wrong". It works
for me just fine even though it looks really weird and uncomfortable to
others.
Also, using spiral bound notebooks SUCK for lefties. Those metal
spirals really hurt the soft underside our forearms and wrists! I've
seen them with the spiral on the right, but they're often expensive.
Just a regular old notepad (glue bound) works better for me.
Could you take him to an art supply store and have him pick out some
cool pens and markers to use? Maybe he would like one of those rubbery
tubes that you can slip on your pen(cil) to make the grip area
fatter/softer?
Just throwing some ideas out there. ;)
-Tracy-
> [ We can come up with ways to keep track of the birds he sees. NoI'm a lefty. Using markers or pens is sometimes a PITA because as your
> problem. I was using that
> to illustrate that even with sufficient motivation, writing is
> something he chooses to avoid
> no matter what. He also hates to draw or color. Being a leftie is part
> of it. He just doesn't
> like to hold pencils. ]
hand 'drags' over what you just wrote you end up getting it all over
the side of your hand. I don't think that holding a pencil, in
general, is 'hard' for us lefties. However, the "correct" way to GRASP
the pen or pencil for righties doesn't usually work well for lefties.
My parents and teachers tried (unsuccessfully) for years to MAKE me
hold my pen(cil) differently because I was doing it "wrong". It works
for me just fine even though it looks really weird and uncomfortable to
others.
Also, using spiral bound notebooks SUCK for lefties. Those metal
spirals really hurt the soft underside our forearms and wrists! I've
seen them with the spiral on the right, but they're often expensive.
Just a regular old notepad (glue bound) works better for me.
Could you take him to an art supply store and have him pick out some
cool pens and markers to use? Maybe he would like one of those rubbery
tubes that you can slip on your pen(cil) to make the grip area
fatter/softer?
Just throwing some ideas out there. ;)
-Tracy-
nellebelle
>>>>Ohio. We meet with a certified teacher who looks over our work for theyear and then certifies that we've met our goals for the year and that the
child has "progressed" one grade level. My evaluator is very relaxed and
supportive, but she does still have to have something to say about math and
writing. :)>>>>>
Keep in mind that kids in school do not all progress exactly one grade level
each year. If he is overall showing progress, but the evaluator comments
that one or two areas "need improving", well, so what? That makes him
normal :-)
Maybe your son doesn't need to see or hear the final report. In Washington
state, our law says that the annual test or assessment is for the PARENTS.
It is a tool for us to "make a good faith effort to remedy any
deficiencies".
>>>>I was using that to illustrate that even with sufficient motivation,writing is something he chooses to avoid no matter what. He also hates to
draw or color. Being a leftie is part of it. He just doesn't like to hold
pencils.>>>>
In our pre-unschooling days, dd hated writing. I stopped asking her to do
ANY writing. Now age 11, she keeps a journal and will do some writing on
her own, will help her sister write, and will do things like make a grocery
list for me. She doesn't write a lot, and still comments now and then that
she doesn't like to write, but she will do it when SHE has a reason for
doing so. She uses the computer regularly too.
Although I can write easily, I prefer to use the computer for any writing
more than a paragraph or so.
> > Earlier you said he has memorized some poems, is he interested inwriting them down?
>Record them! He can recite them into a tape player or to a video camera
> Nope. :)>>>>>
(either with an audience or on his own in private). There are computer
programs for recording too. You will need to buy a microphone if your
computer doesn't have one built in. Prices range from a few dollars up to
$30 or more. If you have windows, go to "start", "programs", "accessories",
"entertainment", "sound recorder". My kids have had a blast with this. A
couple of times they have pretended they were radio djs, introducing music
then playing it on a nearby boom box.
Mary Ellen
Aimee
<<I have past successes to prod me forward.>>
What are some past successes in his life? A video
game that was really tough at first, but that he beat?
Only knowing a few birds at first but now knowing
30-40 and being able to describe them all?
<<He doesn't and I don't want him to assume that if
something like
writing is hard for him
that it means it's off limits too. Does that make
sense? >>
Makes perfect sense. It's tough to know your child is
frustrated, and that he's not working thru that
frustration in order to be successful, because it's
that feeling of success that makes all the frustration
worth it. At this point it seems like the frustration
is all he's feeling? The thing is, it has to be
important enough to him to work it thru, and you seem
to be saying nothing is really that important to him
right now. It's tough, but that's ok. He doesn't
have to, right now.
<<I want for him so much to feel that he can do
whatever he puts his
energy toward. That
isn't what I get from him when we talk.>>
Has he always been like this, or is it worse or more
extreme these days? If so, I would like to gently
remind you that he's growing, fast, physically and
emotionally, and that is enough to handle at one time.
There might be lots of stuff going on with him that
you're unaware of. At this age, ( my son is 10 as
well) I've noticed that stuff surprises me much more
often, about him. He's more independent and I'm just
not as aware. But lots is going on, it's just that I
don't see it as much as I used to. I'm not in on the
process as much as I used to be.
That's the great thing about unschooling, patience and
time is available to him, as much as he needs and
wants. Try to remind yourself of that, because it's
possible he's picking up your wants for him as
pressure on himself. He's going at his own pace, and
like you said about reading, he'll do it eventually,
when he needs it, when it's important enough to him.
I've been having some doubts, too, at this age, about
multiplication tables, and his writing. My son just
left a note for my husband on the door asking him to
do something for him. Everything is spelled correctly,
and it's messy, but legible. Not much punctuation,
everything capital except for the i's. lol
Dada Look formy game boy in the back seat of the car
if you find it bring it upstairs
I didn't know "for my" was one word! lol The point is,
it probably took him a while, but he wrote it because
he wanted his game boy!
Multiplication, every once in a while I mention that
memorizing is good because it's faster when you need
it. But I still don't know some of the table, and I
do fine. He knows this too. Some people just don't
have a sticking place in their brain for the times
tables. lol
I rambled, but I hope I helped a little.
~Aimee
What are some past successes in his life? A video
game that was really tough at first, but that he beat?
Only knowing a few birds at first but now knowing
30-40 and being able to describe them all?
<<He doesn't and I don't want him to assume that if
something like
writing is hard for him
that it means it's off limits too. Does that make
sense? >>
Makes perfect sense. It's tough to know your child is
frustrated, and that he's not working thru that
frustration in order to be successful, because it's
that feeling of success that makes all the frustration
worth it. At this point it seems like the frustration
is all he's feeling? The thing is, it has to be
important enough to him to work it thru, and you seem
to be saying nothing is really that important to him
right now. It's tough, but that's ok. He doesn't
have to, right now.
<<I want for him so much to feel that he can do
whatever he puts his
energy toward. That
isn't what I get from him when we talk.>>
Has he always been like this, or is it worse or more
extreme these days? If so, I would like to gently
remind you that he's growing, fast, physically and
emotionally, and that is enough to handle at one time.
There might be lots of stuff going on with him that
you're unaware of. At this age, ( my son is 10 as
well) I've noticed that stuff surprises me much more
often, about him. He's more independent and I'm just
not as aware. But lots is going on, it's just that I
don't see it as much as I used to. I'm not in on the
process as much as I used to be.
That's the great thing about unschooling, patience and
time is available to him, as much as he needs and
wants. Try to remind yourself of that, because it's
possible he's picking up your wants for him as
pressure on himself. He's going at his own pace, and
like you said about reading, he'll do it eventually,
when he needs it, when it's important enough to him.
I've been having some doubts, too, at this age, about
multiplication tables, and his writing. My son just
left a note for my husband on the door asking him to
do something for him. Everything is spelled correctly,
and it's messy, but legible. Not much punctuation,
everything capital except for the i's. lol
Dada Look formy game boy in the back seat of the car
if you find it bring it upstairs
I didn't know "for my" was one word! lol The point is,
it probably took him a while, but he wrote it because
he wanted his game boy!
Multiplication, every once in a while I mention that
memorizing is good because it's faster when you need
it. But I still don't know some of the table, and I
do fine. He knows this too. Some people just don't
have a sticking place in their brain for the times
tables. lol
I rambled, but I hope I helped a little.
~Aimee
Aimee
Do you have a learning/teaching store around? They
have cool stuff like really fat pencils, crayons, etc,
and they also have those little triangle shaped
cushions that you can put on pens or pencils. I have
no idea if they would help, but they're out there.
There are also tons of different *ways* to hold
pens/pencils that might be more comfortable than the
way he first learned to do so. My son was getting
calluses and learned a different way to hold his
pencil, that helped him.
~Aimee
<<He also hates to draw or color. Being a leftie is
part
of it. He just doesn't
like to hold pencils.
have cool stuff like really fat pencils, crayons, etc,
and they also have those little triangle shaped
cushions that you can put on pens or pencils. I have
no idea if they would help, but they're out there.
There are also tons of different *ways* to hold
pens/pencils that might be more comfortable than the
way he first learned to do so. My son was getting
calluses and learned a different way to hold his
pencil, that helped him.
~Aimee
<<He also hates to draw or color. Being a leftie is
part
of it. He just doesn't
like to hold pencils.
Deb Lewis
***And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore of
writing prevents him
from keeping it up.***
Julie, this doesn't have anything to do with your son writing but if he
wants to keep a bird list he could use an audio recorder of some sort.
There are high tech cool things now but a simple personal tape recorder
would work. He could record the date, location, weather conditions, time
of day, birds seen, etc. *If* he wanted to type it later he could, and
if he didn't he could label and store the tapes just like he would a
field notebook when it was full. He could catalog the corresponding
sketch books with the tapes, too.
Deb L
writing prevents him
from keeping it up.***
Julie, this doesn't have anything to do with your son writing but if he
wants to keep a bird list he could use an audio recorder of some sort.
There are high tech cool things now but a simple personal tape recorder
would work. He could record the date, location, weather conditions, time
of day, birds seen, etc. *If* he wanted to type it later he could, and
if he didn't he could label and store the tapes just like he would a
field notebook when it was full. He could catalog the corresponding
sketch books with the tapes, too.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/7/04 12:54:49 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< There are high tech cool things now but a simple personal tape recorder
would work. He could record the date, location, weather conditions, time
of day, birds seen, etc. *If* he wanted to type it later he could, and
if he didn't he could label and store the tapes just like he would a
field notebook when it was full. He could catalog the corresponding
sketch books with the tapes, too. >>
Or his assistant could transcribe for him, just like in the real professional
world.
Sandra
<< There are high tech cool things now but a simple personal tape recorder
would work. He could record the date, location, weather conditions, time
of day, birds seen, etc. *If* he wanted to type it later he could, and
if he didn't he could label and store the tapes just like he would a
field notebook when it was full. He could catalog the corresponding
sketch books with the tapes, too. >>
Or his assistant could transcribe for him, just like in the real professional
world.
Sandra
Penn Acres
Hi.In Kindergarten one of the girls was singled out right from day one as needing correction on how she held her pencil. Admittedly in a very strange way. Her teacher gave her a rubber traingle shaped thingy to put on her pencil. I "helpfully" bought a couple more for her to use at home. We were all on her like gum on a stick everytime she was supposed to write something. They both got "eagle eye" comments on how they formed their letters. They Had to start from the bottom ( or was that the top ? ;-) )
We started Homeschooling half way through Kindergarten. We did relaxed homeschooling-I continued to "helpfully" get them to hold their pencils in the "right" way. To form their letters in the "right" way. One became anxious-one became defiant-then they both became anxious and defiant. I asked for only a little writing-same thing. No way did they Ever try to write anything on their own.
Last year they went back to school ( grade 2 ) one for 3/4 of the year the other for part of two weeks.
The teacher of one sent homework the very first day that consisted of practicing printing the Right way. No way did it get even attempted.
My mental jouney thru all of this for three years had now led me to understand Unschooling -we started in May of last year. One year later. They write reams of stuff from their NeoPets games. My computer desk is full of it-they ask dozens of times a day how to spell words. I can read their printing. I never comment on it. I dont know or care where they start their letters.they do write clearer than my doctors-LOL
All that rubber thingies-practice etc. leads to is a feeling that They are not good enough to write-that nothing they write is quite good enough. -rubber aids point it out to them every minute.
My handwriting is awful-I had all kinds of instruction. Before computers I wrote a Lot-I love words-
I bought a big book from a used book store that had dozens of decorative and unusual ways of making letters. I give them calligraphy type pens-I show them how to make big fancy scrolley letters-they have 4x8 blackboards in their room (blackboard paint on masonite) they have colored chalk. They play with writing-their friends play with writing-Its coming. I believe that one of the girls would "never" have written for fun if I had continued my path or the school path.
I am always reminding myself to back off and get out of their business- Its coming.
grace
in the cloudy and Chilly mountains in the East Kootenays.
where we went to see Spiderman last night and it was pretty neat.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We started Homeschooling half way through Kindergarten. We did relaxed homeschooling-I continued to "helpfully" get them to hold their pencils in the "right" way. To form their letters in the "right" way. One became anxious-one became defiant-then they both became anxious and defiant. I asked for only a little writing-same thing. No way did they Ever try to write anything on their own.
Last year they went back to school ( grade 2 ) one for 3/4 of the year the other for part of two weeks.
The teacher of one sent homework the very first day that consisted of practicing printing the Right way. No way did it get even attempted.
My mental jouney thru all of this for three years had now led me to understand Unschooling -we started in May of last year. One year later. They write reams of stuff from their NeoPets games. My computer desk is full of it-they ask dozens of times a day how to spell words. I can read their printing. I never comment on it. I dont know or care where they start their letters.they do write clearer than my doctors-LOL
All that rubber thingies-practice etc. leads to is a feeling that They are not good enough to write-that nothing they write is quite good enough. -rubber aids point it out to them every minute.
My handwriting is awful-I had all kinds of instruction. Before computers I wrote a Lot-I love words-
I bought a big book from a used book store that had dozens of decorative and unusual ways of making letters. I give them calligraphy type pens-I show them how to make big fancy scrolley letters-they have 4x8 blackboards in their room (blackboard paint on masonite) they have colored chalk. They play with writing-their friends play with writing-Its coming. I believe that one of the girls would "never" have written for fun if I had continued my path or the school path.
I am always reminding myself to back off and get out of their business- Its coming.
grace
in the cloudy and Chilly mountains in the East Kootenays.
where we went to see Spiderman last night and it was pretty neat.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sara
"And with writing, he has a bird list he wants to keep but the chore
of writing prevents him from keeping it up."
Julie...same problem here with a lefty, both of us are. Pete's 13 now
and his printing sux so I talked to him about writing and told him
that down the road he'd want to write. He decided then to try cursive
and he did very well. It was a slow process and I did not rush him or
do much more than suggest a page a day,(a page had two small
sentences.) He did what he wanted and it was beautiful. He was very
proud....to me it was like artwork; I felt like framing it, it was
classically glorious!
He types and writes in cursive slowly when he needs to or uses crappy
print...I know that when the time comes and he gets tired of being
slow....he'll practise something just as he practised cursive. I
can't teach him either...he basically told me me to take a hike when
he was six. I just let him know that some things like that take
practise and practise is not always fun. That's one of those "life's
not fair!" issues that I smile about but it concerned me greatly for
years so I hid it.
On spirals, show him how to start at the back and use it so that the
damn wires don't get him. Who sez you can't write backwards in your
own journal?
Many times I've told Pete that some things are worth doing even if
they aren't very interesting. I then show him how and provide
material to help. Then I butt out unless he asks. He gets to choose.
Sometimes I wonder if I give him the right stuff to help him
assimilate, I'm not sure I understand his learning style. Even though
I've read Howard Gardner, (or is it Thomas Armstong? I can't
remember!), I don't think I match up info right for him.
I've always wished someone would help me with this....gotta run Sara
of writing prevents him from keeping it up."
Julie...same problem here with a lefty, both of us are. Pete's 13 now
and his printing sux so I talked to him about writing and told him
that down the road he'd want to write. He decided then to try cursive
and he did very well. It was a slow process and I did not rush him or
do much more than suggest a page a day,(a page had two small
sentences.) He did what he wanted and it was beautiful. He was very
proud....to me it was like artwork; I felt like framing it, it was
classically glorious!
He types and writes in cursive slowly when he needs to or uses crappy
print...I know that when the time comes and he gets tired of being
slow....he'll practise something just as he practised cursive. I
can't teach him either...he basically told me me to take a hike when
he was six. I just let him know that some things like that take
practise and practise is not always fun. That's one of those "life's
not fair!" issues that I smile about but it concerned me greatly for
years so I hid it.
On spirals, show him how to start at the back and use it so that the
damn wires don't get him. Who sez you can't write backwards in your
own journal?
Many times I've told Pete that some things are worth doing even if
they aren't very interesting. I then show him how and provide
material to help. Then I butt out unless he asks. He gets to choose.
Sometimes I wonder if I give him the right stuff to help him
assimilate, I'm not sure I understand his learning style. Even though
I've read Howard Gardner, (or is it Thomas Armstong? I can't
remember!), I don't think I match up info right for him.
I've always wished someone would help me with this....gotta run Sara
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/7/04 8:02:34 PM, cheeps4u@... writes:
<< Sometimes I wonder if I give him the right stuff to help him
assimilate, I'm not sure I understand his learning style. Even though
I've read Howard Gardner, (or is it Thomas Armstong? I can't
remember!), I don't think I match up info right for him. >>
If you give them access to all kinds of stuff, you don't need to understand
their learning style. They will use what works for them without you having to
pre-test, analyze, track or follow up.
The point of much of the alternative education and applied cognition research
is this: Sitting in rows reciting and writing isn't the way to teach a big
group. You need to have things they can hear, and see, and touch, and read,
and some kids will learn from all but one, or from all, or from two.
But schools perverted that into "first we have to know each child's learning
style."
No, you don't. You only need to know that kids HAVE all kinds of learning
styles, and not one apiece. The idea was to expose them all to all forms of
input.
With unschooling, you can actually do it.
Sandra
<< Sometimes I wonder if I give him the right stuff to help him
assimilate, I'm not sure I understand his learning style. Even though
I've read Howard Gardner, (or is it Thomas Armstong? I can't
remember!), I don't think I match up info right for him. >>
If you give them access to all kinds of stuff, you don't need to understand
their learning style. They will use what works for them without you having to
pre-test, analyze, track or follow up.
The point of much of the alternative education and applied cognition research
is this: Sitting in rows reciting and writing isn't the way to teach a big
group. You need to have things they can hear, and see, and touch, and read,
and some kids will learn from all but one, or from all, or from two.
But schools perverted that into "first we have to know each child's learning
style."
No, you don't. You only need to know that kids HAVE all kinds of learning
styles, and not one apiece. The idea was to expose them all to all forms of
input.
With unschooling, you can actually do it.
Sandra
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], Aimee <aimeel73@s...>
wrote:
crayons that look like this:
http://naturalplay.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/waxsquares.html
HTH,
aj
wrote:
> Do you have a learning/teaching store around? TheyI googled "beeswax crayons" and founds sites with these square
> have cool stuff like really fat pencils, crayons, etc,
> and they also have those little triangle shaped
> cushions that you can put on pens or pencils. I have
> no idea if they would help, but they're out there.
crayons that look like this:
http://naturalplay.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/waxsquares.html
HTH,
aj
TreeGoddess
We have that shape of crayons from the Stockmar line and the kids love
them -- well, so do I. ;) They have been unbreakable thus far and are
long lasting. The kids have been using them for 3+ years now!
-Tracy-
them -- well, so do I. ;) They have been unbreakable thus far and are
long lasting. The kids have been using them for 3+ years now!
-Tracy-
On Jul 8, 2004, at 12:24 PM, mamaaj2000 wrote:
> I googled "beeswax crayons" and founds sites with these square
> crayons that look like this:
>
> http://naturalplay.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/waxsquares.html
Sara
"No, you don't. You only need to know that kids HAVE all kinds of
learning
styles, and not one apiece. The idea was to expose them all to all
forms of
input.
With unschooling, you can actually do it." Sandra
Guess I'm doing OK then. Sara
learning
styles, and not one apiece. The idea was to expose them all to all
forms of
input.
With unschooling, you can actually do it." Sandra
Guess I'm doing OK then. Sara