My husband sums it up
Julie Bogart
Last night we were talking about our kids after 18 mos of unschooling. We are amazed at
them all, yet they don't fit even what our pictures of unschooling might look like. (So glad I
let go of those images - you know building science labs in the basement, publishing
novels at age ten and becoming musical prodigies...)
We were discussing our son's love of Klingon. Noah told me he found Klingon because he
had clicked on the Google language preferences option. He tried out each of the
langauges to see how Google looked in that language.
When he got to Klingon, he found it entirely fascinating and thus began what is now a six
month study of the language. He's got a notebook where he translates stuff he reads and
last night he showed me the first printed page of his personal Klingon dictationary. All
from unlimited time on the computer...
My 7 yo daughter yesterday shopped with me at Old Navy yesterday. She wanted to add up
her purchases on the way home and said, "Yippee! Homeschool math."
We worked through the adding, then we counted backwards, then we skip counted. She
had the best time. And it covered in one fifteen minute conversation what she had spent
six months trying to learn before unschooling.
I have no idea how she learned any of the computations she does on her fingers, but she's
doing them.
My 9 yo son told me about some very complicated Internet game playing for Warcraft
(can't reproduce it here because I really have no clue about that game!) But I sat there with
jaw dropped at all that he's learned about the game, Internet ettiquette, and a host of
other stuff.
So last night after talking about all this, my husband said...
"You know, I don't think there's a difference between learning subjects or learning what
interests you. It's all learning.
"The important thing is that learning is happening and I just don't think it is in school for
many kids. The learning mechanism needs to be turned on and then the subject matter
doesn't matter at all... but if it's shut down or turned off, all the great educational ideas in
the world won't equal learning or education."
Yes!
Julie B
(Whose husband works in the text book industry as a writer/editor and teaches freshman
English at a university)
them all, yet they don't fit even what our pictures of unschooling might look like. (So glad I
let go of those images - you know building science labs in the basement, publishing
novels at age ten and becoming musical prodigies...)
We were discussing our son's love of Klingon. Noah told me he found Klingon because he
had clicked on the Google language preferences option. He tried out each of the
langauges to see how Google looked in that language.
When he got to Klingon, he found it entirely fascinating and thus began what is now a six
month study of the language. He's got a notebook where he translates stuff he reads and
last night he showed me the first printed page of his personal Klingon dictationary. All
from unlimited time on the computer...
My 7 yo daughter yesterday shopped with me at Old Navy yesterday. She wanted to add up
her purchases on the way home and said, "Yippee! Homeschool math."
We worked through the adding, then we counted backwards, then we skip counted. She
had the best time. And it covered in one fifteen minute conversation what she had spent
six months trying to learn before unschooling.
I have no idea how she learned any of the computations she does on her fingers, but she's
doing them.
My 9 yo son told me about some very complicated Internet game playing for Warcraft
(can't reproduce it here because I really have no clue about that game!) But I sat there with
jaw dropped at all that he's learned about the game, Internet ettiquette, and a host of
other stuff.
So last night after talking about all this, my husband said...
"You know, I don't think there's a difference between learning subjects or learning what
interests you. It's all learning.
"The important thing is that learning is happening and I just don't think it is in school for
many kids. The learning mechanism needs to be turned on and then the subject matter
doesn't matter at all... but if it's shut down or turned off, all the great educational ideas in
the world won't equal learning or education."
Yes!
Julie B
(Whose husband works in the text book industry as a writer/editor and teaches freshman
English at a university)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/04 8:48:58 AM, julie@... writes:
<< "The important thing is that learning is happening and I just don't think
it is in school for many kids. The learning mechanism needs to be turned on
and then the subject matter doesn't matter at all... but if it's shut down or
turned off, all the great educational ideas in the world won't equal learning or
education." >>
That's so cool, Julie, the whole story, and I'm glad your husband is
enthusiastic. I'm glad he's not going to so nervous about how they'll compare to
other new college students.
Most of the kids I went to school with definitely had their learning
mechanisms turned off. They had given up on caring, or finding things interesting.
They went through school like zombies.
I kept caring, and still do. I don't know what the difference was. But I
did get frustrated with the teachers, many of whom were likewise zombiefied and
didn't care. They were going through the motions and rather than discuss math
or history or whatever *I* thought should have been their passion, they would
knock me out if the happy air with "You don't need to know that this year" or
"That won't be on the test."
There were a few who WOULD talk about things. Music teachers. Art teachers.
A couple of my English teachers were thrilled by a good question and would
actually talk about things I didn't need to know because they wouldn't "be on
the test." But I never personally remember a science teacher or math or
history who would. If you knew their hobby or personal passion, you might get them
going for a little bit. Mr. Clark, my New Mexico history teacher in 7th
grade, LOVED South America and could go on and on. Unfortunately, I didn't care
about that. Miss Gonzales, my 4th grade teacher, really liked dinosaurs, and
history, and she would talk "off duty."
But there was an undercurrent of what wasn't cool to do, and it wasn't cool
to WANT to know more just for fun, and it wasn't cool for teachers to do more
than they were being paid to do. Luckily for me, I knew how to nose out those
who were willing to be uncool. <g>
Mr. Trujillo, my 6th grade teacher, had a spark in him about nature and local
geography. He was a sportsman, and also just had a good memory for who was
related to whom and where their grandparents lived. Howard Gardner calls that
kind of categorization and thinking "nature intelligence." Mr. Trujillo knew
what and who things were and what they were related to and how. That was fun
for me.
Mr. Felix, my band teacher from 5th to 9th, was a trivia bank. When he knew
or cared about something he knew ALL about it. Cuban drums. John Phillip
Sousa. When there was something he didn't know or care about that was fine,
because when he did know he lit up.
Maybe my memories of knowing where to find input and of knowing which
teachers were how were because I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was six, and
I was kind of out interviewing/apprenticing. I noticed who was good with what
kinds of kids. I wish I'd had the overlay of the Gardner intelligence
theories then. I'd've been ahead of my time. <g> And it would have helped me see
WHY some of what I was seeing was happening.
Teaching is an art. Some are naturally good at it. Some never click. I
wonder if it's the other side of the love-to-learn coin? Or whether it's just a
flexibility of stance that allows them to be upright when things change or
people are different around them.
Kirby's a good teacher, and he has lots of opportunity to practice, at the
karate dojo and the gaming shop and sometimes in the SCA, with younger kids. He
organized a "boffer seige" at Outlandish, and helped coach kids to be safe
and efficient and work together. Coaching, kind of, I suppose, but he designed
the scenario too, and persuaded adults to come and defend against his army of
40 kids, at 9:00 in the morning. <g>
I think unschooling needs some of that in the mix. Kids who are joyful,
parents who are curious and hopeful and flexible. The more the better, overall,
and some of it creates a lot more of itself.
School tells kids stuff is "stupid." Kids tell each other the subject matter
is stupid, and the teachers are stupid. Teachers tell kids their little
friends are troublemakers to say "stupid," and that the kids' interests are
stupid. And the kids can start to feel small and not trust their own judgment. I
don't know exactly how I got through school feeling pretty whole and making my
own decisions about who I would listen to and why, but somehow I did.
-=-You know, I don't think there's a difference between learning subjects or
learning what
interests you. It's all learning. -=-
That's so beautiful.
"Subjects" don't really exist outside of school anyway, but a full and
growing model of the universe, learned by connecting all possible interesting dots,
will eventually contain all that "subject matter." Painlessly. Seamlessly.
Naturally.
Sandra
<< "The important thing is that learning is happening and I just don't think
it is in school for many kids. The learning mechanism needs to be turned on
and then the subject matter doesn't matter at all... but if it's shut down or
turned off, all the great educational ideas in the world won't equal learning or
education." >>
That's so cool, Julie, the whole story, and I'm glad your husband is
enthusiastic. I'm glad he's not going to so nervous about how they'll compare to
other new college students.
Most of the kids I went to school with definitely had their learning
mechanisms turned off. They had given up on caring, or finding things interesting.
They went through school like zombies.
I kept caring, and still do. I don't know what the difference was. But I
did get frustrated with the teachers, many of whom were likewise zombiefied and
didn't care. They were going through the motions and rather than discuss math
or history or whatever *I* thought should have been their passion, they would
knock me out if the happy air with "You don't need to know that this year" or
"That won't be on the test."
There were a few who WOULD talk about things. Music teachers. Art teachers.
A couple of my English teachers were thrilled by a good question and would
actually talk about things I didn't need to know because they wouldn't "be on
the test." But I never personally remember a science teacher or math or
history who would. If you knew their hobby or personal passion, you might get them
going for a little bit. Mr. Clark, my New Mexico history teacher in 7th
grade, LOVED South America and could go on and on. Unfortunately, I didn't care
about that. Miss Gonzales, my 4th grade teacher, really liked dinosaurs, and
history, and she would talk "off duty."
But there was an undercurrent of what wasn't cool to do, and it wasn't cool
to WANT to know more just for fun, and it wasn't cool for teachers to do more
than they were being paid to do. Luckily for me, I knew how to nose out those
who were willing to be uncool. <g>
Mr. Trujillo, my 6th grade teacher, had a spark in him about nature and local
geography. He was a sportsman, and also just had a good memory for who was
related to whom and where their grandparents lived. Howard Gardner calls that
kind of categorization and thinking "nature intelligence." Mr. Trujillo knew
what and who things were and what they were related to and how. That was fun
for me.
Mr. Felix, my band teacher from 5th to 9th, was a trivia bank. When he knew
or cared about something he knew ALL about it. Cuban drums. John Phillip
Sousa. When there was something he didn't know or care about that was fine,
because when he did know he lit up.
Maybe my memories of knowing where to find input and of knowing which
teachers were how were because I wanted to be a teacher from the time I was six, and
I was kind of out interviewing/apprenticing. I noticed who was good with what
kinds of kids. I wish I'd had the overlay of the Gardner intelligence
theories then. I'd've been ahead of my time. <g> And it would have helped me see
WHY some of what I was seeing was happening.
Teaching is an art. Some are naturally good at it. Some never click. I
wonder if it's the other side of the love-to-learn coin? Or whether it's just a
flexibility of stance that allows them to be upright when things change or
people are different around them.
Kirby's a good teacher, and he has lots of opportunity to practice, at the
karate dojo and the gaming shop and sometimes in the SCA, with younger kids. He
organized a "boffer seige" at Outlandish, and helped coach kids to be safe
and efficient and work together. Coaching, kind of, I suppose, but he designed
the scenario too, and persuaded adults to come and defend against his army of
40 kids, at 9:00 in the morning. <g>
I think unschooling needs some of that in the mix. Kids who are joyful,
parents who are curious and hopeful and flexible. The more the better, overall,
and some of it creates a lot more of itself.
School tells kids stuff is "stupid." Kids tell each other the subject matter
is stupid, and the teachers are stupid. Teachers tell kids their little
friends are troublemakers to say "stupid," and that the kids' interests are
stupid. And the kids can start to feel small and not trust their own judgment. I
don't know exactly how I got through school feeling pretty whole and making my
own decisions about who I would listen to and why, but somehow I did.
-=-You know, I don't think there's a difference between learning subjects or
learning what
interests you. It's all learning. -=-
That's so beautiful.
"Subjects" don't really exist outside of school anyway, but a full and
growing model of the universe, learned by connecting all possible interesting dots,
will eventually contain all that "subject matter." Painlessly. Seamlessly.
Naturally.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/2004 11:53:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
There were a few who WOULD talk about things. Music teachers. Art
teachers.
A couple of my English teachers were thrilled by a good question and would
actually talk about things I didn't need to know because they wouldn't "be
on
the test." But I never personally remember a science teacher or math or
history who would. If you knew their hobby or personal passion, you might
get them
going for a little bit.
<<<<
I had a wonderful Latin teacher, We called her "Aunt Mardi"---she was
Robert's aunt. Robert and I were the only two in Latin IV & V. We mostly read
Virgil's Aeneid. Well, we mostly got her off on some tangent! <g>
She stuttered horribly----but NOT when she recited poetry or read Latin.
THEN her voice was glorious! But we would be translating some passage about
Aeneas' fleeing with his dad and son from Troy; Robert would ask about the REAL
Troy, or building wooden horses, or the need to burn ancient cities.....and
before you knew it, the hour was over! <g> She was BRILLIANT and knew
everything about ancient Greece and Rome and loved to share it
So----two birds with one stone: No more translation PLUS we got to hear her
talk about whatever...and the stuttering made her story/explanation twice as
long! <G>
Oh! And she wasn't stupid! She knew what we were doing! <g> But she also was
so passionate about the Classics that she enjoyed talking about them.
She also loved Kipling and Lewis Carroll and would recite from them, leaving
us speechless!
I loved Aunt Mardi!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
There were a few who WOULD talk about things. Music teachers. Art
teachers.
A couple of my English teachers were thrilled by a good question and would
actually talk about things I didn't need to know because they wouldn't "be
on
the test." But I never personally remember a science teacher or math or
history who would. If you knew their hobby or personal passion, you might
get them
going for a little bit.
<<<<
I had a wonderful Latin teacher, We called her "Aunt Mardi"---she was
Robert's aunt. Robert and I were the only two in Latin IV & V. We mostly read
Virgil's Aeneid. Well, we mostly got her off on some tangent! <g>
She stuttered horribly----but NOT when she recited poetry or read Latin.
THEN her voice was glorious! But we would be translating some passage about
Aeneas' fleeing with his dad and son from Troy; Robert would ask about the REAL
Troy, or building wooden horses, or the need to burn ancient cities.....and
before you knew it, the hour was over! <g> She was BRILLIANT and knew
everything about ancient Greece and Rome and loved to share it
So----two birds with one stone: No more translation PLUS we got to hear her
talk about whatever...and the stuttering made her story/explanation twice as
long! <G>
Oh! And she wasn't stupid! She knew what we were doing! <g> But she also was
so passionate about the Classics that she enjoyed talking about them.
She also loved Kipling and Lewis Carroll and would recite from them, leaving
us speechless!
I loved Aunt Mardi!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dinalauzon
>Isnt' it sad, but I honestly don't remember ONE teacher I had that
> I loved Aunt Mardi!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
was really interested in anything they taught. Most of them you
could just tell that they hated their job, that they were putting in
time until retirement. I had one teacher that actually told us that
we would be utterly stupid to become a teacher. In his opinion it
was the worst and most underpaid job in the world! (He had been a
teacher for about 17 years by the time I had him)
What a sorry state the public school system was in and that was 14
years ago that I graduated. I can't even begin to imagine what it
is like today. :-(
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/2004 7:25:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dlauzon32@... writes:
Isnt' it sad, but I honestly don't remember ONE teacher I had that
was really interested in anything they taught. Most of them you
could just tell that they hated their job, that they were putting in
time until retirement.
<<<<
I only had a couple---REALLY---that were awful. Mrs Morrison in fifth and
sixth grade English---she was just biding her time until retirement. Jimmy
Gasque was my English teacher in 8th, 9th, & 10th; I leaned a lot from him
because he was passionate about grammar and literature and writing---and plus I was
naturally good at those things. But he ruled through fear: "Might is Right."
Looking back as an unschooling mom, I see that he is downright dangerous!
And finally Billy Shand----a cruel, sadistic, mean son of a bitch who hated and
belitted children. He turned me off history for twenty years! He's now an
episcopal minister----so you episcopalians, BEWARE!
The rest of my teachers were exceptional. Incredibly inspiring.
And still, here I am unschoolng my kids! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dlauzon32@... writes:
Isnt' it sad, but I honestly don't remember ONE teacher I had that
was really interested in anything they taught. Most of them you
could just tell that they hated their job, that they were putting in
time until retirement.
<<<<
I only had a couple---REALLY---that were awful. Mrs Morrison in fifth and
sixth grade English---she was just biding her time until retirement. Jimmy
Gasque was my English teacher in 8th, 9th, & 10th; I leaned a lot from him
because he was passionate about grammar and literature and writing---and plus I was
naturally good at those things. But he ruled through fear: "Might is Right."
Looking back as an unschooling mom, I see that he is downright dangerous!
And finally Billy Shand----a cruel, sadistic, mean son of a bitch who hated and
belitted children. He turned me off history for twenty years! He's now an
episcopal minister----so you episcopalians, BEWARE!
The rest of my teachers were exceptional. Incredibly inspiring.
And still, here I am unschoolng my kids! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tjreynoso
> But I never personally remember a science teacher or math orI had the same biology teacher in high school for three years. It
> history who would.
was a small private school and there were only about 12 of us in the
class. We were all pretty much on the same level. I loved her
classes. She inspired my passion for biology and science. Since
all of us were at the same pace, we were able to go into things in
more detail and enjoy the "subject" more. The last year we realized
we were "ahead" a year and she gave us the option of choosing what
we wanted to study for the last year. We made up our own class!
That was the last time I remember actually enjoying a class. Outside
of that class, school was monotonous. It was like a seperate world.