Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] art was creativity links
Lawrence Manzano
Andy Holly, I hear what you are saying about being artistic. I never took
an art class, I wish I had those experiences you had articstically. I went
another route, I went into teaching and from high school latin I went off
course into bilingual education. Somewhere I took a very wrong career turn.
My latest obsessive thought is getting my two son's writing or even drawing,
they dont. THey like computer games, and other items. At least the eldest
likes to read Emily rodda and is most happy in his own cavie world.
Someday I will share our tale of how we came to homeschool. But in another
town, I probably would be a school teacher. I have no qualms on my choices
and in fact I still teach.
Sounds like you want to do the 'art thing' do it. I want to too but I am
more of a craftsy person anyway. My one criticism about teaching here In
Austin and texas in general, is that the 'system' is taking all of the
creative portion from teaching. I can't be a part of that system. I prefer
to create and journey on this off road path. I find serendipity in our
artistic journey of unschooling. Every conversation every topic between my
kids and I are artistic in nature. Diplomacy is always a theme around here
and it takes work to be artistic it would be oh so easy to be banal and
simple. well hasta luigi, monica
an art class, I wish I had those experiences you had articstically. I went
another route, I went into teaching and from high school latin I went off
course into bilingual education. Somewhere I took a very wrong career turn.
My latest obsessive thought is getting my two son's writing or even drawing,
they dont. THey like computer games, and other items. At least the eldest
likes to read Emily rodda and is most happy in his own cavie world.
Someday I will share our tale of how we came to homeschool. But in another
town, I probably would be a school teacher. I have no qualms on my choices
and in fact I still teach.
Sounds like you want to do the 'art thing' do it. I want to too but I am
more of a craftsy person anyway. My one criticism about teaching here In
Austin and texas in general, is that the 'system' is taking all of the
creative portion from teaching. I can't be a part of that system. I prefer
to create and journey on this off road path. I find serendipity in our
artistic journey of unschooling. Every conversation every topic between my
kids and I are artistic in nature. Diplomacy is always a theme around here
and it takes work to be artistic it would be oh so easy to be banal and
simple. well hasta luigi, monica
Andy Holly Clarke
i guess my general answer (not that one is needed) to this is yes and no...
i think i am finally to the place that the idea of selling art, selling something that i created, doesn't make me feel like i would be selling my arm or my child. it used to be completely incomprehensible to me that people were really capable of selling their art. kwim?
art had become a sensitive subject to me. i had a horrendous art teacher in high school that put down everything i did and made her mistakes and others my fault. or at least made me believe they were.
i used to believe i was an artist. i used to be a practicing artist.
now, i haven't done artistic things in so long that i don't feel i should call myself an artist.
i need to get back to the point where i believe that i am an artist. that anyone is capable of art. that everyone has an artist inside them.
then, i need to just start doing art. as much as possible. i need to find my flow and believe i am an artist.
maybe several years down the road after this i will have the opportunity to sell some of my art, maybe not. i certainly wouldn't mind being able to support my family through art
part of what is holding me back is the awful memories of that teacher and because art is so personal for me i worry about putting myself out there and being vulnerable - which i need to do.
finally, the other thing holding me back is guilt. the only other thing i have ever really wanted to do with my life is be a wife/mother. so i worry about taking time and money away from my family to be creative and artistic. i know that i need to spend time just for me so i don't lose myself, but i feel guilty about it and that blocks creativity too.
hope that makes at least a little sense.
holly
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:33:05 EDT
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: creativity links
In a message dated 6/11/04 7:03:00 AM, ahclarke@... writes:
<< i too dream of being an artist, but fear no one will care or want
my art. and i fear that i will let other people opinions about my very
personal art affect how i do art. >>
When you do something so passionately that you don't care if others care, or
want it I think what is likely to happen is that you will infuse the work and
the air around it with that thing that people do care about and want.
The statement above sounds like you were thinking you want to make a living
as an artist. That's not the same as BEING (in your being, in your soul, in
your actions, in your priorities) an artist.
A mundane and unrelated parallel:
Kirby is 17, works at a gaming shop, and when August comes he will have
worked there for four solid years.
Kirby has a friend who has said he really wanted to work there, would like to
work there, has applied, but isn't hired.
Kirby used to volunteer to help there, when he was 12 and 13. He would pick
up chairs at the end of the day, offer to vacuum, help fold calendars for
mailing, run errands. Kirby loved the shop and was helping because he wanted to
be helpful.
His friend declared flatly in a large group of people (I was there) that they
were asking for volunteers for a tournament, but he wasn't going to work for
them for free.
Marty has worked many of those tournaments. They give him store credit and
he gets cards for games he plays. Marty was offered a job, but turned it
down. He didn't want to work where Kirby works. (Makes sense.) Meanwhile, the
other guy who claims to want to do that refuses to actually DO it unless he's
paid.
There's something about peace, contentment and commitment that's alluring,
and it can be apparent in art and music and food prep and bedmaking and, I
guess, game-store customer service.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i think i am finally to the place that the idea of selling art, selling something that i created, doesn't make me feel like i would be selling my arm or my child. it used to be completely incomprehensible to me that people were really capable of selling their art. kwim?
art had become a sensitive subject to me. i had a horrendous art teacher in high school that put down everything i did and made her mistakes and others my fault. or at least made me believe they were.
i used to believe i was an artist. i used to be a practicing artist.
now, i haven't done artistic things in so long that i don't feel i should call myself an artist.
i need to get back to the point where i believe that i am an artist. that anyone is capable of art. that everyone has an artist inside them.
then, i need to just start doing art. as much as possible. i need to find my flow and believe i am an artist.
maybe several years down the road after this i will have the opportunity to sell some of my art, maybe not. i certainly wouldn't mind being able to support my family through art
part of what is holding me back is the awful memories of that teacher and because art is so personal for me i worry about putting myself out there and being vulnerable - which i need to do.
finally, the other thing holding me back is guilt. the only other thing i have ever really wanted to do with my life is be a wife/mother. so i worry about taking time and money away from my family to be creative and artistic. i know that i need to spend time just for me so i don't lose myself, but i feel guilty about it and that blocks creativity too.
hope that makes at least a little sense.
holly
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:33:05 EDT
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: creativity links
In a message dated 6/11/04 7:03:00 AM, ahclarke@... writes:
<< i too dream of being an artist, but fear no one will care or want
my art. and i fear that i will let other people opinions about my very
personal art affect how i do art. >>
When you do something so passionately that you don't care if others care, or
want it I think what is likely to happen is that you will infuse the work and
the air around it with that thing that people do care about and want.
The statement above sounds like you were thinking you want to make a living
as an artist. That's not the same as BEING (in your being, in your soul, in
your actions, in your priorities) an artist.
A mundane and unrelated parallel:
Kirby is 17, works at a gaming shop, and when August comes he will have
worked there for four solid years.
Kirby has a friend who has said he really wanted to work there, would like to
work there, has applied, but isn't hired.
Kirby used to volunteer to help there, when he was 12 and 13. He would pick
up chairs at the end of the day, offer to vacuum, help fold calendars for
mailing, run errands. Kirby loved the shop and was helping because he wanted to
be helpful.
His friend declared flatly in a large group of people (I was there) that they
were asking for volunteers for a tournament, but he wasn't going to work for
them for free.
Marty has worked many of those tournaments. They give him store credit and
he gets cards for games he plays. Marty was offered a job, but turned it
down. He didn't want to work where Kirby works. (Makes sense.) Meanwhile, the
other guy who claims to want to do that refuses to actually DO it unless he's
paid.
There's something about peace, contentment and commitment that's alluring,
and it can be apparent in art and music and food prep and bedmaking and, I
guess, game-store customer service.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "Andy Holly Clarke"
<ahclarke@w...> wrote:
for me to call myself a writer, even though I was writing every day!
That schoolish notion of having to prove something is worthy kept re-
asserting itself in my head, and this was after I had been
unschooling for several years. It's amazing how long it takes to get
rid of some of those old tapes in our heads, isn't it?? I still find
it hard to call myself a photographer, because I have never published
any of my photography (well, except the April issue of Home-Ed
magazine, I guess now I am published). But photography is one of my
biggest passions, and I am nothing if not a photographer!
I think this one of the worst things that school does to people, it
makes them feel like something needs to be seen and approved of by
some "higher authority" before it is valid. As if no one had ever
seen Michelangelo's work or read Shakespeare's plays they would be
any less brilliant.
flow amid the chaos of parenting young kids is certainly a challenge.
and writers about their art and about how vulnerable they feel about
it (even people we take for granted as being at the top of their
field). When you read these famous people's feelings of insecurity
about their art, I think it makes it easier to see that there is no
real line between "real" artists or writers and "amateurs". We're all
just people, creating from our hearts, and it's always difficult to
show that heart to the rest of the world.
I pursue my own goals. In many ways, it adds to the family to have a
person following their passions. The kids get to see that the love of
learning and creation don't stop when you reach adulthood, and they
get introduced to different worlds that they might not otherwise
know - worlds of galleries and paint shops, or worlds of writer's
groups or poetry readings. Also, most of the time if I'm off writing,
my husband is getting to spend one-on-one time with the kids. Since
he's as much of an unschooling parent as I am, it makes sense that he
also would get to share in their day, their journey. He brings things
to their relationship that I don't, and vice versa. He is more likely
to do things like throw them on the bed and wrestle around with them,
and he's a whiz at baking chocolate chip cookies. I'm more likely to
read books with them, work in the garden together, or go for a bike
ride. It does them good to have more than one parent's
talents/abilities/interests in their unschooling lives.
Of course, taking time out to follow one's own passions can be taken
to an unhealthy extreme. Finding the balancing point is the tough
part, but I think when you do find that part, it enhances the family
and the unschooling journey of all.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<ahclarke@w...> wrote:
> i used to believe i was an artist. i used to be a practicingartist.
>should call myself an artist.
> now, i haven't done artistic things in so long that i don't feel i
>Oh, I used to have this issue with writing. It took a very long time
> i need to get back to the point where i believe that i am an
>artist. that anyone is capable of art. that everyone has an artist
>inside them.
for me to call myself a writer, even though I was writing every day!
That schoolish notion of having to prove something is worthy kept re-
asserting itself in my head, and this was after I had been
unschooling for several years. It's amazing how long it takes to get
rid of some of those old tapes in our heads, isn't it?? I still find
it hard to call myself a photographer, because I have never published
any of my photography (well, except the April issue of Home-Ed
magazine, I guess now I am published). But photography is one of my
biggest passions, and I am nothing if not a photographer!
I think this one of the worst things that school does to people, it
makes them feel like something needs to be seen and approved of by
some "higher authority" before it is valid. As if no one had ever
seen Michelangelo's work or read Shakespeare's plays they would be
any less brilliant.
> then, i need to just start doing art. as much as possible. i needThis is one of the hardest things I've tried to do as a mom. Finding
>to find my flow and believe i am an artist.
flow amid the chaos of parenting young kids is certainly a challenge.
> part of what is holding me back is the awful memories of thatI've found it really helpful to read the writings of artists, poets,
>teacher and because art is so personal for me i worry about putting
>myself out there and being vulnerable - which i need to do.
and writers about their art and about how vulnerable they feel about
it (even people we take for granted as being at the top of their
field). When you read these famous people's feelings of insecurity
about their art, I think it makes it easier to see that there is no
real line between "real" artists or writers and "amateurs". We're all
just people, creating from our hearts, and it's always difficult to
show that heart to the rest of the world.
> finally, the other thing holding me back is guilt. the only otherI try not to look at it as taking something away from my family when
>thing i have ever really wanted to do with my life is be a
>wife/mother. so i worry about taking time and money away from my
>family to be creative and artistic. i know that i need to spend
>time just for me so i don't lose myself, but i feel guilty about it
>and that blocks creativity too.
I pursue my own goals. In many ways, it adds to the family to have a
person following their passions. The kids get to see that the love of
learning and creation don't stop when you reach adulthood, and they
get introduced to different worlds that they might not otherwise
know - worlds of galleries and paint shops, or worlds of writer's
groups or poetry readings. Also, most of the time if I'm off writing,
my husband is getting to spend one-on-one time with the kids. Since
he's as much of an unschooling parent as I am, it makes sense that he
also would get to share in their day, their journey. He brings things
to their relationship that I don't, and vice versa. He is more likely
to do things like throw them on the bed and wrestle around with them,
and he's a whiz at baking chocolate chip cookies. I'm more likely to
read books with them, work in the garden together, or go for a bike
ride. It does them good to have more than one parent's
talents/abilities/interests in their unschooling lives.
Of course, taking time out to follow one's own passions can be taken
to an unhealthy extreme. Finding the balancing point is the tough
part, but I think when you do find that part, it enhances the family
and the unschooling journey of all.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/14/04 11:28:14 AM, tri_mom@... writes:
<< I think this one of the worst things that school does to people, it
makes them feel like something needs to be seen and approved of by
some "higher authority" before it is valid. >>
I've started thinking "I'm a philosopher."
Most of what I've done for the past 25 years has been to help people (in the
SCA, in recovery groups, in LLL, here) figure out what they believe and why,
and how what they believe plays out in their real lives.
<<As if no one had ever
seen Michelangelo's work or read Shakespeare's plays they would be
any less brilliant.>>
or if they had done that work and not been discovered until after they died,
had made no money in life. Lots of art is "discovered" too late for the maker
to get any recompense.
Sandra
<< I think this one of the worst things that school does to people, it
makes them feel like something needs to be seen and approved of by
some "higher authority" before it is valid. >>
I've started thinking "I'm a philosopher."
Most of what I've done for the past 25 years has been to help people (in the
SCA, in recovery groups, in LLL, here) figure out what they believe and why,
and how what they believe plays out in their real lives.
<<As if no one had ever
seen Michelangelo's work or read Shakespeare's plays they would be
any less brilliant.>>
or if they had done that work and not been discovered until after they died,
had made no money in life. Lots of art is "discovered" too late for the maker
to get any recompense.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/14/2004 1:52:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
or if they had done that work and not been discovered until after they died,
had made no money in life. Lots of art is "discovered" too late for the
maker
to get any recompense.
<<<<
Cameron was actually TOLD that! That *really* great artists never get paid,
so he should either get a real job or get used to starving.
Idiot.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
or if they had done that work and not been discovered until after they died,
had made no money in life. Lots of art is "discovered" too late for the
maker
to get any recompense.
<<<<
Cameron was actually TOLD that! That *really* great artists never get paid,
so he should either get a real job or get used to starving.
Idiot.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
Game", which was made into a motion picture (he also got the Pulitzer
for his novel "The Killer Angels"). Apparently, he stashed "For the
Love of the Game" in a drawer, not feeling it was good enough to
publish. His son found it and published it after he died. It makes
you wonder how much wonderful art & writing is still sitting in
drawers somewhere that we will never get to see (probably lots of
drek too, LOL).
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
> or if they had done that work and not been discovered until afterthey died,
> had made no money in life. Lots of art is "discovered" too latefor the maker
> to get any recompense.One of my favorite authors, Michael Shaara wrote "For the Love of the
Game", which was made into a motion picture (he also got the Pulitzer
for his novel "The Killer Angels"). Apparently, he stashed "For the
Love of the Game" in a drawer, not feeling it was good enough to
publish. His son found it and published it after he died. It makes
you wonder how much wonderful art & writing is still sitting in
drawers somewhere that we will never get to see (probably lots of
drek too, LOL).
Blue Skies,
-Robin-