Rebeca Zavaleta

Jaiden sounds like he is very verbal and smart little boy. He is obviously
able to see things clearly as they are, as evidenced by his reply to his
rude step-grandma's mean comment. (Go Jaiden!)

My son Demetrius often holds his own when it comes to an injustice, no
matter who the adult is. I think it is a wonderful and necessary thing to
be able to stick up for yourself, and to have a quick mind that can grasp
social situations and verbalize discomfort.



Unfortunately, your scenario of an adult family member demeaning a child is
all too familiar to me. At some of our extended family dinners (depending
on the guest list), my son has made appropriate responses to rude adult
remarks - well, I think they are appropriate! But if I'm not privy to what
is happening, he often is chastised by other adults for speaking "back to an
adult who loves him." If I'm in the room I can clarify that he IS
responding to a remark made TO him and then the dialogue continues along
more respectful lines, or stops.



(My husband is not in these conversations - he nearly always is oblivious to
these situations unless it is pointed out to him. Probably because the rude
offenders to children are always from my side of the family - this type of
rudeness to kids would not naturally occur in his family. We come from
totally different backgrounds).



I'm wondering if this sort of thing goes on in other families as regularly
as it does in mine. And whether or not it is the result of having
homeschooled (my extended family members understand homeschool slightly,
unschooling would be way too radical for them to even WANT to comprehend!)
kids in an extended family that is more typically mainstreamed?



I'm thinking that basically children are usually not considered "fully
people" in that part of my family, as in: they don't have any rights, don't
know their own minds, they don't know what's good for them, they should not
be heard or taken seriously.



WOW! What an eye-opener to write the above! No wonder I find many family
gatherings so stressful.



Rebeca Z.

************************************

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:22:02 +0000

From: elfmama@...

Subject: Re: clothes



On Sundays we have dinner with my dad, step mom, brother and my brothers
girlfriend.



Jaiden(5.5) always gets dressed up(he has a crush on my bro's g-friend) Last
week he chose blue camo shorts and a orange, gray and black striped tribal
shirt. And he spent a few miniutes spiking his hair.



My step mom made a snarky comment to him about his clothes and how maybe I
should pick them for him. He looked at her and very sweetly told her that he
was almost 6 and was perfectly capable of picking out his own clothes and
that if she couldn't say anything nice to him about his clothes than she
didn't need to say anything at all. (the say something nice or nothing at
all is a point she's been trying to make with him)

~Rebecca

--

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help."
-Calvin



<<<At our Friday family dinner he wears a

button-down short sleeved shirt (he prefers those to tees), because he knows
it pleases his Dad and all the grandparents.>>>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

We're having a real rash of this lately. Just the last month or so, it seems, either the boys get along famously (like best-buds) or they're fighting. No in-between, just extremes.

Andy is 8 (next Weds) and Dan is 3+ so maybe it's just some boy stage, I don't know. But it's driving me nuts! It usually starts when one or the other calls a name. Right now Andy's favorite insult is 'crybaby' -- odd because Dan is not a crier. Dan's favorite reply is 'stupidhead.' When names aren't enough, i.e. when Andy calls Dan a name after Dan has called Andy stupidhead, Dan hits Andy, whereupon Andy sometimes (tho not always) hits back. And so it goes....

The newest twist is that Dan hits Andy, who replies with 'I didn't even feel that' prompting Dan to hit harder the next round. Of course, these incidents only happen when I'm either a) driving or b) on the phone (usually helping a LaLeche Mom -- makes me look great!)

I always respond by telling them 'no hitting' or ' no name calling' and lately I find myself repeating that mantra. I've tried separating them, but since I'm only one person that's not always possible.

Any ideas from those who've done close siblings?

Syl




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Marjorie Kirk

Rebecca Z wrote:

Unfortunately, your scenario of an adult family member demeaning a child is
all too familiar to me. At some of our extended family dinners (depending
on the guest list), my son has made appropriate responses to rude adult
remarks - well, I think they are appropriate! But if I'm not privy to what
is happening, he often is chastised by other adults for speaking "back to an
adult who loves him." If I'm in the room I can clarify that he IS
responding to a remark made TO him and then the dialogue continues along
more respectful lines, or stops.


I'm thinking that basically children are usually not considered "fully
people" in that part of my family, as in: they don't have any rights, don't
know their own minds, they don't know what's good for them, they should not
be heard or taken seriously.





I agree totally! At a recent picnic, my DH's aunt tried to joke around with
my son, who is quite the introvert, and doesn't even know her well enough to
remember her name. He was also in a bad mood at the time. Anyway, he
didn't get the joke and just stared at her. She tried to hug him and ruffle
his hair (which I knew would be a problem-he's not a touchy-feely-kid, even
with people he knows!). So he tried to pull away and told her to stop it.
She said he was being rude! I thought that he could have told her not to
touch him in a more polite way, but that basically he was in the right. So
I said that. She told me that kids have no rights, they just have to do
what we (adults) tell them to do. I very strongly and vocally disagreed
with her, not that it'll do any good. Afterward, my son and I had a talk
about why people think that way, and why I think they're wrong.

I can't understand why some people think kids are less than people.

Marjorie

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/04 1:29:53 AM, sylgt04@... writes:

<< I always respond by telling them 'no hitting' or ' no name calling' and
lately I find myself repeating that mantra. >>

If it's not working, change the plan.

When one of my kids did a name-calling stint, I would take that one aside
without gentleness and say "WHAT are you thinking? Why do you think it's okay to
do that? It's NOT."

I have said about various things, and about that, something like "If a
stranger came in here and called you a crybaby, I would throw him out of this house.
Marty/Dan/whichever has the right to be safe and at peace in his own house,
and you will NOT take that away from him. If you can't deal with people
nicely, you need to wait until you're older to be around people."

And I wouldn't say it anything like nice, either. Force of personality can
stick with a person, and make them think again if they consider committing the
offense again.

-=-Any ideas from those who've done close siblings?-=-

A sharp "STOP IT" and a following look has worked at least temporarily here,
and it only takes a series of temporary cessations to give them time to get
older and more resourceful on their own.

-=- Right now Andy's favorite insult is 'crybaby' -- odd because Dan is not a
crier. -=-

Has someone called Andy a crybaby?
If he doesn't cry, especially, I would get Andy in a face-to-face private
non-gentle moment and say "When did he cry? What was he crying about?" and if
the answer was "nothing" I'd ask goofy-ish analogy questions like "Would you
call him a skydiver if he never jumped out of an airplane? Don't use words you
don't mean. And don't use words that hurt people."

If you want a tender, gentle suggestion, sit with him and ask if he remembers
any times when someone said something mean to him when he was little or
called him a name he still remembers. If he comes up with one, discuss being sad
that it happened, and you wish you could undo it, but those things can't be
undone at all. "No backsies" on names once uttered.

Maybe you can stir his empathy that way.

But I wouldn't let it continue. And I would tell him that if you're helping
another mom be more gentle, it's not going to help AND it's embarrassing if
he's being rough with his brother in the background. That he could be messing
with the peace of more than one family, and he needs to either understand it
now and stop, or stop now and understand it later.

That's what I would do.

Kirby called Marty a retard the other day. It was somewhat friendly, but I
commented anyway that maybe that's one of the things he should save for the
future when he has his own place and Marty comes to visit, because I'm trying to
keep Marty safe from that kind of stuff at home.



Sandra

[email protected]

I simply tell mine that isn't appropriate. I ask them why they would want to
be responsible for someone else's unhappiness - and how do they feel when it
is done to them. (maybe bring up specific incidents to remind them that it
hurts the feelings and pride.) As far as other people doing it to them - best
solution - walk away and avoid those people. Connie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/04 7:39:00 AM, mkirk@... writes:

<< She tried to hug him and ruffle
his hair (which I knew would be a problem-he's not a touchy-feely-kid, even
with people he knows!). So he tried to pull away and told her to stop it.
She said he was being rude! I thought that he could have told her not to
touch him in a more polite way, but that basically he was in the right. So
I said that. She told me that kids have no rights, they just have to do
what we (adults) tell them to do. >>

Sheeeesh!!

My thought was to script you (in the next performance <bwg>) to say "Well IF
children are property, he's not YOUR property, he's mine, so get your hands
off him."

Sandra

Jon and Rue Kream

>>I always respond by telling them 'no hitting' or ' no name calling' and
lately I find myself repeating that mantra.

**I do think it's important to express that you need to keep them safe and
won't allow them to hurt each other (physically or with name calling), but I
think it's also important to address the root of the problem. What are they
getting so frustrated about that they start the name calling to begin with?
~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

What are they getting so frustrated about that they start the name calling to begin with?
~Rue

***

That's the part I haven't been able to figure out yet. I think maybe it's because, at 3, Dan is finally moving into some of Andy's territory -- finding the same interests, wanting the same toys, etc. Up until the last few months, they've been almost inseparable, then in March we had to put them into separate bedroom because Dan was instigating by 'touching' Andy's things. I've seen evidence that Dan baits Andy, then will run and tattle on Andy. Gary (dh) who is an only child, falls for this almost every time, expecting Andy to be more mature about it. As an oldest, with a younger sister at the same interval my boys are, I see Dan's baiting. I bristle at the idea of expecting Andy to just be mature and stoic -- it feel so unjust to him.

For me the problem is I remember being told that I was older, and should know not to take the bait. I watched my little sister set up my brother for years. She would do something guaranteed to bug him, he'd get mad and retaliate, then she'd tattle to our Dad who ALWAYS blamed my brother (my sister could do no wrong with Daddy). I know it's a really bad cycle, I just don't have the tools handy to stop it. I find myself thinking (thankfully, not yet saying) the same lectures I heard as a kid, tempted to smack them all and send them to their rooms. I've read Sibling Rivalry (and I'm going to stop by the library for it again this weekend) but as I recall, the methods she suggest -- sit down and talk until both are happy -- is something Dan's just not old enough for at 3.

And it's not like they pull this stuff when we're just sitting around the living room -- it's usually in the car, or when I'm on the phone. Really, most of the time they get along great. Andy has always happily included Dan, so there's not the tag-along thing I had to endure, and Dan adores Andy wanting to be just like him.

Syl




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Sylvia Toyama

Andy uses 'crybaby' because Will called him crybaby a few times (maybe 5 yrs ago), so he's heard it. He's also heard us tell Will it was wrong. Recently, we overheard it at the playground, from a Dad talking about one of his sons to the other son!

**
because I'm trying to keep Marty safe from that kind of stuff at home.

**
I like the explanation of keeping all the kids safe from mistreatment or injury, whether a stranger or a sibling -- I'll definitely use that one!

I knew I'd get better ideas here -- my toolbox was just empty. All I was hearing in my own head was the same crap I got as a kid when my sister baited us into retaliating, and we got into trouble while she could do no wrong (being the baby and all).

Syl


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Marjorie Kirk

Sheeeesh!!

My thought was to script you (in the next performance <bwg>) to say "Well IF
children are property, he's not YOUR property, he's mine, so get your hands
off him."

Sandra


Thanks for the laugh! I'll have to remember that one.

Marjorie

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 11:37:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sylgt04@... writes:
> And it's not like they pull this stuff when we're just sitting around the
> living room -- it's usually in the car, or when I'm on the phone.


If it seems to happen most when YOU are preoccupied, then maybe they are
trying to regain your attention. Mine are 6 and 2 and we don't have the hitting
or name-calling yet but now that my 2 year old is getting more interested in
the older's toys and activities, my older feels like his space is more limited
now and he has to share things he doesn't want to. When it gets to "that's
mine" being hollered around the house, I will ususally help them resolve it by
finding something different and more exciting for the one who has taken
something from the other and returning the taken object. This usually stops it all.
Redirection helps.

Is there anything that they can do in the car for trips? Gameboy, books,
magnetic toys, etc.? Every time we leave the house both kids pick something to
bring, all their own for the trip. Sometimes they trade but my kids also sit
in separate rows in a minivan. 2nd and 3rd row. Is this an option for you?

When you're on the phone, maybe that's the time to pop in a great video game
or movie they both love. Mine are busy all day UNTIL I'm on the phone. It's
amazing they hunt you down at just that moment. Could you make a game of it
by saying whoever is the quietest or whatever until you're off the phone wins a
prize or gets a special lunch or whatever intrigues them? We don't really do
special prizes or anything but mine love to compete for "The Winner" title.
They do this for when we need to be quiet or eating or getting dressed. They
both love to race and amazingly this hasn't stirred up negative competition
yet.


Hope it helps.

Pamela


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 10:11:02 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
b229d655@... writes:
Is there anything that they can do in the car for trips? Gameboy, books,
magnetic toys, etc.? Every time we leave the house both kids pick something
to
bring, all their own for the trip. Sometimes they trade but my kids also sit
in separate rows in a minivan. 2nd and 3rd row. Is this an option for you?
----------

Oh yeah! When my kids were littler we had a big van, and each had a seat. I
had kid-tapes and would put one in right away, even while they were just
getting into seats/seatbelts, and would set a happy sing-along or story-hearing
tone as soon as I could so they had options. Look out the windows and ignore the
tape, listen to the tape, do-whatever along with the tape, and then when we
got settled and got going, I could easily pause the tape to point something out
or to listen to a question or a story.

I tried to make car rides kid-focussed and comfortable for them.

My husband (like lots of adults) has rarely sat in the back seat of a car,
and he forgets it's crowded and hot and you can't see well, and I've always
tried to be an advocate for the back-seaters, having such memories of riding
backwards in an old stationwagen and getting carsick and suffering cigarette smoke
and the choice of either dust or stifling heat... SO, I have WAY too many
times for my husband's preferences said "We need rear struts," or "The back air
conditioning isn't working well, take the car in," or "We need to stop. Nobody
else has as much footroom as the driver and we need to stretch out." I
decided years ago not to be comfortable if the kids weren't comfortable. I
averaged us out. <g>

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 12:58:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> suffering cigarette smoke
> and the choice of either dust or stifling heat...


OR FLICKED ASHES!!!! (G) I remember those days as well.

Even with our van the back is HOT. Why don't they have roll down windows in
the sliding doors anymore? I realize the windows are huge but they could come
half way down at least. It seems we freeze up front when the A/C is on but
it's still a bit warm in back. If we could all open windows and let some air
in, that would be great. The whole "rear climate control" is a crock to me.
Not to mention, the windows are VERY tinted so if we point things out for each
other to see, we better be going snail pace.

Having mine in separate rows helps them have their space and not so much body
heat. But sometimes Andrew (6) asks to sit with Mason (2.5) and they do
fine.

Pamela



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

geocities.com/moonwindstarsky

my mom says that; stop treating me like a friend - I'm not your age,
I am your parent

kids have no rights - parents have rights

--- In [email protected], "Marjorie Kirk"
<mkirk@c...> wrote:
>
> Rebecca Z wrote:
>

>
> I'm thinking that basically children are usually not
considered "fully
> people" in that part of my family, as in: they don't have any
rights, don't
> know their own minds, they don't know what's good for them, they
should not
> be heard or taken seriously.

(My husband is not in these conversations - he nearly always is
oblivious to
these situations unless it is pointed out to him. Probably because
the rude
offenders to children are always from my side of the family - this
type of
rudeness to kids would not naturally occur in his family. We come
from
totally different backgrounds). - wow his family sounds great


> I agree totally! At a recent picnic, my DH's aunt tried to joke
around with
> my son, who is quite the introvert, and doesn't even know her well
enough to
> remember her name. He was also in a bad mood at the time.
Anyway, he
> didn't get the joke and just stared at her. She tried to hug him
>
> I can't understand why some people think kids are less than people.
>
> Marjorie

Kelly Lenhart

>my mom says that; stop treating me like a friend - I'm not your age,
>I am your parent

That is so sad. At least as adults. I figure now we are laying the
groundwork to be their friends when they are grown.

As I grew up, became and adult and started a family my mom and I have become
closer and closer. We now have a different vantage on each other. She's
still my "mommy" but she's not my parent anymore. It's really nice. I feel
lucky to have that.

Kelly

pam sorooshian

On Jun 11, 2004, at 6:45 PM, Kelly Lenhart wrote:

> That is so sad. At least as adults. I figure now we are laying the
> groundwork to be their friends when they are grown.
>
> As I grew up, became and adult and started a family my mom and I have
> become
> closer and closer. We now have a different vantage on each other.
> She's
> still my "mommy" but she's not my parent anymore. It's really nice.
> I feel
> lucky to have that.

I eventually had it too, with my mom. I miss her EVERY day and am glad
for what time we DID have as friends.

My 19 yo and I are rapidly becoming friends. It isn't a steady
transformation - it is a 2 steps forward, one step backwards change.
One minute we're talking like friends, two women, and the next minute
she seems like my little girl again. Its FINE with me - I'm not in a
hurry and, in fact, I'm kind of enjoying this time. When she was a
really wild super active hard-to-keep-up-with toddler, I remember the
same kind of forward/backward transformation happening as she became
more independent. But I was tired - I was pregnant the year she was 2
and, although I recognized what was happening - how she'd venture
further and further away from me, for example, but always run back, I
was TIRED a lot of the time then and she was very fast and impulsive
and exhausting. This feels a bit the same, emotionally, and this time
SHE is conscious of it too, so that's kind of cool, and I'm NOT
exhausted all the time like I was then, which is nice.

We're through the stage of her feeling any need to be rebellious in
order to make a break and feel adult - we had a bit of that. It is hard
for these unschooled kids to FIND something to rebel against - when we
parents don't have arbitrary rigid rules!! <G> But they do have some
urges to make things difficult in order to feel better about themselves
wanting to be separate and independent - so things can get a little
weird and uncomfortable sometimes. We're past that - at 19 she's so
clearly an adult now and doesn't feel any need to make that point.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

pmteet

> Even with our van the back is HOT.



We just bought a oscillating (sp) fan for the van. It is 7 bucks at
walmary. Our back air is busted and we can't afford the repair. So
this has seemed to help.

Michelle

Robyn Coburn

<<<I've seen evidence that Dan baits Andy, then will run and tattle on Andy.
Gary (dh) who is an only child, falls for this almost every time, expecting
Andy to be more mature about it.>>>

I remember reading in a book once where the dad/author had become so
frustrated with endless tattling that he instituted a system of giving a
quarter to the person tattled on, along with NOT using what he described as
"forbidden" or "unfairly gained" knowledge. He was living a lifestyle that
included no punishments of any kind. He saw any of these kinds of behaviors
as the children seeking parental attention.

On the rare occasions when it seems like a kid is tattling for the purpose
of causing trouble for the other child, I usually reply along the lines of
"Oh. Did you tell her that you didn't like that?" I have seen baffled
expressions on the faces of children, who were evidently hoping to watch
another child being punished. If I haven't seen the event, I can have no
real understanding of what led up to it.

Robyn L. Coburn

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[email protected]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 9:25:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
I remember reading in a book once where the dad/author had become so
frustrated with endless tattling that he instituted a system of giving a
quarter to the person tattled on, along with NOT using what he described as
"forbidden" or "unfairly gained" knowledge.
============

Maybe it's hard to envision properly from just what you wrote, but that
sounds horrible to me.

I'd hate for the police to give $20 to anyone whose neighbors finally got up
the courage to report for being awful neighbors, or for them to give $20 to
bullies for being reported.

=\= along with NOT using what he described as
"forbidden" or "unfairly gained" knowledge=\=

"Using" knowledge?
Interpersonal knowledge, awareness of who's needy, who's feelings are hurt,
etc., can only help a parent who really cares to make things better for the
kids.

It seems parents who don't know how to talk to their kids tend to make rules
to shush the kids up.

-=-On the rare occasions when it seems like a kid is tattling for the purpose
of causing trouble for the other child, I usually reply along the lines of
"Oh. Did you tell her that you didn't like that?" I have seen baffled
expressions on the faces of children, who were evidently hoping to watch
another child being punished. If I haven't seen the event, I can have no
real understanding of what led up to it. -=-

If you know both kids you can have a real understanding of what they seem to
be feeling afterwards, though.

Sending kids back to handle their own problems seems coldhearted to me, if
they've come to an adult for help.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

thanks, everyone for the ideas and experiences.

I sat down with each boy alone, and later together today and explained why that won't be tolerated anymore, ever. And, of course, we had some testing of that. Andy hit Dan (hard) after Dan stole his drinker bottle, so we left the park. Once more this evening, Andy did some sort of passive-aggressive thing with a toy, that hurt Daniel. I explained (not very nicely, either) that I would never let one of his friends come in and treat Dan that way, so I can't let him do it either. That it stops NOW. Our job is to protect them, even if that means we have to protect them from each other. He gave a very sincere apology, and even stopped me later to apologize, so I'm hopeful it made an impact.

Syl


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Robyn Coburn

<<Maybe it's hard to envision properly from just what you wrote, but that
sounds horrible to me.>>>

I sure didn't explain it very well - recalling the book, it was more like
not using the knowledge *against the other child*, which was what the
tattler had wanted. The examples he was giving were about everyday minutiae
like "sister left the milk out", not serious instances of children hitting
or otherwise hurting each other. I guess he was trying something startling
to disrupt a negative dynamic that was becoming a habit amongst his several
children. The whole idea probably doesn't remotely apply here. For some
reason it just popped into my mind, when I read the original post about the
brother baiting and then tattling to his Dad, who wasn't present for the
lead up, although Mom was aware of the whole story. It seems like the Dad
there *was* using incomplete knowledge as a reason to then do whatever it
was he was doing - speaking sternly to the other brother? That wasn't clear
in the phrase "dh rises to the bait".

It really does happen that siblings try to get the other one into trouble -
I see it with our neighbors all the time, and sometimes that girl tries to
get Jayn into trouble with me - a futile endeavor. I have been in public
places where Jayn has been doing some innocuous thing, like playing at Ikea
in the kids' section. I've heard other children (strangers) noticing that
she is doing something they would apparently be forbidden to do, and
debating whether or not they should "tell on her". Sometimes they say things
like, "Just let her get into trouble".

<<<Sending kids back to handle their own problems seems coldhearted to me,
if they've come to an adult for help.>>>

They haven't come to me for help - they have come to me because they expect
Jayn to get into trouble, as they would from their parents if they did the
same thing. Or they have come because they are so accustomed to parent's
constantly mediating their interactions. I'm talking about Jayn, or someone,
doing something that is merely annoying, as compared to something that could
be actually dangerous. I try to encourage Jayn to express herself to other
kids at the park (eg), especially if they do something that bugs her - again
I'm not talking about things that could be dangerous.

As far as I can tell, Jayn never speaks to an adult with the expectation
that another child will be punished. I know that there are parents who do
punish with time outs, or privilege removal in our local group. These
children are more likely to tell tales. I hope I can tell the difference
between someone who is wanting me to intervene because they need help, and
someone who is perhaps jealous of Jayn's greater freedoms. Maybe I can't and
I need to be more open to the needs behind the tattling.

Robyn L. Coburn



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Have a Nice Day!

Sending kids back to handle their own problems seems coldhearted to me, if
they've come to an adult for help.

Sandra

I dont' think they are coming to an adult for help. They are coming to the adult for satisfaction in feeling superior to the other child, by getting the other child in trouble.

My kids have done this as well.

Its a lose lose situation. I don't think I'd do what the father did, bec. I wouldn't want my kids to ever second guess whether information they had was "unfair". They might not tell me something that I really ought to know in that case.

I think what Robyn suggested is pretty good. Then I know what is wrong, and can decide if it really warrants my attention or not.

Knowing the kids, you can usually figure out whether or not you really need to intervene or not.

Kristen

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[email protected]

In a message dated 6/12/04 12:29:54 PM, litlrooh@... writes:

<< Its a lose lose situation. I don't think I'd do what the father did, bec.
I wouldn't want my kids to ever second guess whether information they had was
"unfair". They might not tell me something that I really ought to know in
that case. >>

That's my concern.

We used to get in trouble for tattling, because my mom got in trouble for
tattling. No thought, just "tattling is bad." And there was no consideration of
the difference between "Someone is in danger, in a tree, with broken glass
below" and "Someone sneaked out after bedtime last night" and "She's touching
me."

But honestly, I think the mom should involve herself in any case.

I developed a way that works well here for getting both sides of a story and
nobody being in trouble. It's parked here so I don't have to tell it again:

http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting

Probably part of the reason I went to so much trouble was that my mom liked
to be hateful to the kid who tattled. She would threaten to spank both kids if
someone tattled. It sure made her life easier. It made ours harder, but
that wasn't her concern for the most part.

Sandra

Have a Nice Day!

I'll check out the link. THanks!

I have to say, I've tried a few of the things you mentioned...not to be mean, but to discourage such competitive attitudes, never for long, because inevitably it doesn't work and it does more damage than good.

I'm glad I've learned so much more since those days, and I hope my kids will carry that with them with their kids.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Hitting & name-calling



In a message dated 6/12/04 12:29:54 PM, litlrooh@... writes:

<< Its a lose lose situation. I don't think I'd do what the father did, bec.
I wouldn't want my kids to ever second guess whether information they had was
"unfair". They might not tell me something that I really ought to know in
that case. >>

That's my concern.

We used to get in trouble for tattling, because my mom got in trouble for
tattling. No thought, just "tattling is bad." And there was no consideration of
the difference between "Someone is in danger, in a tree, with broken glass
below" and "Someone sneaked out after bedtime last night" and "She's touching
me."

But honestly, I think the mom should involve herself in any case.

I developed a way that works well here for getting both sides of a story and
nobody being in trouble. It's parked here so I don't have to tell it again:

http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting

Probably part of the reason I went to so much trouble was that my mom liked
to be hateful to the kid who tattled. She would threaten to spank both kids if
someone tattled. It sure made her life easier. It made ours harder, but
that wasn't her concern for the most part.

Sandra


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