money, allowances and buying kids stuff
kayb85
I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.
Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I buy them just
about everything they ask for at yard sales and more often than not
whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then sometimes splurge on
stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no.
They get spending money from their grandparents and aunt for lots of
holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer birthdays, Halloween,
Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's pretty spread out
throughout the year.
But as I look at what we're doing with money, there's something I'm
not liking. What's happening is that they don't ever look for
bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money usually goes
towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such stores because
they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel that maybe my
current system is keeping them from learning to shop for bargains,
because the bargains are always taken care of and their money is
never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting too much control of
their choices in my hands.
For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2 noodles (for the
pool) because ours were getting older and we really needed them. I
also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game (2 decks at $10
each). I figured that was all I could afford to do, and only 2
people can play at a time anyway, so the whole family could share the
two decks. But they each want their own decks (and want me to have
my own deck so that I can play with them but not use their cards).
That would be another $20. They also want booster decks which are
extra. And they each spent the last of their money on mighty beanz
beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2 packs and Matt was
only able to afford one. He was upset. But in order for him to even
buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets his birthday
money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not the
might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtable
imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke liked because we have
a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent candies in the
check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to buy herself one
and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of money and was
upset that they got one and he didn't.
In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a discount grocery
store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever they wanted.
Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest cash. Luke spent
all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the gumball and vending
machines. While at the discount store we saw some good deals on toys
with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or two), so I also
bought them those.
Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard sales. I spent $40
just on beanie babies. I bought them a big gymnastic mat, games, a
few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings and paid for her
guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video game
subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th birthday) threw a
fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a new electric guitar
right then and there.) I told him he could play the acoustic guitar
we have any time he wants, and that I would look for a used electric
guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and offered to take
him out and let him play the guitar right then and there, but he
wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't afford. And of
course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
Once this week when they didn't like what I was making for supper I
went to burger king and got them kids meals, which they mostly wanted
because of the toys.
Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift store tomorrow
to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market to get more odds
and ends for her "club".
Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with friends, and she's
been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo, especially when all
3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a lot, so I took
her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for her special lunch.
I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying no. I buy them
a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I have to say no
sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where they are happy with
what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more, more, more?
Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know what
she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I told her I'd give
her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house? Yet,
shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money? Babysitting wouldn't
work because she's still afraid to stay home without me and doesn't
like to go places unless I go along. My mom said she'd pay her $10
plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and she did agree to
that, although she feels torn--she wants the extra $10 but doesn't
want to spend the day working for it. I guess that's just a real
life choice about how money comes into our lives--deciding if working
all day is worth it for the money you receive. But she CRIES about
it to me. If she ends up deciding against the job, she'll cry that
she really wanted the money.
Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do I
decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales because
I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend their
money on it.
And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
Sheila
Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I buy them just
about everything they ask for at yard sales and more often than not
whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then sometimes splurge on
stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no.
They get spending money from their grandparents and aunt for lots of
holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer birthdays, Halloween,
Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's pretty spread out
throughout the year.
But as I look at what we're doing with money, there's something I'm
not liking. What's happening is that they don't ever look for
bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money usually goes
towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such stores because
they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel that maybe my
current system is keeping them from learning to shop for bargains,
because the bargains are always taken care of and their money is
never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting too much control of
their choices in my hands.
For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2 noodles (for the
pool) because ours were getting older and we really needed them. I
also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game (2 decks at $10
each). I figured that was all I could afford to do, and only 2
people can play at a time anyway, so the whole family could share the
two decks. But they each want their own decks (and want me to have
my own deck so that I can play with them but not use their cards).
That would be another $20. They also want booster decks which are
extra. And they each spent the last of their money on mighty beanz
beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2 packs and Matt was
only able to afford one. He was upset. But in order for him to even
buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets his birthday
money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not the
might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtable
imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke liked because we have
a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent candies in the
check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to buy herself one
and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of money and was
upset that they got one and he didn't.
In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a discount grocery
store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever they wanted.
Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest cash. Luke spent
all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the gumball and vending
machines. While at the discount store we saw some good deals on toys
with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or two), so I also
bought them those.
Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard sales. I spent $40
just on beanie babies. I bought them a big gymnastic mat, games, a
few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings and paid for her
guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video game
subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th birthday) threw a
fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a new electric guitar
right then and there.) I told him he could play the acoustic guitar
we have any time he wants, and that I would look for a used electric
guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and offered to take
him out and let him play the guitar right then and there, but he
wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't afford. And of
course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
Once this week when they didn't like what I was making for supper I
went to burger king and got them kids meals, which they mostly wanted
because of the toys.
Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift store tomorrow
to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market to get more odds
and ends for her "club".
Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with friends, and she's
been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo, especially when all
3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a lot, so I took
her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for her special lunch.
I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying no. I buy them
a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I have to say no
sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where they are happy with
what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more, more, more?
Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know what
she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I told her I'd give
her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house? Yet,
shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money? Babysitting wouldn't
work because she's still afraid to stay home without me and doesn't
like to go places unless I go along. My mom said she'd pay her $10
plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and she did agree to
that, although she feels torn--she wants the extra $10 but doesn't
want to spend the day working for it. I guess that's just a real
life choice about how money comes into our lives--deciding if working
all day is worth it for the money you receive. But she CRIES about
it to me. If she ends up deciding against the job, she'll cry that
she really wanted the money.
Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do I
decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales because
I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend their
money on it.
And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
Sheila
24hrmom
> I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.I really like allowances. Well, those with no strings attached. It gives
>
> Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
> whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
> sometimes hard to say no.
the control directly to the kids and they learn how to manage their money
themselves. Maybe not the way I would do it, but the way they want to.
When kids always have to ask someone else to buy something for them, it may
not really feel like their decision since they don't have the final say.
Sure, they can hear the parent explain their decision, but it's not the same
as making the decision themselves.
> Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not theWell if money was the issue I would probably have told them I could pay for
> might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
> trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
> meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
> consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
> one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
> if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
>
one or the other (cards or toys) but not both and they could each choose
which one they wanted the most. If I thought the toys may be an impulse buy
and that they may get more play value out of the cards I may remind them to
think about which they think they'd play the most with to help make a
decision. Not in a judgemental way such that they can tell you obviously
"want" them to choose the cards. But truly giving them the choice which is
most important to them and accepting their decision happily. And I'd remind
them that they could spend their own money for the other (which you
mentioned a couple of them did).
> I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtableIf money is the issue and they really wanted both the cards and toys I
> imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
> peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
> batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
> maker.
likely would have looked through the cart at the other stuff they had chosen
and offered an exchange. You know, if they chose the cards they could put
back other stuff they had picked for about the same value and take the toy
instead.
> Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know whatMaybe you guys could brainstorm some ideas. I know there are some books
> she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
> 11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job.
around about kids making money, maybe borrow a couple from the library.
Obviously I don't know your situation but maybe a paper route, making and
selling crafts (eBay? local markets?), maybe babysitting kids at your house,
what does she like to do?
> I told her I'd giveSometimes my kids will ask what they can do around the house to earn some
> her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
> livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
> an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
> use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
> and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
> kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
> her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
> with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
> expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house?
cash. I usually list some extra work that needs to be done, not the regular
everyday house stuff. Or if some room has gotten quite out of control and
it's "extra" work to get it back in shape. I like someone's suggestion a
while ago about leaving a list of stuff to be done (maybe with a $ value on
it) in the kitchen so they kids can see it any time and go ahead. That way
you don't need to wrack your brain coming up with something useful on the
spot. Win-win.
> Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do IRealize it's their choice and get over it. <g> Or if you think you'd have
> decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
> stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
> your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
> me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
> want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
> I'd have a hard time not getting it for them.
fun with it with them, decide to buy it for yourself. It's like strewing,
it's best to do it without expectations because you realize that stuff you
think they'd be interested in, they aren't (at least for now). Same at the
store. You may see stuff you think they'd enjoy that's a good bargain but
if they're there and they aren't interested, let it go. Or if you think
it's too good a bargain to pass up, or it'll be hard to find later when, or
whatever reason, realize you are buying it for you. And then you should use
it!
As for who buys what, for us it's not a carved in stone rule "you want it,
you have to buy it". My kids realize it also goes hand-in-hand with the
family budget. Sometimes we have more money for spending, sometimes not.
When we have some extra cash I may offer to buy something they are admiring
when we're out, or I'll rent that game, order that pizza etc. But sometimes
when they ask about something I'll tell them I don't have the money for that
right now, that they can pay for it if they have the money, or they can save
for it, or maybe we can split it. They don't argue with me at that point, I
think they realize that I am telling them the truth, not using it as a tool
to control them and their choices, and they understand.
Pam L
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca
Angela
Your question brings up something I've been wondering about. Have you ever
read the book or taken the online test on what you love language is?
According to the book "The Five Love Languages" people feel loved in
different ways. (or a combination there of) They are (to paraphrase)
gifts, quality time, touch, words of encouragement, and acts of service.
My question is...what makes one person value gifts more than another. Do
you feel it is the way people were raised or do you think it's just how
people are made?
Neither dh or I place a lot of value on gifts. We don't give each other
gifts very often and neither one of us cares. We both value quality time
spent together the most. I have a higher value on touch than he does.
Neither one of us came from families that could afford to buy a lot of gifts
(other than Christmas and birthdays). Dh's family is more touch orientated
than mine. Both of our families enjoyed playing board games and card games
with the children. In our own family we now value this time spent together
more than anything else.
I am the 5th of 6 children. The first 5 were born close together and we
didn't have any extra money for things that weren't necessary. The 6th
child was born after the rest of us were on our way to being grown up. My
parents had more money to spend on her and she got designer clothes, lessons
of her choice, and more gifts because they could afford it. She places a
lot of emphasis on stuff. She wants to have the nicest of everything and
it's worth it to her to work for stuff. None of my other siblings seems to
place half as much value on stuff.
So from the examples I've shown in my own life, it seems to me that feeling
loved with stuff is a learned behavior or feeling. Of course, the pool is
too small to know whether that is true or not.
I give my kids an allowance. They each get $2 a week to blow as they
choose. (I have one saver and one spender.) I often buy board games or
Frisbees or other things our family will enjoy for two reasons. They'd
never be able to save for it at the rate of pay they get. And two, it
benefits our family to have things we enjoy doing together. The kids are
really appreciative of what they have. They don't spend much energy wishing
they had something that someone else has.
If they ask for something once in a while that isn't too expensive but they
either don't want to spend their money on it or don't have any, I'll buy it.
If it would really set the family finances back, I probably wouldn't. I got
them hula hoops the other day because one dd's broke and the other one
probably will soon because they were out all winter and the plastic gets
brittle. They were $2 so it was no big deal. I was replacing something
that broke. They get to have a say on the groceries we buy.
Sometimes what we spend money on seems arbitrary to them but we do try to be
fair. Why did you buy this and why won't you buy that but it does all add
up and I explain that to them. In the end, they have an allowance that they
can save and spend on whatever they choose. So if I do say no to it, they
have an option to still get it. We also occasionally let them do a job
around the house for money. If I am feeling like I'd pay someone else to do
it and they are willing, I'll pay them instead. Both girls were wanting
some extra money this week and they called Grammy to see if she had any work
they could do for cash. She had them pull up a brick walkway (I helped
them!) and she gave them each $10. They were pleased and so was she. We
worked for an hour and a half on it. She fed us lunch and gave me a flower
for my garden. :0)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
_____
From: kayb85 [mailto:sheran@...]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] money, allowances and buying kids stuff
I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.
Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I buy them just
about everything they ask for at yard sales and more often than not
whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then sometimes splurge on
stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no.
They get spending money from their grandparents and aunt for lots of
holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer birthdays, Halloween,
Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's pretty spread out
throughout the year.
But as I look at what we're doing with money, there's something I'm
not liking. What's happening is that they don't ever look for
bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money usually goes
towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such stores because
they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel that maybe my
current system is keeping them from learning to shop for bargains,
because the bargains are always taken care of and their money is
never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting too much control of
their choices in my hands.
For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2 noodles (for the
pool) because ours were getting older and we really needed them. I
also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game (2 decks at $10
each). I figured that was all I could afford to do, and only 2
people can play at a time anyway, so the whole family could share the
two decks. But they each want their own decks (and want me to have
my own deck so that I can play with them but not use their cards).
That would be another $20. They also want booster decks which are
extra. And they each spent the last of their money on mighty beanz
beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2 packs and Matt was
only able to afford one. He was upset. But in order for him to even
buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets his birthday
money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not the
might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtable
imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke liked because we have
a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent candies in the
check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to buy herself one
and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of money and was
upset that they got one and he didn't.
In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a discount grocery
store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever they wanted.
Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest cash. Luke spent
all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the gumball and vending
machines. While at the discount store we saw some good deals on toys
with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or two), so I also
bought them those.
Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard sales. I spent $40
just on beanie babies. I bought them a big gymnastic mat, games, a
few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings and paid for her
guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video game
subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th birthday) threw a
fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a new electric guitar
right then and there.) I told him he could play the acoustic guitar
we have any time he wants, and that I would look for a used electric
guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and offered to take
him out and let him play the guitar right then and there, but he
wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't afford. And of
course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
Once this week when they didn't like what I was making for supper I
went to burger king and got them kids meals, which they mostly wanted
because of the toys.
Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift store tomorrow
to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market to get more odds
and ends for her "club".
Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with friends, and she's
been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo, especially when all
3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a lot, so I took
her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for her special lunch.
I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying no. I buy them
a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I have to say no
sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where they are happy with
what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more, more, more?
Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know what
she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I told her I'd give
her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house? Yet,
shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money? Babysitting wouldn't
work because she's still afraid to stay home without me and doesn't
like to go places unless I go along. My mom said she'd pay her $10
plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and she did agree to
that, although she feels torn--she wants the extra $10 but doesn't
want to spend the day working for it. I guess that's just a real
life choice about how money comes into our lives--deciding if working
all day is worth it for the money you receive. But she CRIES about
it to me. If she ends up deciding against the job, she'll cry that
she really wanted the money.
Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do I
decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales because
I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend their
money on it.
And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
Sheila
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
read the book or taken the online test on what you love language is?
According to the book "The Five Love Languages" people feel loved in
different ways. (or a combination there of) They are (to paraphrase)
gifts, quality time, touch, words of encouragement, and acts of service.
My question is...what makes one person value gifts more than another. Do
you feel it is the way people were raised or do you think it's just how
people are made?
Neither dh or I place a lot of value on gifts. We don't give each other
gifts very often and neither one of us cares. We both value quality time
spent together the most. I have a higher value on touch than he does.
Neither one of us came from families that could afford to buy a lot of gifts
(other than Christmas and birthdays). Dh's family is more touch orientated
than mine. Both of our families enjoyed playing board games and card games
with the children. In our own family we now value this time spent together
more than anything else.
I am the 5th of 6 children. The first 5 were born close together and we
didn't have any extra money for things that weren't necessary. The 6th
child was born after the rest of us were on our way to being grown up. My
parents had more money to spend on her and she got designer clothes, lessons
of her choice, and more gifts because they could afford it. She places a
lot of emphasis on stuff. She wants to have the nicest of everything and
it's worth it to her to work for stuff. None of my other siblings seems to
place half as much value on stuff.
So from the examples I've shown in my own life, it seems to me that feeling
loved with stuff is a learned behavior or feeling. Of course, the pool is
too small to know whether that is true or not.
I give my kids an allowance. They each get $2 a week to blow as they
choose. (I have one saver and one spender.) I often buy board games or
Frisbees or other things our family will enjoy for two reasons. They'd
never be able to save for it at the rate of pay they get. And two, it
benefits our family to have things we enjoy doing together. The kids are
really appreciative of what they have. They don't spend much energy wishing
they had something that someone else has.
If they ask for something once in a while that isn't too expensive but they
either don't want to spend their money on it or don't have any, I'll buy it.
If it would really set the family finances back, I probably wouldn't. I got
them hula hoops the other day because one dd's broke and the other one
probably will soon because they were out all winter and the plastic gets
brittle. They were $2 so it was no big deal. I was replacing something
that broke. They get to have a say on the groceries we buy.
Sometimes what we spend money on seems arbitrary to them but we do try to be
fair. Why did you buy this and why won't you buy that but it does all add
up and I explain that to them. In the end, they have an allowance that they
can save and spend on whatever they choose. So if I do say no to it, they
have an option to still get it. We also occasionally let them do a job
around the house for money. If I am feeling like I'd pay someone else to do
it and they are willing, I'll pay them instead. Both girls were wanting
some extra money this week and they called Grammy to see if she had any work
they could do for cash. She had them pull up a brick walkway (I helped
them!) and she gave them each $10. They were pleased and so was she. We
worked for an hour and a half on it. She fed us lunch and gave me a flower
for my garden. :0)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
_____
From: kayb85 [mailto:sheran@...]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] money, allowances and buying kids stuff
I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.
Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I buy them just
about everything they ask for at yard sales and more often than not
whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then sometimes splurge on
stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no.
They get spending money from their grandparents and aunt for lots of
holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer birthdays, Halloween,
Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's pretty spread out
throughout the year.
But as I look at what we're doing with money, there's something I'm
not liking. What's happening is that they don't ever look for
bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money usually goes
towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such stores because
they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel that maybe my
current system is keeping them from learning to shop for bargains,
because the bargains are always taken care of and their money is
never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting too much control of
their choices in my hands.
For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2 noodles (for the
pool) because ours were getting older and we really needed them. I
also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game (2 decks at $10
each). I figured that was all I could afford to do, and only 2
people can play at a time anyway, so the whole family could share the
two decks. But they each want their own decks (and want me to have
my own deck so that I can play with them but not use their cards).
That would be another $20. They also want booster decks which are
extra. And they each spent the last of their money on mighty beanz
beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2 packs and Matt was
only able to afford one. He was upset. But in order for him to even
buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets his birthday
money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not the
might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtable
imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke liked because we have
a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent candies in the
check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to buy herself one
and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of money and was
upset that they got one and he didn't.
In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a discount grocery
store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever they wanted.
Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest cash. Luke spent
all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the gumball and vending
machines. While at the discount store we saw some good deals on toys
with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or two), so I also
bought them those.
Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard sales. I spent $40
just on beanie babies. I bought them a big gymnastic mat, games, a
few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings and paid for her
guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video game
subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th birthday) threw a
fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a new electric guitar
right then and there.) I told him he could play the acoustic guitar
we have any time he wants, and that I would look for a used electric
guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and offered to take
him out and let him play the guitar right then and there, but he
wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't afford. And of
course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
Once this week when they didn't like what I was making for supper I
went to burger king and got them kids meals, which they mostly wanted
because of the toys.
Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift store tomorrow
to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market to get more odds
and ends for her "club".
Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with friends, and she's
been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo, especially when all
3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a lot, so I took
her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for her special lunch.
I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying no. I buy them
a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I have to say no
sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where they are happy with
what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more, more, more?
Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know what
she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I told her I'd give
her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house? Yet,
shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money? Babysitting wouldn't
work because she's still afraid to stay home without me and doesn't
like to go places unless I go along. My mom said she'd pay her $10
plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and she did agree to
that, although she feels torn--she wants the extra $10 but doesn't
want to spend the day working for it. I guess that's just a real
life choice about how money comes into our lives--deciding if working
all day is worth it for the money you receive. But she CRIES about
it to me. If she ends up deciding against the job, she'll cry that
she really wanted the money.
Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do I
decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales because
I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend their
money on it.
And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
Sheila
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
Oh gosh, sorry about not cutting off that post.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<< And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough? >>>>>
LOL. Breathe, Sheila. You make me tired just reading your post <grin>.
Personally, I think you are way over analyzing this thing. Why not figure
out about how much money you spend on the kids each month and give the money
to them? Let them figure out how they want to spend it, when they want to
spend it, etc..
Adriane is 13 and has over $1000 in the bank. Shey pays for everything
herself, including shampoo, because she wants to. She saves her money to
buy designer clothes, etc..
Zach is 10 and just earned his first paycheck (being a car crash victim
surrogate for a biometric kinesthesiology center) and we spent it on the way
home. He knew exactly what he wanted and he got it, a rifle.
My other three kids spend every last dime on candy.
Perhaps it is because I would rather have a root canal than shop, but it
sounds like you are more than generous with your "yes's".
Julie S.
LOL. Breathe, Sheila. You make me tired just reading your post <grin>.
Personally, I think you are way over analyzing this thing. Why not figure
out about how much money you spend on the kids each month and give the money
to them? Let them figure out how they want to spend it, when they want to
spend it, etc..
Adriane is 13 and has over $1000 in the bank. Shey pays for everything
herself, including shampoo, because she wants to. She saves her money to
buy designer clothes, etc..
Zach is 10 and just earned his first paycheck (being a car crash victim
surrogate for a biometric kinesthesiology center) and we spent it on the way
home. He knew exactly what he wanted and he got it, a rifle.
My other three kids spend every last dime on candy.
Perhaps it is because I would rather have a root canal than shop, but it
sounds like you are more than generous with your "yes's".
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:10 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] money, allowances and buying kids stuff
> I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.
>
> Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just try to buy them
> whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but it's still
> sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I buy them just
> about everything they ask for at yard sales and more often than not
> whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then sometimes splurge on
> stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up spending more than I
> should because I don't want to tell them no.
>
> They get spending money from their grandparents and aunt for lots of
> holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer birthdays, Halloween,
> Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's pretty spread out
> throughout the year.
>
> But as I look at what we're doing with money, there's something I'm
> not liking. What's happening is that they don't ever look for
> bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money usually goes
> towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such stores because
> they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel that maybe my
> current system is keeping them from learning to shop for bargains,
> because the bargains are always taken care of and their money is
> never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting too much control of
> their choices in my hands.
>
> For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2 noodles (for the
> pool) because ours were getting older and we really needed them. I
> also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game (2 decks at $10
> each). I figured that was all I could afford to do, and only 2
> people can play at a time anyway, so the whole family could share the
> two decks. But they each want their own decks (and want me to have
> my own deck so that I can play with them but not use their cards).
> That would be another $20. They also want booster decks which are
> extra. And they each spent the last of their money on mighty beanz
> beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2 packs and Matt was
> only able to afford one. He was upset. But in order for him to even
> buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets his birthday
> money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card game but not the
> might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the decision to buy the
> trading card game because I saw that it would provide a lot of fun,
> meaningful time spent together one on one with the kids but didn't
> consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I agreed to buy the
> one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
> if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable.
>
> I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies, squirtable
> imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of straws, goober
> peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream toppings,
> batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new electric ice cream
> maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke liked because we have
> a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent candies in the
> check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to buy herself one
> and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of money and was
> upset that they got one and he didn't.
>
> In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a discount grocery
> store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever they wanted.
> Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest cash. Luke spent
> all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the gumball and vending
> machines. While at the discount store we saw some good deals on toys
> with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or two), so I also
> bought them those.
>
> Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard sales. I spent $40
> just on beanie babies. I bought them a big gymnastic mat, games, a
> few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
>
> Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings and paid for her
> guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video game
> subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th birthday) threw a
> fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a new electric guitar
> right then and there.) I told him he could play the acoustic guitar
> we have any time he wants, and that I would look for a used electric
> guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and offered to take
> him out and let him play the guitar right then and there, but he
> wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't afford. And of
> course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
>
> Once this week when they didn't like what I was making for supper I
> went to burger king and got them kids meals, which they mostly wanted
> because of the toys.
>
> Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift store tomorrow
> to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market to get more odds
> and ends for her "club".
>
> Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with friends, and she's
> been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo, especially when all
> 3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a lot, so I took
> her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for her special lunch.
>
> I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying no. I buy them
> a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I have to say no
> sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where they are happy with
> what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more, more, more?
>
> Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She wants to know what
> she could do to get more money. I thought about it...she is almost
> 11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I told her I'd give
> her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up in the
> livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to cut grass (We use
> an old fashioned push mower so it's not too dangerous for her to
> use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying someone to come in
> and cut the grass or do housework but never did it--but if one of our
> kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution. But is paying
> her to do household stuff going against the thing I'm trying to do
> with making chores a natural, joyful part of life? Would she always
> expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the house? Yet,
> shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money? Babysitting wouldn't
> work because she's still afraid to stay home without me and doesn't
> like to go places unless I go along. My mom said she'd pay her $10
> plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and she did agree to
> that, although she feels torn--she wants the extra $10 but doesn't
> want to spend the day working for it. I guess that's just a real
> life choice about how money comes into our lives--deciding if working
> all day is worth it for the money you receive. But she CRIES about
> it to me. If she ends up deciding against the job, she'll cry that
> she really wanted the money.
>
> Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do I
> decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy them
> stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spend
> your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
> me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If they
> want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,
> I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
> that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales because
> I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend their
> money on it.
>
> And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
>
> Sheila
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/04 7:31:25 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:
<< They each get $2 a week to blow as they
choose. (I have one saver and one spender.) >>
Blow?
Spend!
Sandra
<< They each get $2 a week to blow as they
choose. (I have one saver and one spender.) >>
Blow?
Spend!
Sandra
Angela
I stand corrected. :0) I knew when I sent that email in a hurry without
much proof reading that I was going to *blow* it. ;0)
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Blow?
Spend!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
much proof reading that I was going to *blow* it. ;0)
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Blow?
Spend!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/04 1:11:53 AM, sheran@... writes:
<< Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no. >>
If you gave them an allowance, you could still buy extra things they couldn't
afford, but you wouldn't have to feel it was always coming out of "the
general fund," and they could have fun saving for something. Both Marty and Holly
really enjoy the amassing of money, and having a goal to buy something. Kirby
and I prefer charge cards and later consequences. Kirby and I are not the
more virtuous example at all.
Holly got a big playground ball (they have some 16" heavy vinyl like giant
four-square balls at Target) and though I would have been willing to get it for
her (PE justification and all that <g>) she wanted to own it wholly with her
own money.
Kids without "own money" can't have that thrill.
-=- So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable. -=-
No crime in that. But you're right, if it's your money, they are supplicants
and not shoppers.
Sandra
<< Sometimes I end up spending more than I
should because I don't want to tell them no. >>
If you gave them an allowance, you could still buy extra things they couldn't
afford, but you wouldn't have to feel it was always coming out of "the
general fund," and they could have fun saving for something. Both Marty and Holly
really enjoy the amassing of money, and having a goal to buy something. Kirby
and I prefer charge cards and later consequences. Kirby and I are not the
more virtuous example at all.
Holly got a big playground ball (they have some 16" heavy vinyl like giant
four-square balls at Target) and though I would have been willing to get it for
her (PE justification and all that <g>) she wanted to own it wholly with her
own money.
Kids without "own money" can't have that thrill.
-=- So I agreed to buy the
one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to pay themselves
if they wanted the one I didn't think was as valuable. -=-
No crime in that. But you're right, if it's your money, they are supplicants
and not shoppers.
Sandra
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "24hrmom" > Maybe you
guys could brainstorm some ideas. I know there are some books
and creating their own business is such a fun thing to do! Our local
library has a kids' flea market once a year where kids can hold
garage sales or sell crafts at tables.
My son propagated plants from our garden one year and sold them at
the flea market and at a friend's garage sale. He made $48 (he was 5
at the time!) This year, the kids are thinking of starting a soap-
making business and have been trying out different recipes. Other
ideas for kid-run business - crafts, bake sales, leasing a vending
machine (like a gumball machine), being a mother's helper
(babysitting while the kids' mom is still in the house).
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
guys could brainstorm some ideas. I know there are some books
> around about kids making money, maybe borrow a couple from thelibrary.
> Obviously I don't know your situation but maybe a paper route,making and
> selling crafts (eBay? local markets?), maybe babysitting kids atyour house,
> what does she like to do?I second this idea - there's lots of ways that kids can make money,
and creating their own business is such a fun thing to do! Our local
library has a kids' flea market once a year where kids can hold
garage sales or sell crafts at tables.
My son propagated plants from our garden one year and sold them at
the flea market and at a friend's garage sale. He made $48 (he was 5
at the time!) This year, the kids are thinking of starting a soap-
making business and have been trying out different recipes. Other
ideas for kid-run business - crafts, bake sales, leasing a vending
machine (like a gumball machine), being a mother's helper
(babysitting while the kids' mom is still in the house).
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
might or might be true, but it's what I got from reading all of that)
that shopping and buying stuff is a really big part of your lives,
and that perhaps you feel that buying things for them is connected to
displaying love for them? One thing that might help is to just limit
the number of times you are someplace where stuff is available for
buying (like Target/Walmart type places), and another thing
is to think about when/where/how and why you spend money and what
your emotional attachment to that is. One book that I really liked
(in general) about money is called "Your Money or Your Life". It
helps you look at the money you spend and determine how much of it is
for stuff that you really want/need, as opposed to stuff that you're
just buying for various reasons. The book really transformed the way
DH and I looked at money, shopping, buying (we read it before having
kids).
In our family, it works like this: The kids each get allowance. It's
enough that they can save up for big things that they want fairly
easily, but not immediately, or they can buy smaller things more
immediately. It also fits within our family's budget for spending
money. For other stuff, I'm not much of a shopper or buyer of stuff.
My general life principles tend towards not over-consuming,
especially of low quality, low life-expectancy stuff with high
environmental impact (cheap, plastic crap, in other words). I also
try to avoid shopping at places like Wal-Mart for the same reasons
(environmental and community impact). So we just don't tend to go in
stores with stuff (other than groceries) all that often. If we do,
the kids know that I'm unlikely to buy stuff, although that's not
always true. For instance, I might buy stuff like swim fins,
snorkels, pool toys, or scooters, or add to our board game stash,
though we also like to pick up that stuff at garage sales. Books are
also things I tend to buy, though again I go to our locally-owned
bookshop, not a chain. If we do go to a store (like a recent
expedition to Target for Pokemon cards that I bought for the kids),
the kids know that I'm unlikely to browse and make impulse purchases.
We do go to garage sales sometimes too, and to thrift stores, as well
as to our town's Saturday market. The kids are great
bargainers/dickerers and will sometimes buy stuff at these places. At
garage sales, I usually give them whatever change I've got on me or I
will spring for a bigger purchase if it's a good deal.
In general, I grew up in a family of shoppers, in a very cluttery
house. I don't like clutter and I don't like to buy stuff just to be
buying it, and it feels claustrophobic to me to be surrounded by
clutter and stuff that's not being used but just taking up space. In
our family, if we choose to invite something to our house, we try to
make sure that it has a place and it is used. If it hasn't been used
in a long time, we usually get rid of it (the kids decide this of
course, I'll set out a goodwill box and they'll put whatever they
want in it, then I set it in the garage for a few weeks, just in case
they have giver's remorse on some item).
One of my kids tends to make impulse purchases and buy a bunch more
stuff than the other. The other tends to make more considered
decisions and saves up more frequently for something truly needed. I
think that having an allowance lets them figure out saving/spending
and their own values more easily than having to ask me for any little
thing that they might want. It also cuts down on the "gimmes" at a
store, because they know that if they really want it, they can buy it
themselves. Not to say I don't sometimes buy things for them (I also
keep a "rainy day" stash of things I've found that I know they'll
love, and I occasionally bring them out when one of the kids is
having a tough time), but they know it's not the norm for me to
constantly be buying. Also, as I mentioned in another post, one of my
kids has had his own plant-selling business, and both are considering
a soap-making business this year. They are very into the idea of
earning their own money (they're 7.5 and 4.5).
That's just how it works here.
Blue Skies,
-RObin-
wrote:
> I would appreciate any input on money situations with kids.<snip>
> Should I start an allowance? And if I start an allowance, how do Ithem
> decide when I want to get them stuff just because I want to buy
> stuff and when I should say, "You can get that if you want to spendthey
> your own money on that..." Like yard sales. It is REALLY hard for
> me to resist buying them something that's a really good deal. If
> want something and I know they'd have fun with it but don't buy it,because
> I'd have a hard time not getting it for them. But then they'd know
> that they don't ever need to spend their money at yard sales
> I'll always just buy it if they say they don't want to spend theirOne thing that struck me in your post is that it seems like (this
> money on it.
>
> And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?
might or might be true, but it's what I got from reading all of that)
that shopping and buying stuff is a really big part of your lives,
and that perhaps you feel that buying things for them is connected to
displaying love for them? One thing that might help is to just limit
the number of times you are someplace where stuff is available for
buying (like Target/Walmart type places), and another thing
is to think about when/where/how and why you spend money and what
your emotional attachment to that is. One book that I really liked
(in general) about money is called "Your Money or Your Life". It
helps you look at the money you spend and determine how much of it is
for stuff that you really want/need, as opposed to stuff that you're
just buying for various reasons. The book really transformed the way
DH and I looked at money, shopping, buying (we read it before having
kids).
In our family, it works like this: The kids each get allowance. It's
enough that they can save up for big things that they want fairly
easily, but not immediately, or they can buy smaller things more
immediately. It also fits within our family's budget for spending
money. For other stuff, I'm not much of a shopper or buyer of stuff.
My general life principles tend towards not over-consuming,
especially of low quality, low life-expectancy stuff with high
environmental impact (cheap, plastic crap, in other words). I also
try to avoid shopping at places like Wal-Mart for the same reasons
(environmental and community impact). So we just don't tend to go in
stores with stuff (other than groceries) all that often. If we do,
the kids know that I'm unlikely to buy stuff, although that's not
always true. For instance, I might buy stuff like swim fins,
snorkels, pool toys, or scooters, or add to our board game stash,
though we also like to pick up that stuff at garage sales. Books are
also things I tend to buy, though again I go to our locally-owned
bookshop, not a chain. If we do go to a store (like a recent
expedition to Target for Pokemon cards that I bought for the kids),
the kids know that I'm unlikely to browse and make impulse purchases.
We do go to garage sales sometimes too, and to thrift stores, as well
as to our town's Saturday market. The kids are great
bargainers/dickerers and will sometimes buy stuff at these places. At
garage sales, I usually give them whatever change I've got on me or I
will spring for a bigger purchase if it's a good deal.
In general, I grew up in a family of shoppers, in a very cluttery
house. I don't like clutter and I don't like to buy stuff just to be
buying it, and it feels claustrophobic to me to be surrounded by
clutter and stuff that's not being used but just taking up space. In
our family, if we choose to invite something to our house, we try to
make sure that it has a place and it is used. If it hasn't been used
in a long time, we usually get rid of it (the kids decide this of
course, I'll set out a goodwill box and they'll put whatever they
want in it, then I set it in the garage for a few weeks, just in case
they have giver's remorse on some item).
One of my kids tends to make impulse purchases and buy a bunch more
stuff than the other. The other tends to make more considered
decisions and saves up more frequently for something truly needed. I
think that having an allowance lets them figure out saving/spending
and their own values more easily than having to ask me for any little
thing that they might want. It also cuts down on the "gimmes" at a
store, because they know that if they really want it, they can buy it
themselves. Not to say I don't sometimes buy things for them (I also
keep a "rainy day" stash of things I've found that I know they'll
love, and I occasionally bring them out when one of the kids is
having a tough time), but they know it's not the norm for me to
constantly be buying. Also, as I mentioned in another post, one of my
kids has had his own plant-selling business, and both are considering
a soap-making business this year. They are very into the idea of
earning their own money (they're 7.5 and 4.5).
That's just how it works here.
Blue Skies,
-RObin-
[email protected]
Hmmm, after giving this some thoughtful consideration I will share our family
philosophy.
In an effort to prepare my children (ages 12, 10, 8) for the real world,
where one usually must perform some sort work to earn a living, they are given an
allowance for performing certain chores. They cut the grass, pick up dog
doo, empty the dishwasher, clean the bathrooms, feed the pets. They may earn extra
money if they request additional work because there is something special
they'd like to purchase. This arrangement is relatively recent, within the past 2
years, after they showed an interest in earning and having their own money.
The 12 and 8 year old share a daily paper route (their idea) because they
are more motivated by money than the 10 year old. All have over $1000 in their
savings accounts and are encouraged to deposit to them when their cash holding
at home exceed $100.
I encourage them to think carefully about their purchases, suggesting they
take an extra day or two when ready to jump on an impulsive purchase (something
I also try to do myself). Often they forget, find something else they want
instead, or realize it wasn't such a great idea. Their lists of wants are
pretty long, but they have become accustomed to waiting, planning, saving.
If there is a large item they'd like I encourage them to put it on their
birthday or Christmas list or we discuss it's merits (persuasive oratory?) and
sometimes I'll split the cost with them.
We don't have any hard fast rules about who buys what. Candy is not limited
to any great extent here, so the kids rarely buy any - there's usually always
some laying around the house. They like computer games and other pricey
things, but we've helped them see how a budget works and how to save for something
they really want. When conflicting wants arise, they need to prioritize....
hey! Just like mom and dad.
It works pretty well here. We don't dwell a great deal on money - it's just
another fact of life to be dealt with.
Linda in Ann Arbor, MI
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
philosophy.
In an effort to prepare my children (ages 12, 10, 8) for the real world,
where one usually must perform some sort work to earn a living, they are given an
allowance for performing certain chores. They cut the grass, pick up dog
doo, empty the dishwasher, clean the bathrooms, feed the pets. They may earn extra
money if they request additional work because there is something special
they'd like to purchase. This arrangement is relatively recent, within the past 2
years, after they showed an interest in earning and having their own money.
The 12 and 8 year old share a daily paper route (their idea) because they
are more motivated by money than the 10 year old. All have over $1000 in their
savings accounts and are encouraged to deposit to them when their cash holding
at home exceed $100.
I encourage them to think carefully about their purchases, suggesting they
take an extra day or two when ready to jump on an impulsive purchase (something
I also try to do myself). Often they forget, find something else they want
instead, or realize it wasn't such a great idea. Their lists of wants are
pretty long, but they have become accustomed to waiting, planning, saving.
If there is a large item they'd like I encourage them to put it on their
birthday or Christmas list or we discuss it's merits (persuasive oratory?) and
sometimes I'll split the cost with them.
We don't have any hard fast rules about who buys what. Candy is not limited
to any great extent here, so the kids rarely buy any - there's usually always
some laying around the house. They like computer games and other pricey
things, but we've helped them see how a budget works and how to save for something
they really want. When conflicting wants arise, they need to prioritize....
hey! Just like mom and dad.
It works pretty well here. We don't dwell a great deal on money - it's just
another fact of life to be dealt with.
Linda in Ann Arbor, MI
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
Thanks for the input! I have some comments:
lifestyle but the rest of my family doesn't. I wanted to plant a ton
of stuff out in the yard this year and make tons of stuff from
scratch, but there just isn't enough time because my kids aren't
wanting me to do other stuff. So instead of gardening today, I made
houses for mighty beanz out of cardboard boxes and tubes. One of the
houses has an elevator! And after supper we're sewing pillows and
beds and couches for the mighty beanz houses. I guess I'll have time
to garden when I'm old and the kids are grown. ;) I'm pretty
simplicity minded when it comes to buying for myself. But I also try
to not say no to my kids, and they're NOT very simplicity minded.
I try not to go to Walmart-type places very often, but in this case
they specifically asked to go. So if they specifically ask to do
something, I try to so yes. In this case, they heard a friend say
that the next series of mighty beanz was out at Wal-mart. They
wanted to go get some. And while we were there, they saw other stuff
they wanted.
On the same day we went for mighty beanz, we had gotten our electric
ice cream maker out of the cellar and found that a little bit of
water had leaked from the ceiling above it at some point over the
winter and collected inside the ice cream maker. The machine was
black and moldy and I didn't think I could save the ice cream maker
and still have it not be a health hazard, so I threw it out and we
bought a new one at Wal-mart.
While we were at Wal-mart, we also picked up some groceries. I
sometimes shop at Wal-mart for food, because I like to buy organic
milk and it's the only place around that carries it. And of course
while I'm shopping, they see lots of stuff. Can I have this? Yes.
And this? Yes. And this? yes. This? I think we have
enough. "Oh, Mom, PLEASE? I REALLY want it?" And I feel bad
because I have to say no.
And also on the same day, ALisha had a friend over and they wanted to
bike ride to a convenience store for a soda and a snack. This
tradition of wanting to go to this convenience store for a soda and
snacks started years ago when an older friend took her to do that.
And now every time she has friends over she asks if they can ride
bikes to there. I think they like to have somewhere to ride bikes TO-
-a destination and a purpose for riding, rather than just riding for
the sake of riding. And that is the only place in town for them to
ride to except for a playground. If I could control her mind, I'd
choose for her to not ask to ride bikes to Turkey Hill for sodas and
snacks, but I don't get to control her desires and she does ask, and
my goal as an unschooler is to say yes as much as possible, so... I
said okay, we would go there and I would give them each 3.00 to
spend. But her friend didn't have a bike along and rode Alisha's,
Alisha tried to ride mine and it was too big and hard for her to
ride. So they came back home and I said I would drive them, but
suggested going to a discount grocery store instead because they'd
get more for their 3.00. And while we were there, we saw other stuff
that they wanted and asked me to buy for them. Like the nak nak sets
and the ball toy that sells at wal-mart for 20 and we got for 2.00,
and the mcflurry makers for 2.00.
It
honestly have that under control. It's a matter of me not being very
good at personal limits and knowing when to say no to the kids.
That's why I'm thinking I should move to an allowance system, so that
they have to make the decisions of when to say no instead of me. But
still, I think they will run out of money and ask me to buy them
stuff and I'll still have to say no, I can't afford that. That is
hard for me.
I also
being determined by your values or judgement rather than theirs?
LOTS of clutter, but we also use all of it at some point or another.
Also, as I mentioned in another post, one of my
been our problem with the kids came up with business ideas--no
market. We talked about buying a vending machine to set up in their
grandpa's flea market. Alisha tried working at the flea market but
she got really bored by it and didn't want to spend the time working
there (but she wanted the money!) It was also frustrating for her
because people didn't come to her to pay or to ask for help because
she wasn't an adult.
Sheila
> One thing that struck me in your post is that it seems like (thisthat)
> might or might be true, but it's what I got from reading all of
> that shopping and buying stuff is a really big part of your lives,to
> and that perhaps you feel that buying things for them is connected
> displaying love for them? One thing that might help is to justlimit
> the number of times you are someplace where stuff is available forI've read the book. :) I could really get into the simplicity
> buying (like Target/Walmart type places), and another thing
> is to think about when/where/how and why you spend money and what
> your emotional attachment to that is. One book that I really liked
> (in general) about money is called "Your Money or Your Life".
lifestyle but the rest of my family doesn't. I wanted to plant a ton
of stuff out in the yard this year and make tons of stuff from
scratch, but there just isn't enough time because my kids aren't
wanting me to do other stuff. So instead of gardening today, I made
houses for mighty beanz out of cardboard boxes and tubes. One of the
houses has an elevator! And after supper we're sewing pillows and
beds and couches for the mighty beanz houses. I guess I'll have time
to garden when I'm old and the kids are grown. ;) I'm pretty
simplicity minded when it comes to buying for myself. But I also try
to not say no to my kids, and they're NOT very simplicity minded.
I try not to go to Walmart-type places very often, but in this case
they specifically asked to go. So if they specifically ask to do
something, I try to so yes. In this case, they heard a friend say
that the next series of mighty beanz was out at Wal-mart. They
wanted to go get some. And while we were there, they saw other stuff
they wanted.
On the same day we went for mighty beanz, we had gotten our electric
ice cream maker out of the cellar and found that a little bit of
water had leaked from the ceiling above it at some point over the
winter and collected inside the ice cream maker. The machine was
black and moldy and I didn't think I could save the ice cream maker
and still have it not be a health hazard, so I threw it out and we
bought a new one at Wal-mart.
While we were at Wal-mart, we also picked up some groceries. I
sometimes shop at Wal-mart for food, because I like to buy organic
milk and it's the only place around that carries it. And of course
while I'm shopping, they see lots of stuff. Can I have this? Yes.
And this? Yes. And this? yes. This? I think we have
enough. "Oh, Mom, PLEASE? I REALLY want it?" And I feel bad
because I have to say no.
And also on the same day, ALisha had a friend over and they wanted to
bike ride to a convenience store for a soda and a snack. This
tradition of wanting to go to this convenience store for a soda and
snacks started years ago when an older friend took her to do that.
And now every time she has friends over she asks if they can ride
bikes to there. I think they like to have somewhere to ride bikes TO-
-a destination and a purpose for riding, rather than just riding for
the sake of riding. And that is the only place in town for them to
ride to except for a playground. If I could control her mind, I'd
choose for her to not ask to ride bikes to Turkey Hill for sodas and
snacks, but I don't get to control her desires and she does ask, and
my goal as an unschooler is to say yes as much as possible, so... I
said okay, we would go there and I would give them each 3.00 to
spend. But her friend didn't have a bike along and rode Alisha's,
Alisha tried to ride mine and it was too big and hard for her to
ride. So they came back home and I said I would drive them, but
suggested going to a discount grocery store instead because they'd
get more for their 3.00. And while we were there, we saw other stuff
that they wanted and asked me to buy for them. Like the nak nak sets
and the ball toy that sells at wal-mart for 20 and we got for 2.00,
and the mcflurry makers for 2.00.
It
> helps you look at the money you spend and determine how much of itis
> for stuff that you really want/need, as opposed to stuff thatyou're
> just buying for various reasons.It's not a matter of me determining what I really want/need. I
honestly have that under control. It's a matter of me not being very
good at personal limits and knowing when to say no to the kids.
That's why I'm thinking I should move to an allowance system, so that
they have to make the decisions of when to say no instead of me. But
still, I think they will run out of money and ask me to buy them
stuff and I'll still have to say no, I can't afford that. That is
hard for me.
> My general life principles tend towards not over-consuming,What if the kids as for cheap plastic crap?
> especially of low quality, low life-expectancy stuff with high
> environmental impact (cheap, plastic crap, in other words).
I also
> try to avoid shopping at places like Wal-Mart for the same reasonsin
> (environmental and community impact). So we just don't tend to go
> stores with stuff (other than groceries) all that often. If we do,So you're okay with saying no to something they want, with your no
> the kids know that I'm unlikely to buy stuff, although that's not
> always true.
being determined by your values or judgement rather than theirs?
> In general, I grew up in a family of shoppers, in a very clutterybe
> house. I don't like clutter and I don't like to buy stuff just to
> buying it, and it feels claustrophobic to me to be surrounded byIn
> clutter and stuff that's not being used but just taking up space
> our family, if we choose to invite something to our house, we tryto
> make sure that it has a place and it is used. If it hasn't beenused
> in a long time, we usually get rid of it (the kids decide this ofcase
> course, I'll set out a goodwill box and they'll put whatever they
> want in it, then I set it in the garage for a few weeks, just in
> they have giver's remorse on some item).My kids are very rarely willing to get rid of anything. We've got
LOTS of clutter, but we also use all of it at some point or another.
Also, as I mentioned in another post, one of my
> kids has had his own plant-selling business, and both areconsidering
> a soap-making business this year. They are very into the idea ofThat's cool. Who would they sell their plants or soaps to? That's
> earning their own money (they're 7.5 and 4.5).
been our problem with the kids came up with business ideas--no
market. We talked about buying a vending machine to set up in their
grandpa's flea market. Alisha tried working at the flea market but
she got really bored by it and didn't want to spend the time working
there (but she wanted the money!) It was also frustrating for her
because people didn't come to her to pay or to ask for help because
she wasn't an adult.
Sheila
kayb85
--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
stuff, especially in regards to parenting issues, because I want to
get everything JUST right.
I've never worked with a budget before. I've just always been very
conservative with my spending and only bought what I REALLY needed. I
always had enough for what I needed and was always content with that,
even when we were first married and living on only dh's minimum wage
job. I always had money leftover at the end of the month. But then
I tried this not saying no to kids' requests unschooling philosophy
and found myself coming up SHORT every month. I think what I need to
do is just buckle down and start working with a budget. Something on
paper that I can show the kids. And giving an allowance for their
spending rather than just buying whatever.
Sheila
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> <<<<< And what if they complain that the allowance isn't enough?<grin>
>>>>>
>
> LOL. Breathe, Sheila. You make me tired just reading your post
> Personally, I think you are way over analyzing this thing. Why notfigure
> out about how much money you spend on the kids each month and givethe money
> to them? Let them figure out how they want to spend it, when theywant to
> spend it, etc..Thanks for the reminder to breathe. :) lol I DO tend to over-analyze
stuff, especially in regards to parenting issues, because I want to
get everything JUST right.
I've never worked with a budget before. I've just always been very
conservative with my spending and only bought what I REALLY needed. I
always had enough for what I needed and was always content with that,
even when we were first married and living on only dh's minimum wage
job. I always had money leftover at the end of the month. But then
I tried this not saying no to kids' requests unschooling philosophy
and found myself coming up SHORT every month. I think what I need to
do is just buckle down and start working with a budget. Something on
paper that I can show the kids. And giving an allowance for their
spending rather than just buying whatever.
Sheila
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
Effectiveness Training" (P.E.T) talks about determining what is the
parents problem vs. what is the kids problem. So it's your problem
(responsibility) to come up with the budget for spending
on "entertainment" in general and up to them to determine what they
spend their money on. And maybe together you can figure out who gets
how much allowance and how much is for shared toys, etc.
Or I could be remembering it wrong...but it still sounds interesting!
--aj
wrote:
>But thento
> I tried this not saying no to kids' requests unschooling philosophy
> and found myself coming up SHORT every month. I think what I need
> do is just buckle down and start working with a budget. Somethingon
> paper that I can show the kids. And giving an allowance for theirI don't know if I'm remembering this quite right, but "Parent
> spending rather than just buying whatever.
Effectiveness Training" (P.E.T) talks about determining what is the
parents problem vs. what is the kids problem. So it's your problem
(responsibility) to come up with the budget for spending
on "entertainment" in general and up to them to determine what they
spend their money on. And maybe together you can figure out who gets
how much allowance and how much is for shared toys, etc.
Or I could be remembering it wrong...but it still sounds interesting!
--aj
Have a Nice Day!
I could use this.
When I gave my kids allowances (and they were generous allowances) I told them they could decide what to spend their money on.
But then they wanted things they didn't have enough money for, or things that were in a "gray" area. It made me feel guilty if I didn't help them buy that pair of pants because it was clothing and not just movie tickets.
I'm not sure where to draw the line. If I give them a certain amount, it needs to be all I give them, so that I can keep within my budget. I ended up spending way too much money between the allowances *and* the indulgences.
I just can't do both. So I went back to indulging when I can, and saying "no" when I can't. Maybe someday I'll figure out how to draw the line in the right place <grin>
Kristen
When I gave my kids allowances (and they were generous allowances) I told them they could decide what to spend their money on.
But then they wanted things they didn't have enough money for, or things that were in a "gray" area. It made me feel guilty if I didn't help them buy that pair of pants because it was clothing and not just movie tickets.
I'm not sure where to draw the line. If I give them a certain amount, it needs to be all I give them, so that I can keep within my budget. I ended up spending way too much money between the allowances *and* the indulgences.
I just can't do both. So I went back to indulging when I can, and saying "no" when I can't. Maybe someday I'll figure out how to draw the line in the right place <grin>
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: mamaaj2000
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: money, allowances and buying kids stuff
--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
>But then
> I tried this not saying no to kids' requests unschooling philosophy
> and found myself coming up SHORT every month. I think what I need
to
> do is just buckle down and start working with a budget. Something
on
> paper that I can show the kids. And giving an allowance for their
> spending rather than just buying whatever.
I don't know if I'm remembering this quite right, but "Parent
Effectiveness Training" (P.E.T) talks about determining what is the
parents problem vs. what is the kids problem. So it's your problem
(responsibility) to come up with the budget for spending
on "entertainment" in general and up to them to determine what they
spend their money on. And maybe together you can figure out who gets
how much allowance and how much is for shared toys, etc.
Or I could be remembering it wrong...but it still sounds interesting!
--aj
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Robyn Coburn
<<<> My general life principles tend towards not over-consuming,
I think I've posted before about how I have let go of what my notions of
what constitutes a high quality item for Jayn. She really does use the
inexpensive stuff just as much as the quality stuff. If it is a question of
a little treat toy because we are all out together, isn't it better to buy
something cheap, and save our money for other things that are more costly?
I simply don't go into the chain stores unless I am willing to buy Jayn a
toy (often our only reason for going!)
If Jayn can't see as I do, that something is poorly made, or going to fade
or break or not work as advertised, I'm not going destroy her joy in the
object to make some point about consumerism or comparison shopping.
Sometimes in the past I have warned her that the doll is a bit more fragile
than her Barbies. I do that much less now that she is more likely to point
out to me where they are flimsy. But she will still want it! I try to stay
away from value judgements since Jayn has her own reasons for wanting
things. I figure an awareness of quality will come in time.
Some of her favorite toys are little paper people that we cut out and Jayn
decorates with markers - they turn into all kinds of story characters. Jayn
sometimes enjoys that some doll's heads come off easily. Really cheap
plastic toys make great pool or bathtub toys, and are easily tossed when
mildew overtakes them.
Stuff gets modified and recombined. A couple of days ago, she took her very
big stuffed unicorn (like a giant floor pillow) and cut it open across the
abdomen. She pulled out quite a lot of the stuffing, which spread around the
area near the sofa, and turned out to be quite tactile and interestingly
slippy underfoot. The next day we both enjoyed sweeping the stuff up with a
whisk broom and pushing it back in. Every day since, I have asked her if I
can sew up the hole, and she says "not yet".
I remember being afraid to tell my mother that one of the legs on my newest
birthday Barbie had come off, because I would have been punished for
breaking it. I wasn't able to push it back on myself, so I assumed it was
irreparable. I played with her for years with an elastic band holding her
leg on, feeling frustrated with it, but not daring to ask for another one.
It is only recently with Jayn's Barbies that I have realized how easy it is
to snap the legs back on - if you have adult hand strength. I don't know if
Barbies actually were terrifically expensive to buy in the mid-sixties in
Hong Kong, or if I was just given that idea by my mother in order to foster
a sense of gratitude or obligation, and make me not ask for stuff. I never
had candy either - having been convinced that it was all really expensive. I
know better now.
It feels awful to have to tell Jayn that something is really too expensive
for us to buy right now. The other day I was trying to explain that we
needed to save some money for our trip to Disneyland next week, when she
will surely want to buy a doll or two that are not available elsewhere. She
was very unhappy, and started making up all sorts of reasons to not go to
Disneyland so she could get a doll now. We were actually in the car on a
non-toy related errand, nowhere near any toy store. She ended up desperately
unhappy and wanting to go home, so I put off the errand (non-urgent but
still undone) and brought her home. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't find a
99c store on the way and grab a piece of "plastic crap" so that the errand
would have been completed.
It is hard to walk the line between the truth about what we can afford, and
putting our adult "money woes" or different priorities on to her. I don't
want her to start to worry about money.
She has a few dollar bills in her little handbag for fun, which she
sometimes offers us for candy or something at the market. We let her keep
it, and just add the item to the buggy. However I think she is too young in
her math understanding for an allowance - all coins are still "quarters". On
those occasions when it is possible, I show her the price tags and talk to
her about how this one toy costs as much as all these toys put together.
Usually she will choose quantity over quality, but not always. I suppose it
doesn't help that we use debit cards almost all the time instead of cash!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
> especially of low quality, low life-expectancy stuff with highWhat if the kids as for cheap plastic crap? >>>>
> environmental impact (cheap, plastic crap, in other words).
I think I've posted before about how I have let go of what my notions of
what constitutes a high quality item for Jayn. She really does use the
inexpensive stuff just as much as the quality stuff. If it is a question of
a little treat toy because we are all out together, isn't it better to buy
something cheap, and save our money for other things that are more costly?
I simply don't go into the chain stores unless I am willing to buy Jayn a
toy (often our only reason for going!)
If Jayn can't see as I do, that something is poorly made, or going to fade
or break or not work as advertised, I'm not going destroy her joy in the
object to make some point about consumerism or comparison shopping.
Sometimes in the past I have warned her that the doll is a bit more fragile
than her Barbies. I do that much less now that she is more likely to point
out to me where they are flimsy. But she will still want it! I try to stay
away from value judgements since Jayn has her own reasons for wanting
things. I figure an awareness of quality will come in time.
Some of her favorite toys are little paper people that we cut out and Jayn
decorates with markers - they turn into all kinds of story characters. Jayn
sometimes enjoys that some doll's heads come off easily. Really cheap
plastic toys make great pool or bathtub toys, and are easily tossed when
mildew overtakes them.
Stuff gets modified and recombined. A couple of days ago, she took her very
big stuffed unicorn (like a giant floor pillow) and cut it open across the
abdomen. She pulled out quite a lot of the stuffing, which spread around the
area near the sofa, and turned out to be quite tactile and interestingly
slippy underfoot. The next day we both enjoyed sweeping the stuff up with a
whisk broom and pushing it back in. Every day since, I have asked her if I
can sew up the hole, and she says "not yet".
I remember being afraid to tell my mother that one of the legs on my newest
birthday Barbie had come off, because I would have been punished for
breaking it. I wasn't able to push it back on myself, so I assumed it was
irreparable. I played with her for years with an elastic band holding her
leg on, feeling frustrated with it, but not daring to ask for another one.
It is only recently with Jayn's Barbies that I have realized how easy it is
to snap the legs back on - if you have adult hand strength. I don't know if
Barbies actually were terrifically expensive to buy in the mid-sixties in
Hong Kong, or if I was just given that idea by my mother in order to foster
a sense of gratitude or obligation, and make me not ask for stuff. I never
had candy either - having been convinced that it was all really expensive. I
know better now.
It feels awful to have to tell Jayn that something is really too expensive
for us to buy right now. The other day I was trying to explain that we
needed to save some money for our trip to Disneyland next week, when she
will surely want to buy a doll or two that are not available elsewhere. She
was very unhappy, and started making up all sorts of reasons to not go to
Disneyland so she could get a doll now. We were actually in the car on a
non-toy related errand, nowhere near any toy store. She ended up desperately
unhappy and wanting to go home, so I put off the errand (non-urgent but
still undone) and brought her home. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't find a
99c store on the way and grab a piece of "plastic crap" so that the errand
would have been completed.
It is hard to walk the line between the truth about what we can afford, and
putting our adult "money woes" or different priorities on to her. I don't
want her to start to worry about money.
She has a few dollar bills in her little handbag for fun, which she
sometimes offers us for candy or something at the market. We let her keep
it, and just add the item to the buggy. However I think she is too young in
her math understanding for an allowance - all coins are still "quarters". On
those occasions when it is possible, I show her the price tags and talk to
her about how this one toy costs as much as all these toys put together.
Usually she will choose quantity over quality, but not always. I suppose it
doesn't help that we use debit cards almost all the time instead of cash!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
the interests and the passions of the parents, as well as the kids.
your top priority now and so you're not gardening (it's not mine
either ;-). But if gardening was really important to you, I wouldn't
see anything wrong with saying "I'll make mighty beanz houses for
awhile, then I'm going to go garden for awhile. You're welcome to
bring your mighty beanz and play outside and talk with me while I
garden." "(okay, so I have do admit, I have no clue about what these
mighty beanz things are...)
I tend to hang with the kids some of the time, and do my own things
some of the time. That might include gardening, exercising, writing,
or internet/email. The kids needs don't always take priority over
mine, and mine don't take priority over the kids - we try to work it
out so everyone feels like they're getting enough of mom (including
mom!) and that the stuff the kids want to accomplish gets
accomplished, and the same for my stuff.
clean up places like Ebola wards. I'm pretty sure it kills just about
everything in its path, mold included.
up in a fairly small town (1800 people) but there were tons of places
to ride bikes to (including the soda shop and ice cream place, of
course). But there was also the museum, the park, friend's houses,
the "chinese diggin's" up behind town (old gold mining area where
treasures could be found), etc. I don't know what age they are, but
what about packing a picnic and going on a bike ride together? We
have a place that we bike to and eat lunch sometimes, it's just a
grove of old oak trees out behind the fairgrounds, but we take a
picnic there sometimes just for fun, it's about a mile or so from our
house.
control where/when/how they spend or save their money. It gives them
an idea of worth, value, long-term value, etc. My son, Mackenzie,
calls toys that have been good purchases (that he has continued to
enjoy playing with) things that have "sticking power". Things that
don't have "sticking power" are those things that are used a few
times and forgotten. He has started evaluating potential "sticking
power" when he makes his purchases. I think that's a cool thing.
money to buy everything in the world that they might possibly want,
so saying "no" is inevitable. I don't usually say "no" either. I
might say "We don't have the money for that right now, but you can
save up for it, or add it to your birthday or Christmas list." They
know that if it's something that they really want, they can either
buy it themselves, ask for it as a present for a special occasion, or
remind us at some time in the future when we might have more money
available. It's not really a "no", but "when circumstances allow".
Also, even if we did have the money to buy them lots of stuff, our
family might choose not to in order to do something else. We are
hoping to go to Australia next winter, for instance, and will
probably have enough frequent flier miles to get there. But we'll
need to use some of our available spending money to save up for that,
and if we spend it all on random purchases, we won't get to
Australia. Since the whole family wants to go, it makes it easier to
make decisions about impulse purchases.
them my principles and reasons for why I feel the way that I do. Like
I don't like to buy things that are made in China, for instance. My
mom has not bought a single thing made in China since Tiennamen
Square. I admire that, and "voting with your dollars" is a big
concept for me. I try to make sure that what I'm paying for is
something that I really want to own (including all the potential
negative consequences of buying it, like supporting governments I
don't agree with, etc.) I think the kids respect that, just as I
respect the fact that my son turned down BBQ chicken today because he
doesn't like the thought of killing animals. We all have different
principles and make our decisions likewise.
value system might be different than mine. That's why they get an
allowance because I have no urge to completely control what they
spend money on. But as far as what I spend money on, yes I determine
it according to my own values. Of course, I try to keep an open mind!
I was pretty much against Pokemon (in my own head) when the kids got
into it, but I still rented Pokemon movies for them and took them to
playdates to trade cards, and bought little cardholders to help them
keep their cards, and helped them read the names and information
about the Pokemon. I have to say, the little pocket monsters have
grown on me. So I try to keep my mind open, and we also talk a lot
about these things so that decisions are measured. But yes, the
ultimate decision on my money rests with me, and theirs rests with
them. If I buy something, I evaluate it according to whether I think
we're going to use it in the long haul, whether it is made and sold
locally, how environmentally friendly it is, how much we (or the kids
want it) and all sorts of other criteria. Their criteria are their
own.
to stuff, I had to be so myself. Having grown up in a pack-rat
household, it took awhile for me to look at my possessions and really
see which ones brought me joy and were useful, and which ones I was
just moving from shelf to shelf and place to place and were draining
me of energy. As I started getting rid of my own stuff, it was easier
for my kids to do so too. That's just how it happened here. That's
not to say that there aren't things that are very valuable to each of
us (and in more ways than monetarily) but we try to distinguish
between the stuff that *is* meaningful and the stuff that is not.
markets. If they sold soaps, they'd probably sell them there as well,
or maybe get a booth at the local Saturday market, or go around to
local stores and try to convince them to carry the soaps.
One thing that makes a difference for my son is that he is a born
salesman. When he was selling his plants at the garage sales, he was
*working* it. He would stand out in front of his little table and
approach people: "Hey, you look like you could use a plant!", "How
about my ground covers, they save you from weeding!" "Are deer eating
your flowers? I have several deer-resistant varieties!" OMG, he was
so cute that I think half of the people buying plants just did so
because he was really working hard at it. At the kid's flea market, I
heard a lot of the kids complaining that they didn't do much
business, but Mackenzie was one of the few kids I saw who was really
out in front of his table *actively* selling. I know that kind of
personality is not in everyone (I am not like this at all), but if
you know how to sell, there is always a market.
And just because I can't resist, here's a photo from a couple of
years back of him with his little money belt, pointing out the
benefits of his plants to some customers at a garage sale:
http://www.exmsft.com/~robinc/May_02_Plant_Sale5_s.jpg
and asking if people need help? I don't know if she would want to do
that, it's very hard for some people (kids or adults) to do. Or
sitting with the cash register and making all the change. My kids are
a bit (ha!) on the gregarious side, but I know it's probably harder
in this department for kids who are more introverted. Still, it seems
to me that adults take kids seriously when the kids are assertive, so
talking about that might help.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
wrote:
> I've read the book. :) I could really get into the simplicityton
> lifestyle but the rest of my family doesn't. I wanted to plant a
> of stuff out in the yard this year and make tons of stuff fromI think there should be a time/place in an unschooling lifestyle for
> scratch, but there just isn't enough time because my kids aren't
> wanting me to do other stuff.
the interests and the passions of the parents, as well as the kids.
> So instead of gardening today, I madethe
> houses for mighty beanz out of cardboard boxes and tubes. One of
> houses has an elevator! And after supper we're sewing pillows andtime
> beds and couches for the mighty beanz houses. I guess I'll have
> to garden when I'm old and the kids are grown. ;)I think it's all a matter of priorities. Obviously, gardening isn't
your top priority now and so you're not gardening (it's not mine
either ;-). But if gardening was really important to you, I wouldn't
see anything wrong with saying "I'll make mighty beanz houses for
awhile, then I'm going to go garden for awhile. You're welcome to
bring your mighty beanz and play outside and talk with me while I
garden." "(okay, so I have do admit, I have no clue about what these
mighty beanz things are...)
I tend to hang with the kids some of the time, and do my own things
some of the time. That might include gardening, exercising, writing,
or internet/email. The kids needs don't always take priority over
mine, and mine don't take priority over the kids - we try to work it
out so everyone feels like they're getting enough of mom (including
mom!) and that the stuff the kids want to accomplish gets
accomplished, and the same for my stuff.
> The machine wasJust FYI, a future tip might be to use bleach. The CDC uses it to
> black and moldy and I didn't think I could save the ice cream maker
> and still have it not be a health hazard, so I threw it out and we
> bought a new one at Wal-mart.
clean up places like Ebola wards. I'm pretty sure it kills just about
everything in its path, mold included.
>I think they like to have somewhere to ride bikes TO-for
> -a destination and a purpose for riding, rather than just riding
> the sake of riding. And that is the only place in town for them toWow, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one. I grew
> ride to except for a playground.
up in a fairly small town (1800 people) but there were tons of places
to ride bikes to (including the soda shop and ice cream place, of
course). But there was also the museum, the park, friend's houses,
the "chinese diggin's" up behind town (old gold mining area where
treasures could be found), etc. I don't know what age they are, but
what about packing a picnic and going on a bike ride together? We
have a place that we bike to and eat lunch sometimes, it's just a
grove of old oak trees out behind the fairgrounds, but we take a
picnic there sometimes just for fun, it's about a mile or so from our
house.
> It's not a matter of me determining what I really want/need. Ivery
> honestly have that under control. It's a matter of me not being
> good at personal limits and knowing when to say no to the kids.that
> That's why I'm thinking I should move to an allowance system, so
> they have to make the decisions of when to say no instead of me.It might work well for you. I like it because it lets our kids
control where/when/how they spend or save their money. It gives them
an idea of worth, value, long-term value, etc. My son, Mackenzie,
calls toys that have been good purchases (that he has continued to
enjoy playing with) things that have "sticking power". Things that
don't have "sticking power" are those things that are used a few
times and forgotten. He has started evaluating potential "sticking
power" when he makes his purchases. I think that's a cool thing.
> ButI don't know, to me that's just part of life. We *don't* have the
> still, I think they will run out of money and ask me to buy them
> stuff and I'll still have to say no, I can't afford that. That is
> hard for me.
money to buy everything in the world that they might possibly want,
so saying "no" is inevitable. I don't usually say "no" either. I
might say "We don't have the money for that right now, but you can
save up for it, or add it to your birthday or Christmas list." They
know that if it's something that they really want, they can either
buy it themselves, ask for it as a present for a special occasion, or
remind us at some time in the future when we might have more money
available. It's not really a "no", but "when circumstances allow".
Also, even if we did have the money to buy them lots of stuff, our
family might choose not to in order to do something else. We are
hoping to go to Australia next winter, for instance, and will
probably have enough frequent flier miles to get there. But we'll
need to use some of our available spending money to save up for that,
and if we spend it all on random purchases, we won't get to
Australia. Since the whole family wants to go, it makes it easier to
make decisions about impulse purchases.
> What if the kids ask for cheap plastic crap?They buy it themselves. Or we get it at a yardsale. I've explained to
them my principles and reasons for why I feel the way that I do. Like
I don't like to buy things that are made in China, for instance. My
mom has not bought a single thing made in China since Tiennamen
Square. I admire that, and "voting with your dollars" is a big
concept for me. I try to make sure that what I'm paying for is
something that I really want to own (including all the potential
negative consequences of buying it, like supporting governments I
don't agree with, etc.) I think the kids respect that, just as I
respect the fact that my son turned down BBQ chicken today because he
doesn't like the thought of killing animals. We all have different
principles and make our decisions likewise.
> So you're okay with saying no to something they want, with your noYou bet. I don't limit what they buy with their own money - their
> being determined by your values or judgement rather than theirs?
value system might be different than mine. That's why they get an
allowance because I have no urge to completely control what they
spend money on. But as far as what I spend money on, yes I determine
it according to my own values. Of course, I try to keep an open mind!
I was pretty much against Pokemon (in my own head) when the kids got
into it, but I still rented Pokemon movies for them and took them to
playdates to trade cards, and bought little cardholders to help them
keep their cards, and helped them read the names and information
about the Pokemon. I have to say, the little pocket monsters have
grown on me. So I try to keep my mind open, and we also talk a lot
about these things so that decisions are measured. But yes, the
ultimate decision on my money rests with me, and theirs rests with
them. If I buy something, I evaluate it according to whether I think
we're going to use it in the long haul, whether it is made and sold
locally, how environmentally friendly it is, how much we (or the kids
want it) and all sorts of other criteria. Their criteria are their
own.
> My kids are very rarely willing to get rid of anything. We've gotOne thing that I realized was that for my kids to become unattached
> LOTS of clutter, but we also use all of it at some point or
> another.
to stuff, I had to be so myself. Having grown up in a pack-rat
household, it took awhile for me to look at my possessions and really
see which ones brought me joy and were useful, and which ones I was
just moving from shelf to shelf and place to place and were draining
me of energy. As I started getting rid of my own stuff, it was easier
for my kids to do so too. That's just how it happened here. That's
not to say that there aren't things that are very valuable to each of
us (and in more ways than monetarily) but we try to distinguish
between the stuff that *is* meaningful and the stuff that is not.
> That's cool. Who would they sell their plants or soaps to?Well, Mackenzie has sold plants at garage sales and kid's flea
markets. If they sold soaps, they'd probably sell them there as well,
or maybe get a booth at the local Saturday market, or go around to
local stores and try to convince them to carry the soaps.
> That'sThere are markets everywhere, but you have to go out and find them.
> been our problem with the kids came up with business ideas--no
> market.
One thing that makes a difference for my son is that he is a born
salesman. When he was selling his plants at the garage sales, he was
*working* it. He would stand out in front of his little table and
approach people: "Hey, you look like you could use a plant!", "How
about my ground covers, they save you from weeding!" "Are deer eating
your flowers? I have several deer-resistant varieties!" OMG, he was
so cute that I think half of the people buying plants just did so
because he was really working hard at it. At the kid's flea market, I
heard a lot of the kids complaining that they didn't do much
business, but Mackenzie was one of the few kids I saw who was really
out in front of his table *actively* selling. I know that kind of
personality is not in everyone (I am not like this at all), but if
you know how to sell, there is always a market.
And just because I can't resist, here's a photo from a couple of
years back of him with his little money belt, pointing out the
benefits of his plants to some customers at a garage sale:
http://www.exmsft.com/~robinc/May_02_Plant_Sale5_s.jpg
>We talked about buying a vending machine to set up in theirworking
> grandpa's flea market. Alisha tried working at the flea market but
> she got really bored by it and didn't want to spend the time
> there (but she wanted the money!) It was also frustrating for herMaybe you could work with her on being proactive? Like walking out
> because people didn't come to her to pay or to ask for help because
> she wasn't an adult.
and asking if people need help? I don't know if she would want to do
that, it's very hard for some people (kids or adults) to do. Or
sitting with the cash register and making all the change. My kids are
a bit (ha!) on the gregarious side, but I know it's probably harder
in this department for kids who are more introverted. Still, it seems
to me that adults take kids seriously when the kids are assertive, so
talking about that might help.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
in the living room with friends right now playing with a boatload of
cheap plastic crap, LOL, that they got at a garage sale we walked to
this afternoon. Understanding my views about the earth, consumerism,
etc. has not dampened their joy in the least. It was fun to watch
them bargain, compare, combine money with friends, and try to get the
most bang for their buck at the garage sale.
When we were at the garage sale, one of the kids had to go in and use
the bathroom. The person's house who was having the sale definitely
took clutter to the extreme. My daughter said "If we bought all that
kind of stuff, would our house look like that?" and I said it might,
she said "I'm glad we don't do that then!" I think, different strokes
for different folks. Both the kids and us appreciate the lack of
overall clutter in the house, but they have enough stuff that they
are occupied from morning 'til night playing, creating, building
stuff out of new stuff and old stuff. Yesterday the girls took about
an hour making their own shoes from tinfoil, saran wrap, and a ball
of yarn. They'll play with just about anything! I think it's a nice
balance between having too much stuff, and not enough, and that's
where we're all comfortable. In other families, the balance lies in a
different place.
in the western world because people aren't doing it all over the
globe. If everyone around the world created, consumed, and tossed as
much cheap plastic stuff as we do, we'd be buried in the stuff.
Sooner or later, it's going to grind to a stop (unless they can
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.)
We've just chosen to try to stop sooner than others, I guess, or else
we buy the stuff used at 1/10th the price because someone else bought
it new. I guess we keep it out of the landfill for a little while
longer. I think it *is* a hard line to walk when value systems
collide (like my values about plastic and consumption colliding with
my values about letting my kids experience the things they want to).
We try to find a good balancing point somewhere in there, but it's
not always easy!
sadness could only be allayed by purchasing something. Especially if
any old cheap piece of plastic crap would do to buy her happiness to
complete an errand. Now I can see if a child really wants something
specific and then we would talk about when/how they/we could work
towards getting that thing, but just wanting to buy *something* is a
different story, to me.
there are plans in place to continue to do so, they probably won't
worry about money. Our kids know that we've got enough to cover
everything that they need - food, house, some toys, and that we have
plans that would cover any scenario to make sure that their basic
needs are covered. Not buying them toys every time they ask for them
has not in the least made them worry about money. Our family *was*
very tight on money for a couple of years after 9/11 and they knew
that we had to tighten down on a lot of our spending. They also know
that we have more money now, and can therefore spend more on things
we "want" as opposed to just the needs. I don't think during either
period that they worried about the money situation, we just continued
to talk to them about it as much as they wanted to.
I don't know how old she is, but our 4 y.o. has been getting an
allowance for a year. If she wants something, I just do the math for
her - tell her how much it is, how much she has, how much she'll have
left over or how long she'll have to save up to get it. In the
process of doing this, she's learned quite a bit about it, even if
she doesn't understand all the ins and outs of it (at the garage sale
today, she was a bit miffed that her brother got chance back and she
didn't. I had to explain again about making change and why he got
money back).
Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day, about how hard it is
for our kids to conceptualize money when we just don't use it all
that often. Mostly it's plastic cards changing hands, and that just
isn't nearly as tangible. So I try to keep change and dollar bills on
me for things like garage sales. Also, giving the kids allowance in
actual dollar bills and coins helps make it more real to them.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> If Jayn can't see as I do, that something is poorly made, or goingto fade
> or break or not work as advertised, I'm not going destroy her joyin the
> object to make some point about consumerism or comparison shopping.That hasn't been our experience at all. In fact, my kids are sitting
in the living room with friends right now playing with a boatload of
cheap plastic crap, LOL, that they got at a garage sale we walked to
this afternoon. Understanding my views about the earth, consumerism,
etc. has not dampened their joy in the least. It was fun to watch
them bargain, compare, combine money with friends, and try to get the
most bang for their buck at the garage sale.
When we were at the garage sale, one of the kids had to go in and use
the bathroom. The person's house who was having the sale definitely
took clutter to the extreme. My daughter said "If we bought all that
kind of stuff, would our house look like that?" and I said it might,
she said "I'm glad we don't do that then!" I think, different strokes
for different folks. Both the kids and us appreciate the lack of
overall clutter in the house, but they have enough stuff that they
are occupied from morning 'til night playing, creating, building
stuff out of new stuff and old stuff. Yesterday the girls took about
an hour making their own shoes from tinfoil, saran wrap, and a ball
of yarn. They'll play with just about anything! I think it's a nice
balance between having too much stuff, and not enough, and that's
where we're all comfortable. In other families, the balance lies in a
different place.
>Really cheapwhen
> plastic toys make great pool or bathtub toys, and are easily tossed
> mildew overtakes them.Now see, I have to disagree with this. We can only afford to do this
in the western world because people aren't doing it all over the
globe. If everyone around the world created, consumed, and tossed as
much cheap plastic stuff as we do, we'd be buried in the stuff.
Sooner or later, it's going to grind to a stop (unless they can
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.)
We've just chosen to try to stop sooner than others, I guess, or else
we buy the stuff used at 1/10th the price because someone else bought
it new. I guess we keep it out of the landfill for a little while
longer. I think it *is* a hard line to walk when value systems
collide (like my values about plastic and consumption colliding with
my values about letting my kids experience the things they want to).
We try to find a good balancing point somewhere in there, but it's
not always easy!
> It feels awful to have to tell Jayn that something is really tooexpensive
> for us to buy right now. The other day I was trying to explain thatwe
> needed to save some money for our trip to Disneyland next week,when she
> will surely want to buy a doll or two that are not availableelsewhere. She
> was very unhappy, and started making up all sorts of reasons to notgo to
> Disneyland so she could get a doll now. We were actually in the caron a
> non-toy related errand, nowhere near any toy store. She ended updesperately
> unhappy and wanting to go home, so I put off the errand (non-urgentbut
> still undone) and brought her home. In retrospect I'm sorry Ididn't find a
> 99c store on the way and grab a piece of "plastic crap" so that theerrand
> would have been completed.I don't know, to me it would feel uncomfortable to have a child whose
sadness could only be allayed by purchasing something. Especially if
any old cheap piece of plastic crap would do to buy her happiness to
complete an errand. Now I can see if a child really wants something
specific and then we would talk about when/how they/we could work
towards getting that thing, but just wanting to buy *something* is a
different story, to me.
> It is hard to walk the line between the truth about what we canafford, and
> putting our adult "money woes" or different priorities on to her. Idon't
> want her to start to worry about money.I think as long as kids know that their needs are taken care of, and
there are plans in place to continue to do so, they probably won't
worry about money. Our kids know that we've got enough to cover
everything that they need - food, house, some toys, and that we have
plans that would cover any scenario to make sure that their basic
needs are covered. Not buying them toys every time they ask for them
has not in the least made them worry about money. Our family *was*
very tight on money for a couple of years after 9/11 and they knew
that we had to tighten down on a lot of our spending. They also know
that we have more money now, and can therefore spend more on things
we "want" as opposed to just the needs. I don't think during either
period that they worried about the money situation, we just continued
to talk to them about it as much as they wanted to.
> She has a few dollar bills in her little handbag for fun, which sheher keep
> sometimes offers us for candy or something at the market. We let
> it, and just add the item to the buggy. However I think she is tooyoung in
> her math understanding for an allowance - all coins arestill "quarters".
I don't know how old she is, but our 4 y.o. has been getting an
allowance for a year. If she wants something, I just do the math for
her - tell her how much it is, how much she has, how much she'll have
left over or how long she'll have to save up to get it. In the
process of doing this, she's learned quite a bit about it, even if
she doesn't understand all the ins and outs of it (at the garage sale
today, she was a bit miffed that her brother got chance back and she
didn't. I had to explain again about making change and why he got
money back).
>Isuppose it
> doesn't help that we use debit cards almost all the time instead ofcash!
Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day, about how hard it is
for our kids to conceptualize money when we just don't use it all
that often. Mostly it's plastic cards changing hands, and that just
isn't nearly as tangible. So I try to keep change and dollar bills on
me for things like garage sales. Also, giving the kids allowance in
actual dollar bills and coins helps make it more real to them.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
J. Stauffer
<<<< Maybe someday I'll figure out how to draw the line in the right place
<grin>>>>>
We have a different line for different kids depending on how they want to
handle things. Adriane can't stand the toothpaste the rest of the family
uses, she likes the expensive shampoos, etc.. I give her much more money
than the rest of the kids and she buys EVERYTHING herself, clothes, movies,
makeup, tampons, etc..
Zach doesn't want to deal with necessities but likes to buy all his
"expendable items" like toys, movies, etc.. He gets a middling amount.
The younger kids are only interested in buying candy. They get a small
amount and I buy the rest of the stuff they need or want for them.
Works for us.
Julie S.
<grin>>>>>
We have a different line for different kids depending on how they want to
handle things. Adriane can't stand the toothpaste the rest of the family
uses, she likes the expensive shampoos, etc.. I give her much more money
than the rest of the kids and she buys EVERYTHING herself, clothes, movies,
makeup, tampons, etc..
Zach doesn't want to deal with necessities but likes to buy all his
"expendable items" like toys, movies, etc.. He gets a middling amount.
The younger kids are only interested in buying candy. They get a small
amount and I buy the rest of the stuff they need or want for them.
Works for us.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: money, allowances and buying kids
stuff
> I could use this.
>
> When I gave my kids allowances (and they were generous allowances) I told
them they could decide what to spend their money on.
>
> But then they wanted things they didn't have enough money for, or things
that were in a "gray" area. It made me feel guilty if I didn't help them
buy that pair of pants because it was clothing and not just movie tickets.
>
> I'm not sure where to draw the line. If I give them a certain amount, it
needs to be all I give them, so that I can keep within my budget. I ended
up spending way too much money between the allowances *and* the indulgences.
>
> I just can't do both. So I went back to indulging when I can, and saying
"no" when I can't. Maybe someday I'll figure out how to draw the line in
the right place <grin>
>
> Kristen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mamaaj2000
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 4:58 PM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: money, allowances and buying kids
stuff
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
> wrote:
> >But then
> > I tried this not saying no to kids' requests unschooling philosophy
> > and found myself coming up SHORT every month. I think what I need
> to
> > do is just buckle down and start working with a budget. Something
> on
> > paper that I can show the kids. And giving an allowance for their
> > spending rather than just buying whatever.
>
> I don't know if I'm remembering this quite right, but "Parent
> Effectiveness Training" (P.E.T) talks about determining what is the
> parents problem vs. what is the kids problem. So it's your problem
> (responsibility) to come up with the budget for spending
> on "entertainment" in general and up to them to determine what they
> spend their money on. And maybe together you can figure out who gets
> how much allowance and how much is for shared toys, etc.
>
> Or I could be remembering it wrong...but it still sounds interesting!
>
> --aj
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
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http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
[email protected]
-=-Sooner or later, it's going to grind to a stop (unless they can
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.) -=-
Glass lasts longer that plastic. I don't know about where you all are, but
here plastic that's left outside gets brittle and before many years crumbles
into dirt-sized pieces. Styrofoam is irritaing, but hard plastic doesn't last
too long, in terms of degradability. The milk carton stuff is recycled into
lumber-like stuff. Plastic bags turn to nothingness soon. But enamelled steel
and glass seem to just go on and on and on, at dumps.
And how about ceramics? What is found of prehistoric cultures? Pottery
shards, and that was "just" cooked mud. Roman tile. Enamelled cooked mud. <g>
Plastic gets a worse rap than it needs, in my opinion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.) -=-
Glass lasts longer that plastic. I don't know about where you all are, but
here plastic that's left outside gets brittle and before many years crumbles
into dirt-sized pieces. Styrofoam is irritaing, but hard plastic doesn't last
too long, in terms of degradability. The milk carton stuff is recycled into
lumber-like stuff. Plastic bags turn to nothingness soon. But enamelled steel
and glass seem to just go on and on and on, at dumps.
And how about ceramics? What is found of prehistoric cultures? Pottery
shards, and that was "just" cooked mud. Roman tile. Enamelled cooked mud. <g>
Plastic gets a worse rap than it needs, in my opinion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
> I think there should be a time/place in an unschooling lifestylefor
> the interests and the passions of the parents, as well as the kids.I think it depends on how high-needs the kids are, how old they are
and how many kids there are. Right now my passion is unschooling my
kids, and if I'm going to do a good job of it, there isn't time for
much else. I expect to have time for different, changing interests
as they get older.
My day today was a typical day. I had little breaks here and there
but needed the breaks to rest, not to go pursue another activity.
Collapse into a chair for some computer time here and there, a shower
while the boys watched a video, and a short nap when dh got home.
That's how it usually goes. When I get breaks, I need to rest and
recuperate, not dig into a new project of my own, no matter how
appealing that project is to me!
I made 2 different mighty beanz houses with the kids and spent 1-2
hours on each one. Matt's took the most time because his was 2
stories with an elevator and a fire escape.
Yesterday at the flea market my 4 year old asked his grandpa for a 3
ft. Christmas tree and decorations, and he got it. He is absolutely
fascinated with Christmas, even in May. ;) So we went up and got out
Christmas videos and books and a few decorations from storage. I
helped him untangle Christmas lights and made him a cardboard tunnel
for his train track. (His train track was Thomas the tank engine
track going around the tree.)
2 kids wanted a different kind of koolaid, so I made 2 pitchers of
koolaid. I ran the dishwasher 2 times and did a load of laundry.
Luke broke a Christmas bulb in the livingroom so I had to clean up
that area and then vaccum where he broke it. I heated leftovers up
for supper.
Matt wanted furniture for his mighty beanz house--a bed and a chair.
So we went into storage to go through garbage bags of old sheets and
clothes we saved for cutting up and sewing, and he picked out sheets
to use. I had to clean the kitchen table off to get the sewing
machine out, which had gotten pretty cluttered from different
activities in the last few weeks. I probably spent 1/2 an hour on
that. Then I sewed a bed for the mighty beanz and a matching sheet
for them to cover up with. We didn't do the chair yet so that will
have to wait for tomorrow. We tried gluing popsicle sticks together
to make a chair but that flopped. I'm not an experienced sewer, so
it took me awhile to figure out why the sewing machine wasn't sewing
when I first started (I didn't have it threaded exactly right).
Alisha needs help organizing her room and one idea we came up with
was making a big doghouse out of cardboard boxes for her stuffed
dogs. We did that today.
Matt hit his head on the banister and I needed to take care of that.
Luke took a bath and needed me to help him get the water and wanted
me to help him pick out clothes.
Tomorrow I have to make a dessert to take to a memorial day picnic
and pack up the minivan with extra clothes and stuff we need for the
park. And I promised Matt we could sew his chair and I have a little
bit of grass to mow and I promised Alisha I'd help her organize her
room, and work on her mighty beanz house some more because sometimes
the mighty beanz are getting stuck when they go down the tubes.
Alisha is low on shorts and I don't have any bras clean so I need to
do some laundry. I seem to remember that Luke wanted to do something
tomorrow (probably something to do with Christmas! lol) but I don't
remember what.
And I'm supposed to pursue my own interests when? lol
> I think it's all a matter of priorities. Obviously, gardening isn'tIt's not a huge priority. But I started some seeds indoors that will
> your top priority now and so you're not gardening (it's not mine
> either ;-).
have to be thrown away because I never had time to plant them
outside. It had me stressed out for awhile, but then I just accepted
that it was okay to plant seeds and not finish the project. It has
to be. I did get a few of them planted outside (despite protests
from the kids!)
But if gardening was really important to you, I wouldn't
> see anything wrong with saying "I'll make mighty beanz houses forthese
> awhile, then I'm going to go garden for awhile. You're welcome to
> bring your mighty beanz and play outside and talk with me while I
> garden." "(okay, so I have do admit, I have no clue about what
> mighty beanz things are...)And if they're not happy with that? My kids wouldn't be. They'd cry
and tell me they hate when I don't play with them. If I did it in
spite of their complaints, they'd probably start fighting and someone
would end up crying because they got punched or scratched or kicked
and I'd have to stop gardening anyway to take care of the hurt child
or break up a fight. Or they'd drop a mighty beanz in the grass and
be all upset and need me to search the grass for their mighty bean.
> I tend to hang with the kids some of the time, and do my own thingswriting,
> some of the time. That might include gardening, exercising,
> or internet/email.Lots of times I start a post and go and finish it an hour or two
later because a kid needs me. Or I finish what I'm working on
quickly with a kid standing beside me saying, "Come on, when are you
going to be done on the computer?" I rarely even unload the whole
dishwasher before I get interrupted and asked to go do something.
Usually I do it in spurts, for 30 seconds or a minute at a time when
I'm warming something up in the microwave for someone.
I worried about that for awhile. (me and my over-analyzing again!
lol). I would hear people say that they pursue their own interests
and get all kinds of work done while their kids are off playing by
themselves, only asking for adult input once in awhile. Was there
something wrong that my kids want to spend the majority of their time
with me? Why does trying to never say no to a request seem to mean
that I spend most of my day doing stuff with or for the kids when for
other people it seems all the kids want is a sandwich here and there,
maybe a board game for half an hour and occasional conversation? I'm
getting to the point where I've just accepted that we're all
different, our kids are all different, and the fact that mine need me
a lot just has to be okay.
> Wow, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one. Igrew
> up in a fairly small town (1800 people) but there were tons ofplaces
> to ride bikes to (including the soda shop and ice cream place, ofNo soda shop or ice cream place. Just turkey hill and a cigar store!
> course). But there was also the museum, the park, friend's houses,
> the "chinese diggin's" up behind town (old gold mining area where
> treasures could be found), etc.
lol There is a playground. No library, no museum, and she doesn't
have any friends in town. We have to drive out of town to get
anywhere.
I don't know what age they are, but
> what about packing a picnic and going on a bike ride together?We had done that the day before. I left the younger 2 home with
their dad and went bike riding on a trail with a picnic lunch (we
drove to the trail) with Alisha and her friend and her friend's mom.
I can't do that when I have the younger two with me though, because
they ride slow and can't keep up with the older ones. Matt still
needs me to walk beside him and hold onto the handle bars as he
pedals to keep him from falling off.
> I don't know, to me that's just part of life. We *don't* have theYes, that's very true about it being a part of life to not have money
> money to buy everything in the world that they might possibly want,
> so saying "no" is inevitable. I don't usually say "no" either. I
> might say "We don't have the money for that right now, but you can
> save up for it, or add it to your birthday or Christmas list."
to buy everything in the world. I usually do the same thing too
(telling them they can save for it or add it to wish lists) but I
wish they wouldn't act so darn disappointed.
> And just because I can't resist, here's a photo from a couple ofWhat a great picture! Thanks for sharing!
> years back of him with his little money belt, pointing out the
> benefits of his plants to some customers at a garage sale:
> Maybe you could work with her on being proactive? Like walking outdo
> and asking if people need help? I don't know if she would want to
> that, it's very hard for some people (kids or adults) to do.She's not an outgoing person at all. What I did when she wanted to
try working there was to go with her and when people came up to me to
pay for stuff, I redirected them to her. So in order for her to
spend a day at work earning money, I had to go to work with her.
That worked out okay on days when dh was off of work to stay with the
younger two, but I couldn't do that on days when I had the boys.
She's having a yard sale in a few weeks. She did that before and
that worked out well for her. People seem to be okay with paying
kids at a yard sale.
Sheila
Robyn Coburn
<<<> If Jayn can't see as I do, that something is poorly made, or going
to fade or break or not work as advertised, I'm not going destroy her joy
in the object to make some point about consumerism or comparison shopping.<
That hasn't been our experience at all. In fact, my kids are sitting
in the living room with friends right now playing with a boatload of
cheap plastic crap, LOL, that they got at a garage sale we walked to
this afternoon.>>>>
When Jayn comes running up in to me in a store having found some toy, and it
really is crappy but she is clearly delighted to have found it, I'm not
going to give her a lecture about the relative quality standards of this
item compared to some other toy. I'd rather save that kind of discussion for
when *I* am debating a purchase for myself. She hears me doing price
comparisons, or examining things thoroughly, as well as doing lengthy online
research. She also is with me when I try on clothes before buying and making
returns of things that aren't right.
<<<>Really cheap plastic toys make great pool or bathtub toys, and are
easily tossed when mildew overtakes them.<
Now see, I have to disagree with this. We can only afford to do this
in the western world because people aren't doing it all over the
globe. If everyone around the world created, consumed, and tossed as
much cheap plastic stuff as we do, we'd be buried in the stuff.
Sooner or later, it's going to grind to a stop (unless they can
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.)>>>
There is biodegradable plastic made from corn - the styrofoam type, and also
- as I found out when I bought some apples (organically grown) in a package
- indistinguishable from ordinary clear hard plastic packaging. I believe
there is also plastic made from soy. Biodegradable plastics can't always be
recycled, like into sweatshirts - that has to be the coke bottle stuff. And
then it's windproof.
Toys, regardless of price, used in the bath are going to become mildewed
eventually because moisture gets trapped inside them. My experience has been
that yes, soaking in bleach kills it temporarily, but then back it creeps as
soon as the toy is wet. I'm not going to use something other than plastic as
bath toys - a big favorite are old pump bottles (from cosmetics eg).
Eventually it is going to be tossed - trash or the recycling based on
labeling. I carry my own fabric shopping bags, use cloths instead of paper
towels for general cleaning, reuse Ziplocs numerous times until they split
or have meat juices, sort my trash, and am thoughtful regarding the
environment about the purchases I make for the household and myself. In
return I guess I get to throw away a few small toys that have eventually
become health hazards without guilt.
<<I don't know, to me it would feel uncomfortable to have a child whose
sadness could only be allayed by purchasing something. Especially if
any old cheap piece of plastic crap would do to buy her happiness to
complete an errand. Now I can see if a child really wants something
specific and then we would talk about when/how they/we could work
towards getting that thing, but just wanting to buy *something* is a
different story, to me.>>
On this occasion Jayn didn't become upset until I refused to divert to get
her a doll. I'm sure she thought it was a perfectly reasonable idea. Often
when we are going out to the market, I tell her that this is not a toy
shopping trip. I like Trader Joe's because they don't have toys for sale,
unlike Ralphs (Krogers), so those toy impulse buys are lessened. It has to
be a really special toy (the criteria for this are unrelated to $$) for Jayn
to want to put it on her birthday or Christmas list - and then she gets
upset if we try to buy it for her earlier than that special occasion.
However I have to say that recently, a couple of times she has become
unhappy about something, then her crying has segued into wanting a new toy.
This has been while we are engaged in our regular activities. It's a bit
baffling to me, as she has always been allowed and encouraged to express her
negativity, cry as much as she needs to with courteous and sympathetic
attention, and I have also learned here to encourage her to breathe for
calmness. I certainly don't use acquisition to fix my feelings. I'm not sure
where it's coming from. Maybe it's a kind of distraction, and what she
really wants is a change of scene. I'm hoping it will pass, especially since
it is just about the least successful strategy for getting a new toy ever
devised. Luckily she is rarely unhappy.
How much allowance do you give your 4yo, and how did you arrive at whatever
that figure is?
Robyn L. Coburn
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to fade or break or not work as advertised, I'm not going destroy her joy
in the object to make some point about consumerism or comparison shopping.<
That hasn't been our experience at all. In fact, my kids are sitting
in the living room with friends right now playing with a boatload of
cheap plastic crap, LOL, that they got at a garage sale we walked to
this afternoon.>>>>
When Jayn comes running up in to me in a store having found some toy, and it
really is crappy but she is clearly delighted to have found it, I'm not
going to give her a lecture about the relative quality standards of this
item compared to some other toy. I'd rather save that kind of discussion for
when *I* am debating a purchase for myself. She hears me doing price
comparisons, or examining things thoroughly, as well as doing lengthy online
research. She also is with me when I try on clothes before buying and making
returns of things that aren't right.
<<<>Really cheap plastic toys make great pool or bathtub toys, and are
easily tossed when mildew overtakes them.<
Now see, I have to disagree with this. We can only afford to do this
in the western world because people aren't doing it all over the
globe. If everyone around the world created, consumed, and tossed as
much cheap plastic stuff as we do, we'd be buried in the stuff.
Sooner or later, it's going to grind to a stop (unless they can
invent biodegradable plastic, in which case we might buy more of it.)>>>
There is biodegradable plastic made from corn - the styrofoam type, and also
- as I found out when I bought some apples (organically grown) in a package
- indistinguishable from ordinary clear hard plastic packaging. I believe
there is also plastic made from soy. Biodegradable plastics can't always be
recycled, like into sweatshirts - that has to be the coke bottle stuff. And
then it's windproof.
Toys, regardless of price, used in the bath are going to become mildewed
eventually because moisture gets trapped inside them. My experience has been
that yes, soaking in bleach kills it temporarily, but then back it creeps as
soon as the toy is wet. I'm not going to use something other than plastic as
bath toys - a big favorite are old pump bottles (from cosmetics eg).
Eventually it is going to be tossed - trash or the recycling based on
labeling. I carry my own fabric shopping bags, use cloths instead of paper
towels for general cleaning, reuse Ziplocs numerous times until they split
or have meat juices, sort my trash, and am thoughtful regarding the
environment about the purchases I make for the household and myself. In
return I guess I get to throw away a few small toys that have eventually
become health hazards without guilt.
<<I don't know, to me it would feel uncomfortable to have a child whose
sadness could only be allayed by purchasing something. Especially if
any old cheap piece of plastic crap would do to buy her happiness to
complete an errand. Now I can see if a child really wants something
specific and then we would talk about when/how they/we could work
towards getting that thing, but just wanting to buy *something* is a
different story, to me.>>
On this occasion Jayn didn't become upset until I refused to divert to get
her a doll. I'm sure she thought it was a perfectly reasonable idea. Often
when we are going out to the market, I tell her that this is not a toy
shopping trip. I like Trader Joe's because they don't have toys for sale,
unlike Ralphs (Krogers), so those toy impulse buys are lessened. It has to
be a really special toy (the criteria for this are unrelated to $$) for Jayn
to want to put it on her birthday or Christmas list - and then she gets
upset if we try to buy it for her earlier than that special occasion.
However I have to say that recently, a couple of times she has become
unhappy about something, then her crying has segued into wanting a new toy.
This has been while we are engaged in our regular activities. It's a bit
baffling to me, as she has always been allowed and encouraged to express her
negativity, cry as much as she needs to with courteous and sympathetic
attention, and I have also learned here to encourage her to breathe for
calmness. I certainly don't use acquisition to fix my feelings. I'm not sure
where it's coming from. Maybe it's a kind of distraction, and what she
really wants is a change of scene. I'm hoping it will pass, especially since
it is just about the least successful strategy for getting a new toy ever
devised. Luckily she is rarely unhappy.
How much allowance do you give your 4yo, and how did you arrive at whatever
that figure is?
Robyn L. Coburn
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Robyn Coburn
<<<Plastic bags turn to nothingness soon. >>>
On the coast plastic bags are a much bigger problem because they often blow
into the ocean and sea creatures see them as jellies and ingest them.
Robyn L. Coburn
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On the coast plastic bags are a much bigger problem because they often blow
into the ocean and sea creatures see them as jellies and ingest them.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Libby Morgan
Hello My son is six soon to be seven. He dose get a
pay check (allowance) for doing things around the
house ex. feed the animals, pick up toys, clothes in
hamper,put his clothes in his drawers, set the table
for dinner. Nothing really big but it helps him
remember that things don't just happen by magic. He
gets a dollar for his age, I made pay checks for him.
He reads the check to us to make sure it's right, then
signs the back. He has a savings acount at the bank
and a christmas acount each week he puts a dollar in
both. It works for us and I can tell him to save he
money for a special toy or game and he will. i still
buy him toys but not as much. He will come and say I
want this game cube game its X amount of dollars I
will have to save for ThIS many weeks and he dose. We
like the way this works.
Thanks Libby
--- kayb85 <sheran@...> wrote:
__________________________________
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pay check (allowance) for doing things around the
house ex. feed the animals, pick up toys, clothes in
hamper,put his clothes in his drawers, set the table
for dinner. Nothing really big but it helps him
remember that things don't just happen by magic. He
gets a dollar for his age, I made pay checks for him.
He reads the check to us to make sure it's right, then
signs the back. He has a savings acount at the bank
and a christmas acount each week he puts a dollar in
both. It works for us and I can tell him to save he
money for a special toy or game and he will. i still
buy him toys but not as much. He will come and say I
want this game cube game its X amount of dollars I
will have to save for ThIS many weeks and he dose. We
like the way this works.
Thanks Libby
--- kayb85 <sheran@...> wrote:
> I would appreciate any input on money situations=== message truncated ===
> with kids.
>
> Right now my kids don't have any allowances. I just
> try to buy them
> whatever they ask for whenever I can afford it, but
> it's still
> sometimes hard to say no. Usually what happens is I
> buy them just
> about everything they ask for at yard sales and more
> often than not
> whatever they ask for at thrift shops, and then
> sometimes splurge on
> stuff at regular stores. Sometimes I end up
> spending more than I
> should because I don't want to tell them no.
>
> They get spending money from their grandparents and
> aunt for lots of
> holidays. Valentines day, Easter, summer
> birthdays, Halloween,
> Thanksgiving, Christmas. So they get money that's
> pretty spread out
> throughout the year.
>
> But as I look at what we're doing with money,
> there's something I'm
> not liking. What's happening is that they don't
> ever look for
> bargains. If it's a bargain, I buy it. Their money
> usually goes
> towards impulse purchases at Wal-mart and other such
> stores because
> they know that I will buy the thrifty stuff. I feel
> that maybe my
> current system is keeping them from learning to shop
> for bargains,
> because the bargains are always taken care of and
> their money is
> never spent on a bargain. And maybe it's putting
> too much control of
> their choices in my hands.
>
> For example, this week at Wal-mart, I bought them 2
> noodles (for the
> pool) because ours were getting older and we really
> needed them. I
> also spent $20 on a mighty beanz trading card game
> (2 decks at $10
> each). I figured that was all I could afford to do,
> and only 2
> people can play at a time anyway, so the whole
> family could share the
> two decks. But they each want their own decks (and
> want me to have
> my own deck so that I can play with them but not use
> their cards).
> That would be another $20. They also want booster
> decks which are
> extra. And they each spent the last of their money
> on mighty beanz
> beans ($5 a pack). Alisha was able to afford 2
> packs and Matt was
> only able to afford one. He was upset. But in
> order for him to even
> buy that pack, I had to lend him $3 until he gets
> his birthday
> money. Was it okay for me to buy the trading card
> game but not the
> might beanz toys? Honestly, I think I made the
> decision to buy the
> trading card game because I saw that it would
> provide a lot of fun,
> meaningful time spent together one on one with the
> kids but didn't
> consider the mighty beanz to be as "worthy". So I
> agreed to buy the
> one I saw as more valuable and told them they had to
> pay themselves
> if they wanted the one I didn't think was as
> valuable.
>
> I also said yes to a box of swedish fish candies,
> squirtable
> imitation cheese stuff, a bag of chips, a pack of
> straws, goober
> peanut butter and jelly, strawberry jelly, ice cream
> toppings,
> batteries we needed for toys, and we bought a new
> electric ice cream
> maker. I said no to a set of plastic cups Luke
> liked because we have
> a ton of plastic cups at home. I said no to 88 cent
> candies in the
> check out aisle. Alisha scrounged up the money to
> buy herself one
> and Luke had money to buy one, but Matt was out of
> money and was
> upset that they got one and he didn't.
>
> In addition to the wal-mart trip I took them to a
> discount grocery
> store and gave them $3 a piece to spend on whatever
> they wanted.
> Alisha chose to spend $1 on candy and keep the rest
> cash. Luke spent
> all of his on candy and Matt spent his on the
> gumball and vending
> machines. While at the discount store we saw some
> good deals on toys
> with damaged boxes ($20 toys for only a dollar or
> two), so I also
> bought them those.
>
> Over the weekend I got them TONS of stuff at yard
> sales. I spent $40
> just on beanie babies. I bought them a big
> gymnastic mat, games, a
> few clothes, books, and some other fun stuff.
>
> Also this week I bought Alisha new guitar strings
> and paid for her
> guitar lessons. We pay for her monthly online video
> game
> subscription. Luke (who's about to have his 5th
> birthday) threw a
> fit in the music store because I didn't buy him a
> new electric guitar
> right then and there.) I told him he could play the
> acoustic guitar
> we have any time he wants, and that I would look for
> a used electric
> guitar for him. I even had the guitar in the car and
> offered to take
> him out and let him play the guitar right then and
> there, but he
> wanted the expensive electric guitar that I couldn't
> afford. And of
> course Alisha wants an electric guitar too.
>
> Once this week when they didn't like what I was
> making for supper I
> went to burger king and got them kids meals, which
> they mostly wanted
> because of the toys.
>
> Alisha needs a belt and I'm taking her to the thrift
> store tomorrow
> to look for belts, and taking her to a flea market
> to get more odds
> and ends for her "club".
>
> Alisha needed a special lunch for an outing with
> friends, and she's
> been asking for lunchables (very expensive, imo,
> especially when all
> 3 kids want one!) and I've been saying no to that a
> lot, so I took
> her shopping alone and let her buy a lunchable for
> her special lunch.
>
> I shared all that to show that I'm not always saying
> no. I buy them
> a LOT, but sometimes they're still unhappy because I
> have to say no
> sometimes. Will they ever get to the point where
> they are happy with
> what I do buy them and aren't always wanting more,
> more, more?
>
> Alisha is upset that she "needs" more money. She
> wants to know what
> she could do to get more money. I thought about
> it...she is almost
> 11 so there's nowhere for her to go get a job. I
> told her I'd give
> her $5 if she folds all the laundry that's piling up
> in the
> livingroom. I also said maybe I could pay her to
> cut grass (We use
> an old fashioned push mower so it's not too
> dangerous for her to
> use). Dh and I have toyed with the idea of paying
> someone to come in
> and cut the grass or do housework but never did
> it--but if one of our
> kids wants the job, that seems like a good solution.
> But is paying
> her to do household stuff going against the thing
> I'm trying to do
> with making chores a natural, joyful part of life?
> Would she always
> expect to be paid before she'll do stuff around the
> house? Yet,
> shouldn't I honor her desire to earn money?
> Babysitting wouldn't
> work because she's still afraid to stay home without
> me and doesn't
> like to go places unless I go along. My mom said
> she'd pay her $10
> plus lunch to come and help her clean for a day and
> she
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Danielle Conger
When Jayn comes running up in to me in a store having found some toy, and it
I think that's an excellent distinction. "Teachable moments" have their
place! ITA, that simply by making the decision to buy cheap stuff, impulse
buys, whatever, the kids eventually learn valuable lessons without mom
standing over them and lecturing.
What we've been doing here (dd6, dd5 and ds4) in terms of allowance is a
monthly budget. The girls and I figured out where all the household expenses
and what percentages went to each category--we used a pie chart in my excel
budget sheet. Then we made up envelopes for all the categories relevant to
them--groceries, house, utilities, car, savings, classes, etc. We decided
that each child would get $40 as their monthly budget, out of which they had
to pay bills and would keep as personal money whatever was left over. This
is what I do, so it made sense that is what they could do. They really enjoy
getting all the money and paying it out--gives them a sense that they are
participating in important ways towards keeping things together. They like
having all the bills and different denominations and counting them out.
Now, some months, we don't get the time to do the elaborate ritual, and they
just get handed their "budget money" because we're in the store and they
want something. They know how much they have left over after paying bills,
so that's the amount I give them. They use it for whatever they want, though
I still buy them plenty of stuff throughout the month.
Robyn, I understand what you're saying about plastic money. I pay for
everything with my Discover Card, because then we get free books and movies
with our cashback bonus (only "free" if you pay the bill off in full every
month!). But, here's a story for forewarning:
Recently, I made the mistake of paying for Julia's (5) Polly Pockets stuff
with all the other stuff I was buying (our trip to Alabama--buying stuff for
the beach). OMG! You would've thought I had pinched her she was crying so
hard! She was so devastated that she had to pay me--she didn't want to pay
me, she wanted to pay the cashier. I apologized and offered to return it, so
we could go through the cashier line again. She would have none of it--the
damage was already done! I took away her sense of independence, pride and
ownership when I bought it with all my other stuff. I wasn't thinking in her
terms, and I will never make that mistake again! All I could do was tell her
how sorry I was and that I would never do that again.
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
> really is crappy but she is clearly delighted to have found it, I'm notfor
> going to give her a lecture about the relative quality standards of this
> item compared to some other toy. I'd rather save that kind of discussion
> when *I* am debating a purchase for myself. She hears me doing priceonline
> comparisons, or examining things thoroughly, as well as doing lengthy
> research. She also is with me when I try on clothes before buying andmaking
> returns of things that aren't right.=================
I think that's an excellent distinction. "Teachable moments" have their
place! ITA, that simply by making the decision to buy cheap stuff, impulse
buys, whatever, the kids eventually learn valuable lessons without mom
standing over them and lecturing.
What we've been doing here (dd6, dd5 and ds4) in terms of allowance is a
monthly budget. The girls and I figured out where all the household expenses
and what percentages went to each category--we used a pie chart in my excel
budget sheet. Then we made up envelopes for all the categories relevant to
them--groceries, house, utilities, car, savings, classes, etc. We decided
that each child would get $40 as their monthly budget, out of which they had
to pay bills and would keep as personal money whatever was left over. This
is what I do, so it made sense that is what they could do. They really enjoy
getting all the money and paying it out--gives them a sense that they are
participating in important ways towards keeping things together. They like
having all the bills and different denominations and counting them out.
Now, some months, we don't get the time to do the elaborate ritual, and they
just get handed their "budget money" because we're in the store and they
want something. They know how much they have left over after paying bills,
so that's the amount I give them. They use it for whatever they want, though
I still buy them plenty of stuff throughout the month.
Robyn, I understand what you're saying about plastic money. I pay for
everything with my Discover Card, because then we get free books and movies
with our cashback bonus (only "free" if you pay the bill off in full every
month!). But, here's a story for forewarning:
Recently, I made the mistake of paying for Julia's (5) Polly Pockets stuff
with all the other stuff I was buying (our trip to Alabama--buying stuff for
the beach). OMG! You would've thought I had pinched her she was crying so
hard! She was so devastated that she had to pay me--she didn't want to pay
me, she wanted to pay the cashier. I apologized and offered to return it, so
we could go through the cashier line again. She would have none of it--the
damage was already done! I took away her sense of independence, pride and
ownership when I bought it with all my other stuff. I wasn't thinking in her
terms, and I will never make that mistake again! All I could do was tell her
how sorry I was and that I would never do that again.
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
try not to comment on whatever toys they choose to buy, unless they
ask me for my advice. They had a really bad experience last year
buying these toy submarines that were supposed to work underwater
that were just really lame and didn't really do anything. I think
that showed them more than any lecture I might give them. Sometimes
they ask me now if I think a toy will do what it is supposed to.
stuff. Right now though, toys are made from about the worst type of
plastic. It doesn't biodegrade, can't be recycled, is manufactured
using all kinds of nasty chemicals, and also leaches these chemicals
into landfills and groundwater when they're thrown away. I do hope
that these things will change as plastic manufacturing gets
more "green".
that. My 4 y.o. doesn't spend her money very often, my 7 y.o. has
always been more interested in stuff than she is. They put some of
that money in long-term savings - we just have two jars in the
cupboard for each of them so they can see their money easily. DH
takes them to the bank whenever they need to deposit money into long
term savings.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> When Jayn comes running up in to me in a store having found sometoy, and it
> really is crappy but she is clearly delighted to have found it, I'mnot
> going to give her a lecture about the relative quality standards ofthis
> item compared to some other toy.Nope, me either. That's why they can buy it with their own money. I
try not to comment on whatever toys they choose to buy, unless they
ask me for my advice. They had a really bad experience last year
buying these toy submarines that were supposed to work underwater
that were just really lame and didn't really do anything. I think
that showed them more than any lecture I might give them. Sometimes
they ask me now if I think a toy will do what it is supposed to.
> There is biodegradable plastic made from corn - the styrofoam type,and also
> - as I found out when I bought some apples (organically grown) in apackage
> - indistinguishable from ordinary clear hard plastic packaging. Ibelieve
> there is also plastic made from soy.Yeah, I hope eventually plastic toys will be made from this kind of
stuff. Right now though, toys are made from about the worst type of
plastic. It doesn't biodegrade, can't be recycled, is manufactured
using all kinds of nasty chemicals, and also leaches these chemicals
into landfills and groundwater when they're thrown away. I do hope
that these things will change as plastic manufacturing gets
more "green".
> How much allowance do you give your 4yo, and how did you arrive atwhatever
> that figure is?We give each kid their age in dollars. So far, they're both fine with
that. My 4 y.o. doesn't spend her money very often, my 7 y.o. has
always been more interested in stuff than she is. They put some of
that money in long-term savings - we just have two jars in the
cupboard for each of them so they can see their money easily. DH
takes them to the bank whenever they need to deposit money into long
term savings.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
J. Stauffer
<<<<They'd cry
had been playing with them for a while and then were going to spend a while
doing what you wanted to do.
I know even my 4yo would completely understand that.
Julie S.
> and tell me they hate when I don't play with them. >>>>>I hope this is an exaggeration to make a point. The suggestion was that you
had been playing with them for a while and then were going to spend a while
doing what you wanted to do.
I know even my 4yo would completely understand that.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 11:46 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: money, allowances and buying kids stuff
>
> > I think there should be a time/place in an unschooling lifestyle
> for
> > the interests and the passions of the parents, as well as the kids.
>
> I think it depends on how high-needs the kids are, how old they are
> and how many kids there are. Right now my passion is unschooling my
> kids, and if I'm going to do a good job of it, there isn't time for
> much else. I expect to have time for different, changing interests
> as they get older.
>
> My day today was a typical day. I had little breaks here and there
> but needed the breaks to rest, not to go pursue another activity.
> Collapse into a chair for some computer time here and there, a shower
> while the boys watched a video, and a short nap when dh got home.
> That's how it usually goes. When I get breaks, I need to rest and
> recuperate, not dig into a new project of my own, no matter how
> appealing that project is to me!
>
> I made 2 different mighty beanz houses with the kids and spent 1-2
> hours on each one. Matt's took the most time because his was 2
> stories with an elevator and a fire escape.
>
> Yesterday at the flea market my 4 year old asked his grandpa for a 3
> ft. Christmas tree and decorations, and he got it. He is absolutely
> fascinated with Christmas, even in May. ;) So we went up and got out
> Christmas videos and books and a few decorations from storage. I
> helped him untangle Christmas lights and made him a cardboard tunnel
> for his train track. (His train track was Thomas the tank engine
> track going around the tree.)
>
> 2 kids wanted a different kind of koolaid, so I made 2 pitchers of
> koolaid. I ran the dishwasher 2 times and did a load of laundry.
> Luke broke a Christmas bulb in the livingroom so I had to clean up
> that area and then vaccum where he broke it. I heated leftovers up
> for supper.
>
> Matt wanted furniture for his mighty beanz house--a bed and a chair.
> So we went into storage to go through garbage bags of old sheets and
> clothes we saved for cutting up and sewing, and he picked out sheets
> to use. I had to clean the kitchen table off to get the sewing
> machine out, which had gotten pretty cluttered from different
> activities in the last few weeks. I probably spent 1/2 an hour on
> that. Then I sewed a bed for the mighty beanz and a matching sheet
> for them to cover up with. We didn't do the chair yet so that will
> have to wait for tomorrow. We tried gluing popsicle sticks together
> to make a chair but that flopped. I'm not an experienced sewer, so
> it took me awhile to figure out why the sewing machine wasn't sewing
> when I first started (I didn't have it threaded exactly right).
>
> Alisha needs help organizing her room and one idea we came up with
> was making a big doghouse out of cardboard boxes for her stuffed
> dogs. We did that today.
>
> Matt hit his head on the banister and I needed to take care of that.
> Luke took a bath and needed me to help him get the water and wanted
> me to help him pick out clothes.
>
> Tomorrow I have to make a dessert to take to a memorial day picnic
> and pack up the minivan with extra clothes and stuff we need for the
> park. And I promised Matt we could sew his chair and I have a little
> bit of grass to mow and I promised Alisha I'd help her organize her
> room, and work on her mighty beanz house some more because sometimes
> the mighty beanz are getting stuck when they go down the tubes.
> Alisha is low on shorts and I don't have any bras clean so I need to
> do some laundry. I seem to remember that Luke wanted to do something
> tomorrow (probably something to do with Christmas! lol) but I don't
> remember what.
>
> And I'm supposed to pursue my own interests when? lol
>
> > I think it's all a matter of priorities. Obviously, gardening isn't
> > your top priority now and so you're not gardening (it's not mine
> > either ;-).
>
> It's not a huge priority. But I started some seeds indoors that will
> have to be thrown away because I never had time to plant them
> outside. It had me stressed out for awhile, but then I just accepted
> that it was okay to plant seeds and not finish the project. It has
> to be. I did get a few of them planted outside (despite protests
> from the kids!)
>
> But if gardening was really important to you, I wouldn't
> > see anything wrong with saying "I'll make mighty beanz houses for
> > awhile, then I'm going to go garden for awhile. You're welcome to
> > bring your mighty beanz and play outside and talk with me while I
> > garden." "(okay, so I have do admit, I have no clue about what
> these
> > mighty beanz things are...)
>
> And if they're not happy with that? My kids wouldn't be. They'd cry
> and tell me they hate when I don't play with them. If I did it in
> spite of their complaints, they'd probably start fighting and someone
> would end up crying because they got punched or scratched or kicked
> and I'd have to stop gardening anyway to take care of the hurt child
> or break up a fight. Or they'd drop a mighty beanz in the grass and
> be all upset and need me to search the grass for their mighty bean.
>
> > I tend to hang with the kids some of the time, and do my own things
> > some of the time. That might include gardening, exercising,
> writing,
> > or internet/email.
>
> Lots of times I start a post and go and finish it an hour or two
> later because a kid needs me. Or I finish what I'm working on
> quickly with a kid standing beside me saying, "Come on, when are you
> going to be done on the computer?" I rarely even unload the whole
> dishwasher before I get interrupted and asked to go do something.
> Usually I do it in spurts, for 30 seconds or a minute at a time when
> I'm warming something up in the microwave for someone.
>
> I worried about that for awhile. (me and my over-analyzing again!
> lol). I would hear people say that they pursue their own interests
> and get all kinds of work done while their kids are off playing by
> themselves, only asking for adult input once in awhile. Was there
> something wrong that my kids want to spend the majority of their time
> with me? Why does trying to never say no to a request seem to mean
> that I spend most of my day doing stuff with or for the kids when for
> other people it seems all the kids want is a sandwich here and there,
> maybe a board game for half an hour and occasional conversation? I'm
> getting to the point where I've just accepted that we're all
> different, our kids are all different, and the fact that mine need me
> a lot just has to be okay.
>
> > Wow, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one. I
> grew
> > up in a fairly small town (1800 people) but there were tons of
> places
> > to ride bikes to (including the soda shop and ice cream place, of
> > course). But there was also the museum, the park, friend's houses,
> > the "chinese diggin's" up behind town (old gold mining area where
> > treasures could be found), etc.
>
> No soda shop or ice cream place. Just turkey hill and a cigar store!
> lol There is a playground. No library, no museum, and she doesn't
> have any friends in town. We have to drive out of town to get
> anywhere.
>
> I don't know what age they are, but
> > what about packing a picnic and going on a bike ride together?
>
> We had done that the day before. I left the younger 2 home with
> their dad and went bike riding on a trail with a picnic lunch (we
> drove to the trail) with Alisha and her friend and her friend's mom.
> I can't do that when I have the younger two with me though, because
> they ride slow and can't keep up with the older ones. Matt still
> needs me to walk beside him and hold onto the handle bars as he
> pedals to keep him from falling off.
>
> > I don't know, to me that's just part of life. We *don't* have the
> > money to buy everything in the world that they might possibly want,
> > so saying "no" is inevitable. I don't usually say "no" either. I
> > might say "We don't have the money for that right now, but you can
> > save up for it, or add it to your birthday or Christmas list."
>
> Yes, that's very true about it being a part of life to not have money
> to buy everything in the world. I usually do the same thing too
> (telling them they can save for it or add it to wish lists) but I
> wish they wouldn't act so darn disappointed.
>
> > And just because I can't resist, here's a photo from a couple of
> > years back of him with his little money belt, pointing out the
> > benefits of his plants to some customers at a garage sale:
>
> What a great picture! Thanks for sharing!
>
> > Maybe you could work with her on being proactive? Like walking out
> > and asking if people need help? I don't know if she would want to
> do
> > that, it's very hard for some people (kids or adults) to do.
>
> She's not an outgoing person at all. What I did when she wanted to
> try working there was to go with her and when people came up to me to
> pay for stuff, I redirected them to her. So in order for her to
> spend a day at work earning money, I had to go to work with her.
> That worked out okay on days when dh was off of work to stay with the
> younger two, but I couldn't do that on days when I had the boys.
>
> She's having a yard sale in a few weeks. She did that before and
> that worked out well for her. People seem to be okay with paying
> kids at a yard sale.
>
> Sheila
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
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http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
kayb85
--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
involved in something of their own and don't need me with them, and
those times that I have time for myself is rare and precious! (Not
that being with the kids isn't precious too!) Sometimes they'll
watch a tv show, sometimes they'll get together with a neighbor kid
and play for awhile.
Sometimes I do get away with doing something apart from them without
them being upset. Like the other day I mowed. They whined a bit
(why does the grass have to grow so fast, it seems like you're always
mowing, etc.) and started fighting with each other, and I suggested
they go get their bathing suits on and jump in the pool while I
mowed. (I could watch them while I mowed.) They fought while they
were inside getting their bathing suits on. Someone came out crying
that someone hit them for something. Then they got in the pool but
kept yelling out, "Come on mom, when are you coming in?" "As soon as
I finish mowing", I said. "It's taking too long!" "Yes, I know it's
taking awhile, I'll be done soon..."
Sheila
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> <<<<They'd crythat you
> > and tell me they hate when I don't play with them. >>>>>
>
> I hope this is an exaggeration to make a point. The suggestion was
> had been playing with them for a while and then were going to spenda while
> doing what you wanted to do.No, it's really not an exaggeration. Once in awhile they do get
>
> I know even my 4yo would completely understand that.
>
> Julie S.
involved in something of their own and don't need me with them, and
those times that I have time for myself is rare and precious! (Not
that being with the kids isn't precious too!) Sometimes they'll
watch a tv show, sometimes they'll get together with a neighbor kid
and play for awhile.
Sometimes I do get away with doing something apart from them without
them being upset. Like the other day I mowed. They whined a bit
(why does the grass have to grow so fast, it seems like you're always
mowing, etc.) and started fighting with each other, and I suggested
they go get their bathing suits on and jump in the pool while I
mowed. (I could watch them while I mowed.) They fought while they
were inside getting their bathing suits on. Someone came out crying
that someone hit them for something. Then they got in the pool but
kept yelling out, "Come on mom, when are you coming in?" "As soon as
I finish mowing", I said. "It's taking too long!" "Yes, I know it's
taking awhile, I'll be done soon..."
Sheila
Robin Clevenger
>I think it depends on how high-needs the kids are, how old they areYes, it definitely changes as kids get older. Mine are 4 and 7, and have relatively independent personalities anyways. They often go off and play with each other or on their own. Also, we're involved in a very active homeschooling group, so we've got lots of group stuff and playtime. Often when we're together with other kids, the other mom(s) and I trade off going and doing things (like errands or exercise or whatever) while the kids play. Also, my DH is a big player in our unschooling day. He'll come home and wrestle with the kids, watch a TV show, build things, or make cookies with them. Sometimes we do things as a whole family, and sometimes I take the time to go and do things on my own.
>and how many kids there are. Right now my passion is unschooling my
>kids, and if I'm going to do a good job of it, there isn't time for
>much else. I expect to have time for different, changing interests
>as they get older.
>My day today was a typical day. I had little breaks here and thereI think different people recharge in different ways, and it sounds like you've found what works best for you. For me, I recharge by being active or creative, so I use my breaks to write, exercise, garden, or do other active things.
>but needed the breaks to rest, not to go pursue another activity.
>Collapse into a chair for some computer time here and there, a shower
>while the boys watched a video, and a short nap when dh got home.
>That's how it usually goes. When I get breaks, I need to rest and
>recuperate, not dig into a new project of my own, no matter how
>appealing that project is to me!
>Tomorrow I have to make a dessert to take to a memorial day picnicWell, like I said, I think it's a matter of priorities. It sounds like your interests and your activities right now are in alignment - you're doing what you want to be doing. If you had other interests that were really calling to you, you'd probably find time to pursue them on way or another. With stuff I really want to do, I've found that I have to be creative to find the time. I can get up before the kids get up, or go to sleep a couple hours after them. I can do my stuff when DH gets home, I can ask a friend to have a trade-off playdate where we each take turns watching the kids and do things then. I can ask DH for a specific time commitment (when I wrote my 1st novel, DH committed to 2 hours a day, every day, so that I could leave the house and write - I found it impossible to keep the plot in my head and write when I was home with the kids). For exercise, I can take the kids to the gym, I can ride bikes with them, I can put my bike on my trainer in the basement and put in a movie and pedal while we watch . I've started doing some runs where my son will ride his bike while I run. As soon as my daughter is off of training wheels, I'll probably be able to run while both of them bike.
>and pack up the minivan with extra clothes and stuff we need for the
>park. And I promised Matt we could sew his chair and I have a little
>bit of grass to mow and I promised Alisha I'd help her organize her
>room, and work on her mighty beanz house some more because sometimes
>the mighty beanz are getting stuck when they go down the tubes.
>Alisha is low on shorts and I don't have any bras clean so I need to
>do some laundry. I seem to remember that Luke wanted to do something
>tomorrow (probably something to do with Christmas! lol) but I don't
>remember what.
>
>And I'm supposed to pursue my own interests when? lol
>It's not a huge priority. But I started some seeds indoors that willI agree - sometimes we can't just do everything we plan to, and it's okay to let some expectations fall. I think it's only a problem if it's something you really want to get accomplished, and I don't think that all of a parent's projects should necessarily have to be given up. There's creative ways to find the time to get to them, but sometimes it does take a fair bit of effort to do so and so you have to figure in whether the trade-off is personally worth it.
>have to be thrown away because I never had time to plant them
>outside. It had me stressed out for awhile, but then I just accepted
>that it was okay to plant seeds and not finish the project. It has
>to be. I did get a few of them planted outside (despite protests
>from the kids!)
>>But if gardening was really important to you, I wouldn'tthese
>> see anything wrong with saying "I'll make mighty beanz houses for
>> awhile, then I'm going to go garden for awhile. You're welcome to
>> bring your mighty beanz and play outside and talk with me while I
>> garden." "(okay, so I have do admit, I have no clue about what
>> mighty beanz things are...)I don't know how old your kids are, but I guess I'd assume that a kid who is old enough to bike to the store with a friend is probably old enough to understand that sometimes mom is going to do something she wants and that child can find something to fill their time for a little while. Also, I'd think about finding other playmates for my kids other than just mom. It's hard to be 100% of the entertainment, 100% of the time and have no time left to even put a few plants in the ground without the kids carrying on about it. In my life, it's a balancing act. I try to make sure that my kids have enough time with me to do things that they want to do, and I also do things I'm interested in. When I'm gardening, they're always welcome to come outside and join me, or just bring their toys outside and play on the lawn next to the garden.
>
>And if they're not happy with that? My kids wouldn't be. They'd cry
>and tell me they hate when I don't play with them.
Often, my kids are playing something imaginative, and I just join in while I'm doing whatever I need to get done. For instance, this morning while I was cooking breakfast, I was being interrogated by Ogel, who is a tiny Lego bad guy that my son plays with. The reason that Ogel was interrogating me (this gets complicated) is that my daughter has a small Seadra (Pokemon) toy who has fallen in love with a Skeletor (one of Ogel's Lego minions). Skeletor and Seadra are planning to elope and get married. This has angered Ogel, who doesn't want his skeletor marrying into the forces of good (a bit of a Romeo and Juliet story going on here). Ogel is gathering his forces to crash their wedding and kidnap Skeletor. Meanwhile, the Ojos (my son's invented force of Lego guys) are marshaling their own team to post sentries around the secret wedding site. They have a plan to drop a bridesmaid's dress onto Ogel and make him a part of the wedding. It's anyone's guess how this soap opera will turn out, but it has been going on all morning. Asa (my daughter) just ran in here with Seadra and I had to hide Seadra and her lover Skeletor in my sunglass case. Today, we're going to use the digital camera to turn it all into a picture story, make sets and costumes and such. We've done this with several of the kids' Lego stories. I like to help them out with the stuff they need assistance with, but I also like them to create as much of the stuff as they can - that way their story is really theirs, and the sets and costumes and stuff are their own creations.
>If I did it inSo you're saying that your kids can't ever play together without you playing too? Maybe you can help them find ways to get along with each other. I know when kids are really young, they don't really have the skills yet to get along. It's only been in the last year, since my daughter turned 4 that the kids could play for long periods of time. But before that, I'd play with them awhile, then go do some stuff, and when they got in a place where they couldn't solve problems themselves, I'd come hang out for awhile again. Of course, we also do tons of stuff together, but I think being able to play with each other and play with other kids is a great thing!
>spite of their complaints, they'd probably start fighting and someone
>would end up crying because they got punched or scratched or kicked
>and I'd have to stop gardening anyway to take care of the hurt child
>or break up a fight.
>Or they'd drop a mighty beanz in the grass andI find that putting a big blanket out on the grass lets the kids play with small stuff like Legos without getting them lost in the grass.
>be all upset and need me to search the grass for their mighty bean.
>I worried about that for awhile. (me and my over-analyzing again!To me, it wouldn't be that they wanted to be with me, but that they were *incapable* of playing without me that would ring some warning bells. If the kids don't know how to get along without punching and scratching and kicking if I'm not there, to me that would be a problem and I'd need to find ways to help them figure out how to get along with people other than myself.
>lol). I would hear people say that they pursue their own interests
>and get all kinds of work done while their kids are off playing by
>themselves, only asking for adult input once in awhile. Was there
>something wrong that my kids want to spend the majority of their time
>with me?
>Why does trying to never say no to a request seem to meanI guess it depends on your goals. I don't have the goal of never saying no to a request. I try to accomodate requests as best as I can. *Usually* that doesn't mean saying no. It might mean "Sure, I'll help you build a fortress as soon as I finish unloading the dishwasher - why don't you guys go get the pillows out of the closet." I'm pretty sure my kids can get started building a fortress for a couple of minutes without me if I'm in the middle of something else. Likewise, I wouldn't think to ask them to immediately stop a game if I wanted them to do something. In either case, we can wait for the other person to finish what they're doing and find a stopping point, we try to be respectful of each other's needs. We're all people in this household, and we all try to help each other do what we need or want to get accomplished. That includes their needs/wants and mine and DH's (and the cat's and dog's and the guinea pig's needs and wants too, for that matter).
>that I spend most of my day doing stuff with or for the kids when for
>other people it seems all the kids want is a sandwich here and there,
>maybe a board game for half an hour and occasional conversation?
>I'mIf it's okay for you, and if it's working in your hoursehold and you're okay with the way it's working then I guess it is. If you feel that the things you do with your kids are all the fulfillment you need, then it is definitely working okay for you. But if you feel like there are things that you want to do but can't because your kids cannot play without you there, then I would guess that it's not working, and you could maybe find some creative ways for it to work for everyone a bit better.
>getting to the point where I've just accepted that we're all
>different, our kids are all different, and the fact that mine need me
>a lot just has to be okay.
>We had done that the day before. I left the younger 2 home withWe have a tag-a-long, which is the cool bike contraption that is like a kid's tandem that attaches to the back of my bike. My youngest can ride on that while my oldest rides his own bike. It really makes family bike rides a blast. If you've never seen one, you might be interested in checking it out: http://www.whycycle.co.uk/children-tagalong.htm . This year, we're going to get a regular tandem and hook the tag-a-long to that, so I can ride with both kids if we want to.
>their dad and went bike riding on a trail with a picnic lunch (we
>drove to the trail) with Alisha and her friend and her friend's mom.
>I can't do that when I have the younger two with me though, because
>they ride slow and can't keep up with the older ones. Matt still
>needs me to walk beside him and hold onto the handle bars as he
>pedals to keep him from falling off.
>She's not an outgoing person at all. What I did when she wanted toYes, that would be hard. I wonder if there would be a way for her to look more official so that it was obvious without your presence. Some kind of outfit or name tag or something? A sign? Her sitting at a cash box?
>try working there was to go with her and when people came up to me to
>pay for stuff, I redirected them to her. So in order for her to
>spend a day at work earning money, I had to go to work with her.
>That worked out okay on days when dh was off of work to stay with the
>younger two, but I couldn't do that on days when I had the boys.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>What if the kids as for cheap plastic crap? >>>>For some reason, I actually have trouble with the higher priced stuff,
because the initial tag is so high. I had an aha moment when looking at the
"time played" on one of my son's $50 video games. He'd already, in a week,
played 24 hours. So that's just over $2 an hour. And he wasn't anywhere
near done with it. And it will get a whole new life as the younger boys get
older, it gets rediscovered, etc.
Nice value.
If you look at the cost of a "crap" toy and put it into terms of how much
joy they get, and how much time they play with it....the value increases.
But you HAVE to factor in that joy.
Kelly