Ren

"We kept the crayons, markers,
scissors, glitter and glue up high in a closed plastic container. He had a
high chair with a large tray, that was the ONLY place he was allowed to use
those items. It turned into a table and chair, so as he got older he was
allowed to sit at the table with them."

That's too bad. What you describe above is a big inhibitor to creativity. I have kept all papers, pens, crayons, glue, tape, string etc... at a reachable level for all of my children. Sure, we've had some writing on walls here and there (Sierra wrote all over her door last week...she's 7, it's HER room so why not?) but they learn very quickly where it upsets people to write and where you have free reign. Heck, crayon comes off walls easily enough.
I've had VERY little problems in the way of mess, but when they start getting out supplies, I'm right there with them most of the time. The fact that they have freedom to use the supplies when and where they choose is critical in encouraging creativity.
I suppose I value creative expression more than I value perfect walls though. There is nothing a child can do with art supplies on my walls that can't be fixed. I don't see what the big deal is.

Ren


"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

Legislative Monitor

The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers, then
become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked up
right at that moment.

He was always playing with Lego's, building blocks, lincoln logs, marble
towers and his personal favorite was the rockenbok. We invested over $3,000
in it and it would take up most of the room. Our house just couldn't
accommodate having everything accessible to him at all times. So we kept
the craft stuff, play dough, paper, etc... up and out of the way when he was
little (3-4). He's seven now and is more responsible and has complete
access to craft things.

The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them. Having
access to scissors is one of those.


~Annette M. Hall
http://ReliableAnswers.com/
The first condition of education is being able to put someone to
wholesome and meaningful work.
-- John Ruskin

___________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Ren [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
That's too bad. What you describe above is a big inhibitor to creativity. I
have kept all papers, pens, crayons, glue, tape, string etc... at a
reachable level for all of my children. Sure, we've had some writing on
walls here and there (Sierra wrote all over her door last week...she's 7,
it's HER room so why not?) but they learn very quickly where it upsets
people to write and where you have free reign. Heck, crayon comes off walls
easily enough.
I've had VERY little problems in the way of mess, but when they start
getting out supplies, I'm right there with them most of the time. The fact
that they have freedom to use the supplies when and where they choose is
critical in encouraging creativity.
I suppose I value creative expression more than I value perfect walls
though. There is nothing a child can do with art supplies on my walls that
can't be fixed. I don't see what the big deal is.

Dawn Adams

Annette writes:

The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers, then
become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked up
right at that moment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Once the caps are gone set him up wth some craft paper, a bit of water and his worn out markers. He can dip the markers in the water and get some more use out of them. Once they're really and truly done then he can take them apart and see how they're made. Broken crayons still colour. they can be melted into new rainbow coloured, chunky crayons or shaved with a knife. the shavings can be put between two pieces of wax paper, a cloth over that and then apply a hot iron to melt the shaving. You're left with a beutiful suncatcher.
Buy cheap markers and crayons for when they're young and want to experiment. My daughter is about to turn 6 and we're just getting into purchasing really good quality supplies but until now i bought those supplies understanding they would dry out or get broken. And heck, it stretches ansd tests a mom's creativity when you have to deal with these things.


The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them. Having
access to scissors is one of those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

My daughter's been using scissors since she was two. And half the time it's been my big sewing scissors when we couldn't find her little ones. I'm not sure what to think of privlidges. To me they sound like something you dangle over a kids head for good behaviour, too much like rewards. I can't fit privledges into the context of my life right now. My daughter has scissors privlidges I guess but simply because she went and used them, not because I deemed she was ready. My two year old has outlet privledges but simply because he went and learned how to plug stuff in not because I deemed him mature enough. I suppose the difference may be that I watch my kids take on new responsibilities and 'priviledges' as they themselves decide they're ready and able and you prefer to issue them as you see them conform to your idea of maturity? That sounds snarky I know and apologize but I can't think of another way to phrase it.

Dawn (of NS)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

> The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
> we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers,
then
> become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
> of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked
up
> right at that moment. ***
> The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them.
Having
> access to scissors is one of those.
========================

Wow! I'm just jaw-dropping amazed at that! I bet mixing play-doh colors was
a problem too. I never understand people who don't let kids mix the play-doh
colors. *shaking my head sadly*

My kids are 6, 5 and recently 4. Of course the crayons get broken and the
caps get left off the markers. I gently remind them that the markers dry out
and aren't useful anymore when I throw them away, but we get new ones
periodically. Crayons cost all of $3 to replace, maybe $5 for the really big
set, I don't remember. And it's always so much fun to get a new set!
Play-doh, I pick up on sale for $1 a 4 pack, and there's nothing like soft,
new play-doh. I can't imagine getting upset because the crayons are getting
broken!

We also buy quality art supplies, which are just as accessible as the
crayola stuff. We have a great art supply store in Georgetown that I just
*love* to walk through. We have oil pastels, chalk pastels, 24 color
watercolor set, sculpey clay, tempera paints, origami paper, tissue paper,
etc. I have asked them to be a bit more careful with the watercolors by
wiping their brush on a paper towel to keep the colors true, but that's
mostly because I was painting with them too. They have several other
watercolor sets when they want to mix the colors together. We also had fun
figuring out how to mix the colors purposely on the plastic lid.

Scissors, too, are stored right along with the art supplies and have been
for at least 2 years here, probably more. There have been a couple of times
when my youngest lost privileges for a little while until he was ready to
try again (which he determined, not me)--like the time he cut his sister's
hair or his shirt. We just talked about things that were appropriate for
cutting and I told him to let me know when he was ready to try again. Those
are the only scissor incidents I can think of. We also had a brief period a
couple of years ago when the crayons got put up for a little while only to
be brought down when I was nearby because he drew on the walls, the
furniture, the carpet, the washing machine, the keyboard and the computer
monitor--not all at once but in a series of attacks. *g* He helped me clean
up the slippery and easy to wipe surfaces. The keyboard never came clean; we
just eventually inherited a new one. And the monitor forever had wax
remnants in a ghost pattern of the original artwork. But he soon got over
that as well. (They used to have an art table in the laundry room just off
the family room before I moved everything upstairs to the kitchen where they
had far more room to spread out, which may have had something to do with it,
too.)

I just think this is part of having kids, you know? Gosh, kids need to be
kids. They need room to explore and test their boundaries, and they need a
gentle, loving adult to help them understand what kinds of things work and
what don't, which includes replacing broken crayons and dried out markers,
cleaning up lots of messes and encouraging them to explore in as many
appropriate ways as possible.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

Fetteroll

on 5/24/04 8:07 PM, Legislative Monitor at LegWatch@...
wrote:

> The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
> we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers, then
> become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
> of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked up
> right at that moment.

I think the problem is in confusing *helping* a child keep his things
useable with *making* a child keep them useable or *controling* a child to
prevent him from making his things unuseable.

If I had a child who couldn't put the caps on the markers or might scatter
them everywhere, I might keep markers on top of the refrigerator too. But it
would be because I would assume my child wanted to take care of things but
just couldn't understand how yet.

The actions might look the same, but the motivations and reactions would be
very different if I was always thinking of ways to make art fun for her (eg,
have markers that weren't dried out) rather than thinking in ways to protect
the markers and protect the house.

There might be times she wanted to do something that I didn't have time to
help with at the moment, but my answer shouldn't be no. It should be let's
figure out how to make this work.

> Our house just couldn't
> accommodate having everything accessible to him at all times.

Nor can most of our homes. And yet we find ways to put the child first *and*
keep things useable *and* not turn it into an issue of control over the
child.

> The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible.

The point is not to expect them to be more responsible than they are capable
of. Do for them what they'd want to do but can't while making the world as
accessible as they want and need.

> We like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them.

And I like to let my daughter know that I trust her to do what's right
within her capacity to do so, not set up the atmosphere so she feels she
needs to prove to me she can be trusted.

Joyce

kayb85

We've got all that stuff too. LOTS of legos and Rokenbok and Thomas
the tank engine and playmobil. Like 6 different sets of domino
rally. Micro machine cars and sets. Quite frankly, our house is
always a mess 'cause this stuff is always out! But they would lose
so much creativity and fun and learning if they didn't have access to
their stuff all the time. My boys are 6 and 4 and have always had
access to all the craft stuff.

When stores have back to school sales, crayola markers usually go on
sale for under a dollar. You can stock up on a lot of markers at
that price, and then if a marker gets dried out, you've got another
to replace it. Also, a tip we learned at the crayola factory is that
you can revive a marker one time by soaking it in warm water for a
little while. I think 30 seconds.

We've never had much of a problem with broken crayons, even when
they're left out. And we bought the crayola crayon maker, which is a
LOT of fun. We collect crayons that do get broken and make new
crayons out of them.

I do ask them to play with the play doh in the kitchen and
diningroom, which are the non-carpeted rooms, and I always make sure
I sweep the floors really well when they're done playing because I
don't want play doh to get ground into the carpet. But if it ever
would get ground into the carpet...I'd rather them have constant
access to play doh than have great carpet.

Once Matt drew a picture on the wall with a crayola marker. A big
purple smiley face. I had planned on buying a frame at the store to
put on top of it, and write his name and the date he did it right
beside it, but I didn't get around to doing it right away and the
marker started fading on its own after awhile. I was sad that it
faded off the wall like that, because I thought the frame idea would
have been cute. :)

Btw, those magic erasers that are out are GREAT at getting marker,
crayons, etc. off of things. They're great at getting a lot of
stuff clean, like those little grooves in the refrigerator. They do
take stain off though, so I don't recommend using them on things that
have a stained finish.

Sheila


--- In [email protected], "Legislative Monitor"
<LegWatch@r...> wrote:
> The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem
was that
> we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the
markers, then
> become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins
with tons
> of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't
picked up
> right at that moment.
>
> He was always playing with Lego's, building blocks, lincoln logs,
marble
> towers and his personal favorite was the rockenbok. We invested
over $3,000
> in it and it would take up most of the room. Our house just
couldn't
> accommodate having everything accessible to him at all times. So
we kept
> the craft stuff, play dough, paper, etc... up and out of the way
when he was
> little (3-4). He's seven now and is more responsible and has
complete
> access to craft things.
>
> The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We
like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle
them. Having
> access to scissors is one of those.
>
>
> ~Annette M. Hall
> http://ReliableAnswers.com/
> The first condition of education is being able to put someone to
> wholesome and meaningful work.
> -- John Ruskin
>
> ___________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ren [mailto:starsuncloud@n...]
> That's too bad. What you describe above is a big inhibitor to
creativity. I
> have kept all papers, pens, crayons, glue, tape, string etc... at a
> reachable level for all of my children. Sure, we've had some
writing on
> walls here and there (Sierra wrote all over her door last
week...she's 7,
> it's HER room so why not?) but they learn very quickly where it
upsets
> people to write and where you have free reign. Heck, crayon comes
off walls
> easily enough.
> I've had VERY little problems in the way of mess, but when they
start
> getting out supplies, I'm right there with them most of the time.
The fact
> that they have freedom to use the supplies when and where they
choose is
> critical in encouraging creativity.
> I suppose I value creative expression more than I value perfect
walls
> though. There is nothing a child can do with art supplies on my
walls that
> can't be fixed. I don't see what the big deal is.

Legislative Monitor

LOL This reminds me when my son was learning to write his letters. He was
about three and wrote a great big "A" on the back of the couch in magic
marker. I didn't even try to clean it. I purposely didn't buy new
furniture because I knew I would just get upset when it got ruined.

My house is definitely lived in but I do like things to be neat and orderly.
I don't like to clean and my husband doesn't have time so we have taught our
son from the beginning to pick up after himself. I have health problems and
when he was born I wasn't able to walk, so I wanted him to be independent.
It drives my mother crazy. She thinks he is too independent.

He is a big help to me when I need him to be. The other issue with crayons
and things on the floor is the danger of me falling. Since my back surgery
I'm not too steady on my feet and a fall could land me permanently disabled.

It would be nice to consider only his creativity but we all must live
together in confined quarters so sacrifices must be made.

I'm tired of this subject now. I had no idea my comments would illicit such
controversal responses. I'm going back to my corner now.


~Annette M. Hall
http://ReliableAnswers.com/
Whoever cares to learn will always find a teacher.

___________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: kayb85 [mailto:sheran@...]
Once Matt drew a picture on the wall with a crayola marker. A big
purple smiley face. I had planned on buying a frame at the store to
put on top of it, and write his name and the date he did it right
beside it, but I didn't get around to doing it right away and the
marker started fading on its own after awhile. I was sad that it
faded off the wall like that, because I thought the frame idea would
have been cute. :)

J. Stauffer

<<<<<<We like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them. >>>>>>

Really. What does your son like?

In our house, I do the cooking and dh does the cleaning. Been that way
since we met about 20 years ago. Dh is a neat freak, constantly cleaning
and wiping and puting away as he does things.

I tend to enjoy the moment. I don't clean up anything as I go, leaving that
to the end. So with our meal prep arrangements, dh gets left with a pretty
heft mess. Sometimes I pitch in, sometimes I do it for him, sometimes I go
take a nap.

I guess he could relieve me of the priviledge of cooking until I learned
responsibility (i.e., do it his way) but he prefers to treat me as a fully
functioning human who simply organized their life differently from him.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Legislative Monitor" <LegWatch@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] wallpaper peelers


> The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
> we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers,
then
> become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
> of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked
up
> right at that moment.
>
> He was always playing with Lego's, building blocks, lincoln logs, marble
> towers and his personal favorite was the rockenbok. We invested over
$3,000
> in it and it would take up most of the room. Our house just couldn't
> accommodate having everything accessible to him at all times. So we kept
> the craft stuff, play dough, paper, etc... up and out of the way when he
was
> little (3-4). He's seven now and is more responsible and has complete
> access to craft things.
>
> The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them.
Having
> access to scissors is one of those.
>
>
> ~Annette M. Hall
> http://ReliableAnswers.com/
> The first condition of education is being able to put someone to
> wholesome and meaningful work.
> -- John Ruskin
>
> ___________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ren [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
> That's too bad. What you describe above is a big inhibitor to creativity.
I
> have kept all papers, pens, crayons, glue, tape, string etc... at a
> reachable level for all of my children. Sure, we've had some writing on
> walls here and there (Sierra wrote all over her door last week...she's 7,
> it's HER room so why not?) but they learn very quickly where it upsets
> people to write and where you have free reign. Heck, crayon comes off
walls
> easily enough.
> I've had VERY little problems in the way of mess, but when they start
> getting out supplies, I'm right there with them most of the time. The fact
> that they have freedom to use the supplies when and where they choose is
> critical in encouraging creativity.
> I suppose I value creative expression more than I value perfect walls
> though. There is nothing a child can do with art supplies on my walls that
> can't be fixed. I don't see what the big deal is.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], "Danielle Conger"
<danielle.conger@c...> wrote:
> We also buy quality art supplies, which are just as accessible as
the
> crayola stuff. We have a great art supply store in Georgetown that
I just
> *love* to walk through. We have oil pastels, chalk pastels, 24 color
> watercolor set, sculpey clay, tempera paints, origami paper, tissue
paper,
> etc.

Don't you just love art supply stores? That was the best part about
being an art student was going into the store to buy stuff.

>I have asked them to be a bit more careful with the watercolors by
> wiping their brush on a paper towel to keep the colors true,

I like to get the watercolors that come in the little tubes. Then you
can put blobs onto a plastic palette and they can mix them, and I can
have my blobs on another palette where they don't get mixed if I
don't want them to.

but that's
> mostly because I was painting with them too. They have several other
> watercolor sets when they want to mix the colors together. We also
had fun
> figuring out how to mix the colors purposely on the plastic lid.
>
> Scissors, too, are stored right along with the art supplies and
have been
> for at least 2 years here, probably more.

I'm with you. They make such nice easy-to-use blunt child scissors
now, my kids have always had access to them (they're 4.5 and 7.5
now). Also, my sharp kitchen scissors are always on the holder on the
counter. When the kids have been tall enough to reach them, they have
always used them responsibly, though I had to show them how to carry
them safely. That reminds me of when "Dances With Wolves" came out, a
guy I knew at work had a shirt that said "Runs With Scissors" :-)

>We also had a brief period a
> couple of years ago when the crayons got put up for a little while
only to
> be brought down when I was nearby because he drew on the walls, the
> furniture, the carpet, the washing machine, the keyboard and the
computer
> monitor

Strangely enough, my kids have never used crayons on walls or
anything else. The only time my son drew all over everything, was
when he discovered a Sharpie =:-O and decorated my computer,
keyboard, his sheets, and the carpet. The carpet was the only thing
that really was a problem since we were about to sell our house.
Since then, the Sharpies have been kept in the Secret Sharpie Place.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
> Once Matt drew a picture on the wall with a crayola marker. A big
> purple smiley face. I had planned on buying a frame at the store
to
> put on top of it, and write his name and the date he did it right
> beside it, but I didn't get around to doing it right away and the
> marker started fading on its own after awhile. I was sad that it
> faded off the wall like that, because I thought the frame idea
would
> have been cute. :)

That reminds me of a song by David Wilcox, one of my favorite artists
(if you ever get the chance to see him live, DO!). His lyrics are
always so good. This song is called "Leave It Like It Is", here's the
lyrics:

Now when the paint jar tipped off of the table
You watched as it started to fall.
Glass popped, shattered and splattered.
The paint spray hit the wall.

Bright blue glossy enamel,
Across the kitchen floor.
You said "Good God, look at that pattern,
I've never seen that before."

Leave it like it is.
Never mind the turpentine.
Just leave it like it is,
It's fine.

When the paint dried you gave it a title
You called it Kitchen Blue.
A white frame painted around it,
And gallery lighting too.

Rich folks come over to dinner
They all want one of their own.
They say "How much?" " Who is the artist?"
And "My, what a beautiful home."

Leave it like it is.
Never mind the turpentine.
Just leave it like it is,
It's fine.

Most folks suffer in sorrow,
Thinking they're just no good.
They don't match the magazine model,
As close as they think they should.

They live just like the paint-by-numbers
The teacher would be impressed.
A lifetime of follow the lines,
So they're just like all of the rest.

Leave it like it is.
Never mind the turpentine.
Just leave it like it is,
It's fine.


Blue Skies,
-Robin-

[email protected]

Hmmmm, my boys are 2 1/2 and 5 1/2 (that half is really important to both of them) and they are responsible. They both love to paint, color, stamp, cut and glue. We have asked them to do the really messy stuff in the kitchen, where I can clean up the mess easier. (We have very light colored carpet in most of the house) They don't have a problem with this, the kitchen is fine with them.

They have access to all the art and crafty stuff they want, even scissors. Avery(2) has me do most of his cutting, because it's hard for him to use the texured ones. Jaiden will spend hours cutting stuff up and gluing it to paper. I can't imagine limiting his access to them.

Why do you think they can't be responsible?

~Rebecca


> The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
> have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them. Having
> access to scissors is one of those.

Priscilla Martinez

>>Buy cheap markers and crayons for when they're young >>and want to experiment.

yup! i love the dollar store for this exact reason!

peace, priscilla




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Ooohhhh! I love it when the crayons get broken! Sometimes I break them. You can color with the sides then too, not just the points and you have different sizes.

I also think that broken crayons are easier for little hand to use. Avery(2) likes to break them into 3-4 pieces per crayon and Jaiden, when he still breakes them, just breaks them in half.

We also save all of our broken crayons and melt them between wax paper. It's soooo pretty!

~Rebecca


<<<the crayons would be broken, etc...>>>

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/04 11:07:51 AM, LegWatch@... writes:

<< I'm tired of this subject now. I had no idea my comments would illicit
such

controversal responses. I'm going back to my corner now. >>

Having no idea is evidence of not having read the list long enough before
posting.

Tiring of defending one's own ideas reminds me of this list policy:

"4. If you have a belief or practice that you don't want held up to public
examination, don't post it to the list. "

And there were discrepancies and contradictions in the accounts anyway.

It's a big, busy list. Please, to everyone, post carefully and responsibly.

Thanks,

Sandra

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers"
<tri_mom@c...> wrote:
> Strangely enough, my kids have never used crayons on walls or
> anything else. The only time my son drew all over everything, was
> when he discovered a Sharpie =:-O and decorated my computer,
> keyboard, his sheets, and the carpet. The carpet was the only thing
> that really was a problem since we were about to sell our house.
> Since then, the Sharpies have been kept in the Secret Sharpie Place.

My ds only writes on the wall with the black crayon. And only when
he's upset that I've left the room--like for 3 minutes to get the
laundry. The Mr. Clean Magic Eraser is amazing for getting crayon
off, but since he doesn't seem to miss having the black crayon, it
seems to have worked out to put it away for a bit.

When he was 1 y o, we taught him how to use the remote control, which
shocked some of our friends and family. My dd, now almost 1.5, has to
be kept away from the remotes because she chews on them and has
already ruined 2!

My son talks almost constantly, so except for the black crayons, I
usually know if/when he's doing something destructive. Caroline is
sooo quiet about it, though. I've learned that if she's playing
quietly and I can't see her hands and mouth, I need to run over and
see what she's doing. Lately it's been bugs and worms. We were all
outside and I noticed she was sitting still and with her back to
me...and there in her hand was the dead cicada with a big ant on it,
heading toward her mouth.

I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??

--aj, thankful that there are only a few cicadas in the back
yard...compared to dozens in the front yard...and hundreds next door

Jennifer

>I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
>you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??

That's a hard one! I'm wondering if maybe everyone's wallpaper
answers would apply here, too? Supervise, discuss, divert.

I mean, she'll probably ingest a few, I'm sure. Touching, I'd say,
is no big deal at all. Squishing, I don't know. I hate to see my
kids squash bugs unless they are in the bedrooms and we can't catch
them, then sadly, I don't care much. I kinda figure though, that
there's not a whole lot you are going to be able to do about
squashing bugs outside.

As far as eating them, maybe she'll eat a few and decide they don't
taste very good at all and decide not to at anymore. Maybe she'll
only eat one of each kind until she finds a favorite. HA! Maybe one
will bite her lip and she won't touch or eat them anymore...though
she might want to squish them all then if a pang of revenge strikes!
lol

It would gross me OUT if one of my kids ate a bug. Gag! But,
people all over the world do it so I wouldn't exactly worry about it
in a safety way, I guess. I'm going to have to check that out...how
safe it is to eat bugs. The only thing I can think of is to invest
in candy necklaces and give her one every time she heads out the
door. Or some kind of food she can't resist...grape necklaces,
fruit kabobs, something!

Maybe get her an ant farm she can observe inside?

I can see where that would make a person crazy and ill, having a
child eat and squash bugs all the time. Maybe someone else will
have a better idea.

Jen

Jennifer

> I can see where that would make a person crazy and ill, having a
> child eat and squash bugs all the time. >

Hmmm, sounded like I was suggesting she actually does this all the
time. Just meant that in general.

Clarifying,
Jen

Dawn Adams

AJ writes:
I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I get over it. :) Seriously, my daughter loves maggots and other things that would have had me in a faint 5 years ago. Now, through her excitement, I quite like them too. I would never touch a dead thing either...until my daughter found a dead snake and was longing to touch it but insisted I do it first, so I did. I'm using my daughters interest to get over my hangups. May not be what you'd like to try though. :)

Dawn (in NS)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark and Julie

> >I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do you
deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??>>

Try not to react! Take the bug, tell her its name and show her all the
interesting things about it--the pretty wings or shiny shell....And then
tell her gently but firmly that bugs need to be cooked before they are
eaten. <g>

My son has eaten a couple of insects when he was in that crawling/learning
to walk stage. He's still alive...and not interested in eating them but he
is fascinated by them.

Julie

kayb85

> I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
> you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??


If you want to take a trip to Pennsylvania in September, you could go
to Penn State's insect fair. She'd get to touch and eat bugs there.
(Yes, they have chocolate covered crickets and stir-fried mealworms
at the food stand).

http://entscied.cas.psu.edu/Fair.html

Sheila

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/2004 4:48:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Wishbone@... writes:
>>AJ writes:
I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??<<
I thought I saw something on AOL the other day on ways to cook/eat
Cicadas...something about dipping them in chocolate, frying them, etc......wish I would
have saved it!

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Juli Kearns

Take care on the cicadas. If one has allergies to bugs/food, consuming
them can cause an allergic reaction. I read about a person recently who
had such an allergic reaction and it occurred to me that if one had
shellfish allergies...and I just looked it up on the internet and he did
have a history of allergic reaction to shellfish. Allergies to nuts may
also indicate a potential problem. There's now quite a few articles coming
up on it Googling.

Juli

At 08:37 PM 5/25/2004, you wrote:
>In a message dated 5/25/2004 4:48:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>Wishbone@... writes:
> >>AJ writes:
> I want to let her explore, but I'm really not a bug person. How do
> you deal with kids who want to touch, eat, squish, etc. bugs??<<
>I thought I saw something on AOL the other day on ways to cook/eat
>Cicadas...something about dipping them in chocolate, frying them,
>etc......wish I would
>have saved it!
>
>Nancy B.

Penn Acres

This reminds me of something I said to our librarian a year or two ago.
"The only problem with unschooling is -You have to pretend to like Bugs !!"
I'm not crazy about spiders up close. The rest are ok. Dont want them on me but will handle beetles and worms . I actually like worms, toads and snakes. My main focus was wanting to let the girls develop an interest if they wished without my phobias attached.
That said-when Kara was three she got so spider-phobic her twin sister could control All the toys and the room by casually saying-I just saw a spider walk under that Barbie..LOL Worked for about a year. We have gotten lots of bug books and videos from the library. I bought a couple of really neat books-one is Bugs of BC or something like it and another couple on butterflys.
What made them most comfortable with them was helping put some in bug jars and the Magic School bus bug related videos. and just growing a little older.
Their latest thing is to get plastic jars from the cupboard and put over any spider they see in their room. On the weekend they had five jars around their bedroom/playroom. Stephanie said they dont like the squishy stuff -they like it if they dry up when they die.
Early on I noticed their cousin would stamp on everthing in sight. I usually say bugs outside (except mosquitoes) live there-we dont bother them-except when we need worms for fishing (I know -double standards LOL) . Bugs inside don't belong here so tough luck.WE very often call them to see an interesting moth-spider-bug-and they have magnifying glasses (good ones) and bug carriers if they want to collect some and let them go later.
Their Mother used to pick up spiders when she was crawling-before she learned to walk and crawl over to me with a big smile and a closed hand and Too often it was a big live spider or bug. she never was hesitant about them.
Sure wish we had fireflys here -they were such a good part of my summers in northern Ontario.
grace
in the BC Rockies where it is snowing again way up high on the peaks and drizzling down here.
And the girls and Allan are watching the new Lord of the Rings DVD.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:04:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
danielle.conger@... writes:

> Wow! I'm just jaw-dropping amazed at that! I bet mixing play-doh colors was
> a problem too.

Oh, MAN! I had big trouble with that one!! I had to bite my tongue and sit on
my HANDS to keep from sorting the playdoh out into proper color containers!
It drove me NUTS to watch him smash all those colors into one big, brown blob!
LOL But, I managed! And when he was younger, he was thrilled to play with the
brown blob-divided up into separate containers with different color lids,
because there was too much brown for ONE container! LOL But, as he's gotten older
and gotten more playdoh as gifts, he is starting to put his colors together
more gently so that he can separate them when he's done and put them back in the
color-coordinated containers. And NOW, I'm kinda sad that the care-free,
brown blob boy is growing up! ;~D But I'm so very glad that I kept my
"sorting/catagorising" nature to myself and let him play the way HE wanted to-he still
loves playdoh! :~)

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/2004 11:09:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Wishbone@... writes:

> Broken crayons still colour. they can be melted into new rainbow coloured,
> chunky crayons or shaved with a knife. the shavings can be put between two
> pieces of wax paper, a cloth over that and then apply a hot iron to melt the
> shaving. You're left with a beutiful suncatcher.
>

Or place-mat or if you punch holes all around 2 of them with a hole punch,
put newspaper in-between, and use yarn to "sew" them together, you have a
"sit-upon" to take outside in damp weather to sit on the ground. Or as I used it
for, a sled! LOL

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<The problem wasn't the walls being my major concern. The problem was that
we had tons of the stuff, and the caps would get left off the markers, then
become useless, the crayons would be broken, etc... He had bins with tons
of things to be creative that wouldn't get damaged if they weren't picked up
right at that moment.

He was always playing with Lego's, building blocks, lincoln logs, marble
towers and his personal favorite was the rockenbok. We invested over $3,000
in it and it would take up most of the room. Our house just couldn't
accommodate having everything accessible to him at all times. So we kept
the craft stuff, play dough, paper, etc... up and out of the way when he was
little (3-4). He's seven now and is more responsible and has complete
access to craft things.

The point is you can't expect little ones to be responsible. We like to
have our son gain privileges as he is mature enough to handle them. Having
access to scissors is one of those.>>

Jayn is 4.5. She has had her own scissors for at least 2 years. She has
always had all her art stuff, including Sharpies, available to her. There
have been stains at times - but they have been learning moments for me about
what she understood. Now she knows where my sewing scissors are, as well as
the kitchen scissors, if she has something to cut that her scissors don't
handle. She is extremely careful. Wow, she has even learnt at last that she
should replace lids so that her markers, which I buy in bulk, don't dry out.

Many of us live in tiny places - see the archives for huge numbers of
creative storage ideas once the priority is facilitating the child's diverse
interests.

How mature do you have to be before your husband allows you to gain
privileges?

You are keeping the expensive stuff out and worrying about crayons (a couple
of bucks for like 64) being broken? I think I'm missing the unschooling
principles in your posts, as well as the common sense.

Everything you post will be up for sometimes startlingly rigorous discussion
and dissection. Sometimes I find it actually scary to post, because of what
could happen. But it will help you expand your thinking. Everything is
critiqued because newbies and people considering unschooling, as well as
others further along the journey, are more helped by challenges to old ways
of thinking and acting and writing about learning and parenting, than any
amount of "we all do things our own way, and that's fine" drivel.

Robyn L. Coburn


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/2004 9:07:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
>>If you want to take a trip to Pennsylvania in September, you could go
to Penn State's insect fair.<<
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

Sheila - have you been to this? Would it be worth a 3 or 4 hour drive? We
live in WV.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

No, I haven't been to it, but I've heard through homeschool email
lists that it's a lot of fun.
Sheila


> Sheila - have you been to this? Would it be worth a 3 or 4 hour
drive? We
> live in WV.
>
> Nancy B.

Mark and Rheta Wallingford

My dh recently built a "bug barn" with wood and screening to house the
two Eastern Tent Caterpillars my daughter wanted to watch and feed. She
came screaming into the bathroom yesterday yelling "Crystal (the name
she gave to one of the caterpillars :-)) is making her cocoon!!" I ran
into the kitchen to look and, sure enough, she had a fine web of cocoon
going. She or he (not sure if it's possible to tell - anyone else
know?) had attached to the top of the screen. Pretty cool. The other
caterpillar "ran" around the bug barn for a couple of hours before that
one (Princess Leana don't you know) began her(?) cocoon as well. We
found out that it takes 3 weeks before they turn into moths. We also
found out how they do it, which is gross and cool at the same time.
Kind of like how a group of cells knows how to form into a liver or a
heart, same thing. The cells are inside the caterpillar which is just a
shell. It basically turns into a ball of mush as the cells start to
clump together and reform themselves. Too cool.

Anyway, you might consider this kind of box so your child can put a bug
in it and safely observe it. My dd2 managed to "pet" hers to death. So
we had to hold it for her and let her touch it "easy". I don't want to
squelch her enthusiasm, but I do want her to learn how to handle
something that is fragile (like bugs and animals, etc.) without killing
it.

I don't like spiders. Period. But during last summer a number of them
got between the screen and the window in the kitchen. We just let them
stay - to the horror of most everyone that came to our house. But we
could tap the glass and that would shake their web so they would come
flying out of nowhere. It was an easy way for me to deal with the whole
spider issue and none of us actually wanted to touch it anyway LOL We
got to see it eat and interact with other spiders, we didn't actually
see her lay her eggs but we saw the egg sacs and saw them hatch. Plus,
with them being right against the glass you could take a magnifying
glass and get right up close. Can't remember what kind they were but
they were big. They left in the fall but it was cool to watch - course
we kept those windows closed last year <g>

Rheta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<I don't like spiders. Period. But during last summer a number of them
got between the screen and the window in the kitchen. We just let them
stay - to the horror of most everyone that came to our house. But we
could tap the glass and that would shake their web so they would come
flying out of nowhere. It was an easy way for me to deal with the whole
spider issue and none of us actually wanted to touch it anyway LOL We
got to see it eat and interact with other spiders, we didn't actually
see her lay her eggs but we saw the egg sacs and saw them hatch. Plus,
with them being right against the glass you could take a magnifying
glass and get right up close. Can't remember what kind they were but
they were big. They left in the fall but it was cool to watch - course
we kept those windows closed last year <g>>>

I think this sounds fascinating. I think that a thick layer of glass would
probably be enough for me to get over my not tooooo bad shudders. I grew up
in Sydney, Australia home to the most venomous spider - the Sydney
Funnelweb, so I was always wary of large ones, just in case. They can bite
through a sock btw.

Jayn is terrified to the point of instant scream and run of all flying
insects, even tiny gnats or fruit flies. I don't know why. But she does seem
interested in caterpillars and worms. I suspect that seeing her favorite
caterpillar become one of the loathed fliers would upset her. I also expect
that this will change in time.

Robyn L. Coburn


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004